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One Last Comment on "the glove" Controversy

This is my first post. I lack the football smarts to post here, but I love to read you guys :) However, before we take a look forward to Atlanta, I want to say my piece on the glove issue.

 

I must say, I've been somewhat dismayed while reading some of the reactions by the local media and even members of the broncos organization over this issue of Brandon Marshall's plan to display a black and white glove as a tribute of racial unity. Jimmy Page recently dismissed Marshall's glove salute just another selfish, immature step down the path to becoming the next T.O.

 

Page: "Three years into the league, you wonder if Marshall is ever going to get it. That it's about the team, not him. The truth is, he's showing all the signs of being a prima donna wide receiver in the mold of Terrell Owens and Chad Johnson." (See the Article: http://www.denverpost.com/jimmy/ci_10928114 )

 

I have to take issue with a such one-sided public negative assessments of Marshall's (almost) action.

 

I'm not saying people shouldn't call out the potential impact to the team, however I think anyone who is going to criticize Marshall's means should at least level that criticism with some kind of endorsement of his ends (racial and national unity). I feel any comment that fails to at least acknowledge this goal, or, at worse, lumps it it in with typical "wide receiver prima donna" behavior runs the risk of belittling those very admirable goals.

 

No one here would question Jake Plummer's tribute to Pat Tillman. That act was above football, and justifiably seen as quite noble. Could Jake have found another way to honor his friend? Sure, but he wanted to send a message that at the end of the day football is just a game he was playing, while his friend sacrificed his life for his country.

 

Now, Marshall's act would have impacted the game, where as Plummer only faced a league penalty. Yet I feel that his tribute, too, classifies as "above football."

Could have Marshall have found another, less costly (though substantially less influential) way to show his national pride? Sure. That would have have certainly been more sensible. Marshall needs to use better judgement–something that was quite clear from listening to Marshall muddle through his incomprehensible post-game news conference.

 

Yet I stand by my view that anyone with a microphone or widely circulated column) does the public (and dare say the nation*) a disservice when discussing the glove without giving at least a *nod* to its meaning, not to mention the noble (not selfish!) intentions of Marshall.

 

* Of course this wasn't meant as an explicitly political statement, nor do I believe was Marshall's.

 

 

This is a Fan-Created Comment on MileHighReport.com. The opinion here is not necessarily shared by the editorial staff of MHR

1 recs  |  Comment 27 comments

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I disagree.

Marshall’s glove tribute was selfish for several reasons.

1. By breaking the rules, Marshall could have cost his team the win. Stokley was right in stopping his teammate.

2. The tribute was less about racial unity, and more about a certain political candidate. The day we have true racial harmony will be when we don’t notice the skin color of a candidate, as Marshall did.

3. I don’t buy that there is ever “unity” because of any election (except [perhaps] when Reagan won his second term with 49 states out of 50). There isn’t even unity on what constitutes the advancement of civil rights. Consider that Lincoln was a republican, that the first elective office holders of every federal seat (except the incoming president) where all republicans, that affirmative action and the voting rights amendment and the civil rights amendment where all passed by republicans over democrat objections, that it was southern, white governors who tried to block access to integration (against a republican president, Eisenhower, and a democrat, Kennedy), and that republican cabinets have been more racialy diverse than democratic ones. We could go on and on (republicans get rid of klansmen like David Duke, or demote people who make questionable comments like Trent Lott, but democrats make excuses for Robert Byrd and others). One could just as easily argue that the current election means the end of any justification for affirmative action. One could also argue that the treatment of Hillary Clinton and the treatment of Sarah Palin shows that we are a misogynistic society.

One can accept or disagree with any of these points. To agree is to believe that Marshall’s “tribute” was out of place. To disagee, one is demonstrating that there is still no unity on these issues, and that it would be offensive to proclaim unity from the context of a partisan celebration or an election that had no more of a turnout than 2004. It just has no place in football.

For me, I think it would have been just as reprehensible to have had a McCain victory and have Marshall stop Stokely from putting on a bra and a moose fur coat. (lol)

Let’s let this whole issue fade away, and do so congratulating Stokley (and even Marshall) for letting cooler heads prevail. Football is a place for everyone, left and right, to forget about politics and to enjoy an escape from the daily grind.

Let’s agree to wish our new president well, to be ever grateful that we live in a country where power shifts peacefully, and to live in a country where the Broncos lead the division and the raiders continue to suck. Gotta love America!

"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe

by Steve Nichols on Nov 11, 2008 6:05 AM MST reply actions   1 recs

I agree with 1 point...

…and that was that Stokely did a good job in stopping Marshall. Stokely IMO is one of the best players on this team because he does not have huge receiving numbers but he is a clutch player always available when you need him and he is a leader. If you were a brand new fan of the Broncos and you saw that play – you might say, “Who the hell is Stokely to stop Marshall; Marshall is better than Stokely”

I think that Marshall’s head / heart was in the right place and do not mind that he was going to demonstrate his glove. I am not black so it is hard for me to appreciate the things that some black people have gone through. While I personally voted for Barr, I do think that there are upsides to Obama being in office.

To me, the only time I see racial controversy is when Reverand Jackson, Oprah, or the hens on the View, get up in arms about it because I am just not exposed to it. So while I don’t understand why having a black president is such a big deal, I get that it is a big deal to some.

With that being said, I do think that having a black president will do an awful lot to further unify the country so far as race relations. Again, I personally do not see how there is already an issue but there must be. The country took a big step and I have no problem with Marshall wanting to demonstrate this because of this main point – in his interviews, he did not say one thing about black power, or “we are finally recognized”, or blacks are no longer as much of a minority, or anything of that nature – his message was on unity among races and the country.

It would be hard for me to criticize something that I A) do not understand and B) doesn’t really affect me but it obviously affects the millioins of people in this country. There is not much of a bigger stage that Marshall could have other than the game winning touchdown on a primetime game.

But you are right HT:

One can accept or disagree with any of these points. To agree is to believe that Marshall’s "tribute" was out of place. To disagee, one is demonstrating that there is still no unity on these issues, and that it would be offensive to proclaim unity from the context of a partisan celebration or an election that had no more of a turnout than 2004.

Personally I would like for it not to happen at all in the game but it was going to and I don’t think that Marshall is a bad guy because of it. We as fans watch football because it is entertaining to us. However, football is these players’ lives and livelihoods and their priorities are different than ours.

There is no 'Ctrl' button on Chuck Norris's computer. Chuck Norris is always in control.
Chuck Norris destoryed the periodic table because he only recognizes the element of surprise.

by nickt84 on Nov 11, 2008 6:51 AM MST up reply actions   0 recs

Good point Nick

Marshall’s intentions were good. He really meant well. But the difference between a young man and an old man is that a young man thinks with his heart (and often another part of the anatomy). Older men learn that we need to feel and to think; to temper action with wisdom.

I would have been more proud of Marshall if he had made a statement about his feelings off of the field (like, during an interview). Doing it during the game was theonly problem. Also, everyone should keep in mind that Marshall’s only offense was planning to do what he was going to do. Marshall deserves credit for keeping his head and stopping himself when he realized the consequences (again, thanks in part to Stokely).

Let’s also remember to hate Chris Collingsworth, the media dummy who talked over Marshall’s behavior, and even talked over the replay. Thanks again to (espn-like) poor game coverage, most folks missed the whole episode as it was happening.

"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe

by Steve Nichols on Nov 11, 2008 7:03 AM MST up reply actions   0 recs

I agree

Collingsworth is about worthless. His trademark statement is, “You want my expert analysis? Great play!” I guess we are better off without his commentary for stating the obvious.

There is no 'Ctrl' button on Chuck Norris's computer. Chuck Norris is always in control.
Chuck Norris destoryed the periodic table because he only recognizes the element of surprise.

by nickt84 on Nov 11, 2008 8:57 AM MST up reply actions   0 recs

Nicely said HT,

You make a strong argument. In college I wrote an essay on how Lincoln was more interested in unifying the union to strengthen the country than anything else. He always talked about a “stronger union”.

I was always taught that there was a “time and a place” and if Mr. Marshall so chooses to speak his political mind then he can host a town hall event.

While I laud his passion for unity I am glad that cooler heads prevailed, that could have become a major distraction for him, the team and it just wasn’t the time or place.

by Steve O' on Nov 11, 2008 10:37 AM MST up reply actions   0 recs

I agree with you HT

With HT as the NFL Commisioner or HT as the President of the United States, I’ll vote for either! lol

"If Denver beats us, I'll walk back to Detroit" - Alex Karras

by Denver Diehard on Nov 12, 2008 9:05 AM MST up reply actions   0 recs

Disagree with HoosierTeacher

I do agree that BMarshall’s “tribute” was out of place and commend him for listening to Stokley and holding back. Perhaps a better tribute would have been to wear black and white gloves the whole game and make a comment afterward. However, you are wrong to call it selfish. His plan was to pay tribute to a country that just took a BIG step towards healing old wounds. His gesture was an attempt at expressing joy and hope and pleasure at the results of the election. His gesture was not meant to be political. How that can be called selfish, I don’t know. Misguided from a football strategy, yes. Misguided because he didn’t realize that he could not de-politicize his comment, yes. But not selfish. I think that, for just a moment, he was seeing beyond the world of football and the fact that it is just entertainment. That the election was far more significant to him than that one game. I don’t think his message was “Well, we’re all unified now and I am the guy, me, Brandon Marshall, receiver for the Denver Broncos, that gets to proclaim it so!” It was about the hope for unity and the joy he felt at a transcendent moment in our history, not a crass party celebration or (as some people seem to think) a way to say “We Blacks and the Democrats are in charge so in your face!”

Nobody believes that racial unity has happened just because Obama is in the White House. His actual presidency may be a complete disaster (I don’t think so but who knows?). It’s about a single step in humanity’s slow progression through time against the demons we all have inside of us. The desire to define yourself as part of a group and identify the “other” is one of the dark parts of human nature and it manifests itself in many ways. Whether it’s through racism, religious differences (Sunni vs. Shiite, Catholic vs. Prodestant), tribal identity (Hutu vs. Tutsi) or political ideology, humans can find a variety of reasons to hate each other. Totalitarian regimes function best when they have an “other” on which to blame all their problems. Iraq is a fine example of the worst of it all in one place. People are killing each other for religious, tribal, political, nationalistic and (my favorite) criminal motives. So, in the midst of all this, the US of A just showed that we are still a great example of where a person can come and rise to the very top regardless of race. That is why there was such a tremendous outpouring of joy around the world. In spite of all the problems from the last eight years, we still have the core values for which this country has always stood. In this case, that you are judged not on what color you are, but who you are. (I know that the American election process is more of a circus than a genuine contest of leadership skills but hey, it’s all we got!)

Unity is a sufficiently vague term. And trying to get to “Unity” is a sufficiently vague goal. Humanity will spend the rest of eternity taking half steps toward it. Suffice to say, if you only take half steps to your goal, you will never reach it but hopefully you will get close.

One last issue, in referencing the Civil War Republican party, are you saying the Republican party of Lincoln is the SAME party as the Republican party of George W. Bush? I understand that Bush was the “Uniter” and all but, I think his administration falls a wee bit short of being on the same level as Lincoln’s. But I’ll shut up on that because this is a FOOTBALL BLOG BABY!

by GonzoNole on Nov 12, 2008 9:18 AM MST up reply actions   0 recs

I'll boil it down for you.

The reason it was clearly selfish is because it would have hurt his team. His own (wise) decision to abort the celebration was an acknowledgement of that.

As for the current state of the republican party, I covered that in a previous comment in this thread. I’m no fan of Bush, but I think he showed a lot of class under fire while people resorted to obnoxios claims that he was some kind of “Hitler”, or somehow Hellbent on limiting the rights of American citizens (despite the support of a democrat congress and the judiciary). And as a student of political science (it was my master of arts degree), I think Bill Clinton was attacked overzealously too. It’s a shameful degeneration of values in America that we attack leaders that we don’t like in this manner. Obama’s honeymoon will be over soon, and (sadly) he’ll get much of the same. And so on…

"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe

by Steve Nichols on Nov 12, 2008 2:14 PM MST up reply actions   0 recs

HT...

You sure are an interesting cat….

Check out the website listed below...

Rivers light in the loafers?

by EastCoastBronco on Nov 12, 2008 2:26 PM MST up reply actions   0 recs

HT, i agree

With what you say about attacking our leaders (Clinton, especially) but actually wasn’t it much worse early on? Thomas Jefferson was hugely vilified in the press – really horrible personal attacks with no substance to them). He just shruigged them off, but I do wish people would stick to facts – if you think Bush went too far with the Patriot Act, say so and why, but don’t call him names.

He had read the inscription on the gates of Busyrane–‘Be bold’; and on the second gate–‘Be bold, be bold, and evermore be bold’; and then again had paused well at the third gate–‘but not too bold.’" RW Emerson

by bradley on Nov 12, 2008 2:47 PM MST up reply actions   0 recs

I know what you are saying

but boiling things causes them to lose their flavor…

I just don’t agree on the term selfish. Foolish fits better. Taking what had become an unfortunate signature “me me me” maneuver by wide receivers in the end zone and doing something he thought was meaningful was a surprise to me. If you are saying the entire practice of showboating in the end zone is based in selfishness, I will give you that especially since there is a penalty attached. (Was it TO that originated the practice? Enough said.) And yes his own wise decision to abort the celebration was an acknowledgement that it was not right. But that alone shows that his intentions were not to be selfish but to join in a larger celebration. If it was truly selfish, he would have gone through with it. IMHO

I do agree that President Obama’s honeymoon is short lived. The press loves nothing more than building someone up then tearing them down.

by GonzoNole on Nov 12, 2008 3:52 PM MST up reply actions   0 recs

Perception...

Sadly, because of Brandon’s offseason behavior, he has a long way to go before people stop lumping him in with all those other knuckle-heads. To me, Brandon needs to lay low and play hard. Outstanding performances will help erode the preconceptions people have about him. That’s just reality.

I wish Woody Paige was our coach!

by bcfunk on Nov 11, 2008 6:36 AM MST reply actions   0 recs

bc

Agreed.
I think his heart was in the right place. He has improved, and is doing mostly the right things. Unfortunatley many around the sports world are looking for any thing where they can lay in the boot to him.
I think he needs a little slack, and some positive affirmation on the good things he is doing, instead of the mob mentality of everyonbe piling on when he does ANYTHING out of place.
Kick em while they are down….that whole notion sucks!

Those that cant coach, compete!
Failing to plan is planning to fail.

by boydy2669 on Nov 11, 2008 6:49 AM MST reply actions   0 recs

I've said in another post about this...

…that i think it was a selfish act to draw attention to himself. You can put a backstory on it all you want (racial unity, we are one, etc.) but it was a stunt to make him the focal point and take away from the team accomplishment.

I think the game against Atlanta, and the rest of the year for that matter, will go a long way to showing what type of person he is. If he goes through the rest of the games acting like he’s scored a touchdown before and it’s no big deal, then he’s matured. If he comes back and tries some elaborate celebration in the Atlanta game, he isn’t any better than Chad Johnson, Terrell Owens, Randy Moss, etc.

by coffee on Nov 11, 2008 8:12 AM MST reply actions   0 recs

I disagree

I think his wanting to make a statement was not at all selfish but like HT pointed out, maybe not the appropriate time to do so.

I think Marshall is leaps and bounds better than Johnson, Owens, Moss etc because Marshall loves the game. Whenever I watch interviews with him and he has that ear to ear grin; I cannot help myself from smiling as well and can’t keep myself from liking the kid. You can tell he loves to play football. Johnson and Owens love to win and excel and that’s completely different; Marshall just wants to play football and he loves doing it.

You can tell in his play, always fighting for more yards, never wanting the play to end.

With that being said, I don’t think his statement was at all about him even though that may seem what it appeared as. I think he saw it as a momentous occassion and he wanted to capitalize on it but again, probably not the best place to do so.

There is no 'Ctrl' button on Chuck Norris's computer. Chuck Norris is always in control.
Chuck Norris destoryed the periodic table because he only recognizes the element of surprise.

by nickt84 on Nov 11, 2008 8:47 AM MST up reply actions   0 recs

Great Post BTW...

Very intelligent, put together well, thought-out, and open ended provoking discussion.

Good Post!

There is no 'Ctrl' button on Chuck Norris's computer. Chuck Norris is always in control.
Chuck Norris destoryed the periodic table because he only recognizes the element of surprise.

by nickt84 on Nov 11, 2008 8:58 AM MST reply actions   0 recs

-Great post.

Brandon was admirable in his intentions (relative to T.O signing a ball, or 85 doing some choreographed dance)

Brandon was immature in his timing.

Brandon’s entire attitude is opposite from what we see from prima donnas like ocho and TO. when they dont get 12 touchdowns a game the pout and yell. brandon chalks it up to his teammates being skilled. even when he called his teammates out when they weren’t getting it done, the tone wasn’t about getting him the ball more, it was about executing. like nick said- for brandon its about playing the game.

i do not think it is fair to put brandon in the same category as TO and ocho.

maybe he was playing dejected in the miami game. at least he has the sense to talk to the media as if he cares about team first. his head is in the right place. his heart will follow.

by denver_diaspora on Nov 11, 2008 10:08 AM MST reply actions   0 recs

another thing
Marshall said Stokley told him, “Not a good time, might get a 15-yarder.”

Marshall listened to the veteran wide receiver.

“Absolutley, you know I’m a guy who stands for social landmarks, but if it jeopardizes our team and not win the game, I’m not going to do it,” Marshall said.

= guy has his head on straight. we want our youth listening to our veterans. (and we want youth who listen to veterans)

by denver_diaspora on Nov 11, 2008 10:24 AM MST reply actions   0 recs

Pretty hard to believe...

…that Marshall didn’t know beforehand that a gesture with the glove would get him a penalty. He previously had gotten a penalty (last year) for scooping up snow and throwing it at the fans (that was a spntaneous expression of elation at making a TD, but he was penalized because he used a foreign object- which, IMO, was a real chaep call by the zebras – snow is not a sharpie).
Point is, it’s hard to believe that Stokely telling himhe could be penalized was the first time he thought of it.

War is behavior with its roots in the primal sea: eat whatever you touch, or it will eat you. John Fowles.

by bradley on Nov 11, 2008 11:49 AM MST up reply actions   0 recs

I think it was a horrible idea.

Well intentioned? Yea, but this is a football game we are talking about. Not a forum to showcase your political views. If Stokely hadnt stopped him, he’d gotten flagged, and we ended up losing the game, how would we have felt about his political statement? I personally would have been irate.

In my opinion it comes down to one simple fact. To celebrate using a prop is a 15 yard penelty in the NFL. The rules are clear, if you do it, you will be flagged and fined. I believe that any player who plans this type of celebration in spite of the rules needs to get his priorities straight. I love BMarsh, and applaud the fact that he has strong political views and cares about the future of our country. I have no problem with him making any sort of political statement he desires, except during a game. There is too much at stake for too many people for one player to make this sort of decision. I am very glad that he restrained himself when the moment came and I hope that he can restrain himself from planning any such action in the future.

by Papamag on Nov 11, 2008 10:34 AM MST reply actions   0 recs

#15

had a good idea but the time and place was wrong. After talking to my father, he has echoed what has been said here, by TJack, FirstFan, Bear, Diehard, ect. (forgive me if I forgot anyone) his act trying to display the glove was a little immature. I have defended Marshall all the way since the offseason and I do like his attempt for a statement and the best place for it, was when he made his statement at the presser. But regardless of how we all feel about the election and such, the fact he could have cost Denver 15 yards, and turned a win into a loss, would have had worse repercussions and the crap he would have taken in the locker room could have fractured this team.

somethings wrong, Trying to conquer these fears i thought were gone. And it's been so long, I'm dying to live in a world i don't belong

by broncfanstuckinsd on Nov 11, 2008 10:35 AM MST reply actions   0 recs

I completely agree that it was neither the time nor place to be pulling such a stunt

but wonder if we would be talking about it as much if it happened earlier in the game and the outcome of the game wasn’t on the line.

"It's all over Fat Man" - Tom Jackson to John Madden 1977 AFC Championship Game

"I love your analysis of our team. Its kinda like watching a spider monkey trying to figure out a jar of peanuts.. you know whats going on.. you know whats in there, but to actually figure it out, is just a bit beyond your mental skills..."
- Bronco Dano

by DesertBroncoFan on Nov 11, 2008 12:21 PM MST reply actions   0 recs

It's a moot point. BMarsh was just stealing the idea from none other then....

FRANK ZAPPA!

You can see Zappa’s politically charged statement in the picture above. In an effort to raise awareness for desperate housewives, Zappa stands in his bath robe, defiantly holding up his oven-mitted fist of resistance. VIVA LA DUST-BUSTER!

Looks like BMarsh is stealing ideas like TBell is stealing luggage!

Check out the website listed below...

Rivers light in the loafers?

by EastCoastBronco on Nov 11, 2008 1:10 PM MST reply actions   0 recs

I wonder if Marshall realizes

how much positive attention he could draw to his point with a well composed Letter to the Editor in the “Opinion” section of the paper rather than the sports Section. Thanks for he post Chad. Way to stir up the old MHR pot!! Good job.

That’s ok with me. We’re playing for wins, not media publicity....HT 9/11/08

by firstfan on Nov 11, 2008 1:26 PM MST reply actions   0 recs

Letter to the editor?

Sure, and I’ve written a few myself. But let’s don’t forget that Marshall was in an arena with thousands of people watching him, and millions more watching him on TV. McCain and Obama would have died for such an audience just a week before!

He had read the inscription on the gates of Busyrane–‘Be bold’; and on the second gate–‘Be bold, be bold, and evermore be bold’; and then again had paused well at the third gate–‘but not too bold.’" RW Emerson

by bradley on Nov 12, 2008 2:54 PM MST up reply actions   0 recs

My take on this, finally....

I’m really glad we’re talking about something like this, rather than some altercation with his ex-girlfriend. I watched Brandon on the NFL Network set directly after the game, and I was struck by his obvious intelligence, sense of accountability for his own actions, and candor. It was like watching Shannon Sharpe with (vastly) better grammar, or better yet, a Michael Strahan or a Boomer Esiason.

I was particularly struck by how he told the guys that the interception was his fault for making the wrong read, and that he hung Jay Cutler out to dry on that one. This guy is not TO or 85. He’s a young, intelligent guy, who, by all accounts, has an excellent work ethic. He’s growing up, and making better decisions. This player is clearly a building block.

"I am not one of those who think that coming in second or third is winning." -- Robert F. Kennedy

by Ted Bartlett on Nov 12, 2008 2:38 PM MST reply actions   0 recs

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