there seems to be an issue in evaluating defensive talent

I look at the last 3 drafts and they are really good,. Better than the ones that Sundquist was also involved in. I do wish though Denver would have let Sund go before Kubiak help steal Smith from Denver

As an engineer myself I am always looking for the cutting edge idea that will shake up what is currently being done. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn’t. But, we have to give it time to see which way it goes.

I was one that believes that Shanahan needs to give up the GM position and concentrate on coaching, but after reading this I agree with what you are seeing. Shanahan even admitted that he hasn’t called the offensive plays for several years.

The one thing that I would like to see him admit though is that he is a great evaluator of talent on the offensive side of the ball but needs help on the defensive side. Someone in an earlier post suggested a Chief of Defensive Football Operations position that could be filled by a Mike Nolan or some other defensive guru (maybe Marvin Lewis after he gets fired from Cincinnati?). Somebody that will be able to get the defensive talent and hold onto it (a la Spencer Larsen – though he may be starting at RB if the present trend continues).

I like the interviews I have seen with both Goodmans on the Denver website.
Great points Styg!

Outstanding post Styg. I consider myself a pretty knowledgeable Broncos fan and I didn’t realize the organization’s structure was laid out this way and that it is so different from what other teams are doing. That actually helps to improve my view of the current Denver Broncos.

Thanks for the edumacayshin! :-)

Perhaps it’s no coincidence that the last three drafts have brought a boatload of young talent onto the Broncos. Even the 2007 draft, as unsung as it is so far except for Harris’ excellent play, might eventually pay dividends. And 2006 and increasingly 2008 were bonanzas. Even our defensive picks are looking up. The defense has fallen on hard times not because our recent picks were bad but because we failed to restock the larder before that. It got long in the tooth before the new guys had a chance to mature. Even Moss, who has been much maligned recently, is looking better, and Thomas is easy to overlook because he’s just a second-year pro playing regularly on an underperforming line. I think by next year we’re going to be well on our way to our late 90s blueprint, a beilliant offense and a solid defense.

I like the long term strategy of building and sustaining a winning franchise more than any other aspect of the NFL. I have always been fascinated with the teams at each end of the spectrum, the Broncos, Steelers, Pats, and their polar opposites the Lions, Bengals, Cardinals, etc. I realize that the raiders fit this profile, but once in a while you have to throw out extreme cases, they skew the averages too much.

Breaks down the structure well.
So, in a lot of ways, Shanny has had some of his GM duties farmed out (by his won valition) to Goodman.I like the Goodman’s…read a lot of great stuff about them on the Broncos site.
I hope this now gives Shanny some extra time to focus on his staff. With this, and hopefully the Goodmans repeeating there 2008 draft with a great one in 2009, we could be looking at a dominating team.
I have to remember to keep Guru’s premise in my mind: THIS IS YEAR 2 OF A 5 YEAR REBUILD AND WE ARE AHEAD OF THE CURVE.
Thanks for keeping me focused Styg!

My thing with a majority of media and fans dont realize that Shanny inst going anywhere anytime soon. Thats what really starts to bother me. I can understand if we all think that GM Shanny has screwed the pooch in the past, but clearly this team listens to Mike. Seeing as he doesn’t call the plays but takes 100% responsibility on all the failures and gives credit to whomever it belongs to when they win, to me is what players and coaches most likely approve of. I dont have problems with BBS post, but I dont take a whole lot of stock in what Lombardi says. He may or may not be right, but as I have said on another post I dont respect his analysis right now. I think Lombardi is not being fair by not including what Denver has done in the past 3 drafts.

…and we showed immediate improvement in the draft. I think we might be misplacing the blame if we blame Shanahan. Also, BBS is dredging up an article by Lombardi that was already posted by a member and discussed. As I recall, BBS’s last contribution to the site involved calling Shanahan a cheater. He was soundly beaten back to his own site with facts. Fire Shanahan? Now way. The Colts are good with Manning, but the Broncos organization has been very good with or without Elway. The Colts weren’t any good before Manning.

Living in Indiana, I can tell you that there are (oddly enough) more highschool basketball fans than true football fans. Every game I’ve been to has had at least as many opposing fans as home team fans (never more true than when Pittsburgh cam to town for the big playoff game, and the locals sold their tickets. That wouldn’t happen in a football town).

Lombardi makes some fair points. But given his track record at MHR, I don’t buy the “friendly intent” of the posting. Just my opinion.

I love how violating the salary cap is viewed as an “accounting error.”

Recommended comment.

Rebuilding means cutting salary, drafting well, and developing talent internally. Rebuilding never means “tanking” games, but it does mean going with youth over over-priced free agents (like oh, say, Dwayne Robertson). The key element to rebuilding is drafting well, and key to that is not busting early round picks and finding late round picks that can play in your system.

The problem is Shanahan knows nothing about defense. He is utterly incompetent when it comes to game planning defense and drafting talent for it. This season marks the third defensive system Denver has implemented on defense in three years. They went from a Tampa 2 to a Bates 4-3 to a I-have-no-clue defense this year. Some games I see them in 3-4, others in 4-3.

WTF is that?

Combine this lack of sound strategy with some horrible drafts of late, and you have a bad Denver team made to look ok because their division is Division II. The 2006 and 2008 drafts were very good to Denver, but the 2005 and 2007 drafts were not good, and all the good picks made in those drafts were offensive players.

Yes, you are right. I lack credibility here on the draft. I consider that a good thing. Last I checked, my team kicks your team’s ass on the field constantly. They also draft better than yours. Makes you wonder why they beat you all the time.

Keep your “credibility” here. I’ll take the wins.

But what do the green posts mean????

I actually randomly came across this last night while unable to sleep due to adrenaline rush. I generally think Walter Football is a pretty good site for draft info and evaluations. Here is the link to the full article.

Grade given on 5/1/03: B

Good Moves: Great second round pick in MLB Terry Pierce. 4th rounder RB Quentin Griffin should be another great Denver back. The Broncos had another steal in the fourth round: DT Nick Eason. C Ben Claxton, DE Aaron Hunt and DE Clint Mitchell were all great late round picks.

Bad Moves: I did not like their first round pick, OT George Foster. #20 was just too early for him. The Broncos did not address their weak secondary at all.

Grade given on 6/8/08: Z-

June 8, 2008 Update: Denver’s first-round selection in 2003 proves how important it is to make sure that a player fits your scheme. George Foster is not a zone-blocking lineman, yet the Broncos spent the No. 20 pick on him anyway. He was traded to the Lions last year, where he was benched.

With that said, it saddens me to say that Foster was the best player Denver drafted five years ago. That’s because all of their other picks, with the exception of Nick Eason (4th round) is out of the league. Eason is a second-string defensive lineman in Pittsburgh.

A run through of the Broncos’ failures: Terry Pierce (2nd round), Quentin Griffin (4th round), Bryant McNeal (4th round), Ben Claxton (5th round), Adrian Madise (5th round), Aaron Hunt (6th round), Clint Mitchell (7th round) and Ahmaad Galloway (7th round). Is there anything lower than a Z-?

Potential 2003 Starters: OT George Foster.

(I should mention at the outset that I have never managed to catch anything in a trap, so this may not work… I am a terrible Alaskan sometimes. :( )

I feel the players and even their agents all respond better when they know who is calling the shots. Just my 2 cents.

What is interesting here is that there are several teams in the league right now that may have a problem with exactly what you mention. These are teams that have been struggling as well.

First let’s look back at the 2005 AFC Title game. Don’t worry, we won’t linger on it. How many of you were upset that Kubes was offered the headcoaching job of the Texans during the week leading up to that game? And he accepted so the players were in the wierd psychological state of playing for their coach…. yet he wasn’t their coach, he was the Texans new Head Coach… except that he wasn’t yet… It must have been confusing, at least on a subconscious level for the players.

Now look at the same situation in in Seattle, where Mora Jr. is the leader, but Holmgren hasn’t stepped out of the way yet. Dallas has a similar situation, with the added dysfunction of having JJ hovering over every decision. Another place where they are having the same issue? You guessed it, Indwipliss, where Caldwell was secured in case Dungy retired, and the general opinion is that Dungy will indeed retire before 09.

Now, these teams have all been struggling for various reasons, most notably that they aren’t scoring more points than their opponents on a regular basis.

But how much of that has to do with a head coach being more of a distraction than a leader?

And because in Indiana, HS basketball gets more love than a real sport.

Seems like he just likes to come in here occasionally to crap on Shanahan’s success and leave with his tail between his legs.

Maybe he’s realized that the Steelers D is going to shut down the hobbled Peyton and he needs somewhere where he thinks he’s superior? He certainly seems insecure about something!