Mile High Report: An SB Nation Community

Navigation: Jump to content areas:


Sports blogs for fans, by fans.
New Blog: Sounder At Heart for Seattle Sounders Fans!

A-11 Offense

NPR did an interesting piece today on a new offensive system.  This is a summary of the report:

Piedmont High School, a small school in Northern California, has garnered national attention recently for developing what some are referring to as a revolutionary offense called the A-11.   However, the offense is currently mired in controversy by those who claim it is a threat to traditional football.  In fact, North Carolina and a handful of other states have already banned the A-11 offense and the organization that establishes the rules for high school football nationally is currently reviewing it. 

The name A-11 is from the fact that all eleven players in a A-11 offense are eligible.  The creators of the offense discovered a loophole in the rulebook which allowed for this to be possible.  Ben Adler, author of the NPR article, explains, "Instead of everyone bunching up around the ball on the line of scrimmage, Piedmont's players spread out across the entire width of the field, in pods of three.  Several yards behind the middle pod, which includes a center and the ball, two quarterbacks wait for the snap — or, sometimes, a quarterback and a running back."  The goal of the offense is to have the opposing defense as confused as possible.

Here is a link to the NPR article:

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=95035232

And a YouTube video demonstrating the A-11 (sorry for the poor quality):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IJOm-IJcbg0

 

Poll
What are your thoughts on the A-11?
Awesome! This could really change the game of football!
4 votes
Not that cool! It's a fad and will fade away.
23 votes
This is a travesty! That's not football
13 votes

40 votes | Poll has closed

This is a Fan-Created Comment on MileHighReport.com. The opinion here is not necessarily shared by the editorial staff of MHR

1 recs  |  Comment 24 comments

Story-email Email Printer Print

Comments

Display:

I think we've talked about this at a bar once but...

I recently heard there is some sort of rule in the college and pro game that would not allow this to ever get beyond the high school level

-Chuck Norris recently had the idea to sell his urine as a canned beverage. We know this beverage as Red Bull.

by Denverjhawk on Sep 26, 2008 4:50 PM MDT reply actions   0 recs

I hope so, football would not be football without the struggles in the trench.

It would regress into high-scoring soccer with a forward pass—kinda like arena football.

The best defense is a good offense!
I hope.

by Mike Clark on Sep 26, 2008 5:16 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

It wouldnt take a rule...

3 down lineman? Any professional D-line would get 25 sacks a game on this offense. It would never work.

by Papamag on Sep 26, 2008 5:16 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Apparently the A-11 was actually designed to give a far less athletic team a chance. I don’t know why it would inherently increase the number of sacks. Especially with two QBs…if one guys is under pressure he can toss it to the other guy.

GO BRONCOS!!!

by UnarmingMermaid on Sep 26, 2008 5:22 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

A good Zone could kill that.

Send blitzes from different angles.

by Raider76 on Sep 26, 2008 5:42 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Just an extreme spread offense.

The intent is the same – to spread the defense, and use the whole field to get quick elusive players in open space. Their success is not so much the formations, as much as it is getting the ball to quick elusive players in open space. You can do the same thing with good play calling with any offense.

Also part of their success is based on the high school defensive coordinators over-reacting to the spread out players. The focus has to start where the ball is – in the middle of the field. Many of their successful plays are simple screen passes and draws from the defense being spread out too much. I do not see many down the field passes.

College and NFL Coordinators would keep the pressure in the middle of the field on the QBs. They would kill the QB. They would also play a zone defense and they would fly to the ball. At the college and pro level athletes are too good and quick. It is the same reason why teams can not run consistently outside in the pro game – cause players are too fast and athletic for teams to consistently get outside. At the pro level, this offense would lead to a lot of turnovers and injured skills players, especially the QB.

This is simply a high school offense (just like the wishbone or Wing T), taking advantage of weak players, and poor coaching.

by The Gun Young on Sep 26, 2008 5:35 PM MDT reply actions   0 recs

"Just an extreme spread offense"

Well…the spread seems to be taking over the NFL…so?

You’re right this is considered a version of the spread; however, the two QBs is an interesting addition.

GO BRONCOS!!!

by UnarmingMermaid on Sep 26, 2008 5:37 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

An Extreme Spread Offense

That’s what I noted in the video as well. I also noticed that there were several great individual efforts on some of the catches and runs after the catch.

It could have been because of the mismatches. With several options at wide receiver and running back and only three “down lineman”, the defense is going to have their linemen trying to keep up with WRs and RBs and that should be easy for a smart quarterback to take advantage of.

"It's all over Fat Man" - Tom Jackson to John Madden 1977 AFC Championship Game

"I love your analysis of our team. Its kinda like watching a spider monkey trying to figure out a jar of peanuts.. you know whats going on.. you know whats in there, but to actually figure it out, is just a bit beyond your mental skills..."
- Bronco Dano

by DesertBroncoFan on Sep 28, 2008 10:21 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

It sounds like it is base on a loophole.

I’m sure it will get closed. NC’s HS sports association will probably move on the rule soon.

10 eligible players is not football (you can’t have eleven, since whoever accepts the snap can’t pass to himself, though he CAN receive after he’s passed or handed to someone else).

It’s not football, and it won’t survive a review in NC.

"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe

by Steve Nichols on Sep 26, 2008 5:42 PM MDT reply actions   0 recs

A fundamental rule of football....

is that 5 players on any given play CANNOT be eligible. It is not possible for them to be. 7 men must be on the line of scrimmage on every play. Only the two men on the end are eligible. In addition to those two men, the 4 men in the backfield (including the QB, technically) are also eligible.

Now, different personnel can be on the line on different plays, but on any single play, 5 men will always be ineligible to receive a pass.

"I am not one of those who think that coming in second or third is winning." -- Robert F. Kennedy

by Ted Bartlett on Sep 26, 2008 7:38 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Quarterback cannot receive?

What if Jay started to throw…but the ball slipped out of his hand…and he caught it?

by JaysGirl on Sep 27, 2008 9:25 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

He can receive

the ineligible players are the two Tackles, two Guards, and the Center, by traditional position standards. More generally, the five men on the line of scrimmage who are not the ends cannot receive a forward pass.

"I am not one of those who think that coming in second or third is winning." -- Robert F. Kennedy

by Ted Bartlett on Sep 27, 2008 12:04 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

actually...

Brett Favre’s first pass was something very similar, so officially, Favre’s first completion of his career was to himself….

-TSG

SBNation's Denver Broncos Blogger
MileHighReport

Questions, Comments...E-Mail Me!
milehighreport@gmail.com

by John Bena on Sep 27, 2008 4:39 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

There you go... always have to go on and on about your favorite player :P

Actually, I was about to bring up the same example. And by the way, welcome to MHR, Jaysgirl!

3-0.

by papigrande on Sep 27, 2008 6:46 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

"since whoever accepts the snap can’t pass to himself"

Correct me if I’m wrong, but that’s only if the QB receives the snap under center, right? I know that passing rules are more restrictive for under-center snaps, but I don’t remember if that’s one of them.

by Hooper on Sep 27, 2008 1:26 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

It's a semantics fest.

Technicaly, whoever receives the snap is the QB (even if it is a WR lining up as a QB), regardless of who lined up under center.

A pass to one’s self (I believe) is a fumble, recovered by one’s self. I may be incorrect, but that’s what I would think to be correct.

There is nothing wrong with a QB, lining up at a position other than QB, receiving a pass. There is also nothing wrong with a QB passing to someone, and that someone passing back to the QB. I agree with Ted’s assertion that the five players on scrimmage (not the ends) who must be on scrimmage should be ineligible.

"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe

by Steve Nichols on Sep 27, 2008 1:47 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

I just finally watched the video, and a couple more....

and what they are doing is legal, and not even terribly original. The only “new” wrinkle is splitting the outside covered men (traditionally Tackles) out from the interior line. Those men are spread too far to block anybody, so they end up drifting inside at the snap, but mostly not even coming close to hitting anybody.

A small degree of trickery results play-to-play from changing the eligible players, but this is nothing a decent cover-3 zone concept couldn’t shut down. I’m an offense guy, so this is not my area of expertize so much, but personally, I’d rush 4 against the 3 interior guys, have 4 across the second level in zones, and 3-deep at the 3rd level. That way, the 2 spread-out linemen are useless, and you’re playing 11-on-9 football in the passing game. You don’t have to worry about which outside players will be in the pattern, because you’re in zone.

"I am not one of those who think that coming in second or third is winning." -- Robert F. Kennedy

by Ted Bartlett on Sep 27, 2008 3:44 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

The loophole:

If a player is lined up to receive the snap more than 7 yards behind the line of scrimmage, you are in a punt formation. The punt formation has some slightly different rules regarding player eligibility in some rulebooks that do not require ineligible players to wear ineligible numbers. So they are putting everybody in eligible numbers and running passing plays out of a “punt” formation. Before the snap, the required number of people approach the line and set for one second. Then the ball is snapped. So you still have 5 ineligible people on that play, but the defense doesn’t know who they will be until 1 second before the snap. They might be spread across the line, or they might all be on one side of the center.

In the NFL, college, and most high school associations, the eligible/ineligible number loophole that they are exploiting is only valid for punt formations where there is a reasonable intent to punt. (In other words, this’ll never work on 1st through 3rd down, or whenever a team doesn’t have a punter on the field.) Because of this, it’s just not viable as an offense anywhere else. It’d be like designing an offense based on the rules of 9-man football, then running it in the NFL with 2 “free” players. Good luck with that.

In short, the A-11 will never get a sniff in the NFL. Or in college.

by Hooper on Sep 26, 2008 9:56 PM MDT reply actions   0 recs

Meant to say:

The reason some high school associations relax the rules on punt formations is to allow for more flexibility on which players can be on the field during punts. I have an unverified suspicion that this was originally designed to help coaches put backups in for their “required number of plays” (to make momma and poppa happy) without having them involved in actual offense or defense. Another possibility is that it helped teams with very few linemen find a play or two to give them some rest. Either way, it’s a nonissue in the NFL.

by Hooper on Sep 26, 2008 9:59 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

It would also help

with smaller schools that have players pulling double and even triple duty. That was how my school was, with 15-20 guys making up the whole team.

Mountains, forest, sea: these render man fierce, but yet do not destroy the man.

by Jeremy Bolander on Sep 26, 2008 10:07 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

exactly

that is the way i understand it, it is already illegal at the pro level. the spread is definitely making strides at higher levels, perhaps because of the favorable emphasis with the rules on wr’s and speed. i was also just discussing the 2-qb thing last week in response to what the fish were doing with a rb and a qb. but you would need 2 qb’s who could run, and actually complete a pass. teams are having a hard enough time finding 1 qb who can excel at both, so it doesn’t look promising. at the pro level, at least

hear me, perpetrators of bread crime, your punishment is at hand.
taste my blintzkrieg!

by davecheffy on Sep 26, 2008 10:01 PM MDT reply actions   0 recs

You also have to keep in mind:

The guys who came up with this thing went on an all-out marketing campaign before they had fully proven that the offense worked. They installed it, got the team practiced up in a couple of games, then had some really good success before teams had a chance to adjust to it. That’s when they came out with YouTubes, DVDs, seminar courses and so on. Recently, it hasn’t been as successful against the defenses in the high school league it started in. (In contrast, the spread went through a normal period of skepticism and proof-of-concept before most people accepted it as a viable offense at the college level.) I want to see how it responds to defensive adjustments before coronating it as the next great offense.

by Hooper on Sep 27, 2008 1:31 PM MDT reply actions   0 recs

I agree

I really think that the defense is going to be able to adjust, and from what I have seen, if you put a smart defense on the field, it would stop it.

"How do the berries taste Ralph?" Bart Simpson
"They taste like burning." Ralph Wigam
Broncoman

by Broncoman on Sep 27, 2008 10:14 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Comments For This Post Are Closed


User Tools

MileHighReport(MHR) is the ultimate independent resource for the Denver Broncos on the web. Along with MHR Radio, the official podcast of MHR, we look to provide hardcore Denver Broncos fans positive, independent insight about the Broncos, 24/7/365!
Start posting about the Broncos »

Join SB Nation and dive into communities focused on all your favorite teams.

FanPosts

Community blog posts and discussion.

Recommended FanPosts

Hillis_small
When Things Don't Make Sense
800px-john_brown_painting_small
Out of hiding: Mdierk's take on the season
Kirk_and_allie_small
UPON FURTHER REVIEW - Scouting The Steelers
Hillis_small
The Weekly "I'm Tired..." Rant
Cutlerjersey_small
The Broncos Success - Is it Orton or McDaniels?

Recent FanPosts

Bronco-pride_small
Ranging Quarterbacks, A Comparison
Denver_broncos_small
Jack Williams... My opinion
Broncos-1024x768_small
Holic's Week 9 Predictions...
Turtle2_small
RiG's week 9 picks ATS
Walter_small
THE LEGENDARY SECONDARY
Hillis_small
Is There Value in Losing?
Luff3_small
More Simmons Love...
Zoo_080_small
my midseason report
Royalwall-1_small
Welcome To Law (Pending Physical); Order Out of Whack in Las Vegas

+ New FanPost All FanPosts >

Latest NFL Headlines from SB Nation

Buc 'Em
GAME DAY PROGRAM- (Orange) Bucs hosting Packers
Buffalo Rumblings
Web Rumblings: Buffalo Bills Links, 11/8
Arrowhead Pride
Arrowheadlines: Chiefs News 11/8

Getting Social With MHR

Facebook_badge_medium_medium
Black_generated_button

Milehighreport_email_medium

MHR Radio

SPONSORS

Web Stuff


iPing-it!

Listed on BlogShares

Sports blogs Sports Blogs
Top NFL Fan Sites
Best Football Sites

Rate Me on BlogHop.com!
the best pretty good okay pretty bad the worst

Top Blogs
Sports Blogs




General Manager/Head Coach

Milehighreport_small John Bena

Aristotle_small Jeremy Bolander

Asst. Head Coach

Mhr_small Steve Nichols

Lynch_coat_of_arms_small Tim Lynch

J_elway_870111_640_small Douglas A. Lee

Plato_bust_small Emmett Smith

Denver-broncos-button_small Ted Bartlett

The-big-lebowski_small TJ Johnson

Quality Control

800px-john_brown_painting_small mdierk