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Robertson trade yields no pick for Jets

There's still a little confusion over the terms of the Robertson trade so I thought I'd post this:

http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_11401228

As it turns out, Robertson only played in around 50% of the plays, so the the contingency clause that stipulated our giving them a pick if he played in over 65% of the plays was never met -- not surprisingly.

There's been some continuing confusion over this on other sites (not here, of course) and I wanted to put an end to that. Early reports, whose sourcing was probably suspect, had a fairly high pick going to the Jets if contingent performance standards were met. Whether or not this information was correct, which I doubt considering the Jets were at the brink of cutting him rather than pay the bonus he was due a week after the trade here was finalized, besides the fact that he failed his physicals with all prospective trade partners, the Jets are not due any further compensation.

Denver's allotment of draft picks is currently 9, with 2 extra picks due for Colbert (Seattle, a 5th-#4, compensatory picks will inflate the overall number and placement is still uncertain) and Foxworth (Atlanta, currently their 7th but will become their 6th if he re-signs, and there's ongoing negotions and it looks likely).

 

 

This is a Fan-Created Comment on MileHighReport.com. The opinion here is not necessarily shared by the editorial staff of MHR

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by John Bena on Jan 8, 2009 12:02 PM MST reply actions   0 recs

Thanks Colinski

Now we know.

It all starts in the trenches HT 11/11/08

by firstfan on Jan 8, 2009 12:40 PM MST reply actions   0 recs

Foxworth for a 7th and Colbert for a 5th...

Something is seriously wrong with NFL trade values.

by SethGrandpa on Jan 8, 2009 12:49 PM MST reply actions   0 recs

Colbert for a 5th was unusual circumstance.

We got that because Seattle was absolutely desperate since their WR injuries were as bad or worse than or RB injuries.

by jaffe28 on Jan 8, 2009 1:02 PM MST up reply actions   0 recs

True, but losing someone like Foxworth for a 7th sucked

Especially considering if we kept him and he signed somehwere else we would hget no lower than a 5th rounder in 2010, so Atlanta may make out better even if they don’t sign him because they will get a compensation pick for him.

"Me fail english, that unpossible" - Ralph Wiggum
"Duffman is thrusting in the direction of the problem" - Duffman

by Broncoman on Jan 8, 2009 2:11 PM MST up reply actions   0 recs

Not really an option...

Once we signed him, we either had to place him on the roster or waive him. No comp picks for waived players, only FAs. Now, given the problems at safety, and the fact that Foxworth had played the position, you could question why we didn’t keep him to play safety, especially since we waived Abdullah. But, you could also question why we let Fergusson go as well. Most of our defensive roster moves over the past four years left me scratching my head.

by SlowWhiteGuy on Jan 8, 2009 4:11 PM MST up reply actions   0 recs

I was glad to see Ferguson go

He was always trying to make the big hit with his shoulder and not WRAP UP! Usually resulting in him bouncing off whomever he was trying to hit while barely deflecting the runner.

"It's all over Fat Man" - Tom Jackson to John Madden 1977 AFC Championship Game

"tough times don't last, tough people do" - Mike "The Mastermind" Shanahan

by DesertBroncoFan on Jan 8, 2009 4:38 PM MST up reply actions   0 recs

At least he attempted to hit someone

Watching Calvin Lowry flail around like a piece of toilet paper in the wind disgusted me.

"Me fail english, that unpossible" - Ralph Wiggum
"Duffman is thrusting in the direction of the problem" - Duffman

by Broncoman on Jan 8, 2009 5:30 PM MST up reply actions   0 recs

haha!

There is only One Moment—this moment—the Eternal Moment of Now

by sirsam on Jan 8, 2009 7:57 PM MST up reply actions   0 recs

Foxworth will be a 6th rnd pick once he signs w/Falcons.I think it's great!

Plus…Perhaps Dwayne Robertson’s lack of productivity was a simple function of playing time, NOT quality of play.

Im sure that was Shanahans strategy from the start. He wanted a big tackle for NO compensation. Guess what? He got it! We’re off the hook and Robertson did not miss anytime due to knee injury. Maybe we did ok in the end?

"Attitude reflects Leadership" Hogblog...aka KSM

by Hogblog on Jan 8, 2009 3:35 PM MST reply actions   0 recs

Before labeling Robertson a good trade...

it might place it in perspective to imagine what would have happened if we had just waiting for NYJ to cut him. They have a DT they woanted to trade, except he had already failed two physicals. We could have simply waited for him to be cut, then picked him up off waivers with no conditions and no compensation.

by SlowWhiteGuy on Jan 8, 2009 4:08 PM MST up reply actions   0 recs

That's assuming he passed waivers

Broncos gave up nothing for him, and he redid his contract to the Broncos satisfaction. It was a win-win move by the Broncos.

Fear is the mind killer. Fear is the little death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. When the fear has gone past, I will turn to see fear’s path. Where the fear has gone, there will be nothing. Only I will remain.

Bene Gesserit saying. (From Dune, by Frank Herbert)

by bradley on Jan 8, 2009 4:26 PM MST up reply actions   0 recs

True

The Bangles tried for him once. They may have picked him up for free.

Victor Frankl:

What man actually needs is not a tensionless state but rather the striving and struggling for some goal worthy of him. What he needs is not the discharge of tension at any cost, but the call of a potential meaning waiting to be fulfilled by him.

Everything can be taken from a man but one thing: the last of the human freedoms – to choose one’s attitude in any given set of circumstances, to choose one’s own way.

by wyoeng on Jan 8, 2009 4:49 PM MST up reply actions   0 recs

I doubt anyone would of picked him off waivers, cause then they would of been stuck with his salary

"Me fail english, that unpossible" - Ralph Wiggum
"Duffman is thrusting in the direction of the problem" - Duffman

by Broncoman on Jan 8, 2009 5:32 PM MST up reply actions   0 recs

I certainly hope not.

"Nothing in the world can take the place of Persistence. Talent will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful men with talent. Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb. Education will not; the world is full of educated derelicts. Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent. The slogan 'Press On' has solved and always will solve the problems of the human race." - Calvin Coolidge

by BroncoCanuck on Jan 8, 2009 6:07 PM MST up reply actions   0 recs

I think so

If nothing else, then as a reserve…but if we go 3-4 I bet we let him go or trade.

I don’t want breakaway speed. I want break-some-poor-fool-as-I-bowl-you-over power getting 6 yards off a play that should have been stopped for 2 at most.

by sadaraine on Jan 9, 2009 9:25 AM MST up reply actions   0 recs

Robertson a Bronco in 2009?

The one piece of information related to this is he’s due a bonus soon.

“The club also could look to re- work the contract of defensive tackle Dewayne Robertson, who’s owed a $17 million roster bonus, $10 million of which is guaranteed and can be converted to a signing bonus that is apportioned over several years.” — Rocky Mountain News, Dec. 28, 2008

by Colinski on Jan 9, 2009 9:43 AM MST up reply actions   0 recs

Would someone who knows

D Line play care to comment on Robertson’s play this year? He seemed to be doing OK from a casual fan’s perspective but I never even heard his name mentioned in the SD game. I am interested to hear from someone else.

It all starts in the trenches HT 11/11/08

by firstfan on Jan 8, 2009 6:45 PM MST up reply actions   0 recs

From what I saw, he is a keeper

He plays well when he is in there and didn’t get made to look foolish anymore than Champ did in a similar amount of playing time. I don’t think we should cut him or try to unload him at cost to us. Just let him try to keep his job in training camp vs. whoever we bring in.

My hangup with him is he doesn’t play enough. Is that because we didn’t want to lose a pick or because he really can’t play more than half the snaps ina game? If I am the new HC I make it clear to him that he needs to play as much as he can, and certainly as much as anyone else. This is the NFL, not a social services lam.

Concision in style, precision in thought, decision in life.

by Jeremy Bolander on Jan 8, 2009 7:44 PM MST up reply actions   0 recs

I'd be interested in Ted's opinion....

Concision in style, precision in thought, decision in life.

by Jeremy Bolander on Jan 8, 2009 7:44 PM MST up reply actions   0 recs

Yes, I'm no authority on DL play

Robertson appears to have been wise pickup, depending on how one calculates performance/cost. He is(was) a little more expensive (about 4 mill.) than some of the other FAs, such as Koutouvides, but he performed at an essential position. Estimations of cost-effectiveness should take into consideration the current league average for his position, since salaries have been rising. My point is that he wasn’t ‘that’ expensive.’

I, too, would like to see a scouting report on his performance this season by someone who knows the DL.

As far as his cost effectiveness, a re-working of his contract appears to be in the works, and this could make him worth keeping, if only as a quality reserve. His bargaining position is weak considering his physical problems, so I don’t expect that he’ll have many other options.

by Colinski on Jan 9, 2009 9:58 AM MST up reply actions   0 recs

It had to do with compensation

He would have and could have been out there more, but in our situation we didn’t need to either risk him or take the hit in the draft pick area.

Our defensive line wasn’t doing a bit of good anyway…why take the risk?

I don’t want breakaway speed. I want break-some-poor-fool-as-I-bowl-you-over power getting 6 yards off a play that should have been stopped for 2 at most.

by sadaraine on Jan 9, 2009 9:27 AM MST up reply actions   0 recs

The only problem with that theory

is that, if true, he shoyld have been closer to 65, which was the cutoff number. Ideally he should have been at 64.9, but factor in a little cushion and 60% would have been easy to target.

I think he played 50% of the snaps because that is all that Shanny thought he could play, and still be effective. Doesn’t mean he can’t play more, but I don’t think the draft pick was the number one onsideration, but instead was the number two consideration.

Concision in style, precision in thought, decision in life.

by Jeremy Bolander on Jan 9, 2009 4:08 PM MST up reply actions   0 recs

Robertson's % of plays

Yes, you’re correct, he could ONLY play a reduced percentage of the plays anyways because of his knee problem, and the Broncos’ rotational scheme also reduced the amount of plays.

The total amount of plays that any of the DLs are in is less than what one might expect. Dumervil managed to get be in for 70% of the snaps in 2007 only because of injuries to Ekuban and Moss, so reaching 65% was never very likely.

The Broncos use an eight-man rotation up front so it’s unlikely any defensive lineman, much less Robertson, will play two-thirds of the snaps. Elvis Dumervil was the only Broncos lineman who played 70 percent of the defensive snaps last season, but that was partly because of injuries to two other defensive ends, Ebenezer Ekuban and Jarvis Moss. — Mike Klis, Denver Post (4/25/2008)

by Colinski on Jan 9, 2009 7:30 PM MST up reply actions   0 recs

Thanks styg

It all starts in the trenches HT 11/11/08

by firstfan on Jan 9, 2009 5:20 PM MST up reply actions   0 recs

My guess is Shanhanigans

I’m guessing that Mike purposely kept him under 65% of the plays so that we wouldn’t sacrifice a draft pick for him. And, just to be sure, he kept it to 50%, so there would be no argument from the Jets.

"It's all over Fat Man" - Tom Jackson to John Madden 1977 AFC Championship Game

"tough times don't last, tough people do" - Mike "The Mastermind" Shanahan

by DesertBroncoFan on Jan 11, 2009 10:00 AM MST up reply actions   0 recs

Not happening

I don’t see him clearing waivers…the way the Broncos did it, they got him at a great price and didn’t have to give anything up or take a chance on missing out on him…really a great move on their part.

I don’t want breakaway speed. I want break-some-poor-fool-as-I-bowl-you-over power getting 6 yards off a play that should have been stopped for 2 at most.

by sadaraine on Jan 9, 2009 9:24 AM MST up reply actions   0 recs

I don't mind. We cant expect to get 8 new defensive linemen in one season and hed be excellent in a rotation where he doesnt have to start...

Well minds will keep one of our better players on the d-line….but being one of the better player on the Denver Broncos defensive line is like being the smartest retard…..

Yes, I'm a Diamondback and Suns fan. So you may be wondering, "Why does this fool like the Broncos so much?"

A: The Cardinals are too hard of a pill to swallow. Oh yeah and that Elway dude....

by Elway4Prez on Jan 8, 2009 6:10 PM MST reply actions   0 recs

Yes, but how much should we pay a rotational DT?

I think depth is the answer, but we then should have salaries that are commensurate with what is being asked of them. Teams that have superstars at positions usually rely on low paid depth, it’s just the Cap math. My point is that a player such as Robertson adds to the Cap load on a defense that could hardly be described as proficient. This leads to questions about his cost-effectiveness. We’re paying well above the league average for Robertson but his performance isn’t commensurate with his pay.

Robertson’s Cap number is $4,000,000, which places him at 20th out of 144 DTs for 2008. I don’t think anyone would place him as the 20th best DT performance-wise, however. This raises questions about ‘how much bang we’re getting for our buck."

A final point — DTs are one of the higher paid positions in the NFL, but the linked salary information shows Robertson is still well paid even considering that. I realize that this came about because of his original high draft position and a contract that was based on that, but he’s no longer performing at the level one would expect of a high 1st rounder.

by Colinski on Jan 9, 2009 11:16 AM MST up reply actions   1 recs

Glad someone understands cap implications

The problem with so many of the “obvious” fixes is just what you point out, salary cap implications. Anytime you overpay some positions, then you have to underpay other positions to offset it. As a result you either lose decent players to FA can you can pay them what they are worth, or you have to settle for less capable players. I believe Xander was brought in for this very reason.

Good Post

by SlowWhiteGuy on Jan 9, 2009 6:22 PM MST up reply actions   0 recs

Cap logic

And more than that, we’re missing the superstar performance, too. I may end up sounding a little negative here, but now that Shanahan’s gone I think I can take off the gloves, and it’s hardly news.

We made a lot of FA acquisitions that didn’t pay off. And although it may not be good reading, everyone should take a look at our salary structure.

We relied on a ‘spare part’ strategy in the 90s, which was the early days of free agency. Those FAs helped build our defense and win two SBs, but our success at using free agency ended in the late 90s. I think this was a league wide development, too, since teams appeared to hoard their defensive talent and those who were let go were overpriced, had character problems, or both, e.g., Dale Carter. I think the cap logic ‘evolved’ during this period.

The ‘spare part’ strategy continued in this, the ‘zero’ decade, although it was partly in response to failures in the draft. We also suffered more attrition, and the incoming free agent talent was balanced by players leaving through free agency. We were OK as long as we had a nucleus of players developed within our system, but that group began to age and the FAs were likewise old. The wheels began to fall off after 2005, but it really had been a gradual development, it just didn’t show up till then.

The decline of 2006 prompted the run contain scheme in 2007. That was the wrong response, since the problem was a decline in talent. The revolving door scheme changes led to bringing in talent that was later disposed of, which increased the talent attrition and created discontinuity. And that’s where we are now.

I don’t blame free agency for the Broncos’ decline but it allowed them to forestall a rebuilding until now. They were able to reload on offense over the course of the last few drafts but the defense hasn’t received the resources (except the unproductive 2007 draft), and there were no major FAs signed.

by Colinski on Jan 9, 2009 11:22 PM MST up reply actions   0 recs

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