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Chalk Talk - Green Bay Packers @ Denver Broncos - Preseason Game #3

Packersatbroncos_medium

      Your game prep for 2008 Pre-Season Game #3

This is a fascinating game to watch in terms of clashes of styles.  Denver runs the Zone Block scheme so well that they are considered the godfathers of the scheme (even if it didn't truly start with us).  GB runs the scheme too, but not as well.  In fact, last year was very tough for their run game.

On the other hand, last year Denver ran the Man Contain system on defense and it was a miserable failure.  Green Bay has run it for awhile, and has the people to run it well.

In the West Coast Offense, a legend has retired, uhm, moved away from Green Bay.  In Denver's West Coast Offense, a new star is rising.

The two teams are at once on a similar, yet different path.  The same systems, with differing results on both sides of the ball.  A legend goes away for one team, but arrives for another.

Let's take a closer look.  Read on...

Star-divide

First, a very big and special "thank you" to Sirsam (MHR's resident staff artist) for designing the awesome logo for Chalk Talk.  It was done within hours of the request and is perfect.  I had considered calling him back and telling him that "with Hoosierteacher" might be a little egotistical for me, but then I realized that it strokes my ego very nicely, thank you very much.  : )

Again, as with last week, I'm treating this game as a regular season game.  Preseason games are difficult to prep, because players being used, the lengths of their usage, and even the playcalling is not desingned to win a game.  It is all desingned to train and examine individuals.

I'm also going to spend more time on what to watch for in terms of style issues.  While a particular style, approach, or system may match up well or poorly against another team, this doesn't mean one team is "better".  During the season, I will add a lot more about player match-ups that will make the difference.  For example, while a certain team may be a poor match-up in terms of scheme match-ups, that team may be better coached and have more elite players.  I won't get that detailed for the pre-season.  Consider the preseason "Chalk Talks" an appetizer for things to come in the regular season, where we will get a lot more meat.  This is a brief "sampler platter" if you will.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Without going into personnel in detail, let me show you how I compared the two team last year, and how I compare them going into this year.  Bear in mind that a changed grade doesn't mean that one team got better at a position while the other went down.  Rather, in some cases, a team may have improved more than the other team improved, or worsened more that the other team worsened.

Last Year                                                                                          This Year

1. QBs - GB (not as much as people might think though)       Den

2. RBs - DEN                                                                                    Den

3. FBs - DEN                                                                                     Den

4. TEs - DEN                                                                                     Den

5. WRs - even (without Walker)                                                     Den

5. O-Line - DEN                                                                                Den

6. DEs - even                                                                                    even

7. DTs - GB                                                                                       GB

8. MLB - DEN                                                                                   GB

9. OLBs - DEN                                                                                 even

10. CBs - DEN                                                                                 Den

11. Safeties - DEN                                                                          Den

12. Coaching - DEN                                                                       Den

13. K and P - DEN                                                                          even

14. Return - GB                                                                               even

15. Coverage Teams - even                                                         Den

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Running Game

Denver "Zone Block (One Cut)" vs. Green Bay "Run Contain"

The run contain is a very good system for challenging the zone block of Denver.  If all things where even (players), the run contain would be a good match for GB.  Runs to the outside should be vectored to the inside, where GB's LBs are effective.  The 2 gap system used by the GB DTs is also more effective against our run game than the one gaps we eat for lunch.

How does Denver adjust?  If Denver's pass game (West Coast Offense) is effective and can spread the defense horizontaly, the one cuts to the center will work much better.  While Aldridge is a favorite to reach the sideline, this may not be the team for that approach (given their emphasis on containing the edges).  Instead, look for Denver to use a lot of passes to TEs.  The GB OLBs and SAFs are not prototypical "TE stoppers", so Denver might want to go this route.

Green Bay "Zone Block (various runner types)" vs. Denver "Show Blitz"

Here again, all things being equal (which they aren't), the GB system should wreak havoc on Denver.  But the GB system of Zone Blocking hasn't had the success that it has had in Denver.  While a Zone Block O-Line should destroy a one gap defensive line, last year's GB team had a rough time with the run, and had to rely on the passing game and a solid defense.

On the other hand, Denver may or may not have solved the DT problem.  Thomas comes back (improved?), and we picked up DRob (improvement?).  Out draft pick is already out with an injury.  We are improved vastly at WILL, have declined at MLB (but by how much), and SAM is still a question mark.  I like for GB to keep in their FB, and not to use a lot of two TE sets.  They should challenge our run defense early and often.

In summary, I give the edge to Denver in running the ball (despite the scheme match-up) because of a combination of personnel and scheme experience.  GB and Denver come off of weak seasons (Denver's run defense / GB's run offense), and I would call this even except that GB's run was set up by Favre's passing (now absent).  I like Rodgers, and think he will improve.  But he's not there yet, at least not enough to support the run game with his passing.

Green Bay West Coast Offense vs. Denver Show Blitz

Scheme-wise this is a draw.  Personnel-wise, it favors Denver heavily.  GB has good receivers in depth, but is going to be growing a new QB.  Bailey, Bly, Paymah, and Foxworth can hold their own against even the best, and the safeties (while not supermen) are improved over last year.  The Show Blitz system can rattle even an elite QB (it has caused Brady and Manning problems), so Rodgers could have problems (if this was a regular season game and we are running it).  But the passes are short, and high percentage.  With enough pass protection, Rodger's may have some surprises for Denver.  I just don't see it against any starters.

Denver West Coast Offense vs. Green Bay Run Contain

GB is expected to blitz more this year.  Last year they would pair a MLB with an OLB for the blitz (rarely, if ever, 2 OLBs).  This year they are blitzing more in camp, which doesn't fit the typical run contain system.  I expect the MLB to man on our RB, or (rarely) to blitz with an OLB.  The OLBs will likely contain the run, or they'll play zone on pass.  GB is a tough, physical team on defense, and may not use the DL to protect the LBs as much as other teams might (because of confidence in the LB's ability to shed blocks).

Denver's TEs are a great match against GBs OLB and SAFs.  While Denver has great WRs in depth, GB has a very decent CB group.  Denver may be better served by trying a few two TE sets to maximize the mismatches, even though Culter may have good targets with Marshall, Royal, and Scheffler.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Keys to the game:

Denver

  1. Limit interceptions.  GB's strength on defense is a run stopping front seven and a solid secondary.  Cutler can limit interceptions if he has the time to set up.  If he's taking hits, Shanahan will have to pull him out.
  2. Protect Cutler (see number 1)
  3. Pressure Rodgers.

Green Bay

  1. Establish the run and control the clock.  Denver's run defense isn't established fully yet.  A good running game keeps Cutler off the field and demoralizes Denver, play after play.
  2. Take away the edges of the field.  This stops Aldridge from stretching the field with sweeps, stops Cutler from bootlegs, and keeps the offense in the center of the field (where GB's big seven can make an impact).
  3. The LBs must "stay at home".  If they get chewed on misdirections (pass or run), it will be a long night for GB.

ESPN

  1. Shut your freaking mouths about Favre.  He's not here tonight, the game is in Denver, and you have young and upcoming star QBs to discuss if you can pull your heads out and finaly watch a game (instead of talking over it with Mrs. Favre).  Talk about the game on the field!
  2. See 1.
  3. See 1.

Note: GB got buried last week.  They need a win to gain some confidence.  They also need some time to pass after the Favre reversals to gell as a team.  Rodgers must have gone through a lot being in doubt as to whether his team had his back or not.  Denver proved themselves against a solid and physical team, and have good momentum going into this week.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Those are just my opinions, and not as solid as the regular season.  I'm sure there is a lot of good analysis out there by our very knowledgable members.  What do you guys think?  Where do you agree?  What have I missed?  Where am I outright wrong?

Take it easy, and Go Broncos!

HT

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Comments

Display:

It's funny, Green Bay went 13-3 yet Denver outclassed them at the majority

of the individual positions. Which goes to show how much more important it is to play as a team rather than as an individual. Last year we sucked as a team, but this year we’re looking more like a cohesive unit built around a team mentality. 13-3 is not out of the question.

If God is not a Bronco fan, then WHY are sunsets Blue and Orange? - Jon Tollerud 5/22/08

I got a high ankle sprain in college and it still hurts! ~ TSG 8/13/08

by Tim Lynch on Aug 21, 2008 10:28 AM MDT reply actions   0 recs

Excellent, excellent point Zappa

If it was one thing I took away from my week in Denver and watching three practices and one game is that Denver is playing as a team this year. I also believe this team has a great deal of character. When I get a moment I will put up a post with my reasons for these opinions. Great post HT. Thanks.

What lies behind us and what lies before us are small matters compared to what lies within us. - Emerson

by firstfan on Aug 21, 2008 2:09 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Cant' wait!

If God is not a Bronco fan, then WHY are sunsets Blue and Orange? - Jon Tollerud 5/22/08

I got a high ankle sprain in college and it still hurts! ~ TSG 8/13/08

by Tim Lynch on Aug 21, 2008 3:26 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

IMO Dallas has a better front 7

and our young offensive line did very well against them , that being said , I think we will be okay on offense , it is time for our defense to step up and take control of a game .

I was watching “hard knocks” on HBO and I saw some things that disturbed me a little bit about our defense . I know Foxworth was to play off of TO but he was playing off of #80 the TE as well ??? and allowed him to catch a TD and # 80 was blocking our DT’s and DE’s anywhere he wanted them to go , especially # 96 , and he made it look too easy . He will probably make their 53 man roster , but he is still a 2nd or 3rd string TE ,

I love our Team but I really need to see the defense step up this week and make a statement , especially against a QB who has not done much this preseason at all , and a defense that allowed the 49ers offense to embarass them . Our offense is better than GB or 49ers , and I know DJ , EK , Champ . and the other leaders on D will bring it , but I want to see the HEART of our defense and if the defense plays as a Team

by okiebroncosfan on Aug 21, 2008 11:12 AM MDT reply actions   0 recs

ESPN?

I hadn’t seen any info about this game being broadcast on ESPN. HT, are you sure this is true?

by tunga77 on Aug 21, 2008 11:55 AM MDT reply actions   0 recs

I'm not getting it until Midnight Monday

on NFLN :-(

Although, I think HT was thinking more of last year’s Favre-love-fest on MNF.

"It's all over Fat Man" - Tom Jackson to John Madden 1977 AFC Championship Game

"I wouldn't say he's nowhere near T.O." - Pacman Jones on Brandon Marshall

"I love your analysis of our team. Its kinda like watching a spider monkey trying to figure out a jar of peanuts.. you know whats going on.. you know whats in there, but to actually figure it out, is just a bit beyond your mental skills..."
- Bronco Dano from DP Comments

by DesertBroncoFan on Aug 21, 2008 12:06 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Come to MHR during the game, I'll hook you up with a link to watch the game.

the internet is the last true bastion of freedom and liberty.

If God is not a Bronco fan, then WHY are sunsets Blue and Orange? - Jon Tollerud 5/22/08

I got a high ankle sprain in college and it still hurts! ~ TSG 8/13/08

by Tim Lynch on Aug 21, 2008 12:29 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

yea...

SOPCast or TVU right? I haven’t set that up yet, but was going to for this game…

by tunga77 on Aug 21, 2008 12:31 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

No, there is another place that so far hasn't needed any downloads....

:) I keep the information secret until game night…I am surprised the guy running the broadcast hasn’t been utterly destroyed by the NFL yet…

If God is not a Bronco fan, then WHY are sunsets Blue and Orange? - Jon Tollerud 5/22/08

I got a high ankle sprain in college and it still hurts! ~ TSG 8/13/08

by Tim Lynch on Aug 21, 2008 1:06 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

It'll be in the game thread. ;)

I won’t get home from work until right before the game, but I’ll be here. Hopefully the dude is still live. (crossing fingers) two weeks in a row so far…giggity giggity!

If God is not a Bronco fan, then WHY are sunsets Blue and Orange? - Jon Tollerud 5/22/08

I got a high ankle sprain in college and it still hurts! ~ TSG 8/13/08

by Tim Lynch on Aug 21, 2008 1:54 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Perhaps you can respond to requests via group e-mail.

I’m not sure that you want to put that info on the site. We don’t want to publicize anything that gets a site shut down where folks can watch a game.

"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe

by Steve Nichols on Aug 21, 2008 5:06 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Hey, they shouldn't be breaking the law anyway.

It doesn’t mean we can’t all benefit from it while it lasts. If all else fails, we use SopCast…the NFL can’t stop live broadcasts in other countries being proliferated over the internet. At least until until they (along with every other major media company) lobbies Congress to successfully curtail Internet freedom. Which is probably only a year or two away from happening…

For now, us out of staters at least get to watch our favorite team! In my neck of the woods it is ALWAYS, Faders or 49ers….uhg!

If God is not a Bronco fan, then WHY are sunsets Blue and Orange? - Jon Tollerud 5/22/08

I got a high ankle sprain in college and it still hurts! ~ TSG 8/13/08

by Tim Lynch on Aug 21, 2008 5:20 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Thanks

I did that for the game against Houston and it worked out pretty well.

It’s local from Denver, correct? That way we don’t have to put up with the Green Bay announcers like we did last week with the cowgirls announcers constantly talking about their new stadium…

If nothing else, I guess I can get the video from justin.tv and the audio from KOA.

"It's all over Fat Man" - Tom Jackson to John Madden 1977 AFC Championship Game

"I wouldn't say he's nowhere near T.O." - Pacman Jones on Brandon Marshall

"I love your analysis of our team. Its kinda like watching a spider monkey trying to figure out a jar of peanuts.. you know whats going on.. you know whats in there, but to actually figure it out, is just a bit beyond your mental skills..."
- Bronco Dano from DP Comments

by DesertBroncoFan on Aug 21, 2008 2:00 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

You can get the video and audio from justin.tv

You just blew my secret. :P

If God is not a Bronco fan, then WHY are sunsets Blue and Orange? - Jon Tollerud 5/22/08

I got a high ankle sprain in college and it still hurts! ~ TSG 8/13/08

by Tim Lynch on Aug 21, 2008 3:26 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Sorry...

"It's all over Fat Man" - Tom Jackson to John Madden 1977 AFC Championship Game

"I wouldn't say he's nowhere near T.O." - Pacman Jones on Brandon Marshall

"I love your analysis of our team. Its kinda like watching a spider monkey trying to figure out a jar of peanuts.. you know whats going on.. you know whats in there, but to actually figure it out, is just a bit beyond your mental skills..."
- Bronco Dano from DP Comments

by DesertBroncoFan on Aug 21, 2008 3:33 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

ok that's what i thought...

Just wanted to make sure, b/c I’d obviously prefer to watch it in HD than on my crappy laptop monitor! =/

by tunga77 on Aug 21, 2008 12:30 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Correct.

Not an ESPN MNF game. Thanks for the catch.

"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe

by Steve Nichols on Aug 21, 2008 5:44 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

NFLN is replaying at midnight tonight

even though my DirecTV guide says it’s the Packers/Whiners game from last week.

The NFLN website says that it is indeed the Packers/Broncos. I’ll probably be in on the Internet broadcast, but will probably try to stay up to watch the game at 9pm here on the High Desert.

"It's all over Fat Man" - Tom Jackson to John Madden 1977 AFC Championship Game

"I wouldn't say he's nowhere near T.O." - Pacman Jones on Brandon Marshall

"I love your analysis of our team. Its kinda like watching a spider monkey trying to figure out a jar of peanuts.. you know whats going on.. you know whats in there, but to actually figure it out, is just a bit beyond your mental skills..."
- Bronco Dano from DP Comments

by DesertBroncoFan on Aug 22, 2008 5:55 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

oh btw

solid read… it may be preseason, but methinks you are in regular season form already. ;)

by tunga77 on Aug 21, 2008 11:56 AM MDT reply actions   0 recs

Not at all.

This is a very short version, and lacks some detail. It will be far easier to research and prepare for a regular game where both teams actually run the systems and we know the depth charts going in.

If you like it now, wait until the main course! And thanks for the props!

"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe

by Steve Nichols on Aug 21, 2008 5:08 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

i get to see it live friday night.....

fader nation is a conquered nation

The creator of the following names:

conquered fader nation
Phyllis and his merry men

by mdierk on Aug 21, 2008 12:47 PM MDT reply actions   0 recs

I'm flagging this post as offensive. lol j/k ;)

If God is not a Bronco fan, then WHY are sunsets Blue and Orange? - Jon Tollerud 5/22/08

I got a high ankle sprain in college and it still hurts! ~ TSG 8/13/08

by Tim Lynch on Aug 21, 2008 1:07 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

GB's interior OL

I’m told by a Packer fan that the interior of GB’s OL is weak (OTs aren’t), which probably should affect their running game as well as other areas. I don’t know that we can blame their OL for the amount of sacks in the Niner game since Rogers clearly held the ball too long as he went through his checkdowns, but it will be an interesting area to watch during the game. It should provide the Bronco’s DL an opportunity to demonstrate some inside pressure.

RE: Alridge. Reports diverge on whether he will play, but some of the sources clearly aren’t well informed, so…….. His injury didn’t appear to be serious at the time, it was the timing, right before the Dallas game, that seems to have prevented him from playing. I’ll definitely be looking for some signs of how he fits into the Bronco offense, although I doubt that Shanny will want to reveal too much, especially if he sees a role for him. The ‘tell’ should be whether Alridge is used as a conventional RB or in a more specialized way — which could indicate that the Broncos are shaping their playbook to take advantage of his unique abilities.

by Colinski on Aug 21, 2008 1:00 PM MDT reply actions   0 recs

I have no idea on Aldridge.

Fwiw, I like him as a situational RB, but he doesn’t fit against the GB scheme so much (in my opinion). Against most 4-3s (however), I think he would do great to the outside.

I agree with your Packer friend that the Packer OL looks a little weak.

"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe

by Steve Nichols on Aug 21, 2008 5:11 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

The only area that I disagree on...

is K and P.

They are clearly better than us in that area.

We don’t know who our punter is and our kicker is 1 for 4 in NFL games that count.

Crosby? ‘nuff said!!! (Why didn’t we get him? That still irks me!).

by UnarmingMermaid on Aug 21, 2008 1:23 PM MDT reply actions   0 recs

My thoughts.

They weren’t very good last year (the GB k and p), and we were somewhat better at K, but terrible at P. I have seen a lot of good out of our K and P so far, while I think GB remains poor. We’re not so much better that I’m giving us the edge (I’m calling it even), but I disagree that they are clearly better.

However, this is very much an opinion issue, and I could certainly be wrong.

"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe

by Steve Nichols on Aug 21, 2008 5:15 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

My only thought:

The Broncos need to show that they won’t play flat against a team that they should outclass.

If it were a late-season game, GB might be more their equal. But Denver has had a much more cohesive offseason and the team chemistry part hasn’t had a chance to settle in GB. Denver should be a more put-together team, and they should play like it. If they play lazy, I’ll be worried about them all season long. If they play hard and effectively, I’ll feel better.

by Hooper on Aug 21, 2008 2:24 PM MDT reply actions   0 recs

HT, I got this premonition.

Somebody, somewhere is going to recognize what a great job you do and steal you from us. That would be great for you but bad for MHR’ers.

Another fabulous job!

If this be Hell, let us make the most of it!

by Trinidad Jack on Aug 21, 2008 2:30 PM MDT reply actions   0 recs

Bronco fans are good at keeping secrets.

comes from decades of crazy Al trying to figure out what we’re doing over here. Why else would he sign all of our rejects to multi-million dollar contracts? ;)

If God is not a Bronco fan, then WHY are sunsets Blue and Orange? - Jon Tollerud 5/22/08

I got a high ankle sprain in college and it still hurts! ~ TSG 8/13/08

by Tim Lynch on Aug 21, 2008 3:28 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

I meant batting .000.

Typed too fast and forgot to check my spelling.

by weazel on Aug 21, 2008 3:37 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

You're right both times!

LOL

If this be Hell, let us make the most of it!

by Trinidad Jack on Aug 21, 2008 4:05 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Thanks so much.

My solemn vow:

If someone offered me a paying job doing journalism, I would likely take it. I would not stop my favorite hobbies, one of which is my love for my MHR family. As long as Guru want’s me, I shall remain at his leisure, and continue to write for MHR.

"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe

by Steve Nichols on Aug 21, 2008 5:18 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Shame on you Jack!

For even thinking such thoughts!

What lies behind us and what lies before us are small matters compared to what lies within us. - Emerson

by firstfan on Aug 21, 2008 2:57 PM MDT reply actions   0 recs

I know.

If you could see me you’d see my face is red with shame.

If this be Hell, let us make the most of it!

by Trinidad Jack on Aug 21, 2008 4:06 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Even if I move on to a paying job writing,

I would not abandon my MHR family. I wrote (a little bit up thread) that I am here to stay as long as Guru wants me. I love all of you guys (even Zappa, who thinks my avatar looks like a hot chick, even though it is a coat of arms).

"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe

by Steve Nichols on Aug 21, 2008 5:20 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Here is my Coat of Arms

If God is not a Bronco fan, then WHY are sunsets Blue and Orange? - Jon Tollerud 5/22/08

I got a high ankle sprain in college and it still hurts! ~ TSG 8/13/08

by Tim Lynch on Aug 21, 2008 5:28 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Way!

I’m not sending my knights out to fight yours! Very nice! : )

"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe

by Steve Nichols on Aug 21, 2008 5:29 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

I thank my Irish Catholic wife every day for re-introducing me to my

Irish heritage. Although, I am truly a mut in the American sense…I am only Irish by a slim majority over a large hodge podge of European ethnicities. In fact, my wife and i have a long standing joke. She is black Irish, which means she has dark hair and dark eyes due to the fact that her family line was never conquered by the Vikings way back in the day. My family line was, however, raped and pillaged by the Vikings which means I have light eyes and light hair color. The joke is, the Vikings finally infiltrated her family after a 1000 years. lol ;) In the end, my Viking heritage wins. muhahahhaha!

If God is not a Bronco fan, then WHY are sunsets Blue and Orange? - Jon Tollerud 5/22/08

I got a high ankle sprain in college and it still hurts! ~ TSG 8/13/08

by Tim Lynch on Aug 21, 2008 5:32 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

yes. I am a dork...it's allowed once you tie the knot of marriage.

If God is not a Bronco fan, then WHY are sunsets Blue and Orange? - Jon Tollerud 5/22/08

I got a high ankle sprain in college and it still hurts! ~ TSG 8/13/08

by Tim Lynch on Aug 21, 2008 5:36 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

lol, same

After being married of almost 6 years, I play more video games than I ever did back in high school / college … and I use lol-speak IRL sometimes.

by tunga77 on Aug 22, 2008 8:09 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

But just think

what a great honor it would be that HT was nationally known from his posts at the best Bronco site anywhere

by broncfanstuckinsd on Aug 21, 2008 3:44 PM MDT reply actions   0 recs

That is true.

But I’d rather have HT than the glory. Of course, if we could have both, that would be best.

If this be Hell, let us make the most of it!

by Trinidad Jack on Aug 21, 2008 4:07 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

What in the world

have you done to I25 going through the middle of Trinidad? The whole thing is dismantled!

What lies behind us and what lies before us are small matters compared to what lies within us. - Emerson

by firstfan on Aug 21, 2008 4:50 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Sorry about I-25.

That’s t.a.b.o.r. (de-emphasis added), the so called tax payers bill of rights, a misnomer if ever there was one. I’ve talked to some of the crew working the reconstruction and they are buying houses here because they plan to be here for many more years. Because of t.a.b.o.r., we have some of the worst roads and the lowest paid faculty in the nation, to name just a few of the horrible impacts on the Colorado economy.

Don’t get me started.

If this be Hell, let us make the most of it!

by Trinidad Jack on Aug 22, 2008 5:03 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

i thought t.a.b.o.r. were good for the taxpayers....

I’d like one in California. Damn spending is off the hook by these politicians! Instead of finding ways to cut spending to close the $20 BILLION budget deficit, both sides of the isle are trying to work out a way to RAISE TAXES.

Pigs in a Trough! They overspent during the good times, now rather than tighten their belts like us regular people have to do during bad times…they want to swindle more money out of us.

I guess an extreme one way or in another is bad all around. In Colorado you got an extreme going in the other direction…believe me, it can be just as bad when it swings in the other direction. :(

If God is not a Bronco fan, then WHY are sunsets Blue and Orange? - Jon Tollerud 5/22/08

I got a high ankle sprain in college and it still hurts! ~ TSG 8/13/08

by Tim Lynch on Aug 22, 2008 5:12 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

well thsts YOUR

Govenator and the tax and spend Dems at work here in Cali. I have found out that the Dems here love the word TAX, Plus when they do get into congress they quit paying their mortgage and then want congress to bail them out, or be like shcumer and release memos that help a bank to fail. (Whats ur opinion on that, I know how much yo LOVE bankers)

by broncfanstuckinsd on Aug 23, 2008 12:10 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

I am starting to beleive that both parties love the words "spend".

At least the dems try to pay for their spending…republicans just run up deficits. lol I am not a fan of either though…Constitution Party from this point forward. To hell with the whole rotten bunch.

“A Plague on both your houses!”

:)

If God is not a Bronco fan, then WHY are sunsets Blue and Orange? - Jon Tollerud 5/22/08

I got a high ankle sprain in college and it still hurts! ~ TSG 8/13/08

by Tim Lynch on Aug 24, 2008 9:43 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Zappa quotes Mercutio...

…and I agree.

In fact, I also agree with his other comment supra. During hard times gov’t should consider cutting back, not spending us deep into the red, USUALLY.

I think the problem with ta.b.o.r. is that it is inflexible and part of the state constitution. To correct unanticipated negative effects requires an constitutional amendment. As somebodty said, it goes too far the other way. It has ripped the guts out of secondary education, especially the community college system, which has always given taxpayers the best bang for their buck.

go into the red

If this be Hell, let us make the most of it!

by Trinidad Jack on Aug 25, 2008 1:38 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Scratch the last "go into the red" phrase.

If this be Hell, let us make the most of it!

by Trinidad Jack on Aug 25, 2008 1:40 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Why doesn't the state legislature do what Congress does in Washington...

if you don’t like what is in the Constitution, ignore it and pretend it doesn’t exist. Seems to be the way things are going nowadays anyway ;/

If God is not a Bronco fan, then WHY are sunsets Blue and Orange? - Jon Tollerud 5/22/08

I got a high ankle sprain in college and it still hurts! ~ TSG 8/13/08

by Tim Lynch on Aug 25, 2008 4:54 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Hey!

I am a republican but more importantly I am a conservative, you know pay your bills, kind of republican. I think once you get out of cali you will see the other side. Down with Liberals! R or D doesn’t matter!

" He goes against Champ everyday." -Jay Cutler

Davis to the Hall!

by Jon Tollerud on Aug 25, 2008 4:12 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

It's too bad both R and D represent Big Government Spending and

Curtailing of Civil Liberties.

If God is not a Bronco fan, then WHY are sunsets Blue and Orange? - Jon Tollerud 5/22/08

I got a high ankle sprain in college and it still hurts! ~ TSG 8/13/08

by Tim Lynch on Aug 25, 2008 4:54 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

SO lets kick em all out and institue Anarchy???

Whatever man just make my dollar worth something and keep My freedom to shoot people who attack me!

" He goes against Champ everyday." -Jay Cutler

Davis to the Hall!

by Jon Tollerud on Aug 25, 2008 5:28 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Sometimes I'm tempted.

Both big gov’t and big business have proven time and time again that they cannot be trusted to play fair without close supervision.

If this be Hell, let us make the most of it!

by Trinidad Jack on Aug 26, 2008 1:01 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Good news.

FIrst, MHR (and even HT) gets recognition from time to time at SI and ESPN.

More importantly, we have many great writers. I look up to Styg’s mastery of the art of writing, Guru’s leadership and the work he puts into stories (including elite level interviews), the “all in one” news work of our very own Mdierk, and the terrific series (the team history work was priceless) of Zappa.

Even more important, it is members like you who write and comment and provide the real meat of the site. The staff puts up stories on the front page to keep things moving along, and perhaps to provide ideas for the members. But members like you make the stories so much better by discussing things in the comments sections, and by writing wonderful posts as well.

In short, I’m grateful for the praise. But the real praise belongs to members like yourself. As for what little I do, it is only a small part of what so many other wonderful staff members do.

"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe

by Steve Nichols on Aug 21, 2008 5:28 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

PS - regarding your new graphic

I love the one that was made for Broncos history. Skillful to say the least.

If God is not a Bronco fan, then WHY are sunsets Blue and Orange? - Jon Tollerud 5/22/08

I got a high ankle sprain in college and it still hurts! ~ TSG 8/13/08

by Tim Lynch on Aug 21, 2008 4:04 PM MDT reply actions   0 recs

sirsam

is an awsome talent.

What lies behind us and what lies before us are small matters compared to what lies within us. - Emerson

by firstfan on Aug 21, 2008 4:53 PM MDT reply actions   0 recs

Good Preview HT.

I know we are all hoping to see improved running out of the Broncos. So the match up should be an interesting challenge, with their strong DTs and run contain system.

Also, I have read that Graham will not play. So it will be an even greater challenge, as our run scheme relies heavily on a good blocking TE, and I do not believe Jackson is getting it done in the blocking department. I did not see Scheffler blocking as much last week, so I am not sure if he has improved or not. I will be interested in seeing this Brett Pierce kid, and I am wondering about Mustard. Is he playing yet? If not he may not make the club, from sitting too much in the tub.

by The Gun Young on Aug 21, 2008 5:31 PM MDT reply actions   0 recs

Good thoughts all!

Everyone loves the receiving TE, until you realize that an excellent blocking TE like Graham is essential too!

Jackson is not a great blocker, and Scheff is still improving in that department. Mustard (in my opinion) is a good blend, but leans towards blocking. I don’t know Mustard’s status.

This should be a terrific challenge for our run game (as you point out).

"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe

by Steve Nichols on Aug 21, 2008 5:43 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

I saw your question

about TEs in the other thread, but I will address it here. Thankfully my computer is up and running again, so I don’t have to type on a little laptop…

I haven’t compiled the TE data yet, but from reading through the logs, Jackson has been an effective blocker, both by himself and opposite Graham. Graham, of course, has been effective, but I don’t think anybody should be waiting for the day when he breaks out in the passing game. I would say that Jackson, as of this moment, is the most well rounded TE on the roster: he is fast, can catch and is a decent blocker. Graham is a 6th olineman right now, and scheffler looks very raw. Scheffler got, by far, the most blocking reps in the game, and he desperately needs them. He is a below average blocker, and it is affecting his route running when he tries to beat press coverage at the line. Mustard didn’t get any reps vs. dallas.

Pierce is very interesting. He is a better blocker already than scheffler, and he releases well off the line.

Tomorrow night is the real TE evaluation. We will know who our starters are then. Right now it is Graham/Jackson with Scheff and Pierce neck and neck…

Mountains, forest, sea: these render man fierce, but yet do not destroy the man.

by Jeremy Bolander on Aug 21, 2008 6:06 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Wow!

A rare Styg / HT disagreement! I would take Mustard over Jackson, and think Mustard is more well rounded. However, it is worth noting that I’m in the minority. I believe that Guru himself favors your view.

"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe

by Steve Nichols on Aug 21, 2008 7:01 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

I agree with you HT.

I did not chart the whole game against Dallas, but the possessions I think were most important, were possessions 3-5, after we already scored twice and Dallas was pissed off. They started bringing 5 on the pass rush often during these possessions, and they played some cover two man under coverage. On these possessions I re-ran the plays repeatedly on my DVR, and while I could not make out the TE number on each play, most of the time it was Jackson. And I will tell you what, he got blown up in the run game.

Like I said in the other thread, on a lot of these plays the TE was responsible for blocking down on a DT or DE, which seems like a mismatch, but it is expected for blocking TEs in Denver’s scheme (like Graham or Mustard). Jackson alone was responsible for 2 or 3 run plays getting stuffed. I’m glad we have Jackson, but he is purely a pass catching TE.

We really need a second true blocking TE (Mustard or Pierce) on the roster in case Graham gets hurt and to use for power running in the red zone. If Shanny agrees with Styg that Jackson is a an adequate blocker, then he will probably only keep 3 TEs (other than that long snapper-Leach). But I think you will see them keep a fourth TE (either Mustard or Pierce). The Greenbay will also indicate a lot.

by The Gun Young on Aug 21, 2008 8:13 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

ANOTHER GOOD JOB AGAIN HT

You never quit, and we MHR participants, appreciate that! Thank you again for the research and taking the time to give the valued insites that we all love to wrap our minds around. If I were to negate your “theories”, regarding this game, I would be way out of line due to the fact that I totally agree with the “theory”.

However, “THE X FACTOR!”

Jay Cutler. Done deal! OH! Isn’t that what you were saying? The “KIDS” are on stage? Thanx Man

by metalman5050 on Aug 21, 2008 6:38 PM MDT reply actions   0 recs

I hate to predict outcomes.

And I really, really hate to do it in preseason. I mean REALLY!

But I feel Denver would beat GB in the regular season this year. Hands down.

"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe

by Steve Nichols on Aug 21, 2008 7:03 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

HERE IS WHAT I KNOW FOR SURE

I see how the team has performed, as a team, in all of the prelim stuff.

I cannot help but be impressed by the cohesiveness of the group as a whole!

What is wrong with this team, that will keep it from competing for the title?

It all comes down to who stays healthy!

by metalman5050 on Aug 21, 2008 7:31 PM MDT reply actions   0 recs

HEY

I look at the people who have been “side lined, "not playing or practicing {Nalen, etc.}”, and I see what will actually take place on the first snapp of the first REAL game.

I just can’t wait!

by metalman5050 on Aug 21, 2008 8:01 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

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