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Sifting Thru the Ashes - defensive line

On another post someone asked if anyone could give a run down on the current defensive line. I'm no expert, but I've been putting together my own notes so here goes...

Star-divide

After the disastrous experiment with Bates and the Run Contain in 2007 I think most of us assumed that the defense would probably improve in 2008, “it couldn't possible get any worse.” Well it did! The Broncos finished 2008 near the bottom in almost every statistical category measured. With Shanahan now gone and a new HC and DC on board the question is, is there anything worth salvaging from the 2008 defense?

It's tempting to blame the debacle of 2008 on the players. But there are many signs that the system (or lack of) played a role in the poor performance. All indications are that we will converting, or at least transitioning, to a 3-4 base defense. Based on that, here are my views on the current D-line players. I'm interested in what others think.

Pass Defense

Denver finished 26 in the league in sacks with 26 sacks. However 8 of those came from LBs. In a 4-3 defense, particularly one that doesn't blitz, the lack of pressure from the places too much pressure on the Dbs; coverage must be maintained too long. This was reflected in Denver's ranking of 26th in passing yardage. Fortunately, most 3-4 systems are less dependent on the D-line for pressuring the QB, mixing in various blitzes and pass rush specialists for pressure. One bright spot – if the team does go to some kind of zone-blitz scheme, Marcus Thomas picked up one of the few interceptions for the team on a play where he dropped off into the coverage.

Run Defense

My first impression was, what defense? We ranked 27th against the run. But as I looked at the data closer I noticed that we gave up a disproportionate number of long running plays, really long running plays, 6 runs over 40 yards, 5 of them over 50 yards. Most teams gave up only 1 or 2 runs that long; only eight teams gave up more than 3. If you adjust for the league average of long runs, Denver would have ranked near the middle. Not great, but a vast improvement. The point is, in my opinion, that long runs are more the responsibility of the LBs and DBs. The first 3-4 yards is on the D-line, but after that the LBs and DBs need to stop the play. I now feel that, the D-line play on runs may not have been as atrocious as my first impression.

Defensive Tackles

D-Rob – A lot of fans were disappointed with Robertson's performance this year. I didn't expect much so I guess I was harder to disappoint. We knew he couldn't pass the physical; we knew his snaps would be limited. Given those two he was adequate, but not the dominant run stopper that many had hoped for. D-Rob is a FA and due a $4mill bonus if he re-signs (I think). In NY he didn't fit in well in the 3-4 so unless he renegotiates his contract downward I think he's a goner.

Marcus Thomas – I was hoping for a breakout year from Thomas. At times he looked like a star in the making and at other times he looked like a lost rookie. He did seem to play better in a 5-technique and he had his one interception in a zone-blitz situation. I'm not sure if he'll ever be a star, but he could be a solid contributer at DE in a 3-4.

Kenny Peterson – In limited duty, rotating with D-Rob, Peterson logged 24 tackles and 3 sacks. He also seemed to play well in a 2-gap role. He is an UFA so the team will have to make a decision. At 300# he is a bit light for a NT but he could be a valuable backup especially on passing downs. His cap value is only $611,000 so he probably will be retained for depth at either NT or DE .

Nic Clemons – The only thing you can say about Clemons is that he didn't do anything particularly wrong; he just didn't do anything particularly right either. But his cap value is less than $400,000 and there are no deferred bonuses so there's really no reason not to keep him around until camp.

Defensive Ends

Ebenezer Ekuban – Ek is an interesting player. He lead all defensive linemen in tackles and was tied with Doom for sack at 5. At 275# he is a bit light for the 3-4 but he is a consistent performer. He is an UFA and his cap value is about $1.6 mill. While a productive member of the D-line (that's relative) and not the most expensive player, he has player in a 4-3 his entire 10-year career. He is probably on the bubble in terms of being released.

John Engelburger - Like EK, Engelburger is another one of those consistent but uninspiring players on the D-line. He racked up over 30 tackles and 1 sack this year which is a typical year for him. At only 260# he is probably too light for the 3-4 and his cap value is almost $2mill. I expect Engelburger will be a Spring cut in order to free cap space to sign the draft class.

Elvis Dumervil – Many of us expected a breakout year for Doom but a preseason injury had him playing in a cast the first half of his season and that severely limited his ability to shed blockers and get to the quarterback. Also, an ill advised attempt to make him an every down player seemed to reduce his effectiveness on passing plays. Still he compiled 24 tackles and 5 sacks. At 260# he is probably too light to play DE in a 3-4, but he may have a future either as a pass rush specialist like Robert Mathis, as a conversion to LB/DE like Terrel Suggs. It's hard to say about Doom; he may thrive in the new system or he may struggle. If he struggles in camp and preseason I would expect the Broncos to trade him to a 4-3 team.

Jarvis Moss – Moss has been a puzzle since the Broncos drafted him. Light for an NFL lineman (265#) and supposed not strong enough he has struggle at times. At other times he shows flashes of being a good player. His 12 tackles and 2.5 sacks are nothing to celebrate, but considering he spent half the games on the inactive list they don't look as bad as they do at first glance. Moss is a candidate for conversion to linebacker in the Simon Fletcher mold. However, I only expect the Broncos to give him one or two more seasons to prove himself. His cap value is the same as Ek's with less than a third the production.

Tim Crowder – After being drafted in the 2nd round of the 2007 draft Crowder has been a non-factor on defense. His size and weight (275#) suit him to the 3-4 better than the other DEs on the team, but he hasn't demonstrated the ability to play at the professional level. If he doesn't show marked improvement this year Crowder will likely be a roster cut this summer.

Carlton Powell – Drafted in the 5th round out of VT Powell was impressing observers in camp when he tore his Achilles tendon. At 300# he is I bit light for NT but many expert feel he can put on 20-30# which wold put him more in the range. A 3-year starter, he has shown the ability at the college level to take on double-teams and outplayed some offensive tackles who have made it to the pros. If Powell can play NT at the pro level he would be one of the draft day steals of 2008.


Poll
The Broncos defensive line is?
just a few players away
10 votes
has some blocks to build on
46 votes
worthless - blow it up and start over
20 votes

76 votes | Poll has closed

This is a Fan-Created Comment on MileHighReport.com. The opinion here is not necessarily shared by the editorial staff of MHR

Comment 14 comments  |  2 recs  | 

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Outside of moving Thomas to end and maybe Powell to the other end, I really think we are going to need a lot of players

I agree with your assessment, I think probably two drafts away from having a good d-line.

"Me fail english, that unpossible" - Ralph Wiggum
"Duffman is thrusting in the direction of the problem" - Duffman

by Broncoman on Jan 16, 2009 5:37 PM MST reply actions  

I agree that our Dline

is being (slightly) underrated. If that is what you have said here, that is. :)

There is definitely no cohesiveness between the LBs and the D-line. They may as well be on separate planets for as well as they work together. Regarding the big runs, we also had way too many deep passes. We really need to upgrade safety as well. Champ, Webster and DJ made a lot of those downfield tackles on long runs, instead of the safeties, and I don’t think our revolving door at safety this year was an example of Shanny making a mistake about who to start… they just all sucked. Only Barrett made it into the lineup and kept his spot, but he looked like a rookie out there… (just not a seventh round rookie. More like a third or so…)

I think we have building blocks, but not in the starter sense. We can draft any position except corner on this defense and expect competition for the starting spot. Any money free agents we sign at any position except corner can be considered starters from day one. But we have a lot of players who are lost and need coaching, support, direction, and lots and lots of practice reps in a system that can take advantage of their skills.

I honestly have never seen a defensive black hole like this. 2007 and 2008 defy all attempts at logic. I look back at all of our inseason posts trying to make sense of it all, and the confusion comes rushing back. It is almost like our defense was playing a different sport for the last two years…

But I think we have the raw material to start carving a defense out.

Concision in style, precision in thought, decision in life.

by Jeremy Bolander on Jan 16, 2009 5:55 PM MST reply actions  

Innovation

I agree styg. I would like to see us devise a scheme or system that takes advantage of the unique skills of the players we have. SWG suggests using DOOM as a hybrid LB/DE. That is the type of innovative thinking that I suggest. I just don’t have any of it.

It all starts in the trenches HT 11/11/08

by firstfan on Jan 16, 2009 6:37 PM MST up reply actions  

D Rob

I thought that he played down in order to prevent the Jets from getting something for him in the trade, plus getting used to the scheme. The D may have talent, maybe it was the coaching along with poor scheming and lest we forget that the better players were on the bench while N Webster and Engleburger were whiffing tackles, we could write a small book on why the D sucked.

The only difference between insanity and genius is percecption

by Markus2112 on Jan 16, 2009 7:38 PM MST reply actions  

I think...

some of it was the trade and some was his knees. The guy can’t pass a physical. I think everyone is concerned about how well he will hold up as a full time player.

by SlowWhiteGuy on Jan 16, 2009 8:17 PM MST up reply actions  

We need at least 2 starters on the DL

We should pick up 2 NT’s and 2 DE’s either by trade, FA or in the draft. It seems to me that the survivors of the present DT’s could be Peterson and Thomas. The survivors of the DE’s could be Powell, Crowder and Moss moving to LB. I hope DOOM is able to work in the 3-4 but I am not optimistic. I hope that we commit to the 3-4 and its variations and not jump back and forth from that to the 4-3. That didn’t work very well last year at SF. After 3 DC’s in 3 years, our guys need a consistant scheme to work with that allows them to function as a unit. We have some good people that simply need to some good consistant coaching.

by Blackknigh on Jan 16, 2009 8:06 PM MST reply actions  

I forgot to mention EK

in my previous post. He is my favorite on the DL but I am concerned that he may not perform very well in the 3-4. He has tremendous heart but seems like a 4-3 guy.

by Blackknigh on Jan 16, 2009 8:11 PM MST reply actions  

I like Ek too...

I hope that came through in my assessment. But I’m afraid he may be caught in the shift to 3-4. I’m sure someone else will pick him up though. Quality backups are always needed.

by SlowWhiteGuy on Jan 16, 2009 8:14 PM MST up reply actions  

Powell at DE???

I see Powell as a NT but some of you see him at DE. Why?

by SlowWhiteGuy on Jan 16, 2009 8:15 PM MST reply actions  

I do not know why so many

people are down on Doom and people are optimistic about Moss. Doom is the better player and would be a better OLB/DE in a 3-4. yea he is a little short but he has like a 6’7 wing span. Also a lot of people have been saying he relies on his speed moves which is totally not true. Dooms best move is his Bull rush. He gets lower then the Tackle and just pushes them back. Also Doom at 5’11 260 is about the same size as James Harrison 6’0 245 and Lamar Woodley 6’2 265. Also he hurt his hand early in the year and it bothered him all year and he admitted it. Dooms hands are really important because he has to use his hands to keep the blocker off of him or push the blocker back. So you heard it here first. DOOM will THRIVE in a 3-4/4-3 hybrid scheme and out perform Moss. Though I hope Moss does well also.

by gnarlybroncodude on Jan 16, 2009 8:33 PM MST reply actions  

Agree 100% on his bull rush

I think a lot of the idea that Moss would do better revolves around Moss experience as a standup DE. DOOM has never lined up without his hand in the dirt, but that may not be his fault. Usually if a DE has no experience as a free outside rusher, there is a reason for it, but when i look at DOOM I think he has always managed to be successful in a 4-3 so no one has ever tried him outside in a 3-4.

I am eager to watch him try though..

Concision in style, precision in thought, decision in life.

by Jeremy Bolander on Jan 16, 2009 10:25 PM MST up reply actions  

I neglected to compliment you on your post.

It was insightful and thorough. I think that I was mistaken about Powell – if he is healthy he could be a good NT.

by Blackknigh on Jan 16, 2009 10:27 PM MST reply actions  

If Powell can come back healthy...

doesn’t he seem like a perfect fit for NT? Sort of a no name guy, who kills double teams, and doesn’t need the “glory” stats. Just does his job, to make another player’s easier.

From there, I'd like to say that the wheels came off, but that wouldn't feel like an accurate description. The wheels didn't just magically come off, the Raiders all got out of the car, shot the wheels off the own car, busted out the taillights, smashed the windshield and poured Splenda in the gas tank. Then they all piled back inside and started screaming, "CAR WON'T MOVE, ME SAD NOW!" - MJD Yahoo Sports

by donbok1 on Jan 17, 2009 10:09 AM MST reply actions  

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