Several Thoughts as the Broncos Move Forward
I've waited a couple of days to give my thoughts on the Carolina game, and where we stand as a team at this juncture. This isn't going to be a long post, but I hope it sparks some quality discussion. This is much less of a "hoosierteacher" post and much more of a request for your thoughts.
First, I didn't expect Denver to win this game, and they didn't. In my mind, the Panthers have a very good shot at playing for the NFC Championship, and perhaps the SB. It isn't a knock on Denver (or me as a fan) to believe they are not yet a deep playoff caliber team. I was disappointed to lose, but not depressed. If we lose to the Bills, I will not be a happy camper.
Second, I don't like the 4-4 at the pro-level. I ran it at the HS level (where the run is much more a part of the game) at times, but as I wrote last week, a 4-4 can stop the run, but it will cost you in the passing game. A lot of folks advocated Woodyard at SS. While he may have been called a SS, he actually played as more of a fourth LB. Either way, kudos to him and the defense for stopping the run (until, as I predicted, CAR got one of those giant runs near the end of the game). But "boos" all around to not having a deep second safety, particularly with Champ out of the game.
Without Champ Bailey to cover Smith, and without the "second safety" (Woodyard was playing as more of a LB than safety, and we played more of a 4-4 than a 46 Defense), we should have known that Steve Smith would gash this team. With Champ in the game, we might (might) have gotten away with it. In my Chalk Talk last week, I went so far as to write that we might have to keep a safety in the box to stop the run. But without Champ, that idea was suicide.
Third (and I'm 100% with Guru on this one), I don't understand the bone headed call that started the momentum shift away from our team. At the end of the first half, Denver decides to try a drive instead of running out the clock. I think many of us saw a turnover in the making. Before that point, Denver was hanging with Carolina, and the game was still a balanced proposition.
Fourth, the Kuper injury. I strongly believe we can plug in another guard (K-lich) and do fine. The problem we may run into is lack of coordination in some zone blocks. This wouldn't bother me so much, except that we don't have the depth and experience at RB to compensate. All in all, I don't think we will see too much drop off in OL performance.
More below the fold...
As to this week, I think we should beat the Bills. If we don't play at our best, I certainly think the Bills can get it done ("Hard work beats Talent, when Talent doesn't work hard").
Shanahan may or may not have faith in Prater. A smart coach doesn't criticize a FG kicker, because the kicker position is a lot about the player's state of mind. If Prater is on the outs, Shanahan won't say so. I think Prater may have a great future (I love those long FGs), but Shanahan will have to play it easy if Prater is going to get his mojo back.
Denver's draft needs: Denver needs a DT to help us stop the run up the middle. With that in place, Denver can drop back a safety and multiply the effectiveness of our pass defense. Denver also needs at least one dominant LB in the draft. A CB to groom over the next two years would be an asset.
On Offense, we'll need an OL for depth on the interior (Hamilton as an injury risk, Wiegmann nearing retirement, I doubt Nalen comes back), and a WR (Stokley nearing retirement).
Cutler has one major step to take before becoming a SB talent - He needs to get away from the Favre "gunslinger" mindset and let the game come to him more. He needs to move the chains instead of playing for the big play on many downs.
I wonder who the rest of the members want to see back at RB? I want Hillis, Torain, Pittman and Alridge (more power [except Alridge], with less likelihood of injury). All four were injured, but I think these guys have more durability (minus Alridge), and at least some of the injuries can be attributed to trauma and not poor conditioning. Hillis and Torain to rotate, Pittman to spell, Alridge for change of pace.
One thing I want to really push this offseason - The strength and conditioning program (as well as the training staff) needs to be audited. I would really like to see a much higher emphasis placed on stretching, flexibility, and other injury prevention methods. I'm not big on yoga, but it did help our two SB teams, and would certainly help with injury reduction. Injuries will happen, and many injuries will happen from time to time. But I'm getting pretty sick of "hammy" and groin injuries. This rate of torn and pulled muscle injuries is inexcusable.
Last, my thoughts on the Pro Bowl selection. I know everyone is dissapointed that Clady isn't in as a left tackle. He looks legendary, being a rookie and giving up so few tackles and so few penalties. Let's get this straight - Clady is the best LT playing the game. But bear with me for two thoughts. One, are you folks really going to skip out on the Pro Bowl while Cutler and Marshall are there (even at back-up, Cutler should see some time)? We should support Cutler and Marshall for being honored. Two, rookies don't often get selected. It's a tradition I don't agree with, but not a slight against the Broncos.
I'm not a big Pro Bowl fan. The game is meaningless, and the plays are more vanilla than the pre-season. Yes, the Jets are over represented (east coast bias), and yes, Clady should have been in. But just because Clady got snubbed doesn't mean I have to turn my back on Cutler and Marshall.
Ok everyone; discuss!
6 recs |
66 comments
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Comments
I have a lot of thoughts on the safety position.
Bear in mind that the safety position (particulalry Free Safety) is my favorite position on the field.
1) I’m not so sure how badly we need a safety. The reason is, without playing two safeties deep, we don’t really know how good or bad our safeties are. No safety (outside of a purposeful 46 defense) is going to look good trying to defend the entire defensive backfield.
2) There are so many good safeties in this draft (and so deep), that I wouldn’t be surprised if we get a good one in the mid-rounds anyway.
3) The need at DT and LB is so great, it overshadows everything else (in my opinion).
Here’s my biggest concern, and I can’t state it strongly enough: If we draft a wonderful prospect at safety, then require him to play in a “one safety” look, he will look terrible and we’ll all blame him instead of the system. We absolutely must fix our front seven, or else we’ll continue to drop a safety in the box and ruin whoever our free safety is (while giving up big pass plays).
"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe
by Steve Nichols on Dec 17, 2008 8:33 AM MST up reply actions 1 recs
I 2nd that
Safety isn’t the priority at all on defense. We HAVE to shore up the front 7. As we’ve discussed many times on this site, when the front 7 breaks down, the pass coverage falls apart.
by sadaraine on Dec 17, 2008 9:58 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs
I totally agree sadaraine
When we start stopping the run with our front seven our D backs will become much better. Remember, we have Carlton Powell coming back next year. He may or may not be the answer, but he is known as a run-stopper and can certainly increase the level of competition.
It all starts in the trenches HT 11/11/08
by firstfan on Dec 17, 2008 1:52 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Something has to work
Yeah…its funny how everything is related…stuffing the run gives your guys more chance to knock the ball lose = more chances at fumbles…stuffing the run makes offenses get into long yardage downs = more predictable passes = more chances for our DBs to be in the right position to defend = more Interceptions.
The thigh bone is connected to the…
by sadaraine on Dec 17, 2008 2:22 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
That makes too much sense.
"Choose the sword, and you will join me. Choose the ball and you join your mother, in death. You don’t understand my words, but you must choose. So… come boy, choose life or death."
by ButteBronco on Dec 17, 2008 10:03 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs
needy positions
We can tell, in part, which positions need help by the Broncos’ player moves during the season. And that only confirms what’s obvious to most of us.
I can’t say that the Broncos won’t draft a Safety in the 1st, the draft does not array itself in neatly ordered and homogeneous patterns that allow teams to proceed as if they were in a grocery store and can merely pick out what they need. There’s always a tension between what a team needs and what the draft contains, and maximizing the ‘utility’ of the draft requires compromising between need and available talent.
If the Broncos do elect to pick a Safety in the 1st round it won’t be because they disagree with the logic of helping the front seven. They may choose a Safety because they feel he has the potential to become an impact player and projects to provide the most help for the team, probably in both the short and long term. Having an impact player is important, and the Broncos don’t want to miss with their pick because it’s too valuable, but it’s misleading to view this choice in isolation since the utility of the draft is based on their entire draft and not just a single pick.
If the Broncos do not pick a Safety with their 1st pick it will be, among other reasons, because they don’t have to. This is a wonderful draft to choose a Safety after the 1st round, and even though I expect they’ll be choosing a Safety early it’s possible they’ll be able to find a contributer as late as the 5th. Having lots of options allows the Broncos many alternative paths to reaching their goals, so they should still be able to find a quality Safety without reaching even if their preferred choices are gone, and this is important because there is no guarantee that the top Safeties will be on the board when they pick at #1 — so they may have to look elsewhere anyways.
I think the Broncos’ Big Board may contain the following names, in no particular order, when they make their 1st pick:
William Moore – FS/SS
James Laurinaitis – MLB
B. J. Raji – DT
Peria Jerry – DT
There’s a few other names, too. And I really don’t know who’s the best choice.
by Colinski on Dec 18, 2008 11:58 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs
I have to agree
I have posted this on other posts, but this loss was not as bad as say the Raiders or Chiefs, I didn’t know if they would win, I think Carolina is a great team and going in there would be tough any way you slice it. What did bother me was after we missed the FG, it seemed that the team gave up. I don’t know if Kuper will be out, he played with a cast for much of the pre-season, so I think he will be in there if it matters. I am not of the opinion that he is easily replaceable, from what I heard, K-Lich struggled when called upon.
I agree with the assessment of the defense, they obviously were selling out for the run and Steve Smith was going to have some big play oppurtunities, I don’t know if Bailey would of made a difference, because I really think Smith is faster than Bailey. But would of been an interesting battle.
"Me fail english, that unpossible" - Ralph Wiggum
by Broncoman on Dec 17, 2008 8:41 AM MST reply actions 0 recs
Solid thoughts all
"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe
by Steve Nichols on Dec 17, 2008 9:02 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs
I wouldn't say that K-Lich struggled
He gave up the one sack on his first play because Tatum ran into him knocking him off the DE he was blocking allowing the DE to get the sack. I don’t think you can hang that totally on K-Lich.
Other than that, I don’t remember him being called out for anything (and as an offensive lineman, that’s what you want – you only get noticed when something bad happens).
"It's all over Fat Man" - Tom Jackson to John Madden 1977 AFC Championship Game
"Superman wears Peyton Hillis pajamas" - FlaBronco
by DesertBroncoFan on Dec 17, 2008 9:13 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs
They switched the feed on the internet midway 3rd quarter
So I didn’t get to see the end of the game, just going off what people had posted on K-Lich
"Me fail english, that unpossible" - Ralph Wiggum
by Broncoman on Dec 17, 2008 10:07 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs
didn't bell do that to Kuper earlier too?
argh….it was good to see Selvin back there picking up blitzes. He’s good at it.
Jason
The Hanging Curve
by poorboywilly on Dec 17, 2008 10:09 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Alridge's injury
I think was more because he was used as the feature running back in the last preseason game against the Cardinals. I know he broke something in his foot and from personal experience I know that it is easy to get a stress fracture in the metatarsals if you do a lot of running without properly working up to it.
I think it was just a matter of him not getting all the reps during practice and being ready to go for a full game, not a matter of durability.
I would love to see him as in the rotation you spelled out above and think that in this role he will prove to be more durable as he won’t be expected to shoulder the load for the entire game, just as the change of pace back for 8-10 carries a game.
"It's all over Fat Man" - Tom Jackson to John Madden 1977 AFC Championship Game
"Superman wears Peyton Hillis pajamas" - FlaBronco
by DesertBroncoFan on Dec 17, 2008 9:23 AM MST reply actions 0 recs
all ready?
before the half, it took shanny about 25 seconds to call the timeout i was screaming for. when we got the ball back, i figured we would just take a knee, with the field position and clock now not in our favor. then, a run call? wow, that is really poor. go for it, or don’t, but decide quickly already.
definitely on board with the power running game, as many of you know. your lineup is pretty much what i want, though the small back position is probably up in the air. we need pile-movers and tackle-breakers more than the breakaway threat, which probably isn’t on the roster, anyway.
the injury question i brought up in another post. seriously, this is not pure chance and misfortune at work here. we’re dropping like flies out there 2 years in a row. this could be a lack of size/strength, combined with the risky players we get at low cost/draft position. but obviously, this is something that needs to be looked at. our schedule next season is looking injury-filled with this roster. smash-mouth teams galore. something must be addressed, here.
i think prater will be fine, and cutler does need to take the checkdowns for first-downs if they are there. but it looked like marshall and royal were completely covered in this game, and the te’s were invisible. stokely? how the hell did they cover everyone? the front four for carolina did a great job, but it seems like jay was looking for someone to get open. is their back 7 just that good?
finally, the mandatory safety-in-the-box question. i hope it’s a non-issue next season, but for the playoff run, with rookies and backups, it appears shanny is going to stay with the 4-4. my question is are we in a 4-4 on passing downs, and does ww drop into coverage if we are. if so, i don’t see a problem with it unless someone bites on a play-action, and the ability for the front 7 to stop the run is questionable this year. can larsen help with this when he is healthy, or do we just need d.j. and champ to get on the field? wow, this season is really full of surprises and weekly intrigue, isn’t it? i think we all have more questions than answers at this point, but i do like the fact that ww will be on the field when/if d.j. returns. shanny said he will be playing both positions, so what 2 alignments is he talking about? or is it going to be a call on ww’s part to play 1 or the other on a given play(rush/drop)? interesting
hear me, perpetrators of bread crime, your punishment is at hand.
taste my blintzkrieg!
by davecheffy on Dec 17, 2008 9:39 AM MST reply actions 0 recs
Jay was rattled a little.
Marshall mentioned it, then backed off as a team player should, but there is not way they had all our receivers covered. They mixed up coverages and confused Jay. Plus they pressured him, so he felt like he had to hurry. I saw a replay where he started out looking at Graham, but the linebacker started out covering him, and everyone else seemed to be in a man to man at first, so Jay quickly moved to looking at a second and third receiver, but then got sacked. However, if you looked past the initial defensive reaction what I saw was a team playing a match up zone, where defensive players start out tight on a receiver until the receiver moves out of their zone, then the receiver comes free for a period until someone else picks them up. The problem is that Jay was looking off the short receivers too quick, then he was getting pressured before he could find his deeper more favorite receivers opening up. This is a tough coverage to read, as teams will mix up the zones and rotations, while they also mix up some zone blitz. This is the defensive the Steelers run well.
The key is a QB has to plan to dink and dunk quickly by picking out the best initial mis-match and then sticking on that receiver until he opens up in the short zone. Then at some point the safeties start cheating up to jump a short receiver who opens up, and that is when the offense has to be ready to go deep. It is a chess match, but a good game plan and smart experienced QB will beat it. As an offense you also don’t want too many routes to crowd things. Usually four routes (2 deep and 2 short) spread things out better and make it harder for defenders to jump other routes. Plus the extra blocker in (back or TE) helps out with the zone dog.
I have not doubt we would play a lot better if we played the Panthers again. Plus if we had Champ, and a running game (like Hillis) I believe we could actually beat them. But without them Carolina at home was too good.
by The Gun Young on Dec 17, 2008 6:46 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Cutler said so much
On “Jay Cutler Live” (For those of you not in the Denver area, every Monday night Jay does a show at Applebee’s with local sports newscasters that is broadcast on local TV…way cool. They always have one guest…this wee was Barrett), Jay said he got confused by the coverages Carolina was doing.
The good thing about this is that it is yet another learning opportunity for Jay. He’s seen something new…next time he sees it it won’t be new and he will know how to adjust.
I don’t want breakaway speed. I want break-some-poor-fool-as-I-bowl-you-over power getting 6 yards off a play that should have been stopped for 2 at most.
by sadaraine on Dec 18, 2008 9:39 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Fantastic analysis
HT, I think you have just snapped as accurate as possible picture of the status of the Broncos. I couldn’t agree more particularly in regard to RB. We need to find some way to keep Aldridge on the team and keep him healthy. He is just one of those guys that stood out to me in training camp. He is a full step faster than anyone else and still has power and quickness. I agree completely with your draft recommendations. Getting that one dominant DT will transform our entire defense and adding a MLB that will make opposing Defensive Coordinators scheme around him will turn our defense into a squad to be feared. This entire post is excellent and highly recommended.
It all starts in the trenches HT 11/11/08
by firstfan on Dec 17, 2008 9:53 AM MST reply actions 0 recs
Prater
My opinion is that Prater is our man. That is “IF” he can shake this funk he is in next year. I don’t care if he still misses a few this season, but next season he needs to normalize his kicking. If he doesn’t show improvement next season then we need a change.
by sadaraine on Dec 17, 2008 10:05 AM MST reply actions 0 recs
I like HT's yoga idea.
I don’t think strength is the problem here. Tuten (sp?) is an evil genius when it comes to devising ways to improve strength and endurance. But flexibility is an important key to avoiding injury. It allows the body to make those micro-adjustments during contact that turn a severe injury into a minor one and a minor one into, dare I say it, a booboo.
I don’t know of any sport where flexibility not only lowered injury numbers but also improved athletic performance. To borrow an example from another field, one of the big reasons steel is superior to iron is its flexibility. I suspect that might be true of the human body as well.
.
If this be Hell, let us make the most of it!
by Trinidad Jack on Dec 17, 2008 10:06 AM MST reply actions 0 recs
Something definatly needs to be done.
Like HT, I am getting annoyed with the amount of injuries that can be prevented if the players are more flexable. I mean don’t they stretch enough when they practice everyday. I hope the Broncos come up with something to at least diminish some of these groin and hamstring injuries.
"It doesn't dissipate" ~ Mike Shanahan
Cutler's 4th qtr/OT game winning drives: 9
by weazel on Dec 17, 2008 12:05 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Defense
I’m totally with you HT. DT is a MUST. I really like the idea of grabbing Haynesworth with a contract that pays big bucks for performance. That is if he doesn’t stay with the Titans.
Even if we do bring in a FA DT, we need to draft another for development and cut some of the cruft of underachievers we have now.
by sadaraine on Dec 17, 2008 10:07 AM MST reply actions 0 recs
What a despicable excuse for a human being -- stomped another young man in a game.
and he’s lucky he is not in jail. Not worthy of being a Bronco. Let’s draft a giant freak of nature mammoth two-gap DT (or two) to go in rotation with Robertson, Thomas, and the veterans perhaps one of the ones that have been proposed, like Raji or Brace from BC or others that HT has looked into.
By the by, Scott Wright, Guru’s friend who I hope will do MHR radio again this yr., now has Broncos drafting safety Moore from Mizzou in round 1. As much as I like Moore’s potential (think Atwater and Smith!), shouldn’t Donks draft DT, MLB and FS (in order of priority)? Any new thoughts out there on DT’s in the draft?
"I told him (Montrae), don't worry, you'll pass out before you die" -- Rick Tuten
by littletinybroncos on Dec 17, 2008 11:34 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Don't forget about Calton Powell
everyone seems to be pretty high on him coming back from his Achilles injury.
"It's all over Fat Man" - Tom Jackson to John Madden 1977 AFC Championship Game
"Superman wears Peyton Hillis pajamas" - FlaBronco
by DesertBroncoFan on Dec 17, 2008 11:42 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Right on! One crazy DT in the draft and we will have good pieces to work with!
One crazy DT in the draft and we will have good pieces to work with, especially if Powell comes along!
"I told him (Montrae), don't worry, you'll pass out before you die" -- Rick Tuten
by littletinybroncos on Dec 17, 2008 11:44 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Bear in mind...
…that the learning curve for a DT is pretty steep, and next year Powell will only be starting his first year. He may not get the position down until 2011.
"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe
by Steve Nichols on Dec 17, 2008 7:11 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm with you
Except those types of DTs don’t exactly grow on trees. Haynesworth has gotten his collective crap together since then. His upside matches our weakness perfectly which makes him worth the risk to me. We’ve been drafting D-Linemen and they are floundering.
by sadaraine on Dec 17, 2008 2:25 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Great point...
Marcus Thomas supposedly had about as much upside as any tackle in the draft two years ago. Has he been an impact player? Serviceable, but clearly hasn’t solved the issue for us at DT…
"You're slow. You're not a running back, and you're not a running back for a reason."
The Shanahan
by Broncs Cheer on Dec 17, 2008 2:51 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Would Marcus Thomas start for another team?
How good is he?
by RiG on Dec 17, 2008 6:26 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
I agree we need 2 gappers like Nose tackles.
Then Shanny and Slowik will mix in 3-4 with the 4-3, we will then get all our good young LBs on the field, and we will get more pass pressure also. But they can’t make the switch in the middle of a season, like this year. That was stupid. They have to draft and acquire the personnel, and then practice all off season and during training camp.
I believe Shanny could trade some players (Boss, Webster, etc.) and a lot of lower picks to get a dominant nose tackle.
by The Gun Young on Dec 17, 2008 6:54 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Cutler and the Offense
I think these two go together…We need another receiver to get ready to replace Stoke. We need depth at the Oline for our two older guys.
The offense needs to get more deadly…and by that I mean design stuff to take advantage of situations…right now if the run game doesn’t work everyone drops coverage and waits for the mistake from Jay…design more short-mid range plays that don’t even go that deep and get 8 yards a pop.
by sadaraine on Dec 17, 2008 10:10 AM MST reply actions 0 recs
We need an RB that can shake Cutler out of his game slumps
when it isnt working out we need an rb able to carry the ball producing first down on 1-2 runs like Hillis
by RiG on Dec 17, 2008 6:40 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
RB
Agree with HT here…Hillis (he’s our RB future I think…Shanny mentioned TE possibly for him, but forget that…give that boy the rock!!!), Torain, Pittman, [insert change of pace back here].
I don’t care if our 4th is Aldrige, Bell, or Young…they all are easily tackled. Whoever does best in the off-season is good by me.
by sadaraine on Dec 17, 2008 10:12 AM MST reply actions 0 recs
As far as RB
I would like to see a rotation of Torain, Hillis, and Alridge, I think that gives you a unique set of options, with Hillis playing FB when Torain and Alridge are in at RB. I am somewhat worried that Torain may be injury prone. Pittman I like his heart, but honestly he doesn’t give you anything special. I would love to see us look at a RB in the 3rd to 4th round, just for insurance.
"Me fail english, that unpossible" - Ralph Wiggum
by Broncoman on Dec 17, 2008 10:12 AM MST reply actions 0 recs
Disagree with Pittman
He was wonderfully solid when he was on the field this year.
He picks up short yards, picks up blitzes well, catches out of the back-field. I really really liked him. he can play for us as long as he wants to IMMHO.
by sadaraine on Dec 17, 2008 10:15 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs
He's not bad, but IMO he isn't special
From what I saw he doesn’t have breakway speed and wears down quickly and takes too many big time hits, like I said, I like his heart and he is a good vetren, but I rather have the young guys in there that can do what he does and more. I expect that Hillis and Torain will be fine on the blitz pick ups next year, Hillis is a far better weapon catching the ball, he has terrifc hands, and all of them have more speed than Pittman. To me all Pittman was is experienced, but now all of those guys will have a year under their belts and a full offseason.
"Me fail english, that unpossible" - Ralph Wiggum
by Broncoman on Dec 17, 2008 12:29 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
I didn't see breakaway speed from Hillis or Torain
That’s not the type of game they bring. I agree that Pittman isn’t a solution for every down. But he is a superb back-up. If Hillis gets winded, Pittman can step in and deliver for a few plays till Hillis gets his breath back.
by sadaraine on Dec 17, 2008 2:27 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Oh yeah
I don’t want breakaway speed.
I want break-some-poor-fool-as-I-bowl-you-over power getting 6 yards off a play that should have been stopped for 2 at most.
by sadaraine on Dec 17, 2008 2:28 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Love it
I think that should be my sig :P
by sadaraine on Dec 17, 2008 2:28 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Cutler is the speed RB
in a figure of speech
by RiG on Dec 17, 2008 6:31 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
3rd or 4th round RB for insurance?
if we get a 3rd or 4th round RB he better be damn good!
given our RB findings…
by RiG on Dec 17, 2008 6:28 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
I have so much to say about the RB situation...
but promised myself I’d wait for the season to end before getting into it….
-TSG
SBNation's Denver Broncos Blogger
MileHighReport
Questions, Comments...E-Mail Me!
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by John Bena on Dec 17, 2008 10:15 AM MST reply actions 0 recs
dude...come on now...give us something...
There is only One Moment—this moment—the Eternal Moment of Now
by sirsam on Dec 17, 2008 1:53 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
I think Guru is teasing us
I feel like a teenager on a date.
It all starts in the trenches HT 11/11/08
by firstfan on Dec 17, 2008 2:08 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
For RB
I think Hillis earned the chance to start (at RB). I think when he returns to health, he deserves to be declared next years starter. But of course, competition is where the Broncos RB position shines. Healthy Torain would be nice (although I’m worried, he was injured for half the season, first game back goes on IR). Pitman can provide back up at FB too, but with his age I could take or leave him. I really like Selvin still, but I don’t know that we can trust him. If he finishes out the season healthy, maybe. PJ Pope also has shown me (in what little we have seen of him) that perhaps he can be the last guy in the competition, but I think we keep Alridge to have that “scatback” type, he could return kickoffs too (I leave Royal on punts).
I was unable to watch the game, but I did record it. When I turned it on, I was pretty excited to hear Woodyard at SS: he ran a 4.51 at the combine, is a sure tackler, and very aggressive player. What does Shanny have to lose against a SB caliber team in a game no-one expects us to win? With a defense that everyone expects to be smashed on the ground? Might as well see if it works.
Unfortunately, I soon realized that Woodyard was simply playing as a 4th linebacker, and Barret, 25 yards from the line of scrimmage, was left on his own (leaving the cornerbacks almost on their own), and I was highly disappointed. Having started Smith on my fantasy team, I was however optimistic on that front. And he did not disappoint.
Jason
The Hanging Curve
by poorboywilly on Dec 17, 2008 10:22 AM MST reply actions 0 recs
I agree on RB HT...
BUT I would like to add a first day draft pick to that stable. If we only keep four backs, then I’d replace Pittman. Much like you correctly point out that a stout front seven will help out the safeties, a durable all-around back would contribute greatly to a sustained running attack that will help Jay tremendously, but also need our defense off the field when protecting leads (which I think we will be doing a lot of in 2009). It must be a first day guy. No more late rounders (Hillis and TD are the exception that prove the rule), and undrafted guys.
Hillis is a unique talent that can catch out of the backfield better than anyone I have ever seen over a five game stretch, I am very interested to see what Shanny has up his sleeves with this “tiger” position.
As for Torrian, are you guys going to put your faith in a guy that has never stayed healthy at any level? Man, if you take Hillis out of the pure running-back position and he excels at the tiger (Tiger Style.. ha.. Tiger Style), then that leaves us with Torrain and Pittman as feature backs. Both can be great assets, for sure. However, one guy can’t stay healthy and one guy is a member of AARP. I’m sorry, but if we’re a team that’s on the verge of something special and we are injuries to RT & MP away from raiding cell phone booths at the Cherry Creek mall, I’m terrified!!
"Choose the sword, and you will join me. Choose the ball and you join your mother, in death. You don’t understand my words, but you must choose. So… come boy, choose life or death."
by ButteBronco on Dec 17, 2008 10:23 AM MST reply actions 0 recs
DT through Free Agency
I feel that the Broncos should go through Free Agency to get a DT since the DT learning curve is about 3 years. I am not sure about Haynesworth with his “character” issues however.
Victor Frankl:
What man actually needs is not a tensionless state but rather the striving and struggling for some goal worthy of him. What he needs is not the discharge of tension at any cost, but the call of a potential meaning waiting to be fulfilled by him.
Everything can be taken from a man but one thing: the last of the human freedoms – to choose one’s attitude in any given set of circumstances, to choose one’s own way.
by wyoeng on Dec 17, 2008 10:45 AM MST reply actions 0 recs
I agree with Haynesworth
Seems like he is only motivated by getting a contract, my big concern is that if we sign him to a long term deal that he will regress to his old half ass ways. I think the Titans realize that, and that is why they haven’t signed him to a long term deal. I understand the growth issue with DT, but I really think the crop of FA DT that would be worth anything is rather slim, since most teams are going to sign the good ones to long term deals. I was really surprised the Jenkins, Stroud, and Rogers actually got traded last season.
"Me fail english, that unpossible" - Ralph Wiggum
by Broncoman on Dec 17, 2008 12:33 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
How about a incentive based contract
Make him work for his intrinsic rewards
by RiG on Dec 17, 2008 6:39 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm curious to find out about Hillis's Tiger position
It sounds like it could be a combination RB, TE, H-Back, FB type position.
When he is in there, he could be getting the ball on a handoff, pitch or swing pass, lead block for another RB, line up on the line and pass protect or go out in the flat. You never know where he is going to be coming from, but he will be coming!
After that, I like Train as the starting RB (after seeing what he did in the first half against Cleveland, I was getting that TD/Mike Anderson/Olandis Gary vibe). My biggest concern is of course his injuries (his ACL injury could have him out through training camp at least, though I haven’t heard when they expect him back – those things take a while to heal and rehab).
For the “change of pace” back, I like what I saw in Alridge in the preseason finale against the Cardinals. All that game proved was that he was not an every down back, which wasn’t too surprising with his size. But I think he should be good for a few long carries after the defense has been pounded by Hillis and Train for most of the game
"It's all over Fat Man" - Tom Jackson to John Madden 1977 AFC Championship Game
"Superman wears Peyton Hillis pajamas" - FlaBronco
by DesertBroncoFan on Dec 17, 2008 11:08 AM MST reply actions 0 recs
Hillis is for sure, where is not.
Hillis will be on the field almost all the time next year, the only question is where. I think it will depend on Torrain, because I think Shanny would prefer a healthy high performing Torain at TB, Hillis at FB &H-Back & and to spell Torrain at TB.
by The Gun Young on Dec 17, 2008 6:59 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Hoosierteacher,
That’s a great poing about not turning your back on Cutler and Marshall because Clady got snubbed. Clady has a lot of years in Hawaii in his future…I’m just happy that the Broncos will be represented at some key positions.
by PosterNutbag on Dec 17, 2008 11:50 AM MST reply actions 0 recs
running backs
I think Hoosierteacher is being unfair when he kept saying Aldridge(injury prone). This kid was a workhorse in college and was never really injured. I dont think he was injured all that bad at the beginning of the season. Shanny decided to put him on IR because we had too many backs at the beginning of the season. I also think they put him on IR because they knew he would not clear waivers and they would lose him to another team. Too bad because we could use him right now.
I think our RB rotation next year will be Hillis, Torain, & Aldridge. I think they will use Hillis as more of a hybrid H-back position and move him around a lot. This means Torain and Aldridge will get most of the carries. I have watched aldridge on youtube( i know not the most reliable source) and i rewatched the final preseason game and this kid is a good RB. Yes he has great speed but when he need to lower his shoulder for the extra coulple yards he does. He is just not a speed back, he also runs with some power. Now i do not think he is an everydown back but he could easily get 10-15 touches a game. I really think Torain(if he stays healthy) will step up and be our main RB next year. I also think if we are sitting in the draft in the first or second round and the best player availble is a RB then we should take one. We should not reach for a defensive player if they are not the best player available.
by gnarlybroncodude on Dec 17, 2008 12:19 PM MST reply actions 0 recs
My only point on Alridge...
…is that he is more of a threat to be injured than the others. All of them have gotten hurt this season, but Aldridge is less built to take the punishment. I’d still keep him. (BTW, no “d” after the “l” in Alridge. I keep doing it, and have to keep correcting myself. I just id it again in this comment). : )
"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe
by Steve Nichols on Dec 17, 2008 7:03 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Throwing this out
Draft a second or third round back like Foster of Tennesee. Classic size and good hands. Torain could sub him. Boyd could sub both of them.
Draft an appropriate fullback sub for Hillis in the late round or FA. There are a few jumbo receiving fullbacks Easy pickins’ My sleeper is Brock Bolen, Louisville 240 lbs., scores often, lots of catches w/ good yds. per. Bring Pittman to camp.
Lump together our speedsters: Young, Bell, Aldridge and Hall.
Cut one from first group, one from second group and two from third group.
This way, Shanny does not have to try to devise a brand new running game to fit personnel limitations every time a back gets nicked.
We give up a six or one of our sevens for Robertson.
Fun fact: We got Hillis with the Plummer trade pick and Williams for Lelie.
I’d rather have Lelie, a decent offensive contributor, and who seems to have matured (read been humbled) than Williams who appears to have gone south even though there was a dire need at his position.
"I told him (Montrae), don't worry, you'll pass out before you die" -- Rick Tuten
by littletinybroncos on Dec 17, 2008 12:36 PM MST reply actions 0 recs
I hope you are talking Jack and not DJ
You would rather have Lelie, whose production the last two seasons could each be eclipsed by an elite receiver in a single game?
Whose great accomplishment since leaving Denver is 430 yards and a touchdown with Atlana in 2006?
Jason
The Hanging Curve
by poorboywilly on Dec 17, 2008 4:23 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Injury Prevention
Although Yoga is an excellent activity, it is only part of an entire injury prevention routine. I would love to see the medical staff encorporate preventative chiropractic care, therapeutic massage and much more strigent nutritional programs. These “avoidable injuries” need to be addressed as few NFL teams have suffered the downtime that the broncos have.
by Future Bronco DC on Dec 17, 2008 12:40 PM MST reply actions 0 recs
Good observations Future Bronco
It all starts in the trenches HT 11/11/08
by firstfan on Dec 17, 2008 2:22 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Play Calling
I thought the pitch to Selvin at the end of the half was a great idea. Shanahan took the interception out of play against a pass protection defense, and got the ball to Selvin in open space. Selvin could have broken off a big run with his elusiveness / speed, and scored a touchdown or ended up in field goal range. He just blew it by fumbling the ball. He needs to go down in that situation instead of taking the hit. These guys are coached situational plays, and at that time, once the big play was not there, the #1 priority is holding on to the ball, and Selvin knows that.
I appreciate our team at least taking the chance. It only takes one big play to make a difference, and taking a knee never results in a big play. I don’t want our coaches calling offensive plays based on the bad things that can happen. That doesn’t show confidence in your players, and we don’t have a strong enough defense to accomplish anything with that mindset. If an aggressive play doesn’t work, that just shows that our offense is not championship caliber yet…but they’ll never become that caliber if they’re not pushed to succeed in all situations.
And it’s never a coaches fault when a player fumbles…I wish everyone could stop blaming play-calling for turnovers.
by HACK10 on Dec 17, 2008 1:35 PM MST reply actions 0 recs
well said!
"You're slow. You're not a running back, and you're not a running back for a reason."
The Shanahan
by Broncs Cheer on Dec 17, 2008 2:53 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
The one issue with that theory
By the time Selvin would have gotten in FG range and tackled, I am guessing that we would of been out of time, so unless he scores a TD, that run would of been a waste.
"Me fail english, that unpossible" - Ralph Wiggum
by Broncoman on Dec 17, 2008 3:07 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Normally I would say yes you are right about that call,
but considering this was Selvin’s first game action in a long time, it was too risky a call for that player at that time. He should have used Tatum for that call.
The play call I was more upset with was the decision in the third quarter to go for a 48 yard FG instead of going for it on fourth down. We were already down by 17 points, and we know Prater has been shaky. We needed to get some offensive momentum there. To me that was when the game was over.
by The Gun Young on Dec 17, 2008 7:03 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
My wife does Yoga. She swears by it. Every time one of our guys goes down she says they should be doing Yoga.
So maybe your are on to something HT. I don’t care if it’s yoga, voodoo, or River Dancing something needs to be done.
I agree w/ HT on backs. I think we can get Pittman for cheap and he is much value added as a back-up or short yardage guy.
I had a feeling before the Carolina game that they would win they are a great team. Their lines are very solid. What bothers me is how we lost. Seemed to have no heart and poor game planning, as coach said.
Thanks for the Great Post HT, as usual you have given us much to think about.
by ThorpeBroncosfan on Dec 17, 2008 1:57 PM MST reply actions 0 recs
My thoughts...
We need a guy like selvin, Tatum, Hall Hillis at RB who can produce first downs every 1-2 plays
This will allow us to do play action bootlegs
Also it will help Cutler out when he is firing into quadruple, fiffiple coverage and is trying to
Quarter and Penny the defense instead of nickel and dime, when this happens we will be
able to bring our RB in able to get first down consistently and weaken the enemy’s pass protection
We need a stud DT
If we could get Haynesworth in such a way where we could keep him motivated such as incentive based contracts that might not be to bad. Also I like powell or another player in the draft like powell i think he is a good type to draft
in the draft (not sure about the # of picks)
i think will look something like this
1MLB
2SAFTEY
3DT
4OL
5WR
5CB
6OLB
7RB
And +1 to HACK10 for his comments on the 2qtr fumble
though in real important games i wouldnt chance it given our turnover rate but with an SB caliber team (if we had/have one) we should be able to run that play
by RiG on Dec 17, 2008 7:07 PM MST reply actions 0 recs
I was wrong in picking this game as a victory.
I had predicted we would win this game for a fourth road victory in a row. And it usually takes me a few days to forget about the disappointment of a loss, and to then get excited about the next game. So here I am back today. I wish I would have been right about this victory, like I was about Atlanta and the Jets, but come to think of it I have never picked the Broncos to lose, cause there is always a chance -"That is why they play the games!’
I don’t feel as bad about it now though, cause I agree the Panthers are a top 4 team, and I don’ think we could have beat them with our current personnel. I think if we had Hillis to provide a decent run game and to keep their defense honest, then Jay could have scored a of points on them. And if we had a healthy Champ, we could have slowed down their passing game. Then the 8 man in the box 4-4 might have been a success.
by The Gun Young on Dec 17, 2008 7:10 PM MST reply actions 0 recs

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