Hall of Fame vs. Hall of Very Good

put Floyd Little and Lionel Taylor on the hall of famer list. ;)

I’m glad you took Guru’s suggestion and made your comment into a post. A lot of emotions may fly at folks seeing a favorite player knocked down to HOVG, but the converation will be awesome.

I wonder if an interesting approach might be to list all of the players (minus Elway and Zimmerman) and to pick five of the remaining players as “must be allowed in the hof”. That would make it interesting too.

And I’m with Zappa. Floyd Little must be on the list somewhere, and Lionel Taylor should be on almost as assuredly as Little.

This is the first time I have been disappointed in this site. After all that has been written by Zappa, Trinidad Jack, Broncofanstuckinsd, Denver Diehard and others, including myself, how in the world can you omit Floyd Little? Floyd Little belonged in the hof before Elway.

Ted, you are a bright guy and I respect your opinion on most issues. In this case you have erred grievously. I politely ask that you immediately revise this list and add Floyd Little to the hof category.

I see you closed with the question,

Am I missing anybody?

I’m only 30, and never saw Floyd Little or Lionel Taylor play. I don’t think I’ve ever even seen film on either of them, to tell the truth. While I take Zappa’s word for their greatness as players, I can’t really add them to my list, not knowing them like he does. Randy Gradishar and Tombstone Jackson, I’ve seen old film of, and I know how great they were, which is why they’re included.

My question is that is Floyd Little is such an obvious Hall of Famer, why hasn’t he been enshrined, and why isn’t he ever mentioned by the veterans committee, or old-timer writers like Dr. Z? Dr. Z is actually who turned me on to watching Tombstone Jackson a few years ago, by his saying he should be in the HOF. I don’t ask this question to be a smart-aleck, just to see if anybody knows a reason why Floyd isn’t there.

As for Elam, he is the best kicker of his generation (yes, better than Vinatieri,) and I think great kickers should make the Hall of Fame, for as important as they are to a team’s success. The notion that kickers aren’t real players is just silly, in my opinion.

Going in more as a Buc (the team he came in with and played 10 years for) or a Bronco (the team he probably goes out with)?

Rick Upchurch….he was the standard bearer for the return game.

I haven’t quite figured out how to post it like some seems to be able to, so i throw it in here, where it actually fits pretty well. I’m sorry in advance if someone has already posted this – to much hihg-class-material on this site, for me to read it all.

Dr. Z runs through a lot of potential hall of famers including TD. Finally there is someone who think he belongs i canton! The TD-part is on page 2, but i urge you to read it all anyway.

Ted, imagine how you would feel if Elway had NOT been inducted. No reason given. And this happens year after year. People argued and fought, but the hof would not budge. Finally another star from Denver IS inducted. Not only inducted, but on the first ballot. Memories of Elway’s greatness are rekindled. We include him in OUR HOF and he is on our Ring of Fame. And then a young guy comes along with hislist and leaves Elway off. You say, “What, how can you omit Elway?” and the reply is “I never saw a film of him and the hof hasn’t considered him, therefore NO”.

You are certainly entitled to your opinion. I do not share it nor do I respect it. No one will ever convince me that Floyd Little does not legitimately belong in the hof.

...I can come up with several names that should be added to at least one of these lists. Of course Floyd Little and Lionel Taylor should be # 1 on the h.o.f. (de-emphasis added) list. You decide who’s 1a and who’s 1b. That’s my little plug for those already on this list. Other’s I think should not be left off are:

at DB: Billy Thompson, Louis Wright, , Tyrone Braxton, Dennis Smith and perhaps Steve Foley belong;

at LB: Tom Jackson, Bob Swenson, Jim Ryan, and perhaps Chip Myrtle, Joe Rizzo, Rick Dennison and John Mobley belong;

at DL: Lyle Alzado, Rubin Carter, Dave Costa, Paul Smith, Pete Duranko, Rulon Jones, Alfred Williams, Keith Traylor, Trevor Price, and perhaps Greg Kragen belong;

at T.E./S.E.: Haven Moses, Steve Watson, Ed McCaffrey, Riley Odoms, and perhaps Clarence Kay, Orson Mobley, Jack Dolbin, Vance Johnson, and Mark Jackson belong here somewhere;

overlooked RB’s and QB’s: Fran Lynch, Otis Armstrong, Gerald Whilhite and Sammy Winder, Charlie Johnson and Craig Morton;

at the much neglected category of OL: Tom Glassic, Bobby Maples, Mike Current, Tom Lyons, Claudie Minor, Paul Howard, Bill Bryan, Dave Studdard, Keith Bishop, Mark Schlereth, Dan Neil, and Matt Lepsis;

and finally at ST: Jim Turner, Billy Van Huesen, Rick Upchurch, Luke Prestridge, Rich Karlis, Tom Rouen, and Darien Gordon. (You might also add Billy Thomson and Floyd Little in this category).

Well there’s my list to add to yours. I know I left off a few. Many of these probably go to the list of very good players. Still, there are a lot of forgotten Broncos on this list. I felt they needed to be mentioned.

but you’ve got the remember that the Broncos are getting to be close to 50 years old. There are a lot of great players who have played here. h.o.f.’ers? No, not most of them. But I think this all started off with Ted’s h.o.f. and H.O.V.G. lists. I think a lot of these guys should be on that second list. A couple belong on the first list. I’m guessing Ted’s a little younger than I am and may not have heard many of these names before. Besides, it’s always fun to talk about great moments in Broncos’ history and all of these guys make that list.

I know we’ve done this before but we’ve had a lot of discussion since then. Maybe we ought to rank them.

It’s Ted’s post, and Ted put his names on the list. I knew the conversation could get emotional (as I wrote in my first comment), but let’s keep the list and the post itself in perspective.

Everyone is going to have differing opinions. Some people may have names listed as hof that others wouldn’t, some may have HOVG listed that others wouldn’t, and some lists may altogether include or exclude names that others wouldn’t.

In my opinion Floyd would be near the top of any list to be in the hof when discussing former Broncos. But I’m not going to discourage a fellow member who makes his own list in good faith. Let’s lighten up a little and answer Ted’s question with whom we would put on what list (perhaps the top five I mentioned). Then let’s be cool when discussing each other’s ideas. Ted writes a lot of great material and is a true fan, and his personal opinion on who does or doesn’t make a list of all time greats shouldn’t bother anyone.

Peace.

“Player who best exemplifies what it means to be a Bronco” Here goes.

1. 3: Randy Gradishar. The heart and soul of the Orange Crush.

1. 4: Terrell Davis. Only because his career was shorter than Gradishar’s.

and at #5: ...

...here comes my surprise pick…

Billy Thompson. With the possible exception of Champ Bailey. I think he may have been the best, most complete DB who ever played for the Broncos and he did it for years and years. He was fast, he was smart, always in position, he could make up for the mistakes of others, he didn’t knock people out of their cleats but he seldom missed a tackle, and he was a great special teams player.

I know.

But in my defense I’ll just say there are at least five others I want on this list

First, I’m not including Lynch, since I think he gets in from his TB days.

1. Floyd Little tops the list. He deserves the nod, and has been excluded for far too long. The rest, in no order:

2. Gradishar
3. T. Davis
4. L. Taylor
5. A few players tie here. I would have to think long and hard who would be my fifth pick.

OK guys. I appreciate the spirited responses. Again, to be clear, my lack of inclusion of people who I never saw play is a function of my own criteria. If I never saw them play, I can’t evaluate them fairly. People whose opinions I respect seem to believe Floyd Little belongs in the Hall of Fame. Honestly, this comes as a major surprise to me, as I am new to the site over the last 2 months or so.

To clarify, somebody not being on my list doesn’t mean I don’t think they’re worthy. Somebody being on my list means I do think they’re worthy. The guys I list for the Hall of Very Good, I consider to be borderline. I am not a Broncos historian, I’m just a guy who has watched as many games as I could manage since January of 1987. My list favors the modern-day guys, because those are the guys I’ve seen play over the years. I know something about football, and its nuances, and I feel qualified to evaluate people whom I’ve seen play.

Now, the question of Rod Smith. I have seen him play a great deal, and do feel qualified to evaluate his career. I’ve never felt like Rod was one of the greatest players in the league at his position, at any time during his career. To me, that’s the criteria for being in the Hall of Fame. He was very good, but let’s be honest, in the best days of the Broncos’ offense during his career, he was the 3rd banana. Defenses were more worried about Terrell Davis and Shannon Sharpe than they were about Rod Smith. Like Art Monk, I feel Rod’s career stats are slightly more impressive than his game was, aided by longevity, durability, and consistency, none of which is analogous to greatness.

This is just my take, and I came to it by arguing with Stillers fans about why Jerome Bettis doesn’t deserve to go to the Hall of Fame. He was never one of the great backs in the league at any time in his career, and his stats are better than he ever was. He had only 1 of the top 50 rushing seasons in NFL history (1665 yards in 1997) and contrary to the wide-spread belief that we was a tough goal-line runner, he had only 94 rushing TDs in 13 seasons. Very good, not great, just a great nickname and media presence. He’ll get in the Hall of Fame and not deserve it.

I objectively consider Rod (who almost certainly won’t get in) to have had a similar career to Bettis, and I can’t have it both ways. He’s a great Bronco, to be sure, but that doesn’t mean he’s a Hall of Famer. We want our deserving guys there, but I don’t think we want it overdone like many teams have been.

I have to say it took b*s for Ted to put this list out in the first place. No matter who was on/off he was going to get killed by someone. That was the reason I wanted him to make it a FanPost. While I completely agree about Little, not to mention Gradishar, and the travesty that is their exclusion, I want to remind everyone to keep it nice. I don’t want people to squelch their opinions because they know they are going to get blasted. Once that happens we are nothing more than the type of message board I created MHR to replace.

Please, let’s not fall into that trap…..This is a heated topic with alot of personal feelings, let’s just remember we are all on the same side and any Broncos player that gets inducted will be a proud day for us all!

mecklenburg and rod smith to the hall, elam and td bumped down. yes, longevity matters, and let’ s not forget the o-line and receivers formed one of the best blocking units of all time. the best denver rb ever,(sorry, i’m too young to have seen floyd little) ring of fame worthy, but there are too many more deserving players on those lists, and you can’t put them all in. he wouldn’t make my top ten all-time broncos. i am sure he would have if…
mccafferey should have been considered for vg status, at least, but his career also was cut a little short by injury. back in the day, it was easy ed being considered the better receiver, at least his equal, but longevity has moved rod smith way past him, hasn’t it? eddy didn’t even make the vg list.

I’m not technically savy but that sounds like a good topic for a poll. We could start with the names above plus a few we’ve probably missed.

Just thinking.

Al Wilson to the HOF or HOVG?