Horse Tracks 3/11/08
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Here's a Tuesday edition of Horse Tracks. Enjoy!
Mike Kils mentions there are still holes to fill. The most glaring is kicker and fullback. See here
Kils also answered some fan questions in the Denver Post's mailbag too. See here
Former Bronco and now conquered fader Javon Walker has quite an agent. It's a shame that the Post got it out a week late. See here
Former FB and Super Bowl champ Howard Griffith has been active in Illinois. He is pushing for a bill to help adoptees find an identity. Read for yourself here
AFC West
Here's a sign that a franchise is in horrible shape. Both the 49ers and the conquered fader nation are such a concern because of incompetent owners that Roger Goodell may be forced to step in. See here
Another blog wonders if the conquered fader nation would be better off if "Mr. Burns" aka Al stepped down. See here
No news from either the Chefs or Phyllis and his merry men.
NFL News
It looks like the NFL is not immune to economic woes either. HBO after 31 years cancelled "Inside the NFL" forcing NFL Films to lay off 21 workers. See here
Who says you can't go home again? Warrick Dunn is going back to where he started...Tampa Bay. See here
Bottom of the Barrel
Will the Spygate thing ever go away? I guess not. See here
0 recs |
71 comments
Comments
I'm starting to feel about Spygate...
by Squeaky on Mar 11, 2008 10:03 AM MDT reply actions 0 recs
49er fans need to realize one thing
The Raiders...they are in even worse shape. lol
by Tim Lynch on Mar 11, 2008 11:41 AM MDT reply actions 0 recs
The Raiders in worse shape?
How does that taste? MMM MMM Good!
OakFoSho
by OakFoSho on Mar 11, 2008 6:51 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm sure you thought
And are you really talking smack that your team has won one of the last six against the Broncos? I know that is the best weapon you've got, but I would have thought you would be smart enough to keep your mouth shut.
by MattR on Mar 11, 2008 7:02 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Aha!
OK, I'll begin, We have three SB Titles. Due to the fact that this is the only real stat that matters, well it looks like I win.
OakFoSho
by OakFoSho on Mar 11, 2008 8:19 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Just curious...
by MN Bronco on Mar 12, 2008 9:53 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes we have seen him, but.........
OakFoSho
by OakFoSho on Mar 12, 2008 6:49 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
He weighs 272 lbs.....
OakFoSho
by OakFoSho on Mar 14, 2008 6:04 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
You are referring here
by Jeremy Bolander on Mar 14, 2008 6:57 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
It can be argued that the Raiders.....
Anyways, no that is not what I meant, even if you are just talking about those two periods of time. The Raiders organization is like a big black box. You can't see in, and very little gets out. This is why reporters try and make up rumors, because they dislike being held out of the loop, and want to drive the Raiders to respond, which they rarely do, unliess the rumor is just too rediculous, IE "J Money is 300 lbs".
OakFoSho
by OakFoSho on Mar 14, 2008 7:43 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
interesting fact
The Cardinals own rights to 48 players, counting three restricted free agents and franchise player Karlos Dansby. The other 31 teams claim 64 players on average. The Denver Broncos claim a league-high 78. Arizona is the only team with fewer than 54 (Kansas City).
by TommyTSlice on Mar 11, 2008 2:00 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
What this means is....
by mdierk on Mar 11, 2008 2:31 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe the broncos have too many guys... but
How many people are left out there to be signed? The Free Agency is in a sad state.
If those extra 20 guys on the teams roster that get cut don't have quality, then your training camp becomes week. You can't find good future depth.
by amirebram on Mar 11, 2008 10:26 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Marlon McCree's contract
s base salaries on their website.
Manuel is getting 750K in 2008, 1.25 million in 2009 and 1.5 million in 2010. He was reported to get a 500K signing bonus. The total contract value was reported as 4.5 million which leave 500K unaccounted for.
As for McCree, he signed for only one year with a base salary of $1.5 million. There are no details on signing or other bonuses.
by MattR on Mar 11, 2008 6:40 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
Again......Conquered?
OakFoSho
by OakFoSho on Mar 11, 2008 6:55 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
yes Conquered...
By the way, I loved when that tuck rule screwed you guys!
by mdierk on Mar 11, 2008 7:10 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Tuck Rule?
By the way, the Raiders running game is going to be even better this season in year two in the system, so get ready to get Smacked Again! Just like last year.
OakFoSho
by OakFoSho on Mar 11, 2008 8:27 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
HUH
by TommyTSlice on Mar 11, 2008 9:59 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
More like
by Jeremy Bolander on Mar 11, 2008 10:36 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Actually.....
OakFoSho
by OakFoSho on Mar 11, 2008 11:16 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ahhh, so not only are you a Raider fan,
;)
by Tim Lynch on Mar 12, 2008 5:59 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
LOL!
OakFoSho
by OakFoSho on Mar 12, 2008 6:53 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
What is wrong
by Jeremy Bolander on Mar 12, 2008 9:59 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Actually, Denver will be.....
OakFoSho
by OakFoSho on Mar 13, 2008 1:08 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Apparently you haven't seen...
They have also reported that this winter has the most snow cover nationwide since 1966. Ask Guru, he had to dig out of 2 feet of snow last weekend.
by mdierk on Mar 13, 2008 8:21 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Pay attention to the word SPORADIC ......
I can guarantee that the figures will be well below normal nation wide, and in Colorado. However if Colorado escapes the effects for one winter, that will not be unusual.
If you still want to argue, go watch An Inconvenient Truth, I know its mainstream, but its the easiest way for you all to learn quickly that we are all screwed without change.
OakFoSho
by OakFoSho on Mar 13, 2008 1:10 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sorry,
by mdierk on Mar 13, 2008 1:24 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm with you, Gore doesn't make any sense
Makes a lot more sense than any of his theories...
by Jeremy Bolander on Mar 13, 2008 2:37 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes Sun Cycles....
OakFoSho
by OakFoSho on Mar 14, 2008 12:07 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ahh
What with the suncycle discoveries and all...
by Jeremy Bolander on Mar 14, 2008 12:34 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Always and forever....
OakFoSho
by OakFoSho on Mar 14, 2008 2:38 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
And no I am not calling you a Dummy...
OakFoSho
by OakFoSho on Mar 14, 2008 2:40 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
I see
Bjorn Lomborg's statistical analysis, though his explicit ideas generated from the data are pretty lame. He didn't react well to the whole "pie in the face" thing and he has backed off of his initial claims quite a bit in the media, even explicitly denying some of it. However the data he uncovered is still out there, whether he likes it or not, and it is too late for him to take it back.
This video though be prepared to chuckle a little at the weight given to suspicion of conspiracy. Conspiracy theories are nice and all, but when bad science and bad politics abound, the culprit is usually wholesale acts of evasion of the obvious, not concentrated efforts by armies of bad guys. There are some philosophical issues they gloss over which undercuts the message tehy are trying to deliver, but the testimony from scientists cuts a pretty broad and comprehensive swath through where the legitimate research is heading.
The late economist Julian Simon's book "The Ultimate Resource" and his updated version "The Ultimate Resource 2". Not directly related to the science behind environmentalism, but relevant in terms of discovering the motive guiding environmentalism's intellectual leaders.
Let me know what you think.
by Jeremy Bolander on Mar 14, 2008 4:44 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hey Styg,
We can discuss how I had to replace global cooling projections taught to school children from the 1960's through the mid 80's with materials changing over to global warming. I used those lessons at the same time I used "Animal Farm" and "1984". (We also melted ice cubes in glasses of water to show that there was no change in water level).
I know it isn't as simple as that, but I take the word of a friend of mine from my grad school days who was a climatologist. He shared with me how the Academy of Sciences ripped the global warming crowd, and explained to me the political origins of the global warming conspiracy theorists and how they brainwash kids in a lot of colleges now a days. Of course, I saw a lot of revisionist history being taught in political science when I was a prof too.
by Steve Nichols on Mar 14, 2008 5:14 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Dudes.......
OakFoSho
by OakFoSho on Mar 14, 2008 6:20 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Environmental Nazi
I believe our climate change is going to happen no matter what. After that, an Ice Age will come about. Our current temperate climate is actually an abberration in our Earth history.
Go hug a tree and blame humanity for all of our problems. Actually, blame AMERICA for all of Earth's problems...nevermind that China is the worst polluter anywhere.
by Tim Lynch on Mar 13, 2008 10:43 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
fader running game
They didn't give Bush a chance last year (when they had ideal opportunities) so this year, when they will actually be able to win a few games and might have something worth playing for, no doubt they will find some grand way to ruin the kids career.
The faders should be fined for what they've done to young talent in this league...
by Jeremy Bolander on Mar 11, 2008 10:03 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Fargas is a perfect fit.....
OakFoSho
by OakFoSho on Mar 11, 2008 11:10 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yah, because you are starting to copy our scheme
Yes the best you have are our cast-offs.
by amirebram on Mar 11, 2008 10:30 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
While the Raiders do run the ZB scheme.....
OakFoSho
by OakFoSho on Mar 11, 2008 11:14 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
We need to have an article on MHR University
More importantly, there is no zone block without the chop block, otherwise an OL couldn't block a DL who is slanting in the same direction as the OL, but where the OL is in front of the OL. In sum, you can't run a zone block scheme without chop blocking, unless you are willing to not block (at all) every one gap lineman or LB who is slanting (which is just over half of the time).
by Steve Nichols on Mar 12, 2008 3:14 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Didn't they just start to go ZB heavy just ...
So, yah mr faider, you did start to copy the Broncos. There is a reason you have 2 former Bronco linemen.
A couple of other teams that used former broncos linemen are/were Atlanta and Huston--both use(d) ZB scheme. They even both used former denver OL coach Alex Gibbs.
by amirebram on Mar 12, 2008 5:46 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
I second this notion, even the
Sneaky, you started this crap talking extravaganza!
by Tim Lynch on Mar 12, 2008 6:01 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
First of all....Are you serious man....
I think that Hoosier teacher needs to go back to school, before he embarrasses any more Donkey fans with his completely false statements.
OakFoSho
by OakFoSho on Mar 12, 2008 7:03 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes and no.
But I wouldn't call it a gray area. The two are very distinct and the chop block doesn't figure into zone blocking at all.
You had mentioned in an earlier thread that:
"we do not employ the Donkey's method of illegal cut blocking below the knees. The Raiders legally cut block at the thighs."
I took that to mean that there are legal and illegal "cut blocks", which you have since corrected with your current comment. An "illegal block below the knees" is not cut blocking as described in your first comment. I am willing to accept this was an honest mistake, since you have cleared up the error in your subsequent comment.
I don't see where I have made any false statements as you state. If you do, I hope you will point them out so I can defend them or correct them.
by Steve Nichols on Mar 13, 2008 6:02 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
HT is such a great guy
by Jeremy Bolander on Mar 13, 2008 2:38 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Your mistake is clear to see,
"I think you need to learn the difference between a cut block (illegal) and a chop block (legal). Denver chop blocks, and frankley, so does oak. And in your comment you mention "legaly cut blocking", which of course is an oxymoron. There is no legal cut block."
In fact, cut blocks are LEGAL, to a certain extent, and chop blocks are ILLEGAL, always. THis is your mistake. Also, as for you saying I contradicted myself and made a mistake, I made it very clear in my second comment that a legal cut block is at the thighs, or ABOVE the knees, and an illegal cut block is BELOW the knees. This changes nothing about my first comment, rather it only serves to expound further on the previous statement. Nothing changed in my logic or argument.
OakFoSho
by OakFoSho on Mar 14, 2008 12:15 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Again, you are correct.
The juxtaposition of the terms "cut" and "chop" were my error of course, but I would hope (that by implication) you might note that I not only used the terms correctly subsequently, but also correctly in our previous discussion some weeks ago. You might then have recognized that I had made in error in typing out my thoughts, and that I was familiar with the terms (and not trying to "falsify" anything).
You might also note that I extended that kind of courtesy to you by noting that your slip of using the phrase "illegal" cut blocks was a genuine mistake.
However, I'll reiterate that a block below the knees is just plain illegal and has nothing to do with cut blocking. It is not the purpose of cut blocking, nor the intent. You could call any block below the knees an illegal "something or other block" and it would be immaterial. For instance, an "illegal pass block below the knees" would imply that there is a correlation between pass blocking and going for the knees.
Last, you may have missed it, but I stated in my previous comment to you that you were correct in defining the terms. I thought you would understand from that admission that I had recognized that I had misplaced the terms in much the same way that you had associated "cut" with "illegal". So you really didn't need to explain to me in your last comment that I had erred. I had already conceeded the point. Whether you can do the same is your choice.
by Steve Nichols on Mar 14, 2008 5:02 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
You still dont get it......
The conversation we had took place months ago, the week prior or after the Raider's beat the Donkeys in Denver, and I cannot remember your exact words, so if you want to cite the conversation details, put up the link, otherwise I will assume you have not really gone all the way back and looked at it.
I am glad that we are on the same page regarding the legality of the Chop and Cut blocks, however there is still more that you need to understand. The chop block is clearly defined as a block that occurs when a block below the waist comes from the 'side or the back', or when the defensive player is 'engaged with another' offensive player and therefore defenseless.
This definition fails to cover the below the waist block from the front, IE the cut block. Therefore there has two be a separate definition to cover the cut block to determine what is legal. As a result there is a legal, AND AN ILLEGAL way to cut block, that have nothing to do with the Chop block, cause neither is covered in the definition of a chop block.
Again, a legal cut block is above the knees, while an ILLEGAL CUT BLOCK is below the knees FROM THE FRONT as this area is not covered in the Chop block definition. So yes, all teams cut block, but the Donkeys illegally cut block, and the proof of this is in the disproportionate #s of injuries caused by Donkey cut blocks compared to other teams that employ the practice of cut blocking on a regular basis, mostly those teams that run the ZB scheme.
Thus, my use of the phrase "illegal cut block" is correct, as is the rest of my analysis on this subject.
OakFoSho
by OakFoSho on Mar 14, 2008 8:04 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
And you were doing so well
The cut block as used in the ZB scheme is not from the front. I'll cover that in my Univ. article. (You'll recall, perhaps, that it is used predominantly against slanting, one gap runners.) Some people try to defend the cut block by saying it is a legal block because it is executed to the front. This is not entirely correct, and I don't do it. The helment is to the front of the defender (otherwise the block is an illegal block to the rear), but the actual impact from the OLs shoulder is to the defender's thigh. So you could call the block a "frontal" block, and many people will in defense of the block. By the rules it is also because of the location of the helment. But you and I both know (because I have been involved in years of coaching and you because you probably do research for your dislike of the tactic) that the actual hit of the OLs shoulder pad is delivered to the "common peronial nerve" that runs down the lateral side of the thigh.
I again want to commend you for something. Most folks doing a quick online search for the term "cut block" will find it being confused with the term "chop block", even by so called "expert" sites.
However, injuries are not proof of illegality. Players can and do get injured on legal plays all of the time. Simply because a block can be delivered illegaly ("a cut block below the knees") does not invalidate the method. It is for that semantic reason that it is incorrect to associate the term "cut" with being illegal. Where a player has delivered an illegal hit because the hit was below the knees, it was not because the block was a "cut" (the proximal action), but because the block was specificaly below the knees (the definitive action).
Coming from the perspective of a team that is associated with dirty plays and ending careers, I am sure you can appreciate the difference.
by Steve Nichols on Mar 15, 2008 2:27 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
This goes unsaid as it is common knowledge....
Sure the shoulder pad hits the side of the leg, but the rule is defined with the helmet in mind, because it serves as the dividing point of a blockers body. Thus, with the head in front, the greater portion of the blockers body is then, by default, also in front. This is why the shoulder pads don't matter when defining the rules.
As a matter of fact, this is true for any block. Above the waist, without the helmet on the front side, and a block becomes a clip (unless engaged in the tackle box). Below the waist, without the helmet on the front side, and block becomes a CHOP, and thus has nothing to do with CUT Blocking from the front, which, in the end, is why the helmet in front goes without saying.
Also, again, all blocks below the waist, from the front, are cut blocks, the legality of which is determined by the location, above or below the knees, of the block. PERIOD!! There is nothing that you can say to refute this no matter how hard you try. A block from the front, below the knees, will always be called, an ILLEGAL CUT BLOCK. Associating the terms 'illegal' and 'cut block' does make sense, because the term 'CUT BLOCK' covers all blocks from the front, below the waist, legal or illegal. It cannot be said more clearly, and it cannot be refuted, CAUSE ITS THE RULES. If you have a problem with the word association, take it up with the NFL, cause I could care less. Rules are Rules, and who the hell am I to change or RENAME a block? What would you call it anyways, other than an illegal cut block? Lets see how that would sound!
Referee: "We have an illegal block, below the waist, from the front, but below the knees! 15 yard penalty, repeat the down!"
I think not! Instead tis is the reality.....
Referee: "We have an illegal cut block! 15 yard penalty, Repeat the down!"
So there it is, written out detail, by detail, so there can be no confusion. I even gave you a real life example (BONUS), so if you still have a problem, again, take it up with the NFL, its their rules, and their names regarding those rules.
Regarding Injuries: Yes they happen all the time with out illegal action, but the disproportionate # of injuries as a result of Donkey Illegal Cut Blocks, and Chop Blocks, as compared to other ZB teams, is all the proof that is needed. The Donkeys are dirty!!
OakFoSho
OakFoSho
by OakFoSho on Mar 16, 2008 3:02 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
I gave you too much credit
Second, it is you that needs to take up the issue with the NFL, not me. The NFL and I are both in agreement that the cut block is no more dangerous than any other block, and it is deemed legal.
Last, your rant about how a cut block is defined or not defined by a referee is humorous, but demonstrates that you missed my point entirely. Cut blocks are not, by themselves, illegal. Any block can be legal or illegal depending on its execution. What you and others of your ilk do is attack the cut block for being dirty, but failing to mention that it (like any other block) is NOT inherently illegal. If I used your fallacious logic, I could complain that "passes should be made illegal" and base this foolishness on the idea that because I saw a QB throw a pass out of bounds "passes" must be a dirty thing.
Denver does not have a disproportionate history of illegal blocks. This was borne out in a press conference during which Coach Shanahan showed film of other teams using the same cut blocks that Denver uses in every game. Denver's blocks are above the knees just like everyone else's. The NFL has not singled out Denver, and has not changed the rule because what Denver does is safe and legal.
Here's the kicker. Look over every season in the NFL, and see which team has led the league in BOTH penalties as well as personal fouls (dirty play) in the last 35 seasons. 24 of those seasons belong to,
wait for it.... wait for it... wait for it...
the oakland raiders.
In summation, continue to complain all you want. If you were in the right the NFL would be all over this. It is a baseless charge that some fans make because they don't understand the rules and the NFL does. It is also a charge leveled by players that don't like shooting a one gap knowing that they are going to be the guy taken down (somthing most defenders aren't used to). The bottom line is that the NFL (the authority on what the rules are and what is dirty or not) agrees with me and not you. This is not, by the way, the logical fallacy of "appeal to authority". It is a proper use of redress to "THE" authority (such as citing the Supreme Court on matters of constitutional law). You don't have to like the rule, and you may think that the rules exist the way they are soley to disadvantage your team and to help the Broncos. But you would still be engaging in conspiracies.
by Steve Nichols on Mar 16, 2008 7:12 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
WOW!! You are soooooo Slow!!
You have to be the slowest Donkey fan ever, as I already stated this like 3 times previously in defining what the NFL considers to be a CHOP block. AHA!
So again, if you have a problem with this, then take it up with the NFL. Cause you are just regurgitating the same stuff that I have proven incorrect in previous statements.
AHA! You again (for the 100th time) said...
"Cut blocks are not, by themselves, illegal."
And I, again (for the 101st time) say that there are two types of CUT block. One illegal, and one legal, both from the front, and below the waist. You know you cannot refute this, so you choose to beat a dead horse, as well as make fun of my official example. Well good, it was supposed to be funny, cause that just how your argument sounds, thus my example totally served its purpose, so thank you! AHA!
Finally, you say.....
"any block can be legal or illegal"
And this too is wrong. A chop block is always illegal, so is a Clip. A crack block is always legal, unless from the back, and then it becomes a clip or if below the waist a CHOP.
Please continue to respond, BECAUSE YOUR LACK OF KNOWLEDGE IN THIS AREA IS HILARIOUS, AND YOUR REFUSAL TO ACCEPT REALITY IS TOO!! Not to mention, every time you reply you make even more mistakes. AHA! Its beautiful, you keep digging your own grave, and no matter how clearly I spell it out to you, you just too slow to stop digging.
I feel really bad for you, really I do, anyone so stubborn not to accept truth and reality when its right in front of their face are either blind, or stupid. I'll not dare to assume which one though. However, at the same time, this is comedy.
OakFoSho
by OakFoSho on Mar 17, 2008 12:34 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Styg50 Videa Response....Global Warming.....
Ok, so the first argument in the film (Styg50s film that he wanted me to watch) is that "the climate is always changing and temperature has always been variable over a long periods of time." Al Gore says the same thing. What they fail to state, that Al Gore does not, is that the Warming period we are in now is disproportionate to other times in the past, in that it is happening over such a shorter period of time. Normally, 'Warming periods' happen over millenniums, not centuries, and plant and animal life have the chance to evolve and adapt. Unfortunately, as a result of this pace, our world is going through a period called 'the sixth great extinction', due to human populations, habitat loss, and the rapidly growing climate crises.
Sure, as the video says, there have been warmer times when the Earth was mostly covered tropical forest, and cooler times when most of the earth was covered in Ice, but those happened over lllllloooooooonnnnnggggggg periods of time, again, not centuries. Also, during warmer times, the planet had huge numbers of plant life to regulate the CO2 in the atmosphere. Yes there have been times, Warmer Times, when CO2 levels were even higher than today, however there were all those plants and trees to regulate it. If fact, the overabundance of trees in some periods, directly led to the periods of cooling, following periods of Warming, thus forming a cycle, that spanned the ages. Unfortunately, that plant life is vastly depleted, and as a result the cycle is on the verge of being broken. There is no way to regulate the CO2 levels in the atmosphere without the plant life, not to mention those CO2 figures are highly inflated due to humans, thus the Global Warming scenario we find ourselves in.
OakFoSho
by OakFoSho on Mar 14, 2008 6:41 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
The next argument the Video makes......
OakFoSho
by OakFoSho on Mar 14, 2008 6:53 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
They also failed
It seems to me that unless there were people in space that humans wanted to exert their rule over, they don't see a reason to look any further than the nearest producer...
by Jeremy Bolander on Mar 14, 2008 7:32 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
What I mean to say is
My issue with environmentalism is primarily an epistemelogical one. No matter how logical or clearly presented scientific evidence is that is presented against it, the unyielding barrier never gives. The unyielding barrier is irrationality, worship of uncertainty, indulgence in fabrication of arbitrary assertions and the enshrinement of self-sacrifice as the pinaccle of morality.
Understand, Sneaky, that I do not level these statements without care. I understand that this probably is an issue that you take very seriously, and in that light I utter these comments with the utmost gravity, because I care deeply about it too. Environmentalism at its root demands arbitrary speculation, and worse, arbitrary action usually at the behest of some government or another, i.e., under threat of force. It is a political ideology, not a scientific one. Science has no ideology. There is only fact and not fact. Reality suffers no mistake in allegiance because it is the framework that makes allegiance possible. Science is the language of that framework.
I don't address this at you Sneaky. For whatever reason you are involved in the work you are doing, and even though you are a raider fan, I still couldn't honestly believe that you are out there trying to hurt anyone. But I do wonder about your acceptance of that ideology, because it frames your work, and regardless of what good you are accomplishing through your work, that value is at risk from an ideology like that.
It is one thing to be a scientist (even an economic one) cleaning up pollution, which is harmful. It is another thing to be a cypher for a corrupt philosophy that holds anti-life as its highest value. I don't believe you are the latter. But the roots of bad philosophy extend deep into the epistemological framework of men's minds, and instead of delivering the nutrients of life they corrode and eat away at the best within us, leaving a hollow shell that isn't capable of holding us upright any longer, let alone leaving us capable of protecting anything we value. It takes a long time and the wear is sometimes unnoticeable. But one place you can always find it? In the future, when those anti-life premises go unchecked.
by Jeremy Bolander on Mar 14, 2008 8:24 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
So lets try this from another angle then.......
Its not just about Global Warming, and I think we might just have to agree to disagree here, though that is a huge part of it. Its about resource depletion, plant species extinctions, animal species extinctions, and pollution, to name a few. Honestly, I feel that enough of the world is on the 'Global Warming is Real' side of the argument, that the future is bright, at least for us humans. Also, I believe in human ingenuity, and there are already several theories as to how to reduce the GHG in the atmosphere. (One is as simple as algae production in the Ocean. The algae eat the CO2, die or are eaten, waste CO2 settles in silt.)
So while I understand your argument and problem with mainstream political environmentalists, I don't consider myself one, though I do agree with much of what they say.
OakFoSho
by OakFoSho on Mar 14, 2008 11:35 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
No disrespect intended
...And Berkley notwithstnding.
by Steve Nichols on Mar 15, 2008 2:46 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
It was just a joke......
On the contrary, my environmental views are very much a result of real world experience. I have seen the terrible result of pollution, and resource depletion in 3rd world countries, especially in East Asia. On the other hand my political views very much surround my real world experience dealing with 'poverty' in those countries, whether working or volunteering, not the environment. However, they do intertwine themselves and are highly related in many cases.
OakFoSho
by OakFoSho on Mar 16, 2008 3:13 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh come on now
For what it is worth, Colorado (and Denver) are very purple in terms of political ideology. When I was doing my grad work in poli sci I was involved in a lot of lobbying work in Denver. It wasn't uncommon to see strange political alliances because of the even divide. It was a perfect place to study politics at the city and state level. The tone was also more pleasant than in many other states because of the relative moderation of both parties.
We agree about the need to address pollution. It is clearly an issue that should be fixed. My problem is that every valid issue has extremes. Fighting for a clean environment is great, but some extremes of the environmentalist movement are political and insincere (except to the true belivers that are culled primarily from naive college kids).
Such as: "Let's ban domestic drilling and ban building refineries to process oil so that the price of oil goes up and we have to depend on oil from countries that are unfriendly to us. Then we can blame our own oil companies for being evil doers and punish them with taxes to fuel our own agendas. We can also claim to be against those 'evil' companies to get more voters to join our cause."
Both the left and the right use these methods, but it is to be hoped that most folks can see through "politics" versus bad science (particularly stats). Bad science is also used in everything from abortion to capital punishment to gun control to reporting on military engagements.
We are way off track in threads and should really stick to football. But I wish you well in all you are doing to help keep the environment clean.
by Steve Nichols on Mar 16, 2008 7:33 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
It doesn't matter what you think.....
OakFoSho
by OakFoSho on Mar 17, 2008 12:18 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sneaker, I share your concerns with environmental
Science is an open ended process of self discovery and continuous affirmation, negation and reaffirmation of significant questions. The political decision making process is based on trying to achieve a balance amongst many competing interests. The saddest aspect of this process is that the decision makers are rarely concerned with the long range impacts of their decisions or with the validity of information they use to make their decisions, they are usually more concerned with the public's perception of the information.
My fear is that a great number of knee jerk reactions are being taken by political decision makers in regards to GW. A lot of decisions that are fatally flawed are being justified because they use the rider of "helping in the fight against GW". Extremely complex decisions regarding the use of limited natural resources are often limited to one dimensional matrixes. An example would be the conversion to nuclear energy to minimize GHG from coal burners. Although the questions of proper disposal/containment of nuclear waste byproducts still need further development, the recuctions in GHGs from countries like France that have converted from coal burning to nuclear power are obvious and quantifiable. Unfortunately, the nuclear power option is often attacked vehemently by the same environmentalists that want to redues carbon emissions from coal burning. These criticisms are strange and are one of many examples of the complexity of the issue.
Sneaker, on a personal level, in spite of the fact that I am a devout rh (rader hader), I wish you the best of luck in your endeavors to mitigate the loss of habitat and other critical natural and social resources. My personal involvement with this issue has been at the municipal planning/land use level, but now that I have a full time job with the National Guard as a Facilities/Land Use Planner I hope to make a contribution by upgrading the environmental capacities of our facilities and lands and by modernizing our facilities' energy systems.
by Arctic Bronco on Mar 15, 2008 12:34 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
I believe what you are trying to say.......
However, on the Nuclear issue, you pretty much said it when you stated.....
"Although the questions of proper disposal/containment of nuclear waste byproducts still need further development"
It is for this reason that Nuclear at this point is not the viable answer. The answer, if you are asking me, is a combination of Wind Turbine Energy, Solar Energy, and Clean Coal Energy. All of these technologies are rapidly improving, and with greater focus and funding, the process of conversion to these technologies could happen very soon, and would also remove our dependence on Enemies for Oil.
For all the environmental negativity regarding China, they are leading the world in implementation in these areas. Small portions of their country are at present powered by Wind, and Solar technology, and they have huge projects to make themselves totally energy indipendent by 2030 with heavy reliance on Wind, Solar and Clean Coal. While it is true that we are ahead in green technologies, its only a matter of time before the Chinese jump ahead and become the beacon for green technologies. Some will laugh at this, but they have a very long term mindset, and they are investing ridiculously in these areas, not to mention stealing all the tech they can along the way.
OakFoSho
by OakFoSho on Mar 16, 2008 3:28 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
I would love to see wind turbines eveywhere!
by Steve Nichols on Mar 16, 2008 7:36 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wind turbines in Alaska have problems with
by Arctic Bronco on Mar 16, 2008 9:31 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Lastly.......
http://www.realclimate.org/index.php/archives/2007/03/swindled/
Try, try again buddy, cause this is fun!
OakFoSho
by OakFoSho on Mar 14, 2008 7:33 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
see above
by Jeremy Bolander on Mar 14, 2008 8:25 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

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