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Do we really want a Pats assistant coach?

Success has a strange way of warping peoples views, as much as I admire the Patriots for what they have been able to accomplish, I come back to the head coach in Brian Bilichick.  I no way doubt his ability to coach, but calling him anything short of arogant, egotistical, and petty man is probably being too nice.  His assistant coaches that have gone on to become head coaches have not faired that well and many seem to carry some of the same traits that we despise in Bilicheck.  I don't know if McDaniels will follow in those footsteps, but I have a feeling that being as young as a coach that he is and having his major influence be Bilichick, it may be a bad combination to have on this team. 

It is obvious that McDaniels is a good X's and O's coach, but that really was not the issue with Shanahan and in all seriousness, Bowlen did not fire Shanahan because of X' and O's.  What we don't know is can he inspire and lead the team, can he build an sense of unitity and purpose, can he gain the trust of the team.  Bilichick's first stint as a NFL coach was a dismil failure in Cleveland, he aleinated star players, built mistrust in the fans and media, and fractured the team.  Bilichick's next success has largey been due to a fluke in that Drew Bledsoe got injured and Tom Brady got to play, few if anyone realized what a QB Brady would turn into, even those on the Pats staff.  Remember that there was great debate before the Super Bowl against the Rams weather Brady or Bledsoe should start, so it was still not a clear cut choice.  But Bilichick played the hot hand and let Brady start and the rest was history. 

But through the Patriots success, Bilichick has never found a way to elevate his own perception in the media as anything more than an egotistical and bitter coach.  This is a team that got busted for cheating and Bilichick's answer was he didn't think it was, this is a coach who showed no class by running off the field before the game was over in the Super Bowl when they lost, this is a man who has general disdain for the media and his fellow coaches.  I don't know is McDaniels is the same type of coach, but if Bilichick is his mentor, I am guessing that they have the same character types.  And like the Browns, Jets, and Irish have found out, just because you hire a Pats Assistant coach does not mean you will have success.       

This is a Fan-Created Comment on MileHighReport.com. The opinion here is not necessarily shared by the editorial staff of MHR

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Belichick...

What alot of people forget about Billy Boy is he had the Browns going in the right direction UNTIL Art Modell announced he was moving the team. In 1994, the Browns went 11-5 and beat Parcells’ Patriots in the playoffs.

It is true that Belichick wasn’t a media darling, and he did run Bernie Kosar out of town, but it is eerily similar to what he did to a NE QB hero – Drew Bledsoe.

I get what the point is here, and part of me agrees heavily since Belichick’s disciples have been failures as Head Coaches — Mangini, Weis, Crennel.

-TSG

SBNation's Denver Broncos Blogger
MileHighReport

Questions, Comments...E-Mail Me!
milehighreport@gmail.com

by John Bena on Jan 9, 2009 11:37 AM MST reply actions   0 recs

Big difference is that he didn't have Brady backing up Kosar in Cleveland

What I will give Bilicheck credit for is that he helped build the Super Bowl defense that won Baltimore it’s Super Bowl, but you are right on Modell didn’t help matter by deciding to move the team to Baltimore.

"Me fail english, that unpossible" - Ralph Wiggum
"Duffman is thrusting in the direction of the problem" - Duffman

by Broncoman on Jan 9, 2009 11:47 AM MST up reply actions   0 recs

True...

It was Vinnie Testaverde, who, at the same point in his career as Brady that season, would had to have been considered a better option.

Hell, Billy was right about Kosar and the infamous “diminished skills” – Kosar never was a starting QB again. add to that the fact Bernie was ignoring playcalls and drawing plays up in the Municipal Stadium dirt and you get the reasons why Billy made the choice…

-TSG

SBNation's Denver Broncos Blogger
MileHighReport

Questions, Comments...E-Mail Me!
milehighreport@gmail.com

by John Bena on Jan 9, 2009 12:11 PM MST up reply actions   0 recs

Plus

Vinnie ended up playing 21 seasons and led the NYJ into Denver for the 1998 AFC title game, and who was his D-coord? BB

somethings wrong, Trying to conquer these fears i thought were gone. And it's been so long, I'm dying to live in a world i don't belong

by broncfanstuckinsd on Jan 10, 2009 1:31 PM MST up reply actions   0 recs

The answer is "we don't know."

Watching the hiring process as an outsider is frustrating. Maybe McDaniels was tough as nails in the interviews. Maybe he cried. We don’t know, so all we can do is guess.

I agree that Pats assistants aren’t automatically successful. But does that mean we wouldn’t want Spags or young Shanny or Tony Dungy if they were employed by the pats? You could just as easily say that most coaching hires are failures. And these were failures. Bonus points for pointing out that the Jets, Browns and Notre Dame are all severely dysfunctional organizations.

About Belichick being a jerk…. The one thing I know is that the dude’s players seem loyal. I’ll never forget the way those 2003-2004 teams played with chips on their shoulder, even though they were so obviously better than anyone else.

by Chibronx on Jan 9, 2009 11:56 AM MST reply actions   0 recs

I guess...

that I have more faith on Mr. Bowlin than you do. By now it seems obvious that disfunction on the team is what cost Shanny his job, disfunctional coaching staff, disfunctional front office. I think if PB detects signs of arrogance or disfunction he will eliminate those candidates. I think he wants a team of demons on the field that plays nice in the locker room and HQ.

by SlowWhiteGuy on Jan 9, 2009 12:03 PM MST reply actions   0 recs

My problem with McDaniels

Is that I’ve not heard rave reviews about his personality. True, Big Old Bill has no personality either so it may not be a problem, but still…

I hear people rave about Spags’ and Morris’ fire and intensity which is a contagious quality, especially when you’re a Head Coach. And I for one feel that there was slightly less fire around Dove Valley in recent times which has led to some rather flat performances. At the moment this team is still in flux, especially on D and it needs to bond. And I think a more fiery coach will bring this team together better at least in the short term than in the long term. Whenever I watch the Pats, they always seem so clincal – it’s great if you have all the pieces in place and what have you, but we simply don’t at this point.

by Muse_Cubed on Jan 9, 2009 12:23 PM MST reply actions   0 recs

That's the big question...

People who know and are close to Bill will say he is a great guy with a wonderful sense of humor, etc. His players say the same thing. Like most, I could give a damn if the new HC talks to the press or smiles for cameras. Can he lead and motivate grown men? Does he know how to delegate responsibility? Does he know football, both sides of the ball?

Save the manner school….

-TSG

SBNation's Denver Broncos Blogger
MileHighReport

Questions, Comments...E-Mail Me!
milehighreport@gmail.com

by John Bena on Jan 9, 2009 12:29 PM MST up reply actions   0 recs

Agreed Johnny B (Guru) 100%!!!

Those that cant coach, compete!
Failing to plan is planning to fail.

by boydy2669 on Jan 9, 2009 4:47 PM MST up reply actions   0 recs

You got a solid point right there.

"It doesn't dissipate" ~ Mike Shanahan

Cutler's 4th qtr/OT game winning drives: 9

by weazel on Jan 9, 2009 6:26 PM MST up reply actions   0 recs

I dont care

If talks to the press and is all lovey dovey with them. I care about what is done behind closed doors. Here in SD there has been interviews with Seau and he loves Belichick. I like the fact that BB is so monotone with the media, he has success. Now I dont think McDaniels is in the same vein as Mangini, Weis and Crennel. (IMO Mangini was fired to appease Favre nothing more or less)

somethings wrong, Trying to conquer these fears i thought were gone. And it's been so long, I'm dying to live in a world i don't belong

by broncfanstuckinsd on Jan 10, 2009 1:34 PM MST up reply actions   0 recs

Who knows???

Regardless of who we hire as a coach, we will not know if they can inspire and/or motivate and/or lead and/or etc. until we see the results on the field. Bill Cowher is the only one we could hire and we would absolutely know he inspires and all that stuff. I think that’s why he is so sought after. I’m not saying I want him or don’t want him. I’m just saying he is the only one out there where you know we would at the very least get inspired, motivated players from day one. Everyone else will be a wait and see approach.

Col. Sandurz: Prepare ship for light speed!
Dark Helmet: No, no, no, light speed is too slow!
Col. Sandurz: Light speed, too slow?!
Dark Helmet: Yes, we're gonna have to go right to . . . ludicrous speed!
Col. Sandurz: Ludicrous speed?! Sir, we've never gone that fast before. I don't know if the ship can take it.
Dark Helmet: What's the matter Colonel Sandurz? Chicken?

by orangeblood on Jan 9, 2009 1:06 PM MST reply actions   0 recs

AGree with your comment

But SHanny’s a better coach than Cowher. I’d still take him 10 out of 10 times over Cowher. We need to put our faith in a coach that we think can be the BEST coach in the NFL.

by super7 on Jan 9, 2009 1:20 PM MST up reply actions   0 recs

Impressive, most impressive

"Me fail english, that unpossible" - Ralph Wiggum
"Duffman is thrusting in the direction of the problem" - Duffman

by Broncoman on Jan 9, 2009 2:23 PM MST up reply actions   0 recs

Makes two of us

"Me fail english, that unpossible" - Ralph Wiggum
"Duffman is thrusting in the direction of the problem" - Duffman

by Broncoman on Jan 9, 2009 2:41 PM MST up reply actions   0 recs

REC'D SUPER!!!!

Those that cant coach, compete!
Failing to plan is planning to fail.

by boydy2669 on Jan 9, 2009 4:48 PM MST up reply actions   0 recs

Well I

Like to put gailey and Shanny under the Reeves coaching tree. (i am a HOMER)
Excellent post

somethings wrong, Trying to conquer these fears i thought were gone. And it's been so long, I'm dying to live in a world i don't belong

by broncfanstuckinsd on Jan 10, 2009 1:37 PM MST up reply actions   0 recs

A NOTE ABOUT THE INFO ABOVE

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/e/ee/Coaching_Trees.GIF

That link nails the coaching trees, way better than the info in my original post.

My point is that not ALL guys from one branch of the tree are awful or great.

by super7 on Jan 9, 2009 1:19 PM MST reply actions   0 recs

You know, I have listened & read

many inspiring articles & thoughts on who we should pick to replace shanny. I am not one that knows the X’s & O"s, like many of you. In fact I am new here at MHR, at least
in expressing my opinions. ( learker for over a year ) But I have bled orange and blue for longer than most.
  My question, In our quest for the best Head Coach, should be the same as the players should it not? Loyality above all else. Why must we search the whole NFL, for the qualities we have in our own back yard. Yes thats right, Rick Dennison has all of those
qualities——-and——-loyality to boot. From what I here he’s pretty smart too. I don’t have the stats, but when he ran ST—he was pretty good, What he’s done for the line is phenomenal, and he was a pretty good DB.
   So in my humble opinion, I just hope Mr. B. has a hard look in our own back yard.

  Go Broncos

I see said the Blind man to the Deaf man who was near.
What is it you hear when I speak in your ear.

by UB3 on Jan 9, 2009 1:52 PM MST reply actions   0 recs

Not opposed to that, and maybe that is the best option

I still like Troy Calhoun also as a local that is familar with the organization and can be a great leader and inspire.

"Me fail english, that unpossible" - Ralph Wiggum
"Duffman is thrusting in the direction of the problem" - Duffman

by Broncoman on Jan 9, 2009 2:29 PM MST up reply actions   0 recs

Thanx Broncoman

I was beginning to think I was being ignored

I see said the Blind man to the Deaf man who was near.
What is it you hear when I speak in your ear.

by UB3 on Jan 9, 2009 2:39 PM MST up reply actions   0 recs

I do like

the idea of Dennison. I just don’t see Bowlen firing Shanahan to “go in a different direction,” and then hiring someone from the Shanahan staff. For those of us who weren’t sure firing Shanahan was a prudent move, I say root for Dennison’s Denizens.

-Harvey J. Neptune

"Practice doesn't make perfect. PERFECT practice makes perfect." - Vince Lombardi

by HarvJNep2n on Jan 11, 2009 4:59 PM MST up reply actions   0 recs

Obviously put together by someone with an agenda

Just because a coach happened at some point in their career to have worked for another does not mean that’s where they learned their craft.

Shanahan learned to coach in the pros under Dan Reeves (which would put him in a Landry Tree). He was already and established OC when he went to work for George Seifert. Technically he never coached WITH Walsh. Wade Phillips was an established DC and HC long before he ever worked with Marty. He too learned under Reeves and from his father (mostly from his father I think). Tony Dungy was an established defensive coordinator under Chuck Knoll and shows no influence from Shottenheimer. Dungy’s major influence obviously was Noll’s cover-2 defense which he and Monte Kiffin adapted to the modern Tampa-2.

by SlowWhiteGuy on Jan 9, 2009 1:55 PM MST reply actions   0 recs

How could you say I have an aggenda ;)

"Me fail english, that unpossible" - Ralph Wiggum
"Duffman is thrusting in the direction of the problem" - Duffman

by Broncoman on Jan 9, 2009 2:42 PM MST up reply actions   0 recs

Good points

Not to be a nebbish, but I think that the reason Shanahan gets placed with Walsh is that he took the WCO style from Walsh and made it his own. I would agree that lots of these men learned what they could from each other and founded their own styles to the best of their abilities. Great analysis, both.

In Goodman We Trust

by Emmett Smith on Jan 9, 2009 2:43 PM MST up reply actions   0 recs

Technically

Walsh took it from Sid Gilman and Don Coryeal, but he lost his QB and had to adjust it from a vertical attack to a horiz attack because he had a noodle armed backup. As they say, the rest is history.

Shanny took a Lombardi/Gibbs approach and grafted a Walsh style passing attack to it and created his own system.

by SlowWhiteGuy on Jan 9, 2009 6:58 PM MST up reply actions   0 recs

if you want to get even more technical

Walsh learned from one of the best offensive minds to ever coach football. Paul Brown. So based all of this shouldnt Walsh’s tree actually be the Paul Brown tree?

somethings wrong, Trying to conquer these fears i thought were gone. And it's been so long, I'm dying to live in a world i don't belong

by broncfanstuckinsd on Jan 10, 2009 1:39 PM MST up reply actions   0 recs

If you want to talk about a Paul Brown tree

you would have to include almost everyone:
Walsh, Gillman, Noll, Shula, Wyche, Saban…

The only ones that weren’t would be Lombardi and Landry

by SlowWhiteGuy on Jan 10, 2009 2:03 PM MST up reply actions   0 recs

thats why

I dont like the term coaching trees. I think unless a guy was an assistant solely under one guy then you could say he was under that tree. Like Landry had Reeves and Ditka under him and noone else. Not too mention Ditka ended his career in Dallas and Reeves played and coached (As an assistant) under Landry and only Landry.

somethings wrong, Trying to conquer these fears i thought were gone. And it's been so long, I'm dying to live in a world i don't belong

by broncfanstuckinsd on Jan 10, 2009 2:12 PM MST up reply actions   0 recs

EIther way...

The point is that it shouldn’t matter.

Just because a coach learned their craft from another coach doesn’t mean that they will coach like that original coach or any othe the other coaches who have learned from the original coach.

by super7 on Jan 9, 2009 2:03 PM MST reply actions   0 recs

True

I just go to the history of Magini, Crennel, and Weiss, none have been that impressive, I just look at young 32 year old, offensive wiz kid, and then I say, well we already have that in Bates, supposedly, so why bring in someone like McDaniels that may fracture the team more because he wants it his way. I really think it point to either Cowher or someone like Spags, someone older that has some more experience under his belt and maybe has coached with different organizations. I wouldn’t be opposed to Haslett either, I thought he did a good job in New Orleans, but Katrina wrecked his job.

"Me fail english, that unpossible" - Ralph Wiggum
"Duffman is thrusting in the direction of the problem" - Duffman

by Broncoman on Jan 9, 2009 2:27 PM MST up reply actions   0 recs

Bill Belichick

Belichick brought three Super Bowl titles to new England in a short amount of time. Regardless of his behavior with the media, one can’t argue with success. I trust the interview committee to look at the stregnths and weaknesses of every coach and the team and so if they feel McDaniels is the best, he must have presented intelligent ideas on defense as well.

McDaniels is young, but I was an assistant wrestling coach when I was 31 and I got hired by a head coach who was only 24. At first, I was skeptical due to his age. But once I started working with him I realized that he had “it” and he knew his stuff. He ran his program the rigth way and deserved to be the coach, even at his young age. McDaniels will prove right away whether he is ready or not when he is there with the veterans. They will either buy-in or not and age is not necessarily a factor.

by BroncoJeff on Jan 9, 2009 3:31 PM MST reply actions   0 recs

Parcels has also...

Never been nearly as successful since he and Belichick parted ways.

by SlowWhiteGuy on Jan 9, 2009 3:39 PM MST up reply actions   0 recs

Jeff for president

You nailed it.

I’d rather take a shot on a guy who COULD BE a coaching star in the NFL than Cowher, who’s best moment was a lucky Super Bowl berth and win over an awful opponent with a lucky draft pick in Big Ben.

I just think Cowher’s totally overrated.

I always felt comfort knowing that nobody in the league could out X&O Shanny on offense and that he has the knowledge to always have a little edge on every team we played. I feel like McDaniels has that. He can out scheme and out-mis match anyone else out there and he can do it while knowing what it takes to have a championship caliber organization. I like Spags too, but I think McDaniels has MUCH better upside than anyone out there including, Cowher and Spags.

Now McDaniels will have to prove that he has thr organizational and leadership skills that Bellichek has, and that’s the hard part, but any other coach would have to prove that to me too.

Why should he be held to a different standard because his resume includes Pats assitant and an age of 32.

by super7 on Jan 9, 2009 3:58 PM MST up reply actions   0 recs

Jeff

Since you were / are a Wrestling Coach – Can you teach the Broncos how to stretch before a game to decrease the injuries?

Victor Frankl:

What man actually needs is not a tensionless state but rather the striving and struggling for some goal worthy of him. What he needs is not the discharge of tension at any cost, but the call of a potential meaning waiting to be fulfilled by him.

Everything can be taken from a man but one thing: the last of the human freedoms – to choose one’s attitude in any given set of circumstances, to choose one’s own way.

by wyoeng on Jan 9, 2009 4:24 PM MST up reply actions   0 recs

I am not willing

to trade the identity of the broncos (which I guess is up for debate depending on your own personal fan perception of the team) for a super bowl. I do not want to win a super bowl if it requires giving in to classless play, in the vein of the Raiders, the “money for talent regardless of teamwork” Jerry Jones Cowboys, or the Cheatergate Patriots. I am a Broncos fan because of the class of players and coaches we keep, and the class of Pat Bowlen. That press conference covering Shanahan’s firing said it all to me. This is a CLASSY organization. Have we had classless people on the team in the past? Sure (ahem Romo aham) but I am not willing to sell out a proud tradition of sprotsmanship for a Lombardi trophy.

But your point about the age of the coach or the influence of one particular coach over another is well-taken. The NFL is less a coaching “Tree” than a coaching web. Each man makes his own destiny. A coach may take things he likes from others, but the style is up to the individual, not his mentor, especially since every person has MULTIPLE mentors. You won’t find a carbon-copy coach in the NFL, or a carbon copy leader anywhere. Good leaders draw upon their strengths and look to the best influences to fill in their weaknesses, thus becoming a stronger individual because of a diverse background.

-Harvey J. Neptune

"Practice doesn't make perfect. PERFECT practice makes perfect." - Vince Lombardi

by HarvJNep2n on Jan 11, 2009 5:12 PM MST up reply actions   0 recs

NO, i don't want a Pats assistant coach

Shanny owned NE, why would we all the sudden want one of their newest, youngest, pup!

Shanny your EGO is killing me here, why couldn’t you just say sorry Pat, I will be your head coach, go hire a GM…I am sorry, I suck at personel, sorry! Then we are all happy.

Was it hard? "It hurts. But tough times don’t last — tough people do. That’s life." - Mike Shanahan

by Steve O' on Jan 10, 2009 11:18 AM MST reply actions   0 recs

How many times do you think McDaniels called in a play and Bellicheck said...no uhuh we aren't running that and changed the play?

I wonder if that question was asked in the interview?

Was it hard? "It hurts. But tough times don’t last — tough people do. That’s life." - Mike Shanahan

by Steve O' on Jan 10, 2009 7:57 PM MST up reply actions   0 recs

That score

has less to do with McDaniels’ genius than with Slowik’s lack thereof. We made almost ANY OC look fantastic this season because of our dismal defensive coaching. You can find other examples, but please don’t use the Broncos 2008 defense to pad an offensive coordinator’s stats.

-Harvey J. Neptune

"Practice doesn't make perfect. PERFECT practice makes perfect." - Vince Lombardi

by HarvJNep2n on Jan 11, 2009 5:16 PM MST up reply actions   0 recs

Probably was....wish Shanny had of asked that of Bates a bit more in games against Buffalo and Oakland!

I like that McDanniels has experience on D side too….who knows who we will get but I would love McDanneils and Capers, or even better, Morris as Asst HC and DC, with Dennison as Co OC with Bates.
Getting close my friend, and we need a decison soon as we need to start deisgning our team again!

Those that cant coach, compete!
Failing to plan is planning to fail.

by boydy2669 on Jan 10, 2009 8:07 PM MST reply actions   0 recs

Boydy...

you should call Bowlen. I like the way you think!

-Harvey J. Neptune

"Practice doesn't make perfect. PERFECT practice makes perfect." - Vince Lombardi

by HarvJNep2n on Jan 11, 2009 5:16 PM MST reply actions   0 recs

Thanks man....

Now the giants are done even more intrigue!

Those that cant coach, compete!
Failing to plan is planning to fail.

by boydy2669 on Jan 11, 2009 7:30 PM MST up reply actions   0 recs

Broncoman

Looks like you didn’t get your wish.

Time to change the avatar….

"It's all over Fat Man" - Tom Jackson to John Madden 1977 AFC Championship Game

"tough times don't last, tough people do" - Mike "The Mastermind" Shanahan

by DesertBroncoFan on Jan 12, 2009 11:32 AM MST reply actions   0 recs

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