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The State of the Denver Broncos

It's time to take an honest self evaluation.  There are a lot of good things to take comfort in if you are a Broncos fan.  There are also some things that need to be faced that should keep you awake at night.  I want to look at both.

Coming from a coach's perspective, folks shouldn't panic over one game.  On the other hand, folks shouldn't get too excited over the 3-0 mark we were at before the KC loss.  What we have on our hands is a very, very good team that has some terrible flaws.  Yes, we beat SD and NO, but the games were close enough to be decided by a two point conversion and missed FGs.  We beat Oakland, but that's not much to brag about.  We also lost to KC, and that's a concern.

We'll look at what can be adjusted for and what probably can't, and where this puts the team as it continues The Quest.

Read on...

Star-divide

The Negatives

1) Pass rush

More than any other factor, Denver's lack of an effective pass rush is allowing opponents to score against Denver.  Thanks to MattR (who has very kindly sent me DVDs so I can break down the games) I have watched and rewatched the front four and front three.  There is a lot to examine.

First, the DTs are not effective.  If one factor could turn around this team on defense, it would be having one, dominant defensive tackle.  The tackles are not demanding the kind of double teaming that allows the DEs to do their jobs.  As I've written before, one great DT makes the other DT look great too.  Neither of our DTs is threatening the pocket enough.

Second, the DEs are better than what I expected, but still falling short.  I noticed in the TB game that the outside rushers often got through, but were always a second or two too late.  Dumervil's finger is a part of the problem, but a very small part.  He can't use his hand as well when he has to fight off offensive linemen, and his tackilng should be less then desirable.  But this is a minor excuse that falls flat.  Despite the talents we have at pass rushing DE, the best rushers seem to be the guys who are built to stop the run (such as Ekuban).

Fans love flashy, speedy DEs.  I like them too!  But when the DTs can't occupy at least three OLmen, the DEs are going to struggle.  At times like these, more powerful (albeit slower) DEs like Ekuban are more likely to fight through the trash than the speedsters.  Unfortunatley, they will be slow.

Third is play calling.  I'm always the first to jump in to defend a coach (go figure).  But I can't do it here.  On 3 man fronts with one gap linemen, a fourth rusher has to come in from one of the LBs.  Denver shows a LB near the line to come in, but that LB ends up (more often than not) falling back into coverage.  This creats two problems.

  1. Why is the defense telegraphing the LB?  In a one gap 3-4 set-up, the whole point of the fourth rusher is that the offense doesn't know where the LB is coming from.
  2. Having said that, the telegraphed guy doesn't even rush!  Worse, nobody else comes in either!  You don't get pressure in the NFL with 3 rushers alone.

Some aspects of the pass rush can be fixed.  Slowik is a "teaching" coach, and can improve on some shoddy play by the DL.  Our best DE (Doom) will heal up and improve.  But the thing we may have to face moving forward is that this team continues to lack a full time, durable, effective DT. 

2) The Secondary

First, let's cut the corners some slack.  Bailey and Bly are terrific corners, Paymah is good enough, and Williams has potential.  But without the pass rush we just talked about, these guys can't be expected to cover receivers for more than a few seconds on their own.  That said...

Bailey made a comment I found disturbing.  He mentioned the importance of keeping plays "in front" of ourselves.  This is zone thinking.  Bailey is a lock down corner, and Bly is a gambler.  Both CB types require an attacking mentality, and a focus on disrupting the reception (through a break up or an INT).  Instead, reading Bailey's words and watching game tape I'm shocked at what I'm seeing.  Our CBs are playing over the receivers instead of being used aggresively.  Why is this?  I think I have the answer, and and it is ugly.

Denver wants the LBs focused on the run.  For this reason, there isn't a lot of blitzing.    Also, Denver uses a SAF in the box, or even zoned mid range to cover for the run.  Fearing the big plays, Denver's CBs are being asked to act like safeties, and to keep the plays in front of them.  This causes two problems.

  1. Denver is likely to give up short and medium range passes, because the CBs are playing over the top.
  2. Denver also gives up the big plays, because the CBs are playing without deep zone coverage from two safeties.

This approach is too cute for my tastes.  I was never a pro level coach, and I'm sure Coach Slowik would wring my neck for being a know it all.  But I am having a hard time understanding a defense that gives up everything to fix one problem.  Afraid of the run?  Focus on the front seven! 

This problem can be fixed.  Let the secondary focus on the pass like they should.  Let the CBs play "on" or "underneath" coverage, and let the SAFs ignore the run so they can play over the top of the receivers.  INTs and break ups will start happening, and the SAFs will now be in position when a CB isn't.  Even if a run gets through the front seven, there will be two safeties waiting.  Then you can fix the front seven, which leads to my next point.

3) Stopping the run

The fear of every defensive coordinator is the inablitly to stop a team from jamming the ball down one's throat with the run.  One can over compensate for this fear to the detriment of pass defense, and this (in my opinion) is what is happening.  Worse, the run defense is still not getting the job done.

Several folks have expressed little concern for the defense, stating that the first 3 teams Denver played were offensive power houses.  I disagree.  Oakland is a basement team, and SD and NO (while very good) where banged up before the games.  Still, when a team sacrifices a safety into the box to stop the run, and can't stop that run, the run defense is in serious trouble.

To be effective in a one gap defensive line system, each DLman has to shoot a gap, forcing the OL to clear them.  If wildly succesful, the DL penetrates and blows up the run in the backfield.  If succesful, the RB has nowhere to go.  If moderately succesful, the LBs are untouched by the OL, and make the tackle near scrimmage.

Denver isn't getting these results.  I see two reasons.

  1. Again, the DTs just aren't being effective.
  2. Denver's desire for pass rushing DEs doesn't place enough emphasis on having the less sexy (but more powerful) run stopping DEs in place.

We just had a wonderful reloading season, and brought in at least two solid performers (Clady and Royal).  What we didn't bring in was a dominant DT (Robertson doesn't look bad, he just doesn't look good).

The LBs actually don't look too bad to me.  They are fast, they are swarming, and they are tackling well enough.  The problem is that opposing RBs can get enough penetration with the OL and enough momentum that the LBs are getting hit instead of having the time to do the hitting.  They aren't getting the protection that they should, and they aren't getting the extra quarter of a second to respond that the DL should buy for them.  I entered this season with concerns for the LBs and the DL.  But from watching game film, I feel the LBs are alright, and not getting the partnership they need from the DL.

Let me take a moment to stress a few things I've been writing about that have provoked debate at MHR, but where I feel vindicated.

  • The realoading season was terrific, but we failed to address the heart of the problem on defense - defensive tackles.
  • Folks love speedy, pass rushing DEs.  Some at MHR even wanted one on each end.  Guys, we have to have more power on this line, and that means we need more Ekubans to go with the Dumervils.
  • We must get both of our safeties in deep zones if we are going to stop deep passes.  It allows our CBs to do more, and it protects the deep field by more than half (even though only one additional player is brought in to cover it).

4) Jay needs to work on a few of the small things

Jay is a great QB.  I would put him in the top 5 right now (and in only his seconf full year).  But he is not yet a Peyton Manning, a Tom Brady, or a John Elway.  Some will take my remarks as critisicm, but I'm in good company with Guru's latest grades.

Jay has two or three minor faults.  Correct these, and Jay goes from great to legendary.

  1. Jay telegraphs his throws by watching his primary target for far too long.  Jay will get better, and this will fall to the wayside.  But for now, it leads to a loss of down here and there.
  2. Jay can take chances because he is so good.  I see him throwing balls off balance that still go right on target.  But he needs to trust his check downs too.  This means watching the whole field.
  3. Jay needs to spread the ball.  The stats can be deceiving.  It looks to me like Jay gets the ball to different receivers because different receivers are the primary targets for a specific play, and not because he is spreading the ball on his own.  This is one observation I am not fully confident on, and I may be reading the game film wrong.

Jay is one area of the game that I wouldn't do a thing about.  Telling him to scale things down will take him out of his element, and cost a little confidence.  He'll find the right balance in taking chances as his career goes on.  Good coaching will correct the telegraphing issue.

5) The run game

Our YPCs are decent.  I disagree with the observation that "If you take away this big run and that big run our run game isn't so great".  I disagree because the little runs set up the big runs, and you can't take away something that happened, good or bad.

However, there are some major flaws in the run game.

First, we just aren't running the ball enough.  We spent the first three weeks entertaining the fans with a wonderful airshow.  That will win a few games, but it won't get you far.  I always preach that a balanced offense is a requirement to win games.  We didn't close out the SD and NO games because we wouldn't run the ball and control the clock.  We just flat out didn't protect comfortable leads.  This means we aren't doing a good enough job wearing down defenses over the course of a game either.

We also aren't using much in the power run game dept.  Rotating RBs is fine with me.  I even endorse such a course.  But why aren't we rotating in Pittman (our power guy)?  First we don't wear down defenses by running more often, and when we do run we don't use any element of power to help ensure that the defense gets tired.

Here again, what we do pleases the fans (everyone likes big run plays here and there), but isn't sound football (consistently racking up medium yards each running play).

6) Turnover issues

This issue reared it's ugly head in KC, but in a big way.  No matter how good a team is, the odds drop dramaticaly if you lose the turnover battle.  Think about KC.  We were still in the game up until the end, but multiple turnovers over the course of the game kept us from being in the lead.  Jay is forcing the ball a lot, but he's good enough to get away with it most of the time.  But the guys fumbling the ball have little excuse.

7) Coverage teams on special teams need to improve

We can't give up TDs and yards like we have been.  It's a terrible sign that we have to risk Champ Bailey on our coverage teams because the coverage teams can't do it on their own.

 

The Positives

1) We are 3-1

This means that we have bought ourselves time to fix our problems.  We have a good record, we lead our division, and have a winning record against the team most likley to challenge us in our own division.  We control our destiny.  With the loss to KC, we are still on track for the 10-6 (or better) season that I predicted.

2) The Offensive line is great

Jay finally gets sacked in the fourth game.  WIthout Nalen, the OL still looks great.  They give Cutler time, and they keep him safe.  Rookie Clady looks like he's been playing in the pros for years, and Harris (playing in his full full season) at the other tackle position has been rock solid.  Wiegmann has stepped in filled Nalen's shoes without missing a beat.  Could the run blocking be better?  Sure.  But overall the line is doing a superb job, and the run game will pick up over time with the new faces.

3) We have youth and amazing talent all over the offense

Not only is the youth movement on the OL ahead of their time, but we finally have the QB in Cutler that can stop the Elway comparisons.  This kid is good on his own. 

Marshall is making a household name for himself, and seem to be on the straight and narrow in his personal life (doing an amazing job with kids in the community where he has purchased thanksgiving meals for each family and spends hours being a role model).

Rookie Royal has proved me wrong.  I thought he would be perfect as a slot receiver and returner, but he has proven himself to be a terrific threat across from Marshall.  This is the receiver that many of us wanted.  A speed demon who can stretch the field and prevent Marshall form double coverage.

Graham is older, but the best blocking TE in the League, and is proving several skeptical Broncos fans wrong about his ability to catch the ball.  Scheff and Jackson remain credible threats.  (Stokley at slot isn't young either, but he's always reliable).

Pittman is a good RB who may not be getting enough playing time (if you buy my points earlier on).  I believe Young  and Hall could do better if they had enough carries to get in a rhythm.

4) Most of our problems can be fixed  

We have the players that we have.  I'm not a big fan of making changes mid stream, and am skeptical of making a trade at this point (though it might help).  DT is the one position we most need help at.

For better or worse, here's what a former HS coach with no business telling the pros what to do, would tell the pros:

  • When using three defensive linemen, please send a fourth player in to rush the passer
  • Don't telegraph who that fourth player is
  • Give our corners a chance to do what they do best.  Play both safeties deep to stop the big plays and allow the CBs a chance to gamble a little
  • Run the ball more.  Wear down the defense.  Control the clock.  Make Cutler's job even easier than it already is.  Just run the ball more!
  • If the pass rush doesn't work, blitz a little.  But at the end of the season, make some changes.  Blitzing should be a convienence, not a neccessity.  We need a consistent pass rush from the front four.  Lack of sacks is ok, but pressure must be consistent.

5)  A tough part of the schedule is behind us, and we came out looking good

My thoughts before the season started were that we would win one game against Oakland, with a 50/50 shot of winning the other game.  I felt we would lose a game to SD, with a 50/50 shot of winning the other game.  I picked New Orleans as a team that matched us well, and could be a problem on our schedule.  Well, we beat all three.

I believe I picked us to beat KC in one game, with a better than even chance of winning the other game.  Oops.  (GIve credit where it is due.  KC played a good game, and earned the win).

Frankly, I didn't expect us to be 3-1 at this point.  Down the road we face NE without Tom Brady, and a JAX team that is getting decimated by injuries.  (TB, CAR, and ATL may be better than once thought though, and BUF and NYJ look better too).

6) Most of our problems on the defense are scheme, not player related

This means that most of the players on the defense will look better with some tweaks.  Despite the problems I see on offense, I actually like what I see from the SAFs, the CBs, and the LBs.  I think they are put out of position too much because of calls coming in from the sideline.  I think this will get addressed.

7) We are a young team

The young guys are playing better than expected for young guys.  Where there are issues with play, the guys will only get better.  I don't like the calls coming in from Slowik and Bates on the side of the field, but both coaches are good teachers that can improve individual techinique issues.  Now if only Shanahan would call a coaches meeting to discuss the playcalling a little...

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

So where are we?  We're not as good as our record (winning close games), and we're not as bad as our loss to KC.  We as fans get excited by wins, and depressed by losses.  The truth is somewhere in the middle.

In my mind, we are doing a lot as a team to please the fans.  Everybody loves the pass happy game.  Everybody loves to see rushers play on the ends of the defensive line.  Everyone prefers speedy running backs over slow but strong power backs.  But that's not a formula for winning.  Teams that go deep in the playoffs have to be able to run the ball and stop the run.  We are doing neither with any consistency.

We are playing better than other teams in the AFC West (except KC in the KC game).  We are likely to finish with a winning season, and I think we make the playoffs (as a low seed or wildcard).  But we are not a dominant team on both sides of the ball, and we need more balance if we hope to go deep this year.  In short, we are good, but one dimensional.

We need better defense to go with our offense, and we need a running game to go with our passing game.

What is the Quest?  If it is to make the playoffs, or to be a better team than last year, I think we're in good shape.  I also think we are only one or two players away from a SB caliber, dynastic team.  Zappa seems to think that this is a 13-3 year, and I think Guru might put us in the third year of a five year plan.  I think we're one year removed from a great shot at a SB.  We have the core in place, but need a playmaker or two on the defense (DT and perhaps a LB) to take off.

Or maybe Torain will come back and shock the NFL in few weeks.  Don't leave La La Land yet.  It's still early in the season, and even with close games we are still off to a good record.

Poll
Denver's record at regular season's end:
13-3 or better baby! La La Land rules!
35 votes
11 or 12 wins. We are a terrific team. KC was a bump.
222 votes
9 or 10 wins. We are good, but still need to fix some things.
364 votes
7 or 8 wins. This team is in trouble.
29 votes
7 wins or less. Here comes the big collapse! (this option is also for the trolls out there)
6 votes

656 votes | Poll has closed

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Nice job

all those points are totally valid. A couple of questions though. I didn’t watch the game so I couldn’t see how the defense was playing. On that note, did we experiment with the 3-4 at times? If we did, do you really think that is a good idea considering the troubles our defense is having? I know the coaches want to find something that works, however I think this may confuse our defense and make things worse. Just some thoughts.

"It doesn't dissipate" ~ Mike Shanahan

Cutler's 4th qtr/OT game winning drives: 4

by weazel on Sep 29, 2008 7:06 PM MDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I don't think our guys would be confused by the changes.

Things that confuse players are more likely to be changes in terminology, or major system overhauls. Most people think that there is a major change between a 4-3 and a 3-4, and there is on the field. But in terms of what a player has to “re-learn”, the differences are really pretty minor.

"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe

by hoosierteacher on Sep 30, 2008 4:27 AM MDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Even so

Wouldn’t it be better to stick to one than to change back and forth? Regardless of which way we go, hopefully we can create some kind of pressure up front. Oh and since we are on the subject do you think we are capable of having an effective 3-4 like other top defense teams in the league. Thanks in advance for you answers.

"It doesn't dissipate" ~ Mike Shanahan

Cutler's 4th qtr/OT game winning drives: 4

by weazel on Sep 30, 2008 6:47 PM MDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Good questions

To run a 3-4 (whether a one or two gap version), you really need to have a dominant NT. We don’t have that. I DO believe we have the LBs to run a good 3-4. I also agree with you that we should stick with the 3-4 or the 4-3. In my mind, we are more of a 4-3 team because of our weakness at DT / NT.

One great NT would give us the ability to play 3-4 or 4-3. either one (in my opinion)

"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe

by hoosierteacher on Oct 1, 2008 1:50 PM MDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Where we are versus where we will be.

I agree with most everything you said. I will be making a Fanpost on what I think we should do on defense. I have been thinking the same thing regarding our secondary, but I have some different suggestions for the front seven.

Overall though, you summed up well where we are right now. However, the key to our season, as it is every year for every team, is how you finish or improve throughout a season. When you have a young team in new schemes, like we do, then there is always a great opportunity for improvement through the year.

I think by season’s end we will have a stronger rushing attack. Play calling, the return of Torain, and improvement by the line and backs will be the difference. On defense, I still see a lot of missed assignments (gap assignments). I think a lot of this is because Slowik is still experimenting, trying to find the magic formula. When they finally settle down into a primary alignment, and just let the guys play the same responsibilities, this more than anything will reduce the big plays. But I have a suggestion I will fanpost.

by The Gun Young on Sep 29, 2008 7:12 PM MDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I agree.

Great point on the youth. They are still learning, and we have a terrific opportunity to improve. I look forward to the post!

"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe

by hoosierteacher on Sep 30, 2008 4:29 AM MDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Great Post HT !! Great breakdown of the team--you have renewed my hope.

Its obvious that Cutler and company will have to carry this team this year. Its possible that the KC game was a blessing in diguise—I doubt the team will seem as unprepaired, or over confident as they seemed to be this week.

The best defense is a good offense!
I hope.

by Mike Clark on Sep 29, 2008 7:41 PM MDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Great observation!

It’s always good to get a loss out of the way early as a wake up call. Everyone is forced to diagnose problems with a little more intensity, and attitudes come down to earth where they need to be in order to improve.

"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe

by hoosierteacher on Sep 30, 2008 4:31 AM MDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

INTENSITY!!!!

Several folks have already brought up what I’d consider to be the central issue against KC and for the defense all season. The Broncos have not consistently play high intensity and inspired football. The offense looked inspired through the first three weeks so I’’m willing to overlook week four. However, our defense has not looked inspired for even a whole quarter at a time.

As I mentioned on another thread, I made a point this weekend to watch good defensive teams like CHI, PHI, BAL, PIT, DAL, WAS. What did I notice? Not necessarily a huge difference in talent…but a huge difference in intensity. This may be the result of the loss of key team leaders like Wilson and Lynch or of Slowik and Co. doing a poor job getting the guys emotionally ready to play. Football is a violent sport; yet, the Broncos seem to be lacking a certain blood lust that is a key ingredient on great defenses. Until that appears, I don’t see this defense improving regardless of scheme change or personnel moves.

I think the next three weeks, and the Tampa Bay game in particular, will give us a good indication of this teams ability to bounce back from adversity and harness the emotional energy necessary to be a great football team. Again, the Giants were not the most talented football team last year…but they were the most inspired.

GO BRONCOS!!!

by UnarmingMermaid on Sep 29, 2008 7:47 PM MDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

UNBELIEVABLE!

What an awsome report! I can’t tell you enough, how in depth, and agressive this report is. You have mannaged to
fill us in on every incidental tidbit of information that we all wanted, but, the insight is exactly what we expect from U! Thank U.

I have said this before, but, once again. It isn’t the players, it is, the coaching. The tallent is there, it simply isn’t being used. The staff is not doing the job that they should, week in and week after week, looking at the team coming in, and adjusting to it. ST! Who is looking at the game tape there?

The, what I call irresponsible, desisions of the D coordinater, WHAT R WE TRYING TO DO THERE?

Why do we try the 3-4?

So we R not getting a pass rush! That is personnel, and U cannot put the blame on a guy with a bad Pincky!

All in all, I feal like we R in a situation that will have to be addressed by Mike. I would love to be in the coaches meeting room this week!

by metalman5050 on Sep 29, 2008 8:37 PM MDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Thanks for the kind words metal

The good thing about this loss is the coaches won’t be excusing the shortcoming in the next meeting. They’ll be trying to fix them. This should be a good wake up call.

"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe

by hoosierteacher on Sep 30, 2008 4:34 AM MDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Great article, HT

Recommended and buzzed. Many compliments for such a great summary.

I have one addition to the Cutler discussion. ESPN’s pregame had a pretty good story on Cutler’s diabetes, during which Marshall commented about how toward the end of the year last year, Jay’s passes were often pointed downward. I noticed in the KC game how Jay’s spiral is sometimes points down, and I thought that might be the reason for a lot of his dirt balls. If this is a tendency, I would think it’s correctable via mechanics?

by CoastalBronco on Sep 29, 2008 8:38 PM MDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I've noticed a lot of Cutler's "dirt ball" throws.

When Cutler is under pressure, he sometimes either forces the ball or, in the case of low throws, seems to change his mind at the last minute. I think this is less of a mechanics issue and more of an issue of still getting used to the speed of the pro game. I don’t know an awful lot about QB mechanics, but if I’m right, the problem will dissipate without coaching over time. Even if I’m wrong, the QB’s coach can fix it. It’s worth noticing, but I think it will improve over time, whatever the cause.

"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe

by hoosierteacher on Sep 30, 2008 4:40 AM MDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

What an AWESOME break down HT

Firstly, why are you not coaching at a higher level!!!!
I agree with everything you have said but only have one small problem. I like the play of DJ and Boss but just dont think Nate is cutting it.
This may sound insane, but I would like to see is blood Spencer Larsen. The kid is a player, a hitter is passionate and is EXACTLY what this team needs.
I am officially starting the SPENCE FOR MIDDLE LINEBACKER FAN CLUB.
I was totally distressed by the lask of passion on the weekend and think we need a guy like Larsen to bring some fire!
He is a natural leader and one of the most feared players in the Pac 10.
Thanks again HT!

by boydy2669 on Sep 29, 2008 8:47 PM MDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Agree with your comments on HT

but I think we try Niko at MLB rather than Spencer. I agree that the guy is a player and is our future, but he is much more of a Will than a Mike and I am afraid we might get him off track by moving him to the middle. Just a thought.

That’s ok with me. We’re playing for wins, not media publicity....HT 9/11/08

by firstfan on Sep 30, 2008 12:05 AM MDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Spencer played Mike in college

but if you are saying he has speed and tenacity, or maybe is just a smaller player, you have a point.

I love his smarts though. Add it to the whole package, and I think we could very well be talking starting ILB.

I do however agree that we should consider Niko before Spencer. But I can just as easily see us staying with Nate. He is at once one of the most frustrating players I have ever seen, and one of the most enjoyable. I have to keep reminding myself that he will be going into his tenth year next year…

Mountains, forest, sea: these render man fierce, but yet do not destroy the man.

by styg50 on Sep 30, 2008 12:49 AM MDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I will join the Spencer for MLB FC.

I was so high on Niko when we got him. I thought it was going to be the perfect fit. However, if he couldn’t beat out Nate… I have my doubts about his abilities. I do like that he is not out of position as much as Nate. Maybe that is what we need now cause Boss and DJ are playing well on the outsides.

I haven’t given up on Niko. I wouldn’t mind seeing more of Spencer. I like that Nate flies around lossing his helmet all the time, but right now I think his play is a weakness. The way I see it is they are all out of a job if we don’t see improvement, because it may be number one or number two position to fill in next years draft. I think this is really why I want to see Spencer. Cause if we don’t see more of him now, we may not see him ever.

With that said. Spencer for MLB. What do we have to lose? (HT – I think this is one of the problems for the DT’s. We don’t have a MLB, whether scheme or player, that opposing O-lines respect.)

My image is the Circa 1960-’61 Broncos home uniform sock. Some what folk lore to me ... but referred to as the clown sock by my Dad.

by YellowStoneBronco on Sep 30, 2008 9:30 AM MDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

A quick word on the helmet thing.

I finally saw some game film (thanks to MattR’s graciousness), and I think the helmet thing is a bit of a let down. It’s not because he’s flying all over the place. Really, he’s wearing a do-rag on his head, and the helmet isn’t snug. I may sound a little stodgy here, but I think that could be an injury waiting to happening. This old coach isn’t amused!

: )

"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe

by hoosierteacher on Sep 30, 2008 12:37 PM MDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Time to trade Webster, Winborn or K-2 before they get any older

It would be nice to get another draft pick and free up some playing time for Larsen and Woodyard.

by Arctic Bronco on Oct 1, 2008 11:01 PM MDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Thanks so much boydy

I’m not coaching at a higher level because I’ve changed careers, but more importantly because the jump from HS coaching to college is just plain crazy! I had one offer (to a small program), but I know my limits. That’s why I try to be careful “giving advice” to the pros. I may question what Slowik is doing, but I have to acknowledge that he knows more about defense than I ever will.

Larsen is certainly making a name for himself. I think there may be some moves on defense if things don’t improve, but coaches always try to adjust what is already in place first.

"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe

by hoosierteacher on Sep 30, 2008 4:45 AM MDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

FAs in 2009

I’m not very knowledgeable on the NFL players so maybe some of you can help me out on this. I’ve been wondering about some of next year’s FAs but I really don’t know how good some of the players are. I realize we’re going to be adding through the draft and we also don’t need too many players if we’re only going to cut them later, but here’s some names. COMMENTS BELOW LIST

Victor Adeyanju RFA St. Louis Rams
DL Jonathan Babineaux UFA Atlanta Falcons
DL Bertrand Berry UFA Arizona Cardinals
DL Ray Blagman ERFA Arizona Cardinals
DL Copeland Bryan RFA Buffalo Bills
DL Kevin Carter UFA Tampa Bay Buccaneers
DL Shaun Cody UFA Detroit Lions
DL Dwan Edwards UFA Baltimore Ravens
DL Demetric Evans UFA Washington Redskins
DL Fred Evans RFA Minnesota Vikings
DL Ronald Fields UFA San Francisco 49ers
DL La’Roi Glover UFA St. Louis Rams Free Agent
DL Kedric Golston RFA Washington Redskins
DL Howard Green UFA Seattle Seahawks
DL Otis Grigsby RFA Minnesota Vikings
DL Tommie Harris UFA Chicago Bears
DL Jason Hunter RFA Green Bay Packers
DL Tank Johnson UFA Dallas Cowboys
DL Antwan Lake UFA New Orleans Saints
DL Louis Leonard ERFA Cleveland Browns
DL Tony McDaniel RFA Jacksonville Jaguars
DL Rob Meier UFA Jacksonville Jaguars
DL Jayme Mitchell RFA Minnesota Vikings
DL Anthony Montgomery RFA Washington Redskins
DL Mike Montgomery UFA Green Bay Packers
DL Eric M. Moore UFA St. Louis Rams
DL C.J. Mosley UFA New York Jets
DL Ryan Neill ERFA Buffalo Bills
DL Rob Ninkovich RFA Miami Dolphins
DL Julius Peppers UFA Carolina Panthers
DL Kenny Peterson UFA Denver Broncos
DL Ryan Sims UFA Tampa Bay Buccaneers
DL Paul Spicer UFA Jacksonville Jaguars
DL Michael Strahan UFA New York Giants
DL John Thornton UFA Cincinnati Bengals
DL Marcus Tubbs UFA Seattle Seahawks
DL Jyles Tucker RFA San Diego Chargers
DL Kenechi Udeze UFA Minnesota Vikings
DL Jimmy Verdon RFA Cincinnati Bengals
DL Kevin Vickerson UFA Tennessee Titans
DL Gabe Watson RFA Arizona Cardinals
DL Jeff Zgonina UFA Houston Texans

Julius Peppers had been mentioned last year but I’m not sure if he’d sign and I have questions about both his price and production.

Another name that caught my attention for whatever reason is Le’Roi Glover. Can’t say I know anything about him but he might be willing to leave if St. Louis continues its losing ways, and he could eventually fall to a youth movement. It appears that he’s a second stringer now.

Kevin Carter. Another player whose name I recall but I don’t know if he has any value at this point. I seem to recall older players who’ve passed their prime but may still help us depth-wise.

Shaun Cody. He came up in the context of the Foxworth trade. He’s still young. The question, as with the others, would be — do we want to make a commitment if he’s not a sure-fire starter? I’d rather be fairly certain that the FA can play a role, especially if they’re an older player with diminishing production (which I don’t mind, since this is mostly about adding depth to the DL position).

I just don’t see much help in the FA market but I’d like to hear some opinions. There’s probably some trades that could be worked out but I’m even more in the dark there.

Anyone got any ideas regarding adding some help?

by Colinski on Sep 29, 2008 9:36 PM MDT reply reply actions actions   1 recs

Peppers would cost too much.

I think Dwan Edwards might be a cheaper alternative. Maybe even Kenechi Udeze as well..

If God is not a Bronco fan, then WHY are sunsets Blue and Orange? - Jon Tollerud 5/22/08

by Zappa on Sep 29, 2008 10:36 PM MDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Yes, that was my thought

And I have to wonder if he’d leave considering he’s played in North Carolina his entire life. There just isn’t much to choose from in the FAs.

by Colinski on Sep 29, 2008 11:11 PM MDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

remember our last DL free agents??

DT Sam Adams
DE Simeon Rice

NO THANK YOU!

Build in the draft first.

fader nation is a conquered nation

"Jerry Jones is Al Davis with a smile!"

The creator of the following names: conquered fader nation, Phyllis and his merry men

by mdierk on Sep 29, 2008 10:50 PM MDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

They were really old and way past their prime

I was looking more for some character guys with something left in their tank. I’m not down on FAs, but there’s a very limited amount of cost-effective talent available since teams just aren’t relinquishing their impact defensive players, particularly DLs, and those that are relinquished are over-priced or character problems. I’m merely trying to identify a few Free Agent DLs who , for various reasons, may still be able to contribute to our team. The main idea is that we don’t even have one average DT at this point, and I don’t think we can fix the problem through the draft alone. At least not unless we are able to draft a super talented DT, but I don’t see one in next year’s draft, although I could be wrong.

I figured the Broncos had done their homework when they picked up Rice and Adams. I was a naive, and I really have to wonder how those personnel decisions came about.

by Colinski on Sep 29, 2008 11:41 PM MDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

To be honest...

…at the time, I had mixed feelings, but was excited about the acquisitions. Rice bothered me because of his behavior (such as being critical of Pat Tillman, who signed up to be an Army ranger and left football), and it turned out to be a terrible, terrible move on our part. Adams was another player who looked like he might be a playmaker, but he was awful as well.

I want to build through the draft, but the bad thing is that most DTs take a few years to develop. We have a great window in ‘09 for a SB run (before contracts start coming due), and that migt tempt the front office to go for a FA. But as bad as we got burned last year, I think we’ll be much more careful.

"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe

by hoosierteacher on Sep 30, 2008 4:53 AM MDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I'll be honest

I was hopeful, largely because we didn’t need to find a lot of help in the trashbin, just a few still useful players. We found none, or at least none who could make the scheme work.

My biggest problem was with their growing reliance on veterans, and that was because of draft results more than strategic emphasis. The attitude, expressed by Sundquist (I think), that they were only a few pieces away struck me as dangerous over-confidence. They were looking for spare parts to add to the top rather than attending to the foundation.

Re: FAs. I don’t see much out there. I’ve recently suggested adding in a small way (like this year) to the DL because of the long development curve of DLs. There were few players available, however, and the cost-effectiveness isn’t necessarily better but the risk is lower. I suggested Green Bay’s RFA, Colin Cole, based on a few factors. He’s only making a million & half now on his tender offer. He’s got some size. He’s behind a talented DL and might be better than most team’s reserves. The idea was to solidify the DTs rather than play craps with high priced starters. We still desperately need depth, and some veterans to tide us over as draftees develop.

by Colinski on Oct 1, 2008 4:14 PM MDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

DT is such a tough position to get.

DEs are easier to gauge, but DTs take longer to develop and the greats are hard to find.

I would like to draft three or four and see what happens. I’d also like to pick up a few servicable guys (high character) within a medium price range to hold us over. But realisticaly, we won’t target that many DTs. DTs high in the draft are too much of a risk in my book (though they excite me at draft time), and I’d rather have a few midrounders.

I agree with our need for depth, and the approach you advocate.

"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe

by hoosierteacher on Oct 1, 2008 5:14 PM MDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

DT crop

There is little consensus at this point, and there’s numbers. Ordinal rankings vary and the projected round taken is variable. Also, the juniors could elevate past many of the seniors. It’s the kind of scrambled situation that places a premium on scouting, and the lack of consensus should make drafting for character easier.

Here’s a tool for visualizing the shape (i.e., distribution) of the class. Here’s a rating showing projected pick overall I’d like to see them use their 3rd and 4th picks on DTs. There appears to be a ‘sweet spot’ in the distribution through rounds 2 – 5.

by Colinski on Oct 3, 2008 12:26 AM MDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

That's fair.

My head has been enlarged from the compliments. Thanks!

"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe

by hoosierteacher on Sep 30, 2008 4:54 AM MDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I just rewatched Bailey

through three games (I don’t have a copy of KC yet) and except for the occasional bump coverage call, his play looks to be one of the deepest versions of zone I have ever seen. He looks exactly like a SAF out there, he almost never attacks the ball and he is less involved in the run game than I have ever seen him.

I have this funny feeling that he is truly being used as the second safety in an effort to stop the run. They are counting on his elite skills to allow him to transition between a SAF responsibility in a deep zone up into a route responsibility when a receiver presses him. The result is that he is only getting production out of the mid to deep routes, where he has had some great pass defenses and his tackle for a fumble. Everything else is in the receiver’s hands long before he can show up to defense the pass, so he ends up playing safety and defensing the ball carrier. It is a depressing site, because Champ isn’t getting any younger out there.

BTW, this post is awesome, especially your points on stopping the run. Shanny seems to have given the priority call to stopping the run, and with no depth at DT, Slo has gotten creative. We couldn’t agree more that until the DTs produce, this defense will fear the run, as they should. I’m also with you in wishing that wouldn’t be as scared of it as they are, but they are the pros, and if they want to fret over it, that is up to them. The lengths they are going to to stop it reek of desperation, and that too is sad.

Again, great post HT, and rec’d!

Mountains, forest, sea: these render man fierce, but yet do not destroy the man.

by styg50 on Sep 29, 2008 11:07 PM MDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

regarding Champ

he is also being used as a “safety” on our coverage teams, a sure sign of desperation.

I don’t like how he is being used, and it is only rivalled by my distaste for how DJ has been used up to this point. Champ is not a “safety blanket” who plays so that other players or coaches can keep sucking their thumbs.

At this rate, Champ’s star will fade out. It doesn’t take long.

(that comes off as more agitated than I really am, but it is accurate)

Mountains, forest, sea: these render man fierce, but yet do not destroy the man.

by styg50 on Sep 29, 2008 11:11 PM MDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: his star. I was thinking the same thing

I’m concerned because players do lose their edge when they’re misused for an extended period of time, and it’s a mental decline more than a physical one. Bailey may be the best CB ever and we’ve squandered his talents the last two years.

by Colinski on Sep 29, 2008 11:51 PM MDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I'm with you 100%

I’m frustrated that Champ has been asked to keep the play in front of him. So much for shutting down 50% of the field. Champ’s only job needs to be to shut down a passing option. While he would only take one player out of the game, it would make everyone else’s job much easier. This isn’t Champ’s fault at all. He’s being miss-used.

Argggh!

"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe

by hoosierteacher on Sep 30, 2008 4:58 AM MDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

trade up and draft

the mlb from usc and in the second and third round get a dt and safety and call it a day

The quest is the Highway to the Danger Zone-Kenny loggins

by TommyTSlice on Sep 29, 2008 11:51 PM MDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

My draft hopes.

The DT play is at the heart of our problems, in my opinion. Fix the DT, and the DEs rush better, the MLB looks better, and the whole defense just improves. I like our safeties, but there are too many good safeties in this draft to pass up. I guess I want DT first, and MLB and SAF second.

"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe

by hoosierteacher on Sep 30, 2008 5:02 AM MDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

in my mind bailey should be playing

more aggesively and dj should be used as a pass rushing lb

The quest is the Highway to the Danger Zone-Kenny loggins

by TommyTSlice on Sep 29, 2008 11:56 PM MDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Bailey isn't being passive.

The coaching is using him as a zone in off coverage. DJ isn’t being blitzed much, but he is also having to mess with the communications helmet, which he doesn’t like.

"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe

by hoosierteacher on Sep 30, 2008 5:03 AM MDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Outstanding analysis HT!!!!

I only have one issue with your post and that is your self deprecating attitude toward your analysis of the modern pro game. There are two things you need to understand. 1) You have a thorough and in depth X’s and O’s understanding of the game that most of us do not. 2) You have a unique ability to articulate that understanding into shirtsleeve English that even an old leatherhead like me can understand! I very, very much appreciate your thoughtful posts. You make the experience of being a Bronco fan even richer. Thank you.

That’s ok with me. We’re playing for wins, not media publicity....HT 9/11/08

by firstfan on Sep 30, 2008 12:27 AM MDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I'll echo First Fan's comment HT

First off, I think you have done an excellent job of breaking down the pros and cons of the team. I especially agree with a major point in the positives, but it’s really a great statement about all of the defensive problems:

Most of our problems on the defense are scheme, not player related

I couldn’t agree more. I believe that this statement was true throughout the 2007 season and has continued into this year. There really is no change other than stealing from Peter to pay Paul. I thought quite a bit about the talent level and the players on defense, both last year and this year. Denver is not short on talent (except the DL possibly), but I believe it’s all scheme related.

Please keep this Blog up on the reccomended reads so we can refer back to it in the comming weeks. Thank you very much for keeping the faithful focused.

"If Denver beats us, I'll walk back to Detroit" - Alex Karras

by Denver Diehard on Sep 30, 2008 3:26 AM MDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Thanks Diehard

I think we have a problem at DT. But like you said, the real problem is how our guys are being used. The good news is that it can be fixed, and we are early enough in the season (and have enough wins) to make some course corrections now.

"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe

by hoosierteacher on Sep 30, 2008 5:10 AM MDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Marcus Thomas?

How do you think he’s doing this year?

If there's gonna be a collision, you better start it. Larry Csonka..

by bradley on Sep 30, 2008 11:18 AM MDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I think he isn't playing up to his full potential.

I see some things to like (power, agility) and he turns at the waist with minimal foot work (which is great). But a few things bother me (he’s coming out of his stance a little high, not using his hands well, and fighting the line with his feet “at his shoulders” too much – meaning without one foot in front of the other). Raw, he looks like he can be something. But his technique needs work. Still, he looks better then last year, and I’m not ready to give up on him yet. Right now I would say he looks average. Average doesn’t cut it if the guy next to you is average too. At least one DT needs to be above average.

He is still young (for a DT), and has time to improve.

"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe

by hoosierteacher on Sep 30, 2008 12:45 PM MDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Check TenYardTorrents

but prepare to be a schmooze, since they are busy with 2008 film right now, and you might not find anyone willing to put up 2007 VT stuff right now.

Do you have any specific questions about Powell? I have very in depth grades on him, so I might have something on what you are looking for. My overall observation on him was he was a double team monster, but not necessarily a penetrator. But if he only has one guy on him, he will get underneath almost every time and re-establish the line of scrimmage. But he isn’t really explosive enough to threaten penetration into the pocket. He would be a huge addition to our run stopping unit, right out of the gate, but I think he would be pulled on passing downs, maybe for his whole career.

Mountains, forest, sea: these render man fierce, but yet do not destroy the man.

by styg50 on Sep 30, 2008 4:30 PM MDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Your reply was what I was looking for

I was wondering whether he’s an every down player… hoping we could pair him with Marcus Thomas.

by CoastalBronco on Oct 1, 2008 9:37 AM MDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

good observations

the killer is getting up in his stance. Against New Orleans on one of the 4th down stops at the goalline that our defense got, Thomas was stood up, and completely turned around, and sat down on his butt backwards. He was probably pretty embarrassed, since everyone else on the line won their battles. Luckily Pierre Thomas, the RB for NO, chose the wrong hole and got his legs wrapped up int eh backfield by a submarined DRob and DJ cleaned up the mess easily.

I have noticed that when DJ lines up behind DRob, we get great penetration and line play. They are both good players. But DJ seems to be only 50-50 when Thomas is in, and against KC, with no DRob at all his production was WAY down, with the SS getting most of the action.

And I agree, comparing thomas to last year is a world of difference. I am going to go out on a limb and say that unless this team suffers a major collapse, he will come on strong as early as the the end of this season. The things he is doing, from getting off the snap to driving and staying in the play will reap dividends for him sooner than later, and his coaches seem dedicated to him.

Mountains, forest, sea: these render man fierce, but yet do not destroy the man.

by styg50 on Sep 30, 2008 4:25 PM MDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

bradley

When I look at the chain of replys and comments to your question I affirm why this is the greatest site on the entire internet! What a community. Thanks styg, HT and Coastal.

That’s ok with me. We’re playing for wins, not media publicity....HT 9/11/08

by firstfan on Oct 1, 2008 1:16 PM MDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

And thank you FirstFan!

"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe

by hoosierteacher on Oct 1, 2008 1:54 PM MDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Thanks, FirstFan

I can supply the ignorance anytime! But I’m not sure I should be included with the likes of Styg and HT. :)

This is a fantastic Bronco site, though. I certainly hear you on that point.

by CoastalBronco on Oct 2, 2008 3:19 PM MDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Of course you can be included!

We’re all pretty sharp around here. : )

"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe

by hoosierteacher on Oct 5, 2008 11:17 AM MDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Thanks First.

I appreciate the comments. I think my strength is having enough knowledge of the game that I can take what I see and know and pass it on. But I also want to be honest and acknowledge that I’m not a professional coach either. I hope that’s the difference between the MSM and myself. A lot of the talking heads on TV and in print pretend to know more than they do. I know a little about the game, but I don’t want to come across like some writers who have never coached the game and pretend to have advice for the real coaches.

"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe

by hoosierteacher on Sep 30, 2008 5:08 AM MDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

THERE MAYBE A COUPLE OF GUYS OUT THERE....

I was just looking at rosters of teams whose seasons are probably done, and there are 2 gusy I think that would help our pass rush and penetration straight off the bat,
I wonder whether, with everything that has happened in St Louis that Leonard Little maybe an option for us. He still has plenty left in the tank, had 2 sacks on the weekend and is playing at a high level.
I am a USC fan and I always loved Shaun Cody. He is misused in Detroit as a NT (although he plays fairly well there) but was great in SC’s system as a DT and DE. He would really suit what we are doing.
Anyway, go check these players out….I think they bring great value, and particularly Cody as he is still young.
Thanks crew!

by boydy2669 on Sep 30, 2008 6:15 AM MDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

My thoughts about Cody

this is from a thread earlier in the year when the rumor going around was that we were going to tradeFoxworth for Cody:

I’LL TAKE HIM

Sorry about the emphasis, but this is exactly the kind of player I would be loking for witha trade. It is high risk/reward, and suits the rest of my criteria perfectly: young and a DT that would provide a hedge or option if Marcus Thomas wasn’t a go.

The risk is that while he has been ok against the run with detroit, he hasn’t been penetrating and getting into the backfield against the pass.

the reward is that, like Thomas, he came into the league as a high motor, one gap penetrating DT.

Some thoughts on why he is a relative unknown:

1. He played in detroit.

2. Marinelli is a good defensive coach, but I think he plays with hsi guys from a position standpoint way too much. He likes lighter penetrating DTs, yet he lines them up like NTs. Cody got lined up as a nosetackle a lot, where he hasn’t had the impact expected of him. We have heard this before.

3. He wasn’t an unknown his rookie year. He came on very strong, and the sky looked to be the limit with him. Remember that it takes Dlineen a couple of years to get into the swing of things.

4. He dislocated his toe in 2006 (2nd year) he was inactive for about five games, practicing and trying to come back (he has a heck of a motor and will play through pain), but after returningagaisnt arizona that year he reinjured the toe and got IRed.

5. he never got going in 2007. Between switching between being an ‘undertackle’ and a NT he never got a head of steam. In an interview he said he was hesitating, and that he thought he was tentative because psychologically he wasn’t over the injury.

6. I think that a fresh start in Denver could see the reward side of the equation come through. Even if it doesn’t pan out completely, he would be a young, adequate run stopper, and thus a building block for this defense moving forward.

If this is the trade we are considering, I say go for it.

Mountains, forest, sea: these render man fierce, but yet do not destroy the man.

by styg50 on Sep 30, 2008 4:34 PM MDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

This is why I come here.

Great breakdown. Hit the nail(s) on the head(s)

by TheMastermind on Sep 30, 2008 8:43 AM MDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Fantastic

I had been thinking stuff like this all day, but you expressed it well and added validity. I would love to watch a game with someone with an eye for the game like you, I could learn so much.

An absolutely fantastic article. I couldn’t rec or buzz it up enough.

by studbucket on Sep 30, 2008 9:42 AM MDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Buy a local coach a few beers and wings...

…and ask him over to your place. I’d go for that kind of invite!

Thanks for the rec and buzz

"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe

by hoosierteacher on Sep 30, 2008 12:33 PM MDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Tommie Harris or Julius Peppers

These are the only two I would consider giving big money too, and actually I prefer Harris to Peppers. Harris is a DT who can do it all. He stuffs the run, and gets after the QB. He also would fit right into our scheme and would help Marcus Thomas. Plus good DT help DE so maybe Moss would fulfill is potential and Doom could let it fly.

by RockyMountainThunder on Sep 30, 2008 9:48 AM MDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I think we can do well with the DEs we have.

If we need a player right now, it’s a DT (in my opinion).

"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe

by hoosierteacher on Sep 30, 2008 12:46 PM MDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Question re kick/punt returners

What’s the difference? I mean, why is a certain player good at one but not the other? (One of my many areas of ignorance.)

If there's gonna be a collision, you better start it. Larry Csonka..

by bradley on Sep 30, 2008 11:20 AM MDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Great question, and one we tossed around in another comments thread.

Here’s our best guess. Under the article, go to my comment “They mention STs…” where the conversation starts.

"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe

by hoosierteacher on Sep 30, 2008 12:31 PM MDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Thanks.

That was very informative.

If there's gonna be a collision, you better start it. Larry Csonka..

by bradley on Sep 30, 2008 1:07 PM MDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

That was a great comment HT

It is pretty cool to take a look through the window of the past. Who would have guessed that Royal would be our solid # 2 receiver?

That’s ok with me. We’re playing for wins, not media publicity....HT 9/11/08

by firstfan on Oct 1, 2008 1:36 PM MDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Quite a few people thought he would be a great #2.

I was one of the people that thought we were just being a little to optimistic about Royal, and I’m not ashamed to say that I was dead wrong. But man, am I grateful for being so wrong!

"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe

by hoosierteacher on Oct 1, 2008 1:56 PM MDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Ecellent as always HT

I was starting to get mad over the Baily isnt elite BS. He is being misused. I hate that, but really what can they do right now? ITs gonna take some time for this unit to get cohesive. Its just a fact we all are going to have to accept.
Wouldnt it be wierd to see Bert Berry back as a Bronco?

Love is a razor and I have walked the line on that silver blade

by broncfanstuckinsd on Sep 30, 2008 11:38 AM MDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Very weird.

I hope we get back on track soon. I think a lot of what troubles our team can be fixed, and even the DT problem can be adjusted for a little bit.

"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe

by hoosierteacher on Sep 30, 2008 12:23 PM MDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I was wondering if he would consider coming back.

"It's all over Fat Man" - Tom Jackson to John Madden 1977 AFC Championship Game

"I love your analysis of our team. Its kinda like watching a spider monkey trying to figure out a jar of peanuts.. you know whats going on.. you know whats in there, but to actually figure it out, is just a bit beyond your mental skills..."
- Bronco Dano

by DesertBroncoFan on Sep 30, 2008 1:08 PM MDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

33 years old...

…just got injured and expected to miss 3 to 4 weeks. Not the right answer (in my opinion).

"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe

by hoosierteacher on Sep 30, 2008 1:29 PM MDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Bummer

I didn’t see that he got injured.

"It's all over Fat Man" - Tom Jackson to John Madden 1977 AFC Championship Game

"I love your analysis of our team. Its kinda like watching a spider monkey trying to figure out a jar of peanuts.. you know whats going on.. you know whats in there, but to actually figure it out, is just a bit beyond your mental skills..."
- Bronco Dano

by DesertBroncoFan on Sep 30, 2008 3:50 PM MDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I'm so glad that I found this site

I’ve been a huge fan of the Broncos for 22 years, and never have I seen the kind of in depth analysis that HT just provided. I’m so tired of listening to the talking heads every Sunday morning, and reading the Denver Post or ESPN for my Broncos fix. They just don’t satisfy my need to know.

I think this site is everything I’ve been looking for.

Thank you all so much.

by CalgaryFan on Sep 30, 2008 12:16 PM MDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

We have a lot of terrific writers here Calgary,

and a lot of wonderful fans just like you. I look forward to reading your thoughts on the team, and thanks for the kind words.

"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe

by hoosierteacher on Sep 30, 2008 12:21 PM MDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Carlton Powell

I wonder what difference a healthy Carlton Powell would’ve made to the defense? I know he was drafted as a run stopper but Eddie Royal was only supposed to be returning kicks this year. I’m surprised that there wasn’t more of a move to get in a replacement when he went down.

Also the secondary surprises me. When you look at the comments Champ and Fox made when Coach Slowik was appointed it seemed that he was given the post almost on their recommendation and with the aim of getting the most out of Champ. You see offenses built around their strengths – take this year’s passing offense – and yet this defense seems to built around their weaknesses.

And finally I’ll echo the thanks for the analysis. Us across the pond folk wouldn’t get anything like this at all. ever. And this is one of the reasons why I love the Internet.

by mikebirty on Sep 30, 2008 3:02 PM MDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Thanks for the thanks!

I don’t think Powell would make a difference in his first year. And even though he is a run stopper, he has the brute power (or will, with experience) to force double coverage and allow the DEs to rush from the edges. I love having run-stuffers in the middle of the line. They stop runs, but they occupy the OL for the DE’s to get the rush.

We on this side of the pond send our best!

"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe

by hoosierteacher on Sep 30, 2008 3:38 PM MDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

my worry about having him inside on passing downs

is that he isn’t explosive enough to threaten to get to the QB and that most teams would adjust by chipping him with a back going into a route (a minor form of double teaming) on the grounds that even though the pocket would collapse, it wouldn’t collapse fast enough for most 3 and 5 step drops. Third and very long would be a consideration though, or any other seven step drops.

But we have yet to see him in blue and orange. He could very well be a more explosive player with experience (sort of like EK, who I think gets off the line now better than he ever did when he was younger).

Mountains, forest, sea: these render man fierce, but yet do not destroy the man.

by styg50 on Sep 30, 2008 4:53 PM MDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

You raise a good point.

There are several philosophies on how to use linemen in pass rushes. I’m not as big on collapsing the pocket from inside (up the middle), and like to see the DTs force the double teams. Even if a back has to be used to hit the DT at an angle, that’s one less defender for the DEs. But your school of thought is certainly valid too. Hitting the pocket with penetration in the middle forces “pocket” QBs into movement, and screws up their throws.

No right or wrong, just different ways to accomplish the same thing (a flattened QB).

"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe

by hoosierteacher on Oct 1, 2008 2:01 PM MDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

nice in-depth article

meat and potatoes, the way i like it. well, we didn’t get our wish at the draft this year, and this is the result. d-rob is hurt already, sooner than i expected, and shaw is hurt too, now. we released mckinley, and thomas still has a ways to go, but he is a keeper. peterson and clemons are trying, but hardly effective. so this is the table we have set here, and it will improve with better talent down the road. i love eck, as you know, and he is again proving his worth. i though crowder was more of an all-around end, but he and moss are lacking, to date. engelberger has played pretty well.

the lb’s look good enough, and we’ll have a new mlb next season. until then it’s nate, like him or not. the run defense looks improved(by design), let’s not forget the sieve we had there last season. i still prefer 8 in the box with this group to help stop the run. l.j would have had 300 yards on the ground with the front 7 defending him and that d-line. our secondary is being misused in the passing game, but i attribute that to the 3-MAN RUSH/ZONE that slowick is employing on 3rd down. it’s a killer, and i will not shutup about it until it disappears. eliminate that, play man, and we have a chance this season until we fortify the d-line. other than that, the play-calling has been good enough

offensively, i have little problems with what we are doing. i’d like more balance too, but with the rb’s/o-line we have at the moment, it isn’t our strength. forget the past, the running game is not where it was, and won’t be for awhile, yet. we’re going to have to be patient there, as well. if we’re pulling trick plays on 3rd-1, what does that tell you? either bates is getting too fancy, or we have little confidence in our running game/rb’s. i would LOVE to just run the ball for first downs/td’s, but this was rarely a strength of ours, and it certainly isn’t now. the achilles heel of our offense. like our defense, it starts up front. not physical or big enough on the lines, again by design. don’t we have a fullback to pave the way, now? let’s at least try it, it worked before. overall, bates has been very good, though

hey, 3-1. great start, alot of work to do in the coming weeks against some very stiff competition. we do need to improve the running game and passing d, and there is at least hope for the running game as it gets acclimated. cutler will bounce back, and the st’s have even shown some improvement, but remain a valid concern(thank you, champ). if we can pull out 2 wins here in the next 3, i really like our chances of making the playoffs, with a weaker schedule in the second half. as the last game showed, we can be beaten by anybody, but i believe slow improvement in some areas will take effect after the bye, and that should be enough beat weaker teams, even if we srew up a bit. i feel pretty confident after this loss, actually, as i see slow improvement in our weakest areas, which bodes well for the big picture. we just have to find a way to run for a yard or 2, and burn the 3-man rush portion of the playbook. everything else should take care of itself

hear me, perpetrators of bread crime, your punishment is at hand.
taste my blintzkrieg!

by davecheffy on Sep 30, 2008 11:58 PM MDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Short yardage offense

I think the only time we’ve been stopped on 3rd and short was Sunday when they tried to have BMarsh run it. Other than that, I can’t think of an instance where Pittman has been stopped for either a first down or touchdown.

i would LOVE to just run the ball for first downs/td’s, but this was rarely a strength of ours

Keyword was. Last year we couldn’t get through a paper wall, but this year we’ve been able to consistently score TDs from 1-2 yards out.

"It's all over Fat Man" - Tom Jackson to John Madden 1977 AFC Championship Game

"I love your analysis of our team. Its kinda like watching a spider monkey trying to figure out a jar of peanuts.. you know whats going on.. you know whats in there, but to actually figure it out, is just a bit beyond your mental skills..."
- Bronco Dano

by DesertBroncoFan on Oct 1, 2008 8:24 AM MDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

you're right. then what is the problem, play-calling?

why did we throw the ball inside the 5 for the cutler pick against s.d.? in the same game, we didn’t try to pound the ball in on first-and-goal and settled for a field goal. n.o. game, too. nothing but passes with a few yards to go and 3 downs to do it in. we had success early on when we tried to run it in, with pittman behind hillis. i haven’t seen that in a while. is it a case of getting too cute, and if so, why the cuteness? even some of our td’s were on the standard “rollout to the right-pass”, variety. i felt it had something to do with not having the confidence to execute short-yardage, but why would you pass on 3rd-short at all? if you fail, run it again! i agree we’ve gotten better at it this season, but we seem to be reverting back to passing/trying to go wide in short-yardage. we’ll see what they do with this in the next game, and if it is a trend or not

hear me, perpetrators of bread crime, your punishment is at hand.
taste my blintzkrieg!

by davecheffy on Oct 1, 2008 2:01 PM MDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

This may be pure ignorance on my part,

but I wonder if Bates is so pass happy because QB coaching is his background. I know that’s such a simplistic, stupid sounding thought that I feel kind of silly bringing it up. But where is the run game?

"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe

by hoosierteacher on Oct 1, 2008 2:05 PM MDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I'm just as flustered

It seems that when we’ve run the ball on short yardage we’ve made it (so far).

Why the cuteness? I wish I knew so that I could stop it! As soon as I saw BMarsh motion to the backfield, I thought Uh-Oh, they’re going to do something stupid and sure enough, they did.

As for what happens this week, I guess we’ll have to wait for HT’s Chalk Talk to see if we’ll do better running or passing against the Bucs.

"It's all over Fat Man" - Tom Jackson to John Madden 1977 AFC Championship Game

"I love your analysis of our team. Its kinda like watching a spider monkey trying to figure out a jar of peanuts.. you know whats going on.. you know whats in there, but to actually figure it out, is just a bit beyond your mental skills..."
- Bronco Dano

by DesertBroncoFan on Oct 1, 2008 2:12 PM MDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

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