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The Broncos Most Exploitable Weakness

Whatifsports is doing the simulation season projections for Fox Sports. Since many athletes aren’t Republicans, Fox is unable to do the projections themselves. Whatifsports has some interesting things to say about the Broncos:

"Most Exploitable Weakness: Lack of a star - Simulations like these take human bias out of the argument, but what is going on here can be explained in a very human way. With the possible exception of Champ Bailey, there are no stars on this team. There is not really anything to get people excited. In the sim, that translates into the fact that no player puts the team over the top. Yes, it is balanced and lacks an obvious weakness, but Denver is balanced in a very average way across the board."

I'm not sure that lacking an obvious weakness is a weakness, but not to quibbIe about that. I guess they didn’t get the memo that Denver has Jay Cutler? That perhaps DJ Williams is a Pro Bowler waiting to happen, and the wait may be over with the move back to his preferred Will. Champ, sure – but how about Doom? Marshall isn’t a star? Thankfully, Marshall doesn’t buy that argument at all. Come to think of it, neither does SY.

I've never seen an offseason that had people more excited than this one.

When you say that a sim takes the  ‘human bias’ out of the argument, don't you forget that sims can only put out what you put in? What about player development? Motivation? Getting healthy? Chemistry? Sorry. We don’t have algorithms for those. Which is why, year in and year out, some teams rise and some fall – all without consulting the sims.

Who of the Broncos will be your favourite star over the next three years?

Read the full article here

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Odd Statement
Simulations like these take human bias out of the argument, but what is going on here can be explained in a very human way.

If the sim does ignore human bias, I don’t see how you can then say that the results of the sim are based upon said human bias. Perhaps the author was attempting to say that the Broncos’ results (or lack of them, in this case) is due to a strictly ordinary lineup…then tried to get too cute with the above-quoted statement.

Regardless, I have to agree with you broncobear: this is a team that is oozing potential. There are few writers out there that are beginning to understand the potential of Marshall…but not enough. I would argue that, if you looked at any position on the Denver roster right now, you would find either a star, or a young player with the potential to explode in the next couple of years.

~Uffdah

by Disco_Stu on Jun 17, 2008 3:07 PM MDT   0 recs

My opinion on potential Pro Bowlers

Champ
Lynch (but based more on name recognition)
Cutler
Doom
DJ Williams
Nalen (name recognition)

"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe

by hoosierteacher on Jun 17, 2008 4:10 PM MDT   0 recs

Brandon Marshall

He is my favorite star. He is my favorite receiver in the whole league. Maybe he isn’t as dangerous as Randy Moss or Chad Johnson (not saying he isn’t), but every time he touches the ball, he does everything in his power to do something with it. Even when he loses yards it’s exciting. He is a complete beast too, so much fun watching him shed tackle after tackle and keep going. He even makes the highlight reel blocking, lol. Bailey and Cutler are my other two favorite Broncos.

by unkown on Jun 17, 2008 5:50 PM MDT   0 recs

Marshall indeed

You gotta love
a) his blocking
b) his giddy grin when he lights someone up

But b) is definitely the human element, and lost in translation in the simulation.

by jonahsilas on Jun 17, 2008 7:38 PM MDT to parent up   0 recs

Its ok

They may not have stars right now, but come Jan, they stars will be JC, Marshall, Young, plus Clady will be crushing DE’s. The defense will have Champ, DJ, K2,Boss, plus hopefull Marcus Thomas and Elvis will be opening eyes.

by broncfanstuckinsd on Jun 17, 2008 6:44 PM MDT   0 recs

It doesn't matter...

Unless you magically “move” the city of Denver to the East Coast or L.A., they WILL NOT garner the attention they deserve. If I put my unbiased cap on, I’d say BMarsh is our hottest commodity. He is an electrifying player who still hasn’t peaked. Cutler will be great, but will never carry favor with the press because of his personality. I, as a fan, simply don’t care about that. His personality suits our overall goal of WINNING. Champ is popular, but I think he’s fallen prey to just being a recognizable name at a position average football fans simply don’t know enough about.

I wish Woody Paige was our coach!

by bcfunk on Jun 17, 2008 9:10 PM MDT   0 recs

Meh.

Dallas isn’t on the East Coast and neither is Green Bay. Recently Cinderellas like the Cardinals and Niners play on the Left Coast, but not in L.A. Everybody’s new favorite (the Minny Vikes) aren’t on either coast. That angle is overplayed, if you ask me.

Please check out my blog at http://thefulldeck.blogspot.com/ , now redesigned and recommited!

by ejruiz on Jun 17, 2008 10:03 PM MDT to parent up   0 recs

Interesting...
Denver is balanced in a very average way across the board.

I’ve wondered if our depth is solid because our back-ups are good players or if it only appears that way because our starters aren’t as good as they should be, so I find the statement quoted above the most interesting of all. I disagree that we’re balanced (our offense will be like the 2007 Browns and our D might not be that much better than theirs) or that we’re all that average overall. I like that we have no “stars”, that just means we’ve got a team!

Please check out my blog at http://thefulldeck.blogspot.com/ , now redesigned and recommited!

by ejruiz on Jun 17, 2008 10:06 PM MDT   0 recs

We have several emerging stars

on the offensive side alone. We have a top blocking TE, a top receiving TE, a 100-balls WR, and a frachise QB ready to shine. Given Shanahan’s magic touch and the material at hand, before the year is out chances are good we’ll have a recognized star at RB, too. If teams (and underinformed commentators) are looking for an exploitable weakness they’ll have to look elesewhere.

"In the empty spaces - lacunae, vacuums, pauses, voids, black holes - new things begin. We are born anew from the unexplored space, the badlands, the outlaw territory." - Sam Keen

by spock on Jun 18, 2008 12:48 AM MDT to parent up   0 recs

Devil's Advocate.

Top blocking TEs aren’t stars… they just aren’t. Scheffler will have to stay healthy enough to proove he’s a top player, though he obviously has the potential. Cutler and Marshall are right on the cusp (likely over the top already, but there’s some MSM lag involved) but they haven’t proven themselves as elite yet. Brandon did his business as a #2 WR (think of the doubts Reggie Wayne has lived through) and Jay still makes too many foolish mistakes.

You want some obvious exploitable weaknesses, look right down the middle of your defense. There isn’t a sure-thing performer at DT, MLB of S. Again, there’s a lot of potential there, but nothing proven yet.

Now, I don’t believe any of that, but those are the arguments against what is a growing confidence in the Broncos fanbase. Are they reasonable? Enough, I think…

Please check out my blog at http://thefulldeck.blogspot.com/ , now redesigned and recommited!

by ejruiz on Jun 18, 2008 2:04 PM MDT to parent up   0 recs

Good Posts!

I think that one thing we’re seeing is that ‘Star’ has a very different meaning when you are talking about a town like Denver. Our fans all around the country are ‘fanatical’. They care deeply about the team, and they want more than wins – they want to feel that the team has the knind of character that cares as much about winning as they do.

We’re not on the East Coast, and Cutler’s personality (good note, bcfunk!) may not be ‘star power’ but he’s an amazing young man whose sheer guts in overcoming a potentially fatal illness (still can’t belive that they didn’t run a danged blood test!) may be a key that propels him to national awareness as his win record matches his personal story. Regardless, we obviously have a lot of stars – whether others choose to perceive them as such or not.

I don’t know if we have the level of talent that our fans believe we do, but Doom – so well named! – DJ, Cutler, Young, Marshall, Schefler, Champ, Thomas, and our rookies like Clady, Royal, Torain and Hillis will be stars in Denver very, very soon, IMO. The season glitters on the horizon like the stars over the mountains!

"And where would we be be without women? We would be scarce, sir, damned scarce." Mark Twain

by broncobear on Jun 17, 2008 10:57 PM MDT   0 recs

Jay Cutler

Here is what I don’t understand. You have a bright, down-to-earth kid, with all the athletic AND mental gifts needed to be a good QB in the NFL, who goes through his first full season as a starter with untreated diabetes, but somehow guts it out and still puts up good numbers…isn’t this the kind of story the media usually eats alive? Shouldn’t reporters from SI, ESPN, et al be beating down the door trying to get the “human element” story from all this? Shouldn’t we have something on ESPN Page 2 by now?

I just…don’t…get it. It was a story for awhile, but now that Jay has his blood sugars in order, it’s fallen off the map. I read a fantasy football article yesterday that basically said, “Yeah, kid has talent, but his coach won’t let him just light it up, D-Jax is his #2 receiver, and he only had multiple TDs in 5 games last year. I don’t like him for this year.” Because, you know, using numbers last year (diabetes, a slot receiver playing as the #1/#2, an inexperienced Martinez in the slot, no Scheffler for the early part of the season, and an array of injuries on the offensive line) are SO indicative of what will happen this year.

I’m ranting. Need caffeine. Cheers.

~Uffdah

by Disco_Stu on Jun 18, 2008 7:51 AM MDT to parent up   0 recs

I read this whatifsports drivel too

I especially liked the projected individual statistics, where just about everybody declines from last year’s performance. You’d think the Broncos just decided to get worse in the offseason or something.

Most people on here know that I like Statistics. The point about statistical modeling taking out human bias has a flip side to it. Intelligent analysis requires an analyst to look at the subject with his eyes, to at least accompany what the numbers are saying. These guys at whatifsports did not watch film to arrive at their conclusions. They started with a general impression of the team, looked at the stats, and then projected minor decreases in productivity, based upon the bias of the impression they started with.

Like it or not, forecasting requires assumptions to be made. When you don’t really know what you’re talking about, it’s easy to project a performance that approximates that of the previous observed period. If my company achieved a 20% pre-tax profit margin last year, in the absence of other information, that may reasonably suggest that my company will repeat that performance this year. That’s great until our major customer decides to beat us up over pricing, and cuts significantly into our margin. When we hit 14%, which is good for most businesses, it’s a disappointment for us based upon initial expectations.

Systems are complicated; that’s why you call them systems. A business environment is a system with a tremendous amount of variables at play. So is a football season. Personnel and coaching changes, differences in the difficulty of schedules year-over-year, the quality of your opponents, injuries, the improvement/decline of existing players, weather conditions on a particular day in a particular place, team chemistry, game-to-game randomness, all of these things affect outcomes of individual games, which are a subset of the larger system.

That’s why it’s pretty asinine to try to forecast football results down to the exact yard that Selvin Young will rush for. Maybe my human bias is showing, I don’t know.

"I wouldn't ever set out to hurt anyone deliberately unless it was, you know, important --like a league game or something." DICK BUTKUS

by TedBartlett905 on Jun 18, 2008 10:32 AM MDT   0 recs

How many times has it been said...

...if we could always predict the outcome why bother playing?

If this be Hell, let us make the most of it!

by Trinidad Jack on Jun 18, 2008 10:45 AM MDT   0 recs

Great point, Ted!

I learned a long time ago that humans are infinitely complex and wonderfully varied. The professional athlete is also a sensitive human with thoughts, feelings, fears and courage. A single wrong or right incident in the morning can color the whole day of a game and produce a difference performance.

Likewise, you have professionals (sometimes and overused term) like Champ. Day in and out, he is ready, confident and produces at an incredibly high level.

We’re going to find out a lot about the humans that make up the Broncos in the upcoming seaons. Each will make and miss on plays, practice or game in their human system. How each deals with this, protects the men around them and shows their inner make-up will dictate how our seaon goes. There aren’t any algorithms for character or courage.

There aren't any algorithms for character or courage.

by broncobear on Jun 18, 2008 10:47 AM MDT   0 recs

I can't believe...

They didn’t pick out our run defense as our biggest weakness. That’s what I keep hearing from everyone else: Whether we did enough to solidify the middle… I don’t necessarily agree with that analysis but that should rank higher than “A lack of stars.” I’m not sure how you quantify that…

by JR_G on Jun 18, 2008 11:52 AM MDT   0 recs

Champ Bailey is a "possible exception?"

Good Lord, do these guys know anything? Champ has 8 friggin’ Pro Bowls! 8! I mean, come on, as everybody knows, 2/3 of Earth is covered by water, and the other 1/3 is covered by Champ Bailey. And I guess Marshall’s 1300 yards and 100 catches aren’t good enough for star status either. Maybe it has something to do with his losing a fight to a McDonald’s wrapper, but last time I checked, there are no McDonald’s wrappers on the football field. So he should be good to go. I also like how they have every single one of Jay’s major passing stats decreasing, even though his blood sugars are back to normal, he has a much more talented corps of receivers to throw to, is looking amazing in Mini-camp, and some other fourth thing I have not thought of yet. And since when were we on the same page as the Jets!? I could go on and on! But I won’t.

I did not make the Champ thing up, read it on a YouTube comment and had to use it. So no offense if it was anyone here. (smiles sheepishly)

Why do I live in Kansas City?

by papigrande on Jun 18, 2008 8:41 PM MDT   0 recs

I love that Champ comment

After this season when he gets to his 9th Pro Bowl he will tie a former Patriot (i refuse to acknowldge his other team) Haynes with 9. I just keep reading how badly the media is informed or it is they just dont want to study the Broncos and dont respect them

by broncfanstuckinsd on Jun 19, 2008 11:52 AM MDT to parent up   0 recs

d and st

i agree with the comment that our biggest weakness is probably right down the middle on d. if niko and d-rob don’t perform, we are toast. i feel our safeties, lynch included, will be more than adequate this season. next season, i don’t know.

i feel we are pretty solid everywhere else, except for st's. in fact, that is really our most exploitable weakness, if you factor in the new starters everywhere, and our poor play from last season. the kicking game and the coverage units have me especially concerned. i'm praying for average here

by davecheffy on Jun 19, 2008 12:14 AM MDT   0 recs

what?

this is the second time my post got screwed up like that. don’t know what it is. if someone does, let me know. the second paragraph should have read:

i feel we are pretty solid everywhere else, except for st’s. in fact, that is really our most exploitable weakness, if you factor in the new starters and our poor play from last season. the kicking game and coverage units are especially concerning. i’m praying for average here

by davecheffy on Jun 19, 2008 12:19 AM MDT   0 recs

Falling behind

Last year, based just on what I saw in just the two Chargers games, it looked like the Broncos really get thrown off their game when they fall behind. When the running game was largely gone, the Chargers were throwing nickels and dimes at Cutler and our defense really got to pin their ears back and go after the QB. It will be interesting to see if Clady makes a difference in your pass blocking under stress.

"He's doing everything a receiver would do except catch the ball." Mike Shanahan

by DaBolts on Jun 20, 2008 11:12 AM MDT   0 recs

Valid points

The big key for Denver this year is: don’t fall behind big!

A lot of changes for Denver. I’ll be looking at the Denver-SD games as two of the biggest four tests for the Broncos this year. Ideally, I’d love Denver to win both, but a win at home and a competitive game in SD would give me great hope for the future.

~Uffdah

by Disco_Stu on Jun 20, 2008 12:25 PM MDT to parent up   0 recs

Welcome to MHR, DaBolts

You bring up some good points. We had a makeshift O line for most of the season and our running game on both sides of the ball wasn’t what we needed it to be (the D was horrible, especially run D and if you’ve read here before you know that we’d agree with you on that), and yes, Cutler was abused way to often.

Clady is just what every fan likes – the possibility of greatness. Draft scouting reports mostly praise his pass blocking over his run blocking but he knows something about the zone blocking scheme. He hasn’t played an NFL down yet, though, and we all know that, too, so here’s hoping that the level of competition, as Disco Stu says, lives up to it’s potential. Thanks for posting!

There aren't any algorithms for character or courage. There aren't any for stupidity, either.

by broncobear on Jun 20, 2008 12:45 PM MDT to parent up   0 recs

I do wonder

if the real problem was getting to a point where your Bolts could play the nickel and dime at us. Realistically, that put the best defensive athletes on the field (with so many talented CB’s last year) – probably the best nickelt unit in the NFL… With blanket coverage behind them, the rush was free to charge hard…

So I would say controlling the rock, running the ball successfully early is the only remedy against the Bolts breaking us down late, or any team for that matter. In that regard, Clady is definitely in the mix, as our the long, but somewhat unproven bench of RB’s we have on the quad.

I will have to go look at how things when trailing against other teams last year… Certainly we looked bad against the Chargers pass rush late, and generally got behind by not defending the run well.

Welcome DaBolts. As I think you will find insightful comments like yours are always welcome here!

by jonahsilas on Jun 20, 2008 8:50 PM MDT to parent up   0 recs

That was

how we got beaten by Jacksonville, the Vikings and New England in the playoffs. The Titans almost got us that way too, but they broke down in the fourth quarter, Fat Albert was just sucking wind. You guys catch the Bolts at home at the best time 9/14, we have Hardwick and Cooper out, maybe Gates. Everybody talks about the Chargers losing Neal, but when Hardwick went down was when the running game really struggled in my opinion.

"He's doing everything a receiver would do except catch the ball." Mike Shanahan

by DaBolts on Jun 20, 2008 10:54 PM MDT to parent up   0 recs

Yeah

I wouldn’t have minded seeing Clady in a Charger uniform, that’s for sure.

"He's doing everything a receiver would do except catch the ball." Mike Shanahan

by DaBolts on Jun 20, 2008 10:56 PM MDT to parent up   0 recs

I think

It had to more with the fact the run defense sucked at best. Plus by that 2nd game I think the Broncos were ready for the season to be over. Plus it did not help when the Broncos drove down at the start of the game then fumble the ball.

by broncfanstuckinsd on Jun 20, 2008 2:39 PM MDT to parent up   0 recs

But that's our game

now. It’s the bend don’t break you guys ran and we got turnovers aplenty with it last year.

"He's doing everything a receiver would do except catch the ball." Mike Shanahan

by DaBolts on Jun 20, 2008 10:58 PM MDT to parent up   0 recs

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