After all, you be the two-back specialist guy who always shoots down my calls for a franchise runner. ;) Who said it seems like the NFL Offenses are switching to a more power running attack as opposed to a speed game, making the lighter, faster defense more vulnerable to the power run game?

If someone is stronger than we are, we like to think that they are “dumb jocks”. If someone is faster than we are, what do we like to say?

btw, I run into quite a few guys faster than me in pickup basketball games…but I rarely lose, why? Because finess beats power and speed every day of the week. I steal with finess, I score with finess, and I dribble with(well not finess, I used to be a good dribbler but I only started playing basketball again a few months ago after a 6 year hiatus). In any case, the speedsters try to blow right by you so you learn to study their dribbling patterns and within a few bad beats you are stealing the ball every other drive which makes them uncertain and less aggressive which means their speed is no longer an advantage. :) As for power guys, they try to run you over on their way to the hoop. They are harder to control, but what you have to do is let them run you over a few times then jump out of the way just as they are going to dribble hard into your body and if you time it right you end up in a position to steal the ball from their backside as they stumble for that split second. Or you can also study their shooting style try to find an opening to swat the ball. I’m only 5’11” and I jump like a white boy so I usually go for the steals…blocks don’t work quite as well for me. lol

Don’t ask me where all that just came from…it’s like I type and it just flows….

How can you talk about speed in the NFL and not at least give a mention to the man most obsessed with speed in the game today, Al Davis. For those of you that don’t know, Al Davis invented the phrase ‘speed kills’, and much of his philosophy, especially at the CB and WR positions, has been built around speed. Almost every year, (or at least it seems) including the last 2, Al has taken the fastest CB prospects available. It has worked out very well most of the time. Aso, Routt, etc, etc, are great examples. Al believes he can take a good CB prospect with blazing speed, give him to Willy Brown to work with (A massive plus by the way!), and eventually they will develop into a good/great NFL CB. Sometimes it works (IE Aso, and Rout) sometimes it doesn’t (Fabian), but speed is something Al believes in taking chances on, and always will because as HT states, you cant teach speed. Al believes he can teach the other aspects of the game.

OakFoSho

I think finesse and speed are interwoven against power, and nowhere is this more clear than on the the Denver OL, where the speed and finesse of the zone block match so well with the power, one cut runners.

I don’t really advocate speed over power or vice versa. What makes Denver so wonderful (in my opinion) is the beauty in which Denver combines so many attributes.

I think Denver’s success is in large part due to the versatility of the blend of power and speed. Do we need an extra blocker? Bring in Graham at TE. Do we need an extra receiver? Bring in Scheff at TE. RBs? Torrain or Young. FBs? Sapp or Hillis. Even our QB has the versatility to be a better pocket passer than Plummer, but still a scrambling guy

Brilliant, HT.

A question – we have been ‘wearing down’ late in the last 2 seasons, and this has led to some pundits criticizing our choice to use speed, saying that over a long season, power will trump speed. I don’t know enough to form an opinion. Comments?

a brilliant write up. I love the fact that we are bringing this to the fans attention now that we are getting some of the faster guys around.

the release of the pent up beast that is the speed of the Bronco LB corps. Unleash DJ from the outside! Bring in Boss and let him loose!

Also, there are track stars whose talents translate onto the football field. Samie Parker is a particular example I can think of and there are actually a fair amount of those guys at the Pro level right now. I’ve heard their names called in the past. Football speed may have something to do with natural instinct or simply build, but I guess at the high school level you’re gonna get less track talents who translate to good football players. I’d assume it’s all a matter of practice. I know some good track guys who can also play basketball well AND play some football (particularly at the running back or receiver spots).

I am interested in hearing your comments to broncobear. I just don’t know enough.

josh barrett-4.35
eddie royal-4.39
wesley woodyard-4.51
peyton hillis-4.58
jack williams-4.36
anthony alridge-4.50
ryan clady-4.90
kory lichtensteiger-5.10

the * denotes the 40 times listed in “sporting news draft ‘08”, as i couldn’t find a time on the nfl combine site. the rest are ‘08 combine times.
keep in mind this is only 1 measurement of 1 type of speed, but i think you get the idea

clady was tied with 2 others listed as the fastest at his position
lichtensteiger was listed as second at his position
hillis is, of course, a fullback
powell, larsen, and torain are, of course, bulldogs

factor this in to the speed/quickness we already have at several positions, and we look to be a pretty fast team, no?

it looks like something took my * away from the list. what the hey! anyway, jack williams on down are from sporting news

Styg50 wrote:

Add in the injury to Lepsis and over the last two years we have not only been using undersized lineman, but weaker linemen. I think HT will be the first to tell you that our lighter, more athletic lineman are in an ideal physical position to capitalize on ‘endurance’ (as HT’s previous article stated) which is the ultimate trump card in a long season.

I’ll also take a second to offer my welcome to the site, broncobear! I have to admit, I’m having trouble keeping up with all of the great new voices!

Bear

I liked hearing the analysis of “swivel speed”. Too often we don’t get a chance to see most of the great moves on the field during plays. Concentration by the spectator is on the ball and the players around it. Champ is a good example. Many people like me can say that they know he’s a great athelete, but it would be hard to give examples by a simple verbal description of what he can do that others can’t. Another great post by the “Coach”. Thanks HT!

Pat Kirwan of nfl.com has written two posts of late (May 9 and May 19) that push the idea of the evolution of a TE/Fullback Hybrid player, empasizing receiving and blocking equally. His discussions may have been in a vein that made me curious – The third, ‘hybrid’ FB/TE that he proposes addtion to two TE’s with balanced receriving/blocking skills seemed to me to be reminiscent of your approach when recently discussing the Magic 3.

He wrote, "It was suggested to me that a few teams may be considering an old-fashioned offensive mentality that might be more from the Vince Lombardi school than the spread offense of 2007. It just might be time to send two big in-line tight end types out on to the field with a big old-fashioned fullback and a power runner. It might just be time to punch these quick defenses right in the nose with some smash-mouth power football.

"One coach told me his team’s divisional opponents dictate this switch—tighten the line splits down so quick defensive linemen can’t penetrate a gap, and roll a short-yardage philosophy out in the middle of the field.

"…It’s too early to tell if it will be a trend in 2008, but I do know offenses are getting very tempted to bring a power game to the undersized defenses around the NFL. As one offensive coordinator said to me: “Everything that goes around comes around, and it just might be time to dust off the tight splits and heavy personnel.”

Daniel Graham is a great blocking/receiving TE, so the Broncos are halfway there. While Tony Scheffter is more of a skilled receiver type, Chad Mustard, who Shanahan has really liked when he’s healthy, is a better blocking option, and Nate Jackson also has some skills. Interestingly, both Hillis and MLB pick-up Spencer Larsen, should Shanahan choose to play him at a fullback slot, have skills in receiving. Larsen hasn’t blocked in a while (unless he did so on ST?) but has excellent physical skills, an aggressive approach and could certainly learn, and Shanahan is playing him 8 days as a FB and then 8 as a LB during camp. So, we apparently have brought together personnel that could morph into both Kirwan’s concept of a scheme and/or the Magic 3.

We have often used the 2 TE approach already, so might we go towards this nascent ‘scheme’ that Kirwan suggests?

Kirwan believes that there has been an emphasis recently on lighter, ‘undersized’ defenses that would be vulnerable to both his concept of a power approach using two tight ends, a hybrid fullback, and a power runner. If he is right, and I’d be interested in your perspective on that as well, would the Magic 3 also exploit a similar set of weaknesses?

Lots of Q’s, I guess. Thanks for helping me out

Not to blow smoke up your skirt, but genius is also close. What great stuff.
I’ve turned a few people on to the MHR. Its their gain.
Thanks, HT.

Bear

like hanging in the air* in basketball, is one of those intriguing, semi-mystical sports terms that fans like to bandy about. I’m not sure, though, that firing off the line at the snap is an instance of burst or acceleration. It’s vitally important (would love to view those slowed-down films), but I think of it as recognition and reaction time, not the same thing (albeit perhaps even more important). Of the latter two, I think acceleration more often occurs in an offensive context, as in a runner accelerating through the line or out of his cut, or a receiver accelerating out of his break, and burst in a defensive context, in which a defensive player, moving towards a receiver, a running back or a quarterback, suddenly explodes to the point on the field where contact is made. Both refer, in their specific contexts, to how much and how rapidly you add speed when you’re already moving. Of course, even if initial quickness isn’t the same as burst or acceleration it might still be an aspect of “football speed”. The fact that I’m not used to thinking of it that way doesn’t mean it isn’t so.

The most obvious sense of football speed, and hence the least in need of deconstruction, is the idea that some players are slowed down less by the equipment itself. It might also be the least important. I like your notion of swivel speed. I saw a vivid example several years ago on a play by Denver RB Quentin Griffin. As Griffin took the handoff the DE came across the line and was waiting for him. Griffin gave a subtle head and shoulder fake and flashed by on the inside (the DE was so thoroughly faked out he almost fell down), past the line of scrimmage and into the secondary, without ever perceptibly slowing down. North-south runners who get upfield before defenders have a chance to converge also display what I would call a form of football speed.

Angle speed is also a useful concept, as it highlights the role of judgement. The defender has to pick out a point that (if he’s slower) he’s closer to than the runner and beat him to it. If the angle is too steep, if, in the extreme instance, he’s running at where the runner is right now, the runner has already beaten him to it and he can only chase from behind. If the angle is too shallow he gives up too much extra yardage. If there is no point he can get to first he doesn’t have the angle.

An additional form of football speed can be found in Styg’s four-part article that he and you collaborated on, John Lynch: The Decision. (For those who have not read it, it is one of the most brilliant and informative pieces I have read here or anywhere else. The four parts can be found here, here, here, and here.) In it we learn that Lynch reads and reacts with amazing speed, that his first step is almost always in the right direction, that in pursuit he takes the best angle, chooses the right gap. His football intelligence, his knowledge of the game, his speed at reading and reacting, means he’s moving in the right direction while others are still reading or moving in the wrong direction. His football speed is faster than that of many whose measured speed is considerably faster than his, for instance Curome Cox, who when subbing for Lynch often arrived late or not at all.

Arrived where? Speed implies the rapidity with which one gets from point A to point B. How fast we get from A to B in football competition, compared to our peers, is football speed. Measured speed is always faster. We don’t have to evade blockers or tacklers in getting to point B, and we know where the finish line is before we start. The player on the field not only has to avoid bodies while getting from A to B, he has to decide where B is. A defender like Lynch, who’s able to locate and head for the right spot immediately, has a head start on other defenders. In the instant when the play erupts into motion he’s already located and headed for point B. In that instant football intelligence and speed are one.

*Basketball players don’t actually hang in the air. It’s an illusion based on the changing position of the ball with respect to the player’s body. Players unconsciously learn how to do it by watching others do it.

This is truly delightful. Forgive my enthusiasm, but I have two pages of notes on the concepts so far, and more are coming.

I have been able to isolate direct or naked speed. This is track speed. It is speed without equipment, linear speed, here to there without deception, swivel, or the application of the forms of knowlege inherent to football (or basketball, or wrestling. Wrestlers and basketball players, for example, are skilled at the applications of leverage to speed, whereas this is not important in track).

Equipped speed is the opposite – in this case, in football gear.

Elusive speed – the ability to telegraph one move while completing another. This is what Howard G showed.

There is accel-deceleration speed. This is the ability to change speed while moving. The shuttles measure this, but only in a small part. Burst speed is a part of this, but only a part. Swivel speed is also, potentially, a part of this, or at least it is probably fair to say that accel-deceleration speed plays a role in swivel speed. This will require more contemplation.

“In the first area, burst is critical to linemen on both sides of the ball. There is no greater indicator of who will win a battle on the line than who fires first. ” (Note – here we are looking at reflexes – reflex speed. Can we measure those for a combine type application? Red light/green light instruments might help, but keep something in mind – the ability to anticipate is also a key here, and reaction speed, using lights, isn’t going to measure that. Only the analysis of tape, and in one on one or group on group drills will show that.

I have quite a bit more that I will not bore you with since much of it requires considerable additional analyis, but I hope that over time we might revisit these remarkable questions? The role that football intelligence plays, as in all sports, is also key, of course, and creates percieved speed - the integration of the various factors into the final skill at making plays. Micheal Jordan, near the end of his career
noted that he had, in fact, lost a step, but that did not matter since he had seen it all, and the plays now simply came to him. Lynch is clearly at this point, and Spock’s notes have been most helpful, so many thanks to him as well as HT, styg, TSG and all the contributors – what a wonderful group.

An;t wait to see your take on Force

Dag nabbed keyboard

Can’t wait anyway…