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TRAVIS HENRY RELEASED!

The Denver Broncos on Monday released running back Travis Henry, it was announced.

“Although Travis has the ability to be one of the top running backs in the NFL, we have to make decisions that are in the best interests of our organization and its goal of winning a Super Bowl,” Head Coach Mike Shanahan said. “We did not feel his commitment to the Broncos was enough to warrant a spot on this football team.”

Henry was signed by the Broncos as a free agent on March 5, 2007, and rushed for 691 yards on 167 carries (4.1 avg.) with four touchdowns in 12 games (7 starts) during his only season with the club. Before joining the Broncos, the eighth-year player spent two seasons (2005-06) with Tennessee after beginning his career with Buffalo (2001-04).

More To Come....

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This is actually not as surprising as you would think

Ryan Torain (Bruiser Back) Drafted
Michael Pittman (Bruiser Back) Signed to Veteran Minimum
Selvin Young (Speed Back) Bulks Up to 215-220
Andre Hall (Speed Back) has a specific role outside of Backfield!

As GURU said earlier, the writing is on the wall for Henry whonever managed to make it into OTA’s. That doesn’t say a lot about his motivation for the team. While I think he is still a viable threat and the team who signs him will have a good player “IF” he can stay healthy, I think he and Denver parted ways at the begining of OTA’s. I’m not happy about the release (Cap Hit # Matt?) but it happened. Zappa shoudl be a little pleased here!

Until Terrell Davis makes it into the Hall of Fame, I refuse to acknowledge the existence of such a place other than the Ring of Fame at Mile High!

Davis to the Hall!

by Jon Tollerud on Jun 2, 2008 10:07 AM MDT reply actions  

Incentive Laden Contract

I think his contract was tied closely to performance. So why cut him now? Perhaps we are ready to sign a draft pick and coach felt he was the most expendable player.

What lies behind us and what lies before us are small matters compared to what lies within us. - Raplh Waldo Emerson

by firstfan on Jun 2, 2008 10:50 AM MDT up reply actions  

I am a little pleased...I've never been a huge fan of Henry and I was angry about his signing a long time ago...

It appears that Shanny has a lot of faith in Selvin Young filling the void along with Pittman and Torain.

If God is not a Bronco fan, then WHY are sunsets Blue and Orange? - Jon Tollerud 5/22/08
The Quest ~ TSG 5/19/08

by Tim Lynch on Jun 2, 2008 2:02 PM MDT up reply actions  

There's no guarantee...

that Henry will be signed by another team. As much as I love to hate ESPN, they said it best.that Shaun Alexander still is looking for a team and he doesn’t have Henry’s off-the-field issues. If Henry did make another team, it will be at a lower salary.

I just don’t think his heart’s in the game anymore.

"On the Plains of Hesitation bleach the bones of countless millions, who, at the Dawn of Victory, sat down to wait, and waiting--died!" - George W. Cecil

by Bronco Billy on Jun 2, 2008 5:40 PM MDT up reply actions  

I think that is the key factor right there!

I dont know that his heart is there for football anymore

Until Terrell Davis makes it into the Hall of Fame, I refuse to acknowledge the existence of such a place other than the Ring of Fame at Mile High!

Davis to the Hall!

by Jon Tollerud on Jun 2, 2008 6:20 PM MDT up reply actions  

As much of a fan as I am of Henry...

...this was on the way as of a couple of days ago. Press reports had Mike commenting on Scheffler getting back from injury in the near future, but little to no comment when asked about Henry. Mike also made a comment recently about Henry needing to prove himself, and I thought the comment was a little harsh if Henry was already a lock for the team. The writing was on the wall (as Jon says above).

I like the idea of pairing up Pittman and Young, and using Young as either a change of pace or rotating both players every four or five downs. If Torain is doing as well as we’ve heard, perhaps he could rotate with Young. Either way, I like Young in a major role, just not as a primary.

"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe

by Steve Nichols on Jun 2, 2008 10:26 AM MDT reply actions  

I forgot to add...

...That I’ve been working on a piece about who has seen their stock rise and fall in the last couple of weeks. This adds to my thoughts that Henry was in trouble.

"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe

by Steve Nichols on Jun 2, 2008 10:27 AM MDT up reply actions  

Whoa...

He may have kept his job had he not been injured. Sadly, he couldn’t stay healthy to save his life.

fader nation is a conquered nation

by mdierk on Jun 2, 2008 10:38 AM MDT reply actions  

Huge...

BTW, how come he represents no tradevalue?

Remember: New England won 18 last year; Oakland's won 19 in a half-decade
/The great Dane - formerly known as Claaaaas!

by Claus Vestergaard on Jun 2, 2008 10:58 AM MDT reply actions  

Not many people would take a chance on Henry

He has a lot of history and though he wants it to be JUST history its hard to get past it!

Until Terrell Davis makes it into the Hall of Fame, I refuse to acknowledge the existence of such a place other than the Ring of Fame at Mile High!

Davis to the Hall!

by Jon Tollerud on Jun 2, 2008 11:03 AM MDT up reply actions  

Everybody is at 80 players

Plus, I wonder if he might have done to show lack of committment to the Broncos. The organization is too classy to come out and say, but I think something more than the hammy.

What lies behind us and what lies before us are small matters compared to what lies within us. - Emerson

by firstfan on Jun 2, 2008 11:07 AM MDT up reply actions  

Perhaps....

Despite the fact that Shanny cannot stand injuries to linger, it was suspicious the way this hammy thing has gone the whole time. Henry was at every workout until the beginning of QB camp then was nowhere to be found….Something just doesn’t add up.

-TSG

www.milehighreport.com

by John Bena on Jun 2, 2008 11:13 AM MDT up reply actions  

I agree

Something strange happened behind the scenes. Mike stood up for Henry, and Henry paid him back with a salary cut. Something happened recently.

"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe

by Steve Nichols on Jun 2, 2008 11:39 AM MDT up reply actions   1 recs

I agree that there is something more here

Especially given the way that Shanahan and the team stood behind Henry with his false positive drug test last year.

As for the salary cap implications: From what I can remember about his restructuring, Henry was due to make $1 million in salary and had a $100K workout bonus. His signing bonus proration was $1.2 million for a total cap cost of #2.3 million in 2008 had he remained a Bronco.

By cutting Henry after June 1, Henry’s unprorated signing bonus gets split across two years. He will count $1.2 million against the cap in 2008 and $3.6 million against the cap in 2009. (You may hear theories that Denver waited until after June 1 to be able to spread the hit over two years, but the team is allowed to “post date” a couple transactions each year so the timing may or may not be a factor – I don’t have the info handy to know if Denver already made the maximum of two post-dated moves earlier this spring)

by MattR on Jun 2, 2008 11:42 AM MDT up reply actions  

I'm assuming you're the salary cap guy?

It seems every Broncos board has one.

I know we have some dead money with Walker and others and that we haven’t signed any draft picks, but couldn’t we take the entire hit now or a least a bigger portion?

Also, isn’t it prorated 1/3 this year, 2/3 next? That would make it 1.2 M then 2.4 M or 1.8M then 3.6M. Please excuse my ignorance on this topic, I’m still trying to learn.

"On the Plains of Hesitation bleach the bones of countless millions, who, at the Dawn of Victory, sat down to wait, and waiting--died!" - George W. Cecil

by Bronco Billy on Jun 2, 2008 5:56 PM MDT up reply actions  

I have spent way too much time looking at the CBA

It is actually the same section that answers both of your questions, and unfortunately the answer is that Denver has no choice about the way the dead money is handled:

For any player removed from the Team’s roster or whose Contract is assigned via waivers or trade after June 1, except in the Final Capped Year, any unamortized signing bonus amounts for future years will be included fully in Team Salary at the start of the next League Year.

To try and translate it, any player cut on or before June 1 has the remaining prorated portions of any signing bonuses accelerate into the current year. If the player is cut on June 2 or later, the signing bonus proration for the current year counts against the current year and anything else remaining counts against the next year.

In Travis Henry’s case, the five year contract he signed before the 2007 season had a $6 million signing bonus which means it gets prorated at $1.2 million per year. Since he was cut on June 2, the 2008 proration of $1.2 million counts against the cap in 2008 and the remaining $3.6 million count against next year. (If Henry had signed the contract before 2006 so he had three years remaining the cost would have been $1.2 this year and $2.4 next year)

by MattR on Jun 2, 2008 11:43 PM MDT up reply actions  

Thanks for the explanation...

I just started reading the CBA this offseason. I focused almost all of my time on Article XXIII or XXIV (I think) which covers salaries, tenders, and incentives and how they affect the cap. I don’t remember getting to this section yet! Thanks again.

"On the Plains of Hesitation bleach the bones of countless millions, who, at the Dawn of Victory, sat down to wait, and waiting--died!" - George W. Cecil

by Bronco Billy on Jun 3, 2008 6:10 PM MDT up reply actions  

Article 24 is the cap

and FYI, the bit I quoted was Article 24, Section 7, paragraph b (Signing Bonuses), subsection ii (acceleration), clause 2.

Also, if you are using the version of the CBA on the NFLPA’s website it is incomplete. The full CBA has 60 articles and appendices A though P.

by MattR on Jun 4, 2008 12:40 AM MDT up reply actions  

Perhaps a falling out...

Maybe Henry tested positive for something…doesn’t it take a few weeks for something like that to become public??

If God is not a Bronco fan, then WHY are sunsets Blue and Orange? - Jon Tollerud 5/22/08
The Quest ~ TSG 5/19/08

by Tim Lynch on Jun 2, 2008 2:03 PM MDT up reply actions  

Train

Wow. Shocks me. Thought Shanny would at least keep him through camp.

Does this mean that Torain doesn’t go on IR (as others hypothesized)?

by GaryP on Jun 2, 2008 11:14 AM MDT reply actions  

Character?

Do you think this had to do with “commitment” as Shanny says or part of the character house-cleaning?

by GaryP on Jun 2, 2008 11:18 AM MDT up reply actions  

To me...

It is a bit of both. I had brought up this possibility last week should the Raiders cut LaMont Jordan. When you combine the on-field issues(guy just cannot stay healthy) with the off-field stuff and mix in a little Michael Pittman and the improvement of Selvin Young Shanny figured he would cleanse the Broncos locker room now instead of letting it fester.

-TSG

www.milehighreport.com

by John Bena on Jun 2, 2008 11:22 AM MDT up reply actions  

It feels like there is much more to this story than meets the eye.

If God is not a Bronco fan, then WHY are sunsets Blue and Orange? - Jon Tollerud 5/22/08
The Quest ~ TSG 5/19/08

by Tim Lynch on Jun 2, 2008 2:10 PM MDT up reply actions  

No way

He wouldn’t have gone on IR even if Henry was kept. Reports are that he is recovering even better than originally hoped. He was a go at camp last week. Originally, it was thought he’d be able to make training camp but not be at 100% until the regular season.

Or so I'm told.

by MN Bronco on Jun 2, 2008 12:40 PM MDT up reply actions  

Not a surprise

Could anybody really think something was not up, when they signed Pittman. You would think Henry would have showed a little more dedication to Denver after Shanahan stuck up for him last year and was even fined for him. Good riddance I say. He could be good but come on. Maybe he was also a locker room problem also. I want dedicated and good character guys on the Broncos. I want a team who wants to win the Super Bowl. Maybe Henry just wanted checks.

by broncfanstuckinsd on Jun 2, 2008 11:36 AM MDT reply actions  

I totally agree

When Pittman was signed, I was expecting Henry to get dropped in Training Camp (or earlier) if he still had the slightest injury issues. I think it’s better for this Ballclub to rid him now than later. Even though we’re in OTA’s the Broncos need the feature back to be part of those reps. This team can’t afford to be held back because of a few players and their injuries. The Broncos need to be firing on all cylinders come the end of preseason. The more prepared they are in OTA’s, Training Camp, and Pre Season, the better they will achieve their goals. Henry was not part of that equation.

"If Denver beats us, I'll walk back to Detroit"

Alex Karras

by Denver Diehard on Jun 2, 2008 11:46 AM MDT up reply actions  

Dedication.

I don’t know what happened behind the scenes, so I’m not going to be critcal of Mike’s decision. But on the outside, I think Henry did ok. He led the League last year before being injured (and I’m blaming injury on character). He had a false positive on a drug test (certainly not his fault, as Coach will attest to). He also restructured his contract (instead of being a hold out, like the path that Javon followed).

I think Henry did something to deserve the firing, but I don’t think the public is privy to it. That’s just what I’m thinking.

"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe

by Steve Nichols on Jun 2, 2008 11:56 AM MDT up reply actions  

Sitting out?

Could it be just Shanahan sending a message re: sitting out with injuries? He made an example of Marshall last year – publicly forcing him back on the field. Perhaps, given the many reasons above that Henry was close enough to being cut that not pushing through the hamstring issues he was having made him a prime candidate to be made an example of…

by jonahsilas on Jun 2, 2008 12:30 PM MDT up reply actions  

or it could be

that he quit showing up to the OTA’s and the QB camp. If he is hurt show up. Ill bet Sheff showed up and he was hurt. He may not have been getting reps, but by not showing up isnt that sending a message to your teammates that you really on care about yourself?

by broncfanstuckinsd on Jun 2, 2008 12:36 PM MDT up reply actions  

I agree completely!

Even though BMarsh and Sheff were injured, they showed up to the TEAM functions. I don’t know what Sheffler was able to do, but at least Marshall was out there running routes.

If nothing else, Henry could have been there to help create a more TEAM first feeling.

"It's all over Fat Man"

- Tom Jackson to John Madden 1977 AFC Championship Game

by DesertBroncoFan on Jun 2, 2008 1:02 PM MDT up reply actions  

Do we know that is why Henry didn't show?

I was under the assumption that Henry wasn’t at practice with the team’s knowledge ahead of time, but I could be wrong. Was it reported either way? I agree that not showing up without prior permission is a stupid move. (I don’t like it when players substitute their own personal traing for team training either, unless the team approves it).

"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe

by Steve Nichols on Jun 2, 2008 1:25 PM MDT up reply actions  

that could have been the straw

that broke the camels back. I am under the impression the vets and such know way before hand when these mini-camps are. So if all of sudden he has to miss his required time it just smacks me in the face as selfish. Then again I just might be showing my disdain for him.

by broncfanstuckinsd on Jun 2, 2008 5:09 PM MDT up reply actions  

Andre Hall stated on NFL Network...

that he’s sure there was a reason “Trav” didn’t show up, so I’m pretty sure he was supposed to be there. Also, I believe Shanny mentioned in one of his press conferences last week that they would evaluate Henry’s and Scheff”s injuries on Monday. Those were the only two reports I remember re: whether or not Henry was supposed to be there today.

It’s really ironic that Shanny made the press release before he even talked to Henry about it. Travis must of really ticked him off.

"On the Plains of Hesitation bleach the bones of countless millions, who, at the Dawn of Victory, sat down to wait, and waiting--died!" - George W. Cecil

by Bronco Billy on Jun 2, 2008 6:04 PM MDT up reply actions  

I'm stuck on his past drug use...a postitive test would get him dropped like a bad habit.

Does anyone know how long it takes for that to go public? I know last year the false positive was unknown by the public for several weeks.

If God is not a Bronco fan, then WHY are sunsets Blue and Orange? - Jon Tollerud 5/22/08
The Quest ~ TSG 5/19/08

by Tim Lynch on Jun 2, 2008 2:12 PM MDT up reply actions  

I think that's possible.

On the other hand, if it happened awhile ago I would imagine he would be gone right then. As I pointed out in my story on “player stocks”, Shanny was giving some warning signs for a few days.

"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe

by Steve Nichols on Jun 2, 2008 3:19 PM MDT up reply actions  

Wait, Wait, Wait

From all accounts, including the suit that Henry filed against the NFL, the issue that was at the heart of the drug test reversal was purely a technicality. The test was positive, and while Henry may have denied actually lighting up there certainly was something in his system(whether it was second hand, laced brownies, whatever….)

I have even heard rumors that the technicality was even more far-fetched then simply the "I didn’t have my own representative at the test" argument that was first reported. Reportedly, it is a requirement that an ID is given during the test, even though everyone knows who is who. Allegedly, Henry was not required to show his ID, thus rendering the test invalid.

To me, all this is splitting hairs. AS HT said, Shanny stuck by his huge investment during the initial proceedings. It seems to me, however, that once Shanny convinced Henry take a huge paycut, much of the financial liability was removed from the team. This gave the Broncos all the power, and Shanny took advantage by cutting Henry at the first sign of transgression. I’m not saying it was a devious plan, but all this events aren’t purely coincidental, either.

-TSG

www.milehighreport.com

by John Bena on Jun 2, 2008 12:11 PM MDT reply actions  

But remember

Shanahan also stuck up for him, and criticized the league office for its handling and he got fined for it. I still believe Mike felt the loyalty was not reciprocated towards him and the team. As in dedication. Plus there very well may have been bigger issues that us the public dont know. But I am glad he is gone, based on the fact there is one less potential distraction. But on the fact he was leading the NFL in rushing after 4 games in really misleading. Especially when teams start bye weeks after the 3rd week. Now if you say its based on yds per game ya ok. But its total yards. But now lets see if SY or Hall or whomever can handle the load as a #1. Thats all I want is a back who is dedicated and wants to be here all the time

by broncfanstuckinsd on Jun 2, 2008 12:32 PM MDT up reply actions  

Oh yea...

I mentioned that he stuck by him. There is definitely more then meets the eye. Let’s face it, look at his production. It is what it is and I am glad he’s gone.

-TSG

www.milehighreport.com

by John Bena on Jun 2, 2008 12:48 PM MDT up reply actions  

It's kind of funny.

As fans we are very loyal to certain players. I also felt that we could do without Henry since last season, but I’ve always kept my feelings to myself because I saw Shanny sticking up for him. I was never sure whether he was trying to play through the injury or was sitting out the end of games and using it as an excuse. I guess it all comes down to putting your trust in Shanny that he’s always doing what’s best for the team. I do like this move. I think he’s moving in the direction of what we were talking about earlier – team chemistry.

"On the Plains of Hesitation bleach the bones of countless millions, who, at the Dawn of Victory, sat down to wait, and waiting--died!" - George W. Cecil

by Bronco Billy on Jun 2, 2008 3:02 PM MDT up reply actions  

And not unprecendented

Incentive laden contracts do give the organization some foothold. Say what you will about the Clarett and Sam Adams debacles – but both that incentives that were never met (Clarett moreso) and so cutting them was that much easier.

Guru (or anyone) know of other players they have done this with? Or other teams that are fond of this tactic? It seems like something the NFLPA would want to keep to a minimum… Somebody call Foxworth!

by jonahsilas on Jun 2, 2008 12:35 PM MDT up reply actions  

thats why

they get signing bonuses. Thats their guaranteed cash. That is also why the Broncos really waited to cut him today. So they can spread the cap hit over 2 season instead of one. I could be wrong on the reasoning for a 6/2 cut date, but the June 1st cut date use to have more players than it does now.

by broncfanstuckinsd on Jun 2, 2008 12:38 PM MDT up reply actions  

Could be...

It used to be a bigger deal when teams HAD to wait until June 1st. They changed that “rule” to allow teams to cut players earlier and designate them a June 1 casualty, thus giving player more time to find new jobs and allowing teams to organize their off-season moves better.

-TSG

www.milehighreport.com

by John Bena on Jun 2, 2008 12:47 PM MDT up reply actions  

technicalities

I agree that the technicalities are an issue that go to fairness and not to true responsibility. I don’t fault Henry’s legal people for going after the technicalities. But I think that Shanahan (and I) took up for Henry for much different reasons.

Henry passed a urine screen right after the failed one. Then he took a DNA hair test right after that. (Such a test goes back several months, and far overlapped the disputed test; it is also a far more accurate test). Henry passed that as well. He then volunteered for a lie detector test (which he also passed). In my mind, setting aside the technicalities (which have nothing to do with his guilt or innocence), he proved that his disputed test was more likely false than the several tests he took afterwards.

I also agree with your final point about the “plan”. I agree further that there is something that doesn’t sound right, and isn’t in the public eye on this one.

"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe

by Steve Nichols on Jun 2, 2008 1:19 PM MDT up reply actions  

Here is where I disagree. They have a chemical substance you ingest that cleanses your

entire body of drugs in less than 24 hours. I think he had a positive test then went out and flushed his system and got a negative the next day, then he shaved his head and body to remove several months from the testing of hair folicles. I think he did test positive and used everything out there in a drug users arsenal to defeat positive drug tests. Do a google search, you will find hundreds of websites dedicated to beating the system.

If God is not a Bronco fan, then WHY are sunsets Blue and Orange? - Jon Tollerud 5/22/08
The Quest ~ TSG 5/19/08

by Tim Lynch on Jun 2, 2008 2:16 PM MDT up reply actions  

Zappa

There is no product on the market that will purge your system of illegal substances. With Marijuana, the THC is stored in your fat cells so there is no way to get rid of these traces…except time (about 30-50 days depending on the volume of usage).

They do have products on the market that will hide the chemical traces in urine for a period of about 3 hours. But these products usually create suspicion with lab testing because they turn your unrine greenish yellow.

I highyly recommend the urinator. It’s a belt you wear with a fake member. The belt comes with clean urine that warms up to 98.6 degrees.

I know it’s not football-related, but whatever.

Bill Williamson is a gelatinous tub of goo. Al Davis eats his own poop.

by kwool79 on Jun 2, 2008 2:32 PM MDT up reply actions  

Ok, well there a lots of places that CLAIM to remove these chemicals from your body..

and since I don’t frequent the pot smoking, I wouldn’t know if these things actually work. All I know is that there are actually ways to beat the system…and you just proved me right. lol In a manner of speaking anyways. ;)

If God is not a Bronco fan, then WHY are sunsets Blue and Orange? - Jon Tollerud 5/22/08
The Quest ~ TSG 5/19/08

by Tim Lynch on Jun 2, 2008 2:37 PM MDT up reply actions  

I hate to be a know it all......

or a smoke it all….but I figured maybe there would be one other Bronco fan that could benefit from this knowledge.

When is the next post Zapster?

I love reading your articles.

Bill Williamson is a gelatinous tub of goo. Al Davis eats his own poop.

by kwool79 on Jun 2, 2008 2:59 PM MDT up reply actions  

As soon as I finished this doobie. ;) lol

No, I got one coming tomorrow afternoon. Seems irrelevant to post a Broncos history article the day after the biggest news of the offseason thus far, but oh well. It’s been scheduled for a while now. :)

And thank you for the kind words. I stopped being a smoke it all drink it all type shortly after becoming a parent. Now I only just drink it a little rather than a lot. ;)

If God is not a Bronco fan, then WHY are sunsets Blue and Orange? - Jon Tollerud 5/22/08
The Quest ~ TSG 5/19/08

by Tim Lynch on Jun 2, 2008 3:15 PM MDT up reply actions  

I couldn't imagine a more rewarding detox program Zappa.

Bill Williamson is a gelatinous tub of goo. Al Davis eats his own poop.

by kwool79 on Jun 2, 2008 3:36 PM MDT up reply actions  

In terms of cheating the tests.

I’m confident this didn’t happen in the Henry case.

When all of the talk about Henry was going on last year I couldn’t disuss my job. At the time Guru and Styg were aware, and I’m not sure if you were in on it or not (my schedule during the season, as you may recall, was bizzare). I was an investigator for a hospital system, and I investigated internal pharmacutical theft (more in terms of nursing staff than actual hospital pharmacies). I’m pretty up on drug testing.

Claims about “flushing” chemicals out of the system are pretty much urban legend. In fact, many of the famous items used to “flush” the chemicals are items that actually flag a sample (the rumors were started by law enforcement). There is a kernal of truth to shorter hair samples providing less in terms of sampling time frames, but the simple answer to this is that samples are not taken if the sample hair is too short. If Henry had shaved his body to defeat the test, this would have been noted and the test not given.

I don’t want to go into detail about drug testing. I’m currently working for a county sheriff’s dept, and despite my age I’m hoping to move into a small, town marshal’s program. I’ll just leave the discussion of Henry at the point that I strongly believe that most people that fail a test are guilty. Sometimes there are circumstances that make a person worth retesting. In the case of Henry, he did and said a lot of things that made me consider that he was being truthful. I buy that his subsequent tests were more accurate than the initial test.

"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe

by Steve Nichols on Jun 2, 2008 3:16 PM MDT up reply actions  

Yea, you slapped me down last year too when I suggested the same thing...

Of course, I only remembered while reading your comment here. I do recall you saying almost exactly the same thing to me about 8 months ago in a long lost thread somewhere. ;)

My apologies, but I don’t mind making an arse out of myself…if anything anyone who didn’t read the discussion last year just heard it for the first time. ;)

I should have known law enforcement would sucker people into believing such rubbish. (yours truly believed it.)

If God is not a Bronco fan, then WHY are sunsets Blue and Orange? - Jon Tollerud 5/22/08
The Quest ~ TSG 5/19/08

by Tim Lynch on Jun 2, 2008 3:39 PM MDT up reply actions  

When I was a medic

...way back before I even attended college, there was a very popular product that many health food stores carried. Army guys would take the stuff like mad and swore by it.

When we caught the flags in their systems we just contacted CID (Criminal Investigation Division) and they would order another test. Those guys got tested more than most, and almost always failed an unnanounced test.

The funny thing is, decades later, I still here people swearing by the product. The rumor about the effectiveness of the product was started in the late 70’s, and the source of the rumor was originaly a state highway patrol dept.

"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe

by Steve Nichols on Jun 2, 2008 3:45 PM MDT up reply actions  

lol!

If God is not a Bronco fan, then WHY are sunsets Blue and Orange? - Jon Tollerud 5/22/08
The Quest ~ TSG 5/19/08

by Tim Lynch on Jun 2, 2008 3:15 PM MDT up reply actions  

C'mon guys!

This is the Mile High Report, not the Get High Report!

lol

"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe

by Steve Nichols on Jun 2, 2008 3:23 PM MDT up reply actions  

As long as kwool79...

...doesn’t start recommending, er, uhm, instruments for that kind of silliness too.

: )

"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe

by Steve Nichols on Jun 2, 2008 3:40 PM MDT up reply actions  

whoa now...images are running rampant in my head now!!

My God, what have you done man!!!!! ;)

If God is not a Bronco fan, then WHY are sunsets Blue and Orange? - Jon Tollerud 5/22/08
The Quest ~ TSG 5/19/08

by Tim Lynch on Jun 2, 2008 3:41 PM MDT up reply actions  

I prefer the Mile High Club to Get High Report myself... ;)

been there, done that, got a dirty t-shirt. Pot only makes you think that it makes you smart…it actually makes you dumb. Took me a lot of years to figure that one out, but I didn’t have good role models growing up so oh well.

If God is not a Bronco fan, then WHY are sunsets Blue and Orange? - Jon Tollerud 5/22/08
The Quest ~ TSG 5/19/08

by Tim Lynch on Jun 2, 2008 3:41 PM MDT up reply actions  

Gotta love it when Shanny does what needs to be done to produce a winner in Denver!

If God is not a Bronco fan, then WHY are sunsets Blue and Orange? - Jon Tollerud 5/22/08
The Quest ~ TSG 5/19/08

by Tim Lynch on Jun 2, 2008 2:14 PM MDT up reply actions  

It makes sense and helps set up the back picture a bit...

Now I could see Andre Hall’s stock rise a bit, as he has a good chance to make the roster.

There’s a little more hope for Mike Bell if Pittman plays the RB now which is something that’s even more likely now that Henry is gone. Unfortunately, there’s not THAT much more hope for the guy.

A lot of the posts we’ve seen here at MHR seemed to bring up the points about Henry and got me to start thinking that it was only a matter of time. Denver has a lot of decent backs and I guess the team didn’t want to deal with Henry’s lingering injury issue anymore. What this does is immediately make Selvin Young the starting back. The guy “seems” ready and is certainly not hesitant to express that readiness. However, us Bronco fans have to see it on the field from the undrafted free agent out of Texas.

by phantom818 on Jun 2, 2008 12:16 PM MDT reply actions  

And where does Alridge fit in this?

If SY is turning into more of a power guy, and Pittman/Bell/Torain all competing for a third down/goal line type role, Alridge really sticks out as a speedy change of pace type. He is really small (5’9”/174), but ran the 3rd fastest 40 for RB’s at the combine.

Anyone know how are his workouts going so far?

by jonahsilas on Jun 2, 2008 12:48 PM MDT up reply actions  

I don't think the added pounds...

..will make Young more of a power guy. The added weight should do two things in his case: give him protection from more injuries (except for ankle and knee injuries, which rise with added weight), and allow him to be on the field for more downs.

"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe

by Steve Nichols on Jun 2, 2008 1:22 PM MDT up reply actions  

So you still see him as a more of a speed guy?

Which makes for an interesting scenario – maybe he starts, but is spelled more by power guys like Pittman and Torain? This flip flops what it was looking like – i.e. pound all day with Henry, and bring in Young as a home run hitter… not sure how I like this. What’s the chance that Selvin sticks as a change of pace, meaning Torain or Pittman are the new front runners for starting RB?

Mostly – can’t say it enough times – camp is going to be exciting!

by jonahsilas on Jun 2, 2008 1:40 PM MDT up reply actions  

But it'd be silly to spell Young with Hall

Right? In theory you want to change it up a bit – and Hall and Young are very similarly styled runners. No matter what I feel like they are competing for the same spot, whether staretr or change of pace…

I’d like to see Hall do well, though. I like his toughness.

by jonahsilas on Jun 2, 2008 2:20 PM MDT up reply actions  

The traditional approach...

...is to pound the ball with power, and to change up with speed. It is also what I like to see. But football isn’t limited to this approach.

You can use speed and more speed, speed and then power, or power and more power. The pass is also a change up of sorts.

The nice thing about the zone block is that lanes are opened up in the middle that benefit power and speed runners both. In a more convential blocking scheme, speed guys take the outside routes a lot more. While we may not have a bruising back to knock around the LBs, our OL should still be reaching the second level in blocking.

It wouldn’t be my favorite approach (a speed runner as the primary guy), but that’s only a matter of taste. Denver should be able to run any of our guys. I am hoping that we keep the rotational system (or at least change of pace) though.

"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe

by Steve Nichols on Jun 2, 2008 3:28 PM MDT up reply actions  

We may use the pounder to spell the speedster...

It appears Young has the 60% job, I think Pittman and Torain will pick up the latter 40% job. I see nothing wrong with switching the roles.

If God is not a Bronco fan, then WHY are sunsets Blue and Orange? - Jon Tollerud 5/22/08
The Quest ~ TSG 5/19/08

by Tim Lynch on Jun 2, 2008 3:43 PM MDT up reply actions  

Let this be a cautionary note about guaranteed money

When Travis Henry signed his deal, it was widely reported as a 5 year/$22.5 million deal with $12 million guaranteed. Well, after one year, Travis Henry was released and the total amount paid to him was $6,695,000. The moral is that not all money that is reported as guaranteed is actually guaranteed. Sometimes the guarantee is real (ie. it is written into the contract). But a lot of times, agents call money guaranteed because it is virtually guaranteed in their mind (ie. they think there is no way the team will take the cap hit to cut the player instead of paying an option bonus or a second year’s salary)

by MattR on Jun 2, 2008 1:02 PM MDT reply actions  

I'm sure glad

we have somebody on this site who understands all this cap stuff. The rules and ways around them are enough to make the head of a Philidelphia lawyer spin! Thanks MattR.

What lies behind us and what lies before us are small matters compared to what lies within us. - Emerson

by firstfan on Jun 2, 2008 1:29 PM MDT up reply actions  

I thought

that I was the bomb for figuring out Microsoft’s corporate licensing scheme. NFL salaries and cap numbers though give me vertigo. Thanks for explaining in human terms, MattR

by jonahsilas on Jun 2, 2008 1:42 PM MDT up reply actions  

DITTO

except about figuring out Microsoft corporate licensing schemes. lol

If God is not a Bronco fan, then WHY are sunsets Blue and Orange? - Jon Tollerud 5/22/08
The Quest ~ TSG 5/19/08

by Tim Lynch on Jun 2, 2008 2:26 PM MDT up reply actions  

Whats the system?

lol

Until Terrell Davis makes it into the Hall of Fame, I refuse to acknowledge the existence of such a place other than the Ring of Fame at Mile High!

Davis to the Hall!

by Jon Tollerud on Jun 2, 2008 3:40 PM MDT up reply actions  

Do they still have to pay the guy though?

Why do I get the feeling that teams sometimes owe players money when they leave town? Is that not football related or am I thinking about something completely different?

by phantom818 on Jun 2, 2008 2:03 PM MDT up reply actions  

Could be several things

I am not exactly sure what you are thinking of, but a few different possibilities pop into mind.

You could be thinking of dead money with respect to the salary cap. That is money that the player counts against the cap even though he is no longer on the team.

The money could have truly been guaranteed. I believe the base salaries for each of the six years of Matt Ryan’s contract are fully guaranteed. (They are also relatively low and the real money is in escalators and incentives). If Ryan is cut before his contract is up, he will still get paid. But that money will also count against the Falcons salary cap as if he was on the team (I think it might accelerate into the cap the year he is cut, but I am not exactly sure offhand)

The last possibility is deferred compensation. The team and player can mutually agree to defer payment of a portion of the salary to a future date (with interest paid). When this is done, the money counts against the cap for the year it is earned (and not when it is actually paid). The team also has to put a portion of the deferred money into a league managed escrow account. Denver deferred a lot of money to people like Elway and TD in the 90’s when they were financing the new stadium. They got in trouble with the league and lost a couple draft picks because they deferred too large an amount and because they did not report all the deferred payments and make the escrow payments (or something like that. It is hard to find details 6+ years later even with the glorious Internet).

by MattR on Jun 2, 2008 2:37 PM MDT up reply actions  

So

sometimes guaranteed money truly IS guaranteed based on contract stipulations, but not always?

by phantom818 on Jun 2, 2008 3:09 PM MDT up reply actions  

Pretty much

And good luck trying to track down which is which. Too many times, reporters use the numbers that agents give them. And the agents always want to make the contract look as nice as possible so they can bag other clients. On the other side, some teams like Denver don’t comment at all about contract details and most others will let the agent play his game since they know the real deal and they want the player to feel good with the deal. (A notable exception was this year when Oakland actually pushed back at some of the info floating around about a couple deals because the team was getting abused for overpaying)

So that makes it real tough to figure out what money is guaranteed and what is “guaranteed”

by MattR on Jun 2, 2008 3:54 PM MDT up reply actions  

He redid his deal

So I am not sure initally how his signing bonus was to be paid. But I think he got 6 million last year and the other 6 was to be over the next 2 season. So by releasing him now its not a big cap hit. But this is the new day and age of the NFL. Signing bonuses. usually though when a player re-does a deal the signing bonus is converted to a roster bonus so that the team cant out from a major cap hit

by broncfanstuckinsd on Jun 2, 2008 4:56 PM MDT up reply actions  

It was initially supposed to be

$8.5 million in 2007 and $3.5 million in 2008. But the 2007 money was to be paid in installments and only $6 million had been paid when Henry had the positive drug test. So Denver was able to withhold $2.5 million and push it back to 2008. So it was the same $12 million over two years, but broken down as $6 million in 2007 and $6 more in 2008, And then this offseason Henry gave up the $6 million due in 2008 and lowered his base salaries to $1 million for each of the last 4 years on the contract. In return, Denver added incentive clauses to allow Henry to recoup the money if he was productive.

Had Henry not failed the drug test, things would have been very different. Denver would have paid him the entire $8.5 million bonus last year which would have increased the cost to cut him to $1.7 million in 2008 plus $5.1 million in 2009. In addition, they likely would have paid him the $3.5 million bonus he was due in March (Henry would have had little reason to renegotiate and Denver would have had little leverage to push the issue) If that bonus was paid out, the cost to cut Henry today would be $2.575 million in 2008 and $7.725 in 2009. That would have been too much for Denver to bear and Henry would still be a Bronco.

by MattR on Jun 3, 2008 12:39 AM MDT up reply actions  

Correct me if I'm wrong...

but didnt he sacrifice the other $5.5 million of the contract by renegotiating this year? If we had cut him before that we would have been on the hook for the entire bonus, right?

by Papamag on Jun 2, 2008 8:03 PM MDT up reply actions  

Thanks for the clarification, HT

The claims of marijuana abuse are common, but you’re dead on – the technicality here is that false positives are not unheard of and accidently mixed samples do occur, like the patient of a colleague of mine who had her tests for cancer mixed up with anothers and was told wrongly that she had the disease. That possiblity would make the 2nd sample, which the court literally threw out, equally unacceptable. The hair analysis and lie detector were pretty conclusive.

You’re right that this was a lot more than a technicality. I’m happy that they cut him, but some criticism seems unwarranted. He’ll catch on somewhere else and drive them crazy

O'Brien's Law states that Murphy was an optimist.

by Doc Bear on Jun 2, 2008 1:29 PM MDT reply actions  

2nd post

I saw this comming after Broncos signed Pittman. Henry was no were to be found. I hope he gets signed by someone fast though. He deserves another chance somewhere else. (Dallas). Hopefully this gives our younger guys a boost of confidence. Good riddance Travis!

by Denver_Native on Jun 2, 2008 1:43 PM MDT reply actions  

Well...........

I never liked this signing from the beginning. I know he is a good back when healthy, but other than a couple years in Buffalo and 1 year in Tennesee, he’s never been healthy. His injuries have always been the nagging kind and he doesn’t seem willing to play through them which spells WIMP in my book. I just don’t think the guy is all that tough. I don’t want to unjustly criticize him for the character issues so I won’t say anything, but you can put me in the camp that never liked this signing from the beginning. With the depth we have, I think this is the right move.

The player who thinks he can and the player who knows he can are two different players, which one are you???

by Broncofan on Jun 2, 2008 1:44 PM MDT reply actions  

Few thoughts

First I think this is more to do with our new direction this year, we brought in character and heart guys during this reloading season. Travis looked like he was trying to turn around the character part, but if what Shanahan says is true, then Travis wasn’t putting his heart into it. I think that’s worse (in Shanahan’s eyes) than being of poor character.

Second, Do you think that Shanahan read about Torrain and his new “Train” nickname and decided that was the difference :)

by Darin H on Jun 2, 2008 2:35 PM MDT reply actions  

Consider this . . .

Of course, the acquisition of Pittman likely correlates to Henry’s release.

Nonetheless, Pittman hasn’t been around long enough to really show what he’s got, Torain is still an unproven rookie, and Hall is out of the question as a starter. Could it be, then, that Young has shown the coaches something this year that they hadn’t seen previously in him?

Just a thought.

by AZDynamics on Jun 2, 2008 2:53 PM MDT reply actions  

I like that thought...keep it up! ;)

If God is not a Bronco fan, then WHY are sunsets Blue and Orange? - Jon Tollerud 5/22/08
The Quest ~ TSG 5/19/08

by Tim Lynch on Jun 2, 2008 3:44 PM MDT up reply actions  

Well Selvin did say that his goal was 2000 yards.

Shanny said that Young’s not an every down back. Young’s response, it seems, was to bulk up for this off-season. Even if he never makes 2000 yards, his determination and heart have said a lot already. I liked him last year. With Hall’s performance against the Bears while dealing with an injury, Pittman’s signing, and Torain being drafted, someone will be successful as the starter. The rest will work hard to succeed in whatever role is asked of them.

"On the Plains of Hesitation bleach the bones of countless millions, who, at the Dawn of Victory, sat down to wait, and waiting--died!" - George W. Cecil

by Bronco Billy on Jun 2, 2008 6:28 PM MDT up reply actions  

I knew when......

I had an idea this would happen when I saw Henry was allready injured at the start of mini-camps… oh well I would rather have R. Dayne back then Henry

by The Dugan01 on Jun 2, 2008 3:12 PM MDT reply actions  

I am back!!

Put slightly differently than before… I think the release of Henry has a lot to do with our long term plans for the team as well. Pittman is a on a one year contract, and I don’t expect him to stay beyound that. He is nothing more than a backup RB/FB/HB that will serve as an insurance policy for 08.

Ahead of Pittman, we have 3 (actually 4 if you count Aldridge) young running backs. Young can play football, and Hall showed what he too can play (he did well against the Bears and as a backup).

So Torain is the real question mark for us fans, and by cutting Henry we are more or less locked into a Young/Torain backfield for the next couple of years.

There was no room for Henry and the 4 years remaining on his contract. His presence would either take away the time we need to develop the younger guys. If we did sit him in favor of the kids, then he would start to become discontent and …

You get the idea.

Do we play our best players for 08 (some of whom might not be on the team for 09 or 2010) or do we go with the re-build? If we aren’t going to win the super bowl in 08, might as well re-build.

Orange County is hot. Really! Haven't you seen the weather report?

by amirebram on Jun 2, 2008 3:19 PM MDT reply actions  

AMIR! What's up bro?

I thought you might have moved out into the boondocks and met some rednecks. ;) As I recall you are afraid fo small towns. lol

Oh and Welcome Back…you have been missed around here.

If God is not a Bronco fan, then WHY are sunsets Blue and Orange? - Jon Tollerud 5/22/08
The Quest ~ TSG 5/19/08

by Tim Lynch on Jun 2, 2008 3:46 PM MDT up reply actions  

Oddly enough

I am in a small town. Ithaca NY; it just happens to be one of the most liberal towns in whole country.

Thanks. Works is a killer, but I have been checking the site every day. Just no time to write.

Orange County is hot. Really! Haven't you seen the weather report?

by amirebram on Jun 2, 2008 4:27 PM MDT up reply actions  

Shanny always wants the Super Bowl.

After what he told DWill’s mother and knowing how Shanny approached every season, I have no doubt that the best players will play. Shanny doesn’t believe in rebuilding years.

"On the Plains of Hesitation bleach the bones of countless millions, who, at the Dawn of Victory, sat down to wait, and waiting--died!" - George W. Cecil

by Bronco Billy on Jun 2, 2008 6:31 PM MDT up reply actions  

I know, and I think it is the right thing to do.

When you go into re-build, then the players aren’t expected to win alot. And if that sets in, then it is a hard culture to defeat. Just look at the Cardinals.

And also take a look at the Giants … you never know when it will all come together for you to win.

I look at last year in the same way. Sam Adams and Simion Rice were never really expected to work out. We were rebuilding, but Shanny had to at least make an effort to give the team a chance to win—even if it was a small chance. The players had to see it, and know that they are expected to win, no matter what.

Orange County is hot. Really! Haven't you seen the weather report?

by amirebram on Jun 2, 2008 7:22 PM MDT up reply actions  

I don't think Shanny went into 2007 expecting the monumental defensive collapse

that Mr. Bates brought us. Shanny did what he knew he needed to do to purge the Bronco organization of all the parasites and do-nothings on the team. He did well in my opinion. :)

If God is not a Bronco fan, then WHY are sunsets Blue and Orange? - Jon Tollerud 5/22/08
The Quest ~ TSG 5/19/08

by Tim Lynch on Jun 2, 2008 9:06 PM MDT up reply actions  

Totally agree!

Nice post.

"On the Plains of Hesitation bleach the bones of countless millions, who, at the Dawn of Victory, sat down to wait, and waiting--died!" - George W. Cecil

by Bronco Billy on Jun 3, 2008 6:12 PM MDT up reply actions  

Welcome back Amir!

What lies behind us and what lies before us are small matters compared to what lies within us. - Emerson

by firstfan on Jun 2, 2008 6:53 PM MDT up reply actions  

Thanks

I miss the hot Avatar

Orange County is hot. Really! Haven't you seen the weather report?

by amirebram on Jun 2, 2008 7:22 PM MDT up reply actions  

You should have seen his one before this one.

“hot” isn’t exactly the word I would use. lol

If God is not a Bronco fan, then WHY are sunsets Blue and Orange? - Jon Tollerud 5/22/08
The Quest ~ TSG 5/19/08

by Tim Lynch on Jun 2, 2008 9:07 PM MDT up reply actions  

Interchangeable Baby.

Dig this here. Travis out, in. It’s that simple. One of these days we’ll find that all purpose back to go along with the world’s greatest zone blocking system. Call me cocky but, am I lying?

Also I want to ask is there a nickname for the world’s best running system? if not, im thinking Orange Rush? ya kno, to go along with tha Crushhhhhh. lmao

Big Red Bird Of The Derby City

by AllinWithMyCards on Jun 2, 2008 3:32 PM MDT reply actions  

Orange Rush!

I like that!

The actual name for Denver’s offensive scheme would be real long (unless someone shortens the combination of titles down to something like “The Shanahan System”. Many titles get shortened by using the Coach’s name, though I haven’t heard this in Shanahan’s case yet).

We run a West Coast Offense, Zone Block / One Cut System on offense. (There are Zone Block systems that don’t feature one cut running, but not at the pro level. I don’t know about the college level. Most high schools that run a Zone Block system don’t use the one cut).

"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe

by Steve Nichols on Jun 2, 2008 3:38 PM MDT up reply actions  

We won't have to worry about getting sued by a soda company. ;)

If God is not a Bronco fan, then WHY are sunsets Blue and Orange? - Jon Tollerud 5/22/08
The Quest ~ TSG 5/19/08

by Tim Lynch on Jun 2, 2008 3:46 PM MDT up reply actions  

Good Ideal

we could market it as “Orange Rush, 1000 yard season in a can.” LMAO

Big Red Bird Of The Derby City

by AllinWithMyCards on Jun 2, 2008 4:01 PM MDT up reply actions  

Right

The combination of the zone block + the one cut makes it unique to us. expecially when we’er rotation mulitple fresh Rbacks. it really does look like a rush when you concider it.

Anybody have any other sugestions for a nickname for our run system.

1. Orange Crush. -simple, to the point.

Big Red Bird Of The Derby City

by AllinWithMyCards on Jun 2, 2008 3:49 PM MDT reply actions  

Not exactly unique

I believe all of the pro teams using ZB use the One Cut approach. I know that many (of the few) high schools that ZB don’t.

I’m still voting for the Orange Rush though!

"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe

by Steve Nichols on Jun 2, 2008 4:37 PM MDT up reply actions  

????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

whoa. ok, let the henry-bashing begin, i guess. can’t say i like this move in any way. anyway, i will post my top-ten list for why this may have happened now. let me know what you guys think.

1- henry and shanny had a serious disagreement about the extent and severity of the injured hamstring, and also henry’s dedication to getting back on the practice field

2- shanny became impatient and overstated the importance of early camps for a veteran. while “planning” to rest d-rob and not rush other players, he had no such patience for travis, even saying he was out of “chances”. that must include his health

3- torain looks healthy enough to play this season, and young also has impressed him enough to make henry expendable. he decided to move on now, and give the other backs the reps, being fair to their competition while not ‘holding” a top spot for him

4- shanny thinks pittman is alot better than we do. i like him, but not starter like him

5- one of either bell, sapp, hillis, hall, or alridge have convinced him to go with the younger stable of backs, too. a surprise candidate?

6- henry has become a locker room cancer/bad example, something i have to doubt as a former team mvp

7- someone else is on the radar, somewhere

8- the unknown, to be known at a later time

9- conduct detrimental to the team, perhaps in the promiscuity department, or drugs

10- and finally, shanny has finally gone loco bananas

personally, i think it may be a combination of #’s 1, 2, 3, and 8. i still think he was a low-risk, low-pay, high reward option, but something apparently seriously pissed mike off, and it appears to be mostly #1. from the horse’s mouth-"We did not feel his commitment to the Broncos was enough to warrant a spot on this football team." his committment to getting healthy, i would presume. very unfortunate, but now we move on. if this doesn’t get mike bell going, nothing ever will. things just got a little more interesting, didn’t they?

zappa, broncfanstuckinsd, i await the i-told-you-so’s. the door has just swung wide open for young, let’s see what he can do. i don’t see pittman in a starter role, so i’m narrowing this down to young, torain, and yes, bell. torain hasn’t done it, and bell is in the doghouse, so it’s selvin’s job to lose, it appears. indeed, the change of pace back looks to be the bruiser, now. maybe young and a pittman/torain split? i just don’t see the other backs getting most of the carries in this situation, now. major turn of events, i would say. i honestly thought this post was a joke from zappa, and then i saw sportrguru as the poster, and the first thing that came to my mind was a bunch of ? wow

by davecheffy on Jun 2, 2008 4:43 PM MDT reply actions  

Mike's comments are unusualy personal.

I think something pissed Mike off. It was either a drug test, or perhaps an argument about the injury. It’s not like Mike to speak in these terms. I think #8 is highly possible.

"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe

by Steve Nichols on Jun 2, 2008 4:52 PM MDT up reply actions  

I like Torian

But if SY can do it, I hope he gets 1500 yards. Henry had his chance and blew it. Still if he was really dedicated he would have proven it, no? Remember these OTA’s are voluntary in name only. I fhe was hurt show up and get treatment and show you are a team player. Marshall who has been ridiculed by the friggin media was there running and doing whatever he could. So I dont feel bad about Henry. To me it goes to what I believe is that Henry did not really care.
I agree with you Dave that Pittman isnt gonna be a starter. As I have stated in the past until SY proves he can handle the load for 16 games I am being somewhat cautious plus I am in the Torian camp. Maybe driving his bandwagon, but he does have to prove himself when the pads come on. Plus if I earned the I-told-ya-so I can take it. What I want is what is good for the best Franchise in the NFL. Plus how great will it be on opening night to drop a good 30+ on those clowns in the bay area with a rb getting 150+ on the ground.

by broncfanstuckinsd on Jun 2, 2008 5:06 PM MDT up reply actions  

I'm for Young

Why Torian? Not challenging you, just looking for a different perspective.

I’m for Young right now. If you took into account his last five games, when he was arguable the most “tired”, he still would have had an 1100 yard season on only 13 carries / game and averaged 5.2 yards per rush.

"On the Plains of Hesitation bleach the bones of countless millions, who, at the Dawn of Victory, sat down to wait, and waiting--died!" - George W. Cecil

by Bronco Billy on Jun 2, 2008 7:05 PM MDT up reply actions  

I've been on the Young bandwagon since last season...spent many hours hacking

away at this keyboard telling guys why Young is the second coming of TD. Of course, now I no longer think he is the second coming of TD, but I still hope he will be a great running back for us for the next few years. ;)

I am very pleased to see Travis Henry GONE!

If God is not a Bronco fan, then WHY are sunsets Blue and Orange? - Jon Tollerud 5/22/08
The Quest ~ TSG 5/19/08

by Tim Lynch on Jun 2, 2008 9:08 PM MDT up reply actions  

There is just something

I like about him. Its the same kind of drive and desire I saw in Young. My only concern about Young is his duability. I like him but the guy has been hurt in almost every year since HS. That just concerns me. Plus I want the Broncos to have a back that can get 20-25 carries a game, and have his back up get 5-10 carries.

by broncfanstuckinsd on Jun 3, 2008 11:39 AM MDT up reply actions  

To go back to the TD comparrison...

TD had injury concerns early on too, but he had 4 of the best seasons in NFL history before those concerns became reality.

If God is not a Bronco fan, then WHY are sunsets Blue and Orange? - Jon Tollerud 5/22/08
The Quest ~ TSG 5/19/08

by Tim Lynch on Jun 3, 2008 1:47 PM MDT up reply actions  

Ya, but

We as Bronco fans were not spoiled bu the consistent 1000 yards rushers. So maybe I am nitpicking a bit. Maybe I just want Torian to be that rookie that busts onto the scene and is so tough to stop. If it is not him I really do hope its Young. Plus I did like Young more than any other RB last year. He does have that go the distance speed.

by broncfanstuckinsd on Jun 3, 2008 2:24 PM MDT up reply actions  

Torain is built more like Mike Anderson...

Selvin is not built more like TD. Hmmm…I think I’ll root for Young this year and if he doesn’t become the dominate RB he thinks he is then next year I’ll be jumping on the Torain Train!! lol

Until the next TD arrives, I don’t think I’ll be completely loyal to any RB on our roster. ;)

If God is not a Bronco fan, then WHY are sunsets Blue and Orange? - Jon Tollerud 5/22/08
The Quest ~ TSG 5/19/08

by Tim Lynch on Jun 3, 2008 3:44 PM MDT up reply actions  

Thanks for you comments...

This might be the first year in as long as I remember where I’m not hoping for the rookie to steal the show. Don’t get me wrong, I want Torian to be great, I just really liked Young last year. It’s always someone new: Gary, Anderson, Portis, Mike Bell, Young, etc. I guess we’ll wait for preaseason to see how this year shakes out.

"On the Plains of Hesitation bleach the bones of countless millions, who, at the Dawn of Victory, sat down to wait, and waiting--died!" - George W. Cecil

by Bronco Billy on Jun 3, 2008 6:19 PM MDT up reply actions  

It's just too bad...

TD was realatively healthy his entire career except for the migrane. It’s almost too bizarre to be coincidence that our greatest RB came onto the scene making a huge tackle and left making that tackle on the Griese INT.

"On the Plains of Hesitation bleach the bones of countless millions, who, at the Dawn of Victory, sat down to wait, and waiting--died!" - George W. Cecil

by Bronco Billy on Jun 3, 2008 6:16 PM MDT up reply actions  

Just when I excorcized all of the Griese demons

I forgot that int basically was the beginning of the end of his career.
BTW about 3 months ago I saw a glimpse of TD in the Temecula Costco. He lives up there. You should see the community. Man it rivals all those places in Cherry Creek (when I was living in Denver) and Del Mar,CA

by broncfanstuckinsd on Jun 3, 2008 6:34 PM MDT up reply actions  

No "I told you so's from me", I am smart enough to realize that

I am wrong far more often than I am right. Although if I may be a little giddey now that Young is getting a shot at becoming “The Man” in Denver. Hopefully he has the ability to fill that role.

If God is not a Bronco fan, then WHY are sunsets Blue and Orange? - Jon Tollerud 5/22/08
The Quest ~ TSG 5/19/08

by Tim Lynch on Jun 2, 2008 5:30 PM MDT up reply actions  

My guess is #8 or #9 or a combination of the two.

I have never been that much against Henry. I thought he handled the drug deal well and i don’t think he was smoking. I think his injury was unfortunate last year. I thought by taking a pay cut he was going to came back this year ready to run over people, block, receive, or take tickets at the front gate. Whatever we needed he would do and give 100%. Something else happened.

What lies behind us and what lies before us are small matters compared to what lies within us. - Emerson

by firstfan on Jun 2, 2008 6:59 PM MDT up reply actions  

Yah, not enough nannies!

I heard that he had to stay home and babysit a bunch of youngsters. Oh well, it happens to the best of us!

BTW, I have Selvin Young rookie cards so I am hoping that he capitalizes on this opportunity and really shines. Gotta go, grad school is killing my bloglife!

by Arctic Bronco on Jun 2, 2008 9:41 PM MDT up reply actions  

FirstFan

We agree 100%. Something happened, and it’s looking more and more like not showing up to training was the issue. I supported Henry, but I’ll always support Coach the most.

"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe

by Steve Nichols on Jun 3, 2008 1:11 PM MDT up reply actions  

What a waste!

What lies behind us and what lies before us are small matters compared to what lies within us. - Emerson

by firstfan on Jun 3, 2008 6:22 PM MDT up reply actions  

td

keep in mind, it was lepsis who accidentally ended td’s career on the griese pick, falling on top of him at the end of the play. this was when matt was at rt, and i hated the guy at the time. he had 4 false starts in a row against sd, and was beaten quite a bit early on in his career . growing pains, i guess, and he made up for it later in his career, and was a very good left tackle for us. it was a freak injury, but td did have serious knee injuries in college to both of them, i recall. that rarely seems to be mentioned, or has been forgotten, but it was a major reason, along with little playing time as a backup and being undersized, that td slid in the draft. i just wonder if he was more susceptible to something like that, with previous knee problems and perhaps overruse, which may have increased the severity of that injury. i knew i always had in the back of my mind that he was an injury risk coming out of college, and he may not have a long career. i don’t know, it may not have mattered the way it went down, i’m not a doctor, but we didn’t take a chance on him until the 6th round, remember

by davecheffy on Jun 4, 2008 12:29 PM MDT reply actions  

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