Mile High Report: An SB Nation Community

Navigation: Jump to content areas:





A Far Cry From 2006?

The Broncos had just finished up a 13-3 playoff season third in the league in points allowed.  Denver fell to the eventual Super Bowl champion Steelers in the AFC Championship, but not before taking two interceptions off of Tom Brady in a 27-13 home victory the week before.  The Broncos had five Pro Bowlers that year, three on defense.  Jake Plummer passed for 3,366 total yards, 18 touchdowns, and a 90.2 quarterback rating.  Plummer’s offensive counterpart in the Pro Bowl was Rod Smith, with whom the QB had hooked up with for six touchdowns.  The Broncos couldn’t get any better, right?

Wrong.  A successful 2006 draft brought in Javon Walker via the trade and Denver decided to take a chance on the injury-ridden star in order to provide some help for Rod Smith.  Plummer and Javon immediately connected, and the former Packer finished with 1,084 yards receiving and eight touchdowns.  Not only did the draft bring veteran help, but it also began to usher in a new era of youth for the Broncos.  Talk about a draft current Broncos fans still go crazy about.  Shanahan and the Broncos made a bold move trading up four spots to acquire Jay Cutler, the quarterback of the future.  Little did the Denver Broncos know, that future would come very soon.

The Broncos hit on pretty much every pick that year, getting the back-up tight end they needed in Tony Scheffler.  Brandon Marshall, Elvis Dumervil, and Domenik Hixon came next in the fourth round and Chris Kuper followed in the fifth: quite a productive draft despite the lack of a third rounder.  By the way, Dumervil recorded 8.5 sacks his first season, Scheffler caught four touchdowns, and Marshall caught two of his own for 309 yards.  You get the picture.  Although the Broncos missed out on the playoffs in 2006 with a 9-7 record, they had to feel good about themselves.  Of course, that 2006 season saw a quarterback change that many fans questioned.  How could you oust a guy that had led the team to an AFC Championship the year before for this young gun?  It turns out Plummer didn’t like the move much either and soon left the Broncos, stubborn and frustrated, and soon retired thereafter.  That 2006 season certainly got the wheels in motion.

QUARTERBACK:

The twenty-three year old Vandy gunslinger brought a 7-4 team to a 9-7 record that season.  The man he replaced, Jake “The Snake” Plummer had led the team to a 13-3 record the year before.  In all fairness, Cutler has yet to truly develop, but I still might take Plummer going into the 06 season more than I’ll take Cutler right now.  Remember, Jay was the back up that year, a back up that could absolutely embarrass current benchwarmer Patrick Ramsey in a pick-up game. 

Jake had just come off a Pro Bowl season and now had a bunch of new toys and weapons at his disposal.  Sure he looked good going in, but coming out of the season was quite a problem for Plummer.  Cutler stepped in and did his best, and the Broncos world turned in 2006.  It was the start of what was and is to come in Denver.

Cutler has flirted with an 88 QB rating over the past two seasons, but hasn’t gotten his team over the hump and into the playoffs.  True, he hasn’t seen as much experience, but JC as the back up to a Pro Bowl quarterback, at least for that one year, intrigues me much more than this season.

Advantage: 2006 Denver Broncos

Jay Cutler was the future and proved a pretty darn good back up.  Plummer had just finished a triumphant season, and no one foresaw what was to come with the guy.  You can’t argue Pro Bowl numbers.  On a season-by-season basis, 06 wins the battle.

WIDE RECEIVERS:

Ah yes, 2006, back when Rod Smith still started and had made his third Pro Bowl the year before.  Unfortunately, Smith wouldn’t be making any Pro Bowls after 2005.  It would also be the last time the Missouri Southern product would ever start.  Newly added Javon Walker – “pre the whining” – quickly caught on and made a huge impression that season.  After the draft, fans were rightfully optimistic about Walker moving ahead.

Currently, Marshall (assuming he’s back and healthy, which shouldn’t be a problem) and Jackson match up fairly evenly with that pre-2006 tandem of receivers.  However, the one and two spots aren’t where this advantage is decided.  Which season did the Denver quarterback have more weapons to work with?  Well, Marshall is a constant from both years, who showed some promise as a rookie, but certainly wasn’t expected to start right away.  David Kircus’ role in 2006 was clearly defined.  Do the Broncos currently have a guy who fits that same role right now?  Well, Brandon Stokely is the slot receiver and clearly has more talent and experience than Kircus, so keep looking for that match.  Ah yes, the fourth and fifth receiving positions! 

The Broncos have a lot of depth at wide receiver, so much so, that that depth is going to have to compete to even receive a role.  Competition never hurts.  When a team has players like Keary Colbert and Samie Parker battling for those bottom spots, it’ll beat a young Marshall and David Kircus any day.  Besides, this edition of the team has a much better slot receiver. 

Chalk one up to the current acquisitions from the Denver front office, because much like Walker’s addition, Darrell Jackson should provide a new type of impact for the Broncos as a wide receiver.  The Walker move was good, but Denver’s made a lot more moves than that to sure up quality depth at receiver.  Also, don’t forget Eddie Royal, another rookie, like Marshall that season, who plans to play an even bigger impact in what the Broncos want to do this coming season.  Plus, if the receiver comparison doesn’t sell it for you, take a look at the tight ends.

The current crop of tight ends pushes this one over the top, if the receivers didn’t already.  Tony Scheffler began developing that relationship with Cutler in 2006, but he was still a rookie before the season.  Daniel Graham trumps the addition of Stephen Alexander before that season.  Graham’s a veteran blocker and the coaches love his experience.  It certainly helps out the running game.  Graham also had better receiving statistics last year than Alexander did in 2005.  Scheffler’s the constant, and he continues to improve, but Graham locks this battle up for the current squad.

Advantage: 2008 Broncos

RUNNING BACK:

No Mike Anderson, but lots of Bells in 2006.  Unfortunately, TATUM Bell never got back to the 921 yard, eight-touchdown form he showed while backing Mike Anderson the previous season.  Bell’s fumbilitis certainly seemed apparent after five ball drops in 2006.  The tandem, hot back rotation did yield an 1,000-yard rusher, but the back who rushed for 627 yards got the brunt of the touchdowns.  Mike Bell didn’t look too bad in a season of extensive work.  Kyle Johnson also looked good at fullback, catching a TD pass that season.

Now, the Broncos have more running backs than they know what to do with.  Most of the 1,000 yard seasons of the past may very well have been a product of that great Denver line.  In the 7-9 2007 season, a flip-flop of the previous year’s record, no back went 1,000 plus.  Did the run game look better coming into 2006 than it does now?

The Broncos were ninth in the league in rushing last season, but eighth after the 2006 campaign.  Even better was the Broncos’ place at second in the league after 2005, a statistic that Mike Anderson had a little bit to do with.  A one spot drop in rushing seems much better than a six spot drop during 2006.  Tatum Bell had performed well in 2005, but there was still some mystery as to whether the young back could take over the following season.  Currently, the Broncos have more backs than they know what to do with, but also have a veteran on board. 

Selvin Young and Andre Hall have seen experience, but Travis Henry gives Denver what they didn’t have in 2006.  New guys Ryan Torain and Peyton Hillis should come in and help this running game as soon as possible.  The lack of a clear-cut starter along with depth issues could present a problem for some, but the competition involved this off-season should ensure the best man gets the job: for the time being.

Advantage: 2008 Denver Broncos

OFFENSIVE LINE:

So how about that offensive line?  This line had single handedly helped lead the Broncos to their position at second in the league in the rushing department.  By the way, Denver was fourth in rushing after 2004, second after 2003, and even fifth after the 2002 season.  The list goes on and on.  The 2006 year featured a 1,240 yard, six TD season from the likes of Reuben Droughns, a guy currently behind a clutter of backs on the Giants depth chart.  At least he has a Super Bowl ring.

The Broncos still have some links to the lines of years past left on the roster, but the decision here is a no-brainer.  The Broncos have youth and promise in that youth, but that young talent simply doesn’t match-up with the “sure thing” year in and year out.  Ben Hamilton, Tom Nalen, Matt Lepsis, and Dan Neil (eventually Cooper Carlisle)…can ANYONE argue against that line?  Eric Pears was even a pleasant surprise during that 2006 season, coming in for Lepsis and starting ten games.  Sure the future is really bright, but heading in 06, the future was then.  That line’s past spoke for itself.  However, think about it, Lepsis’ injury in 2006, like at the quarterback position, brought tidings of a completely new era for the first time.

Advantage: 2006 Denver Broncos

DEFENSIVE LINE:

The Defensive Ends were sack machines in 2006, with Dumervil (8.5), Ekuban (7), Lang (6), and Engleberger (1) getting in on the action.  However, what about the end spot heading into the season?  That’s what the comparison here is all about.

Well, the coaches loved what they saw in Dumervil, but a lot of the fans didn’t know what the smallish defensive end would bring to the game for Denver.  Denver still had Trevor Pryce and Courtney Brown during that 13-3 playoff season.  However, Pryce left after 2005 and Brown, a key contributor in the Denver playoff push the previous year, tore his ACL in the preseason. Things did not look all that great, but with a promising rookie and lots of DE depth, they didn’t look all that bad either.

The Broncos still have Ekuban and Engleberger (although Ebenezer is coming of an injury), and Elvis Dumervil has become more of a known quantity and developed into the beast known as “Doom.”  Denver once again has depth at the end position, but this time it’s young depth, in the form of Jarvis Moss and Tim Crowder of the 2007 draft.  The Broncos amassed eight more sacks than their 2005 total last season, and the pass rush off the ends helped.

The real story in this D-Line comparison, however, is the middle of the line.  Denver fans know all about the Broncos’ ineptitude at stopping the run, as the Broncos ranked 30th in the league in rush defense last season, allowing 142.6 yards per game!  Interestingly enough, the Broncos actually ranked second in the league in rush defense after 2005.  Second in the league!  Denver allowed 85.2 yards per game, and Gerard Warren and Michael Myers (particularly Warren) played a big part in that.  It also helped their confidence to have some capable linebackers playing behind them. Denver fans had to feel good about the success there, even better than they currently feel after getting a solid 3-4 nose tackle named DeWayne Robertson.

In a division like the AFC West, stopping the run proves VERY important.  It certainly helped the Broncos get past formidable AFC West foes on their way to the AFC Championship Game.  As it turns out, in that 2006 season, the Broncos were just twelfth in the league in rush defense, still not too shabby.  So, the expectations that the rush defense would be there held up pretty well.  Think about it.  Wouldn’t you feel much better about a rush defense that performed well when called upon than a shaky situation involving a young DT, a new addition, and a player who isn’t considered an every down tackle by many?  True, the pass rush might not have been there in 2005.  You could certainly argue the point either way from the DE perspective, but stopping the run played a big part in helping the Broncos do what they did.

Advantage: 2006 Broncos

LINEBACKERS:

Gold, Williams, and Wilson: one of the quickest trios of linebackers in the league at the time.  The young D.J. Williams showed a lot of bounce and speed off the outside, much like he’s expected to do this coming season.  This was also an Ian Gold not too far from his prime, as opposed to an aging somewhat fragile Gold that Denver fans dealt with recently.  Finally, Al Wilson, a recipient of a Pro Bowl invitation in 2005, locked down the MLB spot with veteran leadership.  Wilson has five Pro Bowl invitations and one All-Pro position to his credit, and looked good coming off of a playoff season - so good, in fact, that he made the Pro Bowl again in 2006.

The leadership was there post 2005, unlike the current situation where a new player will play middle linebacker, and defensive leadership is somewhat hard to come by.  Boss Bailey and Niko Koutouvides should no doubt make a contribution to the Broncos defense.  This off-season brought Denver a new cast of characters at linebacker.  However, when announcers are singling out your team as a team with one of the best linebackers in all of football, you’re going to listen.  Denver misses Al Wilson, and the absolute speed of the linebackers in the past gets the call here.  The leadership factor and experience in a Bronco uniform seals the deal.

Advantage: 2006 Denver Broncos

CORNERBACK:

Champ Bailey has made the Pro Bowl every year as a Denver Bronco, and every year as an NFL player, save his rookie season.  However, Bailey’s Pro Bowl trip last year came more off of name recognition than due to the play on the field.  True, teams don’t throw at Champ as often, but he did get burned a few times in 2007 and only logged three interceptions.  Now, compare that to an eight interception 2005 season, in which two went back for TDs, capped off by an interception off of Tom Brady in the playoffs.

The Broncos loaded up on CBs in the 2005 draft, and those CBs looked good.  Domonique Foxworth intercepted two passes and recovered two fumbles in his rookie campaign.  Karl Paymah didn’t have to see the field his first season because of Fox and Cox providing enough depth.  Currently, the Broncos have two solid CBs, much like the team did before 2006, except one was only a second year player at the time.  The knock on Dre Bly involves his problems tackling now and then.  However, Darrent Williams (God bless him and his family) could tackle and could also serve needs in the return game.

So what did happen in 2006? 

Well, the Broncos passing defense was poor in 2005, but slowly improved to 21st ranked the next season.  Hold on a second, didn’t the Broncos do much better against the pass a year ago?  While I do like a younger Bailey, Denver did rank seventh in the NFL against the pass last season.  Right now, the Broncos are coming off a much better season statistically against the pass.  The stats usually don’t lie.  Could the defensive passing successes be a tribute to how bad Denver’s run defense was last season?  Possibly. 

However, the cornerbacks on the roster now are pretty much the same as they were in 2006 (with the unfortunate loss of Williams as the only difference), and it’s hard to pass up more experienced guys for that same group with all the flash and youth a few years ago.  The promise was there after 2005, but Denver fans have found out a little bit more in terms of their secondary, particularly at the cornerback position.  Domonique Foxworth was signed and he’ll be ready to handle the heat at the third cornerback position, should he play either there or in dime situations.

Advantage: 2008 Denver Broncos

SAFETIES:

John Lynch is the constant at the safety position and the fact that he’s aged a few years doesn’t matter. He has also made the Pro Bowl every year he has been a Bronco.  Lynch still has the instincts of a top safety, even if the youth isn’t there anymore, and instincts and vision can do a lot for you as a safety. Plus, the nine time Pro Bowler has motivation this off-season to prove people wrong.

This segment of the debate then, dials in on the strong safety position.  Nick Ferguson had five interceptions and recovered a fumble in a respectable 2005 season in which he started all sixteen games.  Now, I don’t feel one extreme or the other towards Ferguson and believe he was dependable enough, as Broncos fans knew what they were getting with him in most cases.  Also, stats aren’t going to play that big a part here, because Marlon McCree has seen mainly back-up time in San Diego.  Broncos’ fans don’t know who will start next season, but bringing McCree into town in the first place indicated that the Broncos had some needs.  Did Denver fill those needs?  I’m not so sure just yet.  I’d have to say I probably would’ve felt more comfortable going into 2006, when the safety position wasn’t as much of an issue or question mark as it is now.

Advantage: 2006 Broncos

So, based on my selections and breakdown above, the final advantages shake out as follows:

OFFENSIVE ADVANTAGE: EVEN

Don’t worry; I’m not about to call anything even here.  While I like the known success behind center in Jake Plummer, Jay Cutler has seen some experience, and even if he hasn’t been as good recently, he’s got a bunch more weapons to help him out.  True, the offensive line was better in 2005-2006, but I have the feeling all these receivers will add a little more emphasis to the passing game in Denver.  The Broncos were eleventh in the league in total offense last year, but were fifth after 2005. 

However, as the new pieces to the puzzle were added after the 05 championship run, you could sense that something was going to happen.  Cutler and Plummer together weren’t really going to work out…were they?  Should we really put our faith in these two young Bells at running back?  Javon played really well last season, but who have we got out there to help at wide receiver?  Those are all questions the Denver fan had to ask himself or herself following that successful season, questions that don’t apply much now.  Is it optimism or loyalty that makes me want to award the offensive advantage to this current roster going into the season?

AFTER FURTHER REVIEW: 2008 Denver Broncos

* Note: The Broncos did drop to 21st in the NFL in total offense during the 2006 season, but the debate here is who to give the advantage to PRE 2006 and PRE 2008.

DEFENSIVE ADVANTAGE: 2006 Broncos

The pre-2006 Broncos get the call here three to one.  Fans had to be feeling a lot better about the defense then than they are now.  Even though there have been some really key additions this off-season, returning starters are always good to have, and successful returning starters at that.  I’m not saying that the current crop of defensive players won’t be better, but the Broncos after that playoff run actually had a pretty strong defense.  Denver was fifteenth in total D that season, as opposed to 19th in the league just a year ago.

* Note: I thought it’d be interesting to note and focus on the complete reversal of the Denver defense from then to now.  The Broncos went from second-ranked to thirtieth-ranked in rush defense, but also went from twenty ninth to seventh in passing defense.

THE FINAL CALL: 2006 Denver Broncos

If you add up all the individual advantages, you’ll see that I have the 2006 Broncos taking the cake, and that’s pretty much how I see it.  Any “genius” could have said that.  Denver was coming off of a huge playoff run, had made some great additions though the draft, and made just enough in free agency.  The current Broncos roster does have an advantage over that squad in certain areas, and even has some of the members of the pre-2006 team.  However, the leadership that team brought and its experience is hard to argue.  There are too many questions surrounding this current team.  Besides, Needless to say, optimism was pretty high then.

That 2006 season was only two years ago, but even so, things looked a tiny bit different than they do now.  Okay, well the actual amount of difference is certainly apparent.  Denver was coming off success one season, but starting the “rebuilding” process heading into the other.  The Broncos successfully capped off a mini-era post Elway and pre Cutler with a playoff run and successful performance in a competitive division.

Take yourself back in time and don’t focus on what Denver actually did in 2006, but what your impressions were after that 13-3 year in 2005, before the 06 season.  It’s funny how the first impressions of this team that finished 7-9 in a poor AFC West conference stack up against a team that finished on top of a powerful conference a few years ago (the Chiefs didn’t even make the playoffs at 10-6 and the Chargers went 9-7 that year). Just as the team slid downhill a bit after an AFC Championship run, maybe it’ll rise up after a disappointing 7-9 finish.  After breaking both teams down, one realizes that the current roster is not all that far off from the one a few years ago, despite the new names.  Then again, maybe I’m just optimistic.

 

2 recs | Comment 24 comments | Add your comment

Read Related

Story-email Email | Print |

Comments

Display:

I have to disagree about several core arguments.

Plummer couldn’t handle the pressure of having a better QB backing him up. Which is why he had to be replaced midway through the 2006 season. Plummer was just plain awful down the stretch. The team carried him to that 7-4 record.

I would not take 2005 Plummer or 2006 Plummer over 2006, 2007, or 2008 Cutler. Plummer was an average QB and that is a fact. Cutler was an average QB as a rookie, so I say “let’s play the rook!” Now Cutler is above average and getting close to “elite status” each game he plays.

I’ll agree that the defense in 2006 was much more polished than our current group, but I think the potential of the guys we have on defense today has a much higher ceiling than the 2006 squad. It’s all a matter of time now before the 2008 Broncos overtake every single category you have marked for the 2006 Broncos. It may even happen by the end of this season.

As for the 2006 Broncos as a whole, they were an overachieving, well coached bunch of guys. The 2008 group is young and highly talented and once they start gelling will put the 2005-6 group to shame. I have to say we are much better off now and the wins will start coming soon…possibly even next season! Patience my young grasshoppa!

by Zappa on May 8, 2008 12:35 PM MDT reply reply   0 recs

Great in-depth post by the way! lol

I definately agree about the quality of our LB core in 2005, as well as our DL. Although I think our current DL will surpass the 2005 group by the start of next season.

by Zappa on May 8, 2008 12:36 PM MDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

Thanks Zappa

As always I appreciate the loyalty to the Broncos and to our current boy Jay Cutler :)

Instead of comparing the two seasons I tried to compare the general feelings and impressions going in. I figured I’d get some differences of opinion on some of the categories, particularly at quarterback, and that’s perfectly fine. I love Jay Cutler just like everyone else. Personally, on a season-by-season basis, I remember that playoff run getting me excited and feeling that we could roll a bit with Plummer after 2005. Unfortunately for Plummer, as it turned out, Denver drafted its quarterback of the future that draft, and everyone knew there were some bad things to come down the road. The optimism I had going into that particular season had to have been high because of what Denver did the previous year. I personally felt great, until Plummer folded under the pressure of a capable, young rookie back-up, and as you said, the team carried him to that record. In 2005 he made the Pro Bowl and helped lead that team to where it was, getting Rod Smith in the Pro Bowl for it as well. However, it didn’t turn out as good as it looked going in. You have a great point with Cutler, so I guess the QB position was just my personal feeling before that season. It was a tough call to make.

These teams are actually pretty comparable, despite one coming off a playoff performance and the other…not. As I said, I hope Denver goes from 7-9 to the playoffs instead of from the playoffs to not in the playoffs…It’d be a cool reversal and an interesting comparison to post 2005 into 2006. I’m still optimistic now, and something Denver does have that’s an added plus is youth, so now the future even looks much better. The changes started, the era ended, and now us Denver fans are getting ready for that success that is to come.

by phantom818 on May 8, 2008 1:06 PM MDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

I remember when we traded for Jake "The Snake" how excited I was

that we picked him up. I do think he was a HUGE upgrade to what we had before…lol But I remember being just as excited about drafting Cutler, but I was a Plummer supporter all the way up until he started playing like a bafoon at around week 7 or 8, I think. That’s when I jumped ship. I figured we could get the same kind of effort and play out of the rookie QB that we were getting from Plummer. In hindesight, Shanny waited about 1-2 weeks too long to make the change…but oh well. I think we would have finished at 10-6 at the worst if Shanny had started Cutler when we were 7-2 rather than 7-4.

After re-reading a few things…I think we are more in agreement than in disagreement. lol :)

by Zappa on May 8, 2008 1:53 PM MDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

I, too

was a Plummer fan…and I still respect the man! At the start of 2006, I assumed that Jay Cutler was the QB of the future, while Plummer would easily continue starting for the next few years. But by the time Plummer was benched for Cutler…I had to agree with the decision. Plummer had looked HORRIBLE; when he let go of a pass, people I watched the game with would actually gasp in terror!

Obviously, the debate raged on about whether or not Shanahan should have benched Plummer (after all, the team was heading towards a playoff spot with him!) I liked Mark Schlereth’s take on it: Shanahan was trying to win the Super Bowl, and Jay Cutler was his best chance at that time. It wasn’t a good chance…but there was NO chance with the way Plummer had been playing.

~Uffdah

by Disco_Stu on May 8, 2008 2:34 PM MDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

I remember when Cutler got shaken up late in the season and came out.

The crowd went wild when Plummer went in and he promptly threw a long ball right into the waiting arms of a defensive back. I think at that point, Broncoland knew it was time to say goodbye. Cutler was never booed after that. ;)

by Zappa on May 8, 2008 2:43 PM MDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

he was a free agent

fader nation is a conquered nation

by mdierk on May 8, 2008 2:45 PM MDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

I think we're better off at QB

at the beginning of this season than I thought we were before the 2006 season. Before his meltdown Jake appeared to be a serviceable QB with a tendency to bonehead mistakes that had been minimized by good coaching and a run-first offense. But Cutler’s second year was almost as good as Plummer’s best, and he was already better in the clutch. There’s more room for optimism at the QB position now, especially with Cutler’s diabetes being treated, than there was before the 2006 season. By the way, Jake was playing like a buffoon from the very beginning of that season. It was incredible defensive play that was keeping us in games despite an uncharacteristically low-scoring offense. I don’t think Shanahan making the switch was the best move from a win-now perspective. Jay played well for a rookie but made some rookie mistakes that cost us dearly. I think Shanny was unconsciously sacrificing a one and done present for a better chance at a deep playoff run in 2007. How was he to know the defense would implode? As for Plummer, he was trying so hard to avoid mistakes that he strangled the offense. That only confirmed Shanny’s feeling that he couldn’t play well enough under pressure to get to and win the Superbowl.

"In the empty spaces - lacunae, vacuums, pauses, voids, black holes - new things begin. We are born anew from the unexplored space, the badlands, the outlaw territory." - Sam Keen

by spock on May 11, 2008 12:00 AM MDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

Never was a Plummer fan

Some people say defense wins championships. You hear it all the time, actually. It’s really a bunch of nonsense, if you look at history. The real truth is that great Quarterbacks win championships far more often than great defenses do. At any moment as a franchise, you have to ask yourself if you have a QB you think can win a Super Bowl for you. It’s a trap to stick with OK guys who can get you to the playoffs but are never going to be the reason you win a championship. That was the Brian Griese and Jake Plummer era in Denver.

Coaching and supporting casts held equal, Jake Plummer was never more than a league-average player at the QB position, and it would have been an aberration for him to win a Super Bowl, albeit one that had a decent chance of happening for a one-year window in 2005. He was better than maybe 4 guys who have won the Super Bowl (off the top of my head, Trent Dilfer, Jeff Hostetler, Jim McMahon, and Doug Williams.) Three had all-time great defenses behind them, and Williams played the game of his life in that regrettable Super Bowl at the Murph. Don’t give me Brad Johnson for Tampa, either, because in his heyday, he was a much more effective all-around QB than Jake ever was.

Jay Cutler has the ability to be a great QB and to win championships as one. Nobody is ever going to talk about him being a game manager type, and if you remember, that was the glowing talk about “No Mistake Jake” in 2005. He’s managing the game so well! That’s a euphemism for “he’s avoiding his disastrous bad player moments more frequently than ever.” I’ll take “Big Play Jay” every day of the week. He has all the tools to win championships with a slightly above average defense, and to be the driving force behind contending for one as soon as this season. Such is the effect of a great QB, and really, Jay is tracking at a Peyton Manning level statistically over his first 21 starts in the NFL. There is actually no other decent comparison, because Jay has had such an abnormally high completion percentage for a young player, almost from the start

I’ll take this team over 2006, and never think twice about it. Such is the value I place on potentially great QB play, and the confidence that we’re about to really start seeing it.

"I wouldn't ever set out to hurt anyone deliberately unless it was, you know, important --like a league game or something." DICK BUTKUS

by TedBartlett905 on May 8, 2008 3:41 PM MDT reply reply   0 recs

Add Mark Rypien and Brad Johnson to that list...

we didn’t have those defenses though. Jake was slightly above average, but he would never have won a Super Bowl with him under center. We will with Cutler though!

by Zappa on May 8, 2008 4:35 PM MDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

You're right

Merely competent QBs have won a handful of Superbowls with overwhelming defenses, but Denver under Shanahan was never likely to do that. Year in and year out the few teams with elite QBs are the ones with a legitimate shot at the big prize. Under great coaching Plummer reached the dizzying heights of being a competent game manager who mostly managed to avoid disastrous bonehead plays. Entering only his third season, Jay is already so much more. The Broncos struck it rich in their remarkable 2006 draft, and by far the biggest prize was a QB capable of winning the Superbowl.

"In the empty spaces - lacunae, vacuums, pauses, voids, black holes - new things begin. We are born anew from the unexplored space, the badlands, the outlaw territory." - Sam Keen

by spock on May 11, 2008 12:20 AM MDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

i agree ted

although i think plummer was a very good qb(better than just plain “good” griese at the time), cutler is already a great qb. yes, now. if we had jake behind that decimated o-line last season, we had no chance. jay showed remarkable instincts, accuracy, and quick-thinking that jake just never possesed with us. i will take jay year 2(full year 1), over jake any year you like. he has already arrived, ahead of schedule, it is the supporting cast that is catching up now. we are going to seriously throw the ball around this year, and have more balance, and bigger runs, because of it. plummer played his guts out for us, and i really admire all that he tried to do, but cutler is just a superior player. he will get us there in the near future, where as jake never was going to. hence, the qb switch

by davecheffy on May 8, 2008 4:10 PM MDT reply reply   0 recs

I'll take Mark Rypien

Mark Rypien, I missed. He had a great all-around Redskins team that year. I still would take Brad Johnson in his prime over Jake though.

"I wouldn't ever set out to hurt anyone deliberately unless it was, you know, important --like a league game or something." DICK BUTKUS

by TedBartlett905 on May 8, 2008 6:15 PM MDT reply reply   0 recs

Summary

We might be able to sum up the 2006 v 2008 question by saying that 2006 was a good run by a team on the decline led by a slightly better than average QB. 2008 is characterized by a team on the steady incline with much promise led by an excellent QB.

Human character does evermore publish itself.

by firstfan on May 8, 2008 7:33 PM MDT reply reply   0 recs

Which is why it's sweet that

the 05-06 team went from really good to average and now this team can go from average to great :)

by phantom818 on May 8, 2008 9:29 PM MDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

Gotta love the young guys we’ve got, I’m totally stoked for this season and I don’t think I will be disappointed if we don’t win the division. The young guys we’ve got and all the new approach to building the team are going to pay off sooner rather than later. We are a team on the rise with Cutler and Co. Can’t wait to watch the team grow, I’m way more excited for this year than I was the 06 season.

by Broncofan on May 8, 2008 9:42 PM MDT reply reply   0 recs

I believe

Shanny has done 7-9 to 11-5 before.

And that, if I am not mistaken, is a playoff berth in difference.

Nice effort trying to tackle this Phantom. I have to admit that I put it off till last because I was a little intimidated, but that it went down pretty smooth. Good work.

(As a sidenote, the first thing I thought of when I read the title was creeeping through the lush jungle of some far removed tropical isle…. I love me some FPS!

Mountains, forest, sea: these render man fierce, but yet do not destroy the man.

by styg50 on May 9, 2008 12:13 PM MDT reply reply   0 recs

Lots of information presented nicely

But I will take Cutler’s worst over Plummer’s best. Cutler isn’t the reason for the team’s losses the last two years, the defense was. I don’t totally discredit Plummer (the man actually won a playoff game with the Cardinals), but the defense when he was in Denver was much better than what we’ve seen lately.

phantom818 my man, I’ll probably have to read this again in a couple of days to fully digest it. That must have taken a week to write. Appreciated.

by HBBeough on May 9, 2008 3:51 PM MDT reply reply   0 recs

Seriously Guys...

Jake Plummer (2003-2005): 769/1279 (60.1%) for 9637 yards, 60 TD and 34 INT in 43 G.

Those were the Snake’s stats in his first three years with the Broncos. I believe that’s an 88.2 QB rating in the NFL, which is identical to Cutler’s career number to date. Obviously Jay will be the better QB and the wheels really came off of Jake in 2006 (he really couldn’t handle the pressure of the future as his back-up) but that shouldn’t take away from his performance prior to that season. In fact, 2006 was a wasted year because our DEFENSE fell apart, which is why we couldn’t win even after Cutler took the starting job. When he took us to the AFC Championship Game, even a sterling performance by our QB could not have overcome the trainwreck that was our defense against Pittsburgh that day. Honestly, the Jake bashing nearly drove me insane and I’d love it if we moved past it now. He did a fine job for us most of the time (his numbers were every bit as good as McNabb’s and Delhomme’s, two very well regarded QB over that same period) and it’s not like he crippled our franchise.

Please check out my blog at http://thefulldeck.blogspot.com/ , now redesigned and recommited!

by ejruiz on May 9, 2008 4:58 PM MDT reply reply   0 recs

I have a copy of Jake's first game against the raiders.

He was Hell on Wheels and tore them up. We were all so optomistic and rightfully so. But another thing that was quite clear on that tape was that the Broncos D, led by Al Wilson and all those linebackers, made the raiders O look slow and pathetic.

If this be Hell, let us make the most of it!

by Trinidad Jack on May 12, 2008 1:01 PM MDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

Besides.................

In 06 we pretty much knew what we had, this year we have some young guys who really have a chance to surprise some people. Cutler is going to do nothing but get better, I have to think the running game will be better with the changes in th O-line as well as having healthy backs. One thing I was thinking about and this is just a thought, but if Robertson and Thomas can make a big impact on the interior D-line, how much more effective will Doom, Moss and Crowder be? What about the return game? With Royal and possibly Williams added to that mix, what kind of excitement are we in store for there? Then you add in K2, Boss, the new safeties as well as Foxy going back to corner and there could be awesome things going on there. There is extreme potential this year, I’m more excited for the season to start this year than I have been since the Super Bowl years. Good or bad, this season is going to be fun to watch. I think playoffs for sure. Who knows how far we can go, just depends on how well the new guys mesh and the young guys develope. But optimism reigns supreme in my house. LOL

by Broncofan on May 10, 2008 9:45 AM MDT reply reply   0 recs

Good question in there

Broncofan writes:

...if Robertson and Thomas can make a big impact on the interior D-line, how much more effective will Doom, Moss and Crowder be?

By occupying 3 to 4 OLs, DRob and Thomas would draw pass blockers that otherwise might go against the DEs. Not only do the DEs now face a TE or 1 OT (on either side), but if the push in the middle is significant enough, the backs that might be pass blocking have to determine which threat is more urgent.

The ripple effect affects everyone else on the defense, making the job of the LBs and DBs much easier.

BTW, I don’t see Foxy doing as much at CB. I started as a Foxy guy, but I think Paymah surpassed him at nickle last year. At least the fact that Foxy doesn’t have to mess with playing safety should help his development.

"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe

by hoosierteacher on May 10, 2008 10:11 AM MDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

True dat HT.

I just remember the potential I saw in Foxy before he had to try and learn safety too. I was impressed with Paymah in the nickle last year as well. I think we are in pretty good shape at DB.

by Broncofan on May 10, 2008 10:43 PM MDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

Not only do I think it'll help his development

with Foxy concentrating on cornerback I’m not so sure Paymah will beat him out for nickle this year. I agree about D-Rob and Thomas. Thomas especially is lightning quick and might give us that inside push that will keep QBs from stepping up to avoid the outside rush. It’ll be interesting if he plays next to Doom.

"In the empty spaces - lacunae, vacuums, pauses, voids, black holes - new things begin. We are born anew from the unexplored space, the badlands, the outlaw territory." - Sam Keen

by spock on May 11, 2008 12:46 AM MDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs


User Tools

MileHighReport(MHR) is the ultimate independent resource for the Denver Broncos on the web. Along with MHR Radio, the official podcast of MHR, we look to provide hardcore Denver Broncos fans positive, independent insight about the Broncos, 24/7/365!
Ad-medium-smq

FanPosts

Community blog posts and discussion.

Recommended FanPosts

Img_1677_edited_small
The Mayonnaise Jar and Two Beers.
Avatar_5120_small
Offensive Minutiae
Img_1677_edited_small
Home Field Advantage
Mhr_small
Running Backs - Help solve the mystery
John-elway-photograph-_small
Is Darrell Jackson better than Javon Walker?

Recent FanPosts

P5096454_small
That little red star on the schedule.
Mhrscouting_small
All MHR Scouts
Small
MHR Scouting - The SEC
Small
Al Davis Likes Shiny Things
Terrelldavis_small
Case Against Thomas Dropped
Ncsu_logo_4_small
MHR Scouting - ACC Primer
Mhrscouting_small
MHR Scouting - PAC 10 History
Mhrscouting_small
MHR Scouting Services- 2 Conferences Left!
Mhrscouting_small
MHR Scouting- PAC 10 Rivalries

Post New FanPost All FanPosts Carrot-mini


Ad-banner-faketeams

General Manager/Head Coach

Milehighreport_small TheSportsGuru

Asst. Head Coach

Mhr_small hoosierteacher

Summer_small styg50

Mhrbroncoshistorylogo_small Zappa

Position Coach

Meckenburgden_small mdierk

ad

Site Meter