Home Field Advantage
For over twenty years the Denver Broncos enjoyed a significant advantage playing at home. This was due to 1) Altitude and 2) Noise. Much has been written about why this has been deteriorating since the move to the new stadium. I offer the following thoughts. Warning: This article is full of opinions. They are my opinions. And you know what opinions are like.
As schemes and tactics evolve on both sides of the ball we see many more substitutions. Specialty players are used in specific situations. This means players are coming off the field and getting oxygen. A Belicheck approach here might be to switch opposing teams’ oxygen bottles with laughing gas, but we probably shouldn’t do that. I will leave the Xs and Os up to ht, but it appears to this casual observer that by running more no huddle we can force defenses to keep the same players on the field longer and therefore wear them out faster. It goes without saying that we should be the best conditioned team in the NFL. Yes, even our “Big Uglies” should be in top shape.
As for the noise factor, a few days ago Guru correctly stated
“The “footprint” of the new stadium is twice the size of the old. So the same amount of people have to make double to noise to make it seem so loud. The fans were right on top of the field in “old Mile High”, everything is so spread out in the new stadium it simply is that much harder to get that loud…” TSG 5/5/08
What can we do about it? We are not likely to make twice as much noise but we can increase the noise level from what it currently is. Noise is not entirely unlike vision. When you go into a dark room it takes a few seconds for your eyes to adjust. The same thing happens with our ears to a much smaller extent. We get used to a certain ambient level of noise. This is why a large bang in a quiet room startles but the same noise at a rock concert is overpowered. As fans we need to be knowledgeable about when to be loud and when to be quiet, and then execute!
It has been stated that there is a difference in the kind of fan we have today. I think this is true. The fans at Mile High tended to be more football savy. They were beer and hot dog guys and gals. One writer characterized todays Bronco fan as more wine and cheese. I subit the wine and cheese crowd can be educated. We need to recreate the culture of the twelfth man. We expect a great deal from our team and I feel they have the right to expect the best from us as fans.
We need to get Klis and Kisla and Paige and the other Denver writers to start educating the fans about behavioral expectations. I will never forget the time at Mile High when I actually HEARD John Elway’s famous hard count. The fans of that era were smart, savy, and understood their impact as the twelfth man. When Cutler steps up under center you should be able to hear a mouse fart at the twenty yard line. At the snap of the ball, mayham. Conversely, when Phyllis and his merry men line up the center should not even be able to hear the cadence. And keep it up the entire game. We need to be in game shape too!!
We need to start getting in fan shape now with twelfth man education. I urge all true Bronco fans to attend training camp. The pre season games should be for getting the wrinkles out of our vocal support. A year or two ago I actually saw some fans trying to start the wave when WE had the ball!! Elimninate those errors in pre season and be ready for Sandy Eggo on Sept. 14th.
Go Broncos!!!
This is a Fan-Created Comment on MileHighReport.com. The opinion here is not necessarily shared by the editorial staff of MHR
7 recs |
95 comments
Comments
I would love to comment.
But First has covered all of the bases. Stadium design, the new fan culture, etc.
The only remote thing I can think to add is that hardcore fans are priced out from the games, and I don’t have a solution. The ownership has a reasonable expectation to make a profit, and a comfortable stadium that can draw a high priced clientelle makes a lot of sense. It’s rotten for the educated fans that have to cheer from afar, but that’s the way it is. At least the altitude doesn’t cost the team anything.
"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe
by Steve Nichols on May 6, 2008 3:00 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
the break-up of the south standers also hurt the noise too.
fader nation is a conquered nation
by mdierk on May 6, 2008 3:21 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes it did.
Zappa talked about that in one of his history posts. One comment mentioned that new “neighborhoods” would develop over time and I think that may be true, but those “neighborhoods” sure grew up faster. I will talk about my years in the South Stands at another time.
Nothing is at last sacred but the integrity of our own mind. - Emerson
by firstfan on May 6, 2008 3:53 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
sadly the "neighborhoods" are....
not really happening yet.
fader nation is a conquered nation
by mdierk on May 6, 2008 4:38 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Mile High
That altitude is one thing they can never take away. I invite comment on running more no huddle offense.
Nothing is at last sacred but the integrity of our own mind. - Emerson
by firstfan on May 6, 2008 3:42 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
I would love to see a lot of no huddle.
I think there are a few factors that run against it for now. We haven’t had a long term QB (like Elway) to run a no huddle. With Cutler at the helm, if he stays in place longer than Plummer, we may see more no huddles in a few years. Cutler has proved he can run a two minute drill, but that’s a different animal. Still, I think Cutler will continue to improve, and may eventualy get the go ahead to call his own plays or at least call advanced audibles. Then he’ll be ready to run no huddles when the coach sends in the signal.
WIth the altitude, no huddle would be a killer at the end of the first half and starting late in the third quarter. It will be a sweet thing.
"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe
by Steve Nichols on May 6, 2008 5:39 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Great observations ht
I didn’t realy think of th QB experience factor. But when it arrives… watch out Phyllis.
Nothing is at last sacred but the integrity of our own mind. - Emerson
by firstfan on May 6, 2008 5:42 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
They need to add that Mile High factor to the madden game
but I totally hear ya and agree that Cutler’s not mature enough just yet. Get him some maturity and longevity under his belt and start working on building that Mile High advantage!
by phantom818 on May 6, 2008 5:52 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Madden is too easy...
I wish it was more realistic about how good players get over time. Sorry about having a roster full of 99 level players is absurd…
by Tim Lynch on May 6, 2008 9:08 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
ha ha
it takes me two years to get bmarsh and cutler to level 99 and thats with simming half the season
Davis to the Hall!
by Jon Tollerud on May 6, 2008 10:08 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
it's up to the gamer to make it as realistic as possible :-D
by phantom818 on May 7, 2008 9:52 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Believe me when I say I have tried...
I unload all my stars and signed crappy players…then the crappy players are level 99 in a matter of two seasons. Such a joke.
by Tim Lynch on May 8, 2008 7:31 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Try this...
Try getting a gig as an assist. coach for a youth league (like YMCA, PAL, or Pop Warner). Start as an assist, since little kids really learn much differently and the game has a much different focus (in terms of tactics, techniques, and fun). Even with my years in coaching, I would NEVER accept a head position until I learned how the experts do things at a different level.
Now you can not only build young athletes to “99” ratings, you can make a wonderful impact on the lives of children. Plus your wife will stop complaining about all of that computer time! (Of course, use the reduced computer time for MHR, not games). : )
Trust me, you’ll like the real-life coaching even more than Madden.
"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe
by Steve Nichols on May 7, 2008 10:12 AM MDT reply actions 0 recs
(Meant for Zappa, Jon T, and Phantom
(Wrong reply button).
: )
"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe
by Steve Nichols on May 7, 2008 10:14 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
I dont play Madden much at all...like I said
it’s not very challenging. ;)
by Tim Lynch on May 8, 2008 7:32 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
But coaching little kids is!
: )
“Try it, try it, you will see!” Dr. Suess – Green Eggs and Ham
"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe
by Steve Nichols on May 8, 2008 7:47 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Firstfan made me wonder...
...where did I learn how to be a better home team fan? The answer, of course, is being in the stands with friends and family. There always seemed to be a lot of savy old veterans sprinkled in every section. When young fans made mistakes, and I made my fair share, the older fans corrected them. Because many of those around you were friends and family, it was all pretty good natured and the embarrassment didn’t last beyond the next play.
That method still works at your local high school and college games but what about places like Invesco? I’m sure a lot of you are like me; I can’t afford season tickets. So where do you learn to keep quiet while your QB is changing the play at the line or laying on his hard count? Where does the average Joe learn Peyton Manning is going to have more trouble running his offense in a stadium where even his guards can’t hear him?
Firstfan has it right that the major area sports writers/broadcasters should do the heaviy lifting but this looks like a pretty good place too.
And as far as altitude goes, I love the “no huddle” idea. Don’t those Florida and Texas teams take advantage of their heat and humidity early in the season? Well the good news here is that Denver is high altitude all year round. The Rockies, Nuggets and Avalanche take advantage of it.
In fact, anything that can get into the heads of the visiting team sounds like a good idea to me. Western State College in Gunnison, at about 7700 feet, has a little sign that reminds players from opposing teams that they are playing in the highest stadium in the U.S.; or is it North America? Maybe the Broncos should place a poster in the opposing locker room advising about the warning signs of altitude sickness, or better yet, public notices posted in several key areas that say studies have shown that the altitude in Denver has little or no effect on the well conditioned athlete. And then, when they begin to feel the effects, they may begin to wonder. Just kidding, lol.
If this be Hell, let us make the most of it!
by Trinidad Jack on May 7, 2008 1:27 PM MDT reply actions 1 recs
Actually Jack,
They have the signs just outside the visitor locker room at the stadium…I did the tour in March.
fader nation is a conquered nation
by mdierk on May 7, 2008 1:36 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yep.
And I’ve had the priviledge of seeing both the signs at the old Mile High as well as the ones at Gunnison.
"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe
by Steve Nichols on May 7, 2008 7:59 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, tie me down and hause whip me.
Learn something every day. Obviously, I’ve got to go on one of these tours. Thanks for the catch guys.
If this be Hell, let us make the most of it!
by Trinidad Jack on May 8, 2008 9:48 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Chardonnay and Brie
Training that wine and cheese luxury box crowd might be tough, but we gotta try.
I am going to Training Camp. Any chance you can make it up?
Nothing is at last sacred but the integrity of our own mind. - Emerson
by firstfan on May 7, 2008 10:25 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
You still tryin' to make it to Oakland for opening day?
I wish I could go to training camp…
by Tim Lynch on May 8, 2008 7:35 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'd really like to...
...but I’ve got to be honest. Some of you already know I’ve got eleven kids. Those little so-and-so’s are always insisting on selfish things like eating every day and stuff like that. They don’t understand when Daddy takes their food money and goes off to do things like seeing the Broncos in training camp. Talk about your screwed up priorities. I blame my wife for that.
(Do I have to add lol, or ; ) ? Maybe the way things are today I do.)
If this be Hell, let us make the most of it!
by Trinidad Jack on May 8, 2008 9:56 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
11 kids?
It must have taken a while for you and the missus to figure out what was causin’ all them little ones.
"I like my cigar too, but I take it out every once in a while." - Groucho Marx
by firstfan on May 8, 2008 12:17 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's the problem.
We figured it out…
...and we like it! lol.
Anyway, I’m a teacher right now (at a college, so you know my students are all adults). When my students find out they’re amazed. I tell ‘em, “Yeah. While your parents were out working on their careers my wife and I were…
...nevermind.”
If this be Hell, let us make the most of it!
by Trinidad Jack on May 8, 2008 12:55 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Articulate and Opinionated..What a Great Post!
firstfan
I have been a Denver fan for almost fifty years (yes-the fiftieth anni. is getting close) but I have never been to Denver. Even back in the 60’s and early 70’s ( when we were rotten) and without Floyd Little we were rotten, we would still occasionally whallop teams far better than us at home. For years I felt it was the altitude-but I think you are right.
I have never seen either stadium( or heard the noise) but, now that you mention it, I don’t recall a watched ‘Mile High’ game that they didn’t mention the noise.
Your call for action is great and I’m trying to figure out how we, that are hundreds of miles away , can help.
I’m thinking that someone should invent a cell-phone amplifier. You in Denver get the amplifiers. We that have access to wood patios, put our cell phones on the wood patios, and jump up and down and scream at just the right time. What do you think?
Maybe there's someone reading MHR that can figure it out.
and once again,
Really great post!
by Mike Clark on May 7, 2008 8:29 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
Thank you for the kind words.
What part of the country are you in? Some time you and Trinidad Jack and I should pound a few beers and talk about the old Bronco days. My email is in my fan page.
Nothing is at last sacred but the integrity of our own mind. - Emerson
by firstfan on May 7, 2008 10:22 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
A good following in AK.
Ace writer Styg50 also makes his home in the great northwestern territory.
"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe
by Steve Nichols on May 7, 2008 10:32 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
It just dawned on me!!
Did you hear? They voted us in to the United States!! Yep. We use US currency (sound as the dollar), speak English, drive on the right side of the road and everything!
Human character does evermore publish itself.
by firstfan on May 9, 2008 6:38 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
That voted us into the states
seems kind of fishy to me. I for one would like to see Alaskan Independence, but that is just the crazy dreamer part of me.
But it could happen.
Mountains, forest, sea: these render man fierce, but yet do not destroy the man.
by Jeremy Bolander on May 9, 2008 9:56 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
You are not alone my friend!!
Human character does evermore publish itself.
by firstfan on May 10, 2008 3:42 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
I hope that didn't come across as not realizing that...
....AK had been brought into the Union. I am well aware that Sgt. Preston and his dog King were doing their work on the other side of the border.
: )
"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe
by Steve Nichols on May 9, 2008 10:24 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sounds good.
Get together, do a few 12 ounce curls, talk about the old Broncos and what went wrong with Rock.
If this be Hell, let us make the most of it!
by Trinidad Jack on May 8, 2008 10:01 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yep!
Arctic Bronco and Danver are here in Las Anchorage (I think) and chavez recently escaped to WA. Styg is in South East, but we don’t hold it against him.
Nothing is at last sacred but the integrity of our own mind. - Emerson
by firstfan on May 7, 2008 11:18 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
And I maybe out in Juneau or Keni this fall
Davis to the Hall!
by Jon Tollerud on May 7, 2008 11:21 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
fishing?
There can be some awsome trout fishing in Kenai in the fall.
Nothing is at last sacred but the integrity of our own mind. - Emerson
by firstfan on May 7, 2008 11:31 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
excellent and whats a hunting tag licence and all that cost?
Davis to the Hall!
by Jon Tollerud on May 7, 2008 11:52 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Pretty spendy
I think an out of state hunting license is about $75 but an out of state moose tag is approximately $400 and you need both. An in state is much less and I don’t give a damn who squeezes the trigger, as long as you are willing to help pack out the meat. Those damn antlers boil into a mighty thin soup. If you are serious, send me an email.
Nothing is at last sacred but the integrity of our own mind. - Emerson
by firstfan on May 8, 2008 12:07 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
I might just be dependsing on what happens with my current job in June
Davis to the Hall!
by Jon Tollerud on May 8, 2008 6:45 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
cover the stadium
I recently took a tour of the seahawks stadium and the tour guide mentioned that the sound is held in by the roof structure and redirected back to the field. This stadium is undoubtedly the loudest outdoor stadium in the NFL because of this. If any of you have seen this stadium on T.V. you would notice that the roof covers a majority of the stands but not the field. I wouldn’t think that it would be too costly to engineer some type of retractible tarp style roof for Invesco. I’m not talking about a huge, permanant thing that has to hold snow just something that could be pulled out on game day specifically for noise. Hell I wouldn’t care if it was a giant blue tarp as long as it helped with the noise.
Come to think of it that just might scare off some of the wine and cheese crowd at the same time.
by danver on May 8, 2008 7:32 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
I think there is a material that is sturdy enough to
bounce sound back, but cheap enough to be “cost effective”. Tarp is too cheap…sound can pass through that more easily. Pat Bowlen is not as interested in homefield advantage as he is about the bottom line right now. Maybe by 2010 when we win another Super Bowl, Bowlen will hear our demands. ;)
by Tim Lynch on May 8, 2008 7:39 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
DIA
This is a great idea! They could use that stuff they made DIA out of. And they wouldn’ty have to cover the entire field, just the stands!
Human character does evermore publish itself.
by firstfan on May 8, 2008 7:42 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
We should start a petition or something...
Bowlen can contract hire an engineer who specializes in acoustics and have them design a cost effective plan to magnify the sound the fans make back onto the playing field.
by Tim Lynch on May 8, 2008 8:21 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
World Hunger
We can solve anything on this site.
Human character does evermore publish itself.
by firstfan on May 8, 2008 8:31 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
It gets even better
after everyone’s had a few drinks. :o)
~Uffdah
by Disco_Stu on May 8, 2008 8:37 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ha! This isn't the United Way now...let the professionals take care of
the truly important issues. ;)
by Tim Lynch on May 8, 2008 10:31 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
What could possibly be more important than the Broncos?
It is why we boo the no shows. If you have a ticket you are not excused even for funerals, UNLESS you are the one in the casket.
Human character does evermore publish itself.
by firstfan on May 9, 2008 12:55 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
lol!!!
I love Bronco fans! I remember one MNF game the pundit mentioned there was a sell out crowd at Mile High with 76 no shows…out of 76,000+. lmao
by Tim Lynch on May 9, 2008 1:31 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm sure they were booed...
...rightfully so.
If this be Hell, let us make the most of it!
by Trinidad Jack on May 9, 2008 2:11 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
And even then...
...he was excused only if he made sure his brother-in-law got the tickets after it was certain he wasn’t just in a very deep coma.
If this be Hell, let us make the most of it!
by Trinidad Jack on May 9, 2008 2:11 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Styg!!
He can design the new roof. If he can come up with the “noise signs” he sure ought to be able to come up with a fabric roof.
Human character does evermore publish itself.
by firstfan on May 9, 2008 5:16 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not familiar with the construction of DIA
but if I had to guess I would say that carbon fiber, or kevlar fabrics would be the way to go.
And the stuff NASA makes spacesuits out of is REALLY tough stuff. Fiber layers laid at 90 degrees to eachother and reinforcing polymers laid at +/-45 degrees, with amazing shear properties. I believe they stress tested it at 100,000lbs of force.
Mountains, forest, sea: these render man fierce, but yet do not destroy the man.
by Jeremy Bolander on May 9, 2008 10:02 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Fun Fact!
The “golf balls” at Buckley AFB are made from the same material as DIA! (I worked up at Buckley for awhile.)
~Uffdah
by Disco_Stu on May 8, 2008 8:37 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
I flew into Buckley...
...when I came home on leave from Ft. Bragg. Took space available hops. That was decades ago of course.
"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe
by Steve Nichols on May 8, 2008 9:08 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
I was thinking of
designing a “Noise Sign”.
It would be a large foldable sign with whatever witty saying struck the owner at the time. The sign would be for the fans who sit near the rails, and everyone who can reach the sign can slam their hands on it when they want to make noise.
The design of the sign would be intended to amplify the sound the pounding hand makes. The stuff I have come up with so far is a little unwieldy, but loud. The sign would have to be brought in sections by about four or five fans, and then linked together, in order to be the size of typical banners brought to games.
But all in all their are lots of ingenious ways to make noise. I think firstfan hits the nail on the head when he talks about making the difference in noise levels as radical as possible.
Which is purely a matter of connecting and educating. I think a little “Homefan’s Handbook” would be worth its weight in gold.
And I think I know just the place where one could get started up….
Mountains, forest, sea: these render man fierce, but yet do not destroy the man.
by Jeremy Bolander on May 8, 2008 9:17 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
I implied...
but did not clearly state that the sign would hang on the rails. Anything else would be uncivilized.
And while I’m dreaming, the Broncos should print Homefan Rules right on the tickets, or in the gameday program or something…
Mountains, forest, sea: these render man fierce, but yet do not destroy the man.
by Jeremy Bolander on May 8, 2008 9:20 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Here in Sacramento, us Kings fans used to be allowed
to bring cow bells to games. Arco Arena was the loudest arena in the NBA. Until the NBA banned them from all basketball games…I stopped being a big basketball fan when they did that. I figured if they didn’t want fan interaction then I wouldn’t give them any.
by Tim Lynch on May 8, 2008 10:33 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
"Needs more cowbell!"
A wonderful phrase that is gaining cultic popularity because of a great “Saturday Night Live” skit involving Christopher Walken. Thought I would toss that out there.
"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe
by Steve Nichols on May 9, 2008 10:15 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
firstfan
I am going to add some tags to this piece. If you don’t want them let me know and I will remove them. It’ll just help connect this post to the outside world more. Hope you dont mind! ;)
by Tim Lynch on May 8, 2008 10:48 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
Great idea!
Thanks Zappa!
Human character does evermore publish itself.
by firstfan on May 9, 2008 12:56 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
IN-COM-PLETE
I have heard just about every opposing fan mention that they hate that chant. Just as the other team is “getting used to a certain ambient level of noise” in comes that chant from our fans. Let’s give credit where credit is due. If I were an opposing QB that would irritate the sh^* out of me (which means that we are doing something right).
Someone might have to break out the NFL rule book on what is legal and not legal to use for making noise. Zappa mentioned the NBA has rules on noise and I am pretty sure the NFL does too.
by danver on May 8, 2008 11:00 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
I have a copy of the NFL rulebook and there is nothing in it about
noise. I am sure there are items that “for security reasons” are not allowed in the stadium. After several incidents of fan abuse of players these new rules make sense. It’s always the one or two morons that ruin it for everyone else. But I am sure you can try to sneak in a cow bell…now if only 76,000+ did the same thing. lol
by Tim Lynch on May 9, 2008 8:07 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
There was a rule...
...and it was thrown out almost as soon as it was adopted. Teams were penalized for fans getting to loud, as measured on a meter that could be see at home. I’m getting ready to go to work so I don’t havetime this sec to look it up, but I recall the rule was in effect for maybe one year in the 80’s.
"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe
by Steve Nichols on May 9, 2008 10:18 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
My rulebook only has the current rules in force. :)
by Tim Lynch on May 9, 2008 10:52 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Right.
I believe the rule was only on the books for a year, and I believe it was in the 80s.
"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe
by Steve Nichols on May 9, 2008 10:26 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
i remember a saints game
where they penalized the crowd for the noise. Houston was just as bad too…..they mainly did it with domes.
fader nation is a conquered nation
by mdierk on May 9, 2008 11:03 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes
I think it was mostly domes and I haven’t seen a penalty for crowd noise in years. If the rule is still there the refs are not enforcing it.
Human character does evermore publish itself.
by firstfan on May 9, 2008 12:51 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
It was done away with.
"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe
by Steve Nichols on May 9, 2008 10:25 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
I remember a time when I hadn't been to game and...
...didn’t live near any Denver fans (being far from my beloved Colorado). I was trying to figure out the chant.
I at times thought it was “Cant’ throw deep” or “can’t com-pete”. It was only a few years ago that I ran into someone who knew. That’s kind of embarassing to admit!
"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe
by Steve Nichols on May 9, 2008 10:21 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Phyllis
“IN-COM-PLETE” really gets under old Phyllis’s skin. I think it is unique to Denver. I was at an away game in San Diego with a group of Bronco fans and we started it there and it seemed to gain some traction. A good third of the people at the game were Bronco fans. It is one more thing that pulls everyone together. This year my grand kids will learn it.
Human character does evermore publish itself.
by firstfan on May 9, 2008 12:32 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
I didn't mean..
we were the first ones to ever use it.
we started it there
We just started using the chant that day
I don’t know when it started. It was a long time ago.
Human character does evermore publish itself.
by firstfan on May 9, 2008 12:36 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
See, Charger fans are pathetic.
In 1998 at San Diego I was there and less than 1/3 of the sell-out crowd were there for the Chargers…probably the only time in history that Jack Murphy Stadium had a Sea of Orange packing the stadium.
People wonder why I have no respect for the Charger fan.
by Tim Lynch on May 9, 2008 1:33 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
one more note
I have been fortunate enough to make it to at least one Bronco game (home or away)every year now for 14 years and I have to say that there is a big difference in the crowd from the early 90’s to today (I can’t even imagine the late 70’s). I think that winning our two Superbowls seemed to have as much of an impact on our level of “excitement” (crowd noise) as anything. We were so pent up for so many years praying to God to give Elway and the fans just one Superbowl that when it finally happened there was this feeling of peace. Losing wasn’t such a bad thing anymore. Well now it has been almost a decade and that feeling of peace is fading. Thus crazy fans like us are starting to come up with ideas to tear down DIA’s tent and reassemble it over Invesco.
With a little more brainstorming I think we just might get that noise back!
by danver on May 8, 2008 11:17 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
Guru
I don’t know if you read all of these or not, but if you do, do you see what you have created? Think about it.
Human character does evermore publish itself.
by firstfan on May 9, 2008 12:24 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
I have to disagree about the 'wine and cheese crowd' generalities...
I think that the generalization that the fans have been priced out of games in incorrect, there is no “wine and cheese” crowd. I’ve watched a handful of games from the luxury boxes and because of the free flowing beer (you can just order a case at a time if you want), it’s actually just as rowdy in some of the boxes as it is in the stands. Look, maybe it’s harder than it used to be to get tickets because the Broncos are SO popular here, but you can get single game tickets and half price tickets when they go on sale really early in the season. It’s not anybody’s fault other than your own if you wanted to go to the game and can’t. The ticket prices are more expensive than they used to be, but so are homes, phones, gas, beef, and and tickets to anything worth going to. Inflation, not greed, is the issue with ticket prices.
I own season tickets now and when I was a kid, my family had them. It was priority number one after college to be able to afford season tickets. That’s my choice, and I am a loud obnoxious fan who sits 20 rows up from the 10 yard line. Every once in a while, I’ll get a dirty look, but only if I say something including an F*bomb (which happened frequently last year). All of the fans who sit in my vicinity are loud and passionate and most of them are regulars at every game, but typically, as the season drags and Denver falls out of contention, they stop coming or sell off their tickets.
The bottom line is that Denver’s never really done much, sans 2005, in the new digs, and until they can sustain some level of dominant football, the stadium won’t be known as loud. The noise problem, to me, is directly proportionate to the “winning” problem the Broncos have had over the past 7 years. I doubt Mile High was dubbed a “loud” place by national media until 1977 or even later. The Broncos fans were characterized by their noise from the late 70’s thru the late 90’s…but, we haven’t done anything since, or before then.
Of course, because the stadium is bigger, it may not sound as loud to the fans, but, to the players, there’s probably not a noteable difference in most of the newer stadiums outside of Seattle or a dome. In fact, I’ve been to a few games at Arrowhead. When the Indians were good in the late 90’s, that place was like Mile High – East. It’s a cool place, but I’ve also been recently, and it’s not even as loud as Invesco, now that they’re terrible.
We have to stop blaming inflation and architecture for the lack of boisterous noise at Invesco. It’s the eam’s fault. When Mile High was the loudest, it was late in the season or in the playoffs. Denver’s hosted TWO playoff games at Invesco and we were out of the Steelers game by halftime, so, really we’ve had just 6 quarters of intense, loud football in 7 years, and that’s the team’s fault. Denver hasn’t had a must win showdown with the Raiders, Chiefs, or Chargers late in the season since 1998. The stadium gets loud when the team’s good and situation’s intense, but those situations have been few and far between.
by super7 on May 9, 2008 3:38 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
I tend to disagree. From everything I have read and discussed with
fans from the late 60’s and early 70’s was that the fans were rowdy and loud even when we were losing year in and year out. If memory serves me correctly the Broncos have sold out every game since 1968 or so. I think perhaps it might be the footprint of the stadium, but also the lack of total dedication to the team that todays fans have.
You made the point yourself when you said that the regulars start selling off their own tickets when it becomes clear the Broncos will not be in contention towards the end of the season. In a way that proves the overall point about the “wine and cheese” crowd. Wine and Cheese doesn’t necessarily mean they are all latte drinking pussies, it just means that they can’t handle cheering for an average team. We have to be winning for them to be fanatical and loud. It wasn’t always the case.
I believe the stadium does get loud when we play well, but the stadium used to be loud no matter what.
by Tim Lynch on May 9, 2008 3:50 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Fans didn't have to sell their tickets off in the 80's and 90's, Zappa
by super7 on May 9, 2008 3:51 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
They didnt want too. We had losing seasons in there. 1991 I think we only won
5 games, but alas, we had John Elway and the playoffs didnt matter as much as watching his next great comeback. lol Fans didnt sell off their tickets in the 60’s and 70’s either though. That is a recent development.
by Tim Lynch on May 9, 2008 3:56 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
I have to disagree, the fans haven't changed as much as the team has
I’m with you on Elway, when we had him, you’d have to be crazy not to go just to see what he does, but Denver only had 2 seasons under .500 with elway and 3 seasons at 8-8 (one of which, we were still a playoff team). So, 6 seasons with no playoffs in 16 years. What I’m saying is that aside from 2005, the Broncos have not been consistent winners, unlike the mid 80’s thru late 90’s.
Denver’s 5-11 season was sandwiched between an 11-5 season and a 12-4 season. The other “rough spot” was in the early 1990’s when Denver eventually fired Reeves and subsequently, Phillips. That was, at that point in time, the worst the fans had been that I’d ever seen, and looking back on it, the team was in a bit of disarray.
I wan’t here in 1968 or 1975, so I don’t know what the fans were like, and I’m not attacking Broncos fans, I think we’re the most knowledgable fans out there, BUT we can’t balme the lack of “loudness” on the fans or the economics of the stadium. Most of the fans I sit with had season tickets back in the day, I’m just saying that they still pay for the tickets and they didn’t BECOME “wine and cheese” people.
Look, this is my opinion, just like this great post was firstfan’s opinion. I hope Invesco is loud every Sunday before the game, but until Denver’s playing with the bog boys of the AFC again, I don’t think it will be as loud as it was at Mile High.
I love this topic.
If fans want it louder, then hopefully the team will give them more to cheer for. I think we associate “noise” for the pandemonium of a crazy play or broken tackles or a big defensive stand or an interception and on 2 occasions, I’ve seen that at Invesco and it reminded me of Mile high.
1) Brandon Marshall’s breakout play vs. Seattle in 2006 to tie the game late in the 4th quarter.
2) Champ Bailey’s endzone to endzone interception vs. NE in the divisional playoff game in 2006. Really, the whole 4th quarter of that game,
I’ve been to games in St. Louis, KC, New England, and Tampa; and Invesco is STILL louder than all of them except for one game I went to at Arrowhead in 1998 (the Monday nighter when DT went nuts on Shannon Sharpe and Bubby had a HUGE game).
Invesco can be just as loud, we just haven’t seen the same kind of “Mile HIgh Magic” as we did in the late 70’s thru late 90’s.
by super7 on May 9, 2008 4:19 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Good Points
You have some good points super. One of the purposes of the post was to raise the awareness that we are not as effective as a twelfth man as we used to be. I’m sure that part of it is winning. Zappa is correct in that in the late 60’s and 70’s the place was just as loud even though we were not winning or had a player who could consistently bring us back like Elway could. We had nothing to compare it to! Now we do.
In general. (I know there are pockets of exception) I do not feel today’s fan is as passionate or as knowledgeable as the fan of the first thirty years of the franchize. I was dead serious about hearing Elway’s hard count. I don’t think you could do that today. Hell, the beer guy is shouting “Get your ice cold beer” as Cutler comes up under center.
I will close by restating what I said in the post.
We expect a great deal from our team and I feel they have the right to expect the best from us as fans…...When Cutler steps up under center you should be able to hear a mouse fart at the twenty yard line. At the snap of the ball, mayham. Conversely, when Phyllis and his merry men line up the center should not even be able to hear the cadence. And keep it up the entire game. We need to be in game shape too!!
Thanks for reading and commenting.
Human character does evermore publish itself.
by firstfan on May 9, 2008 5:42 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
I dont think we are disagreeing as much as we think we are.
I believe our fans are still better fans than most of the teams in the league and louder than most. By no stretch of the imagination am I saying Investco isn’t loud. I am saying that Investco is not as loud as it used to be. Comparing the loudness to other teams isn’t what I was talking about. I was comparing the loudness from this stadium to the former Mile High Stadium. It may not be the people who are not as loud, it may just be the footprint. I just feel that a huge section of our fan base isn’t as dedicated as it once was. I know were dedicated when they are winning, but how many “Charger” fans do we have that seem to disappear the second things get a little rough?
by Tim Lynch on May 9, 2008 5:51 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm with you on this one Zappa.
In my time in Colorado (and this includes pre-Elway) fans did not sell their tickets. People did not support a team based on how well they did. You can’t blame the team by saying it is their responsibility to fill seats. If I had the money, and if Denver was 0-15 (year after year), I would still go to see a Denver game. It had nothing to do with Elway, it had nothing to do with the team “earning” anyone’s attendence. It was a loyalty issue that people have gotten away from.
While I’m glad for Super7’s situation, I can tell you that even with a graduate degree and a good job I am unable to afford a game if I’m prioritizing for my family. It may be an individual issue, but that’s just my case. I went to an INDY/DEN game in INDY not too long ago, and it was a difficult decision (my wife pushed me to go, bless her heart).
"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe
by Steve Nichols on May 9, 2008 10:41 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
And loudness;
...we certainly CAN blame stadium design. As Guru has pointed out (and this was also an early criticism of the stadium), the stadium has doubled the imprint without increasing the fan amount by much at all. THe seats used to be right up near the field, and they aren’t close now. Fans at their loudest simply couldn’t match the decibles of the early stadium no matter how much they try.
I’m told by friends (and people who have posted at MHR) that people at today’s games are less knowledgeable and less fanatical than before. I can’t know this firsthand, but I tend to believe them.
"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe
by Steve Nichols on May 9, 2008 10:45 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
wow....
“Phyllis and his merry men”, “Missouri Indians”, “Kansas City Chefs”, “conquered fader nation”......all have been added to the MHR lexicon and may have to be copyright protected! LOL. I’ve created a monster!
fader nation is a conquered nation
by mdierk on May 9, 2008 6:48 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
personally i think we can throw the chefs out
i like the indian one much better
Davis to the Hall!
by Jon Tollerud on May 9, 2008 11:56 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
I know a little bit about the subject...
...and can tell you that “copyright” attaches as of publication. There are some “if’s”, “and’s”, and “but’s”, but I’m not going to bore you with those for now.
If this be Hell, let us make the most of it!
by Trinidad Jack on May 10, 2008 10:43 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yea...Kansas City is misleading...Missouri is more appropriate.
How about Missouri Squaws(Native American women) or Missouri Papooses(children)? Indians isn’t much of an insult since Indians were quit fearless and brave back in the day. Of course Squaws and Papooses are insults given to Native American women and children by white folk, but I doubt any feelings would be hurt since there aren’t any Native Americans on the chefs to insult. We’d be calling a bunch of non Native Americans Squaws. I see nothing wrong with that. ;)
by Tim Lynch on May 10, 2008 2:09 AM MDT reply actions 0 recs
Maybe I'm old school.
I have no problem with teams being named “Redskins” or “Braves” or things like that. They are meant reverently, extolling the virtues of “warriorhood” in their intent. The only people that seem to get ruffled are the same people that play the “political incorrect game” and try to make mountains out of mole hillls.
On the other hand, if one was going to come up with a derrogatory name (Let’s face it, if we were admiring the Chiefs we would use their regular name), and feels the need to innoculate the name from criticisms in advance, the idea might not be for the best. That’s just my opinion.
Another point to consider is that the insult isn’t just towards the group one is targetting (the Chiefs players), but by choosing a name one might implicate the people that the name refers to. Again, it’s my opinion, but I wouldn’t want to tie in Native American women and children (Or the women and children of any culture or place) with a put-down. I guess I’m saying that if we have to think about it, it’s probably not the way to go.
I also look at fans and the teams when using a friendly put-down. I don’t have any problem with the Chiefs or KC. Their team and fans seem to be pretty decent. The raiders have a reputation for being a basement team that has an excuse or a conspiracy for everytime that their team fails. The Chargers fans have always been decent, and the players were always admirable until the Phylis incident, so I get the put-downs there. I also get the NE Cheater’s tag.
"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe
by Steve Nichols on May 10, 2008 9:26 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
I am not fan of political correctness...
by Tim Lynch on May 10, 2008 9:41 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Neither am I.
The first college I attended during my undergrad years had the sports name “Indians”. There were always students (white) who wanted us to drop the name. But the local native American groups were not happy with the proposed name changes. They (the native American groups) were active in supporting the “Indian” name when it was first proposed, and they fought against the “political correct” kids who couldn’t come up with any spokesmen who were native American.
In short, the teams are named after an animal now, the local native American groups have been insulted, and some rich white kids pat themselves on the back because they think they speak for everyone else. No one cared what the “indians” themselves thought about the situation.
"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe
by Steve Nichols on May 10, 2008 10:01 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Back to the point
about the Mile High Crowd. Super mentioned that from his vantage point in the luxury box and 20th row that the crowd is just as loud as it always has been. I would agree to an extent. I sat in the first row in the north endzone of the vikings game last year and to my surprise (with the Broncos having nothing to play for) the crowd was loud and into the game. HOWEVER, who wouldn’t go crazy with great seats like this! I don’t think that the wine and cheese crowd is defined by the seating chart, it’s defined more by the average type of person attending the games today.
With season ticket priority numbers given, the true diehards like yourself will theoreticaly try to upgrade and get better tickets each year until you reach your financial threshhold. Mix this idea with the rising cost of tickets and the people dropping off are the ones up in the bleachers. Now you have an entire upper section of people that are new to the game and don’t know when or how to cheer. I could share a story from a chefs game a few years ago to emphasize this point but I think you get my point.
by danver on May 10, 2008 10:42 AM MDT reply actions 0 recs
That's an angle I hadn't considered.
Of course, another point might be that the fans least able to affect the noise level are the fans in the bleachers. The ones in the lower tiers have the nearest seats. Then again, I’m not an acoustics expert.
"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe
by Steve Nichols on May 11, 2008 7:07 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

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