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Defensive Adjustments and What They Say About the 2008 Denver Broncos


Bob Slowik Has Some Work To Do

Whether we are talking about our defense in 2008, last year's defense or last quarter's defense, one thing will always be eminently true:  defenses need to adjust.  The changes can be scheme, personnel, technique, or even timing or rotations.

But every adjustment isn't perfect.  A team tries one thing for particular reasons, such as bringing a safety into the box to prevent the run, while sacrificing their ability against the pass.  If you adjust, you open yourself up to other problems, in order to capitalize on some benefit you are keying in on.

In short, adjustments don't happen in a vacuum.  They all feature various levels of risk/reward.

For our fledgeling 2008 defense, Hoosierteacher sat down with me to take a look at a handful of potential adjustments the Broncos could make to even off the Broncos defensive performance after two weeks that featured concerning lapses, with the latest lapse leading to a shootout where either team had equal shots at the win.  In looking at these adjustments and how they would affect the Broncos we found ourselves asking questions about the Broncos current scheme, their long term plans, and their weaknesses.  The results are intriguing.

Star-divide

Adjustment #1:  Jack Williams

It is almost never a good thing to hear a cornerbacks name getting called, throughout the course of a game.  Their work occurs offscreen for the most part and a successful play from them is predominately a non-play.

So when Karl Paymah features extensively in the Charger's gameplan, including a critical play on the Charger's final drive, where but for a slightly errant pass that carried the receiver out of bounds, would have surely put the Chargers within distance of a makeable fieldgoal, an adjustment needs to be made.

20080427__20080428_b08_sp28williams_p1_200_medium
via extras.mnginteractive.com

Within the game itself, and particularly on that drive, where the sideline is such valuable territory, switching Bly to the outside WR from his slot/zone coverage in the middle of the field would certainly have seemed like a viable move.  But over the longer term we have to ask ourselves what is missing on the edge, and how we can keep Bly where he is more effective, swiveling in space and staying with receivers out of the slot.  Paymah brings a height and weight matchup that looks good in one-on-one matchups on paper, yet he is asked to play off, allowing receivers to drive him off of their routes, opening space for quick completions underneath.   Paymah reacts as well as one could ask of a DB against whom completions are being consistently made, but what is missing?

Speed.

Hoosierteacher:  Williams has the quality I love, which is speed.  For a CB, speed does so many things.  It helps to prevent being outrun for one.  It also helps for covering mistakes.  It also helps a CB to get position to break up a pass.   It has many applications that one might not have thought of on first glance. For example, speed is momentum, and can add force to a tackle.  Speed allows for errors, since a fast player is more likely to get back in the play if he has been tricked. Speed means less time for an opponent to make decisions. Speed means less chance of being seen during a play. Speed on defense means a greater opportunity to be involved in ending the play.

Williams also brings an adjustment to the defensive side of the ball that could help in terms of bringing about more aggressive playcalling.  He has the traits of a good man corner, even though his background is in zone.  Like Champ and Bly he has great "swivel speed", and excellent acceleration.  His preseason work indicated that he is aggressive around the ball, with great hands and vision, and an ability to get involved in the play.  And like the young players we have brought in on offense, he has that exciting drive and tenacity that not only energizes fans, but intimidates opponents.  By playing him up close to the receiver, knowing that he can compensate with his speed, opposing offenses won't get an automatic checkoff on the outside when he lines up, and the QBs will be forced to take their time and go through their progressions normally, which can aid the pass rush.

But there is a tradeoff.  Paymah has experience running Slowik's plays, and though he often backed off of the line, he had a size mismatch on medium and smaller receivers.  Additionally, Williams size is what led to his status as a second day pick rather than a first day pick, and his recognition was considered weak against double moves.  To assuage those concerns somewhat I would merely point out that as a successful zone corner in college, he could recognize plays and that most of us would agree that size is overrated in a corner.  But these are still tradeoffs and should be considered.

Adjustment #2:  Jarvis Moss

The pass rush is lacking.  Understatement?  Perhaps.  It was lacking last year as well, and we seem to be asking the same guys to do the same things as we did towards the end of the year.  With DOOM still waiting to have pins removed from his thumbs, and a run specialist in Engleberger getting the only DE sack, some kind of adjustment, even a temporary one, is in order.  And again, I advocate speed.  By stretching the boundaries of the oline, we can create a soft-center to aid our, to this point, unproductive DTs.  But Moss' deactivation in two games thus far indicates that we would take a SERIOUS hit against the run.

Hoosierteacher:  Tough call.  Yes, we need a pass rush very much. But I'm thinking Moss is not making a good impression on the coaches, or he would be out there.  EK is at least a known quality.  Despite his run stopping role, he was pretty decent in hurry ups last year.  I may be overly simplistic, but I'm thinking Moss must be looking terrible in practice to not be seeing the field.

Concerns about a D-Lineman's "bust potential" in only his second year, and after only his eight potential start, merit some serious deliberation.  What has he shown to cause such concern?  The answer is "Nothing."  And that is the problem.

Jarvismosssm_medium
via profilessports.com

Putting that performance record into a game is a huge risk.  And increasing the speed on the outside pass rush would come at the cost of allowing big runs if Moss were to show a lack of discipline or recognition at this early stage of his career, both better than likely propositions.

But nothing risked, nothing earned.  I advocate finding out sooner than later what we have in a player, when he is under the lights.

 

Adjustment #3:  Get the SS out of the Box

Let me be 100% clear here:  this will NEVER happen.  But lets bat the idea around a little bit.

Shanahan understands what it means to be a team that can't stop the run.  You lose things that, at their root, devastate your defense, things that the pass doesn't begin to exploit.  HT explains:

Hoosierteacher:  One reason that Denver is probably leaving a SAF in the box is the fear every coach has of being run over.  Everything else that a defensive coordinator deals with can be fixed in game.  But when a team is running the ball down your throat (as happened last year), you lose everything.  The opposing team picks up yards, first downs, eats up the clock, gets points, and wears down your players.  Worn down players STAY worn down, and are also more prone to injury.  And here's another thought:

Denver may be so confident in the offensive attack machine that we have, that they would much rather face a shootout that they think they can win.  Opposing teams would be very wise to run the ball to keep our offense off of the field, and that may be what we are doing.

What is interesting is how advocating a move to a much more well rounded defense seems to indicate a deeper defensive trend, or lack thereof.  At its root, moving the SS back can stop teams from scoring, and provide opportunities to change momentum, or outright dominate, allowing our excellent ball-hawking man corners to read the play and play between the receiver and the ball, knowing that they have a safety behind them.  With the skill of our corners, this philosophy should pay off more than it doesn't.

Yet not only do we not do this, we don't consider it even.  And beyond that even, is the cardinal sin of playing a player out of position, the key to creating mismatches for the offense:

Hoosierteacher:  I don't like it.  The defense doesn't have to be great, but it needs to be at least decent.  Without the pass rush, our CBs have no help up front.  Without the SAFs playing over-coverage, they have no help in back.  If Denver really wants to play a SS in the box, they might as well play a 46 defense.  What they are doing now is using the SS as a SAF out of position though, instead of being committed to a true 46 role.  I don't like the 46 (at all), but at least it would have us playing in purposeful system.

So what is our purpose?

Defensive Adjustments:  Building for the future

We insist on playing a player out of position.  The D-Line works in a state of retraction, favoring a steady push over backfield havoc.  The LBs spend more time in coverage then they do attacking the offense.

This is a defense that is buying itself time.

The big question is, Time for what?  It is obvious that what they are doing right now isn't the end all of Broncos Defensive Philosophy.  In fact, it doesn't even resemble a Bronco's defense.  What are they waiting for?

One thought is that they simply haven't picked up on Slowik's defensive scheme, and that, like a good teacher, rather than bog them down in pragmatic adjustments that serve no long term purpose, Slowik is drilling them in the fundamentals needed to be a strong second half of the season team.  Playing a safety out of position to adjust, rather than a member of the front seven, seems to indicate that this is the case.

But the use of the front seven, the core of the defense, seems to indicate another, much less satisfactory route, in terms of 2008 success.  Shanahan spent years rebuilding his offense, and relying on his ability to coach and gameplan in order to remain competitive.  The goal was an offense that couldn't be stopped, yet was salary cap friendly.  With the LBs not playing to the strength of a scheme (any recognizable scheme) and a dline that prioritizes steadiness over impact, their seems to be an implicit endictment of our current personnel, at least at some positions and some levels.  Our defense is being asked to play like a backup QB, manage the game and don't make mistakes, and don't get in the way of the offense.

Whether it is some brilliant scheme yet to be installed by Slowik, or the infusion of a particular level of talent, this is a defense that lies in wait.  Not in hiding, and not holding anything back, but just exercising a frustrating (too fans) level of patience when it comes to asserting itself with consistency.

I'll let HT have the last word:

Hoosierteacher:  Right now, I think Shanahan is relying on the following long term strategic vision:

1. This is a year to gel young talent on the offense for years to come.  Accordingly, Cutler will be given the playbook, and will air out the ball to get the practice he (and the young receivers) need to be stars for years to come.

2. For this year, it looks like we may be a shoot out team on offense which can't rely on total help from the defense.  Because the offense is complete, Denver can spend the next several years focused on the defense.

3. Despite not being designed for a SB this year, the team will attempt it.  They have an excellent shot at the playoffs, but will struggle if they don't find a footing on defense against the elite teams in the playoffs.

4. Next year, Denver may go "all in".  They may use trades, the draft, and FA to attract playmakers on defense.  Next year's offense will continue to be elite.  In my mind, the real push for a SB (and a dynasty) start in '08.

Many readers won't want to hear that, particularly with the team at 2-0.  But an all out offense with little defense is not a good thing.  We at least need a good and consistent defense.

 

Poll
Should the Broncos be looking at Defensive adjustments this early in the season?
Yes. Our pass rush needs to be addressed.
615 votes
Yes. Our coverage issues needs to be addressed.
133 votes
No. These things just need time to develop.
107 votes
No. The defense is performing effectively, and that will show with time.
20 votes

875 votes | Poll has closed

18 recs | Comment 236 comments | Digg!

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Big thanks to HT as well

As busy as he is he still found time to help me put this together.

Mountains, forest, sea: these render man fierce, but yet do not destroy the man.

by styg50 on Sep 17, 2008 12:16 PM MDT to parent up   0 recs

Great stuff

Also, I think that our coverage is not as big as a problem as some might think. If you look around the league, QBs were having great games everywhere, and how many times did we see pass interference or illegal contact this weekend? A LOT. The new rules restricting DBs are making it even harder to cover receivers, and making receivers all around the league look better than they are. Fixing the pass rush will help out the corners and we will see less completions and less penalties.

by studbucket on Sep 17, 2008 11:06 AM MDT   0 recs

DBs got a little help

with the pushout rule, but I think you are right.

Defenses will start catching up as the season goes on adn they have a chance to start reacting. It is like a macroscopic version of what happens in an individual game… offense initaites plays, defense reacts.

Mountains, forest, sea: these render man fierce, but yet do not destroy the man.

by styg50 on Sep 17, 2008 12:17 PM MDT to parent up   0 recs

Buzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

Great post. At first I read the title and said to myself, “Oh boy, here we go again!” as I had flashbacks to similar story titles early last season. Alas, the title was misleading and I came away with a totally different feel for this team than I did before I read it.

We are the Colts early in the decade…all offense, no defense. This 2008 Bronco team really does have a 1995-96 Bronco feeling to it. We went all out in the offseason between 96-97 and brought in tons of help on defense(Neil Smith, Darrien Gordon, & co. ), the result was back to back Super Bowls.

It makes you wonder why Shanny is stockpiling picks….

If God is not a Bronco fan, then WHY are sunsets Blue and Orange? - Jon Tollerud 5/22/08

I got a high ankle sprain in college and it still hurts! ~ TSG 8/13/08

by Zappa on Sep 17, 2008 11:15 AM MDT   0 recs

we are exactly like the early colts, with better corners

hear me, perpetrators of bread crime, your punishment is at hand.
taste my blintzkrieg!

by davecheffy on Sep 17, 2008 11:48 AM MDT to parent up   0 recs

better corners and a worse pass rush. lol

If God is not a Bronco fan, then WHY are sunsets Blue and Orange? - Jon Tollerud 5/22/08

I got a high ankle sprain in college and it still hurts! ~ TSG 8/13/08

by Zappa on Sep 17, 2008 11:58 AM MDT to parent up   0 recs

great write up, but...

Before Denver does anything earth shattering, we have a bit of truth to swallow:

Phil Rivers is playing unbelievable football. He was better in the last 2 weeks combined than I have ever seen him. In fact, aside from Cutler, I’m not sure if anyone’s looked better than Rivers. He doesn’t complete more than 64% of his passes, but he’s been unreal in the middle to deep zones.

Denver did what they came to do on defense, which is bottle up the run. The problem they found was that they couldn’t multi-task.

San Diego was outrageously good on offense on Sunday. That’s a fact. In fact, they were a much different team with a beat-up LT on the sidelines. They were better.

Denver’s defense was on its heels reacting to something they didn’t gameplan for. I know its an excuse but I am by no means advocating that Denver’s defense if fine as-is.

I say that San Diego, although they’re 0-2 are one of the top 5 or 6 teams on any given Sunday. They’re gonna make most teams look bad. Denver happened to find out that Paymah hasn’t progressed and that they need better speed from their CBs and DEs. I honestly think that if Moss was active for the Charger game that he’d have played just about every defensive down in the 3rd quarter, when Denver was reeling.

I think Denver needs more tools at their disposal (Moss, Williams, Woodyard being active and maybe part of a ‘big lead/dime unit’) and a more thourough idea of what happens if we get up big in the game, which is something that Slowik must have learned a few days ago. It’s weird to gameplan for being up by 17 points, but you have to have the ability to say, well at least we worked on this scenario, which I highly doubt they were working on prior to this week.

In a nutshell, what I am advocating is that if we’re gonna play in shootout games, we should work on our defensive scheme for that scenario if it happens.

by super7 on Sep 17, 2008 11:23 AM MDT   1 recs

Guru said something similar to me today

along the lines of Shanny wanting his defense to play to get the ball back, ASAP. I’m sure it will come up on MHR radio tonight.

You bring up a name I really wanted to include as an adjustment, but couldn’t figure out how: Wesley Woodyard.

HT mentions that if we insist on playing Manuel out of position (and HT is here referring to using Manuel as a 4th LB despite his other skills) that we should just go 46 (which he doesn’t reccomend).

What if we just replaced Manuel with Woodyard every so often? Why not play him like a LB in a 4-4 set up, if we are going to use a 4-4 formation anyways? Great tackler, hard hitter and very fast… all he lacks is recognition, but after seeing how he always finds a way to get into a play (an ability I haven’t seen so explicitly on tape since I reviewed tape of Lynch last year) I’m hoping the coaching staff isn’t selling him too short on that aspect…

Getting a big dose of the youthful fire that has helped so much on offense could do wonders for this defense, even if nothing else changed…

Mountains, forest, sea: these render man fierce, but yet do not destroy the man.

by styg50 on Sep 17, 2008 12:15 PM MDT to parent up   0 recs

does it matter much

that Denver was playing a 3-2-6 for most of the SD game. To me that takes away a real strong rush presence. I would have rather have them rushing 4.

Love is a razor and I have walked the line on that silver blade

by broncfanstuckinsd on Sep 17, 2008 12:39 PM MDT to parent up   0 recs

absolutely

that version of the dime, especially with LBs as DBs is guaranteed to lack a rush. To my knowledge it is calle dwith the intention of SEVERLY limiting a particular throw (liek a deep or sideline pass) while making allowances in other areas (which is why it is a 3rd and very long defense). The only pressure you get there is from an act of will by a lineman. DOOM has that will, but I doubt everyone else. Thomas has the talent, but it hasn’t been realized yet.

Mountains, forest, sea: these render man fierce, but yet do not destroy the man.

by styg50 on Sep 17, 2008 12:43 PM MDT to parent up   0 recs

Was last week

probably just a bad game defensively, which I tend to think, Coming in I felt that they were not gonna let LT beat them. Well he didnt do that. But it seems to me outside of the Chambers 48 yard TD pass Sd just went to a intermediate passing game. THe Sproled screen pass for 6 should have been stopped. Now, I feel there has been 2 major things on the pass defense lack of rush and poor tackling/. Plus I am already tired of Webster. Sure he is fast but his effing over pursuit is wearing thin. I would rather see K2 in there and a steady defense. (Was Al Wilson faster than K2?) I am not overly upset or concerned (yet). I think Denver is gonna have a good game this week, a poor running team and not a good passing team as it could have been if Colston had played. I would blitz more this week, but I digress

Love is a razor and I have walked the line on that silver blade

by broncfanstuckinsd on Sep 17, 2008 12:50 PM MDT to parent up   0 recs

last week

almost need to be kind of ignored. That game basically got out of hand (what is it with games against SD getting out of hand?) and turned into an imposition of wills by both teams offense on eachothers defense. I agree with your assesment of their attitude going into it, and the way they dominated the first half.

I am looking forward to seeing what kind of things denver does defensively this week. It’ll probably lead to a whole nother glut of posts, just like this. Hopefully for a good reason.

Mountains, forest, sea: these render man fierce, but yet do not destroy the man.

by styg50 on Sep 17, 2008 12:56 PM MDT to parent up   0 recs

Thanks

(was this the post your were talking about yesterday?)
Great post by you and HT. Excellent

Love is a razor and I have walked the line on that silver blade

by broncfanstuckinsd on Sep 17, 2008 12:59 PM MDT to parent up   0 recs

it is

Mountains, forest, sea: these render man fierce, but yet do not destroy the man.

by styg50 on Sep 17, 2008 1:15 PM MDT to parent up   0 recs

You'll love Chalk Talk tomorow afternoon.

I started it with the idea that the Saints should be a darkhorse pick for a deep playoff run in the NFC. When I did the research, I saw Denver in the driver’s seat on both sides of the ball.

"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe

by hoosierteacher on Sep 17, 2008 12:56 PM MDT to parent up   0 recs

i was looking

at how bad they were beaten by Washington. If not for a PR by Bush it would have been worse. Plus the skins are not an offence powerhouse and NO gave up over 300 yds passing and over 150 rushing with 4.8 ypc. Cutler has to be salvitating

Love is a razor and I have walked the line on that silver blade

by broncfanstuckinsd on Sep 17, 2008 1:01 PM MDT to parent up   0 recs

Add in a lot of injuries to key starters,

poor tackling, and a few other fun points I’ll save until the story goes up, it should be a ling game for NO.

"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe

by hoosierteacher on Sep 17, 2008 1:02 PM MDT to parent up   0 recs

but the offense for the skins

IS designed to be a powerhouse. i was advocating Portis and Moss in fantasy leagues as steals (or at least underrated). Their offense can be expected to flash, though it won’t really shine without Campell getting it under his belt.

Mountains, forest, sea: these render man fierce, but yet do not destroy the man.

by styg50 on Sep 17, 2008 1:16 PM MDT to parent up   0 recs

Welllll

After watching the game against the NY Giants the way they could not move the ball, I dont think NY has the same defense as the year before and am unimpressed with Campbell. Maybe in a year or two. But I think the skins success was a combo of things NO’s sucking badly on defense and the success of running the ball. But I could be way off also

Love is a razor and I have walked the line on that silver blade

by broncfanstuckinsd on Sep 17, 2008 1:46 PM MDT to parent up   0 recs

I have decided to pick and choose when to start Moss or Portis.

Shanny trusts his gut, so should I.

If God is not a Bronco fan, then WHY are sunsets Blue and Orange? - Jon Tollerud 5/22/08

by Zappa on Sep 17, 2008 2:30 PM MDT to parent up   0 recs

exactly

I wouldn’t bet money on the skins, but they are gonna get a few good ones before the year is over.

Your not way off bfsisd. In time the offense should rock, barring some major setback. Right now I expect that they will be one step forward, two steps back.

Mountains, forest, sea: these render man fierce, but yet do not destroy the man.

by styg50 on Sep 17, 2008 3:09 PM MDT to parent up   0 recs

It appears the Redskins do exactly the opposite of what I expect them too do.

I picked them to beat the NYG, then picked them to lose to NO. My old man is a redskins fan so I am going to pick them every week starting next week. :)

If God is not a Bronco fan, then WHY are sunsets Blue and Orange? - Jon Tollerud 5/22/08

by Zappa on Sep 17, 2008 3:42 PM MDT to parent up   0 recs

If that is the case

I would continue to play the “opposite” card. Starting them every week might not be a very good idea. I expect their offense to go in spurts, but sustained spurts. Theyare a 9-7 team in that division, so look for tehir division games to be the games that lead to downward slumps (1 or 2 games) and don’t underestimate tehir abiltiy to come out of a slump vs. worse teams.

Mountains, forest, sea: these render man fierce, but yet do not destroy the man.

by styg50 on Sep 19, 2008 12:17 PM MDT to parent up   0 recs

Woodyard brings speed and intensity

I would love to see him on the field more, whether at SS in the box or LB. He reads his keys fast and gets to the ball in a hurry. This version of the Denver defense looks like a good environment for him to learn defense at the NFL level.

by Arctic Bronco on Sep 17, 2008 3:15 PM MDT to parent up   0 recs

Frankly, in my mind

the only thing he is missing is reps in the defens. It is such a huge problem that he is backing up DJ, our best LB, and maybe one of the best in the league. If we just try and insert Woodyard here and there, I think that does him a disservice and puts him in a position to be mismatched against, but if we can trust slowik enough, maybe that is the best option, sicne great defensive playcalling should put Wesley in a position to be successful.

I actually think Moss’ success (if it materializes) could be a catalyst for getting Woodyard some laying time. (more on that later).

Mountains, forest, sea: these render man fierce, but yet do not destroy the man.

by styg50 on Sep 19, 2008 12:20 PM MDT to parent up   0 recs

I think option one and two in the poll are essentially the same!

Our coverage looks bad partly because we aren’t getting any pressure. Take the Coyer blueprint out of the cellar and implement it. I want to see 9 guys on the los who all look like they are going to blitz. Have we seen that once? I don’t buy that we just don’t have enought talent. The scheme is pathetic. I feel like Slowik is a politician that I voted for that made a ton of promises and has proceded to follow through on none of them. He seems to be playing it safe which will get you nowhere in the NFL. Even the blitzes he did send were very vanilla and very predictable. The problem is fixable this year…but it will take a little courage in the playcalling and faith in our player’s abilities.

by UnarmingMermaid on Sep 17, 2008 11:28 AM MDT   0 recs

yeah

I suck at polls. :)

One blitz in particular bothered me last game: DJ and (I think) Webster came in on a delayed blitz inside the LT and LG. A RGB had to pick them both up. We are talking two fast, heavy hitters, and the back can only get one of them. Sure sack right? Har. The RB clogs the lane a little and the LBs didn’t look like they knew who was supposed to get peeled of and who would get the glory. Result: little RB blocks 2 big LBs, and Phyllis completes a pass.

Mountains, forest, sea: these render man fierce, but yet do not destroy the man.

by styg50 on Sep 17, 2008 11:57 AM MDT to parent up   0 recs

You are bringing back images I don't want to relive for a long long time.

I recall that exact play too dammit. lol

If God is not a Bronco fan, then WHY are sunsets Blue and Orange? - Jon Tollerud 5/22/08

I got a high ankle sprain in college and it still hurts! ~ TSG 8/13/08

by Zappa on Sep 17, 2008 11:59 AM MDT to parent up   0 recs

Wheres Moss?!?!

All these young guys we are grooming, we are missing essentially what should be the biggest talent. Is there some reason he isn’t even making the active game day rosters? Is he really that bad at this point? I feel with the money he is owed and our need to resign many top talents at around the same time hes going to get an axe sooner then later. Will he get a chance to play this week?

by GreasyQtip on Sep 17, 2008 11:34 AM MDT   0 recs

If I was a betting man

I think he gets activated for New Orleans, but primarily because they are a team that passes so well, and because their (alleged) rushing threat, bush, is a speedy outside the tackles kimd of player, where Moss’ speed might help.

But If Shanny and co. are buying into the wisdom presented above, the real test is whether he gets activated for KC the week after, as they are a team that is 20-1 or something ridiculous when LJ gets over 25 carries a game. (I assume KC is bound to realize that before too long, right?)

Mountains, forest, sea: these render man fierce, but yet do not destroy the man.

by styg50 on Sep 17, 2008 12:03 PM MDT to parent up   0 recs

I agree

if Moss doesn’t start against the running game repressed ‘Aints, he’s not starting anytime soon.

Back during training camp, some savy MHR member quipped that if the Broncos required Montrae Holland to lose weight before playing/practicing, then they should sit Moss until he put on some muscle. Do you think the Broncos have simply hired these guys to “pump Moss up!” I sure hope so!

I wish Woody Paige was our coach!

by bcfunk on Sep 17, 2008 12:41 PM MDT to parent up   0 recs

You bring up a good point.

I wonder if Moss is being sat out purposely until he gains weight. I’d be curious to find out….

If God is not a Bronco fan, then WHY are sunsets Blue and Orange? - Jon Tollerud 5/22/08

I got a high ankle sprain in college and it still hurts! ~ TSG 8/13/08

by Zappa on Sep 17, 2008 1:16 PM MDT to parent up   0 recs

Perhaps that's what caused Hochuli to miss the call on Sunday
“Hmm, I could have Jarvis do some hack squats, dead lifts and some french presses followed by drinking a gallon of Muscle Milk”

— Ed Hochuli

I wish Woody Paige was our coach!

by bcfunk on Sep 17, 2008 2:20 PM MDT to parent up   0 recs

I don't see this being the case

he played undeweight in his final weeks of his junior year after coming back from a devestating staph infection (he lost almost 40 lbs). He came on strong then and then was a dominant player for Florida’s championship run.

he has ahd a pelvic bone injury since highschool, from taking alow hit. His freshamn year in college he was ont he fasttrack to contribute when it started to bother him, and in his sophmore year he was taking injections in his pelvis to reduce the pain. That led to a staph infection that didn’t get diagnosed for a long time (he literally woke up paralyzed one day before they realized what was happening).

In short, his body is still recovering from a balance and development standpoint, with one of the best staffs int eh league looking out for him. i think his production for the gators rules out the Broncos sitting him until he develops more. If that was the case they wouldn’t have played him AT ALL last year. He has had a tough row to hoe, and Sunday night looks to be a real chance for him to make a profound statement about his future.

He will either indicate that he will be a very long term project (but not worth tossing aside, though he may be traded) or he will show signs that he will be ready to go and just needs the coach’s confidence in the short term, so that he can get opportunities. I am seriously hoping for the latter.

Mountains, forest, sea: these render man fierce, but yet do not destroy the man.

by styg50 on Sep 19, 2008 12:27 PM MDT to parent up   0 recs

Trevor Pryce sat on the bench his rookie season

He was drafted higher than Moss, but I don’t remember him getting off the bench until about the 8th game. Due to the injury shortened season for Moss last year, he is still basically just a rookie. I prefer to give him time. Everyone needs to accept the fact that NFL LTs are very good, it is unusual for a rookie RDE to make much of an impact. Remember how long it took Hayward to grow into his body and make an impact.

by Arctic Bronco on Sep 17, 2008 3:21 PM MDT to parent up   0 recs

great points arctic

I can’t endorse any early opinion of Moss’ bustability, though I can entertain the discussion. And figure that due to Moss’ history, he has an even steeper curve that will require an even greater commitment to excellence if he is to succeed.

He has the same potential as a Javon Kearse, in my mind. But he has a loooooong way to go to get there. Even if he has success against New Orleans, tempering that excitement with knowledge about the reality he needs to deal with (a body that is recovering from a devestating series of damagind incidents) can only help fans appreciate what he is trying to accomplish in becoming a Broncos fixture at pass rushing defensive end.

One last thing that can’t be overlooked in Moss, is that he is a true competitior. When his health is not being accomodated for (in his mind) he is hte kind of guy you wnat on the field on 4th and 5, with the game on the line. he will probably not be an every down defender ideally, but if he gets his legs under him, he may see more downs than fans might expect.

Mountains, forest, sea: these render man fierce, but yet do not destroy the man.

by styg50 on Sep 19, 2008 12:33 PM MDT to parent up   0 recs

you didn't really mean to say "committment to excellence", did you?

just checking, although i wouldn’t rule out a trade to the raiders, him being a first-round draft pick and all. seriously though, i hope he picks it up, he’s one of the x-factors on this defense. if his problems are injury-based, and he can get stronger, then he has a shot. i just haven’t seen anything yet that gives me faith in his potential to improve. i only see speed, and an inability to round out his game. i hope i’m wrong, we really could use a healthy and productive pass-rusher. we’ll know by the end of the season if we have something or not, but a healthy scratch is an indication of more than just physical issues, no?

hear me, perpetrators of bread crime, your punishment is at hand.
taste my blintzkrieg!

by davecheffy on Sep 20, 2008 1:50 AM MDT to parent up   0 recs

I think the faders copyright on "CtE" has run out

I think healthy scratch fits into the line of development pretty well, what with the broken leg and all. If he ahd been healthy all of last year, I would be much harder on him. We’ll see tomorrow if he is at least as far along as the rest of the line.

This doesn’t exonerate him for being a healthy scratch, nor does it hold him to an unreasonable standard for someone coming off of a broken leg, and 3+ years of dealing with a pelvic bone injury.

Mountains, forest, sea: these render man fierce, but yet do not destroy the man.

by styg50 on Sep 20, 2008 9:07 AM MDT to parent up   0 recs

A Few Points

1) Clearly, Shanahan has no problem making a change on defense if he doesn’t like whats going on. The past two years he has let go of DCs that he felt didn’t fit, and he even abandoned Bates’ run contain system over the bye last year.

2) This has essentially been Slowik’s defense for only 3/4 of a full season now—-still too early to tell what the “system” is going to be. If anything, I’ve noticed that it seems to be the anti-run-contain system, as the three LBs line up very close to each other and seem to move as one unit in run defense. This smells like an attempt to plug up the middle and utilize our speed at LB to get to the edge when needed. So far so good on this front. We at a minimum seem to have improved our run defense over last year.

3) There won’t be any massive momentum for a scheme or any other significant change until we start losing ball games.

4) I think it still makes sense to cover our defense weaknesses with its strengths. That means leaving three men in coverage and playing run defense with eight in the box. Until that starts resulting in losses (which it very well could going foward), I imagine Slowik and Shanahan will keep plowing forward with the “system” that we’ve seen so far.

by NTSBusMan on Sep 17, 2008 11:44 AM MDT   0 recs

This is what is baffling HT and I

we really SHOULD be able to tell what system Slowik is running. As HT pointed out to me, this “scheme” really seems to be a lack of scheme with wholly vanilla flavor.

Point 3) above is too true. Coaches are funny that way. regardless of all the little things that bother people, we won the game, and that can’t be argued with. I wouldn’t even try. And that carries right over into your point 4) which I highlighted in the article: we will NEVER take the SS out of the box. It didn’t even work last year, after the Bates scheme collapsed and we were doing a Man-base out defense, while getting gashed by the run right to the end.

But from what HT has lined out in his university posts over the last year or so has taught me that Shanny doesn’t have a safety up because he wants to, just because he HAS to…

Mountains, forest, sea: these render man fierce, but yet do not destroy the man.

by styg50 on Sep 17, 2008 12:09 PM MDT to parent up   0 recs

har.

base/man-out i mean

Mountains, forest, sea: these render man fierce, but yet do not destroy the man.

by styg50 on Sep 17, 2008 12:21 PM MDT to parent up   0 recs

yes!

i said it in the preseason. heck, last season. paymah sucks, and moss is a bust. i have already commented on another post that we should put jmfwilliams in. see what he can do, i like the risk/reward approach on that. break him in for next season, at least he’ll be with us next year. paymah is gone, goodbye. draft 1 more corner. moss should be traded. i would wait until he plays, gets a sack, and then trade him. he still has good value and upside, but he is a one-trick pony and a liability for the most part. stockpile picks for the next draft/fa period. denver simply can’t stop the run with 7 in-the-box. not since the orange crush, and i don’t see gradishar and t.j. out there. the first thing we needed to do was to stop the bleeding, and i believe we are on our way in that regard. we are selling out on the run first, and i agree with that. i agree also we would rather play a shootout right now, and hope we can hold a team to some field-goals. the pass rush, make that the pass-defense scheme, needs to be adjusted. blitz! we are getting toasted anyway, why not force a mistake, and limit the deep ball(rivers-chambers). we need more stops, and we don’t have the horses to play mano-a-mano on the d-line. good qb’s will pick us apart, and i cannot even look at the 3-man rush anymore. stop it. a 4-man rush can’t do anything, either, get out of the nickel and dime, and try to get the ball back to the offense, if they score or not. we are not talented enough to play soft, use our speed and force the issue. otherwise, it’s just slow death thru the air, same as on the ground. our d is going to get exhausted chasing guys all over the field, and we are scoring quickly w/out the running game. i definitely feel we are going “all-in” for the draft/fa period next year to aquire impact players on defense. mlb and the d-line(again) are priorities, and a corner and safety wouldn’t hurt. this explains the depth we traded away this season, and if we are right about this, this is a great plan. i agree we are 1 solid offseason away from being a serious sb contender, and we have some young/new players that may still come thru for us( boss, d-rob, crowder, lowery, barrett, powell, and jmfwilliams on d alone.) by the end of the season, we should be able to target 3 blue-chip defenders, and fill out the roster with the remaining picks. it really looks like it is all coming together, and we will make some noise this season, but we have a little ways to go. perhaps a new st guru can help expedite the process, and we need to get a new returner, since the one we got would rather be a star wr(ha!). we’re on our way, folks, and how good can this team be with a serious rushing attack and an above-average d next season? just gives me chills

hear me, perpetrators of bread crime, your punishment is at hand.
taste my blintzkrieg!

by davecheffy on Sep 17, 2008 11:46 AM MDT   0 recs

I hear ya'...

I’m just not interested in talking about next season right now…I’m worried about this one!!!

by UnarmingMermaid on Sep 17, 2008 12:01 PM MDT to parent up   0 recs

Recommended and Buzzed Up!

I’m continually impressed with this blog.

by CoastalBronco on Sep 17, 2008 11:51 AM MDT   0 recs

HT's 4th point in his last word makes me nervous

I really hope we don’t regress to grasping at quick-fix, overpriced free agents. We’ve had MUCH better luck with high-character draft picks and signings, and it makes it more fun to be a fan of the team.

by CoastalBronco on Sep 17, 2008 11:56 AM MDT   0 recs

I'm sure he agrees

and would only endorse a high quality free agent as part of an overall plan that included draft picks.

Mountains, forest, sea: these render man fierce, but yet do not destroy the man.

by styg50 on Sep 17, 2008 11:58 AM MDT to parent up   0 recs

Strange how we did that in 1997 and it worked out beautifully...

but that strategy has been a total failure in the years since….

If God is not a Bronco fan, then WHY are sunsets Blue and Orange? - Jon Tollerud 5/22/08

I got a high ankle sprain in college and it still hurts! ~ TSG 8/13/08

by Zappa on Sep 17, 2008 12:00 PM MDT to parent up   0 recs

Coastal, Styg, and Zap are all correct.

Not just any FAs. We need players who are good at what they do, and are team first people. I also want to place the emphsis on trades, trades for picks, piicks for players, trades of picks for picks, and the draft. We don’t need to d this through FA alone. But at the end of this year, I want to see a lot of movement on the defensive side. I think we need DTs the most, followed by at least one dominant LB.

"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe

by hoosierteacher on Sep 17, 2008 1:06 PM MDT to parent up   0 recs

And

continued drafting success will be the key. We need to draft strongly in 2010 and 2011 or else we will start to see deth issues creeping up quickly. Even though the team is young, they still have to address the “staggering” issue that you point out from time to time.

I really believe that Brian Xanders was brought in specifically to think about the “staggering” issue and integrate it into our newly potent scouting department.

Mountains, forest, sea: these render man fierce, but yet do not destroy the man.

by styg50 on Sep 19, 2008 12:37 PM MDT to parent up   0 recs

A few points

I said the other day that I would make the move to Jack Williams over Paymah, so I’m down with that move (it’s a trade off of speed vs experience). Moss is looking like a bust right now, I wonder if there is something else that is keeping him out of these games? No way I take the SS out of the box either.

The other move I would make (as I said the other day as well) which you guys didn’t address is starting Niko over Webster. I’m going to lose it if I see the back of #58 trailing and chasing a play after over pursuing.

That said, I probably wouldn’t make any changes for a few games. I think something is going on with learning the defense.

As for the future, one of the reasons I was cheering the Colbert trade is the stockpiling of draft picks, that gives us some ammo (a 5th or 4th is a good place to draft, especially as it’s looking like a high draft pick in the round) to move up if we want to, I think a MLB is the top priority next year.

Owning the Patriots since September 9, 1960

by Darin H on Sep 17, 2008 12:16 PM MDT   0 recs

I brought MLB up to HT

and we talked about it a little before coming to a conclusion that it probably wouldn’t make a difference. I am with you that overpursuit simply isn’t going to change: we’ve been talking about it for two years now. But the speed is an asset, and is why he is making plays and Niko isn’t.

After MHR radio last week I told Guru that I would advocate Niko over Webster on the principle of slowing down our defense, which goes well with taking the safety out of the box, and keeping plays in front of this defense. But that is probably a recipe for long, drawn out drives that eat up clock, wear everyone out and end up scoring and demoralizing everyone anyways… In the end I just couldn’t see what difference Niko would really make. B