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2009 - An Orange and Blue Dawn

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A lot of things can happen to a team when a new coach comes to town.  On a macro scale, a team can rise from the ashes or dash into oblivion.  On a smaller scale, changes can be made to player personnel or schemes.

A lot of work at MHR has gone into predicting some of these changes.  Will the defense see a 4-3 or 3-4 look?  Will salaries (like Champ Bailey's) be looked at?  Will Cutler get along with the new staff?  I don't know the answers to these questions.  But I do know that the Broncos are in the midst of an exciting time.  We have multiple draft picks on the way for the upcoming draft, we have good cap room, and we have exciting young players already in place.

For what it's worth, I want to share my thoughts on several of the changes that are coming.  I don't so much want to make any predictions, as much as I want to apply my own contexts to what may change.

Star-divide

4-3 or 3-4?

Will we see a 4-3 or a 3-4 in 2009?  We're getting ahead of ourselves guessing at that.  While a coach may lean towards a certain formation or system, the dirty little of secret of defensive coaching is that any coach can a 4-3 or 3-4 indifferently.  There really is no "3-4 coach" or "4-3 coach".

Nolan (new DC) may lean towards the 3-4, or might even lean towards a scheme that is 3-4-centric.  But he is just as capable of running a 4-3, and will look at the players he has, and what transformations he can make this reloading season.

Here are my thoughts.  We have more talent at LB than at DL, and this favors a shift to the 3-4.  However, we don't have a dominant NT to run the common 2 gap approaches, or even the less common 1 gap variations.  In the reloading season, it is easier to find LBs than to find solid DLmen.  This may be an issue for Denver in making a choice.

Also, while it is fun to speculate on this potential change, it should be put into context.  The 3-4 is not a magic formation by any stretch.  Like the 4-3, the 3-4 has advantages and disadvatages.

Advantages include -

  • It is easier to obtain quality LBs than qualtiy DLs, and thus easier to build a 3-4.
  • More "pure athletes" are on the field, since many would consider a LB to be more skilled than a DL.
  • Increased reaction time for LBs.  The LBs start further back than they would in a 4-3, so they have nearly .5 to a full second to read a play as it develops.
  • Puts more men in the short zones to disrupt passes.
  • Allows for a much larger play book, as LBs have more play uses than DLs.  This also means more flexibility for the defense.
  • Stops runs to the outside (wider spaced OLBs).

Disadvantages include -

  • It is not as effective against the inside running game as the 4-3, and most of the League is "run first" and runs the middle.
  • More often than not, a 3-4 can be more expensive to field (comparing the cost of LBs to DLs).

On first glance it would appear that there are more advantages, but this is offset by the glaring disadvantage against the run relative to the 4-3. 

So is the 3-4 a "coach driven" scheme, or is it based on personnel?

The truth is, any defensive coordinator can run a 4-3 or 3-4 indifferently.  While coaches have preferences, they more often defer to what they have available.  If the team could go either way, the coordinator is probably going with what he is more comfortable with.

What's better, the 3-4 or 4-3?

Don't get in the mind set of "better" when thinking about formations and systems.  They are different, and do different things.  While some formations and some systems are great match-ups against other formations or systems, the rule of thumb is that the team that executes their own program better than the other team executes theirs is going to prevail.

For the full MHR article on 3-4 defenses, read here.

My thoughts on Coach Collier's thoughts

I don't have the speed on my antiquated pc to catch the Collier interview that Super7 did a great job with on the front page.  But here are my takes on the substance of the interview that Super7 outlined for us.

It's an easy transition and Denver's players shouldn't have too hard of a time with it.  The Broncos will need a Nose Tackle, but their Linebackers are set up well to employ a 3-4.

I agree.  The change between a 4-3 and a 3-4 isn't too much of an impact on th players.  Things like terminology and scheme have a much more profound impact.  As stated earlier, the DL is more of a concern if we are switching to a 3-4.

A 3-4 defense isn't a 3-4 defense on any down and distance.  On 1st down, 2nd and short, and 3rd and short, Denver will play 3-4.  2nd and long will be a nickel (5 DB's) and 3rd and long will be a dime (6 DB's). 

I agree.  Of course, the same can be said for the 4-3 (it isn't run every down).  It is a little over simplistic to assign the nickle to 2nd and long, and the dime to 3rd and long though.  Many variables go into which formation takes the field, not just down and distance (for example, which personnel on the other team are lining up, and what kind of match-ups can be exploited).

The Defensive Linemen in a 3-4 are "ego surpressed" meaning that they don't get alot of praise in the system and you have to plan accordingly as a coordinator.  Maybe bringing in a big name won't work.

Correct.  Denver learned this lesson in the run contain system we ran in '07, where big name players on the DL didn't perform well.  Like many systems played in a 3-4, the run contain garners no glory for a DLman, and a big name may not be the way to go.

Elvis Dumervil has some huge potential in a 3-4.  Collier moved both Karl Mecklenburg and Simon Fletcher to Linebacker after they both played Defensive End in college and were undersized.  Collier thinks Dumervil can be a dangerous pass rusher from the outside especially when you consider that he'd either be blocked by a Running Back or nobody...

Movement to a 3-4 can allow some flexbility in how players are used.  Moving Doom to OLB or moving Thomas to DE may be viable.

Collier's not sure if Denver has anyone who can play Nose Tackle.  They're tough to find.  When Marcus Thomas' name was brought up by The Fan, Collier wasn't sure if he would fit the bill.  You can't simply put weight on Thomas and expect that he maintain his signature quickness.  This makes me assume that Denver adds a Nose Tackle through the draft and potentially Free Agency.

A 3-4 NT is the hardest position to fill in football.  QBs are more sought after, but true NTs are rarer.  Consider also that Denver would need a true NT for back-up as well.

Position Needs

Well, if we switch to a 3-4, we'll certainly need a couple of those rare NTs (including the back-up).  Another ILB wouldn't be a bad bet either.

With or without a change to 3-4, we need to take into account Bailey's contract.  I think Bailey and Bly stay this year, but we aren't getting any younger at CB, and a good CB in the draft may be a possibility.

I am of the opinion that our safeties may be ok "as is".  This may surprise many folks, but I believe that any upgrade to our front seven will improve the play of our CBs and SAFs.  A great SAF may be hard to pass up in the draft though, and (depending on the system), a SAF may be needed even more.  Who knows yet?

A switch to 3-4 might lessen the need for DEs (some 4-3 DTs can play DE in a 3-4).  If we stay with the 4-3, we may or may not need DEs.  Improvements at DT would help Doom and Moss with their game, and buy time to replace aging (but still effective) players like Ekuban and company.

On offense, I like the idea of bringing in an interior lineman.  The offensive line looks perfect at OT, but Wiegmann's age may require us to get another OC to give us some insurance for K-Lich.

I also like the idea of another TE.  Graham is still great, but getting older.  Scheff is great, but seems to get injured quite a bit.

RB doesn't concern me too much.  While we had many injuries, not all can be attributed to poor conditioning.  Like many MHR members, I like the idea of bringing back Hillis at a minimum.

Perhaps a kicker for competion, and that rounds up my thoughts on needed acquisitions.

MHR member SlowWhiteGuy has been doing a series of posts on who we might keep and let go (so far he has addressed the DL and the LBs).  It's a solid take, and I recommend you check out his thoughts too.

MHR University Requests

Mile High Report University will be starting up right after the Superbowl.  Last year we had great participation, and some great topics.  If you have any topics you want to see addressed at MHR-U this reloading season, put your thoughts in the comments section.  MHR staff member Styg50 will be onthe MHR-U faculty this year, bringing us a terrific multi-part series on desired traits by position to help us with post-combine analysis, and I hope to use MHR-U to build basic and intermediate knowledge of formations, schemes, systems, and player assignements.  Leave your questions or requests in the comments section.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I've had a bit of work related absence from MHR the past several days, and was blown away by all of the news, new members, and terrific posts (I'm still catching up).  I'm glad to be getting back in the swing of things, and look forward to your thoughts on any of the above.

Best as always,

HT

Poll
In 2009, the defense...
Will improve dramaticaly
134 votes
Will show some improvement
244 votes
Will take a couple of years to see marked improvement
42 votes

420 votes | Poll has closed

14 recs  |  Comment 57 comments |

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Comments

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Great stuff HT, as always, & Rec'd

"I am not one of those who think that coming in second or third is winning." -- Robert F. Kennedy

by Ted Bartlett on Jan 17, 2009 4:15 PM MST reply actions   0 recs

Thanks Ted!

"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe

by Steve Nichols on Jan 17, 2009 6:04 PM MST up reply actions   0 recs

Great stuff...

Lots of food for thought.

by Danno11 on Jan 17, 2009 9:46 PM MST up reply actions   0 recs

Thanks!

"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe

by Steve Nichols on Jan 18, 2009 12:41 PM MST up reply actions   0 recs

Sadly...

I think the improvements we see next year will appear dramatic (that’s how I voted) mainly because our defense over the past few seasons has been so poor. Great post, HT.

I wish Woody Paige was our coach!

by bcfunk on Jan 17, 2009 4:22 PM MST reply actions   0 recs

Almost anything will look improved.

You’re right there. Still, I hope with a new defensive staff and a few new faces that we can improve at least a little.

"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe

by Steve Nichols on Jan 17, 2009 6:06 PM MST up reply actions   0 recs

Great stuff HT

BUT: You might want to fix this part:

Collier (new DC) may lean towards the 3-4…

Unless I’m mistaken, Collier was our coach back in the 70s and Nolan’s at the wheel now. ;)

Blast and botheration.

by Silverblood on Jan 17, 2009 4:23 PM MST reply actions   0 recs

Right

Fixed that sentence. Collier’s interview was on my mind when I typed it. Thanks for the catch!

"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe

by Steve Nichols on Jan 17, 2009 6:04 PM MST up reply actions   0 recs

I wish for The Broncos to improve dramaticaly

but I would be very happy for them to just show some improvement and that’s how I voted. Great post, but I think The Broncos should really look at the Safety position.

Tactics without Strategy is the noise you hear before Defeat!

by monodono on Jan 17, 2009 4:26 PM MST reply actions   0 recs

I won't be dissapointed if we get a SAF.

Looking at things overall, I really think the front seven needs the most help. I also think that the SAF position will look better with some help in the front seven. But a great safety (with improvements elsewhere and better playcalling) could be a difference maker, and that would be exciting!

"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe

by Steve Nichols on Jan 17, 2009 6:08 PM MST up reply actions   0 recs

I keep thinking

that we are about to go back to a time when the SAF was an important position on the Broncos. I’ll miss Shanny, but I won’t miss the mishandling of the safeties…

Concision in style, precision in thought, decision in life.

by Jeremy Bolander on Jan 17, 2009 8:11 PM MST up reply actions   0 recs

Couldn't agree more...

I’ve been a fan of the safety position since the days of Lott, Smith, and Browner (all USC alums) patrolling the backfields of SF, Denver and Minnesota. Their bone crushing hits are some of my first NFL memories, or at least my most fond. But since Atwater left, I feel like I’ve been in some type of purgatory, forced to suffer through the average play of inept players. I really hope we can bring in some great players at the safety position again.

From there, I'd like to say that the wheels came off, but that wouldn't feel like an accurate description. The wheels didn't just magically come off, the Raiders all got out of the car, shot the wheels off the own car, busted out the taillights, smashed the windshield and poured Splenda in the gas tank. Then they all piled back inside and started screaming, "CAR WON'T MOVE, ME SAD NOW!" - MJD Yahoo Sports

by donbok1 on Jan 17, 2009 9:15 PM MST up reply actions   0 recs

I like the idea of picking up a TE and a K...

nothing at the top of the draft, but maybe in the 5th and 7th rounds. Shawn Nelson from Southern Miss is a TE that should be available in the 4th – 5th round range, and is pretty exciting. He’s 6’5" 233lbs. and an accomplished receiver with good speed. Not TScheff but also not a 2nd round pick.

And the kicker position has to improve. Prater may be too mentally fragile to handle a drafted kicker coming in to compete with him, but that should be expected as the idea of kicking an extra point was sometimes more than he could handle also.

From there, I'd like to say that the wheels came off, but that wouldn't feel like an accurate description. The wheels didn't just magically come off, the Raiders all got out of the car, shot the wheels off the own car, busted out the taillights, smashed the windshield and poured Splenda in the gas tank. Then they all piled back inside and started screaming, "CAR WON'T MOVE, ME SAD NOW!" - MJD Yahoo Sports

by donbok1 on Jan 17, 2009 5:11 PM MST reply actions   0 recs

Heck of a sig there!

Good point on Prater too. I don’t know what happened the second half of the season, but perhaps some competition might do him some good (or at least the team).

"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe

by Steve Nichols on Jan 17, 2009 6:10 PM MST up reply actions   0 recs

Rookie wall is my guess

but I have no idea, and I’m not opposed to bringing in some competition.

Owning the Patriots since September 9, 1960

by Darin H on Jan 17, 2009 7:52 PM MST up reply actions   0 recs

He wasn't a rookie

he was on our roster for the last couple of games in 2007 (after Sauerbrunn was given the boot) to handle kickoffs since Elam couldn’t. He had been on a couple of squads before then (Atlanta, if I remember correctly).

Though, I believe this was his first year as “The Man”.

"It's all over Fat Man" - Tom Jackson to John Madden 1977 AFC Championship Game

"tough times don't last, tough people do" - Mike "The Mastermind" Shanahan

by DesertBroncoFan on Jan 20, 2009 10:21 AM MST up reply actions   0 recs

Good draft for TEs

 Wisconsin’s Travis Beckum, Missouri’s Chase Coffman, Oklahoma State’s Brandon Pettigrew, California’s Bear Pascoe, Boston College’s Ryan Purvis and Ball State’s Darius Hill.

Personally, I would prefer Bear Pascoe, but not entirely for football reasons.

In Goodman We Trust

by Emmett Smith on Jan 17, 2009 5:46 PM MST reply actions   0 recs

Good draft for several positions.

I wonder how much we’ll go for need vs. best available?

The TE is an intriguing way to go because of the reasons I listed, but also because an addittional TE gives the offense flexibility (as in 3 TE sets).

"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe

by Steve Nichols on Jan 17, 2009 6:12 PM MST up reply actions   0 recs

HT

How would you use an H-back like Hillis in a proposed 3 TE set (I’m assuming that Hillis would essentially be one of the TEs, but if not I really need your help…)

In Goodman We Trust

by Emmett Smith on Jan 17, 2009 7:55 PM MST up reply actions   0 recs

BTW

Welcome back – we missed you

In Goodman We Trust

by Emmett Smith on Jan 17, 2009 7:56 PM MST up reply actions   0 recs

I recently read the Magic 3

post from MHR U and was thinking somthing similar. Potentially we could have Graham, Scheffler, and Hill is as our 3 TE to set up mismatches.

Another question I had about that post was that you mentioned and the diagram seems to indicate that two of the TE’s are half a step back, but this puts only 6 men on the line, unless two halves count as a whole it looked like an illegal formation. Or was the inside TE supposed to be lined up in a traditional TE spot next to the RT while the other two give us the potential to draw mistmatches with motions etc as discussed in the post?

"If you don't know where your going you might find yourself somplace else."

by BroncoJoe87 on Jan 17, 2009 8:31 PM MST up reply actions   0 recs

The diagram gets discussed in the comments...

…(if I remember correctly), and it wasn’t drawn well (it was one of my first uses of a paint program).

"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe

by Steve Nichols on Jan 18, 2009 12:47 PM MST up reply actions   0 recs

As a true H-Back...

…he could be used in any role; TE or RB. As our best runner (in my opinion) I would keep him at RB, with the ability to run block, go out for a pass, or just run. The three TEs would also have these roles, with a little less pure running.

"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe

by Steve Nichols on Jan 18, 2009 12:44 PM MST up reply actions   0 recs

MHR-U Request

Use/History of the H-Back. What is it? What does an H-Back look like, play like? Etc.

"It's all over Fat Man" - Tom Jackson to John Madden 1977 AFC Championship Game

"tough times don't last, tough people do" - Mike "The Mastermind" Shanahan

by DesertBroncoFan on Jan 20, 2009 10:25 AM MST up reply actions   0 recs

Excellent idea

my notion of it is vague at best. I need some schooling!!

Concision in style, precision in thought, decision in life.

by Jeremy Bolander on Jan 20, 2009 2:22 PM MST up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah, Pascoe looked solid today.

He’s actually from Fresno State and he made one hell of a catch in the Shrine Game today. They said on the broadcast that he patterns his game after Jason Witten. I saw a very athletic TE today with excellent hands. That catch in traffic was outstanding.

by Danno11 on Jan 17, 2009 9:49 PM MST up reply actions   0 recs

Good to have you back HT

When I started reading this post I was instantly excited about the new DC Collier. I wondered what Nolan would be doing but didn’t much care and now, I must admit I am disapointed, anyway, I’m looking forward to a new summer season with “THE U!”

It is better to keep silent, and appear to be wise, then to ramble on and remove all doubt! The Wisest Man.

by metalman5050 on Jan 17, 2009 6:14 PM MST reply actions   0 recs

lol

I think we’ll be ok with Nolan. As the dissapointment of losing Shanny wears off, I find myself getting intrigued by what our new coaching staff can bring to the table.

"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe

by Steve Nichols on Jan 17, 2009 6:59 PM MST up reply actions   0 recs

Thanks HT

I always enjoy reading your posts and look forward to your MHR University posts this offseason.

I like the idea of switching to a 3-4 in hopes it will create pressure up front which is something we have been lacking the last several seasons. Regardlessof which way we go, we really need a solid LB (MLB if we stay 4-3). I know you stated you were fine with not drafting a RB, yet I think we do. I am all abord Hillis as we all know what he can do, it is just that I think we need a solid one. I mean a two headed monster would be nice.

Whether we go 3-4 or 4-3, I really hope we can address the run defense.

"It doesn't dissipate" ~ Mike Shanahan

Cutler's 4th qtr/OT game winning drives: 9

by weazel on Jan 17, 2009 6:33 PM MST reply actions   0 recs

There are some other good RBs that we can hold onto.

In addittion to Hillis, I think Torain is intriguing. Pittman is worth another look, and perhaps Aldrige.

"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe

by Steve Nichols on Jan 17, 2009 6:57 PM MST up reply actions   0 recs

Believe me I like Pittman and was really high on Aldrige

from what I saw in preseason. Aldrige seemed to have the speed to really make those runs around the edges. Like you and many other Bronco fans, I would love to see them comeback from their injuries.

"It doesn't dissipate" ~ Mike Shanahan

Cutler's 4th qtr/OT game winning drives: 9

by weazel on Jan 17, 2009 8:01 PM MST up reply actions   0 recs

Don't forget Bell

He showed some talent once he got back into football shape. That guy is solid and should be a back-up for sure.

I don’t want breakaway speed. I want break-some-poor-fool-as-I-bowl-you-over power getting 6 yards off a play that should have been stopped for 2 at most.

by sadaraine on Jan 18, 2009 1:42 AM MST up reply actions   0 recs

agreed. he showed up in the charger game

taste my blintzkrieg!
2009-year of the defense.

by davecheffy on Jan 20, 2009 3:03 PM MST up reply actions   0 recs

Solid Post

What do you all think about the news around Julius Peppers out of Carolina? He said on NFL Network that he wanted to sign with a 3-4 team where he can be an exceptional player versus a good player in the 4-3. If he is merely good in the 4-3 I say sign the man up and get a freak in the orange and blue…

by Orange_Crush on Jan 17, 2009 6:47 PM MST reply actions   0 recs

Interesting.

I really admire the play of Peppers, and think he’s a solid addittion for most teams. But I don’t like hi for Denver for several reasons.

1) Peppers may not realize this, but he’ll get much less glory in a 3-4. He’ll be blocking for LBs a lot more than pass rushing, and the rushing is more likely to come from the OLBs.

2) I really favor youth, given where the defense is right now.

3) I think he’ll get tagged, and not be available.

"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe

by Steve Nichols on Jan 17, 2009 6:56 PM MST up reply actions   0 recs

Yes but

peppers would not be playing the DE in the 3-4. He wants to stand up as the OLB pass rusher which he is built for. Pepper is dominate in a 4-3 but would be unstoppable in 3-4 OLB

by gnarlybroncodude on Jan 17, 2009 7:37 PM MST up reply actions   0 recs

does he know how to drop into pass coverage

a lot of people think all a stand-up DE/OLB does is rush the passer, but the position is much more complicated than that. What makes a Woodley or Harrison so difficult to block is that the offense doesn’t know if they will rush or drop into coverage. If the offense knows a player is weak in coverage they will be certain to send a receiver into his zone.

by SlowWhiteGuy on Jan 17, 2009 8:07 PM MST up reply actions   0 recs

Seeing his stat line

and not much of his live play it seems like he must be doing some zone coverage already, i.e. zone blitzes since he has had 4 int in his 7 year career. Like I said I haven’t watched him play much but I still remember his pick six against us a few years back.

"If you don't know where your going you might find yourself somplace else."

by BroncoJoe87 on Jan 17, 2009 8:36 PM MST up reply actions   0 recs

Great question

and I wonder if that’s what he wants to find out. He is an incredibly athletic man for a 287 pounder. I don’t think that question is far from his mind in wanting to “reach his full potential.”

aka MN Bronco

by pubkeeper on Jan 18, 2009 7:37 AM MST up reply actions   0 recs

I don't know if he can play the OLB position.

He would be an excellent rusher, but a team would have to evaluate him for other LB skills (such as coverage).

"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe

by Steve Nichols on Jan 18, 2009 12:49 PM MST up reply actions   0 recs

You have been missed--your posts, like many others on MHR

are like a wonderful elixir to quench our unsatiable thirst for X’s & O’s.
    I for one have learned more about the game, this last year reading your posts &
the other contributers on MHR, than over 30 yrs of Main Stream News.
GO BRONCOS

I see said the Blind man to the Deaf man who was near.
What is it you hear when I speak in your ear.

by UB3 on Jan 17, 2009 7:30 PM MST reply actions   0 recs

Great post HT....

If we are talking about a hybird, look at the options that Peppers brings.
I am excited by our coaching staff, and we look to be assembling one of the best in the NFL.
This was my hope for Shanny!
I think we will improve dramatically!

Those that cant coach, compete!
Failing to plan is planning to fail.

by boydy2669 on Jan 17, 2009 7:49 PM MST reply actions   0 recs

If we are talking about a hybird, look at the options that Peppers brings.

great point, boyd

In Goodman We Trust

by Emmett Smith on Jan 17, 2009 7:57 PM MST reply actions   0 recs

Great stuff HT

I tried to cover these points in some recent posts but you have done a much better job of it. I go back and forth on whether we ought to just bite the bullet and convert to 3-4 immediately or whether we should use a hybrid to transition.

One thought is we could use a typical 3-man front over-shifted, with a pass rushing RDE like Doom or Moss and 3LB as a transition set. What do you think about Powell/Peterson as a 2-gap tandem playing a 1/2 technique? I remember when Joe Klecko used to play an odd 1/2-technique at NYG. Seemed to give O-lines fits.

by SlowWhiteGuy on Jan 17, 2009 8:20 PM MST reply actions   0 recs

I think that a transition to 3-4...

…might include some adaptations for present personnel until the adjustment is complete. If so, your idea of a transition set (as you describe it) sounds like a solid option. I’m hoping a few new acquisitions shine well enough that we can jump ahead to a viable system right away. Several teams have switched 4-3 / 3-4 with little problem, but we have a lot of holes too.

"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe

by Steve Nichols on Jan 18, 2009 12:54 PM MST up reply actions   0 recs

Hey SWG
I tried to cover these points in some recent posts but you have done a much better job of it.

I meant to refer readers to your posts, but put in Broncoman’s name for some reason (his posts are good too, but the breakdowns by defensive line and linebacker were your work). Corrected. You did a much more detailed job than I did, and your work deserves a read.

"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe

by Steve Nichols on Jan 18, 2009 12:59 PM MST up reply actions   0 recs

Drafting players

Here’s an open question – is there any position on defense that Denver could draft that wouldn’t automatically improve the defense? I know we all have our favourite positions that we’d like addressed, I think DL has to be top, but a first round MLB or a SS or a FS or a CB would instatnly improve the team.

As for the defense improving – can it get worse? Although the Lions have hired a Defensive HC so they may not be as bad next year. In the worst case, we’re relying on the 49ers, Bengals and Browns to get worse to make the Broncos look better ;)

by mikebirty on Jan 18, 2009 1:28 AM MST reply actions   0 recs

Off the top of my head...

I don’t think a CB would help, at least not immediately. Champ is still one of the best and, while many here disagree, when he has safety help Bly is a good CB too. I think he proved that after Champ went down. Bell also showed that he is a capable backup. We can always use more depth, but with so many other problems I doubt we will be taking a CB.

D-line is also a complicated issue. There are a number of players who might help immediately in a 4-3 scheme, but would not necessarily fit well into a 3-4, if that is the direction the team is heading.

by SlowWhiteGuy on Jan 18, 2009 9:34 AM MST up reply actions   0 recs

Draft needs

If we are looking for a NT we need to get him in the first round and pick up a second one through CFA. We need to take a safety in round two and add a second on in CFA. We can pick up a center from CFA, otherwise we would need to use a second round pick which is too high for insurance. If we are looking for a DE we would need to get one in the first round and then CFA like the NT. Another TE would require a first or second round pick which is too high for someone that doesn’t project as a starter by years end. Again, mine the CFA. CFA is a good source for kicker (and punter) competion. Running backs also fall into the round one/two category. We have plenty of post round two talent.
We got Woodyard as a CFA and it would very taxing on Goodman and company to make the right choices. The bottom line is the team that executes its schemes the best will win. NE thrives on developing talent. Perhaps McDanials/Goodman can implement a similar program in Denver.

Orangeman

by corangemanr on Jan 18, 2009 3:41 PM MST reply actions   0 recs

a slightly different take

Rather than approach the problem from a scheme change template we may want to ask — what would we like to see as our new defensive philosophy?

Sometimes it’s necessary to envision the goal, which may be a nebulous, and craft solutions that help one reach that goal.

Let me explain. I see our challenge in the upcoming draft as one of finding certain attributes rather than positions. What I mean by ‘attribute’ is aggressive, pass rushing ability, or playmaking ability, etc. It’s a certain kind of player rather than a player at a certain position.

I didn’t reach this conclusion because I had macho urges that I projected upon the team, I took some time to carefully consider the type of players coming out of college and what McDaniels could have meant when he said we need a defensive philosophy. I’m not attempting to read his mind here, I’m offering my own answer to the question of what our defensive philosophy should be.

The strongest area in 2009 draft is at DE. Most of those DEs are small and specialize in pass rushing (and also do it quite well). These are the types of players we need to draft. And I also expect that these players will become the initial pieces in a 3-4, although I also think we’ll be transitioning by using a hybrid scheme.

I’ll try to elaborate on this theme in future posts, here’s a few names that are the type of player we should be adding: Rey Maualuga, Aaron Maybin, Clint Sintim.

by Colinski on Jan 18, 2009 4:20 PM MST reply actions   0 recs

Great Observation....

reminds me of something DJ said earlier this season, “What kind of defense are we?”
For over a decade the Broncos have had a consistent offensive philosophy, a relentless ball control 1-cut/ZB system coupled with a WCO. We came right at teams and wore them down.

But on defense we seem to have change philosophy with every DC (~every 2-3 years). Rather than finding DCs who fit a core philosophy we change our philosophy to fit the DC. In contrast look at the more successful franchises. Pittsburgh doesn’t look that different from what they did 10, 15, 20, or even 30 years ago. NE has a more wide open offense, but on defense they still look pretty much the way they looked 15 years ago.

We need to settle on a philosophy and fit coaches and personnel to the philosophy.

by SlowWhiteGuy on Jan 18, 2009 5:37 PM MST up reply actions   0 recs

evolution of the thought process

HT has a comment in the opening post — “More "pure athletes” are on the field.." — which describes part of the idea behind the 3-4, and it also describe the dilemma one sees when looking at this draft crop. Many of the impact players simply didn’t fit our plan, and after pondering the problem for a while I realized that the best idea was to get a new plan, and considering how much good the old plan had been doing for us lately it seemed to be unavoidable.

One of the strongest areas in the 2009 draft crop is the DE/OLB hybrid. Conventional thinking views most of the players as too big, too small or otherwise inappropriate for positions on the Broncos. And to make things worse, colleges seem to be regularly producing these kinds of athletes.

The structure of the problem therefore resembles the conundrum that results from “functional fixedness,” where, in a football sense, we can’t use many of the best players because of the limitation we’ve imposed on solutions to the problem.

I won’t pretend to have solved the defense’s problems in an ‘X and O’ sense but I believe the solution lies in putting “more pure athletes” on the field. And that would seem to involve drafting more of the physical, aggressive DE/OLB types who are abundant in college football. Fortunately, switching to the 3-4 provides us with the rationale for making those kinds of draft picks.

More on this later…………………………………………………………………

by Colinski on Jan 18, 2009 10:08 PM MST up reply actions   0 recs

As far as athletic DE/OLB's go...

would be hard to find a player that fits that bill better than Brian Cushing. His injury history is a major concern to me, and I wouldn’t even consider him at 12, but maybe a trade to move down and pickup an extra pick, and the player that would fit the new system sounds good to me.

From there, I'd like to say that the wheels came off, but that wouldn't feel like an accurate description. The wheels didn't just magically come off, the Raiders all got out of the car, shot the wheels off the own car, busted out the taillights, smashed the windshield and poured Splenda in the gas tank. Then they all piled back inside and started screaming, "CAR WON'T MOVE, ME SAD NOW!" - MJD Yahoo Sports

by donbok1 on Jan 19, 2009 3:43 PM MST up reply actions   0 recs

Aaron Maybin

His MHR profile page can be seen here.

Concision in style, precision in thought, decision in life.

by Jeremy Bolander on Jan 18, 2009 7:44 PM MST up reply actions   0 recs

it all depends...

on whether mac wants to win this season, or wants to reshape the defense for the long-term. i see too many bad fits or just bad players on this defense to run a 3-4 anytime soon. there is not only a nt problem, but any former 4-3 dt at end doesn’t inspire confidence in me. a hybrid defense filled with players of different sizes/attributes at the same position doesn’t thrill me, either. plus, we simply just need 4 players on the line of scrimmage to once again try to stop the simple run.

 if we do go to a 3-4, i would like to see a clean cut from the 4-3. players, included. but that isn’t going to help us against a schedule of smash-mouth running teams with stout defenses this coming season, and i hate to throw another year away. new coaches/schemes everywhere else compounds the problem. get 2 dt, a mlb, a safety and a real coach(we did!) and we can compete easily on d. the 3-4 just doesn’t fit our strengths, salary structure, or offense now, really. and honestly our ’backers are only good in comparison to the d-line, not other nfl units.

taste my blintzkrieg!
2009-year of the defense.

by davecheffy on Jan 20, 2009 3:40 PM MST reply actions   0 recs

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