What should our defense look like now we have MOST of our guys back?
Hey Crew,
Just finished reading all the Broncos articles, and it looks like the only serious injury from the weekend was to DT Josh Shaw. Thats a bummer as he has been a surprising contributor.
Dre Bly is fine, Marquand Manuel is fine and.......count our lucky stars as it looked bad, Spencer Larsen is fine with a bruised hip.
I am pretty superstitious, and I believe you stay loyal to the guys that have been perfroming for you. With this mind, I was looking to the MHR faithful to give me your views of what our defense should look like now we will probably have DJ, Nate, Champ and McCree back for next weeks game.
Our D Line wont change much with the loss of Shaw and we will probably see Tim Crowder brought into the rotation. But after that, it gets really interesting:
- Line Backing Corps: Currently we have Winborn, Larsen and Woodyard starting with Hagans rotating in. With all these guys likely ready to go against the Chiefs, and with Webster and DJ coming back, what should our make up be. My choice would be DJ at weak side, Larsen at mike and Woodyard at strong side. I would rotate Winborn in due to his ability to sub at any position, Hagans and Webster would be on ST.This combination gives us sure tacklers, play makers and a crew that can control the flow of the play. This has been the biggest thing Spencer Larsen has given us. He has been good a directing the flow of plays back into traffic. Nate Webster, and even DJ a little, did not have that ability of reading plays. DJ is a flat out play maker at weak side and Woodyard is a pit bull. As Guru said, he is under sized but an absolute athlete that has a nose for the ball and can shed attention. He is also very quick. I like this make up.
- Cornerbacks: Our starters have been Dre Bly and Josh Bell with Karl paymah at nickel. Champ comes back. I would like to see Champ and Dre with Josh Bell as nickel. BUT, here's the proviso. I think Champ coming back provides some problems. Slowik, due to injuries, has had the cornerbacks playing more aggressively and at the ball and not the player. Dre has been playing great as this is the sytem that he thrives in. If Slowik goes back to a man style game plan again, this plays at Dre's weaknesses. It also is not playing to Bell's strengths as well. They need to keep playing the ball and this will lead to better defense in the pass game, especially with Champ back. Champ's a freak....he can play any style of scheme, but I think he plays better as a ball hawker as well.
- Safetys: We have had Marquand Manuel starting with a mixture of Vernon Fox, Calvin Lowry and Josh Barrett. Now, I dont know how sold I am on Manuel or McCree. I thought Fox played OK yesterday. Lowry has been average, but not as bad as many are saying. I thought Barrett looked good yesterday and showed some good skills. Hes a rough diamond, but I like him. All this being said, I would like to see Marlon McCree and Josh Barrett as our starters. As HT and others have said, when Barrett played yesterday, they had the safetys play a normal safety role that limited mistakes and set him up to make plays. I think McCree will be playing for something. I was really happy when we picked him up, and I think he will come out fired up. He is also the most experienced of the safetys, and will be good to pair with Barrett. Couple this with the experience of Dre and Champ at cornerback, this is a great scenario to start Barrett, and also to have Bell playing at nickel.
This is what I am feeling. It is a nice blend of rookie enthusiasm and veteran experience. The rookies can help get the vets fired up, and the vets can help our rooks stay focused and keep gaining on the groound training.
I like the look of this backfield. Our D Line is getting better, and if we can be a little more creative in bringing pressure (simply having Champ and DJ back helps with this) then we could be looking OK going into the play offs.
Would love to hear your thoughts!
This is a Fan-Created Comment on MileHighReport.com. The opinion here is not necessarily shared by the editorial staff of MHR
2 recs |
31 comments
Comments
The rotation at MLB the past two weeks...
tells me that either Mario Haggens is playing very well, or Spencer Larsen is not quite ready. I’d actually like to see Haggen get a shot at full-time starter. The defense played much better during his rotation— espicially in the first half. He also tackled Farve in the backfield on the huge 4th down play in the 4th Quarter. However, I have a gut feeling that Webster will return as starter. I’d hate to see it, but I think Woodyard goes to the bench when DJ returns. He will definatly not be playing WILL, and I don’t see him moving to SAM, but you never know.
At Corner, starters are Baily and Bly, no question. I know earlier in the season, Bly was moving to the nickle and Paymah or Williams moved to #2 in passing situations. Is Slowik still doing this? It seemed to me that Bly struggled in this role, but maybe we do the same thing and let Bell play at #2 and move Bly to the nikle.
The safety position is a mess. We need to take two or three safetys in the first four rounds in April.
"Choose the sword, and you will join me. Choose the ball and you join your mother, in death. You don’t understand my words, but you must choose. So… come boy, choose life or death."
by ButteBronco on Dec 1, 2008 10:13 AM MST reply actions 0 recs
Good post boydy rec'd
I don’t think Webster wil get his job back.
and my biggest concern is that Woodyard might be taken out
other than that I am in a ‘guess we’ll see’ mood.
The best defense is a good defense!
And last week's young players. Yes!
by Mike Clark on Dec 1, 2008 10:34 AM MST reply actions 0 recs
Safety is the real concern
I haven’t liked anyone they have stuck back there, Fox played better than Lowry, but he still had some very poor recognition skills. I would like Barret to get some more reps, Lowry should be sent packing. I agree with LB, I would say DJ needs to be in there but I would keep Larsen in the middle and then bring in Woodyard in passing downs with DJ and Winborn.
"Me fail english, that unpossible" - Ralph Wiggum
by Broncoman on Dec 1, 2008 11:57 AM MST reply actions 0 recs
questions, questions, questions
i posted a similar comment in another thread about the lb’s. we need our best tacklers out there, regardless of positions. enough with the whiffs and arm-tackle attempts. as far as safety, i think he will go with mccree and manuel, for better or worse. next season, cut them both. as far as slowick, i don’t foresee any improvement in the “imagination” area. although he has basically scrapped the 3-man thing, we are just rushing the same 4 down-linemen on every play. this may be to protect the lb’s and secondary in coverage, though, i don’t know. but it’s hard to argue with the results, which were good. there will be an adjustment period with all the players coming back, and some decisions to be made, but you have to think we are better off with the starters coming back, especially champ and d.j. if this causes slowick to change what he has improved upon, then we are probably sunk. let’s hope this isn’t the case
hear me, perpetrators of bread crime, your punishment is at hand.
taste my blintzkrieg!
by davecheffy on Dec 1, 2008 1:45 PM MST reply actions 0 recs
My opinion (not prediction)
1) Webster should lose his starting spot.
2) Bailey and Bly stay at #1 and #2.
3) At safety, oddly enough, I think it doesn’t matter too much. As long as we use them correctly (as we did against the Jets), I think most of our safeties can do a good job.
"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe
by Steve Nichols on Dec 1, 2008 2:13 PM MST reply actions 0 recs
100% agreed on the opinion
and I will add that Woodyard is a great tackler who is a threat around the line of scrimmage. He would look great playing with DJ and Champ.
But here is my prediction.
1) Webster will be the starter
2)DJ will move in at at WLB and Woodyard will be benched for the rest of the season barring injuries
3) Winborn will play SAM
4) Manuel and McCree will be back to playing safety, AND we will see unexplainable safety rotations still.
I think they will play the safety posiiton with an eye more to next year.
Concision in style, precision in thought, decision in life.
by Jeremy Bolander on Dec 1, 2008 2:37 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah Styg....
But I will be monumentally P#$%ed if they play Nate Webster…..unbelievably poor choice. I have the same feeling as you, but I am hoping Shanny does this.
He rewards the young guys for turning the season around. It is guys like Hillis, Larsen and Woodyard that have brought attitude back to this team.
I hope Shanny sees this and keeps them in there knowing that he is bringing back playmakers and veterans like Champ, DJ and McCree.
If they are looking at next year at safety, they HAVE to play Barrett or at least get him in the rotation. I would love to see a Barrett Taylor Mays safety corps next year.
Nice post man and I see where you are coming from and agree….just hope we are wrong!
Those that cant coach, compete!
Failing to plan is planning to fail.
by boydy2669 on Dec 1, 2008 3:37 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
I agree with Styg…and I hate it. Neither Woodyard nor Larsen deserve to be benched. However, you have to play DJ at SAM. Winborn has played fairly well at WILL (with a few glaring exceptions) and most importantly is experienced at that position. I don’t think Webster deserves to start but I have a gut feeling that he will. I guess it’s possible we’ll see a bit of 3-4 again (I know it’s not a popular idea at MHR…but if it gets our best players on the field it might be worth a shot).
I think McCree’s return will help out at the safety position and I think Barret will still be part of the “unexplainable safety rotations”.
I hope they figure out how to keep Woodyard and Larsen on the field.
GO BRONCOS!!!
by UnarmingMermaid on Dec 1, 2008 4:42 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
I guess we'll find out if Shanny really means it
when he says that the best players will be on the field. If Webster returns as the starter after the way that Larsen has played, I’m not sure what to believe anymore.
As for Woodyard, I’d like to see him on the field, but the only way for him to play is if he takes over SAM from Winborn (who hasn’t played poorly either). I’ve read in previous posts that Woodyard might not be as good at coverage as Winborn, so maybe they rotate him out on obvious passing plays?
Agree with HT on safety, it doesn’t really matter who is back there as long as they are used correctly.
"It's all over Fat Man" - Tom Jackson to John Madden 1977 AFC Championship Game
"I love your analysis of our team. Its kinda like watching a spider monkey trying to figure out a jar of peanuts.. you know whats going on.. you know whats in there, but to actually figure it out, is just a bit beyond your mental skills..."
- Bronco Dano
by DesertBroncoFan on Dec 2, 2008 1:00 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
agreed on safety
i don’t see a major difference between most of them, but i think he goes with experience down the stretch and into the playoffs. as discussed to death, a big need in the offseason. i’d rather have lynch and abdullah back there, even now. i’m also good with larsen at mlb(if healthy enough), another offseason need. big hitter, better tackler/instincts than nate, it appears. just get the rb to the ground, or at least re-direct him. te coverage is going to be a problem, anyway, but we are toast if we can’t stop the run. i am not a fan of winborn at all, and if feasible, would like to see woodyard in his spot. he’ll get better, winborn won’t
hear me, perpetrators of bread crime, your punishment is at hand.
taste my blintzkrieg!
by davecheffy on Dec 1, 2008 3:04 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
I think you are right.
Do you think Woodyard can play the strong side linebacker position?
It all starts in the trenches HT 11/11/08
by firstfan on Dec 1, 2008 4:12 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
I want to know this too.
"Choose the sword, and you will join me. Choose the ball and you join your mother, in death. You don’t understand my words, but you must choose. So… come boy, choose life or death."
by ButteBronco on Dec 1, 2008 4:19 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
He can play strong side....
Something Guru said the other night on radio rang true with me. We need athletes out there playing. Ones that have speed and detrmination. WW is all this.
I would play him over Winborn.
DJ, Larsen and Woodyard.
One quote that DJ said in pre season rings true….he said how much he liked to play next to Niko….how he liked playing next to himas he kept everyone focused and on the same page.
I see those same qualities in Larsen. Having Larsen in there lets DJ mak plays….thats what we need in a MLB…a sure tackler that can organize the backfield and sheppard play back to Denver traffic. Larsen is that guy.
Woodyard is a flat out player and needs to be on the field…period.
This is a good line backing corps.
Those that cant coach, compete!
Failing to plan is planning to fail.
by boydy2669 on Dec 1, 2008 5:04 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Yes.
I believe Woodyard can play SAM.
"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe
by Steve Nichols on Dec 2, 2008 4:01 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Agree, Larsen has earned the right to stay in
I would wonder if the Broncos consisder keeping Woodyard in but as a safety, especially on running downs, I think he can cover a TE, may have difficult time on a slot receiver on long plays.
"Me fail english, that unpossible" - Ralph Wiggum
by Broncoman on Dec 1, 2008 5:01 PM MST up reply actions 1 recs
Broncoman....
He has the speed and instincts for sure and was drafted to Kentucky as a strong safety. He can play safety. I would be for that, and have suggested it before in a thread.
Once again: We need athletes on the field. Guys like him, Larsen and Barrett that can make athletic plays.
Those that cant coach, compete!
Failing to plan is planning to fail.
by boydy2669 on Dec 1, 2008 5:06 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Nice call HT....
Thats why if the scheme is simple as you have said before makes it a better idea to get an athlete like Josh Barrett out there. He will make some plays and make some hits.
Dave, I am with you. Our best tacklers and play makers at LB are DJ, Woodyard and Larsen. I like Winborn but the first TD by Jones was an over pursiut and lack of gap control by Winborn. I love his enthusiasm though, and he is WAY better than Webster and a great back up at all LB positions.
Those that cant coach, compete!
Failing to plan is planning to fail.
by boydy2669 on Dec 1, 2008 2:29 PM MST reply actions 0 recs
I think we have to keep Larsen in. He may be the future.
HT what do you think about slowly increasing Champ and DJs time to ensure they stay healthy going in to the play offs. With our success with back ups why not let everyone get some playing time? Of course you have the argument of guys getting in to a rhythm.
by ThorpeBroncosfan on Dec 1, 2008 2:31 PM MST reply actions 0 recs
Probably not.
Shanahan said (correctly in his presser) that we aren’t out of the woods yet. The Chargers can still come on strong, and we can’t let down our guard. I imagine we play our best players each game once it is determined they are good to go.
By the way, I like your reasoning. I just doubt Denver’s staff would go that way.
"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe
by Steve Nichols on Dec 2, 2008 4:06 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
by the way
i didn’t know where to post this, so i’ll use this thread to discuss the trenches. i commented a few weeks ago about when was the last time you saw the broncos’ win the battle in the trenches, on either side of the ball. well, they did it sunday. yes, we spread the offense out to create room inside, and yes, we stacked the line of scrimmage on running downs. but we won both of those battles in my opinion, stopping the run, and running the ball when we needed to. short-yardage defense has been outstanding the past month or so, and we converted a 3rd-2 and td on the ground! the run-blocking is improving, and the tackling on d is also. good signs for the stretch-run, and a better chance of advancing in the playoffs if this continues. great game, lots of heart and less Favre jerseys seen today in rainy n.j. priceless
hear me, perpetrators of bread crime, your punishment is at hand.
taste my blintzkrieg!
by davecheffy on Dec 1, 2008 3:14 PM MST reply actions 0 recs
Great observation Dave
I spent the entire Dallas preseason game watching the trenches and came away very pleasantly surprised. Last year Dallas flat kicked our butt. This year we held our own. I would say we split with Dallas, one of the biggest and strongest teams in the NFC, about 50-50 on both sides of the ball.
It all starts in the trenches HT 11/11/08
by firstfan on Dec 1, 2008 4:09 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Yes, our trenches are getting better, especially on D.
However, so much of the trench play on defense includes LB play, and we all know what a difference the LB changes have made. Maybe our DL was never as bad as our LB play and scheme execution made it appear.
With that in mind, . . . we all see the same thing. Our three best linebackers are DJ, WW, and Larsen. Winborn has played well enough to get some playing time giving relief. But Webster definitely should be out.
And at safety, Lowry should be out. In the short run Manuel and Fox will start, and Mcree and Barrett will work in. I agree that by the end of the year, it could be Mcree and Barrett, but it will probably be Mcree and Manuel with Fox and Barrett working in.
Champ and Bly will be back at their regular places on regular downs, but nickel will be interesting. I think Bly will move to slot with Bell taking his spot outside during nickel.
Our offensive line has also improved it’s run blocking.
by The Gun Young on Dec 1, 2008 6:39 PM MST reply actions 0 recs
Yeah Gun.....
I agree with your views for sure.
I think this O line is bcoming a beast as run blockers too.
Things are looking up in Broncoland!
Those that cant coach, compete!
Failing to plan is planning to fail.
by boydy2669 on Dec 1, 2008 8:05 PM MST reply actions 0 recs
Monday's Presser
Shanahan noted that Fox played well enough to start again and that they may have erred by not playing Barrett earlier (kudos to the MHR faithful – we’er ahead of the game again!)
Fox and Barrett to start. Sadly, they may bench either WW or Winborn, hopefully Winborn. They don’t seem to trust Larsen yet – he’s learning a second playbook and it’s slowed his progress. I’d hate to see Webster back, but the Flying Helmet is probably in our future.
Back to Champ’s preferred CB approach and folks complaining about Bly…
He doesn’t know anything but 100 percent
- Shanahan on Larsen
by Emmett Smith on Dec 1, 2008 11:13 PM MST reply actions 0 recs
Few will agree but I think Bly has stepped his game up for the team in the absence of Champ.
by ThorpeBroncosfan on Dec 2, 2008 5:59 AM MST reply actions 0 recs
He has definitely been making more plays since Champ went down.
"It's all over Fat Man" - Tom Jackson to John Madden 1977 AFC Championship Game
"I love your analysis of our team. Its kinda like watching a spider monkey trying to figure out a jar of peanuts.. you know whats going on.. you know whats in there, but to actually figure it out, is just a bit beyond your mental skills..."
- Bronco Dano
by DesertBroncoFan on Dec 2, 2008 1:05 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
He has improved a lot...
…since we have dropped our SS out of the box, and since our defensive line has stepped up. I think Bailey will also look better with the new adjustments.
"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe
by Steve Nichols on Dec 2, 2008 4:08 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Thorpe....
I agree and i think many will. The trouble with bringing Champ back is that the system he likes is a bad fit for Dre. I think Champ would actually be better as a ball hawking CB like the system we are seeing now.
Those that cant coach, compete!
Failing to plan is planning to fail.
by boydy2669 on Dec 2, 2008 6:17 AM MST reply actions 0 recs
What works for Dre, two safeties deep
wouldn’t hurt Champ. He can get away with playing off his man a little more because he reads and reacts so well. Having support deep won’t hurt him and might help if he wants to gamble a bit more. What works for Champ, playing off his man, is a personal style and is not a defensive system that impacts Bly. If Bly is actually playing better, and hasn’t simply been targeted less with lesser players subbing for Champ, there’s no reason he can’t continue to play well with Champ back in.
"In the empty spaces - lacunae, vacuums, pauses, voids, black holes - new things begin. We are born anew from the unexplored space, the badlands, the outlaw territory." - Sam Keen
by spock on Dec 2, 2008 10:49 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed.
It bears repeating…
Bly has played better since we have dropped our SS out of the box, and since our defensive line has stepped up. I think Bailey will also look better with the new adjustments.
HT, a few minutes ago.
"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe
by Steve Nichols on Dec 2, 2008 4:09 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs

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