NPLB Defensive Personnel Reports Preseason Game 2 -- LBs
A Mix of Good and Bad
The thing about our 'backers going forward, is that Bob Slowik, our new defensive head-honcho, will have to make a few choices.
He will have to choose between versatility, provided by some players to our nickle coverages, and comprehension, players with a grasp of the playbook. He will have to choose between a guy who makes his tackles, but who hesitates, and a guy who never hesitates, but always misses his tackles. He will be choosing between tangible size and intangible heart.
In the end, he will be choosing between the future, and now. If he chooses now, we might get off to a hot start with our linebacking corp. They will be fast and powerful, but with time, they will be exposed. If he chooses the future we may fail to gain purchase in the early goings of the season, sacrificing early momentum for the hope that eventually sound technique and consistency will win out, but by then it may be too late.
Or, he may choose to balance both ideas on the edge of a razor, which could cut either way, or neither. Or, if handled incorrectly, as our defense has been for the past several years, it could cut both ways.
Lets look at the players poised on this thinnest of edges amongst the Broncos' hopeful, and see what case they have made for their future.
My early vote for our starting MLB, Niko has had his ups and downs. The NPLB analysis points out that he can help this team if he is on the field, especially when it comes to stopping the run. He shows tremendous instincts when he gets into the garbage around the line, and sometimes you are left to wonder just HOW he managed to slice through and get his hands on the tackler. The other solid trait that he brings is his tackling. Whether he is a hard hitter is still up in the air, and for my money, a starting MLB better be able to lay some wood when he gets the chance. But in every other respect his tackling is exactly what you should hold a MLB too. It is sure and consistent, and it is a breath of fresh air to see the SAM take out a FB with Niko right behind him. It gives me a confidence that I haven't felt since Al manned the middle.
But Niko had his share of mistakes so far in the preseason, including misreading his gaps, and worst of all, playing tentatively. You see it on the (very few) blitzes that get called, where he looks slow and uncertain, two things he isn't, judging by his physical displays on special teams. You also see it when he is reading playaction. He has a knack for staying at home and not overcommitting, and he definitely reads 90% or better of his plays very well, but sometimes his patience borders hesitation, and you are left to watch him choosing a proper angle for pursuit rather than seeing a tackle for a loss.
He seems to be getting his guys into a good position, and though DJ has more familiarity with Webster, he and Niko are getting the plays in and the guys lined up. When Niko was in with the starters I saw only a handful of instances where players seemed unsure on their assignments, and those were nickle formations, where Niko isn't normally in. Niko has seen only 3 reps in the nickle so far this preseason, and he was able to hold his own, though he was brought on a blitz one of those times, and showed his tentative side, unable to effectively penetrate to the QB after hesitating near the line. In goalline situations he led the second team LBs to an above average overall performance against Green Bay, and if he had lined his guys up a yard closer to the LOS, Rodgers wouldn't have gotten through on his sneak. That Niko laid back a little is a telling sign that he needed more room within which to read the play, something that only experience can change.
Above all, however, Niko is fundamentally a sound player, still adjusting to the speed with which he must read, register and react to the offense. He executes so consistently that there is no drop off whether he is in with the starters or second teamers, and he is the only LB, including DJ not to receive the lowest grade on at least one play. In the end he grades out as one of the top backers because he never follows a bad play with another bad play, or a worse one. I can't say when he will pick up all the nuances and be able to change games, but I can say that he won't hurt this team if he is on the field. Is that good enough Broncos fans?
Overpursuit has almost become a cliche statement when it comes to Webster. One of the most fiery, amped up players on the roster, his enthusiasm would be a boon to his teammates on the field, a constant source of energy and the vitriolic shock that is sometimes needed. But that same enthusiasm leads to his #1 most critical flaw: he is constantly getting himself out of position like a youngster in need of ritalin.
In the Green Bay game he missed 3 tackles by leaving his feet completely. There is only one position from which a tackler has any reason to leave his feet to make the tackle and that is when he is in pursuit from behind or beside. Nate left his while in FRONT of the ball carrier. The reason for this isn't that he is going for a big hit, which may be an excusable, if not acceptable, rationale. The reason is that Webster-cliche, overpursuit. When he overruns the play, as he is wont to do, he gets out of position for even an attempt at a sound tackle. The result is a last second lunge, in the general direction of the ball carrier. Sometimes such a move will come close, sometimes it won't, but it will sure as hell never be a tackle. This is a major risk to have on the field for the defense. A fundamentally unsound risk that jeapordizes any defensive philosophy.
Overpursuit haunts him when he is reading his gaps as well, something which he doesn't seem to have the best grasp of yet, either. When a blocker gets his hands on you and you have overpursued the gap, it is no matter at all to continue to redirect you right out of the play. When Webster was in with the backups, this was more evident, with the gaps being much more difficult to maintain. He wasn't much help.
Against Green Bay, after Webster had missed his third tackle, Denver went exclusively to nickel and dime formations for the remainder of the starting defense's time on the field. Webster is not a standard nickel contributor. While it is the preseason, and there may be many things that Denver was looking to see in making the decision to pull Webster for the remainder of the game, my guess is pretty simple and straightforward: they had seen enough.
DJ is the Broncos only every down backer. As the chosen "microphone" helmeted player, he really has little choice, though his record over four season certainly warrants confidence. But so far in the preseason I have been a little disappointed in what I perceive to be a lack of effort on his part. I don't think for an instant that that is what is occurring here, but I do believe that there is no time like the present to establish the momentum that will carry you forward. Right now DJ, while technically sound, seems almost too laid-back. Part of that may come from his familiarity with his weakside position, which he has slipped on like an old boot, and I fully expect that boot to start kicking some serious tail down the line. But more significantly, I think he has been told by his coaches that he is going to be reserved throughout the preseason, and as a result, he reserves himself a bit as he plays. He doesn't burn himself out pursuing plays from behind that are obviously going nowhere, and he doesn't close from a distance with his trademark speed and ferocity. In fact, to scout him now, I would say he is a slow player, something that I KNOW isn't true.
One thing is certain, and that is that DJ is not currently being optimized to the best of his ability. He was brought on a blitz on only one play so far, and he was only half-hearted on that attempt. For all intents and purposes DJ is being kept under wraps, and I expect to see him unleashed in oakland to get this year off to a good start. But for now we can only watch and wait, and hope that the Broncos intend to use him the way we have always dreamed of him being used: to wreak havoc on opposing offenses.
Winborn has been given starting SAM duties in the absence of Boss, and to be perfectly honest, my concern over Boss' backup situation has been assuaged. Winborn is certainly up to the task.
He has been showing good patience, getting quality reads on plays and not overcommitting or biting on playaction. Like Webster and Niko, his best plays have come when stopping the run, though he shares Niko's preponderence for letting his patience morph into hesitancy. Particularly evident on blitzes, Winborn was brought several times, from inside and outside, and he simply wasn't quick enough to be disruptive, and could be easily redirected in his rush, a sign of not being fully committed to his angle. He did however show a great ability to take on blockers in rushing lanes, and created some ideal situations for the following backers.
An area that Winborn needs to work on to be more effective at SAM, is not looking into the backfield as much as he does. On the first play from scrimmage Rodgers made an easy completion and got some easy YAC because Winborn had gotten peeled off the route by running into the official. Trying to keep up with the play by watching the QB is something that all raw players will do, and Winborn is certainly new to the SAM responsibilities, at least with Denver. But only players with Champ's vision and feel for the defensive backfield can do it consistently without getting burned or tripped up. Winborn has a decent feel for the underneath zones that he is responsible for, but ends up peeking whenever he moves laterally back across the play, or roughly half the time. He was given numerous reps in the nickle with DJ, and as the Green Bay game progressed he looked better and better in coverage. I never saw him in man on a TE, but rather zone, as far as I can tell, so it remains to be seen how he may be exploited, but unlike Boss, Jamie is a player who should perform much better in a zone.
As of now, Winborn is an effective backup to Boss at SAM, with little dropoff in runsupport, but leaving something to be desired in the passing game. The misread gaps, unfortunately, is something that I don't really think time will heal with Jamie, though his ability to meet his zone obligations is something I do expect to improve. In the meantime, we have an option if we lose Boss, and that matters.
It may not come as a surprise to MHR faithful, but Woodyard is climbing the ranks of our LB corp and forcing this team to consider him seriously in terms of retaining a quality backup. In Woodyard's case, he is backing up DJ, and in two preseason gmaes he has shown the tenacity and tackling ability that got so many people onto his bandwagon. he consistently turns in an above average performance, doing a little bit more, for a little bit longer, with a little bit more energy than everyone else around him. Against Dallas he showed some versatility as a blitzer, being one of the TRUE blitzing threats that the Broncos have shown this preseason, with speed and power. He was also given limited nickle reps against Dallas, and made a strong showing in coverage against Green Bay. The defensive gameplan has showcased his lateral ability, the best among our backers, outside of DJ, and he looks to be putting the "stiff hips" issue behind him.
He is moving well in garbage, something that he always had the vision to do, but now he is slipping around bigger faster players, and some might even say that he is doing it better than he did in college. While it remains to be seen how consistent he would be against first teamers, there is no doubt he has been growing and learning since arriving in Denver.
Right now he is at his best against the run, showing flashes in his ability to get through garbage and find the ball. That sort of football "nose" is a tremendous intangible and just one of many reasons to be excited about Woodyard. I was also impressed with how clean he keeps his feet and legs: even when fighting through trash he is protecting himself, no doubt the secret to his success at Kentucky. That he can display the vigor in pursuit and tackling that he does, yet still reserve patience and balance to keep himself in a play, is a great sign for his future.
If there is one concern for Woodyard it is that he plays behind DJ, who is about to begin a stint as a perrennial probowler. Denver will be at the maximum of their ingenuity and creativity trying to find ways to get him involved. What he brings can change games.
One of three backups we are trying at SAM, we will probably end up choosing between Beck and Green. To date, Green has the pedigree, while Beck has found himself the victim of circumstance. I think he is making a great case for himself in the Broncos preseason, however.
Denver gave him the second half reps against Dallas, and he did well. In run support, he was awesome, as his +25 above indicates. He is not that caliber of a player in terms of consistency, but he was able to produce in very limited reps, a key for a guy trying to make the roster. He didn't look raw at all, showing some seasoning in his ability to read gaps and penetrate the line. He is one of our bigger backs, and lives up to the notion that the bigger guys should be able to get off of blocks easier. He is a solid tackler, and shows flashes of being a heavy hitter. Against the run, he will be quite an asset going forward.
But his coaches will have to weigh his only adequate performance in zone coverage, and decide how much of a liability that may be in the AFC West. He proved ineffective on limited blitz and nickle reps, a sign that he is unsure of his responsibilities, and while he will probably not bring a lot of undue harm to the Broncos in limited play, at his current level he would only provide a stopgap. My best guess, and this is in now way definitive, is that he will be of limited effectiveness if he is asked to do short term relief of a player. I expect him to be a more viable option when he is put into a game with an opportunity to help establish dominance over the run, thus putting him in an advantaged position, or allowing Denver to run primarily nickle once his work is finished.
Thinking about Jordan's shortcomings at this early juncture, reminds me of my concern for the Broncos going into 2008. I can't help but think that this will be a team that has difficulty hanging onto leads, and I worry about our depth down the line when it comes to bringing in guys who can bring some good pass defense to the table. The backers are a part of that problem.
Green has made a solid case for himself after only limited practice reps this offseason. His strongest trait is definitely his consistency across the board. He also showed good awareness on an interior blitz, creating a good QB pressure and forcing an errant throw. He was adequate in limited nickle reps and he has past experience as a backup, so there is some seasoning on this player.
By playing up more than he played down he turned in one of the best LB performances of this preseason. Like Niko he never let his performance slip below a certain level, though he also didn't show the flashes you are looking for that indicate star potential. He would be a short term answer, with limited upside, but would make a solid roster choice in 2008.
He fights off blocks well, and most of his better plays involved shedding blocks to disrupt the running lane or to make tackles. He does seem to get hung up in trash around the line, though he had a good showing on the goalline with Woodyard and Niko. Of all of his down plays, they were along the lines of misreading gaps or biting on playaction. His recognition obviously needs work, and this is a strong symptom of limited reps with his teammates in practice.
The coaches will end up having to choose between Beck and Green more than likely, or they will have to sacrifice depth elsewhere. Both players have made great cases and will get a final preseason game to put themselves in a good spot. It should be a good contest, and I will be looking to see which player brings the "will" to compete with more ferocity and desire. Because that is the one that is going to make this roster.
The Dallas game treated us to a glimpse of our deep MLB depth, with Larsen closing out the game. After what I saw there, I am looking forward to whatever time he manages to get against Arizona.
I can't speak for his recognition, but he did seem to have a good feel for the gap responsibilities, and of getting his guys into position. He got pushed around a little at the point of attack, and he showed some hesitancy, but he was noticeably "un-raw", that is to say, he looked like a player who needed some work in the filmroom, but his technique was generally sound. In a pinch, this kid could play with the pros.
In a way, it could be a bad thing that he looks to have a little polish to him--those players are traditionally sniped from practice squads early. Based on his work against Arizona, we will probably get a better idea of how he would fare if he went to waivers. Of course, if he sees limited reps there it could mean a couple of things: first, of course, could be the intense battle ahead of Larsen for the starting MLB spot, though that has been decided in my mind. Webster brings a fundamentally dangerous problem into the game, and it isn't the kind of thing he can turn off and on at will. Niko should be the starter. The other thing limited reps for Larsen could mean is that Denver doesn't wnat him on too many radars, and neither do I, so that is all I'm gonna say about it for now. ;)
4 recs |
67 comments
Comments
Once again,
Great Job! I, too, believe Niko should be starting, even though he does need to continue to build his comfort level. The real downside to this is that we play all 3 of our AFC West rivals in the first 4 games of the season, and the first half of the schedule looks to be pretty tough. If Niko, and the Broncs, hesitate too much, too long, the season may be done by the halfway point.
Too bad there isn’t enough data on Boss to give him a reasonable scorecard to campare with the others.
I’m sure Larson’s development at LB was delayed somewhat by tinkering with him at FB in camp. Let’s hope he clears waivers and survives long enough on the PS to develop into a real contributer.
by BornOrange on Aug 25, 2008 12:33 AM MDT reply actions 0 recs
Larsen's development
really seems to be coming along. I agree that splitting time as a FB isn’t going to put him on the fasttrack to compete against Niko or anything, but he acquires a ton of value in the process, and seems to be making progress in his “true” discipline, linebacking. In fact, his progress makes me want to pose a question to the crew:
Would you be comfortable with Larsen as the main backup behind Niko?
Mountains, forest, sea: these render man fierce, but yet do not destroy the man.
by Jeremy Bolander on Aug 25, 2008 4:29 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe not this year....but I think Spencer can make a strong case for exactly that in 2009.
If God is not a Bronco fan, then WHY are sunsets Blue and Orange? - Jon Tollerud 5/22/08
I got a high ankle sprain in college and it still hurts! ~ TSG 8/13/08
by Tim Lynch on Aug 25, 2008 4:51 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
So if we cut webster....
who do you see backing up Niko? Or are you just saying you wouldn’t be comfortable with that?
Mountains, forest, sea: these render man fierce, but yet do not destroy the man.
by Jeremy Bolander on Aug 25, 2008 4:55 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
I was speaking in the most general of terms really...
I think we keep Webster this year. Next year I would like to see Spencer fill the role as back up and we DRAFT A #1 pick from somewhere. lmao
I would also like to see Woodyard moved to SAM and have him learn the new position now since it is unlikely he will be able to subplant DJ anytime soon.
If God is not a Bronco fan, then WHY are sunsets Blue and Orange? - Jon Tollerud 5/22/08
I got a high ankle sprain in college and it still hurts! ~ TSG 8/13/08
by Tim Lynch on Aug 25, 2008 5:07 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think we cut webster and woodward and larsen sit as back up in all honesty!
" He goes against Champ everyday." -Jay Cutler
Davis to the Hall!
by Jon Tollerud on Aug 25, 2008 4:56 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
You really think we would cut Woodyard?
I have to be honest, I don’t see it happening.
Oh wait. Reread your sentence another way. Are you saying we cut webster, but keep both woodyard and larsen?
I would really like HT’s opinion on cutting webster…. a coach might see this a little different than a personnel guy, and there is no arguing how well versed webster is in what the Broncos are about to go do…
Mountains, forest, sea: these render man fierce, but yet do not destroy the man.
by Jeremy Bolander on Aug 25, 2008 5:06 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
I guess we see what happens today!
" He goes against Champ everyday." -Jay Cutler
Davis to the Hall!
by Jon Tollerud on Aug 25, 2008 5:26 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
I have to be honest. I don't know.
I’m troubled that a guy as experienced as Webster is isn’t tackling. If he was a pure blitzer, then it wouldn’t be an issue (he could disrupt the QB even if he didn’t bring him down). But even in a show blitz, the MLB is still supposed to be one of the main tacklers on running plays. My gut says to drop him. On the other hand, Shanny is starting him (at least for now), and Shanny has more football knowledge in his little finger (or thumb, for those of us hung up on the thumb discussion) than I do. I don’t see what I’m missing.
I still think Niko has more room to improve, and his mistakes are easier to address (hesitation). I give the edge to Niko to start, but Shanahan has to know something that I don’t.
"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe
by Steve Nichols on Aug 25, 2008 10:32 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
From What I Have Seen....
The first-team defense, as a group, plays better with Niko in the game. While Niko isn’t the pure athlete Webster is in the middle, he doesn’t have to be. Just be fundamentally sound, and put yourself in the right position to make tackles. Know the opponents offense as well as it knows itself.
I agree about Larson, but wasn’t extremely high on him coming out of Arizona. While I know they play two different positions, Woodyard has outplayed him and deserves a shot to stay. No matter what, the LB corps need to be upgraded heading into 2009.
Anyone care to give an early look at what the 2009 Draft Class at LB looks like?
-TSG
www.milehighreport.com
by John Bena on Aug 25, 2008 2:58 AM MDT reply actions 0 recs
I concur.
I’d like to see us keep Woodyard behind DJ, but maybe start teaching him to play SAM as well. It would be nice to have both DJ and Woodyard on the field at the same time in the future…2009 maybe. ;)
I think Larsen could provide solid long term depth at MLB and on special teams….since Niko and Webster are likely to be short term solutions which is essentially a long term need.
If God is not a Bronco fan, then WHY are sunsets Blue and Orange? - Jon Tollerud 5/22/08
I got a high ankle sprain in college and it still hurts! ~ TSG 8/13/08
by Tim Lynch on Aug 25, 2008 9:26 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
well
your Ohio team might give us a good player….
And I’m not talking about Laurinatis…
Mountains, forest, sea: these render man fierce, but yet do not destroy the man.
by Jeremy Bolander on Aug 25, 2008 4:30 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
DJ says....
What has me leaning towards Niko (well, aside from Webster’s ability to take himself out of a play) is that DJ said Niko was an advantage on the field and helped take leadership reponsibilities off his (DJ’s) shoulders. I read that as being DJ’s recommendation for Niko as the starter. And that’s good enough for me.
by GaryP on Aug 25, 2008 10:23 AM MDT reply actions 0 recs
Gracias
Mountains, forest, sea: these render man fierce, but yet do not destroy the man.
by Jeremy Bolander on Aug 25, 2008 4:33 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Great point!
I remember the article, and while it didn’t register at the the time as an endorsement, in hindsight I think he may have essentially been saying that he preferred a guy that let him “just be.”
DJ is the ultimate silent-assassin. The less talking he has to do the more effective he will be…
Mountains, forest, sea: these render man fierce, but yet do not destroy the man.
by Jeremy Bolander on Aug 25, 2008 4:33 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
DJ's nickname- "The Silent Assasin"
I think someone needs to get all teh nicknames sorted out and post em
Ten Tigers
Dark Horse
Torain Train
Silent Assasin
et al
" He goes against Champ everyday." -Jay Cutler
Davis to the Hall!
by Jon Tollerud on Aug 25, 2008 4:57 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well . . .
To me, the biggest factor between Nate and Niko is that Nate has essentially peaked, whereas Niko still has upside. We must not forget that Niko doesn’t have a lot of real time experience at MLB. Really, he is little more than a precocious rookie out there. In Seattle, he played STs and otherwise stood on the sidelines and watched someone else play defense.
Niko’s main problem so far has been a hesitation before making a play. All that says to me is that he is still thinking out there . . . borne of inexperience. That should disappear as he becomes more accustomed to the speed of the game and everything becomes more instinctive for him.
Niko will never be another Urlacker, most likely. But, as TSG and others have expressed, he doesn’t have to be. If he can give the Broncos solid, consistent play and plug holes for them, he has enough talent around him to take care of the rest.
IMHO.
Never pass up the opportunity to keep your mouth shut. - my daddy
by AZDynamics on Aug 25, 2008 12:15 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
Nate definitely seems to have peaked
he comes into camp in the best shape of his life, and yet he still can’t beat out unproven Niko.
The only downside to niko’s upside, is that it mihgt be an illusion. He really needs to play “quicker.” I’m with you in thinking recognition and experience will acheive just that, but we won’t know till we know.
At his current level, however, he doesn’t hurt the team, and that is good enough for now… Any delays in his development are really just fodder for the James and Ray debate….
Mountains, forest, sea: these render man fierce, but yet do not destroy the man.
by Jeremy Bolander on Aug 25, 2008 4:36 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Im still trying to grasp this
But how will Boss help out the LBing corp? I am disappointed to see Winborn and Dj with negative numbers. IS that indicative of spotty play, seeing since I have yet to see the Broncos play a game? Plus is it a little too much to read into Woodyards plus numbers because of the talent he is going against? I am all for k2 to start, never been a great big Webster fan, but I think he is adequate. But K2 IMO is better
by broncfanstuckinsd on Aug 25, 2008 12:22 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
My personal opinion
is that Boss and D.J. are blue-chippers and will prove it as the season wears on. That is why all Niko would have to be is a solid, consistent tackler and good at leadership, which D.J. says he is.
BTW, I mentioned elsewhere that Shanny every year seems to come up with a “shocker” cut or two. This
year, I would not be surprised to see Webster hitting the bricks. Consider: (1) He has peaked. He is not
going to get any better. (2) He does not play STs. If Niko beats him out, which is likely, he will become deadwood until and unless Niko goes down. (3) Winborn, Beck, Larsen, and especially Woodyard have
played lights out this preseason.
Somebody has to go. All factors considered, with STs one of the major ones, Webster sticks out in that regard, it would seem to me.
Never pass up the opportunity to keep your mouth shut. - my daddy
by AZDynamics on Aug 25, 2008 12:40 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
That would certainly shock me going into the season...but Shanny did it last year with Warren
Of course, it didn’t work out for the best last year…..
If God is not a Bronco fan, then WHY are sunsets Blue and Orange? - Jon Tollerud 5/22/08
I got a high ankle sprain in college and it still hurts! ~ TSG 8/13/08
by Tim Lynch on Aug 25, 2008 12:43 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Two moves that pissed me off
were the trade of Warren and cutting Hixon.
That may be the reason some coaches are gone . . .
Never pass up the opportunity to keep your mouth shut. - my daddy
by AZDynamics on Aug 25, 2008 2:00 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
I had always thought Warren was an overpaid lackey....until I saw what our run defense
was without him. $36 million doesn’t seem so bad to me anymore. lol
If God is not a Bronco fan, then WHY are sunsets Blue and Orange? - Jon Tollerud 5/22/08
I got a high ankle sprain in college and it still hurts! ~ TSG 8/13/08
by Tim Lynch on Aug 25, 2008 3:09 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Warren was indeed overpaid,
and he never did play up to his potential. But even a subpar Warren was better than anything else the Broncos had.
In my opinion, the Broncos should have sent Bates to Oakland and kept Warren. :(
Never pass up the opportunity to keep your mouth shut. - my daddy
by AZDynamics on Aug 25, 2008 4:31 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah but,....
where is he now and where will he be in a year or two when the Broncos are ready for a deep playoff run?
by Arctic Bronco on Aug 25, 2008 10:53 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Webster
has been playing special teams so far. Definitely in the green bay game. I will say that I have only scouted one special teams play, the first kickoff in dallas. This is a deficiency I hope to correct before the season gets underway…
Mountains, forest, sea: these render man fierce, but yet do not destroy the man.
by Jeremy Bolander on Aug 25, 2008 4:38 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think DJ might have been playing lazily during the preseason.
He might have become more concerned about staying injury free after the scares to Green and the injury to Boss. That happened in the first game…so who knows, maybe Shanny told DJ to take it easy out there. It’s not beyond the realm of possibility.
If God is not a Bronco fan, then WHY are sunsets Blue and Orange? - Jon Tollerud 5/22/08
I got a high ankle sprain in college and it still hurts! ~ TSG 8/13/08
by Tim Lynch on Aug 25, 2008 12:42 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
My thoughts.
One thing is certain, and that is that DJ is not currently being optimized to the best of his ability. He was brought on a blitz on only one play so far, and he was only half-hearted on that attempt. For all intents and purposes DJ is being kept under wraps, and I expect to see him unleashed in oakland to get this year off to a good start.
I agree with Styg here. Most of our system is predicated on how the LBs are used, and I think we are playing very vanilla with our group.
In fact, this article (by Styg) is the best look at how a team’s LBs are playing that I’ve ever read. Styg rocks!
"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe
by Steve Nichols on Aug 25, 2008 2:56 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Having you back him up certainly adds to his credibility! (not that he needed more than he already has!)
If God is not a Bronco fan, then WHY are sunsets Blue and Orange? - Jon Tollerud 5/22/08
I got a high ankle sprain in college and it still hurts! ~ TSG 8/13/08
by Tim Lynch on Aug 25, 2008 3:10 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
I can't thank HT enough
for all the time he has put into my education. And not just the university posts either.
Truly a gentleman and a scholar!
Mountains, forest, sea: these render man fierce, but yet do not destroy the man.
by Jeremy Bolander on Aug 25, 2008 4:59 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
I second that.
If God is not a Bronco fan, then WHY are sunsets Blue and Orange? - Jon Tollerud 5/22/08
I got a high ankle sprain in college and it still hurts! ~ TSG 8/13/08
by Tim Lynch on Aug 25, 2008 5:07 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, you're half right. : )
A real funny story:
When I was in high school, we had a project where we were supposed to interview a parent in front of the class. My step-father was a popular teacher at the school, and a lot of students without a parent would ask him to be interviewed. Anyway, I chose my mother.
My mother was a sharp cookie. Multiple graduate degrees, mulit-lingual, well travelled, etc. Not someone to mess with. As a young man, I was a big fan of William F. Buckley (debater par excellance) and his Firing Line show. So thinking I was being witty, I held a notpad in my lap, leaned far to the right, and in my best Bill Buckley voice started the interview with, “I should like to ask you, madam, if I undertand correctly; First, you are the mother of two very wonderful boys?”
A few of my buddies laughed. But then my mother shot back, “Well Mr. Buckley, that’s only half correct.”
The class exploded in howls of laughter, and I just sat there mortified. A champion debator, silenced by his mom. It was then that I understood where my dad was coming from.
"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe
by Steve Nichols on Aug 25, 2008 10:47 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
reply to bfsisd
Unfortuanately boss doesn’t have enough plays to be evaluated right now. I really want to include him because I would love to scout how he compares to Winborn right now (in terms of what value we got for him). I will say this about my “feeling” on the Boss situation: I think he is one of the keys to this team holding onto leads in games. Whether he is man or zone he is the best LB we have for covering the seam.
DJ and Winborns negative overalll ratings ARE disappointing, though I think DJs can safely be thrown out the window. I really believe the coaches don’t want to play their hand with him. Winborn however, is a spotty player who tends to have a bad play for evey good play, especially when he is dropping into coverage or coming up from a zone to make a stop, like on underneath throws. He looks much better and is more consistent helping with the runs. On the whole i expect every LB on the roster to have their score raised around 3-5 points, just by playing in Slowik’s blitz scheme (if indeed they do).
Feel free to get pumped about Woodyards score, and even Green’s and Beck’s. About 70% of a grade comes from things a player does that is wholly dependent on himself, not his opponent. Of the three, however, Woodyard is the guy who is grading just barely above average in terms of his technique and such, and who is grading WAY above average for his production. He can create even when he isn’t ina position to do so. Not every time, but enough times to make you sit up and rewind the play a few times. it is called “flashing” or “popping” and he has doing it. Consistently. There is very real talent in #59.
In contrast, Green and Beck are grading high for their technique, but only above average for production. All three are getting their production from second and third string opponents. A good to great player should be getting great production in that scenario, like Woodyard. The other two are looking like serviceable backups, possibly even above average backups, considering salary cap issues.
Mountains, forest, sea: these render man fierce, but yet do not destroy the man.
by Jeremy Bolander on Aug 25, 2008 4:51 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
well thank you
this is a cool thing you do and I do appreciate it. Do you think these ratings well actually reflect how good the player is or the type of season he has. Like the higher of a plus rating will actually show he’s having a great season. Or is this more a game to game tool?
by broncfanstuckinsd on Aug 25, 2008 5:10 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
I strongly believe
that the longer the analysis is carried out, the more accurate it will become. By the end of the season I expect this to be DEADEYE accurate. I only wish I had the resources to cover EVERY team! :)
From game to game, the rating will be pretty good analysis of starters. But I don’t know yet if the numbers can stand on their own on a per game basis without additional analysis. Which is fine. One thing that will definitely be possible is to spot trends: players fading and players stepping it up. i would love to get a read on a hot player just before he gets hot. That is part of the fun of watching for me. But executing “trending” means that I have to log the data differently than I do. It is a amatter of knowing in what way s I might want to recover the information. I need to work with a database manager or something.
Along these lines I am not planning on analyzing the Arizona game. I plan on using those two weeks to put the finishing touches on the data collection and logging processes. Once that is done I will put some thought into just where I am at with it, and if I need to scale it back any to keep up or if I can possibly add someting useful to it.
Mountains, forest, sea: these render man fierce, but yet do not destroy the man.
by Jeremy Bolander on Aug 25, 2008 6:03 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Do you
Think that over the long run K2 will be better over Webster. I dont feel good with him being the starter. Maybe its because Webster is more familar with the system. But based of your analysis it seems to me K2 is the better MLB. I hope Shanny is going on who is going to be better against the faders
by broncfanstuckinsd on Aug 25, 2008 6:26 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
He is.
Mountains, forest, sea: these render man fierce, but yet do not destroy the man.
by Jeremy Bolander on Aug 25, 2008 6:28 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree .. .
Styg rocks!!
Never pass up the opportunity to keep your mouth shut. - my daddy
by AZDynamics on Aug 25, 2008 3:00 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
third this motion.
If God is not a Bronco fan, then WHY are sunsets Blue and Orange? - Jon Tollerud 5/22/08
I got a high ankle sprain in college and it still hurts! ~ TSG 8/13/08
by Tim Lynch on Aug 25, 2008 3:10 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Awww....
shucks…
Mountains, forest, sea: these render man fierce, but yet do not destroy the man.
by Jeremy Bolander on Aug 25, 2008 4:51 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ha ha
So I think we have to get us MHR Alaska guys out to trainign camp next year as a whole!
" He goes against Champ everyday." -Jay Cutler
Davis to the Hall!
by Jon Tollerud on Aug 25, 2008 5:00 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
I would love to have both
an MHR “draftivus” (complete with shiny aluminum draft board) and a training camp “gathering” that had a lot of MHR participation….
Mountains, forest, sea: these render man fierce, but yet do not destroy the man.
by Jeremy Bolander on Aug 25, 2008 5:07 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
If I am given 8-10 months advance notice I can start saving up for a trip to Colorado...
not sure if I have two big trips in a single year in me…as my wife would like to go somewhere she would enjoy. I get one, she gets one…that’s fair in my eyes. :)
If God is not a Bronco fan, then WHY are sunsets Blue and Orange? - Jon Tollerud 5/22/08
I got a high ankle sprain in college and it still hurts! ~ TSG 8/13/08
by Tim Lynch on Aug 25, 2008 5:09 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
she would enjoy Colorado especially real MOUNTAINS
by broncfanstuckinsd on Aug 25, 2008 5:11 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
She would enjoy it....until I said,
“Well honey, have fun…I got some Bronco practices to go watch and some guys to have some beers with!”
Unless you all plan on bringing your wives with you…..I’m ****ed. lol
If God is not a Bronco fan, then WHY are sunsets Blue and Orange? - Jon Tollerud 5/22/08
I got a high ankle sprain in college and it still hurts! ~ TSG 8/13/08
by Tim Lynch on Aug 25, 2008 5:19 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Naw....
I wouldn’t put up with her anti-football sentiments if the love wasn’t strong. I get my way more often than not…. :P
If God is not a Bronco fan, then WHY are sunsets Blue and Orange? - Jon Tollerud 5/22/08
I got a high ankle sprain in college and it still hurts! ~ TSG 8/13/08
by Tim Lynch on Aug 25, 2008 5:30 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
I dont have a wife
but I know a lot of girls out there who she coudl enjoy hanging out with during that time!
" He goes against Champ everyday." -Jay Cutler
Davis to the Hall!
by Jon Tollerud on Aug 25, 2008 5:26 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
My wife isn't into sports at all.
But I would bring her and my daughter. They’d have a great time with or without me in Colorado!
"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe
by Steve Nichols on Aug 25, 2008 10:57 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm thinking we should book a Broncos Fan Cruise.
We could have presentations from MHR writers and staff, and all the food we could eat! (Alaska would be an obvious location for the cruise).
"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe
by Steve Nichols on Aug 25, 2008 10:56 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
I would lbe glad to share reindeer sausage and smoked salmon with the MHR crew
by Arctic Bronco on Aug 25, 2008 10:58 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
That seals it!
LOVE smoked salmon!
"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe
by Steve Nichols on Aug 26, 2008 6:18 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Are you stationed in Alaska?
I think your idea of a MHR AK Rendezvous at the next training camp is a good idea.
by Arctic Bronco on Aug 25, 2008 10:57 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
I am moving there monday!
I work for the Salvation Army now running their churches and programs
" He goes against Champ everyday." -Jay Cutler
Davis to the Hall!
by Jon Tollerud on Aug 26, 2008 9:16 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
reading it right now.
yowza
Mountains, forest, sea: these render man fierce, but yet do not destroy the man.
by Jeremy Bolander on Aug 25, 2008 6:05 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wow
essentially they are giving him the job because Niko isn’t picking up the defense fast enough.
I was worried about this. They are choosing now over the future. They are taking a huge chance putting in the guy with familiarity, but a fundamental flaw, hoping that Niko learns enough in the coming weeks to possibly supplant Webster someday.
They are putting all of their MLB eggs into the “Webster can learn to tackle” basket, and they are going to be disappointed. Webster didn’t tackle in Cincinnatti, he couldn’t tackle in Tampa Bay, and he has yet to show he can tackle here.
Something else this says, and maybe it isn’t that bad, but practices are going to be focused on “the fundamentals” instead of raising these guys to the next level. There was already signs that practices would be like this, due to the number of new and young players, but I really dislike the notion of someone with Webster’s history of tackling. A nine year vet should bring more to the table, IMO….
I don’t know if I need to go on the record about this or not, but I have to say I disagree heartily with this choice.
Mountains, forest, sea: these render man fierce, but yet do not destroy the man.
by Jeremy Bolander on Aug 25, 2008 6:12 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
I will also add
that Shanny’s wording lends hope to the situation. He has to give the nod to the guy who understands the gameplan better and knows his job the best, but gives a kick in the pants to Niko by saying that he will see “extensive” playing time against arizona.
I hold out hope that if Niko works hard on getting his head around the game, and translates that into less hesitancy in his play, we may still see him starting before too long.
I can’t fault Shanny here, even though I don’t like the move. He didn’t get to where he is by worrying about winning games two and three weeks away. I believe that Nate is the better choice against the raiders, but that starting Niko is key to giving ourselves the BEST chance that our roster holds to win more games down the line this season. What a choice.
Mountains, forest, sea: these render man fierce, but yet do not destroy the man.
by Jeremy Bolander on Aug 25, 2008 6:22 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
I wouldn't assume...
…that .being named a starter is a permanent move, in this case. I had a feeling Webster would have an advantage going into the start of the season but I wouldn’t assume that it will be the case down the line. The coaching staff will be a little reluctant to make a change if it’s seen as a destructive move, i.e., hurts Webster’s ego, etc., but Niko still has the chance to overtake Webster if he becomes proficient in this defense.
Next year’s a different story, for both of them, and I’ve been looking at the 2009 draft prospects at LB (and SA) a lot lately.
by Colinski on Aug 25, 2008 6:40 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
scheduling
this may be a factor in his decision with niko. 3 division games in the first 4 plus a real good new orleans team. tampa, jax, n.e. before the bye. important opening slate, alot of new/coming-off-injury players. he may have just gone with the known commodity here. and i still don’t think it is easy to jump from a backup on 1 team to starter at mlb on another by opening day. he’ll come on later, as will jackson, colbert, etc. we need to win as many games in the first month or two as we can. he is probably still getting acclimated it sounds from these reports
by davecheffy on Aug 25, 2008 9:29 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
I think you are exactly right
I suspected that they might choose Niko on the grounds that more time would benefit him and make us stronger later in the season. But I know shanahan better than that. He is going to give his team the best chance to beat oakland on MNF. Whether Niko is fit to step into the starting lineup down the road is Niko’s problem.
And rightly so.
Mountains, forest, sea: these render man fierce, but yet do not destroy the man.
by Jeremy Bolander on Aug 25, 2008 9:52 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not sure what to make of your scoring system,
when you had Niko’s performance graded so much higher than Webster’s, yet Shanny picked Webster as the starter.
I agree with others that Webster may know the defense better, and may have less hesitation. And I think Webster may have more allegiance with teammates overall (as a returning player who busted tail in the off-season). And I agree Niko may be better in the long run.
However, even if all that is true, I don’t think Shanny would select Webster, unless they felt his current game performance was as good or better than Niko’s.
by The Gun Young on Aug 25, 2008 10:25 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
NPLB must stop!
The NPLB series is so good that I have no doubt that an agent from the big time media will come serenading and steal our beloved series away. The NPLB posts are the best analytical football articles I have ever read and are on par with the football coaching books in my collection
.
We all need to enjoy the articles before Styg and his crew move on to greener pastures. At least we will be able to say "Yeah, I knew him back in the day, in fact did I ever tell you that I had the privilege to see the ORIGINAL posts? "
by Arctic Bronco on Aug 25, 2008 10:50 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
Concerns about Styg defecting...
…are taken seriously. I wouldn’t doubt if some of the NPLB analysts are actually MHR agents sent to keep an eye on him.
"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe
by Steve Nichols on Aug 25, 2008 10:53 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Frankly
I don’t trust the analysts any farther than I can drop kick their feathery butts.
I had to sit through a rereading of “Bonfire of the Manatees” last night. They are such a pain….
Mountains, forest, sea: these render man fierce, but yet do not destroy the man.
by Jeremy Bolander on Aug 25, 2008 11:45 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

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