Silver Linings are for Losers - Broncos Need To Address Shortcomings
There's no silver lining for the 2008 season. Don't tell me that it’s somehow poetic that the Broncos have to play San Diego for the AFC West next Sunday night. Don't tell me that the Broncos are anything better than an AFC version of the New Orleans Saints.
In fact, the Broncos aren't much different than the Kansas City Chiefs or Cleveland Browns. The difference is that Denver drafted Jay Cutler. Jay Cutler is the best young QB in the NFL. He's better than Big Ben. For a lot of this season he was better than Peyton Manning. But he's not there yet.

Jay Cutler should be headed to the Playoffs this year. He deserves it. Unfortunately for Jay, he happens to play for a team that doesn't deserve to play in the playoffs. Cutler will be (arguably, of course) the best QB in the league some day. He'll at least be in the conversation. But he has learning to do. He'd agree.
Two of the most glaring issues the team has to tackle in the off season are the same issues they've been trying to tackle for multiple off seasons. The most glaring is the defense. What's wrong with the defense? Scheme? Personnel? Coaching? Leadership? Or the Pu-Pu Platter of a little bit of all four?
Denver has lost its way on defense and doesn't have a single bright spot to take into 2009 other than young depth. In fact, I think there are more questions now than there were at this time last season. Last season it looked like Elvis Dumervil was a star in the making. It looked like Denver, at very least, had safeties and corners that were serviceable at worst. This season? No safeties. Champ is fighting to get through an injury. Dumervil has not only been a virtual non-factor, but a liability because of his size.
Dewayne Robertson hasn't made anybody forget Keith Traylor. Marcus Thomas hasn't created enough havoc or made enough plays to have a safe starting spot going into next season. In my opinion, DJ Williams is Denver's best linebacker, but the defense isn't better with him than it is with Wesley Woodyard. Why? Our Middle Linebacker slot is still open for discussion. Niko and Nate didn't earn a passing grade this year, and I'd be shocked if Denver didn't look long at a few linebackers in the draft. In fact, if Denver loses in week 17, the Broncos will draft in the top 15. That gives them a great slot for James Laurinaitis (LB), Taylor Mays (S), or my personal favorite, Peria Jerry (DT). Denver simply needs to strengthen the heart of its Defense. It's weak in the middle and strong on the perimeter. That's not going to stop anyone from doing anything. I truly hope that Mr. Bowlen and Coach Mike can make the right decision on who the leader of the defensive unit will be. There's something to be said for sticking with Slowick and the level of continuity that would bring, but is that the right thing to do? I don't have the answers and I can't tell you who Denver likes, doesn't like, or who will even be available to Denver. Only time will tell.
The second issue is the inability of the Denver Broncos to run the ball with any level of consistency. Denver looked like a carbon copy of the 2005 and 2006 versions of themselves on Sunday. Remember how that team could move the ball well, but stalled in the red zone? Much of that issue is simply that Denver can't get positive yardage in its running game. Denver has had some injury woes at running back, but in the grand scheme of things, they are just woes. A bigger issue is that the Denver Broncos drank the orange Kool-Aid once again this off season and talked themselves out of a top tier free agent running back. They put their faith in an oft-injured project from Arizona State who played for 2 quarters this season.
Going into 2009, Denver has a great fullback in Hillis, but no reliable tailback. Of course Denver brings Torain and Alridge back, but they need a veteran running back that can pick up tough yards and doesn't have neck injury problems to deal with (Pittman). Does Denver finally bring in a free agent or do they try and pull a running back out of the sky in the late stages of the draft? It’s anyone's guess. Does Denver take a flier on Fred Taylor or Sticky-Ickey Ricky Williams?
Yes, Denver found a franchise left tackle. Heck they even found a right tackle. Their offensive line is back among the strongest units in the league. They found a complimentary player to Brandon Marshall in Eddie Royal. Denver found some depth at a few defensive positions. They found out that their offense is one of the best in the NFL as long as they don't have to play a team with a great pass defense.
Those aren't silver linings, those are things that a team trying to build through the draft should be doing. Denny Green said it best a few years ago, but the Broncos embody the quote "They are who we thought they were". 9-7 or 8-8, the Broncos aren't a top tier team and they aren't at the bottom either. They're mediocre, but with hope. They must continue to get impact players from the draft. They're not done rebuilding. Make no mistake, that's what this is. 2008 was Denver's second year in a three year rebuilding project.
They found a lot of things out this year, but the true measure of how good the 2008 Broncos are will not be whether or not they can pull off the virtually impossible win in San Diego next Sunday, but how they take what they learned in 2008 and apply it towards a more successful 2009.
Denver has a chance on Sunday night. But win or lose, they will still be a fatally flawed team with a huge personnel deficiency on one side of the ball and an inability to physically match up with bigger, stronger teams when it comes to the ground game. Stand by your team, Broncos faithful. They'll get there, but you must summon all the patience you can muster because this group of very talented but enigmatic players will absolutely test your patience.
KEEP THE FAITH
GO BRONCOS
This is a Fan-Created Comment on MileHighReport.com. The opinion here is not necessarily shared by the editorial staff of MHR
Comments
I am too the point now that I hope Shanny uses ALL of his draft picks for defense...
I’m willing to endure another year without a franchise running back, but I am not willing to endure another year of un-Bronco like play on defense. We need a defense…and we need it right the hell now!
Nice post Super7
This is my GAP, there are many like it but this one is mine. Without my GAP I am useless, without me, they will run through my GAP. I will protect my GAP and have my brothers back on his. I will not be moved from my GAP, I am a crazed dog that patrols this area and will defeat all who entire it. I own this GAP, it is mine. I bought it with blood and sweat. I will not be pushed. I will not be moved. This Sunday I will make a stand and a statement.
by Zappa on
Dec 22, 2008 10:29 AM MST
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I agree about the D
Its just disappointing that we have a great offense and that the offense can make up for the defense on a lot of occasions, but the defense hasn’t really made up for the offense at all this year. I mean, even a below average defense has a few moments of clarity, right? I don’t even think the Broncos are below average on D. I think they’re awful. Marsahwn Lynch was hurt, Trent Edwards threwa quarter of his passes into the turf, and teh Bills WRs leave a lot to be desired, and yet, they had no trouble marching right downfield.
by super7 on
Dec 22, 2008 10:47 AM MST
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I agree
The Denver D is in the bottom 4 or 5 units in the league. Lions and Rams are the only ones that are worse. Above them there’s a cluster of 5-6 teams that are horrible – Denver belongs in this group.
Random quotes about the raiders:
They really shouldn’t play — Chris Collinsworth (12/5/08)
This is an utter disaster — Chris Collinsworth (12/5/08)
/The great Dane - formerly known as Claaaaas!
by Claus Vestergaard on
Dec 22, 2008 11:19 AM MST
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I agree on all of the above on defense.
It is true we need a franchise RB that can help up move the ball, take pressure off of Jay, and eat up the clock. We need a defense that can at least bail the offense out when they make a mistake. We need to repeat the ’06 draft……….but on defense.
"It doesn't dissipate" ~ Mike Shanahan
Cutler's 4th qtr/OT game winning drives: 9
by weazel on
Dec 23, 2008 8:01 PM MST
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... and the 08'... at once...
Random quotes about the raiders:
They really shouldn’t play — Chris Collinsworth (12/5/08)
This is an utter disaster — Chris Collinsworth (12/5/08)
/The great Dane - formerly known as Claaaaas!
by Claus Vestergaard on
Dec 24, 2008 9:54 AM MST
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Completely, utterly, 100%, totally agree!
This completely sums up my feelings…
I don’t agree about the RB-situation, though. 6 (or is it 7? I’ve stopped counting) injuries on the same position will kill any unit. I will say, though, that Derrick Ward is a free agent next year.
When it comes to the D, I’m simply lost for word..
Oh, and rec’d ofc.
Random quotes about the raiders:
They really shouldn’t play — Chris Collinsworth (12/5/08)
This is an utter disaster — Chris Collinsworth (12/5/08)
/The great Dane - formerly known as Claaaaas!
by Claus Vestergaard on
Dec 22, 2008 11:17 AM MST
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Ooooh, Derrick Ward is a GREAT fit for Denver!
I’d do that in a heartbeat. Is Brandon Jacobs a FA as well? If so the G-Men will only keep one of them for sure and it will be Jacobs.
by super7 on
Dec 22, 2008 11:36 AM MST
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I'm not good at knowing a good cut-back runner when I see one
But Ward seems to be the better fit, no?
I think I remember something about the Giants eventually having to pick only one of the two to tag. I don’t know where to find that info, though.
Random quotes about the raiders:
They really shouldn’t play — Chris Collinsworth (12/5/08)
This is an utter disaster — Chris Collinsworth (12/5/08)
/The great Dane - formerly known as Claaaaas!
by Claus Vestergaard on
Dec 22, 2008 11:39 AM MST
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I already heard that somewhere and the whole time I was watching SNF i was thinking...
… we are so, SO fn stupid if we don’t give this guy 3-4 years and a small fortune.
Jules: Tell 'em, Vincent.
Vincent: A (Eddie) Royale with cheese.
Jules: A (Eddie) Royale with cheese! You know why they call it that?
Brett: Because of the metric system?
Jules: Check out the big brain on Brett! You're a smart mother******. That's right. The metric system.
by Elway4Prez on
Dec 22, 2008 12:35 PM MST
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Small fortunes...
…are hard to find.
To bear up under loss, to fight the bitterness of defeat and the weakness of grief, to be victor over anger, to smile when tears are close, to resist evil men and base instincts, to hate evil and to love love, to go on when it would seem good to die, to seek after the glory and the dream, to look up with unquenchable faith in something evermore about to be, that is what any man can do, and so be great.
Zane Grey
by bradley on
Dec 22, 2008 12:36 PM MST
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I think we actually go some dough to work with this offseason...
… Like more than last year. I bet you we have the money to nab him. I’d also like to take a flyer on Karlos Dansby
Jules: Tell 'em, Vincent.
Vincent: A (Eddie) Royale with cheese.
Jules: A (Eddie) Royale with cheese! You know why they call it that?
Brett: Because of the metric system?
Jules: Check out the big brain on Brett! You're a smart mother******. That's right. The metric system.
by Elway4Prez on
Dec 22, 2008 12:38 PM MST
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Ward and Jacobs are FAs at the end of this season
No way they can convince both to stay. Looking back on it, Ward signed for $1.1M in the 2007-2008 off season, that would have been a steal for Denver at the time. Ah, the clarity of hindsight.
by super7 on
Dec 22, 2008 12:55 PM MST
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Agreed, as well, on all but RB
Personally, I think we’ve got everything we need in the backfield to be a major offensive player next year… once the injuries are overcome. I don’t want to waste money or picks on a RB. I trust Hillis, Torain, Pittman, and Young to shoulder the load very well.
As for the D, I want every effort focused on getting us a DT, DE, and Safety (I think we’ve got what we need at LB, already, if Larsen would be put where he belongs). Several of each to get some competition at each position to figure out who’s going to work out. And pick up some in FA, too.
by jupistar on
Dec 26, 2008 5:11 AM MST
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Good post
Only thing I disagree with is the thought that denver is strong on the perimeter. I think we are horrible everywhere. Otherwise, spot on. The game of football is about making plays and the Broncos haven’t made enough when it counted. The inability to force turnovers on defense and offensive turnovers has been frustrating this year. -15 is really the stat of the year. Second from the bottom. It is truly amazing the Broncos have eight wins with that number. Not enough defensive play makers and a lack of a running game is playing with fire.
Agree with your assessment of Dumervil. He is in the top 2 or 3 of Bronco disappointments this year. Hasnt drawn a ton of penalties and consistency has gone out the door. We commented at the game yesterday that he has been a ghost this year.
The Ralphie Report - Go Buffs!...All Colorado Buffaloes on SBNation - http://www.ralphiereport.com/
by irish1611 on
Dec 22, 2008 11:28 AM MST
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I hear you
The Broncos aren’t playing for a division title Sunday because they are a good team. They’re playing for the AFC West because nobody in the division was good this year.
by super7 on
Dec 22, 2008 11:38 AM MST
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No Doubt.
Your words sting of truth. Average. With hope.
All of these words to describe what we all have been watching for the past few years. The league is designed for that. Average. With hope.
I think the Goodmans have shown to draft well so there is… hope.
I hope for a vocal leader to rise on this team. I hope for someone to dig deep inside and deliver for the team. I hope to be a fan of the AFC West Champion Denver Broncos on monday morning.
My faith in the Orange & Blue will carry my hope through this chasm of poor play calling, abandonment of the run, and losses. I believe, but my spirit is low.
All Ready! Help!
by precisiontint on
Dec 22, 2008 11:44 AM MST
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Just throwing this out there
Name me one player on defense where’d you be like, oh hell no, we can’t cut him or do without him what were they thinking? I honestly can’t think of one guy I would be pissed if they replaced. I would have said Champ but I have a fear that he is entering the downside of his career and is going to be an injury plagued player throughout what football he has left to play. Other then that, the only other guy I would possibly say is DJ Williams and to me he is becoming more and more overrated by everyone. This defense needs a complete overhaul. I am saying some drastic measures need to be taken and taken immidiately.
by RyanBuff on
Dec 22, 2008 11:55 AM MST
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You simply cannot cut DJ.
He’s our version of Shaun Rogers. A pro-bowl caliber player sorrounded by ineptitude. Besides i believe he just renewed his deal this off-season.
I would hate to see Champ leave, but he’s probably carrying a massive cap-hit so i guess it’s a distinct possibility.
Random quotes about the raiders:
They really shouldn’t play — Chris Collinsworth (12/5/08)
This is an utter disaster — Chris Collinsworth (12/5/08)
/The great Dane - formerly known as Claaaaas!
by Claus Vestergaard on
Dec 22, 2008 11:59 AM MST
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I actually agree 100%
I said before the season that the only player I’d pay his 2008 salary to before the season was DJ, but I can say now that I’m not sure about that.
I’d like to see an overhaul and do some negotiating with current players and other teams and see what we can get for who BUT I have to think that Denver tries for a bit of continuity in 2009.
I hate to see us lose a leader like Champ but to keep playing and paying for a guy of his caliber when we can’t rush the passer enough to make Champ matter, then its not worth it. Champ Bailey on a team w/ a decent (not even great) pass rush is a first ballot hall of famer. Champ Bailey on this Broncos team is a waste of his talent and our money.
by super7 on
Dec 22, 2008 12:10 PM MST
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YES INDEED
I am also of the opinion that we don’t have but one starter on that defence, it’s awful. Dumervil was always a situational rusher (so is Moss at best) and Thomas will only be an average back-up. Robertson has been invisible and Ekuban is to slow and a little old. Webster has to go and wow is Niko so bad he couldn’t even get in there when the confused Webster went down. As for DJ, we just resigned him so we might as well keep him and see if better players around him makes a difference – he seems to be losing confidence. Winborn is a back-up and not a very good one at that. And Boss Bailey was the worst free agent signing this side of Travis Henry – Why don’t they get it??? The secondary is where we are really in trouble.. If there’s a team out there (and I know there are some fans on this post who are still disillusioned) that still thinks Dre Bly is an NFL corner maybe we can get a fifth rounder for him. Either way are you guys aware how much we’re paying that idiot(?) He has to go immediately following the close of the season. I agree with Ryan, Champ is on the downside of a seriously over-rated career and is also the highest paid player – he re-structures for significantly less money or I trade him too. That Bell guy is terrible and if I have to watch one more slip screen go for 40 yards I don’t know what I’m going to do. I like Barrett – he’s got an upside because of his size. So by my calculation we have Dj, two situational pass rushers, and a raw safety we can develop… my bigger concern is the 4 corners we drafted over the past four drafts = they were all terribly under-sized and had no return skills between the four of them. (Including Jack Williams who might be the worst of the four) My point being I have no faith we know how to draft secondary and where does that leave us.. over paying for corners in free agency. Look at the below average quarterbacks who have just torched us, even with Chump Bailey. My hope is that the jig is up – It’s time for Bowlen to get a little more involved this off season, if that means opening up the wallet for real talent, or getting some outside opinions on Shanny’s personnel moves over the last three seasons, whatever.. Without a marked improvement next year it’s time for a bigger change than we might be willing to admit.
by quarterhorse on
Dec 23, 2008 12:03 PM MST
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With no saftey help
I don’t care if we have Nmandi from the Raiders our secondary will look bad. If we can get a pass rush and take the second saftey out of the box our entire defense improves.
Right now our biggest needs is a dominating DT. With this our LBs would be free to use thier speed and make plays. We’d finally play with two deep safties again letting Champ and Bly be thier opportunistic selves and with a top notch saftey to compliment Barret our D could actually be quite good.
My other point is this, all we need is a good or average D to make us a very solid playoff contender. With some small upgrades the following seasons and letting our young guys get experience we have a very solid Super Bowl caliber team.
Right now we just have to find a way to get the real deal DT that can change the face of this D and everything else will fall into place.
by BroncoJoe87 on
Dec 23, 2008 3:17 PM MST
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+1
This is my GAP, there are many like it but this one is mine. Without my GAP I am useless, without me, they will run through my GAP. I will protect my GAP and have my brothers back on his. I will not be moved from my GAP, I am a crazed dog that patrols this area and will defeat all who entire it. I own this GAP, it is mine. I bought it with blood and sweat. I will not be pushed. I will not be moved. This Sunday I will make a stand and a statement.
by Zappa on
Dec 23, 2008 3:19 PM MST
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I agree with you about the DT but...
what about a DE. Defensive ends are usually the big pass rushers. DT are the run-stoppers. We need a fast and agile DE to go along with a DT. Then our D will be awesome.
by broncoholic on
Dec 23, 2008 3:20 PM MST
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We need both, no doubt
but stopping the run (mostly a DT function) would go a looooong ways towards helping even our current DEs.
Concision in style, precision in thought, decision in life.
by styg50 on
Dec 23, 2008 3:58 PM MST
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Awesome post Super, Rec'd.
We have nine picks this year, correct? I would like to see us acquire an additional second round pick via trade (for one of our veterans, two of the second day picks, whatever) and select three players on day one— a LB, SAF, and RB. Then either by trade or FA, pick up a beast to put in our front four. Round it all out with another excellent second day in the draft with all picks on the defensive side of the ball.
"Choose the sword, and you will join me. Choose the ball and you join your mother, in death. You don’t understand my words, but you must choose. So… come boy, choose life or death."
by ButteBronco on
Dec 22, 2008 12:10 PM MST
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Sounds good to me...
… but don’t trade Champ! I say let’s build the defense around him TO make him effective. He’s an amazing, one-in-the-world-talent (two if you count that nameless fellow in Oakland.) Let’s get a good defensive line next to him and then he’ll show how potenent he can really be.
I know you what you guys are thinking, it’s not as easy as it sounds. But we get one good/great guy and our former starters suddenly look like great backups giving us a solid rotation. Albert Haynesworth anyone….?
Jules: Tell 'em, Vincent.
Vincent: A (Eddie) Royale with cheese.
Jules: A (Eddie) Royale with cheese! You know why they call it that?
Brett: Because of the metric system?
Jules: Check out the big brain on Brett! You're a smart mother******. That's right. The metric system.
by Elway4Prez on
Dec 22, 2008 12:45 PM MST
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Yeah, I don't like the idea of trading Champ either...
You’re exactly right on the DL. Our rotation would be great if we added one guy with Peppers or Haynesworth ability. Although Haynesworth seems a little risky to me character-wise considering how much cash we’ll have to surrender. Not just the head stomping deal either, I believe he had troubles in Knoxville as well.
Maybe we’re okay at safety (as HT says, we don’t know because we don’t use them right) and we can take a DT with one of the first three picks instead of a SAF. However, even if we draft a front four guy, I hope we still take a run at an elite guy like Peppers as rooks on the DL take time to develop.
"Choose the sword, and you will join me. Choose the ball and you join your mother, in death. You don’t understand my words, but you must choose. So… come boy, choose life or death."
by ButteBronco on
Dec 22, 2008 1:52 PM MST
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I agree...
If we get rid of one of our best players on defense the we will have even more re-building to do. We’ll just be wasting draft picks trying to replace him. We need to build up our line, which will put more pressure on the opposing QB, which will cause him to make a bad throw, which will lead to a pick. That is why we don’t have as many turnovers this year.
by broncoholic on
Dec 22, 2008 12:48 PM MST
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Great post
We need lots of help on defense, but please save one pick for a RUNNING BACK!
"Be not like dumb-driven cattle...."
by jcps on
Dec 22, 2008 1:41 PM MST
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Why?
we’ve got many talented backs, and we can take our pick of the best 4 and run with it. No way do we have the same kind of luck again next season with injuries.
by BroncoJoe87 on
Dec 23, 2008 3:20 PM MST
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I agree
Hillis’s injury was a fluke thing and he should be back fine next year. Alridge’s injury was probably not something that really required IR, but was more to protect him from having to go through waivers to get him on the practice squad.
Torain is the only injury that worries me. Usually, an ACL takes a full season to recover and rehab. Since his injury was in Week 9, I’m not sure when he’ll really be back to full speed. In the meantime, we’ll have the opportunity this weekend to see if Boyd is really the beast that Boydy2669 says he is as well as seeing whether Pinnock will be our full-time FB.
I can’t see us going through the RBs next year like we’ve been going through them this year.
"It's all over Fat Man" - Tom Jackson to John Madden 1977 AFC Championship Game
"Superman wears Peyton Hillis pajamas" - FlaBronco
by DesertBroncoFan on
Dec 23, 2008 3:26 PM MST
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Trinidad mentioned this elsewhere
this simply is too crazy to happen again. The question is, will it happen AGAIN next year, or will THIS TIME just not have stopped yet???
gah!
Concision in style, precision in thought, decision in life.
by styg50 on
Dec 23, 2008 4:00 PM MST
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I hope these injuries were flukes...
I am certainly shocked at just how many RB’s are on IR, but I have not been surprised at all to find them a brittle group. There was some talk on MHR before the season about the “great depth” of the RB corps and the high talent level…but honestly – there was nobody on the roster who had proven to be either durable or a star. We came into this season with a few undersized speed backs – Young, Alridge and Hall, an older back in Pittman and an injury-prone Torain. Young’s talk of 2,000 yards was laughable, and Pittman has never been an every-down back.
There is zero chance we enter 2009 with the same group of running backs. I will be absolutely stunned if we don’t bring in at least 2 new players via FA and the draft who are virtually guaranteed roster spots. Everyone on the current roster is either brittle, undersized and/or has fumblitis…with the possible exception of Hillis.
This year’s RB attrition wasn’t all about bad luck on the Broncos’ part. It was a combination of poor planning, bad luck and even worse stretching exercises (apparently).
by nycbroncosfan on
Dec 24, 2008 9:44 AM MST
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Well, I don't know...
Are we forgetting about Hillis? He was a BEAST when he was on and he hurt on an entirely freak play where he jumped up and over the d-back to snag an under-thrown pass. I don’t think we need any help in the backfield. And what about putting Woodyard on the strong-side, Larsen in the middle (where he was playing better than anyone this season and was there the only time we really bottled up the run against Atlanta) and leaving DJ on the weak-side? We need a killer safety to compliment Barrett and we need more DTs. And finally, the the coaching staff should learn to make adjustments for the second half, something that’s been sorely lacking our last two games.
If people aren't supposed to eat animals, why are they made out of meat??
by BigDave on
Dec 22, 2008 1:47 PM MST
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I agree
Hillis will be great next year – his injury is not that bad, not like he blew a knee. If he stays healthy, he’s all we need at RB next year. And Barrett is showing a lot. Don’t know where Larsen will end up, but he’s a football player.
To bear up under loss, to fight the bitterness of defeat and the weakness of grief, to be victor over anger, to smile when tears are close, to resist evil men and base instincts, to hate evil and to love love, to go on when it would seem good to die, to seek after the glory and the dream, to look up with unquenchable faith in something evermore about to be, that is what any man can do, and so be great.
Zane Grey
by bradley on
Dec 22, 2008 2:05 PM MST
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Thank you, Dave, on Hillis . . .
I really don’t understand how many people are automatically counting Hillis out at RB. How do you count anybody out who had a 5.0 YPC? He showed he can not only run over people, but he started even to show some moves at RB, as he became more orientated (or re-orientated since he has played it before) to the position, and he showed some decent football speed. That is in addition to his receiving and his ability to pick up blitzers. How many teams have a RB in whose way linebackers are afraid to wander? Morever, in one of his pressers, Shanny said that Hillis “has proven he can play tailback.”
Regarding Woodyard, I would like to see him put at strong safety and left there. Also in a presser, Shanny said that Woodyard is faster than most strong safeties. As a freshman, Woodyard was honored for his superlative play there. I really like the idea of Woodyard and Barrett at safety. Speed galore. Both hit like trucks. All they need is to become orientated to their respective positions, IMO, and they will make a dramatic difference.
I don’t believe the defense needs a “complete overhaul.” Thomas is fine at DT. Ekuban and Engelberger to well against the run. D.J. is a good Will, and they do not need a superstar at Sam — it isn’t that kind of position — and Boss and Winborn have that covered, IMO. Bly would be okay at corner with a decent pass rush, and Champ has a lot left in the tank to be one of the best CBs, if not still the best CB, in the league.
The Broncos ought to go for the best MLB available in the draft, IMO. At DT, they should throw the gloves off in getting Haynesworth, who is a FA this next year and cannot be franchised, and/or an equivalent. While I advocate building through the draft, DT takes a couple years to orientate (ala Thomas) and the Broncos need help there now. It might not hurt to invest a second-day selection or two at DT, but remember we have Powell coming back, and he had a minus YPC against RBs in college.
The fact that the Broncos are still in the hunt for a playoff position shows they are not all that far away. If the Broncos invest wisely in the draft and FA and use a little better job-fit with their personnel, they may be next year’s Carolina.
Oh, and get rid of Bob Slowik . . .
Never argue with a fool, lest you take on his appearance. - my daddy
by AZDynamics on
Dec 22, 2008 2:28 PM MST
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Heres what I want for defense...
Larsen at MLB or DJ at MLB
Draft Cushing at Strong Side.
WW at weak side backer or Strong safety.
Patrick Ching at safety (or Taylor Mays…we have a tonne of picks and might be able to wrangel something).
Haynesworth in FA and we are set.
Hillis, Torain and Alridge at RB. My only chnage might be if Cory Boyd shows something…..then Hillis becomes a Pro Bowl H Back like Dallas Clark.
The rest of the league better look out.
The only curve ball to look at is this:
DONT BE SURPRISED IF DEVNER GOES CB IN 1ST OR 2ND ROUND OR TAKES A RUN AT NMANDI….I just have a feeling!!!
Those that cant coach, compete!
Failing to plan is planning to fail.
by boydy2669 on
Dec 22, 2008 6:52 PM MST
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Cushing's injury history?
I found this on the front page scouting reports about Cushing:
Cushing plays with a lot of heart, but has an extensive injury history. Teams will have to thoroughly contemplate Cushing’s durability before using an early draft pick on him.
I haven’t seen him play, but according to the New Era Scouting report on him, it sounds like he may be an injury risk. Do we really want to draft someone that high (they’re putting him at top 15) that will bring more durability issues to this team?
I could be wrong, maybe he plays well enough when he’s on the field to overcome the time lost on the field, but replacing Boss with another injury prone SAM, doesn’t seem to make a lot of sense to me.
"It's all over Fat Man" - Tom Jackson to John Madden 1977 AFC Championship Game
"Superman wears Peyton Hillis pajamas" - FlaBronco
by DesertBroncoFan on
Dec 23, 2008 11:32 AM MST
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Three words said it best
KEEP THE FAITH
It will be rewarded
"I am not one of those who think that coming in second or third is winning." -- Robert F. Kennedy
by TedBartlett905 on
Dec 22, 2008 2:12 PM MST
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My offseason wish list
Offense:
Needs: RB
FA: Derrick Ward, Ricky Williams
Draft: Javon Ringer MSU
Defense:
Needs: Everything LOL
FA: Albert Haynseworth, Bob Sanders, Nnamdi Asomugha
Draft: Taylor Mays, Laurinitis, And some stud DTS, And some corner backs
All of these wont’ happend let alone one, but it would be awesome
Trades: Trade Dre Bly for a draft pick,
Guys who stay: DJ WIlliams, Champ Bailey, Dumervil, Thomas, Woodyard
Everyone else on D can go LOL
Mile High Salute
by TommyTSlice on
Dec 22, 2008 2:24 PM MST
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Oh and get rid of Scott O'Brien as special teams coach and hire Me
Mile High Salute
by TommyTSlice on
Dec 22, 2008 2:25 PM MST
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NO! HIRE ME! We could thumb wrestle for the position.
This is my GAP, there are many like it but this one is mine. Without my GAP I am useless, without me, they will run through my GAP. I will protect my GAP and have my brothers back on his. I will not be moved from my GAP, I am a crazed dog that patrols this area and will defeat all who entire it. I own this GAP, it is mine. I bought it with blood and sweat. I will not be pushed. I will not be moved. This Sunday I will make a stand and a statement.
by Zappa on
Dec 22, 2008 2:27 PM MST
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We also have Boss Bailey whos injury prone but he is an off the bench guy now
Mile High Salute
by TommyTSlice on
Dec 22, 2008 2:27 PM MST
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I would change one thing:
TRADES: Champ Bailey for draft pick and keep Dre Bly.
This is my GAP, there are many like it but this one is mine. Without my GAP I am useless, without me, they will run through my GAP. I will protect my GAP and have my brothers back on his. I will not be moved from my GAP, I am a crazed dog that patrols this area and will defeat all who entire it. I own this GAP, it is mine. I bought it with blood and sweat. I will not be pushed. I will not be moved. This Sunday I will make a stand and a statement.
by Zappa on
Dec 22, 2008 2:28 PM MST
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why champ over bly?
Mile High Salute
by TommyTSlice on
Dec 22, 2008 2:28 PM MST
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Because Champ costs twice as much as we would need the cap space to sign some of those big name FA you mentioned. :)
This is my GAP, there are many like it but this one is mine. Without my GAP I am useless, without me, they will run through my GAP. I will protect my GAP and have my brothers back on his. I will not be moved from my GAP, I am a crazed dog that patrols this area and will defeat all who entire it. I own this GAP, it is mine. I bought it with blood and sweat. I will not be pushed. I will not be moved. This Sunday I will make a stand and a statement.
by Zappa on
Dec 22, 2008 2:49 PM MST
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Is he really that much more expensive?
Random quotes about the raiders:
They really shouldn’t play — Chris Collinsworth (12/5/08)
This is an utter disaster — Chris Collinsworth (12/5/08)
/The great Dane - formerly known as Claaaaas!
by Claus Vestergaard on
Dec 22, 2008 9:22 PM MST
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NO
Please don’t trade Champ. At least not unless he totally agrees to it. He doesn’t deserve being treated like that.
To bear up under loss, to fight the bitterness of defeat and the weakness of grief, to be victor over anger, to smile when tears are close, to resist evil men and base instincts, to hate evil and to love love, to go on when it would seem good to die, to seek after the glory and the dream, to look up with unquenchable faith in something evermore about to be, that is what any man can do, and so be great.
Zane Grey
by bradley on
Dec 22, 2008 2:29 PM MST
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NFL=Not for Long
He missed 8 games while we were fighting for our playoff lives. I love his skill, but he costs too much for a defense that is ranked two spots lower WITH him playing than without him playing. Just my opinion though. lol
This is my GAP, there are many like it but this one is mine. Without my GAP I am useless, without me, they will run through my GAP. I will protect my GAP and have my brothers back on his. I will not be moved from my GAP, I am a crazed dog that patrols this area and will defeat all who entire it. I own this GAP, it is mine. I bought it with blood and sweat. I will not be pushed. I will not be moved. This Sunday I will make a stand and a statement.
by Zappa on
Dec 22, 2008 2:50 PM MST
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Besides, Champ will easily excel in a scheme that doesn't hurt his ability to make plays.
That is what he has been reduced to in Denver.
This is my GAP, there are many like it but this one is mine. Without my GAP I am useless, without me, they will run through my GAP. I will protect my GAP and have my brothers back on his. I will not be moved from my GAP, I am a crazed dog that patrols this area and will defeat all who entire it. I own this GAP, it is mine. I bought it with blood and sweat. I will not be pushed. I will not be moved. This Sunday I will make a stand and a statement.
by Zappa on
Dec 22, 2008 2:51 PM MST
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Champ's a tough call
It depends what his value is on the market versus trying to backfill his position.
You can’t replace his veteran leadership or talent. However, he is getting older and is likely to get less value on the market every year from last year here on out.
It also depends what our plan is going forward. I mean, if we go out and sign Haynesworth and Mike Brown, draft Laurinaitis and a few others, you have to keep Champ. On the flip side, if you go young, you might see Champ and DJ get moved in order to maximize the young talent on the team, especially now that we know that with Winborn, Woodyard, Doom, Bell, Thomas, Jack Williams, and Larsen, the Denver defense will only get better with more reps.
by super7 on
Dec 22, 2008 3:22 PM MST
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are you kidding(?)
I’ve seen some good post from you but tell me why you think Bly can play? You must be watching a different game than I am.. trade them both and start with Nmamdi in FA..
by quarterhorse on
Dec 23, 2008 12:10 PM MST
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I think Bly is an above average corner and a hell of a lot cheaper than Champ Bailey.
I am talking strictly value. We’d get a hell of a lot more for Champ Bailey than for Dre Bly, PLUS we’d get a major clearance in the cap space for some FA at key positions. I am wondering, Did you know that our record with Champ Bailey is 4-4 and without him we are 4-3? What difference or impact has he really made? btw, 3 of those 4 victories came in the first three games. We are 1-4 with him in the game after Week 3. All I am saying is that maybe it is time to use that cap room for a position that will make a bigger impact on THIS defense. Not the 2005 defense, not last years defense. This years and next years defense. ;-) Dre Bly can easily fill a role on this years and next years’ defense for the price we are paying him. Josh Bell has filled in rather nicely for Champ Bailey, the drop off wasn’t significant anyways. Why not trade Bailey for some high draft picks and land a big FA like Albert Haynesworth or somethin’?
I love Champ, but I just don’t think Champ fits well with the way were are going on defense…we need the money. Dre Bly is a starter in the NFL…he is no Champ Bailey, but he is good enough for me for the price we pay him. Does that answer your question? :)
This is my GAP, there are many like it but this one is mine. Without my GAP I am useless, without me, they will run through my GAP. I will protect my GAP and have my brothers back on his. I will not be moved from my GAP, I am a crazed dog that patrols this area and will defeat all who entire it. I own this GAP, it is mine. I bought it with blood and sweat. I will not be pushed. I will not be moved. This Sunday I will make a stand and a statement.
by Zappa on
Dec 23, 2008 12:24 PM MST
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what do you think bailey is worth?
and its not like the broncos are out of cap space. i believe we have quite the space to spend this offseason. i dont like bly. that winning td in the bills game was evidence of his play. i say keep bailey and get rid of bly
by purplesocks on
Dec 25, 2008 6:47 PM MST
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T Slice....
If we got rid of Barrett I will be PISSED. This kid is going to be a dominator!
Those that cant coach, compete!
Failing to plan is planning to fail.
by boydy2669 on
Dec 22, 2008 6:54 PM MST
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Barrett can stay, but he did whiff on a tackle yesterday that went for a touchdown, but he is still young with upside
Mile High Salute
by TommyTSlice on
Dec 22, 2008 7:38 PM MST
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I think that was Winborn wasn't it????
Those that cant coach, compete!
Failing to plan is planning to fail.
by boydy2669 on
Dec 22, 2008 7:52 PM MST
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Everyone keeps singing Doom's Praises
What has he done this year? His intense QB rush ability has been almost utterly stifled and his lack of size hurts in the run defense. I say, as much as I like Doom, trade him to a team that can afford an awesome situational player and give us a draft pick so we can get some base talent.
And the idea of trading Champ seems dumb to me. You think trading your best defensive player for draft picks so you can rebuild works? I suggest you go talk to the chefs about how well that worked out for them when they did that with Allen.
Check out the website listed below...
by EastCoastBronco on
Dec 22, 2008 3:44 PM MST
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sorry for the continued Italics.
Check out the website listed below...
by EastCoastBronco on
Dec 22, 2008 3:44 PM MST
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True that....
other than he leads this team in sacks.
This is my GAP, there are many like it but this one is mine. Without my GAP I am useless, without me, they will run through my GAP. I will protect my GAP and have my brothers back on his. I will not be moved from my GAP, I am a crazed dog that patrols this area and will defeat all who entire it. I own this GAP, it is mine. I bought it with blood and sweat. I will not be pushed. I will not be moved. This Sunday I will make a stand and a statement.
by Zappa on
Dec 22, 2008 4:11 PM MST
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which isnt saying much either...
This is my GAP, there are many like it but this one is mine. Without my GAP I am useless, without me, they will run through my GAP. I will protect my GAP and have my brothers back on his. I will not be moved from my GAP, I am a crazed dog that patrols this area and will defeat all who entire it. I own this GAP, it is mine. I bought it with blood and sweat. I will not be pushed. I will not be moved. This Sunday I will make a stand and a statement.
by Zappa on
Dec 22, 2008 4:11 PM MST
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Disagree whole heartedly
Chump Bailey is a good tackler but hasn’t been a good cover corner for two years, and don’t give me the ‘if we had a pass rush’ excuse.. I’ve seen Bailey beaten so many times by really average recievers.. he thinks he’s fast enough to stare down the QB with his back to the sideline but when was the last time that worked out for him, how many picks in the last two seasons?? How many deflected passes?? It’s only that Bly is so pathetic that teams don’t go after him more. No, his days as an elite corner are long gone.
by quarterhorse on
Dec 23, 2008 12:16 PM MST
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Ok, so you dislike "Chump" Bailey and Dre Bly....
who do you suggest we replace both of those guys with? Karl Paymah? We can get rid of one, but not both. Champ costs over twice as much and we could get more for him than Dre Bly…so let’s trade Champ and keep Bly.
This is my GAP, there are many like it but this one is mine. Without my GAP I am useless, without me, they will run through my GAP. I will protect my GAP and have my brothers back on his. I will not be moved from my GAP, I am a crazed dog that patrols this area and will defeat all who entire it. I own this GAP, it is mine. I bought it with blood and sweat. I will not be pushed. I will not be moved. This Sunday I will make a stand and a statement.
by Zappa on
Dec 23, 2008 12:26 PM MST
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I'm open to new things
I agree with you, Champ has good trade value, but Bly is the worst tackler on the team (yes I know he tackled the surprisingly good Thigpen on the one yard line) Watch how many times the Chargers run a screen pass to Bly’s side next week, he’s not very strong or strong willed. Yes Paymah is also a liability.. So we go after Asomugah.. draft a new corner on the advice of someone other than Shanahan, then pick up another second tier corner in free agency.. the defence is two years away so if it takes both years I’m up for it.. We would have needed to get younger at that position anyway and we won’t win it all before then. What say you?
by quarterhorse on
Dec 23, 2008 12:34 PM MST
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I don't know, Bly has improved immensely through this season.
I think he has a bad rep with his toughness and I see guy who is playing his ass off this year to shed those haters. I’ve been very impressed with Bly since Champ went down…I was ready to dump Bly at the beginning of the year, but I am liking what I am seeing from him. Maybe Champ has given him pointers and helped him become a better tackler…because he is way better than when he first arrived. Just saying…. :)
This is my GAP, there are many like it but this one is mine. Without my GAP I am useless, without me, they will run through my GAP. I will protect my GAP and have my brothers back on his. I will not be moved from my GAP, I am a crazed dog that patrols this area and will defeat all who entire it. I own this GAP, it is mine. I bought it with blood and sweat. I will not be pushed. I will not be moved. This Sunday I will make a stand and a statement.
by Zappa on
Dec 23, 2008 1:34 PM MST
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But,
if Champ can improve even Bly’s horrid play, don’t you want him doing the same with our young CBs that will be inheriting the position from him? Especially since the young guys admit to it being a great asset to have Champ there to ask questions of.
I’d hate to see what would happen if the young CBs had to go to Dre for advice.
"It's all over Fat Man" - Tom Jackson to John Madden 1977 AFC Championship Game
"Superman wears Peyton Hillis pajamas" - FlaBronco
by DesertBroncoFan on
Dec 23, 2008 1:57 PM MST
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At 10+ million a year? uhhh, no. lol ;-)
I get your point though….but how to we build a defense when we got to work around Champ’s massive salary? It’s a self defeating cycle imo…
This is my GAP, there are many like it but this one is mine. Without my GAP I am useless, without me, they will run through my GAP. I will protect my GAP and have my brothers back on his. I will not be moved from my GAP, I am a crazed dog that patrols this area and will defeat all who entire it. I own this GAP, it is mine. I bought it with blood and sweat. I will not be pushed. I will not be moved. This Sunday I will make a stand and a statement.
by Zappa on
Dec 23, 2008 2:25 PM MST
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Are you suggesting that we get rid of Champ and his $10M/year
to pickup Haynesworth or Peppers at a similar cost?
We know that Champ is a player (even when not in a contract year) and before he was hurt, he only was thrown at minimally. If we were to get a competent CB on the other side who can cover AND tackle such as Bell, JMFW, someone else that we’re already paying or even Nnamdi (though it’s doubtful that would ever happen) we could keep the opposing passing game in check until the our young (and possibly new draftee) defensive lineman get a chance to grow and learn their jobs.
"It's all over Fat Man" - Tom Jackson to John Madden 1977 AFC Championship Game
"Superman wears Peyton Hillis pajamas" - FlaBronco
by DesertBroncoFan on
Dec 23, 2008 3:21 PM MST
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The Broncos shouldn't take a DE or DT from the free agent market.
The Broncos want young players that will develop into great superstars. If we take a FA DE or DT, then we won’t have them that long. Denver needs youth and talent. I’m not saying Haynesworth or Peppers don’t have talent but they aren’t young. We want a team that is good for multiple years and not just one year. We need to just keep drafting players.
by broncoholic on
Dec 23, 2008 3:24 PM MST
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I'm not big on getting a FA DE or DT
because it’s always hard to figure out what they are going to do once they get their big contract. It’s amazing how much better some players get when it’s their contract season.
Anyway, the only reason I brought the FA D-Lineman signing up was trying to figure out what Zappa was going to do with the $10M/year we are currently paying Champ and why he is so anxious to get rid of him. I just don’t see the logic behind getting rid of our best defensive player.
Sure, he was out longer this year than we all expected, but I think some of that was due to the fact that he had never had an injury like this before. He had only missed 3 games in his career to this point and probably didn’t really have anything to gone one as to how long it would take him to recover. His previous injury was shoulder related and he was able to play with a splint (if I remember correctly), but it didn’t have any affect on how he ran (which is where he makes his money, IMHO). With the torn groin, he lost his ability to run laterally and make his cuts, even though he still had the straight forward speed. This is something he’s never had to deal with before, so he didn’t think it would be too long of a recovery.
"It's all over Fat Man" - Tom Jackson to John Madden 1977 AFC Championship Game
"Superman wears Peyton Hillis pajamas" - FlaBronco
by DesertBroncoFan on
Dec 23, 2008 3:34 PM MST
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Paymah
He’s made some very athletic plays this season. He’s only in his 4th year, and hasn’t had the chance to play much. Asomugha, in compariosn, is in his 6th year, and was invisible until 06 at the earliest. I hope we keep Paymah around, and let him develop a bit more.
To bear up under loss, to fight the bitterness of defeat and the weakness of grief, to be victor over anger, to smile when tears are close, to resist evil men and base instincts, to hate evil and to love love, to go on when it would seem good to die, to seek after the glory and the dream, to look up with unquenchable faith in something evermore about to be, that is what any man can do, and so be great.
Zane Grey
by bradley on
Dec 23, 2008 12:48 PM MST
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I agree...just not a starter please. No starting yet. or in 2009.
This is my GAP, there are many like it but this one is mine. Without my GAP I am useless, without me, they will run through my GAP. I will protect my GAP and have my brothers back on his. I will not be moved from my GAP, I am a crazed dog that patrols this area and will defeat all who entire it. I own this GAP, it is mine. I bought it with blood and sweat. I will not be pushed. I will not be moved. This Sunday I will make a stand and a statement.
by Zappa on
Dec 23, 2008 1:34 PM MST
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Jered Allen
was just entering his prime, while Champ is leaving his behind. Allen gave the Chiefs a 1st and two 3rd’s, Champ’s value is not be that great, I would rather see Denver rework his contract than trade him.
by DBinKC on
Dec 26, 2008 12:55 PM MST
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Trade Champ and Draft?
While the drafts of the last three years are a cut above, check out what happened the last time we tried to find a premier CB, the 2005 draft:
Round:
2 – Darrent Williams
3 – Karl Paymah
3 – Dominique Foxworth
Perhaps Darrent Williams had the potential to be the guy, but he wasn’t there yet.
Paymah is a bust, in my opinion, and Foxy is long gone. Then there is Jack Williams this year, a real non-factor to date.
These are the odds to replace Champ via the draft?
I’d rather have Champ playing in a system that really takes advantage of his Hall of Fame skills.
by nativesun on
Dec 22, 2008 3:51 PM MST
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Agree..
but with reservations. I love Champ and Denver has a bad history with drafting CB’s not named Louis Wright but the money Denver has wrapped into Champ and Bly is too much.
Champ in 2009 is scheduled for $6.5M in 2010 he’s scheduled for $9.5M and is a FA in 2011.
Bly, from 2009-2010 makes $3.25M, 2011: $4 million, 2012: Free Agent. Cap charge: $4.55 million (2008).
So for 2009, we pay the starting CBs $9.75M. Haynesworth made $7.25M this year, I’d guess next year will be $8.5 or so. So the question is, do you go young w/ CBs and get a guy like Hayneworth or stick w/ the guys you have and tweak the D-Line?
It’s not nearly that black and white, just starting a conversation…
by super7 on
Dec 22, 2008 4:35 PM MST
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Agreed that it's too much money, but 2005 was a good draft
If you can get rid of Dre Bly, great. They have too much money locked up at CB, and that keeps them from signing someone like Peppers or a pass rusher that would allow Champ and Drew to thrive. I’d have to think that the market for Bly is next to nil. Even if you got a low draft pick for him, fine — they need the $$ for other positions.
But look, you’re going overboard to call the 2005 draft a disaster. Darrent Williams was the 6th cornerback taken. He was a valuable return man and his D, while a work in progress, wasn’t bad to my eyes (and don’t forget that whoever plays across from Champ gets picked on and looks worse than he is). Since he was drafted, there have been about 30 first- and second-round picks at CB. Not that many are currently straters. Williams was a good draft pick.
I mean, everyone wants a good CB, and the pool of talent thins quickly. Paymah was the twelfth CB taken, Foxworth was the sixteenth. I don’t think you expect Pro Bowl players in those draft spots, especially in a positin whose value has risen as the league has gone pass wacky. A good nickel back and a serviceable nickel/dime back? That sounds about right to me.
And one more thing, before you complain about that draft, look at the 2004 draft: D.J. Williams and 8 guys you can’t even remember!
by Chibronx on
Dec 22, 2008 4:57 PM MST
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shanahan loves nnamdi
Mile High Salute
by TommyTSlice on
Dec 22, 2008 7:39 PM MST
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He will be more expensive than Champ
That’s a guarantee!
Random quotes about the raiders:
They really shouldn’t play — Chris Collinsworth (12/5/08)
This is an utter disaster — Chris Collinsworth (12/5/08)
/The great Dane - formerly known as Claaaaas!
by Claus Vestergaard on
Dec 22, 2008 9:24 PM MST
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i am willing to bet Oakland tags him again
somethings wrong, Trying to conquer these fears i thought were gone. And it's been so long, I'm dying to live in a world i don't belong
by broncfanstuckinsd on
Dec 23, 2008 11:42 AM MST
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Shanny just needs to get back to Bronco football
Draft a running back, pair him with Hillis and make our offense the best unit in the NFL.
by Steve O' on
Dec 22, 2008 4:26 PM MST
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I think Broncos are pretty close
to having an elite team. The hardest positions to fill are QB, OT, CB, and we have stars at 4 out of 5 of these. The problem this year were some big holes. Losing Al Wilson was bigger than most people realize. I think a leader at MLB (Laurinaitis), and Asomugah (if we could get him) would have us two years out from contending for the big silver trophy. I’d keep Bly, and if needed, have Champ play safety (like Ronnie Lot did in his later years). Haynesworth sounds pretty risky to me – a lot of downside there after he gets paid.
By the way, pro football reference.com did an analysis of the first three years of all the first round QBs since 1970, to show how they can project a career from that, and rating them as “Star, Starter, Uneven, Unclear, Bad and Ugly” (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/blog/?p=999). Outside of Marino and Peyton Manning, who are off the charts, Cutler ranks second (actually, is expected to when he completes this year). Elway was “Uneven”.
They also say, “Elway, Bradshaw, Testaverde, George, Collins and Bledsoe were all famous for their arm strength, and that might help to explain their career curves; they were reckless in their early days [all rated "uneven” in their first 3 years] but were able to wisely use their cannon arms as they matured."
Not sure if that applies to Cutler. ArmchairGM says Elway had “notably one of the strongest arms ever” (http://armchairgm.wikia.com/The_100_Greatest_Quarter) and it took him a long time to develop “touch” on his throws. Jay seems to throw a beautiful ball already.
"Remember, it's only a game."
by robswenson on
Dec 22, 2008 7:12 PM MST
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Welcome aboard Rob!
and I agree completely, Cutler definitley has ‘touch’ in his arsenal. What impresses me most about him, though, are those precise throws in traffic. It takes me two or three angles on his passes before I get confidence that he could see the opening there and wasn’t just getting lucky…
Concision in style, precision in thought, decision in life.
by styg50 on
Dec 22, 2008 9:02 PM MST
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Welcome Rob and thanks for the links
Nice to see that John Brodie ranked 22nd overall. He threw beautiful spirals.
The future looks so bright that we're going to need blue and orange sunglasses!
by Arctic Bronco on
Dec 23, 2008 12:15 AM MST
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They're close -- stop the hand-wringing!
I’d add DE to the list of hardest-to-fill positions, but I fully agree with you. In the past few years, they’ve lost Al Wilson, Trevor Pryce and Rod Smith — three rocks of the franchise who were among the best in the leage at their positions for a long time. What’s good about this team compared to the Plummer teams is that they have terrific depth — lots of young kids who are playing well. What’s needed is a pass rusher and two impact players on the defensive side of the ball.
The way I see it, they have 19 picks and two drafts to straighten this out. The shotgun approach of the ‘08 draft — in which they selected a lot of contributors — needs to be exchanged for a more selected approach in which they roll up the extra picks and get a few top performers in the early rounds. Let’s say they grab a DT and FS this year, a DE and MLB next. They have the picks, and they seem to have found their way on draft day.
We can quibble about who to draft when — I’d say grab a DT and FS this year, since those positions take longer to devlop; good LBs can play right away — but the bottom line is right. This team is close.
by Chibronx on
Dec 22, 2008 7:35 PM MST
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god i love patrick willis :(
Mile High Salute
by TommyTSlice on
Dec 22, 2008 7:42 PM MST
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Our problem isn't at CB.
Champ needs to stay. He could be the leader of this team. He just needs to step up. Maybe if Denver could get pressure on the QB, he would be making more plays. Denver needs to concentrate on the d-line and linebackers.
by broncoholic on
Dec 22, 2008 7:48 PM MST
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Agreed . . .
This would apply, IMO, even to Dré Bly. Even though I have found myself grumbling at Bly during games, I know that, with more pressure on the QB, both Champ and Bly would appear to improve dramatically . . . and the safeties, too. As long as the QB has the time to stop for lunch during passing plays, the CBs are going to have a hard time, no matter who’s playing back there.
Champ doesn’t need to go. A couple real pass rushers need to arrive . . .
Never argue with a fool, lest you take on his appearance. - my daddy
by AZDynamics on
Dec 22, 2008 8:22 PM MST
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Real good corners on real good teams look awesome,
Deion, Woodson and all the great ones….but a good corner on a bad defense, Bailey and Asomugha. A talent that you avoid by putting them on an “island” and attack the other 10 slackers.
IM NOT THE ONLY ONE when everything is lost that doesn't surrender
by Steve O' on
Dec 22, 2008 8:53 PM MST
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What they need
Draft a franchise RB in RD 1 or 2 pick up a MLB in free agency, Andre Davis or Mike Peterson… Safety in FA like Jermaine Philips and draft best players available. Broncs need strong vet leadership at MLB and a heavy hitter at Safety and a stud RB like Andre Brown or whoever from the draft.
by Markus2112 on
Dec 22, 2008 10:04 PM MST
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Wasn’t Peterson demoted to second string by the Jaguars this year?
Bolts from the Blue // "It is what it is." - A.J. Smith
Bloody Elbow // "Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." - H.L. Mencken
by Richard Wade on
Dec 22, 2008 10:42 PM MST
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yes
somethings wrong, Trying to conquer these fears i thought were gone. And it's been so long, I'm dying to live in a world i don't belong
by broncfanstuckinsd on
Dec 23, 2008 11:43 AM MST
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I don't anyone elses garbage. It's time to draft a MLB and make him a Bronco.
This is my GAP, there are many like it but this one is mine. Without my GAP I am useless, without me, they will run through my GAP. I will protect my GAP and have my brothers back on his. I will not be moved from my GAP, I am a crazed dog that patrols this area and will defeat all who entire it. I own this GAP, it is mine. I bought it with blood and sweat. I will not be pushed. I will not be moved. This Sunday I will make a stand and a statement.
by Zappa on
Dec 23, 2008 11:56 AM MST
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i never like him before he went jax
He got benched because he is such a team player.
somethings wrong, Trying to conquer these fears i thought were gone. And it's been so long, I'm dying to live in a world i don't belong
by broncfanstuckinsd on
Dec 23, 2008 7:11 PM MST
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What about a DE?
The only way Denver is going to increase their turnover ratio is if they get pressure on the QB which will force him to make bad throws which will turn into interceptions.
by broncoholic on
Dec 23, 2008 9:51 AM MST
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Peterson
Peterson was demoted because he was complaining about his contract and the Jags defense went into the tank without him. I like Andre Davis and Jermaine Philips. I don’t like Ben Hamilton, I’d get a RB and a Left Guard in the first two rounds and address MLB and Safety through FA. Pick a FA MLB I don’t care which one, anyone has to be better than what we have. I’m open to any suggestions other than Nate Webster or Niko. Peterson is a great player but he’s not my first choice.
by Markus2112 on
Dec 23, 2008 7:31 AM MST
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I had to sleep on it...
Denver is at a crossroads on Defense again, but this off season will be more urgent because the offense can dominate for 8 to 10 games a year. The defense needs to give up around 20 points a game on average (the less the better, but lets be reasonable). If the defense can do that, then Denver will win 11-13 games a year.
If Denver’s going to have immediate success on defense, A LOT of things are going to have to go right.
1) We need to have a healthy season (luck)
2) We need a bigtime FA Saftey, Linebacker, or Tackle
3) We need a bigtime, impact 1st round Safety, Tackle, or Linebacker
4) We need depth at Safety, Tackle, and D-Back from the draft
5) We need a second year player or two to start on defense
6) We need to find a way to use Elvis Dumervil’s talent
7) We need to cut our losses with older players that are on the downside (Engelberger, Ekuban
8) We need to cut our losses on guys that aren’t starters for the top 15 defenses in the league (Webster, Niko)
9) We need a scheme that isn’t just about speed, but is more about physicality. The Steelers and Titans are more physical than fast.
My opinion:
Personally, I’d like to see Denver go all in on Haynesworth. It’sll be his 8th year and he’s at the peak of his game. He averages almost 13 games per season, so he’s not a huge injury risk. I’d also like to see Denver try to draft Peria Jerry (Ole Miss), and then our DT situation is an afterthought for the next 4 years. Denver needs to key on the Safety from USC (trade up with later picks) or a guy like him on day 1.
I think Winborn is a starter and I think Woodyard is a starter. I think DJ has to go back to the middle or he has to play for somebody else. Can you imagine the middle of the D if Jerry and Haynesworth were paving the way for DJ on every play? WOW!
Marcus Thomas and Powell (our rookie on IR) rotate at DT. Denver uses Moss and Doom at DE.
Denver keeps Champ and cuts Bly (more on thios later). Denver looks at FA corners (not the top tier) and 2nd day draft picks.
Denver also needs to find a band-aid solution for a RB. Torain could be good, but we need someone established. I’d rather sell out on defense early in the draft and try to get lucky later in the draft and spend some nickel on Ricky Williams or Derrick Ward. They can both catch, block, and are powerhouse backs with straight line speed.
Cut D-Rob. Cut Bly. Cut Boss. Cut Niko. if you have to, Cut Champ if you can’t free up close to $11M in space. We’ll have to ask Champ to renegotaite and backload his existing contract. He may do it if it means a defense like what I am talking about building.
Maybe I’m smoking something, but this is do-able.
by super7 on
Dec 23, 2008 9:47 AM MST
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Excellent comment dude
We need a bigtime FA Saftey, Linebacker, or Tackle
Change the word “or” to AND. lol ;-)
This is my GAP, there are many like it but this one is mine. Without my GAP I am useless, without me, they will run through my GAP. I will protect my GAP and have my brothers back on his. I will not be moved from my GAP, I am a crazed dog that patrols this area and will defeat all who entire it. I own this GAP, it is mine. I bought it with blood and sweat. I will not be pushed. I will not be moved. This Sunday I will make a stand and a statement.
by Zappa on
Dec 23, 2008 10:01 AM MST
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Defensive Tackle
I hope the Broncos get a DT with 3 years experience. That is about how long it takes to learn the NFL position. Not sure about “Head Stompin Hainsworth” however.
Victor Frankl:
What man actually needs is not a tensionless state but rather the striving and struggling for some goal worthy of him. What he needs is not the discharge of tension at any cost, but the call of a potential meaning waiting to be fulfilled by him.
Everything can be taken from a man but one thing: the last of the human freedoms – to choose one’s attitude in any given set of circumstances, to choose one’s own way.
by wyoeng on
Dec 24, 2008 9:57 PM MST
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Im not inclined to cut
Champ at all. I dont mind your other cuts. For one if the Broncos want to get rid of him then trade him. He is still too valuable to just let him walk. But IMO I want him on this team. He is a great player and a team leader. Character guy. Who at the worst is a good teacher to our young corners. But for our secondary to thrive and be as good as it should be the Broncos need a rush. DE , DT, MLB, and a safety
somethings wrong, Trying to conquer these fears i thought were gone. And it's been so long, I'm dying to live in a world i don't belong
by broncfanstuckinsd on
Dec 23, 2008 11:46 AM MST
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I don't know if I would say
that Ekuban is on the downside. I believe he currently leads the team in sacks.
Not bad for someone who is just supposed to be a run stopper.
"It's all over Fat Man" - Tom Jackson to John Madden 1977 AFC Championship Game
"Superman wears Peyton Hillis pajamas" - FlaBronco
by DesertBroncoFan on
Dec 23, 2008 11:44 AM MST
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some day
cutler might be considered really good
too bad he’ll never be as good as philip rivers….till then he can cry about rivers being a big bad bully…..that wins
by dirtballer on
Dec 23, 2008 3:45 PM MST
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For a second there
I didn’t know who you were talking about. I thought maybe Phyllis had a brother or something. I have been calling him Phyllis for so long that i forgot he had a real name!
Concision in style, precision in thought, decision in life.
by styg50 on
Dec 23, 2008 4:03 PM MST
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Phyllis
is the douches name. But how good can you really be when Favre can get your spot on the pro-bowl?
somethings wrong, Trying to conquer these fears i thought were gone. And it's been so long, I'm dying to live in a world i don't belong
by broncfanstuckinsd on
Dec 23, 2008 7:13 PM MST
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something coming through
I know your a fan but you come across as a “glass half empty” I agree about the defense but it is one step at a time and who of us wouldn’t have loved to be guaranteed at least a shot at the division and the play-offs with 1 game to go in a “rebuilding” year, I see this as a “glass half full” year even at 8-8, with the youth on this team the head coach the Broncos have, the owner they have and the draft and $$$’s available I see a pretty good future for this team in the AFC West, Yes the Chargers may win this weekend but these are two teams passing in the night Denver on the way up and the Chargers on the way down (mostly because of the owners) and with the raiders still being run into the ground by A.D. the only challenge the Broncs are going to have for the next few years is KC they look a little scary if they can continue to gel. Besides they are fun to watch every week!!! You never know who is going to be the new hero!!!
by lovewatchinthegame on
Dec 24, 2008 6:23 PM MST
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NEED A BETTER DEFENSE
I believe for the most part the Defense has been the most underachieving area of this team. With the exception of a few players who come to play every Sunday, watching Denver’s defense is embarrassing. Im a long time Bronco fan and have the utmost respect and admiration for Mike Shanahan for what he’s done as a coach in Denver, but as a GM he’s made some very poor choices in picking defensive players whether it be via the draft or free agency over the past few years. I think Bowlen Needs to step up and have a long sit down with Shanahan and Seriously I do mean seriously consider hiring a top notch defensive coordinator to rebuild this team.
by Kbast on
Dec 24, 2008 10:17 PM MST
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