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Around SBN: The Amateur Mathematics Of Linsanity

The Kicking Battle: Hartley vs Prater

Although I originally posted this in HT's positional upgrade article, I felt it was worth improving and moving so people can get a better feel for the past performance of the kickers dueling to be the new Denver Broncos' kicker in '08.

My personal feeling is that with the loss of Jason Elam, the FG kicking unit of Special Teams took a definite step back (at least in terms of its ability to inspire confidence in the field players---see Champ's comments); however, I do believe that no matter who wins the upcoming roster slot, Prater or Hartley, we’re better off in the field position game, and one roster spot better (to use for O-Line perhaps?) by not having to carry the dreaded kicking specialist. So, in a way, it’s a net gain. Though I must admit that in doing this write-up I was swayed somewhat by Guru’s excellent archived piece on Elam. That said, I still think a clutch kicker is extremely difficult to replace, and few things can kill a team’s confidence quite like a terrible kicking blunder, much less consistently terrible kicking blunders.

Star-divide

Now, as far as the battle for the roster spot in concerned, I don’t have much confidence in Prater, to be honest.  I just don't get the feeling that he has quite the same level of confidence that Hartley exudes---the kind of confidence that can inspire teammates into feeling that their hard work will be rewarded when they put the kicker in a position to succeed.  

It's worth noting here that if Prater does snag the job, I hope he does well.  I will support whoever wins the battle so long as he is a Denver Bronco.  However, my personal hope at this stage is that Hartley steps up and wins it. That said, I was a bit confused by statement regarding Hartley's college performance in HT's aforementioned thread:

We have Prater and Garrett Hartley deuling it out for our FG kicker and netiher did well in college.

 

Hartley didn’t do well in college? Shoot, BroncoBilly, I trust you because I don’t watch too much college FB these days, but Hartley’s senior season stats seem to be decent:

FG: 13/15 (0/0 from 1-19, 6/6 from 20-29, 4/6 from 30-39, 2/2 from 40-49, and 1/1 from 50+); Pct: .867; Long: 53. I believe one of those misses was blocked. PATs: 71/74; Pct. .959.

Granted, it’s college and he didn’t kick many FGs, but his PCT was better than every Bronco PCT season between ‘89 & ‘96 with Treadwell and Elam (see Guru’s above linked article). All in all, it seems a decent stat line for a team that hardly kicked FGs and kicked a ton of PATs. Yet, we all know how important mental toughness is to the kicking position. So, how did Hartley do in big games when the season was on the line?

Clutch indicators:

1/1 FG (Long 26) and 5/5 PATs in the Big 12 Championship game against Mizzou, and 3/3 FG (Long 42) and 1/1 PAT in the Fiesta Bowl against WVU.

Full Stats for Collegiate Career (from ESPN.com):

 

Kicking Stats
YEAR TEAM G FGM FGA PCT 1-19 20-29 30-39 40-49 50+ LNG XPM XPA PTS
2004 OKLA 0 1 1 100.0 0-0 1-1 0-0 0-0 0-0 29 12 12 15
2005 OKLA 0 14 22 63.6 0-0 5-5 4-7 3-7 2-3 52 37 38 79
2006 OKLA 0 19 20 95.0 0-0 8-8 7-7 4-5 0-0 46 49 50 106
2007 OKLA 0 13 15 86.7 0-0 6-6 4-6 2-2 1-1 53 71 74 110

 

So, how do Prater’s college numbers compare directly to Hartley's?

The above image comes from a Prater story on the DPO by Jim Armstrong.  As you can see the PCT is dismal when compared to Treadwell's and Elam's numbers.  Also, it is worth noting that Prater played in zero bowl games, and as such, his clutch rating is not nearly as quantifiable as Hartley's.

Now, I do agree with what has been said previously on the site regarding some college players transitioning very well into the NFL after having subpar holders/offensive lines/field qualities/conditions/et cetera.  (Adam Vinatieri was a named example.)  Yet, I think that a big game mentality is still measurable through performance in big games, and Hartley has that. In the big games, he was perfect, and that has to count for something, particularly with Mike Shanahan.

EDGE:

Although it is Matt Prater's job to lose at this point, Garrett Hartley may already have a leg up on the incumbent due to his big game performances.

Poll
Who would you rather see win the '08 kicking job on a permanent basis?
Garrett Hartley
30 votes
Matt Prater
8 votes
Can I vote for Jason Elam just for old times' sake?
17 votes

55 votes | Poll has closed

This is a Fan-Created Comment on MileHighReport.com. The opinion here is not necessarily shared by the editorial staff of MHR

Comment 8 comments  |  2 recs  | 

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Thanks for the info.

I pasted my reply below from the position comparsion article since it fit here too. I am glad you trust me, by the way!!! In all fairness, I don’t watch a lot of college FB either, but I do seek out the highlights and Mayock reports after the season is over for “players of interest”. In summary, I was comparing Hartley to Elam during the ‘07 season and to another rookie kicker that I wanted in a Broncos uniform.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
My major concern with Hartley was that he missed 3 XPs his SR year. Elam missed 3 XPs his entire career (601-604). Now, I don’t know the specifics of those missed XPs, but to me it shows a lack of concentration.

I was also looking at Hartley’s numbers in comparison to the kicker I wanted us to draft – Brandon Coutu. Coutu’s career long was 58 yards and he was a perfect 114 / 114 on XPs in his career. He was 29 / 31 on FGs inside 40 yards in his career (.936), which is comparable to Elam’s career numbers for the Broncos for inside 40 yards (.941).

Overall, I really was trying to compare our ‘07 roster to ‘08 as the title suggested, but I could have worded it better than to say Hartley didn’t do well in college, so I stand corrected.

"On the Plains of Hesitation bleach the bones of countless millions, who, at the Dawn of Victory, sat down to wait, and waiting--died!" - George W. Cecil

by Bronco Billy on May 26, 2008 10:24 PM MDT reply actions  

I havent seen much of Hartley

I DO know however that prater can boom the ball into the end zone as well as kick field goals. I don’t want the oppositions starting at the 40 because the dude is an accurate place kicker. Great Write up however

Until Terrell Davis makes it into the Hall of Fame, I refuse to acknowledge the existence of such a place other than the Ring of Fame at Mile High!

Davis to the Hall!

by Jon Tollerud on May 26, 2008 11:03 PM MDT reply actions  

Ya had to put Elam up there didn't ya? We all know who I voted for. :)

If God is not a Bronco fan, then WHY are sunsets Blue and Orange? - Jon Tollerud 5/22/08
MHR's Bronco History

by Tim Lynch on May 26, 2008 11:37 PM MDT reply actions  

Jim Turner?

What lies behind us and what lies before us are small matters compared to what lies within us. - Raplh Waldo Emerson

by firstfan on May 26, 2008 11:59 PM MDT up reply actions  

I wrote a bit about the competition a little while back

Prater had some much bigger misses under pressure IN COLLEGE. Plus, Hartley is a UFA, so it doesn’t hurt to try out the competition.

Also, I looked at two college interviews done by Hartley and Prater and seemed to pin all the confidence on Hartley. Plus, Prater has already played a bit in the NFL but hasn’t done well. Although I may be putting a whole lot of stock on a UFA, I will agree that it is Prater’s job to lose at this point. Garrett Hartley had 60 kickoffs find the end zone and converted on 32-of-35 total field goals in his junior and senior years combined. We’ll see how this plays out, but like Zappa said…you had to put Jason up there didn’t you? :)

Good post.

The post with a short blurb on the kicking situation (scroll down).

by phantom818 on May 27, 2008 10:15 AM MDT reply actions  

Either way

I have a little more confidence in the kicking game. Whomever wins this competition will be a strong kicker and I really like saving that roster spot for a lineman. Thanks for the post.

What lies behind us and what lies before us are small matters compared to what lies within us. - Raplh Waldo Emerson

by firstfan on May 27, 2008 11:07 AM MDT reply actions  

As I have said elsewhere

It is easier to teach someone to have a more consistent routine and to become more accurate than it is to teach someone to kick the ball 10-15 yards farther. There will be some bumps on the road, but I like that both guys can boom it.

Semi related, and the source is Bill Williamson, but apparently DL Josh Mallard has been doing some work as a long snapper. Who knows if there is any serious competition or if Mallard is giving it a try to give him some versatility (and/or because Denver is looking for a backup. I think Kuper and Myers were the backups last year). It would be nice to save a roster spot on an exclusive long snapper, but I tend to doubt Leach’s job is in jeopardy unless Mallard turns out to be just as good a snapper while maintaining his worth as a DT.

by MattR on May 28, 2008 2:41 AM MDT up reply actions  

I voted for Hartley

Nice write up. I was actually wondering when someone would get around to taking note of what this kid did in college.

As soon as the Broncos picked up Hartley in the scramble after the draft, I checked him out. Somehow, I missed the fact that he missed 3 PAT’s, yet that does not concern me as much when looking at his Field Goals. He certainly has a lot of confidence in his leg. He can kick the long ball and says he feels comfortable kicking from the 55 to 60 yard range. I like that.

He was a nominee for the Lou Groza Award in 2006 and was twice selected to the All Big Twelve team. Not a bad pickup for a UFA. If the Broncos don’t sign him, chances are that he’ll end up somewhere else, in my opinion.

by Davus.X on May 28, 2008 9:38 AM MDT reply actions  

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