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MHR Chalk Talk -- Week 5 - Tampa Bay at Denver

 YOUR SOURCE FOR THE VERY BEST

IN DENVER BRONCO PRE-GAME ANALYSIS

MILEHIGHREPORT.COM

bucsATbroncos

This is going to be one heck of a ride.  We've gotten past some good teams (SD and NO), beaten down the Raiders, and got shocked by the Chiefs.  Going into this TB game, I have some things I'm confident about, and frankly, some things I'm concerned about.  TB is a 3-1 team just like we are, but with a glaring difference.  They have some balance.

TB is perhaps a top ten team right now in my opinion, and this game could be a solid measuring stick for just how good we are.  We only lead SD by one game in our playoff race, so it's a very significant game.

Can our young guys bounce back from a loss like pros?  Can our secondary attack an INT prone Griese?  What can we exploit, and what should we avoid?

You've come to the right place.  MHR has you covered.

Read on...

Star-divide

Let's take an overview of the TB team.  They are a solid team, and should be a problem for anyone.

They run the Tampa-2 system on defense, but do so with any drop off in stopping the run (just ask the zone block run system Green Bay Packers, who ran into a brick wall).

They have one of the best defensive coordinators that money can buy.  They have a star studded defensive line, and linebackers that most teams would kill for.  The system makes the DBs look good too.

On offense things are a little shaky, but not bad.  The WRs have bobbled a few balls, but they catch enough to win games.  Griese may be a joke in Denver, but aside from a few INTs, he's been slinging the passes pretty well for Gruden.  Well enough to win the three games he's started.

TB's lone loss was with another QB at the helm, and against a NO team that was healthier than when we played them almost to a draw.  This is not a good game to take for granted.

The Tampa Bay Defense

Here's what you need to know: These guys are good.

Three of the front four are names many fans will recognize (Carter, Hovan, and Gaines Adams).  Brooks, Rudd, and Cato June make up the linebacking corps.  Buchannan and Barber at CB are both names you'll recognize too.

The names you may not notice are Jackson and Phillips at safety, but they are very solid.  Piscetteli (a safety coverage specialist) is likely out with an injury.

GB runs a zone block running scheme that is pretty similar to our own (not as much one cut running), and TB completely shut them down.  TB is also a team that is good at forcing INTs, and pressuring the QB.  This is a very capable defense with few weaknesses.

Aaron Rodgers of GB was flying high until he ran into TB.  TB's physical team hounder Rodgers, intercepted him, then busted his shoulder.  Yikes!  GB was a team that knows how to run the ball, and expects to be over 100 yards a game.  They didn't come close.

What does Denver do to answer the defense that is named for the team we are up against?

When playing against the Cover 2 systems, teams try two approaches.  One is to run the ball, but TB has a front seven that shuts down runs (no safeties in the box for these guys!)

The other approach is classic.  The weakness in the pass defense of cover two systems is in the "seams", the magical area between the OLBs and the CBs.  This means short passes, but high completion percentages (which is exactly what the cover-2 bend don't break systems want).  This is typically exploited with the TE positions, and the good news for Denver is that we have three TEs that know how to catch the ball.

Another advantage for Denver is Marshall.  While TB's CBs are good at what they do, they may have a rough time bringing down a physical receiver like Marshall.  WIth Cutler's quick releases, completions shouldn't be a problem.

I see three potentials for major problems with our pass game.

  1. Denver has been letting Cutler drop back to pass.  This is great for Culter, and great for our passing game.  But the time lost in the drop allows the zone CBs to react and position for INTs.
  2. Against the type of pass defense we'll see on Sunday, Jay can't telegraph his WRs like he is prone to do.  He can get punished if he focuses on his target too early in the play.
  3. Denver's offensive line has been like the US Secret Service in the marvelous way they've protected Jay.  But the TB front seven is a group of dedicated assasins unlike the first four teams we've played.  This is the match-up to watch in my opinion.

Denver can mitigate the first issue by using more misdirection.  Gruden is no slouch, and has seen Denver's misdirections as a coach for oakland (though his record against Shanny is atrocious).  Somehow, I don't expect Bates to go this route much.  Bates seems sold on the new "spread offense" look that Denver has been sporting, and I am guessing that he challenges the TB secondary head on.

The second issue is up to Jay.  I have little doubt that he is working on looking off his passes, but we'll see how it goes.

The third issue is my favorite.  If Denver can protect Jay from the TB rush, they should be able to protect Jay all season.

The best news?  Despite the talent on the TB team, they are ranked 21st in pass defense.  This is due in part to having leads in games, and being able to hut down runs though.  Drew Brees carved up the TB defense, and I think Cutler can too.

The Tampa Bay Offense 

Things are tricky to predict here.  Denver's defense has its defenders and its detractors.  Some will point to the KC game, the stops made by the defense, and the turnovers that made life rough for the defense.  Others like to point to the sheer number of yards and points that this team gives up game after game.  There's enough truth to go around.

Let's start with a premise.  The Denver CBs are better than the TB receivers.  Let's go to another premise.  Griese is an interception waiting to happen.  Still with me?  Well, here's where it gets muddled...

Does anyone expect Denver to finally get it's pass rush going in this game?  Will we continue to rush (only) three guys?  Will we continue to put a safety in the box to stop the run, and will we play our cover cornerbacks in zones well off of the receivers (instead of tight man coverage)?

Here's another concern.  TB RB Graham has the eighth most yards rushing in the NFL with 334 yards (5.9 per carry).

TB should challenge the Denver run defense.  If they can establish the run, they can wear down Denver, take the crowd out of the game with long drives, and keep Cutler off of the field.  A lot of teams might throw the ball on Denver's "bend don't AND break" defense, but Griese has been throwing three INTs a game lately, and I don't think he should try the deep passes that other QB's try.

Folks who read Chalk Talk know my bias.  Denver needs to drop back the SS to cover the deep zone (this is NOT cover two - see the accurate description here), play the CBs in man coverage, and force the front seven to play their own roles.

I don't know if Denver will have fixed the pass rush in practices or not.  A pass rush on Griese will lead to INTs.  Lack of a pass rush will allow Griese to play pretty well (in my opinion).  I doubt Denver let's the strong safety fall back though.  Pray to God that Slowik at least lets the CBs cover the WRs tight.

The duel between the Denver offense and the TB defense should be a great battle of minds and brawn.  The battle of the TB offense against the Denver defense will all hinge on how Denver approaches this game.  If they play the way they've been playing, I expect the game to be close.  If Denver can step up the defense, I think Denver can win this game comfortably.

Position Match-ups

QB - DEN

RB - Even (and here's why.  While E. Graham has great numbers in yards, Denver's RBs have more TDs and better YPCs.  Denver doesn't run the ball too much, but if they did, they might have great yards too)

TE - DEN

WR - DEN  (Marshall and Royal both in the top ten of WRs.  Marshall is #1, despite missing the first week).

OL - DEN

DL - TB

LB - TB

CB - DEN

SAF - TB

Coaching - DEN (at head coach.  I like TB's unit coaches better than ours, including the great Monte Kiffen).

STs - TB

Summary

I expect Denver to carve up the TB secondary (just as Drew Brees did).  Denver can go the easy route and use 2 TE sets and hit the seams on boths sides, or use the TEs for extra protection against a strong TB front 7.  Graham will be a key defender in this game, whether he is used to receive or not.

If Denver runs the ball, then TB will be the real test.  Remember, they shut down a good zone block team with GB last week.  Pittman's short yardage runs will be much more difficult.  If Denver can run against TB, they'll run well all season.

Griese and his receiving crew do enough to win games, but they do it ugly.  Denver's big chance to rack up turnovers is in this game.

Denver's other test is E. Graham and the TB run game.  A real defense can stop him, and Denver needs to answer the challenge.

Keys to the Game

Denver

  1. Pressure Griese.  Only good things happen when Griese is under pressure.
  2. Stop the run.  We know teams can throw on us.  Make sure they can't run.
  3. Play with a lead.  If Griese has to pass the ball enough times, something good will come of it.

TB

  1. Limit turnovers.  I think I read somewhere that TB under Gruden hasn't lost a game when they've had no turnovers.
  2. Get to Culter.  He's only been sacked once (plus a technical sack).  It's the best way to stop the Denver air show.  Make the front 7 of TB earn their money and reputation and have them go after Cutler from the start.
  3. Win the field position war.  Denver has a suspect STs coverage unit for kicks and punts.  Keep Denver on the Denver side of the field to increase the odds.
Poll
Will the Denver Secret Service allow any sacks by TB?
Hell No!
106 votes
One
103 votes
Two
36 votes
Cutler visits Ford Theater to see "My American Cousin"
13 votes

258 votes | Poll has closed

5 recs | Comment 51 comments | Share on Facebook Digg!

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Comments

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Good Read.

There will be no smoke and mirrors here. Everyone one on the team will have to bring something extra for this one.

by precisiontint on Oct 2, 2008 11:17 AM MDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I think we are underestimating Brian Griese.

I’ve been picking TB because I think they’ve found the right chemistry. This game worries me as much, if not more than the Charger game did. It may very well come down to how many points our offense can score in the red zone. Our CB may be better than their WR, but without a pass rush it doesn’t matter…someone will get open on every passing play and Brian Griese is no longer the young bad decision making quarterback he was for us. He is a veteran and though he has thrown quite a few INT the past few games, look at the teams he was facing. Two top 10 defenses in Chicago and Green Bay…two games which he was able to come out on top of.

If God is not a Bronco fan, then WHY are sunsets Blue and Orange? - Jon Tollerud 5/22/08

by Zappa on Oct 2, 2008 11:36 AM MDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Maybe we'll blitz Boss Bailey this week

He could be the second coming of Simon Fletcher, is he’s used correctly.

Of course, he’s our best coverage LB, also so that makes it tough on checkdown coverage…

by CoastalBronco on Oct 2, 2008 12:40 PM MDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Without pressure, this game is going to be too close to call.

If God is not a Bronco fan, then WHY are sunsets Blue and Orange? - Jon Tollerud 5/22/08

by Zappa on Oct 2, 2008 1:02 PM MDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I agree ZAP.

This game bothers me more than SD did. I think Griese can be underestimated, and shouldn’t be taken for granted. I respect the TB defense, but I like our offense too. I think we have a questionable TB offense against a questionable DEN defense, and that is where the game gets decided. I really want to see Griese pressured this game. If he has time, he can be a capable QB.

"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe

by hoosierteacher on Oct 2, 2008 12:45 PM MDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

It does come down to pressure...Damon Huard, Act II.

If God is not a Bronco fan, then WHY are sunsets Blue and Orange? - Jon Tollerud 5/22/08

by Zappa on Oct 2, 2008 1:02 PM MDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

While Griese throws picks, a inexperienced QB he is not.

Any kind of QB pressure for once.

"It doesn't dissipate" ~ Mike Shanahan

Cutler's 4th qtr/OT game winning drives: 4

by weazel on Oct 2, 2008 6:42 PM MDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

This game will be tough

As much as I despise Griese, I think him and Tampa’s offense are far better than what we faced last week in KC, in addition Tampa’s defense is one of the best in the league so we are going to have our work cut out for us on both sides of the ball. If we come out and play uninspired like last week, look out this could be a similar game to the San Diego game last year at Mile High. Yes we have a better offense, but the reality is, our defense is going to need to step up and win this game this week. I am guessing special teams will be a push.

"Me fail english, that unpossible" - Ralph Wiggum

by Broncoman on Oct 2, 2008 12:04 PM MDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Great analysis HT

Buzzed and recd and everything! It will be an interesting game, that is for sure.

That’s ok with me. We’re playing for wins, not media publicity....HT 9/11/08

by firstfan on Oct 2, 2008 12:34 PM MDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Thanks First.

I expect it will be a good game, and a good measure of where we are.

"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe

by hoosierteacher on Oct 3, 2008 12:36 PM MDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

another great installment: Rec'd and buzzed

So, now I’m thinking Shanny brings Lane Kiffin in, then gets his dad to come over as DC… reverse Bates strategy.

can’t help dreamin’

by CoastalBronco on Oct 2, 2008 12:38 PM MDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

You know...

I’m not a cover two fan. But to have Monte Kiffen running our defense, and to find a role for Lane, I think that would be terrific (and would piss off Al Davis). The zone system would make Bailey a little overpriced for us, but we could win with a well run Tampa 2 down the road, and I think it would be easier to get the personnel for such a scheme.

But it would be yet another change, and yes, we’re both dreaming pretty far out there. : )

"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe

by hoosierteacher on Oct 2, 2008 12:49 PM MDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

and isn't pissing off Al Davis what it's all about?

"It's all over Fat Man" - Tom Jackson to John Madden 1977 AFC Championship Game

"I love your analysis of our team. Its kinda like watching a spider monkey trying to figure out a jar of peanuts.. you know whats going on.. you know whats in there, but to actually figure it out, is just a bit beyond your mental skills..."
- Bronco Dano

by DesertBroncoFan on Oct 2, 2008 12:57 PM MDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

As bad as the Raiders are...who fargin' cares if we piss him off.

He is a pariah to the modern NFL. An embarrassment.

If God is not a Bronco fan, then WHY are sunsets Blue and Orange? - Jon Tollerud 5/22/08

by Zappa on Oct 2, 2008 1:04 PM MDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

And thanks Coastal!

"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe

by hoosierteacher on Oct 2, 2008 12:49 PM MDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Rig

If Kuper couldn’t go, Lichtenstieger could be a possibility. I wasn’t aware Kuper was questionable.

"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe

by hoosierteacher on Oct 2, 2008 5:24 PM MDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

yea..it says it on the right side of the front page

i remember he got injured last week during the game
 ..but i couldnt tell when he got back in since i was watching a stream : )

by RiG on Oct 2, 2008 5:34 PM MDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

3 Buzzed up including me

A good job as usual HT. Denver better be ready for Dexter Jackson this week! 100 yards on 3 kick off returns in the last game.

Special Teams HAVE to step it up. I spent a bit of time on the Bucs official site and they are confident that they can get a road win this week.

I am, like many other Bronco’s fans, a bit restless about this game! I don’t think that the 6 INT’s in the last two weeks were anything but a fluke for Griese. Last week two of them were tips by recievers, and who knows if the other was a route run the wrong way. Our CB’s & SAF’s will eat that up!

Anyway, if that is the case then I can certainly understand the missmatch that we have over thier recievers. The “news” from Bucs HQ is that they will run thier tandum of backs early and often untill we stop them, and if we can’t, it will be a long day for Denver’s D.

An early lead would help a lot but, if we can’t find a way to put “a lot” of pressure on the QB, we are in for a long day.

I know that the Bucs, just like Denver, are watching a lot of film and will be ready to try to exploit any weakness that they see there. I just hope that “the constant promise” that the problems we have “are simply LITTLE THINGs, MISS COMUNICATIONS, that can easily be addressed!” and that they have been addressed, THIS WEEK!

Thanx again HT for the in depth input as always. Buzz up ya’ll! HT should be an annalist for espn and needs the recognition! Maybe then we would get some truth on the issues at hand.

by metalman5050 on Oct 2, 2008 5:48 PM MDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Thanks for the kind words as always Metal.

I really agree with you that this game can be a can answer the question about whether our defense has some minor, fixable problems, or if we really have a major problem on hand. TB isn’t as great on offense as they are on defense, but Griese can pick apart an underperforming defense.

"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe

by hoosierteacher on Oct 3, 2008 12:41 PM MDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Do you think we run enough stunts?

i havent payed enough attention to know,, but i dont think we do..
watching some other games i saw teams do stuff to get pressure or make the qb feel presure
for example the RDE bull rushed trying to run his guy into the qb while the LDE sprinted completely around his guy onto the other side of the qb and the RDT stunted round the LDT taking on the RG with no RT support ..so the qb felt presure behind him and to his left so he rolled right and thats when the RDT quickly chased him down for a sack

of course this was a more obvious passing down but it made the qb feel pressure from multiple sides and take his concentration away from the play

thoughts??

by RiG on Oct 2, 2008 5:50 PM MDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I don't think that stunts are the answer for what ails us.

The personnel have to be in place to do the little things effectively before they can do the more exotic stuff. Some trickery can be used to cover up weaknesses, but in the case of DLmen shooting gaps that are one or two gaps away, that’s less of a “cover up” kind of call and more of a trick that an already tough line can use to get even more pressure.

Just my opinion, but the best way to cover up our problems on the interior are to bring in a LB from a different direction each play. Right now, the philosophy seems to be to abandon the rush in favor of having more players in zone. Given the speed we have with the DB and LBs, I’d rather see more man coverage and some help with the rush game.

I’m eager to see what, if any adjustments are made to help our pass defense.

"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe

by hoosierteacher on Oct 3, 2008 12:49 PM MDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

my 1/2 cent

Looking at how different teams are game planning against us, they are not worried about a pass rush because they think that they can run at will!

When they do pass, Denver has still been worried about the run, and so , no pass rush. Your piont on stunts is well taken! A team must first “PLAN” on a pass rush in order to even game plan a few stunts here and there. We just arn’t doing it!

by metalman5050 on Oct 2, 2008 5:57 PM MDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Thanks for the division of your Cent

true i agree with what your saying
still on a 3rd and long situations we need to be able to generate pressure without worrying about the run

by RiG on Oct 2, 2008 6:06 PM MDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I sincerely second that oppinion!

I have seen the D improve little by little. I think that the last game would have been hard for any D to stand up to, due to field possition, but they were valient.

The issue is the pass rush! It simply hasn’t existed. Doom is still hampered but getting better. What happened to Robinson, who was supposed to, regardless of the bad Knees, put a lot of pressure up the middle. That is what Denver needs. The Bucs front four.

by metalman5050 on Oct 2, 2008 6:15 PM MDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

The defense looked better against K.C.

but it should have. The Chiefs have a horrible offense. Yet they scored 33 points. Even with the offense’s shortcomings, that’s not too impressive. Most other defenses in the league would have stopped the Chiefs cold, despite the offense’s turnovers. We made them look way better than they actually are.

"In the empty spaces - lacunae, vacuums, pauses, voids, black holes - new things begin. We are born anew from the unexplored space, the badlands, the outlaw territory." - Sam Keen

by spock on Oct 2, 2008 6:42 PM MDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I feel better about this game than the K.C. game

The latter was a classic trap game, one we “couldn’t lose” on the home field of a team desperate for a win whereas we were undefeated with a suspect bad defense. Tampa Bay is a much better opponent, but they’re coming off a win, we’re coming off a loss, and it’s at our place. This time the motivation will be in our favor. We’re the ones who have something to prove. If we don’t lose our nerve and play as you suggest, HT, rushing four and even blitzing from time to time, and having the CBs cover tight, I think we’ll have a big game. Otherwise it’ll be a close game. I doubt that we’ll be able to play the safety deep unless the d-line plays inspired ball. I don’t know if this is a kind of defense, but I think we should attack with blitzes and have linebackers concentrate on looking for screen passes and dump-offs, with the corners more or less isolated in man coverage. We risk getting burned deep but if we’re fired up enough I don’t think it will happen, at least not enough to turn the game. My worry is that we’ll continue to play too passively on defense by design. I think our defense will play much better, even with occasional breakdowns, if the coaches game-plan a more aggresssive approach.

"In the empty spaces - lacunae, vacuums, pauses, voids, black holes - new things begin. We are born anew from the unexplored space, the badlands, the outlaw territory." - Sam Keen

by spock on Oct 2, 2008 6:36 PM MDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Great point Spock.

I think the loss we had was a much needed wake up call. The team has a great opportunity to come out motivated and better prepared. A loss early in the season can be a positive thing, particularly against a “push over” team. The focus should be there this week.

Great thoughts as always First Officer.

"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe

by hoosierteacher on Oct 3, 2008 12:54 PM MDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

KC game was a blessing in disquise (sp?)

I think the loss to KC will make us more alert to a defense that is better. A game is won and lost in the trenches and our o-line needs to keep it up (protecting Jay).

I totally agree with HT on our CBs and the fact that we need them to be somewhat more aggresive and bump TBs WRs at the line to get them off their routes.

"It doesn't dissipate" ~ Mike Shanahan

Cutler's 4th qtr/OT game winning drives: 4

by weazel on Oct 2, 2008 6:52 PM MDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I tried to convince myself that while I was sitting in the stands.

Bottom line, I think this team is mature enough to be able to notice their shortcomings even in the wake of a win. If our guys didn’t at least have a funny taste in their mouths after the Saints game, then there is something wrong. Drew Brees absolutely shredded us, as did Phyllis Rivers, and that should have been the wake up call. I think the best thing for us to do this week is to play confident and poised, withing ourselves, and not commit costly mistakes. The attitude against the Chiefs seemed to be “oh well, we fumbled, we can get those 3 points back in the 4th quarter… our offense will turn on eventually…” We need to avoid that mentality. We need to come out and go for the kill. If we can jump out to an early lead and hold on to it, I think that would do wonders for our confidence.

3-1.

by papigrande on Oct 2, 2008 7:31 PM MDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I hear what you are saying

and maybe the fact that we lost made it even more clear. Your last two sentences say it best. Turnovers are the big key because their defense is very good.

"It doesn't dissipate" ~ Mike Shanahan

Cutler's 4th qtr/OT game winning drives: 4

by weazel on Oct 2, 2008 11:45 PM MDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Agreed on the blessing in disguise.

A loss can force coaches and players alike to focus a little harder. Good call!

"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe

by hoosierteacher on Oct 3, 2008 12:56 PM MDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I can feel a blow out coming up....

and unfortunately, against us.
I know I sound negative, but I am TOTALLY appalled at this defense. This is the biggest WHAT IF any team has in the whole NFL.
To have an offense as explosive as this, and for the Broncos to do nothing to fix the defense (on the surface but I can only be led by what we all know) is an ABSOLUTE TRAVESTY.
Shanny’s reputation is play for the now…to be a contender NOW……we need to go out and get a Leonard Little or a half decent DT to give this team a chance of greatness THIS YEAR.
I am not sold on the D Line, on Nate Webster and on Marquand Manuel, yet we continue to play them at their own consequence.
This is TRULY a year when the NFL is very close…it will not take much on defense to make us a TRUE contender, yet I see nothing THIS WEEK that makes me hopeful for this weekend.
Damn, I hope I am wrong, but why cant Shanny and Slowik see what the REST of us see as obvious.
LETS GO DEFENSE….PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE PROVE ME WRONG!

by boydy2669 on Oct 2, 2008 7:27 PM MDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I don't think it's that bad.

And I think trading for a guy like Leonard Little would be a bad, bad, bad idea. Remember Simeon Rice? If we went out and got a patch player like that who would be gone after one year, it would impede the development of guys like Marcus Thomas and Jarvis Moss. Remember, we are very young on defense, and it takes quite a while for a defensive lineman to developin the NFL. Give them time and they’ll get better. And if they don’t, then declare them all busts and patch away. Inconsistency is to be expected with youth. Remember that.

I think our biggest problem on D is the lack of a leader. A guy like John Lynch or Al Wilson who would take charge of the team and make everyone better. If we can find that in one of our young guys like DJ, Thomas, or even Spencer Larsen, it will instantly make them better. Give it time and we will improve.

Also, I wouldn’t expect a blowout. Tampa Bay got shredded by Drew Brees, and Jay Cutler is every bit as good as Drew Brees. 2+2=4 and we will score points at home. If our D can at least hold them under 25 we will win, make no mistake about it. Anything above 30 and it’s another coin flip.

3-1.

by papigrande on Oct 2, 2008 7:37 PM MDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Papigarnde...TOTALLY disagree on Leoanrd Little...

Hes no Simeon Rice….he had 2 sacks a agianst a very good O line at Buffalo, and 2 years agao was sack leader in NFC.
He would not be a ptach player…he would give us another legitimate pass rusher for 2 or 3 seasons while giving Crowder amd Moss some time to develop and help Dumervil out.
We have NO fire power on our D Line, and this will cost us a potentially great season.
I am not going ot bet the future of this team on the HOPE that these D players are going to develop.
I would agree with you if our offense had not taken such HUGE steps, but they have, and we need to do something to bring the D to a level where we can go deep in the play offs.
Did I beleive that the O would be SO good? NO. But it is, so now we have to adjust and adjust fast. On the same token, I had NO idea this defense would be so BAD…I thought they were going to develop faster than they have.
Thanks papigarnde,….I like your posts but I dont agree with you on this one.
Have a great week man!

by boydy2669 on Oct 2, 2008 8:26 PM MDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

No Mistakes Fellas

this is going to be one of those close games,one turn over will swing it either way.
We can move the ball on theses guys,if the D gives us a stop or 2 we win.

by Shiiver on Oct 2, 2008 9:15 PM MDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

yep

60 minutes of mistake free football, for both teams, is on order for sunday.

Great post HT!!

Mountains, forest, sea: these render man fierce, but yet do not destroy the man.

by styg50 on Oct 2, 2008 10:24 PM MDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Thanks Styg!

"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe

by hoosierteacher on Oct 3, 2008 12:59 PM MDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Mistake free game for the Broncos

I wouldn’t mind seeing us pick off Griese a few times.

"It doesn't dissipate" ~ Mike Shanahan

Cutler's 4th qtr/OT game winning drives: 4

by weazel on Oct 3, 2008 7:19 PM MDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

what's with the lane kiffin for oc, anyway?

i like him, too, but what is wrong with bates all of the sudden? he was a young genious until we turned the ball over 4 times in the last game. now, everyone wants to replace him? not me. as far as the defense goes, i have a question i’ve been trying to figure out. if we drop the safety back(i’m assuming on early/running downs, since we drop everybody back on 3rd/passing downs), how is that going to help us stop the run, one of the keys to the game? if you’re talking about as a base defense, with an equal chance of run/pass on a given down and distance, we don’t seem to be playing it that way. it’s all up to stuff the run, or all back to let them catch the ball, most of the time. if the front 7 could stop the run, bates would still be here. if the safety is back on a pass play, and the passing defense is the main concern, i don’t see how that would help with the coverage we are using. it doesn’t seem to me there aren’t enough guys in coverage, i see 3 broncos surrounding almost every receiver, with noone actually on him. how would an extra safety help, here? am i being stupid here, and can you clarify this for me? thanks in advance

hear me, perpetrators of bread crime, your punishment is at hand.
taste my blintzkrieg!

by davecheffy on Oct 2, 2008 10:28 PM MDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I don't recall anyone praising Jeremy Bates

Who said he was a young genious? In my opinion, he is nothing more than a middleman with too much authority to call some of his own plays. Bates played some QB in College, but never any experience as a Pro. He started as an assistant in Tampa Bay, and then was promoted to Assistant QB Coach before Shanny hired him in 06 to fill the same role.

Personally, I think Shanny is committing to Bates as the Kubiak replacement. Question is: Is he the real deal yet, and can he do it with his limited experience? At least Kubiak had 9 years as a player in the pros, 2 years as a college coach and one year as the 49er QB Coach when Steve Young won his SuperBowl. Then he ended with 10 years as Coordinator with Denver.

Bates isnt even close to the experience as Kubiak had when he began Coaching in Denver.

"If Denver beats us, I'll walk back to Detroit" - Alex Karras

by Denver Diehard on Oct 3, 2008 8:44 AM MDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

My concern about Bates...

…even in the first 3 games, was that the “air show is great”, but where is the pass game? The air show is a lot of fun for the fans, but it can’t be counted on to win games forever. As we saw in KC, if the opposition shuts down the pass, what are we gonna do? Starting up the run game late in the game doesn’t wear anyone down. I’ve advocated an early air show to get a lead, and then a running game to eat clock and beat down the opposing defense. We’re playing with “turnover fire” the way things have been going, and it burned us in KC. Don’t get me wrong, I like winning. But losing to KC, winning by a missed FG, and winning by a two pt. conversion is living dangerously.

Good points on Bates. He’s not a bad play caller, and Shanahan is there if things aren’t being done right. But I’m hoping the KC game helps bates find a little more balance.

"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe

by hoosierteacher on Oct 3, 2008 1:12 PM MDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I agree

In simple terms, I would say that Denver lost to KC because of their mistakes. On the other hand, Denver did not win the game due to poor play calling.

"If Denver beats us, I'll walk back to Detroit" - Alex Karras

by Denver Diehard on Oct 3, 2008 3:48 PM MDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Agreed.

And to be completely fair, KC played a good game.

"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe

by hoosierteacher on Oct 4, 2008 1:45 PM MDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Styg and I will be putting up a story about using safeties two deep.

It does help with the run (and the pass), but it’s worth a much longer post than a comment thread should take up. The problem with Bates wasn’t his use of the safeties (Styg did an excellent article pointing out how well Lynch did deep as well as in the box). The problem was that he made some terrible personnel decisions, gutted our good players, brought in bad players, and used a scheme not appropriate for the players that were existing when he got here.

Almost every team in the NFL uses two deep safeties (not to be confused with cover two, which is more defined by what the LBs do). The front seven should be relied on to stop runs. The safeties are available if someone gets through, but that should be rare. Pulling a safety into the box is an indication of a weak front seven (unless it is a system approach, such as the 46 defense).

"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe

by hoosierteacher on Oct 3, 2008 1:06 PM MDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Beofre we give Tampa's offense too much credit...

If anyone knows Griese’s weaknesses (both physical and mental) it’s Shanny. I know he’s not considered a defensive mastermind, but there’s no way he wasn’t in some defensive meetings this week.

I expect the Denver defesne to throw multiple looks at Griese very early, but moreso, I expect Gruden to run the ball a ton early and often.

If I allowed myself to bet on Broncos games, I would take Denver and the points this week.

Griese had a hard time with the Packers and they have NO secondary to speak of with Harris being banged up. Denver has a far superior secondary and should bring plenty of heat throughout the game. Griese is a below average QB, always has been. He’s accurate, but that’s all. No arm, no ability to create, and no speed. This guy is a goner if Denver can get a hat on him early.

by super7 on Oct 3, 2008 2:35 PM MDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I look forward to this

Hopefully part of the discussion will be the use of Marquand Manuel in man to man coverage the first few games.

by MattR on Oct 3, 2008 6:19 PM MDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

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