MHR University - Who Should Start, and Why

At least, he has to me. As much as I want to see Woodyard play, his natural position is WILL (in my opinion), and he is best served backing up DJ.

Larsen has been making the plays and hits on ST, K2 is usally getting run out of the play. I agree, seems like the scouting personel missed this one, hopefully it won’t cost us much if we dump his sorry butt next season. I think the oly reason he is on the roster is because Denver doesn’t want to eat that much money.

I liked his speed, as well as his STs contributions. He may yet work his way up. I think he is iffy, but Webster is just not the right fit. Perhaps, with K2 listed at #2, we’ll see.

While I’ll miss Larsen at MLB, I’ll love to see what Hillis can do with a FB. Hillis caused carnage without a FB against a good, run stuffing team. This may be fun!

Remember how juiced up everyone was for Niko? Our LB corps with Niko, DJ, and Boss was going to be our unit of strength on our defense. My how the season changes…

In reality, most players / organizations do not say negative things about a departed player or staff. We all bought into the comment that Niko would be the starter if not for for their existing MLB. The second stringer would be the starter if there was no one ahead of him?

But now we’re distributing to many specialized roles to too many players. Let’s let Larsen settle in at FB or MLB. While I really want a great MLB for this team, I think Larsen has a lot to contribute at FB for the reasons I listed in the story.

Teams are going to wise up to Hillis out of the single back sets. We need a FB going forward, and I just don’t think Pinnock is it. Just my opinion.

I could see us rotating through the FBs and RBs such that Larsen is FB for Hillis or Selvin or Pope and Hillis could be FB for Selvin or Pope!

That would keep Larsen fresh for playing MIKE but still allow him to block occasionally for Hillis, then when Larsen needs a breather, have Hillis at FB and Selvin/Pope at RB. That would quite the dilemma to the defender about who’s going to get the ball and am whether he’s going to get smashed or get run past).

…a lot of the LB issues would be solved. Then, all we would need would be solid DTs.

I think I have explained the Broncos reasoning for what they are doing, but (like many here) I’m not sure if it is the best way to proceed. I know that we will need a FB to block for Hillis, now that the League knows what we have got. (Hillis running out of single back formations will be game planned for). I really do see where the Broncos are coming from; as bad as the need is at MLB, we will need the support moving forward in the running game. I just wish we could compensate for the problems at MLB.

Who knows? Maybe we’ll see a clever wrinkle this Sunday that we haven’t thought of!

I think Woodyard can be a great MLB if he wants to and has the smarts for it. That’s the only question. He has ability and plays hard. Can he handle lining up the D? Can he read the offenses well? Can he take the pressure of being the MLB? The coaches will address that in the offseason and either start working him that way or bring in someone else.

Perhaps Woodyard can be trained for a different LB spot, but it isn’t as easy as it sounds. Some folks have talked about safety, but I’m sure the coaches have considered every angle on that.

Brown wouldn’t be a bad choice, and he looks to be a value choice for our range, i.e., 21-32 (playoff teams). His size makes him a possible at LDE or at least an every down player, but he’s really a ‘rush’ DE so there’s a problem of crowding, with Moss and Dumervil. The DE crop tips heavily to pass rushers so it’s much easier to find one of them, but it may be a bad fit for our needs.

I’ve been focused on figuring out a way for the Broncos to efficiently rebuild their defense, and at times it’s like remodeling your upstairs while building a new foundation.

We’ve focused on the MIKE and S positions partly because of need, of course, but it’s also easier to rebuild when you can simply stick a high pick into a position of need. Much of my attention lately has been on the strongside, both at SAM and LDE. The solutions for some of our problems may lie there. As Papi says below, a late 1st rounder like Cushing should be available, and he could help at either LDE or SAM. He can also help at MIKE, which could un-complicate the LB situation somewhat, and cover the 2 positions at LB where we’ve had performance and/or injury problems. I like Freeman (OLB, Ohio St.) partly because he provides this same type of solution for our problems.

I’ve been persuaded by others lately regarding where we need to help the DL. The DT position is still a concern but LDE is looking more like an area that we should be focusing on. We should also be evaluating the RDE position, too, since fixing one DE position may impact the other position. We need to become more stout against the run (we’ve made progress lately) but pass rush is and has been a concern — upgrading at DE should help us in both.

…that will do well for us, but we need depth, and at least one run stuffer going forward. I agree.

Of course, I think the DEs will play better if we have better DTs. But several of our DEs are getting older, and we will be needing more help there.

but I think the best thing is DJ at WILL backed up by Woodyard, Boss at SAM backed up by Winborn, and ?? at MLB backed up by ???. It would be great if Niko or Larsen could earn the starting job at MIKE next offseason, and then Webster could finish his career backing them up, but the Broncos will need to make a decision before then.

I think that decision will be to ignore a high draft choice MLB (unless a cherry pick falls into their laps), and plan on Webster starting with Larsen and Niko pushing him and fighting for the backup spot.

I know it sounds suicidal, but I would bet money that this is exactly what happens…

Our need at line Backer is a consistent play maker at strong side, to go with the play making ability we have with DJ at WLB. Our MLB needs to be a rock that can direct play and put the other 2 backers in the best position to make plays. This combo will also give the MLB the ability to make plays too.
Thats why I am high on taking Brian Cushing from USC at SLB, we have our rock in Larsen, whos play reminds me lots of Zach Thomas which is scary good, and have a stud in DJ.
I am a bit of a gambler, but if I were Denver I would some how try and go after Cushing and Taylor Mays by packaging some picks. If not Mays, Patrick Chung from Oregon.
At DL, go get Haynesworth. He will be interested.

Rant and all , that’s something that has bothered me as well. I recall an article on NE’s unconcern with metrics in the draft. They notice them, but are far more concerned with whether people can play. In Miami, Parcells is turning around a garbage program by concentrating on solid, physical play. I’m hopeful that the Goodman’s will influence this on the Broncos, but it would take time.

As much as I love our last draft, some problems with repeated injury showed. We gave Boss a very nice contract without taking his history into account (thanks to styg for pointing this out immediately). I think Aldrige is a solid scatback, but look how long he lasted. I did matial arts semi-pro in another life – if both are equally well trained, a smaller man loses to a big man over time. Same seems to be true in football. We’ve worn down in the later half of games and seasons for a long time now, more often than not.

Size does matter, if skill is equal. Let’s hope for that in the next draft and off-season.

…ww and larsen know how to tackle, and repeatedly are praised for their "nose for the ball"

What is “nose for the ball” other than the ability to rapidly recognize what’s happening and react to it? That’s what made Lynch so good, even though he was relatively slow in a straight line. His read and reaction time gave him a head start over “faster” players. That’s one reason our recent drafts have been so productive. The Broncos are apparently paying more attention to how effective a player is on the field than how good a track athlete he is. Maybe if somebody reads your rant (hey, we can hope) they’ll move further in that direction.

Speed at LB is a key part of the defenses we have run over the years. A lot of folks fall into the false paradigm of thinking that you can have fast guys who don’t tackle, or big / slow guys who tackle well. I disagree with this line of thinking. Tackling is a minimum standard on defense, whether a guy is big, small, slow or fast.

In other words, a valid system can include fast guys (who tackle well), or big run stuffers (who tackle well). A good example of speed was the DJ / Al Wilson / Gold LB group. All were known for their speed, but none of them lacked the ability to tackle.

Time to see what Shaw’s impact was on the line.

And good thoughts on how much more elevated the play will need to be to compete in the playoffs. Chances are we are going to get a hot team, not a team resting on its laurels or a team backing in. heck, i don’t think there are any teams with a chance to back in, unless one of the division leaders starts to tank… everyone else still has the climb in front of them

Going into the playoffs, we need experience over raw talent. While I’m not a fan of Webster, and I see more potential in Larsen than you do, I think the staff is certainly giving the edge to experience heading to the playoffs. Webster may not be good, but playoff teams will gameplan the Hell out of confusing younger players.

Keep Hillis at RB. Keep Pittmann too! (Excellent 1-2 power punch).

Groom Larsen fo MLB, or draft someone, or take another look at K2 even.

Agree with leaving DJ alone.

Solid thoughts!

But Nate is what he is: a liability to his teammates, who can’t ever depend on him to be where he needs to be, doing what he needs to do.

Larsen had an excellent game in his two way start vs. ATL. He was decent vs. Oakland in split time with Mario Haggan. Against the Jets he came out with injuries twice (probably the same injury) and finally stayed out, and Hagan finished the game in strong form. There were some bad missed gaps and missed tackles in all three of those games but zero came from the MLB. That will change when Nate comes back in.

As to his “big plays” I addressed the TD above. I loved the running he showed on the TD, especially the nifty little spin move, but there were about nine broncos around him when he ran that in. And it wasn’t like he caused the fumble, or is a known fumble causer. He tries to be, no doubt about it, but for all his effort to make the Big Hit, he has more “helmets-popped-off” and missed tackles than he does forced fumbles.

If webster starts vs. the chiefs and only has one tackle, but has NO missed tackles and seems to be in the proper gap (sometimes it is hard to tell which assignment belongs to who) then I think this may be one of the few places where people WILL NOT be calling for his head, but instead noting that, behind the poor numbers, he has made progress.

If you only look at stats.
The way this defensive system is run, the MLB’s job is to control the flow of play and sheppard it back to where others can make plays. Secondly, the MLB then puts himself in position around the ball as a secondary support in the run, and obviously, in the short pass game shadowing TE’s.
If you watch most run plays, Larsen is ALWAYS around the ball, and run plays have been getting stopped for short gains. Larsen’s gap control has been awesome, and this forces the RB to either change direction (back into our other D players) or he is stopped for minimal gain.
ALL of this years big gainers on the ground have been given up by lack of gap control by mainly Nate Webster (Larry Johnson’s run) and Jaime WInborn (Both Thomas Jones runs vs Jets). This is a lack of fundamentals. These are the fundamentals that Larsen firmly has in place.
When all this happens, and runs are giving up minimal yards, it forces 3rd and longs, forces the opposition to throw and allows us to be aggressive with our DB’s.
One of the major reasons for us playing soft zone all year with our DB’s has been a lack of gap control by guys like Webster, Winborn and Boss. It allows our defense to not make plays.
No coincidence in the time that Larsen and WW have been starting Dre has had 2 picks and our pass defense has got better. Our DB’s have been able to play man, be aggressive on the ball and we have forced some turnovers.
All starts by having a rock like Larsen that has a nose for the ball and can read the play that limits an oppositions running game.
Thats why, under NO circumstances can I support Nate Webster…ever. He has 9 years of playing the same way, and its not going to change all of a sudden. He has had seasons to change his style of play.
Thanks Antonio and GO BRONCOS!

I think it was just the big thing on people’s minds this week. It was a good question by BornOrange (e-mailed to the site via Guru), and I just kind of threw it out to the members.

MHR has the best readers of any site, sports or otherwise. I like how the comments are intelligent, polite, and plentiful. Our members also write some terrific posts too.

I just love us!

I seem to remember reading somewhere that Shanny switched back to the 4-3 this year because of the injuries. With that being said, provided that we pick up different DL for a 3-4 (namely a NT), we would now need 2 starting ILB.

Back to the 4-3? Not sure what you mean. Denver’s been running a 4-3 for years. We did experiment with a 3-4 earlier this year but, as I understand it, it was actually more of a 4-3 with a lineman missing and an extra linebacker. That is, not a true 3-4, and it didn’t seem to be that effective. If we went to a 3-4 we’d have to commit to a thorough revamping of our front seven, which would set back our rebuilding plans several years. I don’t see that happening.

Given some of the young defensive talent we’ve uncovered, it will be interesting to see what Shanahan et al think they need in the draft. We need help at safety, and even if some of us are too hard on Webster we’re average at best at Mike. With the emergence of Woodyard and Winborn in addition to D.J. and Boss I think we’ve in good shape on the outside, so it’s only with Mike that I feel a sense of urgency. Given that Woodyard has speed, is a good tackler, has a nose for the ball, and has played safety before, I’m intrigued at the possibility of him changing positions during the offseason, but who knows what Shanny’s thinking? Our needs, I think, are safety, d-line, and linebacker, in that order. We need help at safety to contain the damage (no instant six) when the runner breaks through the line. We need to continue upgrading the line to make sure that doesn’t happen very often.