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Around SBN: Bob Sapp Denies Throwing Fights

NFL Personal Conduct Policy Vague Yet Clear

There has been a lot of talk about Brandon Marshall's situation and what "rights" the League has. To put this issue to bed, at least until there is a decision by the League on Marshall's status, below is an excerpt from the 2008 Personal Conduct Policy. It is a short, rather easy read, especially for a document that yields so much power. It is also very vague, yet clear and succinct. Specifically focus on the first paragraph under Standard of Conduct.  It spells out, very clearly, what is expected of employees of the NFL and explains that those expectations are "considerably higher" than most people.  Take the time to read it, then leave your thoughts...

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You rock, Guru

This is exactly what I was looking for, documentation of the policy. I think the policy is very clear, “don’t jump off the cliff nor get to close to its edge or you may get whacked.”

I still contend the NFL will face criticisms when they mete out various punishments. For example, Marshawn Lynch gets off free and clear (though definitely warned), whereas-let’s just say for argument’s sake-Brandon Marshall gets suspended for 4-8 games. How will teams with players that get “perceived” harsher penalties respond? I’m curious to see how this plays out.

All that to say, I’m very pleased the NFL is trying to take this stuff seriously (unlike the NBA).

Again, great post and great topic.

I wish Woody Paige was our coach!

by bcfunk on Jul 29, 2008 8:16 AM MDT reply actions  

with Marshawn Lynch

the District Attorney pled this case down—Marshawn did not plead guilty to a felony hit-n-run he pleaded down for a lesser crime , therefore the nfl looked at this situation and talked to him , and in my opinion , he has gotten his warning., whether we think it is fair or not.

by okiebroncosfan on Jul 29, 2008 10:12 AM MDT up reply actions  

Do you think a TEAM

would ever go to bat for a player that it felt was unfairly punished? From what I have seen, the NFL seems to be 100% supportive of everything Goodell does, for better or for worse, while contention only seems to brew from the Player’sUnion angle, which is looking for new leadership anyway…

I wonder what chance there is that the new leadership will be in Goodell’s corner as well?

Mountains, forest, sea: these render man fierce, but yet do not destroy the man.

by Jeremy Bolander on Jul 29, 2008 11:54 AM MDT up reply actions  

It can become...

A P.R. nightmare. The Conduct Policy is written in a way that draws lines – On one side are those that have the best interests of the League at heart. If you’re on the other you “must not care” about the League.

Like Donald Fehr and steroid testing, no one wants to be the guy that implies personal conduct is not important or shouldn’t be “watched”.

-TSG

www.milehighreport.com

by John Bena on Jul 29, 2008 11:57 AM MDT up reply actions  

Our own Broncos did it.

Shanahan was fined for going to bat for Henry. Of course, the following year Henry repaid Shanahan by not showing up to practices.

"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe

by Steve Nichols on Jul 30, 2008 1:48 PM MDT up reply actions  

Looks pretty clear cut to me. The final standard is the most iffy in that it can be interpreted VERY broadly. At the same time it gives the NFL a chance to adjust to the current level of tolerance in society at large or to focus on areas that aren’t problems now but could become that in the future. I suppose there is a slippery slope there in that a player doing something that might be objectionable to people in general but not illegal (say cross-dressing or swinging) that might result in bad publicity for the NFL could be suspended. At the same time I believe this sort of policy is pretty standard for most corporations. IBM can can you for making them look bad the same as the NFL does.

As far as rights go, those primarily relate to people’s relationship with the government or to areas where the government can legitimately step in as arbiter and usually don’t fit in employer/employee relationships.

by jaffe28 on Jul 29, 2008 8:40 AM MDT reply actions  

Thanks, Guru

Today’s news left me confused – Lynch is involved in a hit and run, leaves the scene and a woman is injured. I would have thought that to be ‘conduct that imposes inherent danger to the safety and well-being of another person’, yet no discipline was imposed by Goddell. (If I have these facts wrong, please forgive and correct me).

Marshall may have violated this policy as well, but I am left wondering how even the implementation of discipline has been. Some help here? I’m strongly in favor of maintaining a higher standard fo rthe players than the NFL has had in the past – I just want there to be a clear interpretation of the statute above and an even approach to the degree of discipline imposed.

Think where man's glory most begins and ends,
And let me say my glory was I had such friends
-Yeats-

by Doc Bear on Jul 29, 2008 10:08 AM MDT reply actions  

The only thing about Lynch....

is he reached a plea deal to which he plead quily to a simple traffic violation—

“Goodell based his decision on the fact that Lynch eventually agreed to plead guilty to a traffic violation, which is not a violation of the NFL’s personal conduct policy. Lynch initially faced more serious charges.”

I think the NFL, in a weird way looks at it like a parent with kids. Sure, you’ll be in trouble if you tell me the truth, but lie and you’ll get it twice as bad.

Marshall’s situation, for better or worse, is going to be decided based on a pattern of behavior….Until there is a decision we really can’t compare.

-TSG

www.milehighreport.com

by John Bena on Jul 29, 2008 10:14 AM MDT up reply actions  

Convictions & Plea deals the same

I do not buy the argument that because Lynch got a plea deal for a simple traffic violation, that the hit and run was not considered. A plea deal is no different than a conviction, or non-conviction. And the Conduct Policy clearly states that it does not matter whether a player is convicted or not. Therefore legal outcomes in general are not the final sway. The fact is from a distance, Lynch endangered the safety of a public citizen with the “hit and run.” It does not matter according to the Conduct Policy whether or not the law charged him with “hit and run.” So once again, from a distance, it appears he really got lucky to not be suspended.

However, I think the final decision though is usually made on information the Commissioner acquires, which we are not privy to. Based on their own investigation, he must have determined that (1) the “hit and run” was never a real safety danger for the citizen, and (2) Lynch really did not know or he had hit the person, and (3) this is the first trouble Lynch has had so he gave him the benefit of the doubt.

That is why it is unfair for any of us to continually speculate whether someone is guilty or deserving of punishment. There is usually information from private investigation work, which sways the decisions.

Marshall is unquestionably guilty of tso traffic citations. Notice, though, there is no mention of traffic violations in the Conduct Policy. The real question to be sorted out by the Comish is the validity of all the charges involving his ex-girlfriend. He has to take into account that Georgia law is different, and a little strange, from other states, where anyone, simply by making a statement to the police, can issue a charge. In most states, the police investigate to determine if a charge is warranted. In Georgia, anyone can make a charge, then the police investigate to determine if charges should be continued or pressed, or dropped. It has to help Marshall that (1) None of the charges have been continued, and (2) there is written evidence (by virtue of letter) of the ex-girlfriend’s attempt to blackmail Marshall. So it may come down to a credibility issue. I believe that is why Rod Smith attended with Marshall to the meeting, to testify that he along with others believe Marshall is a good kid, who simply go overly extended in a bad relationship.

But really who knows? None of us do. That’s why all of these stories and debates are senseless, and really unfair to the player, coach, and team. These debates, and constant questions to the players & coach, unfairly distract the team. Even after the Commish makes his decision, he will not explain why he made his decision the way he did. We can all speculate again, or we can just trust in the likelihood that the Commish is privy to more information than we are. That is usually the case, whether it be the law, the courts, or the Commish. It is there job to find out confidential information pertinent to the facts, which sway a final decision.

If we are true Bronco fans, we hope for the best, but we let it be, and we do not become part of the distraction to our beloved Broncos, by fueling the non-stop articles and questions to the team.

by The Gun Young on Jul 29, 2008 11:03 AM MDT reply actions  

I disagree...

And please, point out in any story here where judgment has been passed at Brandon Marshall. All I have done in stories relating to Marshall is present the facts as we know them, and give an opinion. That’s what a blog is, and that is what I do. Where I feel MHR is different than other places around the web, specifically the MSM sites, is anyone can differ from my opinion and state their own without fear of getting flamed, or worrying about being “new”, or what someone with a higher post count will think. That is why MHR is a postive haven for Broncos fans. That does not mean I will not be critical when I feel the best interests of the team, the organization and the players are being looked out for, by anyone – fans, reporters and players.

I have said, both here and on the podcast that Brandon Marshall is guilty of one thing – making bad decisions. I felt that way after he put his hand through an entertainment center. He has a very important role and responsibility to the team I care for and “cover” on a daily basis and when I feel he isn’t taking that role and responsibility seriously I WILL CALL HIM OUT. I did then. As for any of the police incidents, again, B-Marsh is guilty of making bad decisions. Whether is is the women he associates with, or when he gets behind the wheel of a car, who he gets into verbal altercations with in night-clubs or the way he “plays around” with his family.

MHR has become a trusted news source for Broncos fans. I, as will all the other contributors, will continue to report news that involve Denver Broncos. I’ll reiterate, no one here passed judgment and no one here implied that the latest non-story changed anything within the Marshall situation. It is what it is. The main contention I had were the comments flying around that questioned what the NFL can and cannot do. I posted a portion of the conduct policy to show people exactly how vague, yet crystal clear the policy is.

As or Marshawn Lynch, You can decide not to buy the argument all you want, read Goodell’s quote. He plead guilty to a traffic violation. A minor one at that. For whatever reason, the prosecutor didn’t feel they could prosecute the case. Blame him if you think Lynch got off easy. It’s no different then Marcus Thomas getting “off” when he was pulled over in a car and police found drugs. The NFL just doesn’t suspend based on a singular incident when the facts are unknown or unprovable. That all changes when there are multiple occurrences, a pattern of behavior. What we all don;t know, and I agree with you on this point, is whether the NFL feels, when all these “incidents” are tallied they fall under the “Conduct detrimental to the NFL”. No one here has said it does/should and only Goodell can make that call.

Lastly, the implication that if we discuss this story we are not “true Broncos fans” is completely wrong. if people want to question my thoughts on the roster, fine. If people want to question my take on wins, losses, players, etc. fine. I will not sit by and have people question my “fanaticism” of the Denver Broncos. I hold the Broncos to a higher standard and have high expectations BECAUSE I am such a fan. I will not turn the other cheek when I feel someone who wears the horse on their helmet is not taking that role and responsibility as seriously as I think they should. Anything less would be a disappointment to me as a fan.

MHR does not have an agenda, does not need to sell papers, does not need to create controversy. If Brandon Marshall, or any other player for that matter, wants to avoid this type of publicity, stop making bad decisions. Go to work, go home, study, get better. What Jay Cutler does, what Champ Bailey does, what the TEAM LEADERS DO! I want Brandon Marshall to be a team leader. Hopefully the commissioner makes a decision soon, regardless of how it falls, and when he does I will report it, give my opinion on it, and move on to the season. With B-Marsh or without him, I am a Denver Broncos fan, first and foremost and will always hold the best interests of the Organization near and dear. That is the goal of the site and I think we are doing a damn good job.

-TSG

www.milehighreport.com

by John Bena on Jul 29, 2008 11:34 AM MDT up reply actions   1 recs

Amen!

"It's all over Fat Man"

- Tom Jackson to John Madden 1977 AFC Championship Game

by DesertBroncoFan on Jul 29, 2008 4:24 PM MDT up reply actions  

Plus

Marhsall isnt guilty of anything, yet. He may never found guilty of anything either

by broncfanstuckinsd on Jul 29, 2008 11:50 AM MDT reply actions  

Reporters do not deliver consequences

My beef is with the media as a whole, who have blown this story out of proportion, and thus have become as much if not more responsible for the camp and team distractions, as Marshall himself. The fact that these facts (as incomplete a summary of the whole story as they may be) were reported in the first place is not unreasonable. The fact that they are re-hashed every week , every day, for months is undefendable.

I do not think you said this (although it was implied), but I have read it explicitly by other reporters, that they think it is their responsibility and power to deliver consequences to deserving players (via all this negative publicity). Well that is horsecrapola. Yes, as fans, we want to know about these situations. And we appreciate the chance to blog about them. But we do not appreciate the non-stop, over-blown, sensationalistic, vendetta tone, these stories have taken. I mean what if the guy is innocent of all the abuse allegations? What if that was your son?

Reporters can not be the delivers of consequences, they can not even fully judge players, because they are not privy to all the information. You said you do not judge, but you also said:

"I hold the Broncos to a higher standard and have high expectations BECAUSE I am such a fan. I will not turn the other cheek when I feel someone who wears the horse on their helmet is not taking that role and responsibility as seriously as I think they should."
What does "I will not turn the other cheek" mean?  You will punish or judge?  Man, the league and the law will hand out punishment, as they should, as they have all the facts.

Yes, as fans, we all have a right to be upset with a player who make our teams look bad, and which may distract or hurt the team. But what is ironic about this whole issue, is that by virtue of Marshall’s situation now becoming fixated on by the media non-stop (to which MHR as now become a part of), the media itself and the reporters involved have caused as much if not more of a distraction to the team as anything else. I believe the media should also be held to a higher standard, especially when it is a site promoted as a fan of the team. Marshall will get whats coming. Until then, why can’t the media quit distracting the team about it?

by The Gun Young on Jul 29, 2008 12:06 PM MDT reply actions  

the type formatting error

that occurred there is a bug that crops up from time to time. It seems to occur when quotes are used to lead off a new paragraph, but it is horribly inconsistent, and has cropped up where no quotes were used at all, anywhere.

Hopefully sbnation (who coded the core tools of this site) will figure it out someday, and get it fixed.

Mountains, forest, sea: these render man fierce, but yet do not destroy the man.

by Jeremy Bolander on Jul 29, 2008 1:05 PM MDT up reply actions  

Gun,

I surely hope you didn’t find anything positive or negative in the post I wrote. I layed out was was reported, and my comments on the issue were absolutely neutral. When I was going to bat for Henry I was still willing to report his shortcomings. I was one of the last members to hold out for Walker until his final spit in the face against our team. But I still reported all the news, pro and con, and gave my opinions. In the case of Marshall, I’ve had mixed feelings depending on the incident. Taken as a whole, I have no strong opinion one way or the other. I challenge anyone to read my post and to point out where I am sticking up for Marshall, or advocating a position against him.

I think a lot of people who support Marshall’s behavior over the last few years might think that any report about misconduct on his part is some kind of media smear. At the same time, covering up such news because “it is a distraction” is favoring the player and irresponsible too. In the end, I made the easy decision to just report what is out there so we can have all of the facts. Bear did a great job with “my facts” by reporting in more detail what the facts of each police call really where, and because of the open discussion our members are better informed. If our members know more than the main stream media sites and news coverage, our site has done our members a service.

Some folks take a side, and are against Marshall. Some folks take a side, and favor Marshall. My opinion is clear. I no longer am willing to make excuses for a guy with a long track record of mistakes, so I’m not for him. At the same time, he hasn’t risen to the level (in my opinion) of me advocating him being booted either, so I’m not against him. However, as Guru says, this is a blog. If and when a member does put up an opinion then that is great. The rules are just to be respectful of those opinions. But in my case, the only opinion I offered was one of nuetrality. That will end when the commissioner’s decision come’s down.

Riding the fence somewhat, I feel really good placing my trust in the commissioner to settle the matter. If Marshall gets off free, I’m happy for his chance to straighten up and for the team to get him as a player for the games he’s in. If he gets suspended, I’m happy that we have a good group of receivers who stay out of trouble and are willing to play ball for the team, and I’ll hope Marshall learns a lesson. It’s a no lose proposition. I’m for the Broncos to move on, with or without Marshall, and to win some ballgames.

"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe

by Steve Nichols on Jul 29, 2008 1:15 PM MDT up reply actions  

Messed up blog

I messed up that last blog. Half my point somehow got deleted before posted. I guess it is a sign that if have said enough. I have certainly had enough of this whole issue. It is your site, and I do appreciate all the other articles at MHR, so you can have the last word.

by The Gun Young on Jul 29, 2008 12:10 PM MDT reply actions  

No need for the last word...

I understand what you are getting at. I do. There is no vendetta here. No attempt to judge or convict. I am just not one of those people that pretends things don’t exist until due process takes it course. I wanted no part of Travis Henry after the ‘False positive” test, because it pissed me off that he had put the Broncos in that situation. Innocent, guilty, victim, whatever, my beef with all of this is B-Marsh, by the decisions he has made, has put the organization in a negative light. as a fan, that pisses me off. As for any punishment, we’ll all wait and see and I’ll react to it when it happens.

Just remember, unlike the people that get paid to write for the papers, with no personal interest in the team or its success, we are on the same side. We both want the same thing. The Broncos to win, to succeed. that is what makes MHR different.

-TSG

www.milehighreport.com

by John Bena on Jul 29, 2008 12:20 PM MDT up reply actions  

I have to say

that I honestly feel like it was lessons learned in the Henry case that have moved me to where I am personally in the BMarsh case. For me that really is what this is all about, I supported Henry after one false positive too many, and he burned me, and I had to watch the whole team get burned too, when they didn’t have a fighting chance to prioritize RB in the draft or free agency (if that is what they would have chosen to do, we will never know, of course). Part of the reason I come to this blog to hash it out is that I don’t want to make the opposite error and wash my hands completely of bmarsh before it is warranted, either.

It is an ugly situation, but I am secure and content in knowing that the Broncos can survive without him, and that knowledge comes from the members of this site that take their time to look at certain issues (say, our WR depth) in a certain way (from the angle of a suspended Marshall, perhaps).

The “MHR difference” when applied to this particular situation, should serve to keep us enamored of the big picture, namely the condition of the Broncos, and all our hopes as fans going forward in 2008.

Mountains, forest, sea: these render man fierce, but yet do not destroy the man.

by Jeremy Bolander on Jul 29, 2008 1:02 PM MDT up reply actions  

Off the journalistic ethic issue for a moment...

...and on to Xs and Os, I believe that losing Marshall for some games is obvioulsy a loss. However, the loss is so mitigated by our depth at WR and TE that I don’t believe it will show up much. I’ll even go a step further…

I wouldn’t doubt that the outragous number of WRs we have on the roster weren’t put there just because we lost Walker. I suspect our wise head coach suspected that we needed insurance with a potentialy unstable Marshall. I really think we can ride out the storm if we lose Marshall for a few games. Depending on the League decision, I may devote a University post to adjustments the team can make with Jackson and Colbert (and perhaps Royal and Parker as well) joining Stokley.

"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe

by Steve Nichols on Jul 29, 2008 1:20 PM MDT up reply actions  

Losing Marshall will make it tougher on everyone.

If Marshall has the type of season that we’re all expecting then he should be consistantly drawing double coverage; obviously making life easier on everyone else. Without him, everyones’ job is tougher. Obviously we can be good without him…but we are much better with him. With the difficulty in the first half of the season and the fact that we will probably be playing for a wildcard spot, making each and every game very important, we really need him in the roster. I appreciate your optimism… but Marshall is an important component of this team.

by UnarmingMermaid on Jul 29, 2008 1:31 PM MDT up reply actions  

Marshall

Will be an important component of this team
1. when he quits bringing distraction to the TEAM
2. when he stays out of trouble so the league doesn’t have to look at suspension
3. when he just flat out “gets it ”
4. when his on-field performance is in the papers instead of his off-field issues

B. Marsh has so much talent and he could do so much good for this TEAM if he tried (and he is trying now ) that some of us are a little skeptical and are hoping we dont get slapped in the face while we are waiting for B. Marsh’s transformation like we did while waiting on Henry’s changes to happen .
And with the number of bad choices he has made in the past , we have that right . I for 1 know that B. Marsh has to earn my loyalty and trust again , and he can if he just follows through with his promises to change.
If he doesn’t – we move on and I still will cheer , scream and applaud my Broncos every sunday until I die….. Go BRONCOS !

by okiebroncosfan on Jul 29, 2008 5:39 PM MDT reply actions  

In fairness to #15

I dont think he has been a distration by his current actions. What I mean is he has been quiet (excpet the ticket) and out of the news. But you get some drudge ripoff trying to make a name for themselves and digging up old crap.
Now I agree with most of what you have said.Actually almost all of it, my only contention is for once he is not the cause of all this media attention with recent actions. Its sad when the denver media has to resort to this kind of crap to sell papers

by broncfanstuckinsd on Jul 29, 2008 6:42 PM MDT up reply actions  

agreed

he HAS been good so far and I hope that trend continues ( I really do ) for the teams sake and I hate seeing so much opportunity thrown away by anyone
We ( Denver Broncos fans ) will be with you and we will support you IF you continue on the road you started down…...PLEASE no more speed bumps!!!! lol

by okiebroncosfan on Jul 29, 2008 7:12 PM MDT reply actions  

Nice Guru.

That conduct policy is exactly what was needed here with everything going on with B.Marsh. It is well stated and as Guru has stated on his show several times, NFL playes are held to higher standards as stated in the policy. I totally agree with the policy and feel something needs to be done to Marshall in order for him to “get it”. What that will be, if any, we don’t know…....just have to wait and see.

It pisses me off when NFL players with all the talent in the world are getting paid very well to play a sport that most men would love to do. Some people blame the media for blowing things out of proportion, however if players would act like role models and leaders then the media would have nothing to report.

by weazel on Jul 29, 2008 9:46 PM MDT reply actions  

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