MHR Chalk Talk -- Week 2 - San Diego Chargers at Denver Broncos
YOUR SOURCE FOR THE VERY BEST
IN DENVER BRONCO PRE-GAME ANALYSIS
MILEHIGHREPORT.COM 
For all your San Diego Chargers News, check out Bolts From The Blue 
So you thought week one was important? Well, it was. After all, Denver was playing a division rival (ok, ok, the division rival), it was a Monday Night Football game, and the first game of the 2008 season. Still, this week's game goes well beyond all of that.
-
Denver leads the AFC West. With a win against SD, Denver takes a commanding lead over the team many "experts" pick to represent the AFC West in the playoffs.
-
Along with NE, this is supposed to be one of the toughest games on a weak schedule. Did I say NE? They of "Bradyless" fame?
-
More than any other game this season, this game should indicate the readiness of Denver to get back to the playoffs. SD is a better team than Oakland.
While many Denver fans waited for the season to start on Monday against the hated Raiders, this is perhaps the game fans have really waited for. Monday was the game we wanted emotionaly. Monday's game was a test. Now the season really starts. This is the game where Denver answers the question, "Are we for real?" This is the game where the quest really takes off.
Let's take a look at both teams; the systems, the players, the Xs and Os, the match-ups. The last game was nice, but against a basement team. This game is against the current AFC West Champions, and we need to know what's in store for the game.
Read on...
The San Diego Defense -
First, let's take a look at the SD defense. The following is an excerpt from a longer article that I wrote for Milehighreport.com about common systems run from a 3-4 defense (the full article can be found here) . The article mentions terms like "one gap" and "two gap", and explanations can be found here.
The "Phillips"
This system is not what people think of when they think of the 3-4, because the original 3-4 was/is strictly a 2-gap system.
In fact, look at the Denver "Orange Crush Defense" of the late 70's. It was run by Red Miller, and one of his assistants at the time was Coach Belichick. Belichick ended up in NE as we all know, while Fairbanks returned to college coaching in Colorado. Denver fans would thus be more likely than many fans to think of the 3-4 in terms of 2 gap, but you can still read the mistaken notion in many sports sites and publications.
The Phillips is named after "Bum Phillips", father of DAL head coach Wade Phillips, who formerly coached the Broncos as both a head coach and defensive coordinator. Bum learned under Paul "Bear" Bryant at A&M and had coached high school football well enough to break into the college ranks (not a common route). He was a defensive coordinator in SD, then in HOU (that's the Oilers for you young folks). He later was a head coach in HOU and later for NO.
Phillips was an innovator who turned the 3-4 upside down. His system is one-gap. The DL penetrates, and is charged with constant harrasment of the QB. The LBs are typically fast, and at least one of them will blitz on any given play.
The reason for the near constant 1-LB blitz is to account for the fact that the outnumbered DL is also relatively undersized and only one-gapping. However, the adjustments work out well. The OL never knows who the blitzer will be, or where he will come from. The Phillips is more aggressive that the Bullough. The school of thought for the Phillips 3-4 is the need to pressure against the QB to stop the pass threat, and this is done by varying who the "fourth rusher" (who is really a blitzer) is.
Add another blitzer in here and there, and the speedy/aggressive Phillips system is a threat to QBs, and attempts to get turnovers by slashing the time that a QB has to make decisions.
This is the system of choice for DAL, but also SD.
It is not the ideal system for SD in one sense. Denver (king of the offensive "zone block " system for runs) and oakland (newly switched to the zone block) are built to run over the 1 gap defenses, and they share the division with SD. SD adjusts for this by:
- Relying on a high tempo offense featuring LT, Gates, and Chambers to dictate games,
- Backing up the LBs to give them more reactionary distance, and
- shooting for a better record against the Chiefs (2 games) and the other 10 games out of division.
So now, I hope you have a good idea of what the SD defensive system is all about. Now let's plug in the players.
The most notable issue for SD is that they are missing Shawne Merriman for the season. He is considered to be perhaps the best defensive player for SD, having been a star at the weak, outside linebacker position. This position (in the Phillips system) is faster that the ILBs, and should be equaly adept at man, zone, and blitzing duties. Jyles Tucker should be a major step down or SD.
The remaining LB corps is solid across the board.
SD's cornerbacks are elite, most notably starters Cromartie and Jammer. While Jammer has been around the block for awhile, Cromartie is a newer, growing sensation. Along with Denver and Oakland (two other AFC West teams), this is one of the top CB tandems in the entire League.
Hart (strong) and Weddle (free) are the safeties. Again, SD presents with solid players across the board. I particularly like Weddle, who is a threat to any offensive player that gets through coverage.
There is also no real weakness on the front three. Defensive ends Olshanky and Castillo are more than adequate at hitting their gaps, as is nose tackle Jamal Williams.
All in all, SDs defense is good at DL, very good at SAF, and elite at CB. While one could call them something between elite and very good at LB, with the loss of Merriman they downgrade somewhat to being "just" good. With the exception (perhaps) of a back-up player at ROLB (weak LB), this defense has no real holes.
The Denver Offense -
Denver's offense looks to explode onto the scene in 2008. Just ask Oakland.
First, the system. Denver runs a West Coast Offense, complimented with a Zone Block System (one cut runner variation).
QB Jay Cutler was hailed by some sports journalists as being a top ten QB last year. This was even after Cutler lost 33 pounds to untreated diabetes. Now Jay has the condition under treatment, has gained back his weight, and no longer deals with fatigue. He's a pocket passer that, according to (former) Coach Mike Ditka can throw better on the run than any current QB. Culter ran an option system at Vanderbilt, and knows how to run and throw on the run. He has a gun for an arm too. But his poise, and his intelligence make him perfect as a drop back passer in Coach Mike Shanahan's (prefered) drop and pass program. Cutler has the tools and the poise to be a top five QB this year.
And his targets are frighteningly good. #1 wide receiver Marshall is back after a one game suspension, and has the power to fight for a ball, then run over the first one or two tacklers he encounters. Rookie Eddie Royal showed (against pro bowler DeAngelo Hall) that he has veteran route skills, blazing speed, and sure hands. Royal played as the #1 receiver against Oakland. He will only have to play as the #2 against SD. That's great news for Denver fans alone. Now one adds in slot receiving star Brandon Stokley, and SDs job should be harder.
But it doesn't stop there. While TE Graham is likely to pass block most of the game (and he is perhaps the best blocking TE in the League), TE Scheffler was a favorite target for Cutler last year in the passing game. Add in TE (former receiver) Nate Jackson, who caught a bomb on Monday night, and you have a perfect storm in the making.
Denver's committee running back program features Young and Hall, each whom garnered over a 5 ypc average (and running back, short down specialist Pittmann, who tied for third in scoring in the League last week). No worries there.
And Denver's O-Line is legendary. What can be added there? Oh, right. No sacks against Cutler last week.
Denver's first round draft pick, Ryan Clady, has been perfect so far:

Denver, like SD, features no weaknesses. Denver is elite or excellent across the board. So what happens when Denver's offense meets San Diego's defense?
Bronoco offense vs Charger defense
The first thing to note is Denver's advantage in zone blocking against a one gap system. SD can (and will) mitigate the mismatch by zoning LBs not assigned to the Denver half back, and assigning a LB (probably an inside linebacker) to that runner. SD can do this because DEN will not likely run to the sides against a 3-4 defense (which features OLBs that are spread further left and right than a 4-3).
The result, on running plays, is that Denver is very likely to pick up easy short yardage. Few running tackles should be made by the DL, with the LBs and even safeties making most of these tackles.
If the DEN O-Line gets penetration to the second level (LBs), Denver's one cut runners are likely to increase their gains from short yards to medium and long gains. SD must tackle on first contact to hold Denver. Failure to bring down a Denver runner on first contact in this scheme match-up can mean disaster for the Chargers. As long as the Chargers tackle well, they can hold back the flood. But they must do it on every running play with consistency, because Denver only needs one mistake to go the distance.
Denver's run game will be set up by the pass game (as it was against Oakland). Denver was not afraid to pair a rookie WR against a #1 CB (and pro-bowler to boot). This week, that rookie (who holds the League's top reception stat), that QB (who holds a triple digit passing rating), and the the team's real #1 WR bring their game to bear against another talented secondary.
SD will rely on a pass rush coupled with varied LB blitz packages. They must get pressure if their secondary is going to cover Denver's receivers. This pass rush will meet a team that hasn't given up any sacks so far.
Denver can try to minimize QB pressure in several ways.
-
By shooting for an early lead that can be protected with the running game. This is tricky for SD to count on though. Denver can take the early lead and switch to a high octane run game, or they can do what they did to Oakland - just keep passing (if successful).
-
With misdirection (the signature bootleg play, and the common cut-backs), it can be difficult for players to stay on assignment (going after the QB).
-
Cutler is more of a pocket passer than previous Denver QBs, but he scrambled at Vandy, and has scrambled well in DEN. He can get out of the pocket easily, run, and still put the ball on target at great range.
-
Denver's O-Line did something amazing against Oakland, given Cutler what seemed like YEARS to throw the ball.
-
The classic approach to protect QBs from 3-4 rushes is with a two tight end set. Denver is capable with 3 solid TEs.
SD will counter by doing what they do best. Most plays that show pass will feature one (and likely no more than two) LBs coming at Cutler from varied directions. Power is not the SD forte. SD will rely on deception and speed to get into the Denver backfield. This should work better that Oakland's Press and Force system, since Denver has a rookie LT and a RT playing in his first full year (after a rookie season injury). Where Denver's young tackles could use sound technique against Oakland, they will really need experience and football smarts to counter a SD type rush / blitz package.
SD will be unable to double cover receivers. Both Marshall and Hall are legitimate threats, but Denver can also hit their TEs as well. In passing situations, the base defense expectation is to have both SD safeties deep, CBs in single coverage, and a LB covering a TE, one LB to blitz, and two LBs to zone. SD will vary this to some extent, but primarily which LB has which assignment.
The Denver Defense -
The expectation at MHR for Slowik's defense this year was the Man - Show Blitz system. Oddly enough, Denver didn't show much in the way of a particular system in the Oakland game. Where they doing so well on defense (Raiders scoreless the first three quarters) that they felt they could hid their blitz packages until the big game in week two? Aggressive minded coordinator Slowik didn't have to attack much at all, and played a simple, one gap, man defense. But that defense was star studded.
Denver's obvious strength is at CB, where the two leading interception masters for years (Bailey and Bly) play on the same team. Elite
While Denver lost a legend at strong safety (Lynch), they seem to improved overall at the safety position with former Charger McCree and new addittion Manuel. Good.
2nd in the NFL (2007) tackler DJ Williams moves from MLB to his prefered WLB position, and the team moved Webster to MLB and got Boss Bailey from Detroit to play at SAM. Here, the question marks start. Williams is great; no doubt about it. Webster has had some issues in the past playing at SAM, but he is now back to MLB and played well in Oakland. The jury is still out there. And WInborn played at SAM for an injured B. Bailey, so Denver fans still haven't made a decision on that side of the field. Good.
The situation remains murky at DT. Denver will rely on Marcus Thomas and DeWayne Robertson, with some rotation of other tackles. Again, the jury is out on how well this position holds up for Denver. Question mark.
Things look better at DE. Denver feels they have a future pro-bowl talent with Elvis Dumervil, and they have four other DEs who are either pass rush or run stopping specialists. None of the five players are weak. Very good.
The San Diego Offense -
This is where the game could be decided. Rivers is a decent enough QB, but his weapons are incredible.
Tomlinson is perhaps the best RB in the League. He can run like no one else, he can catch, heck, he can even pass! He is the player that Charger opponents worry about the most.
Gates is one of the premier TEs in the League. His talent is such that Bailey (Denver CB) was charged with covering him instead of a WR in the past. Until...
...the arrival of WR Chambers. Now, with Bailey forced to cover Chambers, the job of covering Gates falls to either a Denver safety or Denver's SAM. whichever player covers Gates leaves a hole for Tomlinson.
Put this package behind a solid offensive line, and you can see the problems that teams face.
Charger offense vs Bronco defense
Worth considering is the state of the Chargers. They are an elite team that has done well recently. But cracks started to show in the pre-season through the first game (a loss to Carolina). Merriman (defense) is out, and both Gates and Tomlinson are coming back from injuries. Even Rivers is in recovery. A little rust is showing here and there. The Chargers, 0-1 are going into Denver, 1-0.
The Charger plan is simple, but deadly when executed. Give the ball to LT, and have him run weakside (not common for most NFL teams). SD like to pull the RG on the OL to block for LT as well.
When a team starts cheating up the safeties to account for the run, Gates and Chambers spread the field. Gates is a mismatch for most LBs (speed) and safeties (power). Chambers doesn't have to be spectacular. He only needs to keep the #1 CBs in the League and the safeties from concentrating all of their energy on Gates.
Denver kept the vaunted Raider RBs (Fargas and McFadden) from breaking out, but they didn't exactly stop them either. LT should be a more difficult prospect. If Denver can stop LT, or at least slow him down, SD will go to the air.
In the air, Bailey is mor than a match for Chambers. The problem is, who stops Gates? Boss Bailey (at SAM) may be able to, but we don't yet know. Manuel isn't a speed demon at SS, and McCree has the speed, but is the primary insurance against anyone covering Gates or Chambers. In other words, who backs-up the safety when the safety covers the TE?
This is Denver's chance to break out the blitz program (if it is going to happen). Rivers has good qualites, but playing under pressure isn't one of them. If Denver can infiltrate the pocket, they can help to cause interceptions. If not, Denver will have to prove that they have a player that can shut down Gates.
Pick your poison. Gates or LT. If Denver can stop both players, they should have a defense to go with their powerful offense. If not, the game becomes a shootout.
Match-ups
QB - DEN
RB - SD
WR - DEN
TE - EVEN
OL - DEN
DT / NT - SD
DE - DEN
LB - EVEN
CB - DEN
SAF - SD
STs - EVEN
COACHING - DEN
Keys to the Game
Denver will win this game if they can do two things.
-
Protecting Cutler is the most important key. If he has the protection, Cutler will put up Peyton Manning numbers.
-
Run the ball effectively. If Denver can run the ball, the game is over.
The Chargers:
- Get to Culter. Denver has too many weapons to scheme against only one or two of them. They must pressure Cutler, or he'll have a field day.
- If the Chargers can get good running production, they can keep Cutler off of the field, win the "time of possession" war, and gain good field position.
OVERVIEW
Denver comes into the game with a lopsided victory over the Raiders. The Raiders feature elite RBs, and Elite CBs. Denver's #2 WR (rookie) Royal ran circles around DeAngelo Hall, while the Denver defense hurried QB Russell and kept the game scoreless for three quarters. SD, on the other hand, lost a close heartbreaker to CAR, and didn't look impressive doing it.
The game is in Denver (altitude and crowd noise).
Here's what I am thinking. All during (what we at MHR call) the reloading season, I felt Denver would split the series with Oakland. The more I researched before the game the more I felt that, even without #1 WR Marshall, the Broncos would win this game. Even so, I though it would be close. I was wrong. Denver exceeded my wildest expectations.
Again, during the realoading season, I thought Denver's goal should be to split the series with SD, but the reality might be different. I would have picked SD to win one game for sure, with the remaining game to be 50-50 chances. The more I research, and from I saw in week one, I'm again adjusting my predictions.
Denver is the younger team, and has more potential for growth by the end of the season (when we face SD again). But that game will be in SD. It's too far out to guess on that game.
But this game is different. While Denver made a few first game mistakes (a few bobbled receptions, for example), they looked confident and calm. SD (from the few clips I've seen) don't look like the SD we're used to.
If the week one Chargers play the week one Broncos (add in Marshall), this game is over. Denver doesn't have to change a thing, while the burden is on SD to improve.
I'll take Denver.
126 comments
|
12 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
Sets up as a big game for Vince Jackson
…v. D. Bly, given six inche ht. advantage and all the other concerns for Broncos secondary. Shades of Reggie Wayne. After Jackson makes a few big plays, things will be softer for Gates and Chambers? I’m worried…What about this?
Given Merriman’s knee, Tucker is an upgrade at WILL on the pass rush.
Do you think we see #53 on Gates? Shanny has shown some willingness to try to optimize his personnel by opponent — see last week’s D-line. If I learned anything from your university, it is that it is all in the match ups, right?
You imply that we will see a lot of Pittman and Hillis, the pick they got for Plummer. With the advent of Hillis, is the H-back is back in this offense? When would you use it? As if they don’t have enough. Broncos used to get a lot of touchdowns on passes to the H-back. I’d like to hear about that.
Super post, as usual.
"I told him (Montrae), don't worry, you'll pass out before you die" -- Rick Tuten
by littletinybroncos on Sep 11, 2008 9:51 AM MDT reply actions
Tucker an upgrade
maybe I am misunderstanding you, but are you saying Tucker is an upgrade over Merriman? Or because he was hurt? Even when Merriman was out last week, Tucker was getting no pressure. As much as I dislike Merriman he was a good pass rusher and a cover LB. I think this is going to hurt SD more than anyone is willing to admit. You just cant replace 39.5 sacks 40 something games. And dont think Tuckers last game last year is real indictive of how good he is. I dont buy that he is all that
by broncfanstuckinsd on Sep 11, 2008 12:48 PM MDT up reply actions
Wasn't that game against the faders anyway?
"It's all over Fat Man" - Tom Jackson to John Madden 1977 AFC Championship Game
"I love your analysis of our team. Its kinda like watching a spider monkey trying to figure out a jar of peanuts.. you know whats going on.. you know whats in there, but to actually figure it out, is just a bit beyond your mental skills..."
- Bronco Dano
by DesertBroncoFan on Sep 11, 2008 1:37 PM MDT up reply actions
So, it meant nothing to either side...
"It's all over Fat Man" - Tom Jackson to John Madden 1977 AFC Championship Game
"I love your analysis of our team. Its kinda like watching a spider monkey trying to figure out a jar of peanuts.. you know whats going on.. you know whats in there, but to actually figure it out, is just a bit beyond your mental skills..."
- Bronco Dano
by DesertBroncoFan on Sep 11, 2008 2:10 PM MDT up reply actions
I think we will use...
Pittman as a HB (halfback), not as an H-Back (a kind of halfback, tight end hybrid). I think we use him for short yarage mostly. If he does get a pass, it will be more likely as a “trick play” kind of move (perhaps a screen), rather than as an H-Back by system.
Hillis should get a run or two as well, and perhaps a goal line screen pass. I still expect Young and Hall to get most of the carries.
I’m very interested in if Boss can cover Gates. If he can’t, I don’t think Manuel has the speed. I don’t like bringing down the FS (McCree) to do it, because we lose deep zone protection and limit what our CBs can do. SD’s offense is much more tricky to scheme against with the addittion of Chambers.
"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe
by Steve Nichols on Sep 11, 2008 1:04 PM MDT up reply actions
That gives me worries as well (Jackson v. Bly)
Critical we get pressure on Rivers so he makes bad throws, but I could see them trying Paymah over there to try to match the height.
"How do the berries taste Ralph?" Bart Simpson
"They taste like burning." Ralph Wigam
Broncoman
Bly.
Bly plays his best (gambler) when he has the coverage over the top to support him. Against SD, I doubt he has that coverage from the safeties (because of the twin receiving threats in Gates and Chambers). If we are very lucky, Boss turns out to be a good coverage LB against Gates, freeing up the two safeties somewhat. But then you might still have to stick Manuel in the box to stop LT.
It’s pretty thorny. I have no doubt our offense will do well. The defense could go either way this game. This will be the prime test of our defense to determine how far the team can count on them.
"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe
by Steve Nichols on Sep 11, 2008 2:19 PM MDT up reply actions
Great points
I could see this game turning into an old AFC West shoot-out.
"How do the berries taste Ralph?" Bart Simpson
"They taste like burning." Ralph Wigam
Broncoman
If Shanny goes this route...
..it will be a high scoring game. SD has some very elite weapons, but I think we have more. On the other hand, I’ll feel better if we just get a quick lead and let our runners run out the game.
"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe
by Steve Nichols on Sep 11, 2008 3:10 PM MDT up reply actions
I'm with you HT
Since I’ll only be able to pick up the score from ESPN Mobile Alerts, I don’t want my crackberry’s batteries going dead before the game is over!
"It's all over Fat Man" - Tom Jackson to John Madden 1977 AFC Championship Game
"I love your analysis of our team. Its kinda like watching a spider monkey trying to figure out a jar of peanuts.. you know whats going on.. you know whats in there, but to actually figure it out, is just a bit beyond your mental skills..."
- Bronco Dano
by DesertBroncoFan on Sep 11, 2008 4:04 PM MDT up reply actions
The Test
Great review. This week we definitely get to see what our 08 Broncos are about. To me the game falls to the Defense which is still a mystery to me. We looked good on D against the Faiders, but that means nothing.
If our Defense can slow and/or stop their running game, I think we will win. If not it is going to be a very long day for us.
I don’t want to see a shoot-out with SD as they are too dangerous and familiar with us. I want to see our defense game plan and drop a hammer on the Merry men.
That being said, we can definitely win a shoot out if we get the last possesion. Our offense has been nothing but impressive so far.
I disagree with one point
San Diego is familiar with the 2006 and 2007 Denver Broncos. They are NOT familiar with the 2008 Broncos, especially the 2008 Bronco Offense.
They are a dangerous team, but what I saw from the offense was awesome: they destroyed oakland, and didn’t look like they broke a sweat doing it. Now Marshall is back…I can’t imagine a defensive coordinator getting much sleep before playing this offense!
~Uffdah
Reply to The Test
This post is why I appreciate Denver fans, and I agree completely. As everyone knows, San Diego has had Denver’s number the last few years.
It’s important for the Broncos to get off to a quick start, to play with the lead, to maintain momentum. A grind-it-out, 20-17 kind of gam would be ideal for Denver. Phillip Rivers has good moxie now and — as you saw last week — had developed shiftiness to buy a little extra time to make the right play.
Should be a classic AFC West showdown!
by SteveinSanDiego on Sep 11, 2008 6:40 PM MDT up reply actions
Great article, as always!
I always learn something from your posts, HT (not that I know that much to start with).
Your summary regarding how calm (or not) each team looked last week pretty much nails it for me: I expect the Broncos to be cool, collected, and pumped up, while I think the Chargers are going to come in more edgy. If the Broncos have some success in the first half, the may be able to create some desperation from SD. Even so, in the past few years the Chargers have become very good at playing from behind, so this game won’t be over until the final whistle.
The only point I might argue is regarding SD’s DL. I think Olshansky, WIlliams, and Castillo are among the league’s better DL units. Any of the three can be hard to handle.
I agree that SD's DL is good.
No doubt about that. But from a system perspective, it is difficult to play a one gap program against a zone block OL. In terms of the running game, Denver should do well. In the passing game, I think our new OTs will have a tougher time than against Oak.
As I mentioned in the article, our new O-Linemen handled the Raiders rush (Press and Force) with pure talent. Against the Phillips type of blitz packages, they’ll have to rely a lot more on experience and smarts. The various looks our young guys (Harris and Clady) get will be tricky.
"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe
by Steve Nichols on Sep 11, 2008 1:13 PM MDT up reply actions
LDT didn't practice yesterday
because of a stubbed big toe he suffered in the final drive on Sunday (according to CBSSportsline), but they also said that Jay and Royal with Cheese practiced despite knee and ankle injuries respectively (I didn’t hear about either of those).
"It's all over Fat Man" - Tom Jackson to John Madden 1977 AFC Championship Game
"I love your analysis of our team. Its kinda like watching a spider monkey trying to figure out a jar of peanuts.. you know whats going on.. you know whats in there, but to actually figure it out, is just a bit beyond your mental skills..."
- Bronco Dano
by DesertBroncoFan on Sep 11, 2008 10:04 AM MDT reply actions
neither di
Marcus McNeil (neck) or Antonio Cromartie (hip)
Our list looks a lot longer than I expected, but at least on Wed everyone but Green practiced
Jason
The Hanging Curve
by poorboywilly on Sep 11, 2008 12:20 PM MDT up reply actions
"He can run like no one else, he can catch, heck, he can even pass!"
Was that a Friday Night Lights (the movie) reference?
Shame on me.
I haven’t yet seen that film.
"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe
by Steve Nichols on Sep 11, 2008 1:14 PM MDT up reply actions
You haven't missed much
There is some dawson’s creek drama, with some (emphasis on some) good football action, and a pig. That pretty much sums it up.
"It's the first time that I've probably ever seen a 260 pound back run into a free safety and go flat on his back, I mean it was exciting." ~John Elway
like jibbons said,
don’t worry about it if you haven’t seen it. There’s just a part in the beginning where the uncle (or was he the father) of the superstar running back on the team was hyping the kid to some college scouts who were watching a practice. I just remember the “he can even pass!” moment and it rang a bell.
Kind of a shrill, clangy bell, but it rang.
by David Hooper on Sep 11, 2008 6:55 PM MDT up reply actions
I think its worth noting
that SD starting LB Stephen Cooper isn’t playing in this game either (roid suspension).
As always HT, great write up!
Michael Fabiano really knows nothing about football outside of regression analysis and stat extrapolation. If it doesn’t have to do with fantasy football, his opinion is worthless.
cooper is OUT
another part of the steriod boys, along with Merriodman and castillo
by broncfanstuckinsd on Sep 11, 2008 12:50 PM MDT up reply actions
Thanks for the heads up guys.
I do the write-ups Wed or earlier (my copy deadline is Thu), so the injury list is never completely clear to me. For that reason, I don’t research injuries / suspensions as well as if the articles appeared later in the week. I don’t offer that as an excuse, but with the hope that it is taken into consideration when reading Chalk Talk for player evals.
In the case of Cooper, I left his name out.
"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe
by Steve Nichols on Sep 11, 2008 1:19 PM MDT up reply actions
I usually here
about SD crap on thursday mornings when I get slammed with all charger news. I tell you I want Denver to win this game in the worst way. I am so tired of the belittling of the Broncos. I can respect that SD is the defending West chumps. But to blatantly igonore and belittle the Broncos is infuriating. Denver is a good team and destroying oakland on the road should prove that, all it did here was reinforce how bad oakland is. But to me a team that wants to go to the playoffs and the Super Bowl blowing out teams like the faders means that they are a good team, and not one that plays down to its competition.
by broncfanstuckinsd on Sep 11, 2008 1:23 PM MDT up reply actions
It will be hard to shoot down the Broncos in the press...
…if Denver wins this game. Denver may still get ignored for “more newsworthy teams”, but they won’t dwell in the lower 16 teams on many power polls anymore. Also, a second straight loss by SD should drop them down the charts by quite a bit.
Don’t expect a lot of love by the media if we win. They just won’t bring us up much. That’s ok with me. We’re playing for wins, not media publicity.
"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe
by Steve Nichols on Sep 11, 2008 1:28 PM MDT up reply actions
I'm with you HT.
I have gotten used to the Broncos getting the short end of the stick from the media, however whether we get some love from them or not………really don’t care as long as we are winning and playing well doing it.
I do agree with broncfanstuckinsd is saying about being belittled. The success has gone to their head…..I do have Charger friends that are more level headed.
Nice breakdown HT…….as always!
"It doesn't dissipate" ~ Mike Shanahan
Thanks so much Weazel.
Those SB wins made up for plenty of years we were underrated.
"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe
by Steve Nichols on Sep 12, 2008 5:35 AM MDT up reply actions
Fabulous preview, HT!!
It is really something, with BMarsh and Fast Eddie, not to have to worry about the other side’s “elite” CBs. San Diego’s isn’t any better than Oakland’s, and we saw what the Broncos did . . . without BMarsh.
The offensive line also gave a glimpse last week of the wall it will form against the Chargers. The Raiders may be bad overall, but not necessarily in their front seven, especially with Merriman gone and their NT reportedly hurting. I noticed just on thing in your analysis: no mention of R. Harris. Clady has been magnificent, yes, but so has his complementary bookend.
The Chargers are going to give the Broncos everything they’ve got this week. Be assured of that. However, I really don’t think what they have is enough. We’ll see, of course.
Never pass up the opportunity to keep your mouth shut. - my daddy
I wasn't really even going to mention Clady.
The only thing that really needs to be said is that the Denver OL is, well, the Denver OL. It is legendary, and remains elite. I only mentioned Clady as an excuse to insert the cartoon image. I really love it.
A more in depth look at the OL could be a post in itself. But you are correct. Clady and Harris both proved themselves at OT, and the others did a terrific job too. Wiegmann (as a former Chief) knows the Raider and Charger schemes and personnel already, but he showed himself to be a capable zone blocker too.
"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe
by Steve Nichols on Sep 11, 2008 1:25 PM MDT up reply actions
"A more in depth look at the OL could be a post in itself."
I’d like to read that post.
Thanks for the great preview.
"It's the first time that I've probably ever seen a 260 pound back run into a free safety and go flat on his back, I mean it was exciting." ~John Elway
I think as the season wears on...
…and we know this ‘08 team a little better, you’ll get plenty of solid posts from members and contributers alike on each unit.
"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe
by Steve Nichols on Sep 11, 2008 2:21 PM MDT up reply actions
Ahhhh....
That how I feel after reading chalk talk. Hungry for Bronco news and breakdown… get statisfied with Chalk Talk.
Many thanks HT. Appreciate the detail.
by YellowStoneBronco on Sep 11, 2008 1:29 PM MDT reply actions
Hors de'ourves anybody?
Champagne? (Oops, wrong party).
Wings? Beer? Ribs?
"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe
by Steve Nichols on Sep 11, 2008 2:22 PM MDT up reply actions
Champange??
This isn’t the club level seats!!
fader nation is a conquered nation
"Jerry Jones is Al Davis with a smile!"
The creator of the following names: conquered fader nation, Phyllis and his merry men
I'm flexible.
I could go for lobster and wine in the club level one moment, then down all the brats and suds in the nosebleed section I can stomach. I just love good food and drink. I’m a Ruth’s Chris / Burger King guy. I like Iron Chef as much as down home cooking. Just feed me Seymore!
"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe
by Steve Nichols on Sep 11, 2008 3:13 PM MDT up reply actions
In my nosebleed seats
It will be peanuts and beer, with a side of beer. And those will be the best damn peanuts I ever tasted. My God am I excited for my first ever Broncos game.
Yippeeee!
Ugg...
I get that injuries and/or recoveries are holding them back, but I fear we’re getting overconfident. I think we win, but this will be much harder than people see to think.
Here we go again: http://thefulldeck.blogspot.com/
I think we win this one.
I also think it should be MUCH closer than the Oak game. I’m still not wavering from my 10-6 prediction. Not yet.
"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe
by Steve Nichols on Sep 11, 2008 3:14 PM MDT up reply actions
Culinary concerns
HT, thanks for your answers and your patience. What sort of chow goes with a Charger or Chargers? Got tickets on the 30 for the game and I can’t wait. Seems like it should be opponent appropriate, but what is a Charger. Do they mean a horse (ugh — horesemeat), or something with electrodes or batteries? My fiancee needs to know what to fix for this game! What are you havin"?
"I told him (Montrae), don't worry, you'll pass out before you die" -- Rick Tuten
by littletinybroncos on Sep 11, 2008 3:24 PM MDT up reply actions
Just a thought
Some of the enchiladas out here put out more BTUs than Chernyobl.
Atwater for the Hall!
Chargers food (and name origin)
In my article on football cuisine, I thought chicken mole (pronounced mol-ay) would be a good choice, because of the proximity to Mexico. But several sharp fans pointed out that fisch tacos are the way to go. I would go with the adivce of the locals.
Back in the late 50s, the Chargers received their name because of a contest where folks could submit a team name.
"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe
by Steve Nichols on Sep 12, 2008 5:46 AM MDT up reply actions
Great artical
One other thing to add, I would say the 3-4 that SD runs is more of a hybrid between the 3-4 of old (two gap system) and 3-4 of bum (one gap) in that they do use Jamal Williams as a two gap nose tackle much of the time, and then try to free up the MLB and OLB to rush the QB or stop the run, Castillo is very good, but I think the key to their system is Williams, they really are a different team if he is not on the field or is playing poorly.
"How do the berries taste Ralph?" Bart Simpson
"They taste like burning." Ralph Wigam
Broncoman
You are right about Williams.
Any NT needs to be able to do both, and Williams certainly does.
"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe
by Steve Nichols on Sep 11, 2008 2:24 PM MDT up reply actions
offensive questions
is graham helping harris look good? i didn’t get to see the replay of the game to focus in on that, but is he staying in to block on most passing downs? i wonder how much of an impact he is having on our too-good-to-be-true pass-blocking, recently. are we doing this with the starting 5? also, did i see k-lich lining up as a fb(hb?) in the red zone? i also heard he was an eligible receiver on 1 play. and is larsen or pittman our backup fb? both? just curious on that one, hillis seems to be all we need there, great lead-block on the td run by pittman. this offense has me dizzy, i love it. but i would expect sd to give the the o-line the full test on sunday. your right, ht, experience should come into play here, and i expect there to be some breakdowns, but not many. wiegmann has been better than good, and kuper seems to have adjusted well, too. very impressed here, so far
Lots of good stuff there Dave.
is graham helping harris look good?
1) Harris looked good to me with AND without TE support. While Graham or any other TE is a factor on that strong side, Harris didn’t allow penetration on plays where TE support was absent. He also played his run block assignments like a RT should. That’s an excellent question, and from my vantage, Harris did very well.
i didn’t get to see the replay of the game to focus in on that, but is he staying in to block on most passing downs?
2) I focused mostly on the defenses, but if Graham hit any routes I missed them. Against a 3-4 defense, I would expect Graham to block on just about every play.
also, did i see k-lich lining up as a fb(hb?) in the red zone? i also heard he was an eligible receiver on 1 play.
3) Yes. It was more of a trick play kind of thing, so I wouldn’t expect it too much. Still, if K-Lich has the feet…
and is larsen or pittman our backup fb? both?
4) On the official Broncos listing, Pittman is #3 FB, and Larsen is #3.
Great questions Dave!
"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe
by Steve Nichols on Sep 11, 2008 2:34 PM MDT up reply actions
HT, this is better than anything available anywhere else
Rec’d for sure.
So, I think Andre Hall’s our #1 back even if he doesn’t come out of the gates in the backfield. He gets more carries and more yards per carry. I have a feeling that he runs with more authority and faster downhill than Young. Thoughts?
Also, Merriman’s big weakness was “playing in space” and playing in coverage. He was a great pass rusher and did a good job blowing up plays. I don’t care how great Jyles Tucker is, he’s no Merriman. Denver should be able to exploit the weak side more often and keep the Chargers defense more honest than it has been in the past.
I can’t imagine that Denver won’t put Graham on either Harris’ or Clady’s hip in the first few series. I think the bunch set with 1 RB, 2 WR, 2 TE is the way to play vs. SD.
I think SD plays well versus Indy and NE (in the past) and neither team is a smashmouth team. They rely on their QBs getting time. Denver needs to learn this and defer to the run and use lots of audibles into and out of running plays.
The teams the Chargers lose to are teams that out-physical and out-hustle them.
In 2006, the Bolts lost to:
Ravens
Chiefs
Pats (Playoffs)
In 2007, the Bolts lost to:
Pats (who didn’t lose to them, oh yea, NYG)
Packers (Favre blew up and GB helt lt to 62 yds rushg)
Vikes
Chiefs
Jaguars
Pats (Playoffs)
These teams are all ball control/rushing offenses, sans the Packers who won an aerial shootout (Rivers and Favre threw 3 TD passes each). The Pats are a ball control offense, but they do it through the air.
The teams listed all have physical defenses.
Now, I understand that the 2008 Chargers are neither the 2006 or the 2007 Chargers, but I think it’s important that the Broncos realize that they need to be more emotional, more physical, and more aggressive than in the past.
GO BRONCOS
Thanks Super.
Good stuff!
So, I think Andre Hall’s our #1 back even if he doesn’t come out of the gates in the backfield. He gets more carries and more yards per carry. I have a feeling that he runs with more authority and faster downhill than Young. Thoughts?
Both RBs were over 5 ypc, but I agree that Hall looked more committed to his gap. On the other hand, I don’t think Young will lose his starting position, at least for a few games. Hall had a reason to play extra hard (his mother’s death), and it should take more than one game to lose a depth spot. Either way, it shouldn’t matter. Both players will play by committee, regardless of who is listed #1.
Very much agree that two TE sets are the way to go against a 3-4.
I also agree that the way to beat a 3-4 is to muscle the ball up the middle. On defense as well, we want to be physical. The only catch is that it is hard enough to cover all three SD threats (#1 WR, TE, RB), but whenever we blitz we run the risk of pulling more support away from that man coverage. I’m eager to see how Slowik runs this defense against the Chargers.
"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe
by Steve Nichols on Sep 11, 2008 2:43 PM MDT up reply actions
From a comment from "Bolts from the Blue"
Jamal Williams
is the key to our entire season. He looked hurt against Carolina. He spent half of the game on his back or simply getting pushed backwards. His poor play, mixed with our ridiculously slow MLBs , was the reason Carolina seemed to run the ball against us effortlessly.
if Jamal is getting pushed around again against Denver (and why wouldn’t he? he has had two knee surgeries, and if my memory serves me correct at least one of them was caused by a Denver cut-block), it’s going to be difficult to stop their ground game. if we focus on it too much though, Cutler will through it over the head of Weddle (who looked lost in his first start last week….don’t forget that last year he was only brought in to blitz, as a third safety or as a 4th cornerback).
dangerous, dangerous game for us. but we could come out looking fantastic if Jamal plays like he has the past two years and Newberry has a good game. Shelton looked good last week and I’m not at all worried about him.
by obviousman on Sep 11, 2008 11:13 AM PDT reply reply actions actions 0 recs
Sounds like they’re a little nervous about Jamal Williams getting blown away by our interior O-Line and Weddle getting beat deep.
"It's all over Fat Man" - Tom Jackson to John Madden 1977 AFC Championship Game
"I love your analysis of our team. Its kinda like watching a spider monkey trying to figure out a jar of peanuts.. you know whats going on.. you know whats in there, but to actually figure it out, is just a bit beyond your mental skills..."
- Bronco Dano
by DesertBroncoFan on Sep 11, 2008 3:05 PM MDT up reply actions
My thoughts on Williams and Weddle.
I think Weddle will do fine. He looked good enough for SD to part ways with McCree (our gain). Like any young, new safety he’ll make mistakes. But I think he will improve as time goes on.
As for Williams, yes, the NT is a key in the 3-4. I’ll give him some slack because CAR is a physical team. But if Williams is a little hobbled as Obviousman points out, it could be a long day for SD. If that is the case, Denver shouldn’t even need to pass much. (I believe that CAR played without their starting WR, which means they may have pushed Williams around quite a bit).
"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe
by Steve Nichols on Sep 11, 2008 3:20 PM MDT up reply actions
The quicker we get in on Rivers
the less time his receivers have to get separation, so I want to see us blitz despite the risk. But I’m worried about our run defense and our rushing attack. I’m aware that we should be able to run against their Phillips but nonetheless in the last few games we haven’t. Is it because their nose tackle plays two-gap? Maybe having a better o-line than last year will result in fewer running-into-a-wall experiences. Also, I didn’t think we were all that impressive running against Oakland, since run defense isn’t exactly their forte. And they picked up big chunks against us. But all that happened on the road, which made the blow-out all the more impressive. It’s a good thing we’ll be facing a desperate Chargers team at home. We’ll need all the support we can get.
"In the empty spaces - lacunae, vacuums, pauses, voids, black holes - new things begin. We are born anew from the unexplored space, the badlands, the outlaw territory." - Sam Keen
Lots of good observations Spock.
Williams will be asked to play more two gap than usual, but it isn’t his forte (just like DRob was asked to play 2 gap in the Jets Fairbanks-Bullough System). The adjustments the Chargers make (see the article I excerpted in the main post) work well because the Chargers have very good and athletic LBs (one of whom is out for the season).
Remember my axiom. Even though certain styles are great match-ups against other styles (giving a little edge), this can be negated by good coaching adjustments and even more by very good players. For example, a Pop Warner zone block (no such team) against a pro level Phillips isn’t going to work. The 7 year olds will lose every time. I give us the edge in system match-ups, but that only means the Chargers have to work harder to negate that edge.
I have mixed feelings on our run game against Oakland. It didn’t look consistent to me either, and yet our two RBs managed over 5 ypc each. We also didn’t run too much, instead airing out the ball. I think we may us the pass to set up the run (like we did in the “old days”), which should serve to spread the defense east-west. This should give our runners excellent chances up the middle. I’m eager to see if Shanahan goes this route.
"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe
by Steve Nichols on Sep 12, 2008 5:57 AM MDT up reply actions
OK, I'll put on my dunce cap and ask the stupid question
You state sd will likely play the 3-4 with one gap assignments (or something close). In the MHR University series the gaps have letters. Does this mean that in a one-gap assignment the defensive player is responsible for one gap? And in a two-gap assignment he is responsible two gaps? ie A and B gaps. I would think this would require him playing a heads up or very slightly on the shoulder technique (ie 0 or 1 for the NT). Where I am going with this is that if each of the sd front seven is responsible for one gap we should be able to get four yards up the middle on damn near every play. What would be wrong with four yards and a cloud of dust until they start bringing LB up to the line, then passes to the TE or WR should be successful. I mean, can you imagine a LB trying to cover Royal or Marshall one-on-one? I understand the philosophy of keeping the offense on the field ’ cuz that leads to fumbles, interceptions etc. but as long as Phyllis is on the bench he isn’t using the high-powered offense either.
I will shut up and listen. Thanks again for the great post. Recommended and buzzed!
That’s ok with me. We’re playing for wins, not media publicity....HT 9/11/08
Not at all a dumb question.
I’ll even repeat it. “Not at all a dumb question”. Most folks wouldn’t have the football knowledge to even have the question in the first place!
Yes, in a Phillips system ( the Phillips is only run out of the 3-4) the D-Linemen primarily have a particular gap on each play to “shoot” (penetrate).
In a two gap, the lineman will have responsibility for two gaps. On run plays he must cover both gaps in his assignment, so he won’t be “plugging a gap” or even “shooting” a gap so much as he will be tangling with an offensive lineman and then fighting towards the gap the RB takes. This requires much more power, strength, and bulk at the sacrifice of speed and agility. Most linemen can 1 or 2 gap, but most specialize in one or the other.
One is not better than the other. Each approach has advantages and disadvantages. We have a nice advantage against SD for two reasons. (1), the zone block keeps runs to the center, which is the direction that every “one cut” end up heading towards. 3-4 defenses are better at stopping edge runs because 3-4s are wider formations. (2), the cut blocking associated with zone blocking takes advantage of the slants taken by defensive linemen who one gap. It isn’t effective against 2 gappers, who are not slanting away from the O-Lineman.
But yes, we should get good yardage up the middle.
As for the “cloud of dust” idea, I think it is valid. Mind you, there is a system literaly named “…Cloud of Dust” that I wouldn’t use for this game (or even this team). But if you are speaking figuratively, then yes, I favor the team getting an early lead and controlling the clock with a powerful running game. My second key for Denver is to run well. I think we can win a shoot out with SD, but why not keep Gates, LT, and Chambers off the field? Let’s score early, then let our 5+ ypc running game wear down the defense.
Only a student of the MHR-University or a deep football fan would ask a question that has terms like “gaps” included. You know much more than you think! In fact, the answers you assumed were also correct, so give yourself extra credit!
"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe
by Steve Nichols on Sep 11, 2008 3:08 PM MDT up reply actions
Thanks for the explanation HT
The more I learn about what we are doing or at least trying to do, the more I enjoy the game. By the way, I was speaking figuratively (I’ve never heard of the Cloud of Dust System). If we get the early lead and then eat the clock with a 5 yard power running game I see good things happening. Another great post. Thanks.
That’s ok with me. We’re playing for wins, not media publicity....HT 9/11/08
Cloud of dust
Did a quick search on the net (I’m getting ready for dinner, so didn’t take the time to type up an entire description). Here’s the system:
“Three Yards and a Cloud of Dust”
Used to describe the run-heavy offenses such as run by Woody Hayes of Ohio State University in the 1950s and 1960s. A quarterback under Hayes would often throw fewer than 10 passes a game. Hayes is credited as saying “Three things can happen when you pass the ball, and two of them are bad”. This is a grind-it-out ball control offense that relies on time of possession and high percentage inside running off of handoffs to advance the ball down the field. Successful as it was, it was a slower-moving brand of football and is rarely used today above the high school level.
courtesy – wikipedia
So you can see, I wouldn’t favor it for Denver. Gosh FF! You’re so good you even stumbled onto a system! It must have at least been in your subconcious somewhere.
"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe
by Steve Nichols on Sep 11, 2008 4:24 PM MDT up reply actions
woody!
i didn’t realize they named a system after a quote from woody. i thought it was more of a description than a philosophy. woody is also known for “i am not a believer in the forward pass”. if anyone is running this system nowadays, they should be canned immediately
wasnt it woody
said about passing. “Only 3 things can happen when you pass and 2 of them are bad”
by broncfanstuckinsd on Sep 11, 2008 5:24 PM MDT up reply actions
This is because
unlike most on this site I was alive in the 50’s!
Seriously, if sd employes the Phillips system with Williams playing a two gap system and a 0 technique, Kuper and Wiegmann double team Williams and Harris has the angle on Castillo. We should get 5 yds every running play with the very good possibility of breaking a long one (or more).
As for woody….well I better leave that for another thread.
That’s ok with me. We’re playing for wins, not media publicity....HT 9/11/08
I know this scenario is overly simplistic
but I am really pumped about the possibility of us being able to run right up the middle against the chargers! I just really want to see Phyllis on his merry ass.
That’s ok with me. We’re playing for wins, not media publicity....HT 9/11/08
too funny, !(52 is my birth year, but, Sadly enough, I wasn't BORN a Bronco fan! I had to earn it!
by metalman5050 on Sep 11, 2008 7:06 PM MDT up reply actions
It's OK metalman
From your comments it is obvious you have acended unto the relm of Broncomaniac! Congratulations and welcome!
That’s ok with me. We’re playing for wins, not media publicity....HT 9/11/08
The 50's were the greatest
My sympathies to those who were not here to enjoy!!
I like a man who fights with a grin on his face. Winston Churchill.
bradley!!
I had no idea you were an old timer! By your comments I thought you were a youngster. Welcome aboard to the more mature generation of Bronco fans!
That’s ok with me. We’re playing for wins, not media publicity....HT 9/11/08
Baby boomers! Baaahhh
I was born in 59 and have been following you baby boomers all my life!
by Arctic Bronco on Sep 12, 2008 1:52 AM MDT up reply actions
Yep, an old timer.
Been around the sun 62 times. But I still think of myself as 20 something.
I like a man who fights with a grin on his face. Winston Churchill.
I'll be damned
You’re the same age as me.
"In the empty spaces - lacunae, vacuums, pauses, voids, black holes - new things begin. We are born anew from the unexplored space, the badlands, the outlaw territory." - Sam Keen
One small point though.
We won’t double team on running plays. In the zone block, the entire OL will move as one unit and block the person in each man’s zone. Whether Wiegmann or one of the guards gets Williams, the other 2 O-Linemen will probably penetrate to take a LB or get the DE. There is very little double teaming in ZB. Part of the advantage of zone blocking is that you aren’t taking a guy head-on, you are getting him from an angle. This means that (because he isn’t facing you) you don’t have to be as strong, just agile and quick.
"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe
by Steve Nichols on Sep 12, 2008 6:03 AM MDT up reply actions
I read a really good article on zone blocking awhile back
and the way it explained it is that the blockers double team but that one of the two then leaves the block and moves to the second level to pick off a linebacker. They have to be on the same page, of course, like a quarterback and his favorite receiver, so that they instantly make the same decision as to who stays with the block and who moves on. It has a lot to do with which way the defensive lineman is slanting. Is this not the way the Broncos do it, or is theirs a variation that doesn’t use double teaming?
"In the empty spaces - lacunae, vacuums, pauses, voids, black holes - new things begin. We are born anew from the unexplored space, the badlands, the outlaw territory." - Sam Keen
Good detail...
Is this not the way the Broncos do it, or is theirs a variation that doesn’t use double teaming?
What you read is correct. But in the case you bring up, the intent isn’t to double block at all. When the OL slants to one side, more than one OL-Man is bound to block the same defensive body. Because of good team work (the experience that comes from knowing how and what your team mates think) one of those OL-men knows to peal off and move to the next level.
This brings up another terrific point. This team work (knowing what the other guys on the line are doing without having to ask) is a perfect example of why offensive lines that have the same players year after year are so good. This unspoken communication is particularly important in zone blocking.
"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe
by Steve Nichols on Sep 12, 2008 1:17 PM MDT up reply actions
Training camp
Even though I had read your Mile High University classes on Zone blocking I don’t think it had really penetrated the old grey matter until training camp. Watching the entire line slant one way was a thing of beauty. Then to watch us essentially push the much larger Dallas defensive line around was impressive. It is a lot easier to make a successful block when you have the angle. Thanks again HT.
That’s ok with me. We’re playing for wins, not media publicity....HT 9/11/08
Three things can happen...
Hayes is credited as saying "Three things can happen when you pass the ball, and two of them are bad".
Some old time basketball coach said the same thing about passing the ball. Red what’s his name of the Celtics?
I like a man who fights with a grin on his face. Winston Churchill.
how do u do that? you come up with this stuff AND U put it in BLUE, like its no big deal! I'm still trying to capitalize when I should.
by metalman5050 on Sep 11, 2008 7:10 PM MDT up reply actions
how do you do that?
copy something like the following, and paste it into your comment, then highlight it and click on the little blue double tear symbol above (after the B I S ) try it
Some old time basketball coach said the same thing about passing the ball. Red what’s his name of the Celtics?
I like a man who fights with a grin on his face. Winston Churchill.
Here's a great way to learn some of the neat tricks for posting at MHR...
These three links are helpful:
"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe
by Steve Nichols on Sep 12, 2008 6:09 AM MDT up reply actions
If only the site....
…would make smiley faces available! ;)
I like a man who fights with a grin on his face. Winston Churchill.
I think that can be done...
…but is has to be done through pasting.
"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe
by Steve Nichols on Sep 12, 2008 12:27 PM MDT up reply actions
My 2 cents:
“Pick your poison: Gates or LT.” Okay, I pick Gates. He’s listed as questionable on a couple of sites I’ve looked at, and he looked less than impressive last week against the Panthers.
On defense, we don’t have the talent to match up with their offense, and the sooner our guys realize that, the better. It is possible to make up for that with playing smart, attacking football.
I would like to see the show blitz in full force this week, please. I want to see how well Phyllis can move on that bad knee. If we can get him out of the pocket, I think we can force him into mistakes that could turn the tide of the game.
I want to see our guys in the backfield before LDT can get the ball. We need to fly around the ball and make athletic plays, but we also need to make sure we tackle. I’d rather give up a 4 yard run every time than have LDT beat us with 65 yard runs.
I want to see just how good Jyles Tucker is in pass coverage. I think if we can get him in one on one situations with Scheff and Nate, then our TE’s will have a big day through the air.
I don’t care who our #1 tailback is. We need a solid outing out of all our guys in the backfield (like, say, last week) if we want to win. We’re not going to have a 125 yard rusher this week, we’re just not. We need all our guys to contribut, and if we can keep getting fresh legs in there we will have a much better chance of beating their 3-4.
Last, I think we need to win the time of possession battle if we expect to win. If we can hold on to the ball and keep their defense guessing, we will win even in a shootout.
1-0.
Good stuff as always Papi.
If Gates is out, the Chargers become one dimensional. Even so, we can lose if LT runs us over, so the danger isn’t completely over.
If Gates were out, we can put Manuel in the box safely. Bailey and Bly each out match their assignments, and McCree can play deep.
Now Webster or Boss can man LT while the other zones middle or strong respectively. The game is much more manageable without Gates playing 100%.
A show blitz would be a great match-up. Rivers gets rushed and makes mistakes, or he gets rattled seeing the massive blitz coming, but each player gets covered and Rivers rushes the throw for no reason (because no one actually blitzed him). I’m eager to see what scheme Slowik actually runs. This game should tell us. We were very vanilla against Oakland (because we could be).
"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe
by Steve Nichols on Sep 11, 2008 3:29 PM MDT up reply actions
I don't know about good stuff...
If your insight could be found at a five star restaurant, mine would be from McDonald’s.
The only thing I know is that I want to see Syhillis Rivers on his ass more often than not on Sunday. Go Broncos!
1-0.
Gates
is clearly not 100%. He has even said so himself. I would bet he splits time with Manumalena. That could be a good tell when Gates is in
by broncfanstuckinsd on Sep 11, 2008 5:29 PM MDT up reply actions
if that happens
then fillis dumps off to the first available reciever! It becomes a short yardage game. eat up the clock sort of thing, in the passing game. Who do you think will pick that up and intercept for a touchdown?
by metalman5050 on Sep 11, 2008 7:00 PM MDT up reply actions
Thanx 4 the input! Good points all around! I just hope that the SD head coach doesnt read this bog!
by metalman5050 on Sep 11, 2008 6:47 PM MDT up reply actions
I'm looking at things from the perspective of a...
former high school defensive coordinator. While I hope I can give fans a little more in-depth analysis than they can get in other quarters of the media, the pro level coaches would just chuckle and roll their eyes at anything I would contribute. : )
"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe
by Steve Nichols on Sep 12, 2008 6:13 AM MDT up reply actions
Gates Not 100% But Still Impressive
Your opinion that Gates “looked less than impressive” last week vs. the Panthers is not supported by the statistics:
Gates, Antonio REC 4 – TDS 61 – AV 15.3 – LNG 24T – 1st% 75.0%
While these might not be Pro Bowl numbers that you expect from Gates, they tied him for 6th overall after Week 1. A long way from “less than impressive”. He’s not 100% by his own admission, but still effective in the Chargers offense.
by Check Your Facts on Sep 12, 2008 12:57 PM MDT up reply actions
I'm not the one that made the comment,
…but you migh want to “check your context”. While Gates looked ok statisticay, most folks seem to agree that he didn’t look 100% physicaly (something that your title, and Gates own comments admit). This observation is even shared by Chargers fans.
The statistics are clearly not the context that people are talking about when they see Gates appearing to be injured.
"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe
by Steve Nichols on Sep 12, 2008 1:22 PM MDT up reply actions
Suggest that you reread my title and post....
My title agreed that he is clearly less than 100%. Papi’s opinion expressed that Gates was less than impressive. I’m pointing out that those are two completely different things. Gates’ performance on the field Sunday simply didn’t support his opinion. Nor does it support yours that he looked OK statistically.
by Check Your Facts on Sep 12, 2008 2:37 PM MDT up reply actions
Oh, I don't know.
A name like “Check Your Facts” sounds just enough oppositional enough, along with other statements you make ("laughable") in another thread, to make it seem that you just wanted a confrontation.
And I dont need to be corrected. Your statement that “My title agreed that he is clearly less than 100%” was already pointed out in MY statement “(something that your title, and Gates own comments admit)”
Now that it’s obvious that my reading comprehension is clear, I think we can both move on.
"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe
by Steve Nichols on Sep 12, 2008 3:57 PM MDT up reply actions
HEY MAN!
Yall need to “BUZZ UP!” put MHR on the map to the nation! Show the nation what a really good fan support should be. This Input, by HT should be shared in terms of how fans should be supported with in depth, insiteful information! 51 comments, 4 buz ups? Huh?
Thank you Hoosier Teacher for continuing to bring us the BEST!
by metalman5050 on Sep 11, 2008 4:23 PM MDT reply actions 2 recs
Thanks so much Metal.
I think we all do a pretty good job here, you included.
"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe
by Steve Nichols on Sep 11, 2008 4:25 PM MDT up reply actions
I appreciate your comment. I think it is the only one i have ever recieved, by anyone.
by metalman5050 on Sep 11, 2008 6:50 PM MDT up reply actions 2 recs
Way up in the very top by the title
is a little button. Just hit it. It will walk you through to set up a Yahoo account. It’s easy. Even old firstfan can do it. It helps spread the word about thje MHR. For posts like this I urge all to Buss Up and Recommend!
That’s ok with me. We’re playing for wins, not media publicity....HT 9/11/08
i never noticed it
good eye and we all should make this site more visible.
Though the end is near, Still I am not sorry
by broncfanstuckinsd on Sep 11, 2008 6:57 PM MDT up reply actions
Regardless of who is matched up with who,
we need to make sure SD doesn’t get any unnecessary yards. Like the ones when mistackling occurs or any stupid mistakes. I am confident this wont happen however since this is a BIG home game against a divisional opponent I felt it was worth mentioning.
If we keep Cutler upright and don’t turn the ball over then I think we will be fine.
"It doesn't dissipate" ~ Mike Shanahan
RATS!
I spent a long time on my article. I could have just said what Weazel said and saved myself a lot of time!
"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe
by Steve Nichols on Sep 12, 2008 6:15 AM MDT up reply actions
Special Teams Mismatch
I enjoyed reading your take on the game, but I think your comparison of the special teams being EVEN is almost laughable.
Placekicking: Broncos have basically unproven Prater vs. statistically top 5 Kaeding — clear advantage CHARGERS
Punting: Broncos have unproven Kern vs. #2 statistical punter over last two years Scifres — clear advantage CHARGERS
Coverage Units — Broncos units statistically in bottom 5 of league in 2007 vs. Chargers top 10 lead by previous two year Pro Bowler Kassim Osgood — clear advantage CHARGERS
Check these facts out for more info: http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/teamst2007.php
While I do think the game will be close, expect special teams play of the Chargers will be superior. Possibly even a deciding factor.
by Check Your Facts on Sep 12, 2008 12:42 PM MDT reply actions
Some of your points are well taken
but where the Broncos were statistically in 2007 isn’t necessarily relevant. This is 2008. The Broncos’ coverage improved from the beginning to the end of last year under O’Brien, and I think it’s improved some more since. The Raiders’ first kickoff return suggests that the Broncos still aren’t where they want to be, but they also stopped them several times shy of the 20, plus Prater gets touchbacks far more frequently than Elam. I still give the Chargers an edge, but maybe not as big an edge as you’re assuming.
"In the empty spaces - lacunae, vacuums, pauses, voids, black holes - new things begin. We are born anew from the unexplored space, the badlands, the outlaw territory." - Sam Keen
I enjoyed reading your take on the article,
but I won’t act childish by calling your views laughable.
Last year (and two years ago) is last year (and two years ago), and if we are going that route we might as well look further into the past, right? Of course not. I’m using this year as a starting point. Based on what I have seen so far this year, including a major improvement in returns and coverage, as well as a statisticaly nice kicking and punting start for Denver, I don’t yet see the advantage for SD that you would call clear. I believe that current stats are best when comparing teams, not “Chargers top 10 lead by previous two year ”.
Thanks for the thoughts.
"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe
by Steve Nichols on Sep 12, 2008 1:29 PM MDT up reply actions
Check Your Facts, ever heard of Lehman Brothers
Their saying was “Past performance cannot guarantee future success”.
That rings true for every fan of every team. I hate when people talk about last year and relate it to this year. This year is different. The teams have different personnel on ALL units.
Just because Matt Prater is in his first full season, he’s no better and no worse than Nate Kaeding, who I think is an above average kicker. In fact Nate Kaeding was the #11 kicker, statistically last year, so, I’d..um…check your facts.
This year, both Prater and Kaeding have made all of thier kicks. All 3 of ‘em. Prater made a 43 yarder as his longest, and Kaeding made a 27 yarder. They have made each extra point. Where they differ is that Prater has kicked off 8 times, 2 have been touchbacks, that’s 25% of his kickoffs, so far, are touchbacks, and that’s at sea-level in California. Kaeding has kicked off 5 times, and all 5 have been returnable, that’s also at sea level in California. So far, in 2008, I’d say Prater’s having a better year.
Kern and Scifres are averaging 38.5 (Kern) and 40.3 (Scifres) yards per punt. Kern’s punted 2 times, and Scifres 5 times. So far, Scifres is having a better year.
I would say the kicking games, in 2008, at this point, are evenly matched until proven diffrently.
So I can assume....
that when drafting a fantasy team it doesn’t matter who you choose because they all start as equal at the beginning of the season.
by Check Your Facts on Sep 12, 2008 3:02 PM MDT up reply actions
When it comes to kickers, yes.
You take a kicker who plays for a team that has a high scoring offense, right?
If it wasn’t for PAT’s in 2007, Kaeding would have been much lower on the list of kickers than he is.
Stephen Gostkowski is a great example. If he played for Miami last year, he’s have spent the year on the waiver wire, but because he played for the Pats, he was a top kicker pick.
Same for Kaeding and Prater. Who’s the better kicker? No idea.
So, it has nothing to do with quality of special teams player or unit, like most things in fantasy football, it has everyting to do with offense.
Now, fantasy football is OBVIOUSLY NOT a reflection of real football. It doesn’t take into account a ton of things that make a great player an great player.
Tell you what.
If I write an article about drafting fantasy teams, you’re more than welcome to use prior years as an argument. Changing the subject doesn’t make your first point. I may just be an old football coach, but I do know a straw man argument when I see one.
"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe
by Steve Nichols on Sep 12, 2008 4:14 PM MDT up reply actions
My point about drafting fantasy teams...
was simply taking your logic of ignoring 2007 special team stats to its illogical result that prior stats and performances have no predicitive value. As I pointed out previously, you’ve used past performances of prior years to illustrate and support your analysis for this game. Bottom line is that I think you’re ignoring valuable information in this instance.
As for building straw man arguments, I thought this was a more obvious example:
“Last year (and two years ago) is last year (and two years ago), and if we are going that route we might as well look further into the past, right? Of course not.”
by Check Your Facts on Sep 14, 2008 8:18 AM MDT up reply actions
Nice try.
My statement can’t be construed as a straw man by any means. I used your argument (verbatim even), and drew a conclusion. That’s not substitution of an argument that neither side is making. On top of it, I dismissed the line of reasoning by adding “Of course not”. Where’s the original proposition? Where’s the change?
No fallacy, no foul.
"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe
by Steve Nichols on Sep 15, 2008 12:57 PM MDT up reply actions
Just a few final comments:
You danced around all the hard facts arguments and used classic misdirection rather than answering them.
Here is some Denver Post hometown beat writer comments on those “evenly matched” Bronco special teams:
“Rookie punter Brett Kern is also showing plenty of leg, although he got away with a couple low, deep punts Sunday. It’s what they call outkicking his coverage. I’m sure the Broncos would like him to exchange a few more yards of depth for height. But he has performed beyond the usual expectations for rookie punters.”
“Your concern regarding the Broncos’ kick coverage is justified. They allowed a 58-yard kickoff return in the opener to Oakland’s Johnnie Lee Higgins, who would have scored had he not been chased down by Champ Bailey. The Broncos then allowed a 103-yard touchdown return Sunday to San Diego’s Darren Sproles. Part of the coverage problem will be alleviated once Matt Prater regains his touchback groove. He’s had three touchbacks in 12 kickoffs this year, but he would admit he’s capable of a couple more. And two of the Broncos’ best special teams cover players, Louis Green and Hamza Abdullah, have been hobbled by leg injuries.”
I think you’d have to agree that the Broncos special teams were outperformed in the game. Had it not been for an errant referee’s call, that special team TD would have been seen as the big game changer.
by Check Your Facts on Sep 17, 2008 1:00 PM MDT up reply actions
I didn't mean to insult you.....
but I had to laugh when you compared the two special teams as even. If you can find any other source that agrees with you, I’ll be shocked.
While I would agree that coverage schemes and players are more dynamic between years, I don’t think you can completely ignore past performance when it comes to placekicking and punting. Certainly those players prior performance are relevant.
Other parts of your comparisons do take prior situations and performances in past years to draw conclusions.
by Check Your Facts on Sep 12, 2008 2:51 PM MDT up reply actions
Past years clearly don't account for this year.
Our team is 1-0, your team is 0-1. That’s not predicated on last year. The injuries your team has suffered can’t be used if valuing last year. Our “rookie of the week” wasn’t around last year. There are many issues in this light.
Using this preseason and game one as a base, the STs are equal. In fact, if I gave any benefits of the doubt to anybody, it was to the Chargers. For example, your defensive line (in my mind) was just shaking of some rust in game one. They are typically a strong unit, so I gave an edge to your NT. But base on this year (all that matters for the playoffs is “this year”), your guys don’t look so good. Both STs look average so far, and that’s how I see it. You are welcome to write a post about the vast superiority of the Chargers STs going into Sunday’s game (here or at the Bolts site). But if you are just going to visit someone else’s site to disagree, do it with class. “Laughable” just doesn’t cut it.
"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe
by Steve Nichols on Sep 12, 2008 4:05 PM MDT up reply actions
Some reasoning to apply to the Broncos
is that there is no “last year” for our STs… they have literally been rebuilt from the ground up.
We have 9 drafted and free agent rookies, and Prater is essentially a rookie, having spent some time on the team last year watching elam kick. Kern has a record (again, literally) around the league (one other team that I know of for sure), but he has never been in one place long enough to get a read on, and he was dropped at the time for off the field problems. On the field Kern has been nothing short of deadly, with great punts that get a lot of air under them. I will agree that Prater is not as good as Kaeding, but he has a stronger leg, and thus far in preseason and one game, his play has improved leaps and bounds, and he seems very steady right now, as well as accurate and strong. Our punt coverage unit is composed mostly of veterans, and I have my questions about it, but our rookie coverage units and blocking units are extraordinary for having such young players.
We can’t use past performance very often for the 2008 Broncos, especially on special teams, because the team is just too darn young. All HT was trying to do was describe the matchups based on what he has seen so far. SD has been shaky with no real signs that they are about to come out of what would, admittedly, be a funk, while Denver seems primed to get better with every game. Saying that, for this matchup, in week 2, Denver and SD seem evenly matched on STs, seems emminently fair to me, and puts the burden of proof where it belongs, on the players executing on the field.
Mountains, forest, sea: these render man fierce, but yet do not destroy the man.
by Jeremy Bolander on Sep 12, 2008 6:38 PM MDT up reply actions
punters
brett kern is a cfa rookie out of toledo. you may have been thinking of sam paulescu, i think? another rookie in kern, though, to add to your point. i believe we have 11 rookies on the roster, practice squad, and “reserve” lists. correct me if i’m wrong. that is nuts, and great scouting
I think I am completely
and totally screwed up on Kern. :) I will try to sort myself out….
Mountains, forest, sea: these render man fierce, but yet do not destroy the man.
by Jeremy Bolander on Sep 13, 2008 10:01 AM MDT up reply actions
We know, CYF
We’re just making a point that 2008 in now way can be predicted by any other year.
It’s friday and we’re all FIRED UP!
Can ya blame us?

by 






























