A Quick Post Mortem (Broncos / Bills '08)

First, I agree with the sentiments expressed by Guru. I am a Broncos fan through and through, and refuse to be a bandwagon fan that is "finished" when this team blows a game. We improved over last year, have a strong, core group of youth, and remain on the precipice of the playoffs. Reading many of the stories in the pre-season, most of us predicted a record close to 10-6 and a borderline shot at the playoffs.
And as Guru points out, the winner of this next game will clearly deserve the playoff spot, and the loser clearly won't.
Briefly (because dwelling on negatives get us nowhere), I'm going to lay out the problems I saw in play calling.
Both TedBartlett and I have written stories (here and here) that spelled out what we thought needed to be done to win the Bills game. In the 1st quarter, Denver took our advice. They ran the ball, and they ran it to the edges where they could take advantage of slower DEs and OLBs. Pope and even Royal had incredible gains. At the end of the first quarter, Denver had scored twice, and the Bills were in negative yardage in both running and passing. Denver then abandoned the run for most of the rest of the game, allowing the Cover Two of the Bills to focus on the pass. That's when things started going down the hill.
Next, Denver's aggressive play calling at the end of the half reminded me of the last time Denver made a foolish decision near the end of the half. You'll recall Denver not running out the clock, and handing the ball to the other team in the very recent past. This week, Denver expected their FG kicker to make a terribly long FG kick right at the end of the half. Worse, Denver made this decision with a lead! Denver gave up horrific field position, which should have almost promised the Bills a FG. The Bills took advantage, and scored a TD.
Note how well the TEs played. Again, several of the great members of the MHR Think Tank advocated using the TEs in the seams against a Cover Two that doesn't resemble a Tampa 2 very much. Graham and Scheff had a field day. Getting desperate towards the end of the game, Cutler gave up on dinking short passes to the seams (which picked up big yards) and relied on the WRs, who were the targets of the Cover Two. I wasn't in touch with Styg during the game, but I felt as if we were telepathicaly on the same wavelength - "Here comes the interception".
One odd thing to consider: Considering how well we did in the first few drives, is it likely that Shanahan scripted the first several plays (which worked), while the pass happy plays afterward (which didn't work) were the product of our offensive coordinator? No intrigue here, I think we know the answer. Is anyone interested in starting a movement to get Shanahan to go back to playcalling?
My advice? Get your frustrations out here. Get them behind you. The team needs us as they move ahead, and the SD game will be a beauty. I feel neither team has a shot at a deep playoff run, so this game is our Super Bowl. It will be in prime time, and against a team that seems to me to be fighting the Raiders for the new title of "worthy arch enemy".
I for one have no time for frustrations of my own. I am grateful for this Christmas season, my family, my MHR family, and the Broncos (win or lose). I will spend this week serving my community in law enforcement, serving my family, and serving each of you at MHR. I plan to put the Bills game to rest, and to focus on what matters as a football fan...
Beating SD. And doing it with overwhelming force.
Comments
Nice post Ht and in the spirit of the season I hope Shanny sees the writing on the wall and is humbled by it:
1/ We are greatly lacking and being let down HUGELY by our co-ordianators on both sides of the ball. Slowik is not a DC and should never have been one. On the offensive sign, he needs to blow up the structure and start again fro the sake of the team and young coaches like Jeremy Bates.
2/ Jay Cutler needs A LOT of work. I am NOT a fan of Phillip Rivers, I despise him, but he played like a Pro Bowl QB putting up great numbers and making clutch plays. Jay tried, but made bad decisions and missed open guys 3 times for TD’s. I am not sure if Jay hates losing enough, and I am wondering whether his days of being in a losing culture at Vandy are spilling over to here.
Shanahan needs to do a couple of things. For next season, him and Pat Bowlen need to hire top flight DC and OC, and Shanny needs not t feel threatened by it. The talent that this team has needs to be nurtured by the best, not hung out to dry by journeymen coaches and young coaches that need time and a system to develop in.
Yes, we have personnel problems, we have injuries, but we have thrown away 4 games, and in my heart of hearts, the majority of the blame needs to be given squarely to the coaching staff.
I wil be a Broncos fan thru and thru, but I dont feel confident about SD. I am worried that not making the playoffs will set this team back psychologically 2 years, and start a choking culture.
Anyway, Happy Holidays to all, and GO BRONCOS!
Those that cant coach, compete!
Failing to plan is planning to fail.
by boydy2669 on
Dec 22, 2008 6:02 AM MST
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To be fair to Jay Boydy...
Phillis has been in the league two years longer than Jay, but I agree Jay needs a lot of work. However, I think most of it is simply playing in playoff-like, pressure-filled games. He had one yesterday and missed a few throws, but played with a lot of grit. He’ll get there. We all need to take it easy a little bit.
"Choose the sword, and you will join me. Choose the ball and you join your mother, in death. You don’t understand my words, but you must choose. So… come boy, choose life or death."
by ButteBronco on
Dec 22, 2008 6:49 AM MST
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Hey Butte....
I think I am being pretty fair with Jay. He played with guts, no doubt, but so did Jake Plummer, Steve Buerlein and a litany of other QB’s we have had here in Denver. That’s definitely not the problem……it was never a problem at Vandy or wont be in the future.
My point is that in situations like yesterday, when we have players open, he needs to make those throws. Rivers did yesterday and Cutler did not. Jay is still learning, I get that, but those throws need to be made.
I think next weeks game will be the BIGGEST of his career, and could be a determining factor in how he develops from here on out.
I am hoping he comes out, plays lights out and gets it done.
My hope is that we take in a FB into this game, acativate a bruiser like Cory Boyd and go in guns a blazing.
We will see.
Cutler has it all, but games like yesterdays are ones he needs to leave no doubt. I dont think he did that yesterday when he really needed to.
I will remain one of his biggest fans, but I am just calling like I see it.
I really want to see him succeed next week.
Happy Holidays Butte and enjoy it with your closest my friend!!!
Those that cant coach, compete!
Failing to plan is planning to fail.
by boydy2669 on
Dec 22, 2008 7:28 AM MST
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Right on Boydy,
I guess my point between Rivers and Cutler is that Rivers has played in more pressure situations in his young career than Jay. Last year surrounded by some of the best talent in the league, Rivers experienced a playoff run. Thus, he knows how to handle pressure. In addition, you mentioned Vandy. There again, no real pressure situations. They were an underdog in every game and he could go out there and sling it. Now, there were a lot of positives that come from that particular experience, but one of the downsides is the lack of a pressure game. Those guys that played at big-time college programs with huge expectations each and every week have an edge on Jay in this specific regard.
I grew up playing golf and love the sport to this day. One of the things you hear about a lot during the majors is the physiological change the body goes through when under pressure. An athlete needs to learn how to play in those conditions and control his or her emotions. One of the reasons Tiger is so great, is his experience in pressure situations.
Rivers has that experience and Jay is getting it right now to some extent. There is no doubt in my mind that he was tight yesterday in the fourth quarter, and he should be better for it down the road. My hope for this year’s young team, and Jay in particular, was a playoff spot. Even if they got in and were smoked in the first round, I the experience will pay huge dividends going forward…
Oh and happy holidays to you too my friend. I have so much to be thankful for right now that it’s helping me get over yesterday’s game in a hurry!
"Choose the sword, and you will join me. Choose the ball and you join your mother, in death. You don’t understand my words, but you must choose. So… come boy, choose life or death."
by ButteBronco on
Dec 22, 2008 9:38 AM MST
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Exactly man...
I am a mad golfer too, and actually have some my athletes take it up as it teaches pre-run routines, visualization and performance triggers.
Living in the mountains, I have a small golf season, but man I love it.
Yep, plenty to be thnakful for too. A set of 4 year old twins and a beautiful wife that felt sorry enough for me that she married me. The sun shines a dog’s arse once in while, eh????
Have a good one.
I feel strangely calm and confident heading into San Diego. Could be one of the greatest experiences for our team, and Jay Cutler’s Waterloo.
GO BRONCOS!
Those that cant coach, compete!
Failing to plan is planning to fail.
by boydy2669 on
Dec 22, 2008 10:40 AM MST
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Here are a couple of fun points...
The Broncos racked up 538 yards of total offense to Buffalo’s 275 yards. That is an enormous disparity. Also, Brett Kern never punted once yesterday, which is very rare. This is a game that the Broncos should have won, but the underlying stats still give me hope for next week, considering how well the Broncos moved the ball against the Chargers in week 2. Go Broncos!
"I am not one of those who think that coming in second or third is winning." -- Robert F. Kennedy
by TedBartlett905 on
Dec 22, 2008 6:09 AM MST
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Hi Ted....
This leads to my point (and my blog on adjustments). We lost this game due to bad coaching. We had enough yards to win 2 games yesyerday, yet never punched it in.
We NEVER have a game when all 3 phases of our play bring it.
Scott O Brien is a COMPLETE idiot. He has done nothing to improve ST at all. Buffalo only needed 275 yards to get it done because of the field position we gace them.
Did you hear Prater’s comments after the game. He said they were worried McKelvin would take it to the house EVERY time. What a ludicrous mind set to take into a gae of this magnitude.
AAAHHHHHH….just gets me riled up for our coaching staff tto blow another game.
Heres an analogy: This team is like a formula 1 race car yet we are asking a little old granny to drive it, and taking it into Micks Oil Lube to fix it, when we need a qulaified driver and pit crew to keep it humming. When in the hell is Shanny going to wake up to the fact that the staff he has assembled is piss poor at best. I would keep Bates and Turner and jettison everyone else.
These stats dont make me happy, they make me angrier in the fact the team could not get it done.
Those that cant coach, compete!
Failing to plan is planning to fail.
by boydy2669 on
Dec 22, 2008 6:30 AM MST
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The worst part of ST yesterday wasn't necessarily the playcalls...
it was tackling. If the first or even second guy to make contact would have brought the returners down, they would have started around the 30 most of the game, instead of midfield. Maybe we missed Nico and Jack yesterday.
"Choose the sword, and you will join me. Choose the ball and you join your mother, in death. You don’t understand my words, but you must choose. So… come boy, choose life or death."
by ButteBronco on
Dec 22, 2008 6:54 AM MST
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Still, I hate the short yardage kicks to avoid the returner.
It would be nice if we could kick away from a great returner without kicking short. And as you point out, lack of tackling is an issue too.
"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe
by hoosierteacher on
Dec 22, 2008 7:58 AM MST
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Bad coaching
Denver seemed to suffer from worse coaching in this game. They were killing the Bills’ O with the blitz in Q1, but went away from it for most of the rest of the game.
Also, Denver’s plan to kick the ball away from McKelvin on kickoffs really backfired as Fred Jackson made them pay several times.
This is from a post at BuffaloRamblings by thefourwinds
Hard to disagree.
To bear up under loss, to fight the bitterness of defeat and the weakness of grief, to be victor over anger, to smile when tears are close, to resist evil men and base instincts, to hate evil and to love love, to go on when it would seem good to die, to seek after the glory and the dream, to look up with unquenchable faith in something evermore about to be, that is what any man can do, and so be great.
Zane Grey
by bradley on
Dec 22, 2008 11:14 AM MST
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I fully agree with both of those statements.
"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe
by hoosierteacher on
Dec 22, 2008 11:52 AM MST
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PS: As HT alluded too, its only football!!!! Merry X Mas to all and enjot time with your loved ones~!!!!
Those that cant coach, compete!
Failing to plan is planning to fail.
by boydy2669 on
Dec 22, 2008 6:33 AM MST
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Ute
You’re right HT, a lot of us were thinking 9-7, 10-6 before the season, and we have Guru’s famous statement that we are in year three of a,,, you know the rest. I was firmly in that camp. The primary consideration that put me there was youth, especially on offense, and we all know this team is built around its offense. I thought if our young offense was inconsistent throughout the year, our team would follow suit. Since I expected it, I have been forgiving during the year with Jay’s turnovers, BMarsh’s drops, Eddie’s punt returns of late, etc. All these guys have shown signs of brilliance and I believe they will dominate over the next few years.
Which brings me to Bates and the playcalling. I cut him the same slack that I cut for Jay, BMarsh, Eddie, Barrett, JBell, etc. He is young, and this is his first time in this role. Furthermore, he must be doing something right as we have a statistically great offense, and the QB he’s coaching just set an all time passing record for our franchise. I agree with you that some of the situational playcalling has been terrible (watch the redzone playcalls on the two devastating FG drives in the first half yesterday). However, that is exactly what will improve with experience.
So, let’s be patient with Bates like some of us have been patient with the rest of our utes. The payoff for having a young, elite offensive mind grouped with young, elite personnel is too great.
"Choose the sword, and you will join me. Choose the ball and you join your mother, in death. You don’t understand my words, but you must choose. So… come boy, choose life or death."
by ButteBronco on
Dec 22, 2008 7:19 AM MST
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Where I might differ.
To me, players can be forgiven for being inexperienced or new. But the buck stops with the coaching staff. For example, a guy may be a “new general”, but he’s come up through the ranks.
The change from college to pro can be steep for a player. But those who take the mantle of coach or coordinator should really demonstrate some experience running a defense or offense before being promoted. For example, a good school program will have a coordinator back off during some game situations and some practice situations, and let the position coaches step up. If the coordinator gets sick or has a family emergency, everyone is comfortable with who will fill in. I imagine Denver does this to some extent, but I really don’t know.
I think the easy solution would be to have Shanahan give up one of his lesser duties and pick up offensive playcalling. He can then focus on getting a good defensive coordinator. (His offensive coordinator can handle all of the other issues with the offense, which is the way many teams handle the position anyway).
"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe
by hoosierteacher on
Dec 22, 2008 8:07 AM MST
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After...
watching the game twice (I can’t believe I put myself through it, but my brother just drove up for Christmas and wanted to watch it with me last night), it is clear to me that Mike is managing Jeremy very closely. On almost every shot to the sidelines, Mike and Jeremy were standing next to each other, each with the laminated play sheet in hand. He’s not simply pacing the sidelines, arms folded, listening to the playcalls, that’s for sure.
Maybe Mike should take the reigns from Jeremy completely, although it’s tough for me to say because I’ve never coached or called a play (which is why I almost never second-guess coaching— sometimes you just can’t help it). To me, it seems that playcalling is something that experience would be extremely valuable. I may be wrong, as I have no frame of reference. However, if I’m correct, wouldn’t this year would be the perfect time to break a young, talented coach in? Remember, Bates did spend a couple years working directly under Mike Himerdinger. It’s not like he came from absolutly nowhere.
My other thought is… how much of the credit does master Bates deserve for one of the top three passing offenses in the league? He must be evaluated on this criteria as well as his playcalling. Do we want to demote this guy and strip down his confidence? I suppose we may be doing this in spite of Jeremy? Thoughts?
"Choose the sword, and you will join me. Choose the ball and you join your mother, in death. You don’t understand my words, but you must choose. So… come boy, choose life or death."
by ButteBronco on
Dec 22, 2008 10:08 AM MST
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Good thoughts all.
Having one of the best pass offenses is due in part to a great young QB, three great receivers, two great TEs, and a great OL. The heavy amount of pass calls also gives us a lot of pass yards.
But I judge the offensive coordinator by how he fits in with the team’s plan. The defense (as bad as it has been) gets put in bad spots because we turn over the ball. I believe those turnovers come because teams just know we are going to throw the ball constantly.
For all of the excuses we hear about the running game (we have lost some 8 RBs to injuries), I just don’t buy it. Even Pope was doing great. As long as we have RBs on the roster, why aren’t we running the ball? We were winning this game until we abandoned the run, and decided to air out the ball. The annoying thing is, if you watch the games we’ve played this season, you’ll see that all is well until (at some point in a game) we decide to just throw, throw, throw.
"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe
by hoosierteacher on
Dec 22, 2008 1:24 PM MST
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and now
both PJ Pope and Selvin Young have been sent to IR. Pope with a torn hamstring and Selvin with a herniated disk!
Cory Boyd has been signed to the active roster along with resigning Alex Haynes (whoever that is).
"It's all over Fat Man" - Tom Jackson to John Madden 1977 AFC Championship Game
"Superman wears Peyton Hillis pajamas" - FlaBronco
by DesertBroncoFan on
Dec 22, 2008 3:40 PM MST
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Do you think its Jeremy Bates fault??
for calling pass plays or someone else for instructing him to do so (or not to do so…)???
by RiG on
Dec 22, 2008 5:12 PM MST
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RiG,,,
Its a convuluted system.
Dennison is officially OC, yet he calls NO plays as his responsibiulity is the line. Turner will call run plays, Bates pass plays and Shanny overseas it all.
There seems to be a distinct lack of cohesion, and that is why we need a high profile, true tested OC that can seemelessly put it all together.
the saem problems permeate on D as well.
Shanny has put together a STUPID structure so that he has a thumb in all pies. Sahhny’s biggest weakness is delegation. He micro manages and RARELY brings in any high profile coaches as it seems to usurp his authority. With how much upside this team haas, this needs to change in a hurry…just my 2 cents!
Those that cant coach, compete!
Failing to plan is planning to fail.
by boydy2669 on
Dec 22, 2008 7:03 PM MST
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I disagree a little.
I think the biggest problem is that Shanahan DOESN"T micromanage enough. I think we would do better as a team if Shanahan did the offensive playcalling. He put in the scripted run plays in the first quarter (they were great!), and you could tell when Bates took over because that’s when the game took a turn for the worse.
I think the OC title for Dennison carries no weight because it isn’t supposed to. It’s not Shanny trying to exert some Machivelian power; just a way for a terrific position coach to get a title and some respect for what he does (he’s too valuable to move away from the line to OC, but his resume is safe).
"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe
by hoosierteacher on
Dec 23, 2008 3:45 AM MST
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There is plenty of blame to go around.
Cutler is young and making some youthful mistakes (overthrows, not “looking off” passes, bad decisions on INTs). Bates isn’t helping his young QB by throwing in more run plays to make the passing game more effective. Shanahan is being a good coach, and not micromanaging the coordinator’s job. But if the terrific scripted run plays (from Shanahan) in the 1st quarter didn’t teach Bates the importance of running the ball, I don’t know what will.
"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe
by hoosierteacher on
Dec 23, 2008 3:40 AM MST
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Do you think Jeremy Bates is a real QB coach?
coaching Cutler, or just at that position to call plays?
by RiG on
Dec 23, 2008 12:38 PM MST
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Going into this past weekend, Denver had the 7th ranked pass offense in the NFL according to DVOA.
I don’t know if you can call the 7th best pass offense in the NFL great. Good certainly, but great?
Bolts from the Blue // "It is what it is." - A.J. Smith
Bloody Elbow // "Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." - H.L. Mencken
by Richard Wade on
Dec 22, 2008 9:41 PM MST
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We don't follow DVOA all that closely
though we have many members who understand it well. A lot of what we are referring to has more to do with the fact that we get very excited about where this team is going. Except for Daniel Graham and Stokely this passing game is so young that we really feel like the sky is the limit. I mean, it is hard sometimes to imagine how good they can be if Royal and Marshall both get better, and if Cutler gets better.
Another thing we think about when we talk about our passing game is just how many weapons we have… both TEs are prodigious contributors this year, all three starting WRs are lights out, and Cutler has been getting it doens with his feet on passing plays as well. factor in our tackles, and overall line play, and most Broncos fans will feel comfortable calling it great, even if they have to acknowledge that statistically they aren’t the best.
And int he GRAND scheme of things, the top passing offenses in the NFL are all historically good, even if just for their own franchise. It is a good time to be a team set up for the pass, evidently.
Concision in style, precision in thought, decision in life.
by styg50 on
Dec 22, 2008 10:09 PM MST
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Oh, I’ll grant you that they have the potential to be great, but I read that earlier comment as suggesting they already were and the numbers just don’t back that up.
Bolts from the Blue // "It is what it is." - A.J. Smith
Bloody Elbow // "Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." - H.L. Mencken
by Richard Wade on
Dec 22, 2008 10:49 PM MST
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we reserve the right
to get carried away. :)
Concision in style, precision in thought, decision in life.
by styg50 on
Dec 22, 2008 10:53 PM MST
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Ha, of course.
Bolts from the Blue // "It is what it is." - A.J. Smith
Bloody Elbow // "Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." - H.L. Mencken
by Richard Wade on
Dec 22, 2008 10:54 PM MST
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How's the running game in San Diego? Good? Average?
Passing?
btw, stats are this:
Broncos Offense: 2nd in total yards, THIRD in passing. 12th in rushing. I got my stats from NFL.com
the Chargers: 28th in rushing, 7th in passing. Where do you get Denver 7th in passing?? San Diego is also 13th in total offense.
I’m not sure if you meant to say SAN DIEGO had the 7th ranked passing offense, because we all know that Denver has ranked 3rd in passing offense since early on in the season. We’re 2nd in total offense. So yeah, even at a young age our team is head and shoulders above San Diego statistically. I’m just saying…
This is my GAP, there are many like it but this one is mine. Without my GAP I am useless, without me, they will run through my GAP. I will protect my GAP and have my brothers back on his. I will not be moved from my GAP, I am a crazed dog that patrols this area and will defeat all who entire it. I own this GAP, it is mine. I bought it with blood and sweat. I will not be pushed. I will not be moved. This Sunday I will make a stand and a statement.
by Zappa on
Dec 22, 2008 11:13 PM MST
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he's talking football outsiders
which tries to adjust the passing stats based on the defenses they are gained against. There may be other factors considered as well…
Concision in style, precision in thought, decision in life.
by styg50 on
Dec 22, 2008 11:15 PM MST
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I was referring to DVOA, not context-free yardage. As for the Chargers’ running game, it’s atrocious. It has started to approach un-embarrassing in recent weeks, but it’s still poor. The passing game is top three in the league (or was going into this past weekend, which probably didn’t do much to hurt it).
Denver’s overall offense is certainly superior this year, but their passing game is not. If your stat tell you otherwise, well, they’re wrong.
Bolts from the Blue // "It is what it is." - A.J. Smith
Bloody Elbow // "Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." - H.L. Mencken
by Richard Wade on
Dec 22, 2008 11:15 PM MST
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Ok. It still means nothing to me.
The real stats show Denver is ranked 3rd and San Diego 7th….I don’t like theoretical models, especially when it’s based on a valueless system of “defense strength”. Any defense can have a bad day so that alone would make their rankings worthless to any objective observer. Or what not.
This is my GAP, there are many like it but this one is mine. Without my GAP I am useless, without me, they will run through my GAP. I will protect my GAP and have my brothers back on his. I will not be moved from my GAP, I am a crazed dog that patrols this area and will defeat all who entire it. I own this GAP, it is mine. I bought it with blood and sweat. I will not be pushed. I will not be moved. This Sunday I will make a stand and a statement.
by Zappa on
Dec 22, 2008 11:23 PM MST
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The real stats show that Denver is third in yards and San Diego is seventh in yards. Yards without context are a pretty lousy measure. A nine yard pass play on third and 12 isn’t the same thing as a nine yard pass play on third and eight. Also, yards don’t account for turnovers or quality of opposition.
By your logic all offensive statistics are worthless.
Bolts from the Blue // "It is what it is." - A.J. Smith
Bloody Elbow // "Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." - H.L. Mencken
by Richard Wade on
Dec 22, 2008 11:30 PM MST
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Context as in when the vaunted Browns put up 35 against the Giants?
Or when the Jets put up 34 on the Titans?
Or the Titans putting up 31 on the Steelers.
Some of those are playoff teams, but all of them were top ranked defenses that had a bad night. That skews the theoretical model you are holding up so mightly. That’s all.
This is my GAP, there are many like it but this one is mine. Without my GAP I am useless, without me, they will run through my GAP. I will protect my GAP and have my brothers back on his. I will not be moved from my GAP, I am a crazed dog that patrols this area and will defeat all who entire it. I own this GAP, it is mine. I bought it with blood and sweat. I will not be pushed. I will not be moved. This Sunday I will make a stand and a statement.
by Zappa on
Dec 22, 2008 11:48 PM MST
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I still can’t get over the fact that you are pretending yardage without context doesn’t suffer from similar problems. I get that you would rather believe the yardage totals are more important since it ranks your team more highly, but the intellectual dishonesty is staggering.
Bolts from the Blue // "It is what it is." - A.J. Smith
Bloody Elbow // "Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." - H.L. Mencken
by Richard Wade on
Dec 23, 2008 10:39 AM MST
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A majority of your posts are intellectually dishonest.
Keep on riding the high horse. You are a Charger fan and will twist any stat to turn it in your favor. I am just using the actual stats to point our reality. Either way we both have opposite agendas, so what is the point of this pointless exercise? Are you bored over at Bolts from the Blue? Seriously, you will not win any arguments here other than the ones in your mind.
This is my GAP, there are many like it but this one is mine. Without my GAP I am useless, without me, they will run through my GAP. I will protect my GAP and have my brothers back on his. I will not be moved from my GAP, I am a crazed dog that patrols this area and will defeat all who entire it. I own this GAP, it is mine. I bought it with blood and sweat. I will not be pushed. I will not be moved. This Sunday I will make a stand and a statement.
by Zappa on
Dec 23, 2008 11:25 AM MST
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+10000
somethings wrong, Trying to conquer these fears i thought were gone. And it's been so long, I'm dying to live in a world i don't belong
by broncfanstuckinsd on
Dec 23, 2008 11:32 AM MST
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Calling being in the right “riding the high horse” is not an argument. Using more advanced metrics is not twisting stats in my favor. My agenda has already been stated. I am seeking intelligent conversation. You refuse to accept facts that run counter to your fantasy. Also, as I stated earlier those who reject reason cannot be defeated by it. Your comment illustrates that sentiment perfectly.
Bolts from the Blue // "It is what it is." - A.J. Smith
Bloody Elbow // "Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." - H.L. Mencken
by Richard Wade on
Dec 23, 2008 1:56 PM MST
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And the only reason that has any merit is yours right?
Reason is a double edged sword and any reason that disagrees with your reason you accuse the other as rejecting reason. You call my facts fantasy yet my facts are posted on NFL.com, your facts are posted on a website that has to find ways to get people to read into their stuff. Creative yes, factual no. I am trying to reason with you by telling you that what you are doing is a pointless exercise and you are not striking a chord with anyone here, except maybe styg50 because he has a love for theoretical models and statistical equations based on all sorts of models. The point of my argument is that the “facts” you are using are based on a theoretical model that is just plain flawed. How can any model using “defensive strength” have any merit? A defense can be considered strong, yet blow it on any given Sunday. If they blew it against certain teams they would inflate that teams offensive value. What if the Lions put up 30 on the Steelers…? It didn’t happen, but games like that have happened in the past. The Lions go 0-16, but according to your DVOA theoretical model, their offense is rated way higher than some other teams that actually won a few games. It makes no sense to me. But like I said earlier, this is a pointless exercise and you will not consider anything that doesn’t make your Chargers look better than they are statistically and I will not look at anything that isn’t based on actual numbers. The real numbers say the Broncos have the second ranked offense in the league, while the Chargers are 12th.
This is my GAP, there are many like it but this one is mine. Without my GAP I am useless, without me, they will run through my GAP. I will protect my GAP and have my brothers back on his. I will not be moved from my GAP, I am a crazed dog that patrols this area and will defeat all who entire it. I own this GAP, it is mine. I bought it with blood and sweat. I will not be pushed. I will not be moved. This Sunday I will make a stand and a statement.
by Zappa on
Dec 23, 2008 2:32 PM MST
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I'll say this
Richard didn’t pick Football Outsiders because they skew to the Chargers; he was talking about them from the season’s beginning. I’m not saying they are the be all, end all; but analysts do this intuitively anyway. This team has a great record but a ‘cupcake’ schedule. That Chargers offense was great; but it was only against the Raiders. Football Outsiders just tries to quantify that; sometimes it does look to have things wrong; but overall I find it a valuable tool.
"Football is a physical sport, sometimes you have a disagreement on what's going on, and you have a discussion about it." Kris Dielman
by Brian (DaBolts) on
Dec 23, 2008 3:13 PM MST
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Honestly,
if I were to rank the Broncos and Chargers myself. I’d say they are right next to each other in skill and explosiveness. Which team is ranked above the other? That seems to change each week. Right now, the edge is in San Diego’s favor…but I like the Broncos chances when their backs are against the wall. The only problem is, we have no freaking running backs left that can do anything. :( As I’ve said many times, the Chargers are going to have a major problem with the Broncos in 2009(so long as we don’t lose 9 more running backs). If we still had Peyton Hillis, I’d say the Broncos would have already wrapped up the division by now….good luck Sunday! Contain Cutler and you win, if not, then it will be a close one.
This is my GAP, there are many like it but this one is mine. Without my GAP I am useless, without me, they will run through my GAP. I will protect my GAP and have my brothers back on his. I will not be moved from my GAP, I am a crazed dog that patrols this area and will defeat all who entire it. I own this GAP, it is mine. I bought it with blood and sweat. I will not be pushed. I will not be moved. This Sunday I will make a stand and a statement.
by Zappa on
Dec 23, 2008 3:17 PM MST
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Sunday
If we still had Peyton Hillis, I’d say the Broncos would have already wrapped up the division by now….good luck Sunday! Contain Cutler and you win, if not, then it will be a close one.
See, those if games are hard not to play; ours have just been different than yours. The way this season has gone this will be a three hour heart attack. Here’s to no more injuries!
"Football is a physical sport, sometimes you have a disagreement on what's going on, and you have a discussion about it." Kris Dielman
by Brian (DaBolts) on
Dec 23, 2008 3:39 PM MST
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No more injuries at the RB position at least! lol
I am not usually a big what if guy either…well, yes I am. I am a homer. But ever what if has an infinite number of cause and effects that would change everything from that point forward. To change, say, the Ed Hochuli call would not necessarily mean the Broncos would be 7-8 and the Chargers 8-7. The entire season for both teams would have changed. The Chargers could have gone on to win 12 games or continued to underachieve, while the Broncos could have completely collapsed from that loss and won just 4 games or they could have surged back to still end up one game ahead of the Chargers going into this weekend. My only point really is that one call didn’t make or break either teams season. We both control our own destiny on Sunday. ;-) The team that wins will have earned their division title.
This is my GAP, there are many like it but this one is mine. Without my GAP I am useless, without me, they will run through my GAP. I will protect my GAP and have my brothers back on his. I will not be moved from my GAP, I am a crazed dog that patrols this area and will defeat all who entire it. I own this GAP, it is mine. I bought it with blood and sweat. I will not be pushed. I will not be moved. This Sunday I will make a stand and a statement.
by Zappa on
Dec 23, 2008 4:14 PM MST
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C'mon Zappa
A lot of people here take DVOA seriously. If being ranked third is so relevant why aren’t our point totals higher? It has seemed to me, impressionistically, to be sure, that our offense is noticeably less effective than the high numerical rating suggests. The 7th place DVOA ranking is closer to our offense’s actual effectiveness. I don’t think Richard is being unreasonable.
"In the empty spaces - lacunae, vacuums, pauses, voids, black holes - new things begin. We are born anew from the unexplored space, the badlands, the outlaw territory." - Sam Keen
by spock on
Dec 23, 2008 5:56 PM MST
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Yeah, it was his dismissal of all opposing views that caused me dismiss anything he said.
My only point there was that the DVOA model was based on a factor that may or may not be flawed. Just because a defense is ranked highly doesn’t mean it can’t have a bad day. That would screw up the whole system in my view. The problem wasn’t so much that I felt he was wrong, it was that I didn’t like how he would only accept his opinion. I can take that from Bronco fans because well they are Bronco fans, but is some Charger fan wants to come in here and start being holier than though I take offense to it.
Let’s just say I was pissy and wanted to be a jerk, but I must insist that I still believe that the DVOA model may be flawed in some of its assumptions based on “strength” of offenses or defenses. There are so many variables that cannot be measured in their model that it would be impossible for me to accept.
Honestly, I should have kept my Irish temper in check and tried to get my point across in a more convincing manner than the acidic responses I fell into. I blame Ed Hochuli…that discussion ruined any chance I had at being reasonable with the guy.
I apologize to you all for my failure to keep my cool. Let’s just say I have issues with Charger fans more than any other fan base on Earth. I get along with Raider fans more than I do with Charger fans. I don’t know why…my bias screwed things up for me today. lol
Hopefully my original intent can still be understood. If anyone bothers to sift through the garbage all throughout this post to find people who are actually trying to talk football.
This is my GAP, there are many like it but this one is mine. Without my GAP I am useless, without me, they will run through my GAP. I will protect my GAP and have my brothers back on his. I will not be moved from my GAP, I am a crazed dog that patrols this area and will defeat all who entire it. I own this GAP, it is mine. I bought it with blood and sweat. I will not be pushed. I will not be moved. This Sunday I will make a stand and a statement.
by Zappa on
Dec 23, 2008 6:13 PM MST
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It seemed to me we abandoned the run
only after our running plays started getting stuffed. I can’t help thinking that if Cutler had hit on one or two of those deep passes it would have opened some room our running backs (er, back). I was shocked not only that he missed Royal, but by how much he missed him given how totally wide open he was. And I bet Cutler’s wildness wasn’t lost on the Bills. But surely the loss of Pope, who appeared to be the best prepared of the backs we had on the field, didn’t help, either. You can’t go all the way through your depth chart and beyond and not have some impact on your running game, even if you do have a brilliant offensive line.
"In the empty spaces - lacunae, vacuums, pauses, voids, black holes - new things begin. We are born anew from the unexplored space, the badlands, the outlaw territory." - Sam Keen
by spock on
Dec 23, 2008 5:42 PM MST
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Dead On Spock,
You’re on to something with the prepared comment… after watching the way the first quarter developed, it wouldn’t shock me if Pope got 80% of the reps during the week. Bell was completely ineffective from the start, and Young pinched the nerve in the second half. At that point is a run-first offense an option?
With so many RBs going down during the season, injuries to our most prepared backs could account for the shift in playcalling during those particular games as well (Hillis in the KC game comes to mind)
"Choose the sword, and you will join me. Choose the ball and you join your mother, in death. You don’t understand my words, but you must choose. So… come boy, choose life or death."
by ButteBronco on
Dec 24, 2008 2:50 PM MST
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Agreed Butte..
Bates has talent, and he needs to be mentored corrctly by having a “proper” OC. The structure is a little conviluted with Dennison OC but looking after the line (which he has been great at obviously).
We need Dennison to O Line Coach, Turner RB Coach, Bates QB Coach and bring in a great planner at OC.
Obviously, we need an AWESOME DC as well and keep Slowik working with the DB’s.
We are only lacking essential game planning which is letting the team down…badly.
This off season will be really interesting as we have a very taleneted team and just need som eparts fixed on the coaching and defensive sides!
Those that cant coach, compete!
Failing to plan is planning to fail.
by boydy2669 on
Dec 22, 2008 7:35 AM MST
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I thought they'd go 8-8 during the preseason.
So I’m right on target. Can I call myself an expert when they lose next week? Maybe ESPN will hire me :D Of course, I thought the Jets would be 6-10 at best, so maybe not.
Sorry for being so down on the team, I just don’t see any leadership out there. I have no faith that they can win this next game. And it’s probably too far passed Christmas to hope for a miracle? I hope they can win, but I’m not letting them get too high.
by CalgaryFan on
Dec 22, 2008 7:59 AM MST
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Denver is inconsistent.
But SD is a team in decline. They have been behind us all year, and Denver hasn’t put them away with wins in the last couple of games. Our wounds are more self inflicted than the result of anything SD has managed to do. That’s one reason why I’m sticking with Denver.
"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe
by hoosierteacher on
Dec 22, 2008 8:10 AM MST
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Hasn't San Diego also been kind of inconsistent?
They played bad to begin the year and are finally starting to play a little better at the end of the year. This is San Diego’s last shot at play-off hopes for a few years, considering the age of their players and how they played this year.
by broncoholic on
Dec 22, 2008 8:15 AM MST
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I guess it depends on your take.
I see your point. But SD seems to have been a below .500 team most of the season; we have been slightly above. The perspective I’m coming from is that we beat good teams and lose to bad teams.
"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe
by hoosierteacher on
Dec 22, 2008 10:06 AM MST
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So then the question is...
….is San Diego a good team or a bad team? (If we beat the good ones and lose to the bad ones).
To bear up under loss, to fight the bitterness of defeat and the weakness of grief, to be victor over anger, to smile when tears are close, to resist evil men and base instincts, to hate evil and to love love, to go on when it would seem good to die, to seek after the glory and the dream, to look up with unquenchable faith in something evermore about to be, that is what any man can do, and so be great.
Zane Grey
by bradley on
Dec 22, 2008 11:08 AM MST
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They are a bad, good team.
"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe
by hoosierteacher on
Dec 22, 2008 11:52 AM MST
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That's ...
…lawyer speak!
To bear up under loss, to fight the bitterness of defeat and the weakness of grief, to be victor over anger, to smile when tears are close, to resist evil men and base instincts, to hate evil and to love love, to go on when it would seem good to die, to seek after the glory and the dream, to look up with unquenchable faith in something evermore about to be, that is what any man can do, and so be great.
Zane Grey
by bradley on
Dec 22, 2008 12:02 PM MST
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I knew you would understand!
: )
"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe
by hoosierteacher on
Dec 22, 2008 12:08 PM MST
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That’s a great way of putting it.
Bolts from the Blue // "It is what it is." - A.J. Smith
Bloody Elbow // "Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." - H.L. Mencken
by Richard Wade on
Dec 22, 2008 9:43 PM MST
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San Diego was a bad team that has improved significantly over the course of the season. Whether or not they are good now is debatable.
Bolts from the Blue // "It is what it is." - A.J. Smith
Bloody Elbow // "Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." - H.L. Mencken
by Richard Wade on
Dec 22, 2008 9:42 PM MST
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The question is
what is the source of the improvements. That is two years ina row with slow starts, so I lean towards player readiness.
Concision in style, precision in thought, decision in life.
by styg50 on
Dec 22, 2008 10:15 PM MST
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A lot of it is because San Diego came into the season with injuries to Pro Bowl offensive lineman and the #1 inside linebacker suspended for four games. Also, Gates and Tomlinson were injured, but are healthier now. Oh and the defensive coordinator was fired and the defense has responded well to his replacement.
More than anything, though, the difference is that they are much healthier and have adapted to life after Merriman.
Bolts from the Blue // "It is what it is." - A.J. Smith
Bloody Elbow // "Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." - H.L. Mencken
by Richard Wade on
Dec 22, 2008 10:51 PM MST
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Adapted to life without merriman
when did this start, and what does it amount to? And what difference has firing Cotrell had at the player level? That seems like it would be a major factor to me, in a defense getting over issues with its missing star, but I don’t know where it fits on the timeline of the team playing better…
Concision in style, precision in thought, decision in life.
by styg50 on
Dec 22, 2008 11:01 PM MST
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It was a slow process. Cottrell honestly didn’t seem to learn from failure. He seemed to think he could call the same plays with SP filling in for Merriman and Tucker filling in for SP and still get results. He was wrong.
Rivera has halved the playbook, moved SP back to his natural spot and has better utilized players like Antwan Applewhite. I think we started to see a difference with Rivera’s second week as DC. The team seems to have a different energy on defense.
Bolts from the Blue // "It is what it is." - A.J. Smith
Bloody Elbow // "Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." - H.L. Mencken
by Richard Wade on
Dec 22, 2008 11:06 PM MST
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It seems your slow starts the past two seasons
are consistent with Tomlinson’s struggles early in the season (this year’s toe injury not withstanding).
Could this be due to the fact that LDT doesn’t play in the pre-season? It seems that you guys would want to start the season firing on all cylinders, but by having Ladanian coming in cold as far as game speed (which you won’t get during training camp) is a detriment to quick starts out of San Diego.
"It's all over Fat Man" - Tom Jackson to John Madden 1977 AFC Championship Game
"Superman wears Peyton Hillis pajamas" - FlaBronco
by DesertBroncoFan on
Dec 23, 2008 10:24 AM MST
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LDT is selfish. He is too "good" to play in the preseason.
San Diego was 4-8 at one point…slow starts don’t typically last 12 games. lol LDT just isn’t the LDT from 3-6 years ago.
This is my GAP, there are many like it but this one is mine. Without my GAP I am useless, without me, they will run through my GAP. I will protect my GAP and have my brothers back on his. I will not be moved from my GAP, I am a crazed dog that patrols this area and will defeat all who entire it. I own this GAP, it is mine. I bought it with blood and sweat. I will not be pushed. I will not be moved. This Sunday I will make a stand and a statement.
by Zappa on
Dec 23, 2008 10:38 AM MST
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Tomlinson not playing in the pre-season is an organizational philosophy not due to his being selfish. Also, even if he did play in the pre-season, he wouldn’t have this year because he was injured.
Bolts from the Blue // "It is what it is." - A.J. Smith
Bloody Elbow // "Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." - H.L. Mencken
by Richard Wade on
Dec 23, 2008 10:41 AM MST
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Last year it was probably more to do with the coaching change. This year it was due to injuries to McNeill, Hardwick, Gates and Tomlinson on offense.
Bolts from the Blue // "It is what it is." - A.J. Smith
Bloody Elbow // "Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." - H.L. Mencken
by Richard Wade on
Dec 23, 2008 10:41 AM MST
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How many RB do you have on IR?
Oh yet the Broncos still have more wins? The Chargers aren’t the only team with injuries and I would take a gander and say the Broncos have done more with less than the Chargers. Yet you insist the Chargers are head and shoulders above the Broncos in talent…reality just doesn’t agree.
This is my GAP, there are many like it but this one is mine. Without my GAP I am useless, without me, they will run through my GAP. I will protect my GAP and have my brothers back on his. I will not be moved from my GAP, I am a crazed dog that patrols this area and will defeat all who entire it. I own this GAP, it is mine. I bought it with blood and sweat. I will not be pushed. I will not be moved. This Sunday I will make a stand and a statement.
by Zappa on
Dec 23, 2008 11:27 AM MST
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I was explaining why they were worse earlier in the year than they are now. I was not comparing their injury struggles to those of the Broncos. The level of discourse here isn’t what it once was thanks to you. I don’t think I’ll be back.
Bolts from the Blue // "It is what it is." - A.J. Smith
Bloody Elbow // "Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." - H.L. Mencken
by Richard Wade on
Dec 23, 2008 1:57 PM MST
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Denver has played like a well below .500 team for most of the year. Their point differential has been negative for quite some time.
Bolts from the Blue // "It is what it is." - A.J. Smith
Bloody Elbow // "Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." - H.L. Mencken
by Richard Wade on
Dec 22, 2008 9:43 PM MST
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I deleted this comment twice
it is like it wasn’t meant to be posted…
I had given some info on our team balance and pointed to Denver, New Orleans and SanDiego as all being very similar in that they have .750 offenses and .250 defenses. The result is a team that hovers around .500 all year, despite looking like power houses in particular situations. There is no doubt that any of these three teams would have serious trouble against a highly ranked playoff team.
I calculate out a power ranking, which reads as a win % for each team, after factoring in a teams ability to score and to prevent another team form scoring, as well as a graduated form of opponents record. i don’t really know why I do it, but the latest numbers after last week:
DEN: .487
SD: .517
NO: .519
A quick glance shows that New Orleans is the superior of the three teams, spending the majority of its time hovering above .500, while Denver and San Diego have dipped up and down, above and below .500 ever since week four (denver was much higher at 3-0). Now they are meeting up with Denver on a down dip and SD on an up swing. Based on the history, I would say all of that can be safely thrown out for this game. I hesitate to say it after the drubbing in SD last year, but I think these two teams are on equal footing for this game, due to its unique nature…
Concision in style, precision in thought, decision in life.
by styg50 on
Dec 22, 2008 10:34 PM MST
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Have you, by chance, explained your methodology more in-depth elsewhere? I’m not sure I follow at present.
Bolts from the Blue // "It is what it is." - A.J. Smith
Bloody Elbow // "Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." - H.L. Mencken
by Richard Wade on
Dec 22, 2008 10:53 PM MST
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I haven't
I really had no plans for it, outside of posting the results at the end of the year. It is just a spreadsheet that I put the game results into and it spits out some rankings for me. I referenced it here only because it factors in strength of opponent to the winning % of each team, and it happens to be open on my desktop right now…
Concision in style, precision in thought, decision in life.
by styg50 on
Dec 22, 2008 10:58 PM MST
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Well, if you do, I’d like to see it. I’m intrigued.
Bolts from the Blue // "It is what it is." - A.J. Smith
Bloody Elbow // "Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." - H.L. Mencken
by Richard Wade on
Dec 22, 2008 11:00 PM MST
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Interesting...since it is the Chargers are the ones who are a game under .500 right now.
The Chiefs played like a .500 team yet are well below a .500 team. Your logic defies me.
This is my GAP, there are many like it but this one is mine. Without my GAP I am useless, without me, they will run through my GAP. I will protect my GAP and have my brothers back on his. I will not be moved from my GAP, I am a crazed dog that patrols this area and will defeat all who entire it. I own this GAP, it is mine. I bought it with blood and sweat. I will not be pushed. I will not be moved. This Sunday I will make a stand and a statement.
by Zappa on
Dec 22, 2008 11:14 PM MST
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As they say, people who reject reason cannot be defeated by it, but I shall try anyway.
The Chargers have a positive point differential. The Chiefs have a negative point differential as do the Broncos.
Bolts from the Blue // "It is what it is." - A.J. Smith
Bloody Elbow // "Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." - H.L. Mencken
by Richard Wade on
Dec 22, 2008 11:17 PM MST
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Yet the Chargers are under .500....how am I not being reasonable with that observation?
So your logic must dictate that the Chargers are playing like an above .500 team but are below .500. Therefore the Chargers should win based on the fact that they scored more points than they gave up? So the team with the biggest point differential should also win the Super Bowl? I just think that stuff is hogwash. The game hasn’t even been played and there is no way I will concede anything until after the game is concluded. I went through all this earlier this year with Charger fans….none of them ever believed they could be defeated by the Broncos.
As far as I am concerned, both teams are 0-0….ranked nowhere in anything. They are equals and the winner will be AFC Western Division champs because they EARNED it. No more Ed Hochuli crap, no more whining about losing out to blow a chance to win the division, no nothing. It is here and now. May the best team of 2008 WIN. No matter what, this division will be contested again next year and the Chargers will fall. If not in 2008, then in 2009. The pendulum is shifting my friend.
This is my GAP, there are many like it but this one is mine. Without my GAP I am useless, without me, they will run through my GAP. I will protect my GAP and have my brothers back on his. I will not be moved from my GAP, I am a crazed dog that patrols this area and will defeat all who entire it. I own this GAP, it is mine. I bought it with blood and sweat. I will not be pushed. I will not be moved. This Sunday I will make a stand and a statement.
by Zappa on
Dec 22, 2008 11:29 PM MST
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You’re drawing conclusions unsupported by my previous statements.
The Chargers haven’t been legitimately defeated by the Broncos in three years.
Bolts from the Blue // "It is what it is." - A.J. Smith
Bloody Elbow // "Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." - H.L. Mencken
by Richard Wade on
Dec 22, 2008 11:31 PM MST
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I was at that game in SD three years ago...
How sweet it was to see John Lynch knock out Brees early, Phillis sputter, and BVP and the rest of our young guys take it to the sorry-ass Chargers all day. All the while, talking shit to a bunch of fair-weather, whiney Charger fans. To top it off, my wife, brother and I went downtown and had a great NYE celebration in SD, laughing at the whiney, excuse-ridden Charger fans all night. I gotta say it was a good day.
I suppose Rick here will find some statistical analysis that proves that the Chargers didn’t get their asses kicked that day, but I was there to actually whiteness what happened on the field, which is all that really matters.
"Choose the sword, and you will join me. Choose the ball and you join your mother, in death. You don’t understand my words, but you must choose. So… come boy, choose life or death."
by ButteBronco on
Dec 23, 2008 11:41 AM MST
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Ironically, the teams have completely flipped around.
Back then the Broncos were a veteran team that knew how to win football games when it mattered most and San Diego was a young and immature football team that was learning how to win. The Chargers are still immature, but they are veterans who know how to win must win games(most of the time), while the Broncos are that young team that is trying to figure out how to win football games. 2007 was to the Broncos what 2005 was to the Chargers. The Chargers are passing their prime now, while the Broncos are on the cusp of entering their prime. Either way it should be a good football game and next year Charger fans will have no more excuses to give for their team failing.
This is my GAP, there are many like it but this one is mine. Without my GAP I am useless, without me, they will run through my GAP. I will protect my GAP and have my brothers back on his. I will not be moved from my GAP, I am a crazed dog that patrols this area and will defeat all who entire it. I own this GAP, it is mine. I bought it with blood and sweat. I will not be pushed. I will not be moved. This Sunday I will make a stand and a statement.
by Zappa on
Dec 23, 2008 11:49 AM MST
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I’m not the one who refuses to accept reality. That would be your friend, Zappa. The Chargers were beaten soundly that day. You’ll get no argument from me as long as you accept reality and make reasoned arguments.
Bolts from the Blue // "It is what it is." - A.J. Smith
Bloody Elbow // "Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." - H.L. Mencken
by Richard Wade on
Dec 23, 2008 1:59 PM MST
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You are a supreme arguing force, dear sir.
I just visited Bolts from the Blue and I was astonished to find Plato’s Republic fully realized. ; )
"Choose the sword, and you will join me. Choose the ball and you join your mother, in death. You don’t understand my words, but you must choose. So… come boy, choose life or death."
by ButteBronco on
Dec 23, 2008 2:51 PM MST
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I am in firm control of reality.
I just chose not to buy into your “reality”.
This is my GAP, there are many like it but this one is mine. Without my GAP I am useless, without me, they will run through my GAP. I will protect my GAP and have my brothers back on his. I will not be moved from my GAP, I am a crazed dog that patrols this area and will defeat all who entire it. I own this GAP, it is mine. I bought it with blood and sweat. I will not be pushed. I will not be moved. This Sunday I will make a stand and a statement.
by Zappa on
Dec 23, 2008 2:54 PM MST
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What would seem worse to the MSN guys
A 9-7 win Bronco team or an 8-8 chargers team making the playoffs. My guess is that MSN would gloss over the chargers record since they are one of MSNs “precious” – Gollum.
Victor Frankl:
What man actually needs is not a tensionless state but rather the striving and struggling for some goal worthy of him. What he needs is not the discharge of tension at any cost, but the call of a potential meaning waiting to be fulfilled by him.
Everything can be taken from a man but one thing: the last of the human freedoms – to choose one’s attitude in any given set of circumstances, to choose one’s own way.
by wyoeng on
Dec 22, 2008 8:28 AM MST
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Uhm, er...
“MSM” (main stream media).
"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe
by hoosierteacher on
Dec 22, 2008 10:15 AM MST
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Sorry
MSN is the primary media i compare MHR to. It lets me know how good it is here.
Victor Frankl:
What man actually needs is not a tensionless state but rather the striving and struggling for some goal worthy of him. What he needs is not the discharge of tension at any cost, but the call of a potential meaning waiting to be fulfilled by him.
Everything can be taken from a man but one thing: the last of the human freedoms – to choose one’s attitude in any given set of circumstances, to choose one’s own way.
by wyoeng on
Dec 22, 2008 5:29 PM MST
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MSN?
"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe
by hoosierteacher on
Dec 23, 2008 3:53 AM MST
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MicroSoft Network?
"It's all over Fat Man" - Tom Jackson to John Madden 1977 AFC Championship Game
"Superman wears Peyton Hillis pajamas" - FlaBronco
by DesertBroncoFan on
Dec 23, 2008 11:18 AM MST
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Foxsports
Victor Frankl:
What man actually needs is not a tensionless state but rather the striving and struggling for some goal worthy of him. What he needs is not the discharge of tension at any cost, but the call of a potential meaning waiting to be fulfilled by him.
Everything can be taken from a man but one thing: the last of the human freedoms – to choose one’s attitude in any given set of circumstances, to choose one’s own way.
by wyoeng on
Dec 23, 2008 2:06 PM MST
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Yes Virginia, 'MAYBE' there is a win.....
But, I’ll even settle for sixty minutes of ‘INTENSITY’ played football from both sides of the team. When the game is over I’d like to say ‘they gave all, and left everything on the field’. This team may not be built for ‘smash mouth’, but even seeing that level of effort would be satisfying.
by rockymtnfan on
Dec 22, 2008 8:28 AM MST
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If effort is a problem i week 17 I'll be really concerned for the future stars of this team
I cannot think of a situation, where a team should be more motivated than going to their most hated rivals, playing for their pride and a playoff berth in front af a national audience. The implications of a loss are just unimaginable.
by Jeeeeens on
Dec 22, 2008 8:57 AM MST
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The game was just heart breaking
Our defence was run over, and I wonder if a big part of it is, that our players just haven’t “jelled” because of all the injuries?
Also, the coaches should just script the whole damn game. Our scripted driwes usually works pretty well.
by Jeeeeens on
Dec 22, 2008 8:57 AM MST
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To many situations begin to develop as the game goes on...
…to script too far into a game.
"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe
by hoosierteacher on
Dec 22, 2008 10:17 AM MST
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I'm still too angry to jump on the rah rah bandwagon.
fubar. I will say, win or lose this weekend; 2008 was an overall success. I am not one of those guys that can remain objective after a loss. Especially after this last loss…give me a few days.
This is my GAP, there are many like it but this one is mine. Without my GAP I am useless, without me, they will run through my GAP. I will protect my GAP and have my brothers back on his. I will not be moved from my GAP, I am a crazed dog that patrols this area and will defeat all who entire it. I own this GAP, it is mine. I bought it with blood and sweat. I will not be pushed. I will not be moved. This Sunday I will make a stand and a statement.
by Zappa on
Dec 22, 2008 9:09 AM MST
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True that.
Frustration is setting in. At least they had a chance to tie at the end? Someone help me out here. I am choking as a fan.
by precisiontint on
Dec 22, 2008 9:12 AM MST
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Me is thinkin' some of this analysis belongs at the owners feet...
Is ‘PB’ putting any heat on ‘Shanny’ ? Maybe ’PB’s’ convinced the ‘Infinite Monkey Theorem’ to produce a winner will prove out someday…….just ‘wait until next year’…..
by rockymtnfan on
Dec 22, 2008 9:27 AM MST
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I'm not willing to throw Shanny under the bus...
he has a young football team and we have used up about 8 running backs this year, yet still find ourselves in the playoff hunt going into the final week. Getting rid of Shanny will all but ensure we RUIN Cutler the way the 49ers have ruined Alex Smith, the way the Cardinals have ruined Matt Leinart, and the way the Browns WILL ruin Brady Quinn.
I have faith that Pat Bowlen knows enough about football to understand how young team develops…we are going to get there and Shanny will make sure of it. Or would you rather we fire Shanny and bring in Norv Turner next year? lol
This is my GAP, there are many like it but this one is mine. Without my GAP I am useless, without me, they will run through my GAP. I will protect my GAP and have my brothers back on his. I will not be moved from my GAP, I am a crazed dog that patrols this area and will defeat all who entire it. I own this GAP, it is mine. I bought it with blood and sweat. I will not be pushed. I will not be moved. This Sunday I will make a stand and a statement.
by Zappa on
Dec 22, 2008 9:50 AM MST
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Zappa....
……getting there is not the question ; ‘when is’ . Even I believe in the ‘Monkey Theorem’. Some injuries are ‘bad breaks’, no pun intended. Some can be the results of player choice or conditioning; does either apply to the team injury numbers ?. The number of injuries this team has suffered, even just at running back indicates something to me besides bad luck.
With tongue in cheek ; how about a ‘Singletary’. He maybe of the old ‘smash mouth’ school, but who can say for sure that’s not what’s needed……maybe by the time ‘Shanny’ gets the team to come around , it maybe in time for the ‘East Coast Offense’….LOL
Whatever happened to the ‘buck stops here’ responsibility ?……….’wait’ll next year’
by rockymtnfan on
Dec 22, 2008 10:26 AM MST
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Singletary is the exception in my mind. The only guy I would have been comfortable with to replace Shanny is already
a head coach for the Houston Texans. Just remember, the Chargers fired Marty after a 14-2 season and they have been Norv’d ever since. If you want to dump Shanny, then who would you hire to replace him? Name someone…. :)
I won’t say I have not questioned some of the things Shanny has done this year or last, but you have to look at the bigger picture. We have one of the youngest football teams in the league and a defense that just can’t find an identity…add that to our running back carousel and I just don’t see how firing Shanny will fix any of these problems. Firing Shanny may, in fact, make these problems worse because whatever plan Shanny was following to rectify the situation will be thrown out and we will start over from scratch. Which means it is 2006 again and we are 5 years away from where we will want to be.
I just can’t condone a major shake up in management at such a crucial period in this teams development. Look at the records of teams with long term head coaches compared to teams that fire their coaches every couple of years. Singletary is bucking the real trend.
This is my GAP, there are many like it but this one is mine. Without my GAP I am useless, without me, they will run through my GAP. I will protect my GAP and have my brothers back on his. I will not be moved from my GAP, I am a crazed dog that patrols this area and will defeat all who entire it. I own this GAP, it is mine. I bought it with blood and sweat. I will not be pushed. I will not be moved. This Sunday I will make a stand and a statement.
by Zappa on
Dec 22, 2008 10:34 AM MST
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I still don’t understand this mindless “Norv’d” talk. In Turner’s first season as the head coach, the Chargers won two more playoff games than they did during Schottenheimer’s entire tenure. This season, they would have already won consecutive division titles were it not for a blown call against your Broncos earlier in the season.
I also think you’re right that the Broncos shouldn’t try to replace “Shanny.” I’d love to see him out of the division.
Bolts from the Blue // "It is what it is." - A.J. Smith
Bloody Elbow // "Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." - H.L. Mencken
by Richard Wade on
Dec 22, 2008 9:47 PM MST
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From my understanding
being Norv’d has more to do with his work in Washington and then oakland. i think most guys feel like he is a fine offensive coordinator. As to the Charger’s getting Norv’d, when he was hired, i think people sat back and said, lets see if the team inevitably gets ’norv’d’ now. The slow start last year became ‘proof’ of being norv’d, and then, when the Charger’s eventually got into the swing of things, the loss in the playoffs became ‘proof’ of being norv’d. The rough road this year gets called norv’d because it looked helpless (which i think is what being norv’d really means: helpless).
Is it really about being norv’d? Maybe. It is to us, because we are looking for reasons for it to be a norving. Outside of this little corner of the world, I doubt anybody cares, and frankly, most of the time I don’t care either. There is a shortage of top level coaching talent in this league, and I am just glad we aren’t searching for replacements right now…
Concision in style, precision in thought, decision in life.
by styg50 on
Dec 22, 2008 10:43 PM MST
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and I just noticed your reference to the hochuli
you’ll understand if no one here cares or agrees that any division titles would have been settled based on a refs call in week two, right? In the aftermath of that MHR was a place where it was freely admitted that it was a bogus call that benefitted the Broncos, but we will never back down from the idea that the game, and the season, goes on, and that teams need to find ways to put that kind of stuff behind them.
Concision in style, precision in thought, decision in life.
by styg50 on
Dec 22, 2008 10:50 PM MST
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The team does need to go and I suspect they have, but there’s no reason for the fan base to let it go. All other things equal, if the Chargers had won that game (which they deserved to) this week’s game would mean nothing.
Bolts from the Blue // "It is what it is." - A.J. Smith
Bloody Elbow // "Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." - H.L. Mencken
by Richard Wade on
Dec 22, 2008 10:57 PM MST
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you will get no sympathy here.
Your team had 14 more chances to rebound. Now we are here. Get over it.
This is my GAP, there are many like it but this one is mine. Without my GAP I am useless, without me, they will run through my GAP. I will protect my GAP and have my brothers back on his. I will not be moved from my GAP, I am a crazed dog that patrols this area and will defeat all who entire it. I own this GAP, it is mine. I bought it with blood and sweat. I will not be pushed. I will not be moved. This Sunday I will make a stand and a statement.
by Zappa on
Dec 22, 2008 11:32 PM MST
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I’m not looking for sympathy.
Bolts from the Blue // "It is what it is." - A.J. Smith
Bloody Elbow // "Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." - H.L. Mencken
by Richard Wade on
Dec 22, 2008 11:33 PM MST
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What are you looking for then?
This is my GAP, there are many like it but this one is mine. Without my GAP I am useless, without me, they will run through my GAP. I will protect my GAP and have my brothers back on his. I will not be moved from my GAP, I am a crazed dog that patrols this area and will defeat all who entire it. I own this GAP, it is mine. I bought it with blood and sweat. I will not be pushed. I will not be moved. This Sunday I will make a stand and a statement.
by Zappa on
Dec 22, 2008 11:34 PM MST
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Intelligent conversation. I found it with styg50.
Bolts from the Blue // "It is what it is." - A.J. Smith
Bloody Elbow // "Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." - H.L. Mencken
by Richard Wade on
Dec 23, 2008 10:42 AM MST
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Then email him.
This is my GAP, there are many like it but this one is mine. Without my GAP I am useless, without me, they will run through my GAP. I will protect my GAP and have my brothers back on his. I will not be moved from my GAP, I am a crazed dog that patrols this area and will defeat all who entire it. I own this GAP, it is mine. I bought it with blood and sweat. I will not be pushed. I will not be moved. This Sunday I will make a stand and a statement.
by Zappa on
Dec 23, 2008 11:27 AM MST
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hahahahahahah
oh man! The back and forth between you two is GREAT! “Then email him.” HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Check out the website listed below...
by EastCoastBronco on
Dec 23, 2008 1:09 PM MST
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I'm here all week! daadadaching. ;-)
This is my GAP, there are many like it but this one is mine. Without my GAP I am useless, without me, they will run through my GAP. I will protect my GAP and have my brothers back on his. I will not be moved from my GAP, I am a crazed dog that patrols this area and will defeat all who entire it. I own this GAP, it is mine. I bought it with blood and sweat. I will not be pushed. I will not be moved. This Sunday I will make a stand and a statement.
by Zappa on
Dec 23, 2008 1:30 PM MST
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This is what I was talking about earlier. Your inability to remain civil while disagreeing reflects poorly on MHR, which is otherwise a tremendous blog.
Bolts from the Blue // "It is what it is." - A.J. Smith
Bloody Elbow // "Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." - H.L. Mencken
by Richard Wade on
Dec 23, 2008 2:01 PM MST
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Ed Hochuli.
I responded to an insult with an insult. I won’t go over to the Bolts from the Blue because I know I won’t be civil to Charger fans. For some reason, I can talk merrily and make friends with any other fans….Charger fans just rub me the wrong way. Maybe its because I lived there for many years and most of my family are Charger fans…but hearing the incessant whining and complaining year after year gets old.
If you hadn’t brought up Ed Hochuli over and over again then none of this would have happened. Bronco fans will never listen to it and you were asked over and over again to drop it. By the time the discourse switched to actual football there was no way any mutual respect could have developed between us. Cause and effect. Perhaps now you will understand what I meant about that.
This is my GAP, there are many like it but this one is mine. Without my GAP I am useless, without me, they will run through my GAP. I will protect my GAP and have my brothers back on his. I will not be moved from my GAP, I am a crazed dog that patrols this area and will defeat all who entire it. I own this GAP, it is mine. I bought it with blood and sweat. I will not be pushed. I will not be moved. This Sunday I will make a stand and a statement.
by Zappa on
Dec 23, 2008 2:38 PM MST
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"...if the Chargers had won that game (which they deserved to)..."
Richard, get real. The Chargers did nothing to cause Cutler to drop the ball. He wasn’t rushed at all, just a fluke play. And, while y’all are whining about the call, remind yourselves that it did cost Denver a down and six or seven yards.
Then, the Chargers still had the opportunity to stop Denver from scoring on 4th down. But, as you know, the Chargers failed.
To bear up under loss, to fight the bitterness of defeat and the weakness of grief, to be victor over anger, to smile when tears are close, to resist evil men and base instincts, to hate evil and to love love, to go on when it would seem good to die, to seek after the glory and the dream, to look up with unquenchable faith in something evermore about to be, that is what any man can do, and so be great.
Zane Grey
by bradley on
Dec 23, 2008 9:11 AM MST
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Taking advantage of the opponents’ failure is part of the game. The Chargers recovered his fumble. That should have been enough.
The Broncos never should have had the opportunity to go for it on 4th down. As you’ll recall, Cutler failed on the play before when he turned the ball over and lost the game.
Bolts from the Blue // "It is what it is." - A.J. Smith
Bloody Elbow // "Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." - H.L. Mencken
by Richard Wade on
Dec 23, 2008 10:44 AM MST
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"...that should have been..." "...Broncos never should have had..."
Yes, taking advantage of the opponents’ failure is part of the game. So is taking advantage of mistakes by the refs, which the Broncos did. Refs are not there to be perfect, tho they try. They do make mistakes, and in this case the Broncos took advantage. If you want to deal with reality, you shouldn’t say that “Cutler…lost the game.”
I would like to say that I find your comments on this and another thread to be intelligent and fair. But y’all need to put the Hochuli behind you. As Gus in Lonesome Dove said, if you don’t put it behind you, you’ll be walking backwards the rest of your life.
To bear up under loss, to fight the bitterness of defeat and the weakness of grief, to be victor over anger, to smile when tears are close, to resist evil men and base instincts, to hate evil and to love love, to go on when it would seem good to die, to seek after the glory and the dream, to look up with unquenchable faith in something evermore about to be, that is what any man can do, and so be great.
Zane Grey
by bradley on
Dec 23, 2008 11:20 AM MST
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Fair point. Taking advantage of the referees’ mistakes is part of the game, but I would add unfortunately so. The game ought to be decided by the players on the field, not the referees. When that isn’t what happens, that’s wrong.
Also, another fair point with regard to my phrasing of “Cutler lost the game” not jiving with my insistence on reality. I should have phrased it, “Cutler lost the game, but was saved by an errant whistle.”
Great quote. I’ll put it behind me if my Chargers win this weekend.
Bolts from the Blue // "It is what it is." - A.J. Smith
Bloody Elbow // "Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." - H.L. Mencken
by Richard Wade on
Dec 23, 2008 2:06 PM MST
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"Great Quote. I'll put it behind me if my Chargers win..."
But what will you do if the Broncos win?
To bear up under loss, to fight the bitterness of defeat and the weakness of grief, to be victor over anger, to smile when tears are close, to resist evil men and base instincts, to hate evil and to love love, to go on when it would seem good to die, to seek after the glory and the dream, to look up with unquenchable faith in something evermore about to be, that is what any man can do, and so be great.
Zane Grey
by bradley on
Dec 23, 2008 2:08 PM MST
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And for the record
before getting norv’d it was all about Martyball, so bottom line, opponent’s fans will always have something in store.
Concision in style, precision in thought, decision in life.
by styg50 on
Dec 22, 2008 10:44 PM MST
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Neither are just the opponents’ fans. I’m annoyed by talk of being “Norv’d” because I hear it from Charger fans constantly. As for Martyball, that’s very real. His brand of not taking risks and running down the clock at all times makes bad teams better and good teams worse. That’s why I feel his teams tended to be more successful in the regular season than the post season.
Bolts from the Blue // "It is what it is." - A.J. Smith
Bloody Elbow // "Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." - H.L. Mencken
by Richard Wade on
Dec 22, 2008 10:59 PM MST
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Being Norv's is quite real as well.. lol
This is my GAP, there are many like it but this one is mine. Without my GAP I am useless, without me, they will run through my GAP. I will protect my GAP and have my brothers back on his. I will not be moved from my GAP, I am a crazed dog that patrols this area and will defeat all who entire it. I own this GAP, it is mine. I bought it with blood and sweat. I will not be pushed. I will not be moved. This Sunday I will make a stand and a statement.
by Zappa on
Dec 22, 2008 11:33 PM MST
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The Chargers have been a better football team under Turner than they were under Schottenheimer. What he did in his previous coach stints is of no interest to me.
Bolts from the Blue // "It is what it is." - A.J. Smith
Bloody Elbow // "Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." - H.L. Mencken
by Richard Wade on
Dec 22, 2008 11:34 PM MST
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Ok. And they will still not win a Super Bowl.
This is my GAP, there are many like it but this one is mine. Without my GAP I am useless, without me, they will run through my GAP. I will protect my GAP and have my brothers back on his. I will not be moved from my GAP, I am a crazed dog that patrols this area and will defeat all who entire it. I own this GAP, it is mine. I bought it with blood and sweat. I will not be pushed. I will not be moved. This Sunday I will make a stand and a statement.
by Zappa on
Dec 22, 2008 11:34 PM MST
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I think that is the key to being Norv'd
that a team will never win a conference championship… or am I thinking of Marty again???
Concision in style, precision in thought, decision in life.
by styg50 on
Dec 22, 2008 11:47 PM MST
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works both ways.
This is my GAP, there are many like it but this one is mine. Without my GAP I am useless, without me, they will run through my GAP. I will protect my GAP and have my brothers back on his. I will not be moved from my GAP, I am a crazed dog that patrols this area and will defeat all who entire it. I own this GAP, it is mine. I bought it with blood and sweat. I will not be pushed. I will not be moved. This Sunday I will make a stand and a statement.
by Zappa on
Dec 22, 2008 11:50 PM MST
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That’s Schottenheimer. Just replace conference championship with “any playoff game.”
Bolts from the Blue // "It is what it is." - A.J. Smith
Bloody Elbow // "Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." - H.L. Mencken
by Richard Wade on
Dec 23, 2008 10:46 AM MST
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You could be thinking of
Coryell by that definition.
"Football is a physical sport, sometimes you have a disagreement on what's going on, and you have a discussion about it." Kris Dielman
by Brian (DaBolts) on
Dec 23, 2008 1:43 PM MST
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Coryell defined a completely new offensive system.
To me that’s a difference. Every spread offense or west coast offense has a little Coryell in it. I don’t think Marty or Norvy has created anything long standing. I actually respect Coryell, but I think that’s because I was born a Charger fan, but had fallen in love with the Broncos by age 5 and never looked back. Good to see you DaBolts…long time. You’re boy over here is driving me a bit nutty with his reasoning and inability to reason with anyone else’s reason. :P
This is my GAP, there are many like it but this one is mine. Without my GAP I am useless, without me, they will run through my GAP. I will protect my GAP and have my brothers back on his. I will not be moved from my GAP, I am a crazed dog that patrols this area and will defeat all who entire it. I own this GAP, it is mine. I bought it with blood and sweat. I will not be pushed. I will not be moved. This Sunday I will make a stand and a statement.
by Zappa on
Dec 23, 2008 2:42 PM MST
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Right
I’m just saying a championship is perhaps too one dimensional a yardstick. A lot of fine players and coaches don’t get there. Coryell stands above Norv and Marty right now; I’m just saying you can’t make a complete evaluation on that. It’s interesting that neither Oakland nor Washington was better after Norv; so they either both got another terrible coach or perhaps coaching wasn’t the whole problem.
Richard is a good guy; you both have strong opinions.
"Football is a physical sport, sometimes you have a disagreement on what's going on, and you have a discussion about it." Kris Dielman
by Brian (DaBolts) on
Dec 23, 2008 2:59 PM MST
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I agree that coaching wasn't the problem in either Oakland or Washington...
but you have to admit that the Chargers have been lack luster in the regular season since firing Marty. I would have been more impressed if they had fired Marty and hired Parcells or something. But Norv Turner?? come on! ;-)
This is my GAP, there are many like it but this one is mine. Without my GAP I am useless, without me, they will run through my GAP. I will protect my GAP and have my brothers back on his. I will not be moved from my GAP, I am a crazed dog that patrols this area and will defeat all who entire it. I own this GAP, it is mine. I bought it with blood and sweat. I will not be pushed. I will not be moved. This Sunday I will make a stand and a statement.
by Zappa on
Dec 23, 2008 3:12 PM MST
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They had a look at it last year. They lost the conference title game because of injuries to Gates, Rivers and Tomlinson. Not coaching.
Bolts from the Blue // "It is what it is." - A.J. Smith
Bloody Elbow // "Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." - H.L. Mencken
by Richard Wade on
Dec 23, 2008 10:45 AM MST
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Not really.
Despite the injuries you guys still were able to move the ball inside the 20-yard line three times, however you were only able to come away with FGs. It’s not injuries because your backups put together a game winning drive at Indy the week before. NE stepped up and stopped you in the Red Zone.
"It doesn't dissipate" ~ Mike Shanahan
Cutler's 4th qtr/OT game winning drives: 9
by weazel on
Dec 24, 2008 2:21 PM MST
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Norv'd means Norv's. Only fans outside of the Norv'd affect areas can understand what I mean. ;-)
This is my GAP, there are many like it but this one is mine. Without my GAP I am useless, without me, they will run through my GAP. I will protect my GAP and have my brothers back on his. I will not be moved from my GAP, I am a crazed dog that patrols this area and will defeat all who entire it. I own this GAP, it is mine. I bought it with blood and sweat. I will not be pushed. I will not be moved. This Sunday I will make a stand and a statement.
by Zappa on
Dec 22, 2008 11:16 PM MST
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I think it's just fans still bewildered by the firing of a 14-2 head coach. lol
It’s almost as if losing in the regular season is justice to Marty.
This is my GAP, there are many like it but this one is mine. Without my GAP I am useless, without me, they will run through my GAP. I will protect my GAP and have my brothers back on his. I will not be moved from my GAP, I am a crazed dog that patrols this area and will defeat all who entire it. I own this GAP, it is mine. I bought it with blood and sweat. I will not be pushed. I will not be moved. This Sunday I will make a stand and a statement.
by Zappa on
Dec 22, 2008 11:31 PM MST
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I think the issue is people forget why he was fired. The owner told him not to bring in his brother for an interview. Marty basically told the owner to go screw himself and brought in his brother for an interview. Thus, he was fired.
Bolts from the Blue // "It is what it is." - A.J. Smith
Bloody Elbow // "Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." - H.L. Mencken
by Richard Wade on
Dec 22, 2008 11:32 PM MST
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True
But a nuanced look at how Martv got fired isn’t the background other fans have.
"Football is a physical sport, sometimes you have a disagreement on what's going on, and you have a discussion about it." Kris Dielman
by Brian (DaBolts) on
Dec 23, 2008 1:39 PM MST
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But really
The thing with bryan was the final nail in the coffin. Marty was pissed he only got a 1 year extension and anyone who lives here knew outside of winning the SuperBowl Marty was not coming back. When the HC and Gm are using intermdiaries to communicate back and forth the end for one of them is near. I was surprised Marty was even given an extension
somethings wrong, Trying to conquer these fears i thought were gone. And it's been so long, I'm dying to live in a world i don't belong
by broncfanstuckinsd on
Dec 23, 2008 8:27 PM MST
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A Nail Marty Hammered
Schottenheimer really worked over the franchise and it’s players leaving the way he did; if he didn’t want the extension he didn’t have to take it. He took the money and then got himself fired to pay for his retirement.
"Football is a physical sport, sometimes you have a disagreement on what's going on, and you have a discussion about it." Kris Dielman
by Brian (DaBolts) on
Dec 24, 2008 3:07 PM MST
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he did it on purpose
knowing that the chargers were gonna get hammered for it regardless.
its been fun talking back and forth with you this season Dabolt. Merry Christmas to you and yours. You are a classy charger fan. good luck to your team, but not that much luck. =)
somethings wrong, Trying to conquer these fears i thought were gone. And it's been so long, I'm dying to live in a world i don't belong
by broncfanstuckinsd on
Dec 24, 2008 6:25 PM MST
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Merry Christmas to you too!
"Football is a physical sport, sometimes you have a disagreement on what's going on, and you have a discussion about it." Kris Dielman
by Brian (DaBolts) on
Dec 25, 2008 11:14 AM MST
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And the problem with the Monkey Theorem...
Have you ever seen a monkey with a typewriter? He’s more likely to destroy it before he types anything at all. He’ll throw it and poop on it, and never get a chance to type out a Shakespearean sonnett. An infinite number of monkeys at an infinite number of typewriters over infinite time will never produce the desired result.
"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe
by hoosierteacher on
Dec 22, 2008 11:56 AM MST
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Classic!
If all else fails, poop on Phyllis Rivers! j/k heheh
This is my GAP, there are many like it but this one is mine. Without my GAP I am useless, without me, they will run through my GAP. I will protect my GAP and have my brothers back on his. I will not be moved from my GAP, I am a crazed dog that patrols this area and will defeat all who entire it. I own this GAP, it is mine. I bought it with blood and sweat. I will not be pushed. I will not be moved. This Sunday I will make a stand and a statement.
by Zappa on
Dec 22, 2008 12:48 PM MST
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Still think we are missing Hillis
Our inability to “punch it in” to finish off drives dates back to our loss of Hillis. Maybe next year we need to have Hillis and Torain and Pittman to make sure we have someone to grind out those tough yards.
"In the empty spaces - lacunae, vacuums, pauses, voids, black holes - new things begin. We are born anew from the unexplored space, the badlands, the outlaw territory." - Sam Keen
by spock on
Dec 22, 2008 9:33 AM MST
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I thought we would be okay...
but you’re right. Hillis was a huge loss.
"Choose the sword, and you will join me. Choose the ball and you join your mother, in death. You don’t understand my words, but you must choose. So… come boy, choose life or death."
by ButteBronco on
Dec 22, 2008 10:10 AM MST
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The root of our offensive troubles
will always be a lack of a running game. We miss Hillis, but we miss all of our RBs who have went down to injury. We can even legitimately say we miss Pope, since he was running with speed and power in the first quarter, and as soon as he went out with a hamstring injury, our running game went with him. Selvin was slower and less decisive than Pope (he is probably thinking way too much) and Tatum has never been decisive hitting the hole. Tatum runs well when a defensive assignment is missed, otherwise he just runs average, and average isn’t good enough.
The team had to lose a LOT of ground this year in order for Tatum to be considered a starter.
Concision in style, precision in thought, decision in life.
by styg50 on
Dec 22, 2008 12:21 PM MST
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Lets hope Selvin...
….can have a good game next Sunday. He’s a good guy, a real good RB, and he’s due.
To bear up under loss, to fight the bitterness of defeat and the weakness of grief, to be victor over anger, to smile when tears are close, to resist evil men and base instincts, to hate evil and to love love, to go on when it would seem good to die, to seek after the glory and the dream, to look up with unquenchable faith in something evermore about to be, that is what any man can do, and so be great.
Zane Grey
by bradley on
Dec 22, 2008 12:28 PM MST
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Selvin's fate in Denver is sealed.
He is only playing because we have no other options…same with Tatum.
This is my GAP, there are many like it but this one is mine. Without my GAP I am useless, without me, they will run through my GAP. I will protect my GAP and have my brothers back on his. I will not be moved from my GAP, I am a crazed dog that patrols this area and will defeat all who entire it. I own this GAP, it is mine. I bought it with blood and sweat. I will not be pushed. I will not be moved. This Sunday I will make a stand and a statement.
by Zappa on
Dec 22, 2008 12:49 PM MST
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Selvin
And now I hear Selvin is on IR, along with Pope.
To bear up under loss, to fight the bitterness of defeat and the weakness of grief, to be victor over anger, to smile when tears are close, to resist evil men and base instincts, to hate evil and to love love, to go on when it would seem good to die, to seek after the glory and the dream, to look up with unquenchable faith in something evermore about to be, that is what any man can do, and so be great.
Zane Grey
by bradley on
Dec 22, 2008 2:44 PM MST
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IR = Injured RUNNINGBACKS?
Don’t we have like 8 running backs in IR?
This is my GAP, there are many like it but this one is mine. Without my GAP I am useless, without me, they will run through my GAP. I will protect my GAP and have my brothers back on his. I will not be moved from my GAP, I am a crazed dog that patrols this area and will defeat all who entire it. I own this GAP, it is mine. I bought it with blood and sweat. I will not be pushed. I will not be moved. This Sunday I will make a stand and a statement.
by Zappa on
Dec 22, 2008 2:52 PM MST
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You have to think that losing 5 or more running backs is going to hurt your team. Next year when we have all of our running backs back, then we will dominate.
by broncoholic on
Dec 22, 2008 9:37 AM MST
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Hmmmmmm......
…….maybe, if we don’t start off like ‘NE’ did this year…..IMO, few QB’s stay health forever….. I know, think positive…..’wait’ll next year’.
by rockymtnfan on
Dec 22, 2008 10:32 AM MST
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Did you really think this team was bound for anything but a one and done in the first round in 2008?
Think of the experience our guys are getting by playing in big time games in big time situations. Every win and every loss this season has been a building block. My expectations aren’t even really that high for next year. 2010 is the year I expect a Championship from this team…so long as Shanny stays on the track he is following through the draft.
This is my GAP, there are many like it but this one is mine. Without my GAP I am useless, without me, they will run through my GAP. I will protect my GAP and have my brothers back on his. I will not be moved from my GAP, I am a crazed dog that patrols this area and will defeat all who entire it. I own this GAP, it is mine. I bought it with blood and sweat. I will not be pushed. I will not be moved. This Sunday I will make a stand and a statement.
by Zappa on
Dec 22, 2008 10:36 AM MST
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Zappa.....
…………you’re a level headed , informative and supportitive fan. For the record I knew a few hunnert thousand of them that followed the ‘Monsters of the Midway’, during lean years and got their due. On the other hand I knew the same kind and numbers that followed ‘Luv ya’ blue’…..need I say more……a fan takes their chances.
Myself, I expected 8&8 this year. And I thought inconsistency would be a factor (you can put whatever reason you want on that, there seems reason(s) enough to go around) . For all the best laid plans, ‘Lady Luck’ will have her due next and the following years….tho’ I see some general concern about addressing team conditioning even showing up here…………. Believe me, I don’t want to feel like some ‘baseball fans’….’wait’ll next year’.
I’ll be more than satisfied with this year, if they play competitively and leave it all on the field this coming weekend….no more can a fan expect….
by rockymtnfan on
Dec 22, 2008 11:19 AM MST
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Thank you, but
If you expected 8 and 8 this year then why do you want to see Shanny canned? I am having trouble following the logic there. 8 and 8 rarely sees the playoffs, so you should have been expecting a wait til next year type of ending. ;-)
This is my GAP, there are many like it but this one is mine. Without my GAP I am useless, without me, they will run through my GAP. I will protect my GAP and have my brothers back on his. I will not be moved from my GAP, I am a crazed dog that patrols this area and will defeat all who entire it. I own this GAP, it is mine. I bought it with blood and sweat. I will not be pushed. I will not be moved. This Sunday I will make a stand and a statement.
by Zappa on
Dec 22, 2008 11:34 AM MST
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Rec'd
"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe
by hoosierteacher on
Dec 22, 2008 11:58 AM MST
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Zappa....
…..different strokes, different fans. Perhaps witout Shanny I may have thought 10&6. I don’t judge a season solely by the end results. I plunk my money down, spend a few hours of my life, EVERY WEEKEND, and expect nothing more of my team than they be competitive…….with some consistency on a game to game basis. I find no joy in guessing who’s going to show up and play on any given weekend. The post season is gravy and as a goal fine…as reality for most teams it is not….so sayeth the playoff terms….Myself, I’d trade one or two weeks in the playoffs for an exciting 16 weeks anytime.
I think ’Shanny’s’ had his day in the sun. Is he still interested in winning, sure . Is he still hungry….we’ll that’s a heck of a house he’s built ; LMRO. Me thinks his day has come and gone…on a game to game basis, not just a post seasonal scorecard……..
by rockymtnfan on
Dec 22, 2008 12:01 PM MST
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Zappa....PS
…let’s leave it at, for me ; ’It’s not all in the winning or losing, it’s how you played the game."
by rockymtnfan on
Dec 22, 2008 12:34 PM MST
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How did the Detroit Lions fare without a running game and no defense?
I just think you underestimate how instrumental Mike Shanahan has been in our “average” season. I have tons of respect for Rod Marinelli, but he is not the coach that Mike Shanahan is. I guess we will agree to disagree about the importance of Mike Shanahan in the successes of this football team. He coached one hell of a season. -15 turnover differential, no running game, no defense, poor field position, ect ect ect…yet we are 8-7 with a chance to win the AFC West. Are you kidding me?! lol
Still the Buffalo loss stung badly…but it was the first CLOSE game where we blew it in the fourth quarter. Cutler has 6 comebacks this year…in 8 wins. Not bad.
This is my GAP, there are many like it but this one is mine. Without my GAP I am useless, without me, they will run through my GAP. I will protect my GAP and have my brothers back on his. I will not be moved from my GAP, I am a crazed dog that patrols this area and will defeat all who entire it. I own this GAP, it is mine. I bought it with blood and sweat. I will not be pushed. I will not be moved. This Sunday I will make a stand and a statement.
by Zappa on
Dec 22, 2008 12:53 PM MST
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Yes......we'll disagree....
……and, every coach has to play the hand he’s dealt. ….That’s their job. Coaches coach, players play…..but, it’s the coach with the game plan and the responsibility of not only executing it, but getting his players up for it. Can’t remember a game into any season played where one side of the field didn’t have issues to deal with. Theres some ‘HS’ teams in this state that could have avoided the latter ‘Oakland’ and ‘KC’ debacles better…lol
Cutler is good and has the capability to be great, no arguement….if he stays healthy. Besides physical skills I think he shows mental fire and temperment. When it comes to QB character. I watched Moon for many years set record after record, never really win the big ones. After being sacked by a couple of three hundred pound linemen, he’d pick himself up, walk back to the huddle, call the next play. I’ve seen ‘Kelly’ in the same situation get back in the huddle and with a raised voice or two express his thoughts….I see a little ‘Kelly’ in Jay, and I’m pleased as a fan.
Shanny’s had his chance now , and only by the grace of the football god’s and Bolwlen this year, will he earn further tolerance…..JMO
by rockymtnfan on
Dec 22, 2008 1:45 PM MST
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Could you explain to me what your ideal situation would be if Bowlen did fire Shanny at the end of the season?
In my view, Shanny has done more with less than any other coach in the league. I’m just trying to understand how you think canning Mike Shanahan would improve our chances of winning football games. Take this weekend for example…what guy out there would give us a better chance to win next week’s game than Mike Shanahan? That’s all. I don’t necessarily disagree with you permanently, but it would be nice to get some perspective on how firing Shanny might achieve these goals. Do you just want to fire him for firing sake? Do you think firing him will give us a better chance at winning, then please tell me how or tell me who would make a better coach after his departure. Keep in mind also that Shanny getting fired means we will likely have 100% turnover in the rest of our coaching staff as well… From where I sit that would be a disaster of monumental proportions. I want to understand the reasoning first and foremost…because firing a coach isn’t something you do adhoc. It just seems like your mentality is more emotional than objective. I am open to agreeing with you, but you haven’t really given me much reason to agree.
As for Jay Cutler, hell ya I am pleased as a fan. Without him, Mike Shanahan is coaching a 4-12 football team, at best. My only concern with him is his tendency to force the ball. That tendency has earned him comparisons to Brett Favre and I really don’t want that. I want him to continue to develop. Elway used to force balls too, but he grew out of that as he developed whereas Favre never did. I hope Cutler does. :)
This is my GAP, there are many like it but this one is mine. Without my GAP I am useless, without me, they will run through my GAP. I will protect my GAP and have my brothers back on his. I will not be moved from my GAP, I am a crazed dog that patrols this area and will defeat all who entire it. I own this GAP, it is mine. I bought it with blood and sweat. I will not be pushed. I will not be moved. This Sunday I will make a stand and a statement.
by Zappa on
Dec 22, 2008 2:06 PM MST
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The short answer.....
………..I subscribe to the sooner a problem is addressed, the sooner it’s fixed. Sadly, ‘Pro Football’ has become not only a great fan sport (tho’ always has been in my mind), but BIG money also (what are these franchises worth today ; a billion?)…and that includes the fans cost of the game. Try going to a game today for twenty bucks. With higher cost I believe higher expectations should come….at least from my armchair view. Wait to the end of the season ; maybe haha ? Seems tho’ not productive to achieve playoff status, resolutions of coaching problems have ben addressed in mid season ; yes? I think it’s happened even this year . Maybe higher expectations for all those in the sport would bring quicker problem solving, or better performance to avoid it……just speculating….‘at least we may kill the ’wait until next year’ syndrome’….lol
by rockymtnfan on
Dec 22, 2008 3:40 PM MST
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You'll get no disagreement with the way the NFL has become all about money....
but at least the Broncos rank in the Top 5 since the merger in winning percentage. ;-)
This is my GAP, there are many like it but this one is mine. Without my GAP I am useless, without me, they will run through my GAP. I will protect my GAP and have my brothers back on his. I will not be moved from my GAP, I am a crazed dog that patrols this area and will defeat all who entire it. I own this GAP, it is mine. I bought it with blood and sweat. I will not be pushed. I will not be moved. This Sunday I will make a stand and a statement.
by Zappa on
Dec 22, 2008 4:57 PM MST
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PSS
RE:’ Bolwlen ’ SORRY about that typo error, it was purely accidental, and no disrespect was meant !
by rockymtnfan on
Dec 22, 2008 1:49 PM MST
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It's all good. If I had a nickel for every time I wished I could edit my comments on here. lol
This is my GAP, there are many like it but this one is mine. Without my GAP I am useless, without me, they will run through my GAP. I will protect my GAP and have my brothers back on his. I will not be moved from my GAP, I am a crazed dog that patrols this area and will defeat all who entire it. I own this GAP, it is mine. I bought it with blood and sweat. I will not be pushed. I will not be moved. This Sunday I will make a stand and a statement.
by Zappa on
Dec 22, 2008 2:07 PM MST
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Its an useless argument
Because we all know there is no chance that Bowlen will get rid of Mike. But you also must look at the jog he has done. There is barely any talent on the defense yet the team is 8-7. Now if the Broncos get talent on the other side of the ball and in 2 seasons they are still 8-7 or there about, I could be a little more open about getting rid of Shanahan. But just to fire him because the team is 8-7 or is struggling. Crap the Chargers are in positon to win the West in spite of being Norved. If Marty was still the coach that team would have a better record. Like or hate Shanny but IMO this has been one of his best coaching jobs period. With all the injuries this team is about to play a home game in less than 2 weeks. (yes I believe Denver will win)
somethings wrong, Trying to conquer these fears i thought were gone. And it's been so long, I'm dying to live in a world i don't belong
by broncfanstuckinsd on
Dec 22, 2008 4:12 PM MST
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I'll be in san diego for this game too....dammit
my family wont let it go either if the Broncos lose. I hate them all sometimes. lol
This is my GAP, there are many like it but this one is mine. Without my GAP I am useless, without me, they will run through my GAP. I will protect my GAP and have my brothers back on his. I will not be moved from my GAP, I am a crazed dog that patrols this area and will defeat all who entire it. I own this GAP, it is mine. I bought it with blood and sweat. I will not be pushed. I will not be moved. This Sunday I will make a stand and a statement.
by Zappa on
Dec 22, 2008 4:58 PM MST
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I am so tired of the arrogance
I usually could care less about this team, but now I want Denver to kick some tail. Amazing for a team that has never won anything (except the 1963 AFL title) the fans are so damn cocky and think they are so good
somethings wrong, Trying to conquer these fears i thought were gone. And it's been so long, I'm dying to live in a world i don't belong
by broncfanstuckinsd on
Dec 23, 2008 11:27 AM MST
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that's because they are used to being bottom of the barrel.
Only a few more years and they will be back in the bottom of the barrel. I’d rather have the “classier” Raider and Chief fans battling it out with us for the division. As it should be.
This is my GAP, there are many like it but this one is mine. Without my GAP I am useless, without me, they will run through my GAP. I will protect my GAP and have my brothers back on his. I will not be moved from my GAP, I am a crazed dog that patrols this area and will defeat all who entire it. I own this GAP, it is mine. I bought it with blood and sweat. I will not be pushed. I will not be moved. This Sunday I will make a stand and a statement.
by Zappa on
Dec 23, 2008 11:30 AM MST
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I never ever thought I would say this
But until this season I thought the fader fans were the worst. But its clear they are just very good a loyal fans, no arrogance per se. I do long for the days when Denver/Oak/KC would always battle for the West. It will happen soon. Cuz imo those are the only 2 rivals the Broncos have in the AFC. (true rivals anyway)
somethings wrong, Trying to conquer these fears i thought were gone. And it's been so long, I'm dying to live in a world i don't belong
by broncfanstuckinsd on
Dec 23, 2008 11:54 AM MST
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The Chiefs are on the right track...the Faders will not recover until Davis is gone.
The Chargers are also trending downwards thanks to the idiot GM they have. the Chargers will go back to being like the Lions, Bungles, Cardinals, and Rams organizations. Horrible owners, horrible GMs, horrible football team. Mark my words.
This is my GAP, there are many like it but this one is mine. Without my GAP I am useless, without me, they will run through my GAP. I will protect my GAP and have my brothers back on his. I will not be moved from my GAP, I am a crazed dog that patrols this area and will defeat all who entire it. I own this GAP, it is mine. I bought it with blood and sweat. I will not be pushed. I will not be moved. This Sunday I will make a stand and a statement.
by Zappa on
Dec 23, 2008 11:58 AM MST
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i am with you
I cant wait for that to happen. Its part of the SD cycle. 3-4 good/decent years 10 years of blowing. Well their good cycle is at an end
somethings wrong, Trying to conquer these fears i thought were gone. And it's been so long, I'm dying to live in a world i don't belong
by broncfanstuckinsd on
Dec 23, 2008 12:47 PM MST
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broncfanstuckinsd....
good thoughts !!!!!!…..but, big money, big demands, never say never. There’s now far less loyalty all the way around….“The times, they are a changing.”. I (and I presume you) have seen owners sell teams right out of a town. What’s a little coaching change ?………it’s about ‘money’, that’s why they call it money…lol
.
by rockymtnfan on
Dec 22, 2008 4:58 PM MST
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see thats we disagree a bit
I think loyalty plays a big part in Bowlen keeping Shanny. Plus Mike has an excellent record beyond Elway. I dont base anything off what other owners do. I take what Mike and Bowlen say. Now if Mike wants to leave then I wish him luck. But as long as Denver shows improvement from year to year I honeslty dont see him going anywhere. But if he went would it surprise me, not at all. I just am a person who believes that until Mike gets the vote of confidence during the season he will stay
somethings wrong, Trying to conquer these fears i thought were gone. And it's been so long, I'm dying to live in a world i don't belong
by broncfanstuckinsd on
Dec 23, 2008 11:30 AM MST
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Shanny has done a great job....
As a HC. No doubt. But his job as a GM (although clouded in with his HC responsibilities) of choosing his staff, at the least, has to be questioned.
The structure is non sensical, Slowik is, and has been, over matched and out of his depth.
Jeremy Bates is young and full of potential yet the throw first mentality taken on by this team, is, in the extreme, suicidal.
Mike Shanahan seems NEVER to employ anyone on his staff that could be a threat to his authority. Its a worry.
We have an ELECTRIC team, and we need first class coaches, not hacks like Slowik.
We need HC style co-ordinators that will get the job done, and SHanahan, and Bowlen need to realize that they will be praised for bringing in guys like a Nolan, Phillips, Cam Cameron (cant believe we did not look at him)….guys that can get shit done.
Thats my biggest concern….our coaches have been clearly over matched with regards to schemeing and adjustments, and our young talented team deserves better!
Those that cant coach, compete!
Failing to plan is planning to fail.
by boydy2669 on
Dec 22, 2008 7:15 PM MST
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But thats the thing
Denver is talented offensively but not so much on the other side of the ball. Look I like some of the young players the Broncos have on defense, bit overall the defense is ranked #28 and have 2 bonafide great defensive players (champ and dj). Now lets see what Slo and company can do with a pash rusher and a DT that can cause havoc. I am not ready to fire Slo jsut yet. Lets see what he can do with talent. A guy doesnt last this long in the Not For Long without having some skills as a DC and position coach.
somethings wrong, Trying to conquer these fears i thought were gone. And it's been so long, I'm dying to live in a world i don't belong
by broncfanstuckinsd on
Dec 23, 2008 11:25 AM MST
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Totally agreed BFSISD...
I think Slowik has great strengths as a position coach. He is a great teacher and cares deeply for his players. Thats his strength, and theres NOTHING wrong with that.
I just dont think his skill set is as a game planner or co-ordinator.
I dont want SLo gone from the organization, just gone from being DC.
Happy X Mas man, and hope you have a good one!
Those that cant coach, compete!
Failing to plan is planning to fail.
by boydy2669 on
Dec 23, 2008 3:02 PM MST
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Should this team
Consider a different approach to strength and conditioning?
Signature to be named later.
by emd2k3 on
Dec 22, 2008 9:50 AM MST
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To put it simply. YES!
Hammies and groins all year long. uhg!
This is my GAP, there are many like it but this one is mine. Without my GAP I am useless, without me, they will run through my GAP. I will protect my GAP and have my brothers back on his. I will not be moved from my GAP, I am a crazed dog that patrols this area and will defeat all who entire it. I own this GAP, it is mine. I bought it with blood and sweat. I will not be pushed. I will not be moved. This Sunday I will make a stand and a statement.
by Zappa on
Dec 22, 2008 9:55 AM MST
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That's been a point of several posts and stories at MHR over the course of this season.
Check out the archives if you get a chance. I’ve been advocating an audit of the department by an independent sports medicine program.
And welcome!
"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe
by hoosierteacher on
Dec 22, 2008 10:20 AM MST
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Did you notice
In the monday presser Shannahan was asked about this and stated that every year they evaluate every aspect of the team and that, particularly with the hammy and groin injuries the past two years, the training staff would be evaluated.
Check out the website listed below...
by EastCoastBronco on
Dec 23, 2008 1:37 PM MST
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HT?
Aren’t you a defense guy?
Seems like you totally let the defense off the hook in your write up.
The defensive playcalling was horrible and this needs to be Slowik’s last game as a Broncos coach.
by PosterNutbag on
Dec 22, 2008 12:32 PM MST
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In a way, that goes without saying.
I guess we all just assumed everyone knows how bad our defense is. lol
This is my GAP, there are many like it but this one is mine. Without my GAP I am useless, without me, they will run through my GAP. I will protect my GAP and have my brothers back on his. I will not be moved from my GAP, I am a crazed dog that patrols this area and will defeat all who entire it. I own this GAP, it is mine. I bought it with blood and sweat. I will not be pushed. I will not be moved. This Sunday I will make a stand and a statement.
by Zappa on
Dec 22, 2008 12:54 PM MST
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The defensive execution
isn’t stellar either. I can’t speak for the damage I think would occur if we changed coaches at this point (it goes deeper than just what happens on the field in terms of scheme: there will be locker room and front office issues that arise as well), but I can say that the situation is far to dicey to just throw experiments out there of the magnitude of a coaching change.
The offseason is a better time to review these kinds of decisions, and to consider what options are available to solve them.
Concision in style, precision in thought, decision in life.
by styg50 on
Dec 22, 2008 1:23 PM MST
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Fair question. Here's why...
1) I have written dozens of stories or posts critical of the way the defense has been handled both this year and last. I think most folks have heard my points on what ails our defense to the point of getting sick.
2) I couldn’t watch the game (heard it on the radio), so there were only certain things I could evaluate. For instance, while I know from the radio that we abandoned the run game after the first quarter, I can’t tell you if the defense controlled their gaps, where they played the safeties, or even what side of the field the CBs were on. Radio folks focus on the ball, which gives a better picture of the offense.
3) If it makes you feel better, I am very much more critical of the defense than the offense.
"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe
by hoosierteacher on
Dec 22, 2008 1:32 PM MST
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Great post HT
Thanks for the perspectives.
It all starts in the trenches HT 11/11/08
by firstfan on
Dec 22, 2008 12:32 PM MST
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Nice post and merry christmas everyone...
… I’m going to try to get the taste of this game out of my mouth with as much eggnog as possilble! ; )
Jules: Tell 'em, Vincent.
Vincent: A (Eddie) Royale with cheese.
Jules: A (Eddie) Royale with cheese! You know why they call it that?
Brett: Because of the metric system?
Jules: Check out the big brain on Brett! You're a smart mother******. That's right. The metric system.
by Elway4Prez on
Dec 22, 2008 12:48 PM MST
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a little brandy in the eggnog
helps.
Concision in style, precision in thought, decision in life.
by styg50 on
Dec 22, 2008 1:24 PM MST
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Skip the eggnog.
Go straight to the brandy.
"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe
by hoosierteacher on
Dec 22, 2008 1:33 PM MST
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Thanks for the nice post HT
Victor Frankl:
What man actually needs is not a tensionless state but rather the striving and struggling for some goal worthy of him. What he needs is not the discharge of tension at any cost, but the call of a potential meaning waiting to be fulfilled by him.
Everything can be taken from a man but one thing: the last of the human freedoms – to choose one’s attitude in any given set of circumstances, to choose one’s own way.
by wyoeng on
Dec 22, 2008 1:59 PM MST
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Did we play two deep safties?
from someone who could see the game on TV….
by RiG on
Dec 22, 2008 5:09 PM MST
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I've been wondering the same thing.
"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe
by hoosierteacher on
Dec 23, 2008 3:58 AM MST
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Great picture, it got a rec
The positive stance was good too. Too many fans are “playing not to lose” instead of playing to win. We all just need to enjoy being in first place and look forward to watching our team step up this Sunday. At least we are never bored by our Broncos.
The future looks so bright that we're going to need blue and orange sunglasses!
by Arctic Bronco on
Dec 23, 2008 1:21 AM MST
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At first I thought it was a teletubbie being autopsied.
On closer inspection, you can clearly see it is Phylis.
"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe
by hoosierteacher on
Dec 23, 2008 3:59 AM MST
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What happened to the picture?
This is my GAP, there are many like it but this one is mine. Without my GAP I am useless, without me, they will run through my GAP. I will protect my GAP and have my brothers back on his. I will not be moved from my GAP, I am a crazed dog that patrols this area and will defeat all who entire it. I own this GAP, it is mine. I bought it with blood and sweat. I will not be pushed. I will not be moved. This Sunday I will make a stand and a statement.
by Zappa on
Dec 23, 2008 2:55 PM MST
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I thought it was just me
and my company’s VPN not allowing pictures from photobucket, imageshack, etc.
"It's all over Fat Man" - Tom Jackson to John Madden 1977 AFC Championship Game
"Superman wears Peyton Hillis pajamas" - FlaBronco
by DesertBroncoFan on
Dec 23, 2008 3:12 PM MST
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