I have this small thought in my head right now
I have seen a few things happen this early year which may end up surprising some people so I dont wat the possibility surprising the MHR Faithful.
Trade O-Lineman to a system that needs him for a 5th rounder in 2009
Trade a 5th string CB to a team that needs him for a 6th rounder THIS year
Trade a WR who was probably gonna get cut or see the bench all year to a desperate team for a conditional 5th rounder (I dont knwo the full story here just the rumor)
That's three picks that we have successfully neted in threw and a half weeks. Now on paper, those three don't really amount to a whole lot but lets say you couple them with a mid to late #20 first round pick, could that possibly move you into the top 5? top 10? to grab some of the great defensive players that will more than likely come out of this years draft?
My buddies at walter have this to say:
#25 Denver Broncos- James Laurinaitis really shouldn't have fallen this far, but there aren't many teams that need an upgrade at middle linebacker. In a perfect world, Laurinaitis would go top 10.
That being said I would like to make you aware of the top notch Defensive players coming out this year:
6 Top Rated DE- not really a need for us, unless Moss doesn't prove his metal.
4 Top Rated DT- Something we may need to look at but not as big a concern as other areas.
3 Top rated OLB- Some of these guys could actually play inside too!
4 Top Rated ILB- and three of them are All-Americans!
5 Top Rated CB's- Not that this is a huge need again but it shows defensive strength in this draft.
4 Top rated SAF's- Could be looking at concerns here as well.
Once again not to change the direction but I wanted to keep the idea fresh in MHR's collective mind that Shanny may be stocking up to Trade up to get the player HE wants! Thoughts?
This is a Fan-Created Comment on MileHighReport.com. The opinion here is not necessarily shared by the editorial staff of MHR
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bring him to me
we need a hammer at mlb. we had wilson and lynch-2 hammers(and great tacklers), and now, webster and mccree don’t bring that. i say we go force over speed here, we have plent of speed on the d, already. we lack intimidation, pop, tackling ability, and leadership. i believe laurainitus brings that, and is fast enough for the position. i think he is the perfect fit, and i hope he slips in the draft to where we could trade up and nab him, keeping more of our picks for other d needs. i’m sure this is our #1 priority next draft, and it may come down to value, so i’ll take any blue-chip prospect at the position, so long as he can bring it.
hear me, perpetrators of bread crime, your punishment is at hand.
taste my blintzkrieg!
by davecheffy on Sep 17, 2008 12:31 PM MDT 0 recs
DIdn't vote..............
Because I don’t know what Shanny is thinking but I’m with dave, we need a superstud Mike Backer.
The player who thinks he can and the player who knows he can are two different players, which one are you???
by Broncofan on
Sep 17, 2008 12:42 PM MDT
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Linebacker from usc is who i want
The quest is the Highway to the Danger Zone-Kenny loggins
by TommyTSlice on Sep 17, 2008 12:51 PM MDT 0 recs
I would love
To get Maluga, but I could see denver trying to get Cushing who also from USC. I dont know its such a long way off
Love is a razor and I have walked the line on that silver blade
by broncfanstuckinsd on Sep 17, 2008 12:53 PM MDT 0 recs
I don't think this is like Cutler
if that is what you are thinking, and even then I don’t think they really knew they wanted him until much closer to the draft than this.
That being said I think our scouting department is exponentially better and productive than it has been, including when we picked up Cutler, so who knows what the Goodman’s are telling Shanny right now.
But Jon makes a good point. We pretty much can’t go wrong with some extra picks to target a good defensive draft. And I am SURE that the Goodman’s know that they can get a number of defensive playmakers that will be no brainers.
Mountains, forest, sea: these render man fierce, but yet do not destroy the man.
by styg50 on Sep 17, 2008 1:03 PM MDT 0 recs
One thought.
Don’t be too dismissive of our need for a DT. One dominant DT would make his partner look good, would be a hell of a lot of time for the LBs (improving all three), help stop the run, and tie up the OL for the pass rush.
A MLB improves a very key player on the defense. A DT can improve multiple positions. I would fix our DT position first (fixing the foundation).
"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe
by hoosierteacher on Sep 17, 2008 1:43 PM MDT 0 recs
Wholeheartedly agree
But this also seems like a harder position to predict for NFL success. Check out this list of DT’s drafted since 1936: http://www.nfl.com/draft/history/fulldraft?type=position&position=Defensive%20Tackles
It seems like 3 or 4 years between 1st round DTs that are actually worth the draft position.
Wish I could find better stats on picks versus starters, rather than “seems like”…
by CoastalBronco on
Sep 17, 2008 2:00 PM MDT
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Right.
I wouldn’t advocate getting one just for the sake of it. He needs to be a standout. Otherwise, a trade is probably the way to go.
"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe
by hoosierteacher on
Sep 17, 2008 3:00 PM MDT
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agreed
but i was hoping for most of the following to occur: d-rob is not a bust, thomas continues to improve, powell looks like a keeper, one of peterson/clemons/shaw sticks. that gives us 4 good dt. if 1-2 of these question marks don’t work out, then i have to put dt as our #1 priority as well(like the last draft). i’m also thinking we may go the fa route here, as shanny has a really hard time with selecting d-linemen. we should have enough picks to trade up/aquire both a stud mlb and excellent dt. we need both. de, safety, and corner we’ll have to see about after the season, as the play of moss/crowder, barrett/lowery, and paymah/jmfwilliams dictates. but we really only need a strong mlb, dt, and de to be good enough to compete on defense, in my opinion.
hear me, perpetrators of bread crime, your punishment is at hand.
taste my blintzkrieg!
by davecheffy on
Sep 17, 2008 2:13 PM MDT
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Solid reasoning as always Dave.
There are a lot of “ifs” in that first sentence, which is why I’m leaning towards DT right now. But that could change.
Also, we might want to go the trade route instead of FA. It could be very difficult to get a quality DT who is also a quality person from FA (who would let such a player go?) Instead, we may have to swap some treasure.
"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe
by hoosierteacher on
Sep 17, 2008 3:02 PM MDT
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you're right,
the entire d-line is 1 big IF, right now. a trade just may be the best way to go, but it’s going to cost us. that’s ok, though, because we can’t miss on it this time. i remember before the draft how concerned you and i both were about this position, even after we aquired d-rob. and blue-chip dt’s are rare and coveted athletes. but i agree with your comment on another post, he can impact the overall d more than anyone. i’m prepared to offer some combination of moss, graham, and bly to acqire one. with graham, we can find a good enough blocking te(which is how we’re using him), and our offense won’t die. as far as bly, if jmfwilliams looks good enough, we can draft a corner high with the extra picks we have, also. graham and bly both make a ton of money, which can be used for keeping all our young talent(problem), bailey, and others. we’ll see how this looks at the end of the season, just food for thought
hear me, perpetrators of bread crime, your punishment is at hand.
taste my blintzkrieg!
by davecheffy on
Sep 17, 2008 4:39 PM MDT
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Questions HT
How do you rate the play of Dewayne Robertson thus far? How much has he actually played? Can he be that “impact” player we need at DT?
That’s ok with me. We’re playing for wins, not media publicity....HT 9/11/08
by firstfan on
Sep 17, 2008 2:31 PM MDT
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Mixed.
I saw the oakland game, not the SD game. From what I gather we aren’t getting a big push in the center. I don’t know how effective he has been filling his gap on runs. After only two games, it’s not too fair to judge him yet.
The difficult thing about judging a DT is that they don’t often get the “stat” plays that you use to evaluate other players. They take up offensive linemen so that other players can get the tackle, the sack, or even the hurry ups and hits. The best way to evaluate at DT is to see if he is either penetrating (whether or not he does anything after that*), or drawing double teams.
- (The point of a penetrating DT being effective, even if he doesn’t “do anything after that” is because a DT in the offensive backfield is a disrutption, even if he is a slow, lumbering giant.)
"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe
by hoosierteacher on
Sep 17, 2008 2:58 PM MDT
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I believe
but will have to corroborate this, that Drob and Thomas are getting double teamed. Are LBs are being wasted in coverage and our DEs arent forcing offenses to compensate. SD when with numerous 6 and 7 man protections, and we simply couldn’t break it up without the LBs.
And as others have pointed out, the LBs haven’t been effective on the blitz.
Also, I noticed that Thomas seemed to be sort of “lagging” a little. I suggested to HT that he might be psychologically holding himself back a little. My reasoning goes like this:
Last year Thomas was literally in pain from exhaustion, between the altitude and the amount of time he had spent away from football. He gave it everything he had, though, and the result was temendous physical discomfort. He seems to be playing now like he is holding himself back, or “saving” himself. I KNOW he is quicker off the snap than he has shown so far, so something is up. I don’t believe he is injured, so that leaves motivation or fitness. I lean towards motivation, in the form of not wanting to burn his lungs out like he did last year.
Mountains, forest, sea: these render man fierce, but yet do not destroy the man.
by styg50 on
Sep 17, 2008 3:34 PM MDT
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Thank you both
for the valuable insights. it is so damn hard to see this on TV! I believe I did see some double teaming of Robertson in the SD game as well. I sure hope Thomas is not holding himself back. Conditioning should be part of the Mile High 12th man.
That’s ok with me. We’re playing for wins, not media publicity....HT 9/11/08
by firstfan on
Sep 17, 2008 5:37 PM MDT
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easy way to see it better first fan is to buy a
bigger TV lol they come in color now!
" He goes against Champ everyday." -Jay Cutler
Davis to the Hall!
by Jon Tollerud on
Sep 18, 2008 1:09 AM MDT
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MLB, DT, Saf, CB
Although I know that we will pick up guys for offense, I see this as our D Draft. Might be wrong – anyone?
Fullbacks Rule
by broncobear on Sep 17, 2008 2:01 PM MDT 0 recs
I think we are showing we can impact on offense with who we have
Sure stokely is old but Im looking down the list and that’s the only question mark i see on offense who is our replacement Slot guy. Also maybe who is the #2 TE when Graham leaves
" He goes against Champ everyday." -Jay Cutler
Davis to the Hall!
by Jon Tollerud on
Sep 17, 2008 2:20 PM MDT
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When Graham leaves...
We still have Scheff and Jackson. That’s not bad at all. While I would like to have two or three great TEs, that is still a rarity. With two exceptional WRs, I think we won’t have much problem getting a WR here and there in drafts to keep us at three solid receivers.
I like the idea of an all out defensive draft though.
"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe
by hoosierteacher on
Sep 17, 2008 3:05 PM MDT
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of course you do :)
Mountains, forest, sea: these render man fierce, but yet do not destroy the man.
by styg50 on
Sep 17, 2008 3:35 PM MDT
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Well,
there is quite a bit of bias there.
"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe
by hoosierteacher on
Sep 17, 2008 3:51 PM MDT
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I side with HT
and I come from the offensive side of the ball. Speaking of which I am getting a chance to help out with the pee wee league as a coach here in Cordova, any thoughts HT?
" He goes against Champ everyday." -Jay Cutler
Davis to the Hall!
by Jon Tollerud on
Sep 17, 2008 4:51 PM MDT
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Lots!
Flag or tackle?
1) At this age, simplicity and fun is everything. Let the kids be kids.
2) Don’t let the parents interfere with their kids having a good time.
3) Don’t be afraid to watch other coaches and ask them questions. Avoid the coaches that are geared towards winning, and gravitate towards the coaches that let the kids have fun.
4) There are excellent books (possibly at the library) on youth coaching. Keep the age range in mind. Proper technique still isn’t critical at this age.
5) Get to know the person that runs the league. He or she is your best friend if you have problems with another coach or a parent.
6) At this age, avoid the use of terms like “win” or “lose”. Praise a lot, but save critical remarks for the older programs.
Believe me, I’m not a whinny “let everybody play” bleeding heart. I want to win, and I want to crush my opponents. But in my book, that doesn’t start until middle-school / Jr. high (and even then, it’s a balance). In high school, the game turns more fully into a business with a bottom line where all bets (ok, MOST bets) are off.
"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe
by hoosierteacher on
Sep 18, 2008 5:07 AM MDT
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Thanks
It’s tackle and I was actually thinking on having a lot of FUN plays in the mix to make these kids enjoy the game while learning a few of the basics (holding on to the ball, catching away from the body but bringing it in etc.) The big thing here is the pee wee league ranges in age from 7-11 and they all play on the same teams. (small town) thanks for this HT
" He goes against Champ everyday." -Jay Cutler
Davis to the Hall!
by Jon Tollerud on
Sep 18, 2008 6:13 PM MDT
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Best of luck
You have an opportunity to be something special for these kids. You’ll do a great job!
"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe
by hoosierteacher on
Sep 18, 2008 6:30 PM MDT
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Awesome Jon, I am the Town Rec. Director in our town and........
John, that is so cool that you are coaching the peewee’s in your town. I’m with HT. I’ve coached numerous peewee sports and at this age it’s about having fun. I’ll give you what pointers have been good for me. I want my kids to learn to compete hard at this level but not make it about winning and losing. To me, it’s more about teaching them to work hard and building confidence. At this age, I’d have A LOT of fun and make a really big deal every time they do something right. When they make a mistake as they all will, I always start with some thing positive like, “Man that was great effort, if we change this one thing your gonna be a stud running back.” It seems that the more confidence you build the faster they improve and more fun they have. At the same time they learn to give it everything they have which in turn makes them better people and football players in the long run. I know we are careful to get coaches like that in our peewee programs and we go out of our way to make sure they coach this way. As a junior high coach, I am seeing the benefits of it this year during our Junior High Season. Besides that, working with kids is about the funnest thing to do there is on earth. LOL
The player who thinks he can and the player who knows he can are two different players, which one are you???
by Broncofan on
Sep 19, 2008 5:00 PM MDT
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There are some serious impact players in this draft
The two that I assume we would be targeting are Maulauga from USC and Mayes from USC, both are freaks of nature, and both will be all-pros at the next level very soon. But I would be happy to try to add depth at WR, DL, LB, and CB also if the price is too high for those players. Also I wouldn’t mind seeing us take another QB and kick Ramsey to the curb.
"How do the berries taste Ralph?" Bart Simpson
"They taste like burning." Ralph Wigam
Broncoman
by Broncoman on Sep 17, 2008 3:12 PM MDT 0 recs
Outsource defensive drafting
In the 2006 & 2008 drafts, we took 12 offensive players and 4 defensive players. Of these 12 offensive players, there are at least 5 that could eventually make the Pro Bowl (Jay-C, BM, Tony S, Royal, Ryan Clady) and a couple more with that potential (Ryan Torrain (if you believe the hype), perhaps Hillis). In the 2005 & 2008 drafts, we took 6 defensive players and 2 offensive players. Of these defensive players, only Darrent Williams (RIP) seems to have had Pro Bowl potential. The way Harris is playing, he might be the only player from these two draft years to accomplish the feat. So shouldn’t our strategy be to draft offensive players and trade them for defensive players from teams that can draft defense (aka the Champ Baily strategy).
by Snaggins on Sep 17, 2008 4:27 PM MDT 1 recs
Pretty good idea
But I think we really do need to look at some impact infusion on defense this and next year, being able to trade is great, but you have to have a willing partner on the other end, and I really don’t see any “dominate” defensive teams with loads of talent on the defensive side that they would be willing to trade.
"How do the berries taste Ralph?" Bart Simpson
"They taste like burning." Ralph Wigam
Broncoman
by Broncoman on
Sep 17, 2008 4:34 PM MDT
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trading strategy
I agree up to a point. The assumption that we develop offensive players better than defensive players is where I beg off. We can pick already developed stars, whether defensive or offensive, and use free agency to supplement areas of need, but I treat the fact that we’ve developed more offensive players as just an artifact (an accident). There are strong reasons for developing defensive talent in-house. For one, we have them for a longer period of time and it produces cohesion when players play together longer.
We simply need to draft more defensive players. DLs can be hard to predict, and I wouldn’t want to draw too many conclusions based on 2007, especially this early. Most of us now believe that Moss is a bust, but it’s still too early to conclude that he’s a complete bust. Busts happen, however, and you wouldn’t want to stop drafting DLs because one was a bust. Teams often don’t succeed at filling a need, Detroit’s busts at WR come to mind, but you keep drafting a position as long as it’s a need, it’s frustrating not to succeed but you just have to look at as bad luck. Denver needs to draft many more defensive players and assume that a certain percentage of them will eventually succeed. The only thing you can do is very carefully evaluate the talent, the rest is mostly luck.
by Colinski on
Sep 18, 2008 1:39 AM MDT
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and I think
the dynamic of the scouting department’s “priorities” (i.e. high character guys this year) has been stretching and shifting, to subsume the concept of “football players” before it considers which side f the ball the player should be on.
I think it had such a large impact on offense because we have a much more developed offensive personality, with perhaps one of the greatest coaches all time taking responsibility for that personality. On defense, we are still kind of deciding who we are it seems. I think they are farther along on defense than it sometimes appears, but I in no way think they have everybody where they want them.
I think defensive drafting success has a great chance of occuring as quickly as next year (MLBs have a history of immediate contribution) and is sure to happen within the timeframe our offense needs for this team to get—-and stay—-at the top.
Mountains, forest, sea: these render man fierce, but yet do not destroy the man.
by styg50 on
Sep 18, 2008 7:27 AM MDT
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turning the defense around
I agree that defensive turnarounds can be accomplished relatively quickly. Moreover, I think we need to keep scrutinizing our picks and resist the temptation to take players solely because they fit with our conception of a need. This may result in passing over sexy picks in favor solid character guys who are lesser ranked, but I still recall the howls of protest (on another forum) over the “stupid” choice Denver made with their #2 pick this year. And the argument many people made was that Denver shouldn’t pick a WR because we’d made poor WR picks in the past. I have huge problems with this logic.
I’ve tried to get people to think outside-the-box a little on the issue of the draft. I just wonder if a name like Beckwith will elicit the same howls of protest that Royal’s did this year. I’d rather see the Broncos do their homework than please the crowd. The depth on defense in the upcoming draft make choosing well even more essential; not less.
by Colinski on
Sep 18, 2008 6:18 PM MDT
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I know
I will be looking at players differently. Its important to me that this community bring the best draft insight to the broncos fans. We were SO CLOSE last year, this year I want us to avoid those surprise names.
Mountains, forest, sea: these render man fierce, but yet do not destroy the man.
by styg50 on
Sep 18, 2008 6:53 PM MDT
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to add to Styg's comments
We are trying to do a scouting service here if you’re interested contact me. e-mail is on my homepage
" He goes against Champ everyday." -Jay Cutler
Davis to the Hall!
by Jon Tollerud on
Sep 18, 2008 7:35 PM MDT
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2009 draft
It’s too early to project 2009 in more than general terms. Two of the positions of need — Safety & ILB — are going to be well stocked but that doesn’t mean our current draft position (you can make your own projections, I’d say ~ #20) will yield one of the MLBs many of us are targeting, namely, Maualuga or Laurinaitis. Denver probably could move up to take one of them, which appears to be a good idea since both look like can’t miss prospects.
If for some reason the Broncos staff decided to stay put there would be a number of dominant Safeties available near Denver’s projected draft position. However, almost all of next year’s spectacular crop of Safeties are SSs, and that may an important distinction. 2010’s crop of Safeties tips strongly towards the FS position, so the difference between the two classes is pronounced enough to consider that fact when they’re planning their draft. And, as always, juniors declaring can change the shape of the crop.
Drafting strategy is an important issue in this discussion. And here’s my take — drafting for need is a necessity. Oddly, taking the Best Player Available is, too. Also, because talent intervals between player are often large early in the draft it’s often necessary to move in order to avoid giving up value. Farther into the draft, intervals are small and scheme compatibility diverges so teams are relatively free to focus on position. I prefer a grocery cart strategy.
Most of what I’ve been saying on draft strategy pertains to early picks, and Denver has a need for some elite players on defense. Since early picks come at a high cost it’s preferable to have more picks in the middle range, i.e., ~ 3-4th rounds. This is partly because of the math, early picks are still important because a few elite players can turn a defense (or squad) dominant and are thus essential, but it’s also because the salary cap has shaped teams’ salary structure. Picking more early to middle round picks is also a hedge strategy, more low risk / lower return prospects are preferred over high risk / high return prospects — in general. And there are many caveats to this strategy, such as when a team already has ample depth and needs a few impact players, but team needs are still the guiding principle. Also, there is a presumption here that the team is scouting meticulously, and Denver appears to be doing that lately.
The Broncos still need to focus on the DL in the 2009 draft, and I don’t think they should be afraid of taking a DE early if he’s a high value choice. They also can take an OLB under similar conditions. Some of the OLBs are able to play to play MLB so the real question should be talent. There are some positions on offense, such as WR or OL (it’s a very strong OC crop) that might not occur to people and have talent we may want to take. However, our needs dictate taking mostly defensive players in next year’s draft.
by Colinski on Sep 17, 2008 8:47 PM MDT 0 recs
combination drafting
Oops. I actually like the Combination Draft strategy, not grocery cart.
by Colinski on
Sep 18, 2008 1:45 AM MDT
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