The revisit..
by HorseStance on Oct 14, 2009 8:41 AM MDT
10 comments
I know most of you don't really care to read let alone think about the enigma that was Jay Cutler any more.. but honestly I think we should thank him. :-O
Sound a little crazy? Make up your own mind..
Jay provided us with 2 first round picks who in my opinion turned out to be Knowshon Moreno and Alphonso Smith.. and a 3rd round pick.. which is a little more complicated but is basically Richard Quinn. Now you can argue the Moreno one but it is either him or Ayers and i honestly don't think they would have gone for Moreno without having 2 first round picks.. either way they are both turning out well so far.
Ayers is learning.. he is seeing more time on the field now.. which is a good sign. He has made some pretty good plays in the running game.. stopping the runner in the backfield more than once. He has also been very influential on a couple of our sacks because of the pressure he was putting on the QB which drove the QB right into the arms of DOOM! (The arms of DOOM - doesn't that sound good! lol)
Everyone can see that Moreno is going to be special - and is a 3 down back.. which if i recall was the only slur on him oh and his speed.. which is an overrated quality anyway.. his game speed is amazing.. the cuts.. his vision.. his adjustments.. we have yet to see if he has break away speed but I'm sure he will do fine. He was also voted rookie of the week last week and is up for it again this week.. don't forget to vote!
The Phonz was doing great before he tweaked his ankle.. and JMFW has taken over and is playing very well so phonzy will probably get a chance to rest a while longer but he looked just as good as advertised when he was playing in the first couple of games. Also consider that JMFW probably hasn't just magically learned how to play.. he probably has been that good all along and for phonzy to have beaten him in camp for the nickel corner spot, IMO, says a lot about the abilities of Smith.
Quinn made one mistake last game.. but seriously the dude is learning behind Graham and Scheff.. he has a lot of natural talent and i think he is going to an elite TE in our future.. So far when he has been needed in the running game he has done what he was supposed to do!
Ok so we have all those impressive rookies just because of Jay.. but wait there is more!
Jay also gave us a player who was has just been named AFC Offensive player of the week!
The quarterback was recognized by the NFL after completing 35-of-48 (72.9%) passes for 330 yards with two touchdowns and one interception (Hail Mary pass attempt) for a 96.7 rating in Denver's 20-17 overtime win against New England on Sunday. He led two touchdown drives of at least 10 plays and 90 yards against the Patriots, including a 12-play, 98-yard drive late in the fourth quarter that tied the game and eventually forced overtime.
That player is the QB.. KYLE ORTON!
This season Kyle has completed 104 of 165 passing attempts that is a 63 completion percentage. 7 TD's to 1 INT.. which should not really count anyway.. A total of 1,236 yards and a passer rating of 97.4% which puts him .5 behind Matt Shaub who is in third place so far in the AFC pro bowl consideration.. (See OrangeKnuckleDragger's good break down of how Orton is in the hunt for pro bowl honours this year!)
Watch Kyle in action again from this week...
NFL - Broncos playbook analysis of Orton
Just imagine Kyle did make the pro bowl this year and some team would make a trade for him with a similar value to what what got for Jay, Brandstater would start next year and Josh would make him a star then a team would trade for him for 2 first rounders and 2 good players and a box of chocolates..
Ok just kidding I like Kyle as our QB but it kind of puts it in perspective, the term pro bowl QB allowed us to improve our talent stock a lot!
This last video Fex Ex Air and Groud player of the week is what prompted me to write this.. Marshall Faulk.. who always manges to annoy me what ever he is talking about.. Says near the end that he won't say that Josh letting go of Jay was a smart move..
To answer that this quote from the Steve Wyche report is important.
Bowlen singled out the way McDaniels singularly absorbed the criticism for trading Pro Bowl QB Jay Cutler to the Bears in exchange for Kyle Orton and draft picks, although it was an organizational decision.
So firstly it was not all on Josh. Secondly, we did not just do a swap for Kyle Orton although that swap wouldn't be looking to bad if we knew how well Orton was going to fit in here.. Thirdly, Josh did know how well Orton was going to fit in here. Fourthly, we have greatly increased our depth in key areas with talented rookies, who right now seem to be turning out very well.
I would say that it is looking like a very, very smart move..
Getting rid of a player who notoriously doesn't like criticism, didn't want to change QB coach or Offensive coordinator.. because he liked the style of play he has and would not have done well with Josh's teaching style.. Was a bit to much of a me first type to fit into our new locker room and often as i stated at the begining was an enigma.. he would be great one day flat the next.. /threw almost as many TDs as INTs and generally wouldn't learn from his mistakes.
For a player who is the total opposite, accepts criticism, wants to learn and improve, is consistent, doesn't turn the ball over much and plays for the team. Add to that the crew of rookies that will help to make this franchise great from the next few years and i would say it was a very smart move indeed.. not just on the behalf of Josh but also, as Bowlen says, the whole organisation who made the decision together.
To finish off this is probably not the first revisit to this subject you have seen and it definetly won't be the last but i think it is improtant for us Bronco fans to realise the total value that Jay gave us and how much he has improved our football team by not being on it any more.. and for that i would like to say.. Thank You!
This is a Fan-Created Comment on MileHighReport.com. The opinion here is not necessarily shared by the editorial staff of MHR
0 recs |
10 comments
Email
Print
Comments
I'm not sure how to vote.
I think the trade was a good one, but I’m factoring in the picks too. Orton is a better QB, but Jay has more potential.
If by
"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe
by Steve Nichols on Oct 14, 2009 8:53 AM MDT reply actions 0 recs
Oops, cut off.
If by “straight up” you mean without the picks, I don’t know if I would or not. It is a close call. If by “straight up” you mean “be honest”, yes, I would still think the trade was a good one.
"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe
by Steve Nichols on Oct 14, 2009 8:55 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
I mean without the picks..
.. i’m not sure if i would given those criteria myself but i thought it was an interesting question considering how well Kyle is doing so far..
by HorseStance on Oct 14, 2009 9:01 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Really..
.. No one wants to talk about this any more?
Ok fare enough.. i thought it was worth taking a look back at due to how our team is progressing (5-0) because the actual value we got from that trade has helped us be where we are today..
Guess I must be by myself on this one then..
by HorseStance on Oct 14, 2009 4:06 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
If it were 2 trades...
Forget about what you know now. Look back at when Cutler was forcing the trade. Josh needs to have his qb learn his new system asap. If he waited out Cutler, he would have wasted the season. So he had to do a deal.
Instead of looking at this as a Cutler for Orton + trade, look at it as 2 trades. Did Denver get good value in these 2 trades?
1. Cutler for 2 first rounders and a 3rd rounder. Cutler was a 1st rounder. So Denver gets an additional 1st rounder plus a 3rd rounder. Looks pretty fair to me.
2. A 5th rounder for Orton. This one was a low risk deal for Denver.
If the Broncos presented it as 2 separate trades, they would have avoided the Cutler for Orton link. I doubt da’ Bears fans would have been pleased with the 2 trades.
by Allan Loomis on Oct 15, 2009 4:59 PM MDT reply actions 1 recs
I agree,
Josh didn’t have time to wait to get a guy might have dragged his feet while learning and not been comfortable with learning new things or even just taking criticism (something that josh has a lot of for his QB’s) He was brought here to win now and Jay wasn’t necessarily going to help him do that.
I also agree that it isn’t really fair to compare Jay and Orton, but the comparison has been made and will continue to be made for most of this season. I guess what i was trying to point at was that Kyle Orton is playing well above what was expecting of him (by Chicago) and if they knew he was going to play this well they would have wanted more value for him?
Right now i don’t see any problems with having Orton as our starting QB, he is moving the ball efficiently, getting it to where it needs to be, making good reads, leader the Offense well and generally looking like a good QB. Cutler has looked ok most of the time but also made some nice throws, in Chicago he is not being asked to carry the team and that is helping him. But really i don’t see a huge amount of difference between the two in terms of their ability to help a team win.. so why was Jay worth a 2 first and a 3rd where as Kyle only worth a 5th? IMO Kyles winning record speaks for itself. Jay’s value was that much because of potential? What is because of his pro bowl status? Regardless we came away with a nice bounty from the trade and i just wanted to celebrate that a little.. know what i mean?
by HorseStance on Oct 16, 2009 3:50 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well the point for me is the trade
is now in the fading past. I love the pieces we now have in place in Moreno, Ayers, Orton, Smith and Quinn. So I wouldn’t be or wouldn’t have been for a straight up trade; Orton for Cutler. I like the way Xanders and McDaniels played this one out. But, you see that pattern throughout the team in many of the deals they did. One team thinks they have an inadequate player, they like what we have, so we trade for value and end up getting an under used player with talent and a pick or two. Sweet deals I think.
by bchiper on Oct 16, 2009 8:51 AM MDT reply actions 0 recs
Again i agree,
The poll wasn’t really the point of this post.. even though most have taken it to be, voted and not replied.
I’m not really thinking about a straight up trade for Kyle, the way you put it is perfect, they thought Kyle was not good enough and thought that Jay could be better for them.. Right now IMO Kyle is playing as well if not better than Jay.. they are both learning new systems and adjusting to new receivers.. their stat’s are comparable right now but in my mind INT free football is the winner every time. To me it looks like we got an under rated player and draft picks for an over rated player.. and in that regard i think that the pro bowl is largely responsible from Jay being over rated.. I mean who would trade a Pro Bowl QB right? The Titans, for example, benched their Pro Bowl QB for someone slightly more mature.. in mind and body!
I also agree that it is in the past, but I also think it is relevant.. the way the media built up Jay as a player was a direct influence on his value.. As the media often do they neglect some of the key facts or more ‘unsexy’ things that a player does and just focus on what suits there agenda.
That fact is often written about on this site as a negative thing.. In this case I think it was a positive because it greatly increased one players value and led to us getting a big bounty in return for him.
To be honest i am not really concerned with Jay any more, he is in this teams past, but the repercussions of that trade will be affecting this team for a long time so I’m not really sure why it is not PC to discuss them any more??
by HorseStance on Oct 16, 2009 11:03 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
HS very well said.
I for one don’t mind talking about it myself as long as it is something constructive. I think all to often it has bordered on not being constructive. Right now though Cutler and Orton are where they can best succeed IMO. Yup that’s right I think Cutler is a good fit in Chicago, just as Orton is a good fit for Denver. I love Cutlers physical ability, but that alone wouldn’t work in McDaniel’s offense. That ability does fit into Chicago’s though. Same for Orton being a great fit in the Denver offense.
Real quick here’s my take on the media in general (there are exceptions). The media is mostly driven by the Fantasy world, which is all statiscal performance driven the rest is akin to Entertainment Tonight, who did what to whom and when. There are a few great media people, but only a few IMO.
by bchiper on Oct 16, 2009 1:12 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Recommended FanPosts
Recent FanPosts
Getting Social With MHR
Next Game
Web Stuff
Certain photos copyright © 2009 by Associated Press or Getty Images. Any commercial use or distribution without the express written consent of Associated Press and Getty Images is strictly prohibited.
