Dre Bly: The Definition of a Double Edged Sword
After a year and quarter of watching Dre Bly remind me more of rich man's Deltha O'Neal then the shut down corner he is praised to be, is it time to start thinking of replacements? I know Bly had 5 interceptions last year, and a solid 59 tackles for a corner back, but I thought the burns outweighed goodness. More often then not I find Dre Bly whiffing on the play, or simply blowing coverage and not picking up the man in his zone.
I appreciate that he comes to play(Played ALL 16 games in 2007 and every game this year), and seems to be a laid back presence in the locker room but I think he gets much more credit then he deserves on the field.
Am I overreacting do to the lack of pass rush Denver has been able to put on opposing quarterbacks? Or the less then spectacular safeties(also needs to be looked at)? Or do others share the same feeling I do? Dre Bly always leaves me wanting more, and I don't know if I will ever be satisfied.
This is a Fan-Created Comment on MileHighReport.com. The opinion here is not necessarily shared by the editorial staff of MHR
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I Agree
For the money he wants and as good as he thinks he is, we can’t keep him as a #3 CB, which is where we would want him. He’s a decent CB, but hasn’t been great for us, and I don’t think he’ll be a Bronco next year.
I disagree
The problem is I really don’t know who you could bring in here that would be as good, yes he makes some mistakes, but no more than many other CB in the league. I mean there is something to the fact that the best CB usally have good pass rushes, look at Deanglo Hall and Cromartie, both looked silly when Cutler had time and matched against top WR, the Kansas City CB who probably aren’t as talented looked a lot better because Cutler was pressured. So unless we are planning on using a 1 or 2 round draft choice on a CB, I think he will be back next year. Because I doubt Paymah or Williams are the answers.
"Me fail english, that unpossible" - Ralph Wiggum
That's the thing.
I don’t know who the Broncos can bring in to replace him. That’s why I brought up the lack of pressure the Broncos get. A secondary is usually only as good as the ability to get pressure on the quarterback. In the NFL a QB can find someone if he has all day, unfortunately it just usually seems to be Dre’s man. I guess that’s usually going to be the case with Champ on the opposite side.
"People ask me, 'What did you think about the draft picks?' I said, 'Dude, I don't watch.' I'm still kind of bitter," Smith said. "Some guys got drafted and they ain't played football in 15 years and I'm still waiting to get drafted. I'm still waiting to hear my name." -Rod Smith
There is nuance to this which gets missed...
and I’m indefatigably interested in nuance, so here goes. On nearly every play, the Broncos corners play outside technique off-coverage. What this means, for those who may not know, is that they line up with their backs to the sidelines, and 8-10 yards off the line of scrimmage. You can see this every play.
Now, this is really good for Champ Bailey, who is the best I have ever seen at playing off-coverage. From this alignment, he can watch the QB, and jump a route when he sees a 3 step drop. He can also read the run, and fill quickly in setting the edge, which he is also brilliant at for a CB.
This alignment does not suit Dre as much, however. He needs to be in bump-man to be most effective. The receiver is getting a free release off the line in this outside-off technique, and he has the middle of the field available to him on virtually any play. More often than not, catches on him have been on slants and square-ins, and there was no LB or S help.
Dre is a better player than the scheme makes him look like. He has actually been very good at filling in the run game this season, which was a persistent complaint against him last season. With the bend-but-don’t-break mentality of the coverage scheme, we have to live with some passes being completed inside on Dre.
"I am not one of those who think that coming in second or third is winning." -- Robert F. Kennedy
Very good observation
You are correct, I had really never thought much about their technique, but you are right as far as how Bailey basically uses a triangle to play where he watches the WR and QB at the same time, and Bly may be a better press corner, where all he is playing is the WR and not the play, although this does lead to having your back to the play a lot of times.
"Me fail english, that unpossible" - Ralph Wiggum
I inherently don't like him...
But that is just because he went to my school’s rival. I have to say that i have been pleasantly surprised with his play this year. He seems to have improved his tackling, which was one area that I felt was lacking last year. Also, I cant remember him being burnt long yet, so that is also an improvement over last year.
Like you say, the passes completed on him have all been over the middle in front of him, and he has made the tackle each time. With the scheme we are using, that is all you can ask for from him.
I posted below before I read this
Great take, TedBartlett! Although I’m not a huge Dre fan (I wish he was a more intimidating hitter), I agree that he’s better in the right system.
The scheme
I also agree that the type of defense does not fit him particularly well. I guess I’m slightly confused on the assignments each corner is given. Is he basically told to give up the 6-8 yards just not the 20? And Champ is just that good, and he is that good, he can close fast enough where it just is not an option to throw at his man? I know now through 5 games he has been thrown at a measly 11 times.
Correct me if I am mistaken, but on the last drive where Tampa Bay scored on a pass to Ike Hilliard, he looked inexcusably open. Was that Dre’s man in his coverage or was he expecting a linebacker/safety to be on Ike. I’m not trying to harp on Bly for one play I just still don’t understand Denver’s defense. With that said, they played dramatically better overall yesterday and also limited the big plays.
Great information Ted, thanks sir.
"People ask me, 'What did you think about the draft picks?' I said, 'Dude, I don't watch.' I'm still kind of bitter," Smith said. "Some guys got drafted and they ain't played football in 15 years and I'm still waiting to get drafted. I'm still waiting to hear my name." -Rod Smith
If Bly is not meant for this type of defense...
He obviously would have value around the league, so could Denver flip his value for something that can help the team more in the long run? Maybe I’m being too critical of Bly, but overall I have not been impressed. I hope he proves me wrong from here out. Way wrong.
"People ask me, 'What did you think about the draft picks?' I said, 'Dude, I don't watch.' I'm still kind of bitter," Smith said. "Some guys got drafted and they ain't played football in 15 years and I'm still waiting to get drafted. I'm still waiting to hear my name." -Rod Smith
I was thinking the same thing
If the defense can’t flex to accommodate his particular style, would we be better off without him and bring in someone who can play this particular style?
Would it be unheard of for Champ to play outside-off and have Bly play bump-man? Would that be a detriment to the rest of the scheme?
"It's all over Fat Man" - Tom Jackson to John Madden 1977 AFC Championship Game
"I love your analysis of our team. Its kinda like watching a spider monkey trying to figure out a jar of peanuts.. you know whats going on.. you know whats in there, but to actually figure it out, is just a bit beyond your mental skills..."
- Bronco Dano
by DesertBroncoFan on Oct 6, 2008 3:57 PM MDT up reply actions
Not in my opinion.
Would it be unheard of for Champ to play outside-off and have Bly play bump-man? Would that be a detriment to the rest of the scheme?
Decisions on how to use CBs are typicaly related to individual plays. I don’t think it would affect an overall philosophy to let Bly play bump (or tight) or even “on”. But “off” just isn’t his thing. If the front four can pass rush (or in a 3-4, if the front 3 plus one LB), and if the front seven can stop runs, there is no reason we can’t drop back the second safety and let Bly play his style.
"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe
by Steve Nichols on Oct 6, 2008 4:07 PM MDT up reply actions
So
it is still predicated on getting the safety back thus indicating the ability of the front 7 to do their jobs.
"It's all over Fat Man" - Tom Jackson to John Madden 1977 AFC Championship Game
"I love your analysis of our team. Its kinda like watching a spider monkey trying to figure out a jar of peanuts.. you know whats going on.. you know whats in there, but to actually figure it out, is just a bit beyond your mental skills..."
- Bronco Dano
by DesertBroncoFan on Oct 6, 2008 4:12 PM MDT up reply actions
Yes.
I don’t think it is system related at all. Once we can prove that the front seven can handle the running plays, we’ll start dropping back the strong safety. When that happens, Bly (and Bailey) will have a much better time of things. A good pass rush would help tremendously too.
"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe
by Steve Nichols on Oct 6, 2008 4:31 PM MDT up reply actions
Solid point Ted.
I’ve always focused on our lack of pass rush and the “missing” safety on Bly’s side of the field. But the off coverage is something that has to grate on Bly too. Bailey is allowed to line up “off” because he wants to (or so he says). But Bly has been line up “off”, in my opinion, because the coaching staff seems concerned about the run and keeps a safety in the box. Combine that with the lack of a pass rush, and Bly gets a bum rap in my estimation.
"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe
by Steve Nichols on Oct 6, 2008 3:53 PM MDT up reply actions
HT and I consistently agree on the value of Bly
My point before wasn’t so much that Bly CAN’T play outside-off, but rather that we should expect passes to be completed inside of him when he is playing that technique without inside help. If you remember the SD game, Rivers/Chambers hit a couple inside plays on Champ too, despite his outstanding ability to close quickly.
HT is taking my point a step further in his very correct assertion that 2 deep safeties would protect against the easy inside stuff. I’d like to see more true cover-2, rushing 4 and dropping 7, on 3rd downs. The key to that is getting pressure with 4, which the Broncos have to improve at. Again, HT is correct that it all begins with pass rush.
"I am not one of those who think that coming in second or third is winning." -- Robert F. Kennedy
nice nuance
I have not noticed Bly missing too many tackles in the regular season which is a big plus (the preseason was a different story).
Regarding the CB technique, I think our nickel CB (who lines up outside) does the same thing. A lot of the completions on Paymah and/or Jack Williams were on deep out/comeback routes. It is tough to see the details on the outside WRs to know for sure, but it seemed that the WR would drive deep and force the CB to backpedal and/or turn and run. As soon as that happened, the WR would cut out to the sidelines. Because they are playing that outside technique, Paymah and Williams have to spin around and turn their back to the ball in order to match that cut. Champ is so good/fast that he does not have to do that. For the most part, he is able to cut directly from his backpedal towards the sideline.
I hope that as the season goes on, Slowick will adjust his coverages to take advantage of the strengths of his players. I have not had a chance to rewatch the Bucs game, but in real time it looked like Bly was staying on the outside when Tampa had multiple WR in the game instead of moving into the slot. But I need to watch a replay to slow things down and figure out if Denver was in a nickel or if they had 4 LB on the field.
I'd like to see him with a solid coverage safety over the top
I think he’d be good in the right system. I don’t think we can expect success from him when he’s on an island (the way we do with Champ).
Good call!
"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe
by Steve Nichols on Oct 6, 2008 3:49 PM MDT up reply actions
I haven't seen a college guy who I think fits the mold...
I loved Reggie Nelson a couple years ago, coming out of Florida, and our staff preferred his teammate, Jarvis Moss. Nelson is hurt right now, but is outstanding when healthy. I hope there is somebody like that available in the 09 draft.
"I am not one of those who think that coming in second or third is winning." -- Robert F. Kennedy
Styg and I will be doing a story on the use...
…of two deep safeties as opposed to one. We’ll be touching on the affect it has had on Bly.
But for now, here’s my opinion.
First, the lack of pass rushing has hurt both Bailey and Bly (as well as our other DBs).
It hurts Bly the most. Consider that opposing QBs will avoid Bailey (he wasn’t even thrown at in the last game) so that most throws go to Bly to begin with.
Now add in the fact that Bly plays a completely different style than Bailey does (Bly is a “gambler” as opposed to a "cover"), and depends more heavily on the safeties than does Bailey. Bly loses a step because he needs to ensure that a safety has his deep zone so that he can do his thing, which is cutting off the pass lane. This move can’t be done without a safety covering over the top. In Detroit’s cover two, Bly racked up interceptions. In Denver, even without the cover two scheme, we could play formations featuring two deep safeties (the norm in most systems) to allow Bly to maximize his style.
Bear in mind that for a stretch of several years, Bly was second only to Champ Bailey for receptions (before coming to Denver), and a pro-bowler. Bly’s production took a downturn at the same time as Bailey’s.
I’m a big fan of the DBs positions (CB and SAFs), and devoted a lot of my studies as a defensive coordinator to maximizing CBs. In my opinion, Bly is getting a raw deal from the lack of pass rushing and the lack of a zone being covered to allow him to charge the lane. I’m in Bly’s corner on this one.
And recommended (for the great conversation your solid post will get started). : )
"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe
by Steve Nichols on Oct 6, 2008 3:45 PM MDT reply actions 1 recs
Good explanation HT. Thank you.
That’s ok with me. We’re playing for wins, not media publicity....HT 9/11/08
I love what MHR provides
Thanks guys for the excellent insights to the CB position. I will most definitely be looking at our CB with this information in mind during the next couple of games.
My image is the Circa 1960-’61 Broncos home uniform sock. Some what folk lore to me ... but referred to as the clown sock by my Dad.
by YellowStoneBronco on Oct 6, 2008 3:55 PM MDT reply actions
See also this article for more on the CB position.
This article was courtesy of MHR University.
"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe
by Steve Nichols on Oct 6, 2008 4:10 PM MDT up reply actions
Dre Bly would be a much better corner if we had any kind of pressure up front...
really, all of our problems stem from that. We got better than usual pressure against TB and look what happened, only 13 points and a solid defensive output.
If God is not a Bronco fan, then WHY are sunsets Blue and Orange? - Jon Tollerud 5/22/08
Great Comments.
I think his play is much better this season. Don’t give up the big play deep and continue to improve tackling and I am okay with him. Keep up the DLine pressure!
I cant stand Bly
that being said, I think he has played pretty good this year. Without much of a pass rush so far this season he hasnt been abused as I thought he would. Really IMO the lack of a rush has hurt the defense more than anything. I would love to see him gone, but I have realized there isnt really anyone who is good enuff to replace him. Like if Williams, Paymah, or Foxworth (who BTW cant even get on the field in ATL) were good enuff they would have replaced him. So I think he is a good complement to Champ. (BTW where are all the clowns who were criticizing Champ last week? I am tired of you. Speak up NOW! Cant HEAR YOU)
somethings wrong, Trying to conquer these fears i thought were gone. And it's been so long, I'm dying to live in a world i don't belong
by broncfanstuckinsd on Oct 7, 2008 11:45 AM MDT reply actions

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