On Nose Tackles...

by jack_ on Jan 20, 2009 2:32 PM MST

As best I can tell, there are 9 teams in the NFL that primarily ran a 3-4 defense this season: Baltimore, Pittsburgh, Dallas, San Diego, New England, New York (Jets), Miami, San Francisco, and Cleveland.

This means that there are 9 starting Nose Tackles right now: Haloti Ngata, Casey Hampton, Jay Ratliff, Jamal Williams, Vince Wilfork, Kris Jenkins, Jason Ferguson, Isaac Sopoaga, and Shaun Rogers.

Of the 9 NT's:

3 are 1st round picks (Ngata, Hampton, and Wilfork)

3 are second round picks (Wiliams, Jenkins, and Rogers)

3 are later round picks (Ferguson, Sopoaga, and Rogers).

3 have played for more than one NFL team (Rogers, Jenkins and, Ferguson) and only Jason Ferguson has played for more than one 3-4 team.

What's immediately evident in those numbers is just how hard it is to get a nose tackle. Once a 3-4 team gets a good NT, they pretty much don't give him up. Ferguson, the only NT to have played for multiple teams is 34 and Dallas gave up on him last year after he missed 15 games in the 2007 season. Otherwise, Ferguson is just like Jenkins and Rogers, a 4-3 DT who was lured away from the team that drafted him to play NT in a 3-4. NT's aren't easy to find in the draft, either- 2/3's of the NT's in the league were high picks, and among the other 3, Ferguson, as mentioned above is on his last legs, Sopoaga has not been any better than mediocre for the 49'ers (in fact the 49'ers apparently planned to move him to DE before the season), and Jay Ratliff... made the Pro Bowl this year.

Ratliff's Pro Bowl appearance may be an oversimplification, however (he plays for the Cowboys, for one), as he plays in a 1 gap Bum Phillips system designed for pass rush. A former DE himself, Ratliff is no larger (at 298) than either of the DE's who flank him and Dallas schemes to get him single blocked by Centers, which is a big part of why he got 7.5 sacks in 2008 (which is why he went to the pro bowl). My point about Ratliff is that he really isn't at all a traditional 2 gap NT who takes on multiple blockers.

So where am I going with this? Denver needs a NT. Denver REALLY needs a NT. Even if the Bronco's aren't planning on moving to a 3-4 immediately, we need a good 2 gap NT. The Bronco's have two routes to accomplish this goal: steal one from another team- and since 3-4 teams don't seem to let go of NT's, we'd have to look at 4-3 DT's who we think can play nose. Alternately, we can look for a Nose Tackle in the draft.

What this all means is that the a good NT isn't going to come cheap- if we aren't willing to either shell out good money for a Haynesworth type player, shell out draft picks in a trade (and at this point no viable player is on the trading block), or spend a high pick this year in the draft. What do y'all think?

Poll

Where should the Bronco's look for a NT?

Spend lots of money on Haynesworth

23 votes

Look elsewhere in free agency

7 votes

Use our 1st round pick

72 votes

Use our 2nd round pick

22 votes

Elsewhere

10 votes

134 votes | Poll has closed

This is a Fan-Created Comment on MileHighReport.com. The opinion here is not necessarily shared by the editorial staff of MHR

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Comments

They are almost impossible to find.

Don’t forget Kelly Gregg of the Ravens who was injured this year. 6th rounder, picked by the Bengals, released before the end of camp, picked up by Philly for a year before being send to Baltimore. He’s 33 though, so chance/benefit of luring one of them away from Baltimore.

Random quotes about the raiders:
They really shouldn’t play — Chris Collinsworth (12/5/08)
This is an utter disaster — Chris Collinsworth (12/5/08)
/The great Dane - formerly known as Claaaaas!

by Claus Vestergaard on Jan 20, 2009 3:44 PM MST reply actions

I thought New englands Vince Wilfork was bounced around the leauge his whole career ?

by broncosfaninphilly on Jan 20, 2009 3:54 PM MST reply actions

Nope

New England picked him 24th overall in 2004.
I’d also heard that Jamaal Williams went undrafted, but SD took him in the second round in the supplemental draft- which meant they sacrificed a 2nd round pick for him (which would have been the 8th pick in the 2nd round).

by jack_ on Jan 20, 2009 4:10 PM MST up reply actions

I said he was undrafted, but you are correct, I looked up a couple of sources and he was taken in the supplemental draft

"Me fail english, that unpossible" - Ralph Wiggum
"Duffman is thrusting in the direction of the problem" - Duffman

by Broncoman on Jan 20, 2009 4:26 PM MST up reply actions

You weren't the first person I'd seen that from

I suspect you were probably recalling the same quote I was…

by jack_ on Jan 20, 2009 4:39 PM MST up reply actions

If I could

I would have taken an ‘e – all of the above’ approach to the poll. I think that we need to have a willingness to try a couple of people at the position. Cole, perhaps, if we can get him. Powell, if he can make the transition. And even 2 draft picks – Without a NT we can’t play a decent 3-4. With a couple of good big men we can put a decent hybrid 4-3 out there and have stats involving blitzing, sacks and hurries while stopping the run. IMHO RB and NT are the positions that will dictate our record next year.

In Goodman We Trust

by Doc Bear on Jan 20, 2009 4:28 PM MST reply actions

In Theory, yes...

but I just don’t buy our chances of finding a GOOD NT that way. I would understand if we brought in a FA NT to help buy time for someone we draft this year, but I no longer buy Powell as anything more than a very long shot (after all he DID go in the 5th round) and I just don’t think we can load up on mediocre free agents and long shot draftees. If we don’t pick one person to put our hopes on now, I suspect this will become a long term problem- and one seriously detrimental to our ability to stop the run.

by jack_ on Jan 20, 2009 4:38 PM MST up reply actions

Could be

But keep in mind – I didn’t pin my hopes on one, becuase I haven’t seen that one. I agree – Powell is a maybe. Cole might not be mediocre – happily, Wayne Nunnely will know (heh, heh, …). We will draft one, in some round, almost certainly. If we can get a Haynesworth, great – but look at all the good posts about how hard this is and how unlikely each option is.

What I do suggest is that we get solid players who can help us in either formation. If we pin our hopes on only one, we only have one chance. Still, that’s certainly an option and I respect it.

In Goodman We Trust

by Doc Bear on Jan 20, 2009 5:25 PM MST up reply actions

Got to draft a NT

Our high-priced talent evaluators need to look at NTs and DTs. Hell, draft a couple of them, this is a critical need.

"Be not like dumb-driven cattle...."

by jcps on Jan 20, 2009 5:42 PM MST up reply actions

The point I was trying to make

is that while I’m looking at an admittedly small sample size, our chances of finding a starting calibur nose tackle past round two, or among other team’s castoffs is very low. Low enough that the strategy of spending a handful of lower draft picks or signing several free agents just isn’t likely to fill our need. The only free agent I would be confident can succeed at NT would be Haynesworth, who will be ridiculously expensive and may not play quite as well as a NT (or outside of Tennessee, for that matter).
What I’m lobbying for is that Goodman finds a NT in the draft- whether it’s Raji or someone else- that he thinks can be the answer down the road and do everything he can to ensure that the Broncos draft him NOW.

by jack_ on Jan 20, 2009 6:33 PM MST up reply actions

That is what I took away from your post

that we need to have a very deep understanding of the DT posiiton throughout the draft. I agree. there are a number of players like Scott (clemson) and Taylor (Mich.) who need to be dissected and either ruled in or ruled out. Raji is likely to go to high for his actual value, regardless of whether we get him or not, so we need to look at ALL of our draft options.

Concision in style, precision in thought, decision in life.

by Jeremy Bolander on Jan 20, 2009 8:31 PM MST up reply actions

3 are second round picks (Wiliams, Jenkins, and Rogers)

Jamal Williams was actually the second round of the supplemental draft; talk about a huge find…

"Football is a physical sport, sometimes you have a disagreement on what's going on, and you have a discussion about it." Kris Dielman

by Brian (DaBolts) on Jan 20, 2009 5:05 PM MST reply actions

Supplemental draft

The Chargers sacrificed their second round pick the next season (the 8th pick) to take Williams in the supplemental draft. I don’t question that he’s turned into a great pick, but the fact that the Chargers (who likely ended up with one of the top supplemental draft positions) felt the need to offer up their second round pick to ensure that they got him suggests that they felt at least one other team was willing to offer up a 2nd round pick for him.

by jack_ on Jan 20, 2009 6:19 PM MST up reply actions

True

But Beathard was known for squandering draft picks, that one sure payed off though. Jamal actually started his college career as a 280 pound MLB, he only (heh, only) weighed 305 coming out of the draft. Jamal is an example of a DT that developed into a NT; we were still running 4-3 back then.

"Football is a physical sport, sometimes you have a disagreement on what's going on, and you have a discussion about it." Kris Dielman

by Brian (DaBolts) on Jan 20, 2009 8:35 PM MST up reply actions

BJ, BJ, BJ, BJ, BJ!

No, I am not just chanting that because I am Horny. I want BJ RAJI. This kid is a beast and will be the next great 3-4 NT in the league. He is really impressing at the Senior bowl right now as well. I just hope he is still around by our pick. If it were me I would even trade up to get him if I needed to.

Go M's

by OBF on Jan 21, 2009 1:55 PM MST reply actions