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MHR Chalk Talk - Denver Broncos at San Diego Chargers (Week 6, '09)

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First, Denver beat the Bengals.  Turns out that the Bengals are a pretty good team.  Then Denver beat the Browns; no big whoop.  Then the Broncos beat the Raiders.  Not many of the Raider Nation even bothered to show up for it.  Several folks in the media said the Cowboys would put the Broncos in their place.  As soon as the Broncos won, those media heads started questioning the Cowboys.  Now the hard part of the schedule starts, and the Patriots show up.  Yes; Denver bopped their way past the Pats, and folks questioned just how good Brady really is.

Forget about it!  Denver is for real, and "proving ourselves" was never the goal.  The goal is the AFC West and a playoff berth.  The Raiders know more about figure skating than football, and the Chiefs look like they just sold Manhattan for a few beads.  That leaves the SD Chargers as the only threat to the Broncos and the playoffs, and this isn't the same team they were last year.

LaDainian Tomlinson at RB?  How about the 32nd ranked running game in the NFL.  ROLB Shawne Merriman?  May never be the same player again after the knee injury.  Missing the offensive center and the defense's nose tackle to injury?  Priceless.

SD hasn't looked this shaken since the last earthquake.  Piece of cake?  No, not really.  SD is at home on a Monday night, they still have Phillip Rivers, Chris Chambers, Antonio Gates, and Vincent Jackson.  They are also coming off of a much needed bye week, which means rest for injuries and more time to game plan.  This is not a game to get too comfortable with.

Star-divide

The SD Offense versus the DEN Defense

What happens when you take the worst running team in the NFL (SD avg per game - 53.8 yards) and match it with the 6th best running defense in the League?

SD has spent years relying on Tomlinson to carry the ball.  Heck, the guy can run, catch, throw and block.  He's the all-around, real deal of RBs.  But this year, nursing a hurt ankle at age 30, Tomlinson is on track for his worst year ever.  1 TD, 1 fumble (lost), 3.5 yards per carry (his longest was only 13), 2 receptions (for a total of 1 yard), and a grand 70 yards to show for the season.

Here is what you need to know about the SD offense.

  1. The running game is bad.  Real bad.
  2. The passing game is good.  Real good.  (295.5 yards per game - 2nd in the NFL).
  3. Rivers likes to throw deep.
  4. To throw deep, he needs time to let the receivers get deep.
  5. Denver's pass rush is monstrously good.
  6. SD's offensive line (from center to left tackle) isn't so hot.
  7. SD's running game isn't going to do much to keep Denver's safeties from the deep field.

What all of this means is that the Chargers have two choices in this game.  First, they have to establish a running game.  This seems highly unlikely, as the match-up is just too hard to overcome.  The second option would be for Rivers to create short route threats to compliment a few deep balls here and there.  Enter Antonio Gates.

As always, TE Gates is a favorite target of Rivers.  Gates was such a threat, that Denver used to match Bailey against him.  SD countered brilliantly by bringing in Chris Chambers (WR) from the Dolphins, giving Gates room to do his thing.

In my mind, SD has three threats in the air.  Chambers, Vincent Jackson, and TE Gates.  As they've done against other teams this year with threats at TE, Denver will attempt to neutralize the TEs indirectly.  Instead of focusing on coverage, Denver will likely go after Rivers, forcing the Chargers to keep their TE in to block.  Between CBs Champ Bailey and Andre' Goodman, and even Jack Williams (rising in his level of play) and rookie hot shot Alphonso Smith, Denver can cover the WR threat.  If the ball gets too deep, legendary safety Brian Dawkins and safety Renaldo Hill (playing very well in his first year with Denver) should stop any deep threats.

Another quick note on the running game.  SD is an odd duck, in that (unlike other teams) they prefer to run to the weak side on most plays.  With the left side of the OL looking weak, this should limit LT or Darren Sproles.

SD offense - game plan

Can SD run against Denver?  I don't think that they can.  But if they don't at least make the effort, it can cause headaches for the passing game (and Rivers, who has been getting sacked quite a bit this year).  Because SD has good depth at TE (and because they aren't so hot at the outside of the offensive line), and because they face a 3-4 defense (really a 5-2 in my opinion), SD should use a lot of 2 TE looks.  To aid with the run, they should use twin TE looks (both TEs to the same side).

From this formation, they can attempt runs with extra protection to one side, or go into quick passes with those TEs.  They can also set up screens for Darren Sproles, who is a major threat on STs returns and could be deadly in screen situations.

SD needs to have a credible running game, or at least a consistent, short passing game to set up the vertical passes that Rivers likes.  He already faces an incredible Denver secondary, so he'll need to do everything he can to sell the short yardage game.

When passing long, Rivers will need to be in a shotgun formation (the QB further from scrimmage to buy time).  The advantage for Rivers here is time to drop back and throw, but the disadvantage is that the defense will clamp down on each player lined up as a receiver.  If the OL continues to play poorly, any sacks this far from scrimmage will be hard to overcome.

DEN Defense - game plan

It doesn't get old.  Denver needs pressure, pressure, and more pressure.  Denver's pressure and penetration is not only the reason that teams have a hard time passing against Denver, but it also causes major disruptions in the run game.  With five players on the line (and with even the OLBs being true [former] DEs), Denver's defense presents pass rush and run disruption opportunities on every play.  But the SD offense is particularly exposed.  With the loss of center Nick Hardwick, the rest of the OL seems to be in chaos.

Denver can play man to man with the SD WRs with no problem, and leave the safeties back for over-coverage.  The front five can penetrate, while the two true LBs (both leading the team in tackles) can zone the center for runs or passes over the middle.

The presence of sack-machine Elvis Dumervil is perhaps the biggest threat on the field for Denver's defense.  SD will not stop him one on one, but a team can't afford to double him with four other defensive players right on the line.

The DEN Offense versus the SD Defense

What happens when the 27th run defense in the League (SD, giving up 151 yards a game) meets the 5th best run offense in the League (DEN, gaining 139 yards a game)?

Let's give Orton some credit.  His QB rating is 97.4, which is slightly better than River's 90.6.  Orton's only INT of the year was an end of half hail Mary throw.  He played his first four games with Denver wearing a restrictive glove to protect an injured finger, and still performed like a pro.  Folks call him a game manager (as if this is a derogatory term), but the correct title for Orton is "winner".  Orton has a good arm (yes, the "noodle" moniker was bs).  But Orton's best quality is intelligence.  He's picked up a complex system very quickly, and adjusts to radical changes in game planning (and the play book) each week.  So let's give the guy credit.  And then....

Let's run the ball.

SD is hurting on both sides of the ball.  Injuries have hurt this team, and the team is off to a slow start from many players who were considered to be play makers.  But there is one threat on the field for SD that is a constant, and that is Rivers.  To keep Rivers off the field, Denver should use their vaunted running game against a weak run defense.  Orton is capable of beating the SD pass defense, and has a lot of weapons.  SD, on the other hand, just released a safety on Wed (Clinton Hart), and there has been talk of benching CB Antonio Cromartie (a once rising player).  Antoine Cason may be the answer for this team at CB.  Meanwhile, Quentin Jammer will face either Brandon Marshall or Eddie Royal this week, leaving the rest of the SD DBs to deal with the other WR, plus Jabar Gaffney and Brandon Stokley (not to mention TE threats Daniel Graham and Tony Scheffler).

But at least there is potential for hope in the SD secondary.  The SD defensive line has looked dreadful, and the LBs have looked ordinary.  It could be the decimation of the SD D-line, or it could be the defection of D-line coach Wayne Nunnely from SD to Denver.  But the weakness of the SD defense is the front seven, and Denver can run at it.

Buckhalter is back at practice, and should be ready for Monday.  Moreno has been looking better and better.  Why not score early, then just run the ball down the Chargers' throats?  There's nothing like a good running game to take the other team's fans out of a game and to wear down the opposing team (notice how Denver has looked great in the second half?  That's endurance conditioning).

DEN Offense - game plan

If there is a game to run the ball, this is it.  Keep the other team's biggest threat (Rivers) off the field, and match up a very good running game against a terrible run defense.  Focus on running the gut to allow Orton his signature screens and quick hitches to the edges of the field.  Nothing fancy here, just good old fashioned smash mouth football.

But when we DO throw the ball, Orton should stick with his bread and butter plays.  No need to take chances in this game; just make the high percentage, quick throws to keep the clock going and to limit INTs.  Let playmakers like Marshall and Royal make the big plays after the short catch.  Against a team that isn't tackling too well, screens with downfield blockers can be deadly.

SD Defense - game plan

This team hasn't proven that they can rush the passer, nor stop the run.  They also face a credible air attack from Orton.  This is not a good defense.

In such situations, you take away the big plays as best you can and hope that long drives by the opposition will result in a failure to convert or a turn over.  SD has good CBs, and shouldn't "waste" them in zone.  The CBs may be the best part of this defense.  Man the CBs, and deep zone both safeties.  Dedicate one LB to manning the Denver RB, and zone the remaing LBs.  It is a simplistic plan, and not a good one.  But SD doesn't seem to have many options here.

SD likes to strip the ball, but they need to focus on making sound tackles for this game.  What they've been doing hasn't been working.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Match-ups

(Team with advantage is in bold and italics)

 

Denver Offense                              vs                                     SD Defense 

 

Points - 19.8 (22nd)                       vs                                      Points - 25.5 (25th)

Yards - 376.8  (6th)                        vs                                     Yards - 365.8 (26th)

Pass - 237.8 (15th)                         vs                                     Pass - 214.8 (12th)

Rush - 139 (5th)                              vs                                     Rush - 151 (27th)

*      *     *

Denver Defense                             vs                                     SD Offense

 

Points - 8.6 (1st)                             vs                                     25.2 (10th)

Yards - 252.8 (2nd)                        vs                                     349.2 (10th)

Pass - 171.8 (5th)                           vs                                     295.5 (2nd)

Rush - 81 (6th)                                vs                                     53.8 (32nd)

In summary, SD has advantages in only two areas - passing, and stopping the pass.  But those advantages are small in terms of ranking and yards.  (Part of the pass stats for SD may be the last quarter of the PITT game, where PITT played prevent and gave up a lot of yards and 21 points).  On the other hand, Denver's advantages in other categories are much wider.

Noteworthy is that SD is losing their average game - 25.2 to 25.5 (they have no room for error in their games).  Meanwhile, Denver wins their average game 19.8 to 8.6

Denver clobbers SD in running the ball and in defending the run.

Keys to the Game

Denver -

  1. Make this a running game.  Denver has a massive advantage running the ball and stopping the run.  SD's only chance is Philip Rivers, and perhaps a major ST play.  So...
  2. Don't allow Sproles (or anyone else) to be a difference maker on ST.
  3. And most of all - Pressure Rivers early, often, and hard.

San Diego -

  1. If you want your best weapon to have a chance, you had better protect Rivers.  Good protection also means you can sneak Gates out to the flats.
  2. SD might not be able to stop the run.  But they must keep it in check.  Give up a few yards here and there, but don't give up a big play on the ground.
  3. Win the turnover war.  Orton may be "due" for an INT, but don't count on it.  Instead, make sure you fall on anything a Denver RB or QB fumbles.  You'll need those chances.  Denver gets their yards in bits and pieces, and a turnover can be devastating.  Don't miss any opportunity if a ball hits the ground.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

SD has several things going for them.  A week of rest, an extra week of prep, a good QB, and home field on a national stage.  Denver has a lights out defense, a solid running game, and a mistake free passing game.

While SD won a game against OAK, it was closer than a game against OAK should be.  On the other hand, they played tough against PITT, and respectable against BAL in two losses.  While they are injured and not playing great football, they look to me like a team that can jump up at any moment and reassert themselves.  They have good players all over the team that just don't seem to playing to their potential.

Denver, on the other hand, has beaten good teams in CIN, DAL, and NE, while brushing off CLE and OAK.  If anyone wants to question how good DAL and NE are, it is in part due to their losses against DEN.  CIN looks like a very good team, and Denver won a game that either would have been a TD reception by the intended receiver or (because it was tipped) a TD reception by a heads up player.

I don't believe in "trap" games.  If there is such a concept, it is a fan concept and not a coaching one.  Any coach that thinks that any game can be overlooked deserves to lose every game he plays.  McDaniels is not the kind of coach to overlook a team.  He and DC Nolan know the stakes; this is a division game.  So does SD, and I fully expect a team like SD (with their backs against the wall in the AFC West race) to come out swinging.  In other words, expect SD to play like SD, and not like how they've played so far.

LT hasn't been LT, but count him out at your peril.  Merriman may be hurt and weakened, but if he ever brings his "A game", this is the time.  If SD loses this game, they'll probably have to win out the season to get a shot at a playoff spot.

And Denver is done with silencing critics.  Those who still think the Broncos are a 3-13 team have been exposed, and only make themselves look more foolish for making excuses for Denver's opponents.  Denver is now playing for a good seeding in the post season, and that makes this week's game the most important game they've played so far.

I think Denver is a different team from last year, from top to bottom.  We have a QB that doesn't give away games, we have a defense that shuts down anything in their path, and we have a coaching staff that gets the best out of their players week in and out.  SD is also different.  They were an 8-8 team last year, but cracks seem to be developing further.  If SD is going to make a run at glory, this is the game of the season.

For me, I'll take Denver.  The match-ups seem to favor Denver strongly, but I won't pick Denver to win big quite yet.  I expect a fully loaded and prepared SD team for Monday Night Football, and I expect that there will be big plays both ways.  I expect a great game that may overshadow the Saints / Giants game in terms of good play.  I expect a memorable game.

Most of all, I expect 6-0 going into the bye.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I knew Denver would be a better team this year.  I predicted an 8-8 record, but wrote that Denver would play much better, win or lose.  I figured Denver would beat Cincy and CLE, and figured we should win one or two against OAK (nice to beat OAK in OAK).  DAL was a toss-up to me during the offseason, but I thought we had a fair shot.  Before the season, NE would have been a loss in my book.  By the time the game came up, I called it "too close to call".  I was right - the game went into overtime.

It is past time to look at what I think of the games going forward, so here it is.

SD - In the reloading season I would have called this 50/50.  I think we win in SD.

BAL - Before the season - loss.  Now, tough call.

PITT - Before the season - loss to SB champs.  Now - win (we can exploit that OL).

WAS - Before - toss up; leans win.  Now - win.

SD - Likely win.

NYG - We might be able to go toe to toe.  If we do, we are (gasp!) SB contenders.  For now, let's say a potential loss.

KC - Win

INDY - Along with NYG, our toughest game on the schedule.

OAK - I'm really trying hard not to laugh out loud.

PHI - This could be a tougher game than we expect.

KC - If we are in the playoffs, we might rest players at this point.

I'll say that at this point our basement should be 10 to 11 games, with 11 to 12 likely.  13 (are you listening Mike Clark?) is a real possibility.  More importantly, a post season spot is probable.

Forget about "power rankings" for a moment, and consider the official rankings.  According to the NFL's rankings (based on games won and official tie breaks), this is how the top six teams rank -

OFFICIAL NFL TEAM RANKS

1) Your Denver Broncos

2) Colts

3) Vikings

4) Saints

5) Giants

6) Bengals

We've beat number 6, and we still have number 5 and number 2 to go.  (By the way, 9-PHI, 10-BAL, 11-DAL, 12-NE, 14 PITT).

We've played, and have left to play, teams in the top half of the League right now.  Any wins we get are well-deserved, and every game is good preparation for the post season.  Playoffs?  PLAYOFFS?  That's right Mora, I said it.  Denver is going to the playoffs this year.  McDaniels is not a coach that allows late season collapses.  I'm calling it.  Denver qualifies.

Poll
Denver...
Doesn't make playoffs
47 votes
In as a wild card or division champion
544 votes
Along with another AFC team, gets a bye in the WC round
584 votes

1175 votes | Poll has closed

28 recs  |  Comment 176 comments |

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Seems like the Chargers..

..have to get a lot of things right, that they have been having trouble, with in order to win this game. I would imagine that will end up confusing the team and put to much pressure on them in to many areas for them to overcome a Denver team that honestly just needs to continue doing what is has done so far this season.

by HorseStance on Oct 16, 2009 11:10 AM MDT reply actions   1 recs

I don't think an extra week of prep hurts...

…or confuses a team. In fact, this year the teams coming off of byes are undefeated or have lost one, I think.

But they’ve also dealt with some turmoil (like the manager’s comments), and they have more key losses (like OC and NT) than we do. Their traditionaly good running game isn’t taking off, and if one thing scares an OC, it is an inablity to run the ball.

"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe

by Steve Nichols on Oct 16, 2009 2:29 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Your probably right that they bye helps them iron out most kinks..

.. But I just can’t help think that they will have to raise their game far above the natural level that they have been playing this year in order to win.. taking into account their injury list and the areas they are struggling.. where as our natural playing level has been pretty high so far so by right we should just keep doing what we are doing with just a couple of things to improve..

The problem for the Chargers is that if their problems stem from their coaching or team cohesiveness.. those problems are not necessarily things you can fix in 2 weeks.. I think AJ was trying to light a fire under them.. only time will tell if it has worked..

They could very well come out strong.. but if one or two things don’t go their way it will be interesting to see how they cope..

by HorseStance on Oct 16, 2009 2:45 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

I don't blame the coaching so much.

I think Norv is better than many folks give him credit for.

But the locker room sounds like they are distracted, the GM is calling out the team (dumb move in my opinion), and they have aging guys they aren’t doing a good job of replacing. If anything, I blame the GM for a team with cracks showing that isn’t making good moves to stop the deterioration.

SD used to be very good, then they dropped to 8-8 last year. This year, they don’t look like an 8-8 team to me.

"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe

by Steve Nichols on Oct 16, 2009 3:10 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

I like this point!

SD needs to play a virtually perfect game to beat the match-up problems that Denver poses on both sides of the ball. They’re also coming off a bye, meaning ample time for the team to over-think this game. Along with the desperation factor, I see the chargers putting up a good fight, but making some very costly mistakes to lose the game.

Denver on the other hand, needs to only continue playing their game. No need to force the issue when you are the better team, in the better position.

The key (I think) is special teams. If it isn’t Sproles giving the coverage teams ulcers, it’s the Denver return units shooting themselves in the foot. Play sound in this phase, and I think Denver emerges victorious.

- Jason

Horton is WIN - HORVIL TIKI

by jubei on Oct 16, 2009 12:00 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

+1

I don’t think that Priefer will settle for less this week after the ear bashing that he got last week.. That is definitely in our favour.. McD said that they go over in a weeks practice what they did badly last week.. I think they will focus on ST a lot this week due to the Sproles factor and the mistakes from last week.

by HorseStance on Oct 16, 2009 12:07 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

+1 and also

I think they work hard with Moreno this week on holding onto the ball.

... if you have a belief, you will tend to find things that support it. But if you have a prejudice, you’ll move heaven and earth to maintain it. BroncoBear

by 3nS on Oct 16, 2009 12:14 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

It was funny watching Moreno with...

…that two handed, cradle carry. You know he’s worried about fumbles. On the other hand, I want him to get his confidence in gear. He needs to hold the ball in a one arm cradle to make better cuts and get better speed.

"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe

by Steve Nichols on Oct 16, 2009 2:31 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Maybe he should switch to the style of carrying that Tiki Barber resorted to late in his career. The “Elbow Stuff”, if you will…

by aLuffabo on Oct 16, 2009 3:07 PM MDT up reply actions   1 recs

Well...

sure Priefer would like to improve and maybe they will reduce stupid mistakes, but we haven’t had return game all year

by si_ice on Oct 16, 2009 12:19 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm hoping McKinley will change that!

He is on the team we may as well use him.. he is fast and elusive and has great vision.. Once he gets over rookie nerves.. which I think he will given the reps I think he is a real threat in the return game.

So far Royal and Smith have been average at best returning.

by HorseStance on Oct 16, 2009 12:21 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Hope McKinley works out well in the return game as well

I can’t say I’m thrilled to see Eddie used that way when he’s much more valuable as a possession receiver.

"Take what you can. Give nothing back!"

by Colorado_Kitten on Oct 16, 2009 1:58 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

I really think McKinley could be very very good returning.

He seems to be able to get that extra burst. Just catch and hold onto the football, son!

To all of the doubters, to all of the haters, one simple message:
We will be back! Our purple knights will be victorious once again.

by The Lodo Magic Man on Oct 16, 2009 7:43 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

do you like the wildcat then?

or rather the “wildhorses”, since SD’s front 7 is so suspect, giving the runningback one more blocker and more time and distance to find holes seems like it could potentially be extremely effective.

by march20 on Oct 16, 2009 11:15 AM MDT reply actions   0 recs

Oh great point dude..

.. please HT could you do a break down of what the ‘wild horse’ is and how it helps you get an advantage over the opposing team? The commentators kept saying it but i really didn’t fully understand it.. i guess i’m still in the process of learning this game.. but a MHR-U would really help me!

by HorseStance on Oct 16, 2009 11:23 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

well, my limited knowledge tells me simply that

in a normal run formation like the i or something, the quarterback just hands the ball off and then stands back and watches. in the wildcat, you either take the QB off the field or in our case just move him to a wideout position. in this formation, he takes away one of the defenders because a corner has to account for the QB. In the normal run formations you’re essentially playing a 10v 11, while in the wildcat it will be 10v10 (not counting either the QB or the corner guarding him).

by march20 on Oct 16, 2009 11:42 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

cool thx..

.. but why does it give the QB the advantage when looking into their back field and why does it simplify the type of D that they can play?

Again this stuff may be incredibly simple to you guys.. but i didn’t grow up with football so some of it really goes way over my head.. but i like learning about it so please indulge me.. :-)

by HorseStance on Oct 16, 2009 11:46 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

no idea..but maybe its because..

defenses generally respond to the offensive formation in front of them and the situational down. For instance, if its 3rd and 10, and the offense comes out with 2 Rbs and 3 Wrs, you know they’re gonna pass even though there are 2 rbs next to the QB because of teh down and the distance to go. and so the defense will most likely respond with 3 or 4 corners or a formation that is designed to stop the pass. However, the defense can also use a variety of plays and change up the formations (various different coverages, blitzes, etc) and i guess since wildcat is such a new offensive play, they have to come out in a base defense that is difficult to change from. If you watched the pats game, when orton came back under center, it suddenly changed from a running play to a pass play. it is difficult for a defense to communicate with everyone and quickly change from rushing defense to a passing defense so they will often have a preset defense that is capable of responding to either the run or the pass.

Since we can assume that their defense will probably stay the same, orton can first make the read of the defense from his “wr” position, come back under center, and then throw to the WR or TE who he believes will be in a hole in the defense.

by march20 on Oct 16, 2009 12:01 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

So.. If i understand..

It’s effective because it puts the D on it’s back foot and caused them to be confused and make them think which will slow down their reaction time I guess, while also allowing Kyle to view where the holes are?

But surely they will just reset to a passing play formation when he comes back to under centre.. ok i think i might have got it.. if he does come back to get the snap the D will shift from a run play to a passing play there by eliminating any blitz’s or formation changes to confuse the QB.. so what he see’s he what he gets which makes it easier for him?

Sound right?

by HorseStance on Oct 16, 2009 12:16 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

My take

One of the things that I think it does is that it adds possibilities. Whenever an NFL team lines up with that formation, 99% of the plays are run plays. The defense sets to stop the run. I think that a lot of what Orton was doing was a QB option — if he read something in the defense that said a pass would be effective, he had the option of motioning under center and taking the snap.

It’s all misdirection and confusion. Great chess-match stuff. I’m just not sure that it will be very long-lived in the NFL. It might be figured out, eventually.

by BroncosBassist on Oct 16, 2009 12:22 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Its like salt

Needs to be used sparingly!

... if you have a belief, you will tend to find things that support it. But if you have a prejudice, you’ll move heaven and earth to maintain it. BroncoBear

by 3nS on Oct 16, 2009 12:24 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Definitely

The other thing that needs to be done, is you have to establish the throw as a threat when your running back takes the snap. Darren McFadden threw quite a number of TDs in college out of the Wildcat, but the NFL teams seem reluctant to use their backs in that way. I guess NFL secondaries are just too good to test in that manner. Of course, there are halfback passes from time to time…

by BroncosBassist on Oct 16, 2009 12:29 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

What about Eddie Royal, BB?

Some folks here have mentioned having Moreno in the shotgun, KO split out wide, and ER running in motion behind Knowshon. Sort of an option where Eddie can take the hand-off and run, take it and pass, or fake to Eddie and have KM keep it.

I ask because I heard Eddie was a former QB. Anyone here know if KM can throw, a la LDT?

- Jason

Horton is WIN - HORVIL TIKI

by jubei on Oct 16, 2009 12:32 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

we dont' have a pure wildcat

its a mcd-modified version. If we decide to pass the ball, orton will come back under center like you saw in the pats game. if moreno gets the snap, he’s gonna run no matter what.

by march20 on Oct 16, 2009 12:33 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Royal is an interesting X-factor

The biggest threat with Arkansas was that if McFadden didn’t keep it, he usually handed it off to Felix Jones, running full-tilt to the edge. Not many college programs in history had that kind of 1-2 punch. Royal could play a role similar to that, plus add in his throwing ability. I really don’t have a good feel for how it would be used, honestly, though. I didn’t get to see any of Sunday’s game until the Jags finally got put out of their misery and the local affiliate switched us over. By then, they were done with plays out of the wildcat.

I do think we’ve got multi-talented skill players that could cause headaches for the D. I really don’t like the idea of getting too cute, though.

by BroncosBassist on Oct 16, 2009 12:36 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

they are not truly an NFLQB

and they need a receiver to be opened wide like an aircraft hangar door. If you have a real QB who can throw in a tight window with a receiver 1 step ahead of a defender and run like Steve Young, the spread offense (wild cat, wild horse, wild buffalo etc) will definitely will create more havoc on the defense.

Words can fool men but Nature doesn't give a damn!

by MadDogExtra on Oct 16, 2009 12:41 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

I hate to say this

but a guy like Michael Vick might make the Wildcat interesting. If he wasn’t too dumb to run complex offenses, anyway.

by BroncosBassist on Oct 16, 2009 12:47 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

pls pls pls can we not have him on our team..

.. I am all for second chances but animal cruelty is one issue that really gets me going..

by HorseStance on Oct 16, 2009 1:07 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Oh

make no mistake, I definitely wasn’t advocating him as a player for the Broncos. I can’t stand that he was even reinstated, personally.

by BroncosBassist on Oct 16, 2009 1:35 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

I very much dislike Vick

Always have regardless of his personal life.

He was never a good passer and I just don’t think you should have a poor passer as your QB.

Now I find his wildcat ability intriguing. But that’s because he wouldn’t be a real QB, just a change of pace guy to pick up some yards here and there. But I think with him or with any wildcat player there is a danger in making the Wildcat permenant. Meaning people see Miami average 7 yards or whatever and say they should run the wildcat every play.

To me that defeats the intent of the wildcat. if you don’t have the abilty to truly vary your play calling (and wildcat formations alone don’t) defenses will be able to stop you.

by trumanj on Oct 16, 2009 1:58 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

yippers

MHR...and proud of it!

by MHRsGirl on Oct 16, 2009 1:56 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

I once spoke with Dan Reeves about this...

…several years ago. His feeling was that it would have intitial success. But once teams caught up with it, it would get ground up.

The best use of the wildcat, or any single wing variant, is as either a surprise factor or to probe a defense for reads.

"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe

by Steve Nichols on Oct 16, 2009 2:45 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

"I once spoke with Dan Reeves about this..."

Seriously?

"It's the first time that I've probably ever seen a 260 pound back run into a free safety and go flat on his back, I mean it was exciting." ~John Elway

by jibbons on Oct 16, 2009 4:14 PM MDT via mobile up reply actions   0 recs

Yes.

I’ve met a few good coaches in my time. I didn’t meet Reeves until after he had left the Broncos. He’s the one, pro, head coach I’ve probably spoken to the most.

"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe

by Steve Nichols on Oct 16, 2009 5:09 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Good stuff.

I’ll add some detail in the next MHR-U. BTW, if you take out the QB and have 1 WR, you get a single wing offense. Some would call the wildcat a single wing variant.

"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe

by Steve Nichols on Oct 16, 2009 2:40 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

I will be doing an MHR-U story on the wildcat / wildhorses.

I’ve been getting a lot of requests for that, as well as requests for info on 4-4 formations. Expect it next week.

: )

"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe

by Steve Nichols on Oct 16, 2009 1:36 PM MDT up reply actions   1 recs

looking forward to that one

Will be great learning adventure.

by papasteven on Oct 16, 2009 1:37 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

yay

Conversation nonstarters: hoping McDaniels fails, comparing Bears to Broncos, Cutler to Orton, apples to oranges, and casual drinkers to Raiders fans.

by broncosmontana on Oct 16, 2009 4:56 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'll be doing an article on it.

THe way it helped against NE was by forcing them to respect waht looked like an obvious run play. When NE had to adjust, McDaniles was able to see what NE does to adjust from certain base looks to what is going to be a run. Then when Orton moved back over the center, NE had to “show” by switching to account for pass.

McD did it early, and it was more of what we call a “probe” move, which is to get reads on a defense. Most teams “probe” by putting a man in motion. For example, if a man goes in motion, and nobody on the defense reacts, they are in zone. If a certain player follows the man in motion, that player is assigned to the man in motion. If different players move to follow the man in motion, then stop in front of a different offensive player while yet another defensive player continues to follow, the offense finds out every man assignment on the defense.

These are hard to counter for defenses, and defensive counters to probes don’t really kick in until college level.

What McD did with the “Wildhorses” was less intended to pick up yards, and more intended to read the NE defense’s play book for this game. It probably knocked out 5% to 10% of what the defense wanted to use for this game without being seem.

Brilliant chess play by McD!

"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe

by Steve Nichols on Oct 16, 2009 2:39 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Excellent!

I wonder what other gems we have yet to see from Josh’s Offensive encyclopaedia.

by HorseStance on Oct 16, 2009 2:53 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Tight End Coverage

In the game Sunday the Wildcat formation also opened up passes to the tight end. From my recollection we completed 3 or 4 passess to Scheffler and Graham out of the Wild Horse, motion Orton back under center. I think this is because at first they account for the tight end as a blocker and then have to quickly account for him as a receiver.

by RockyMountainThunder on Oct 16, 2009 5:00 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

A lot of nice confusion..

..as well as looks at what the defense was going to do.

We also caused NE to burn a time out with a group substitution ploy, which was pretty sweet.

"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe

by Steve Nichols on Oct 16, 2009 5:03 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Blurring the lines

One thing that bothers me about this wildcat business is the rules for roughing the QB. If the QB lines us as a WR you should be able to chuck him at the line. Even if he goes in motion and lines up at QB the “roughing” penalty should be off because you forced the defense to react as if he were a WR. A RB lined up as a QB also waives protection rights IMO. If an offense is going to blur the lines between what position a guy is playing, then the defense has every right to tackle the player in the most indescriminate fashion.

I would call the rule “waiving the skirt”.

That being said, I think the wildcat is one of the most innovative strategies to come into vogue in the NFL in a long time. Miami is exciting to watch simply because of it. Denver’s use of it in the last game, however, was full of sound and fury but signified not much. It was about as useful as sending a guy in motion.

Farting in the huddle is not "gamesmanship".

by BuddyHollysPilot on Oct 17, 2009 9:08 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

The roughing rule applies to...

…whomever is lined up at the QB position. However, if a player is on the roster as a QB and lines up as a receiver, he is fair game. BUT, refs will be watching for unneccassary roughing for QBs lined up at WR.

The League is going to protect true QBs, but they also realize that a RB lined up at QB is valuable to the team, and deserves the same protection unless he starts to run. (You’ll note that roughing the passer goes out the window when a QB leaves the pocket).

"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe

by Steve Nichols on Oct 17, 2009 12:33 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Do you know everything?

Thanks HT!

No man is an island, though his definitive appendage looks similar to a peninsula.

by BuddyHollysPilot on Oct 18, 2009 12:07 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

No, not really.

I picked this up from an interview with the guy who directs the officials for the NFL before the season.

And while I don’t know EVERYTHING, I’m awfully proud of this exchange I had with a member a few months ago (regarding an article I wrote on the 5-2)…

Awesome Way to break it down for us laymen. Care to take a stab at the nuclear decay chain for Protactinium-234 and it’s electrical response in a sub-zero Nitrogen cooled Germanium crystal? That’s what I’m struggling with today, but at least our defense is making some sense to me now!
Again, nice work Teach and keep it up.

Go Broncos!

by Royal With Cheese on Sep 2, 2009 3:55 PM EDT reply

*

Protactinium-234? I don’t know much about that, except that 29 radioisotopes of protactinium have been characterized, with the most stable being 231-Pa with a half life of 32760 years, 233-Pa with a half-life of 26.967 days, and 230-Pa with a half-life of 17.4 days. All of the remaining radioactive isotopes have half-lifes that are less than 1.6 days, and the majority of these have half lifes that are less than 1.8 seconds. This element also has 2 meta states, 217m-Pa (t½ 1.15 milliseconds) and 234m-Pa (t½ 1.17 minutes).

The primary decay mode for isotopes of Pa lighter than (and including) the most stable isotope 231-Pa (ie, 212Pa to 231Pa) is alpha decay and the primary mode for the heavier isotopes (ie, 232Pa to 240Pa) is beta minus (β−) decay. The primary decay products of isotopes of Pa lighter than (and including) 231-Pa are element Ac (actinium) isotopes and the primary decay products for the heavier isotopes of Pa are element U (uranium) isotopes.

But hey, electical responses in sub 0 Nitrogen cooled Germanium Crystal? We don’t cover that in MHR-U!

lol

“Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep” Defoe

by hoosierteacher on Sep 2, 2009 4:36 PM EDT

*

OMG That was awesome! You’re boundless knowledge never ceases to amaze! Again great write-up on the D, and nice summation of the decay series. 234Pa decays to 234U via gamma decay w/ half-life of about 1 minute. The electrical response in Germanium is 1,001 keV, BTW (as opposed to 1,120 keV for Bismuth-214).

+1E34 (and rec’d of course!)
Go Fission er Broncos!

by Royal With Cheese on Sep 2, 2009 5:04 PM EDT

"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe

by Steve Nichols on Oct 18, 2009 1:13 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Guess it was a few weeks ago.

"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe

by Steve Nichols on Oct 18, 2009 1:15 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think

That you’d better change your handle to hoosierprofesser! =)

Character may be manifested in the great moments but it is made in the small ones -- Philip Brooks

by KaptainKirk on Oct 18, 2009 4:20 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

I've thought about that...

…but I don’t want to jinx myself and end up on a deserted isle with some odd castaway types.

"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe

by Steve Nichols on Oct 19, 2009 7:36 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

1-0

As you say, the coaches know how important this game is. We are only 1-0 in division games. This game is HUGE. I agree that the Broncos win this game. But not by a blowout as some are predicting. Mainly because we should run the ball all day and run the clock out as soon as possible. The dolts passing game will probably score a couple of touchdowns and a field goal. I predict 27-17 Broncos.

by Endzone on Oct 16, 2009 11:15 AM MDT reply actions   0 recs

1-0 in division: great point Endzone

We have to take care of business in the division. I have confidence that we are the better team, but because it is our toughest division rival, I know that there will be moments where my stomach just goes into knots.

"Take what you can. Give nothing back!"

by Colorado_Kitten on Oct 16, 2009 11:53 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Interesting points.

1) We are only 1-0 in the division. True. But Oak and KC look so awful, that SD seems to be the key game. If we beat them in SD on a Monday night, that’s HUGE!

2) I’m unsure if the game will be close or not. One reason to think it should be close is that is how I think we should play it (clock and ball control). On the other hand, there are two reasons to think blowout.

First, I’m having a hard time finding math-ups that favor SD. All of their best advantages are intangibles (homefield, motivation, etc).

Second, I’m wondering if McDaniels might want to send a message (ala Belechick) to the League – “We’re here to beat down our division, and anyone who gets in our way”. We’re not under the radar anymore, and a convincing win to pysch other teams might be worth a shot.

"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe

by Steve Nichols on Oct 16, 2009 1:40 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'll second that!

No better way to go into your bye than 6-0 after marching into your divisional foes house and humiliating them on national TV.

"Take what you can. Give nothing back!"

by Colorado_Kitten on Oct 16, 2009 2:08 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

100% agreed coach....Orton and Co were just warming up for this game...dominate division we are in play offs....

with possibly a week off!
Great article as always HT!

Those that cant coach, compete!
Failing to plan is planning to fail.
All I want is 53 Rod Smiths. Is that asking too much????
"Peyton Hillis didn’t rip the sleeves off his jersey, they flew off out of fear."
Calijoefornia.

by boydy2669 on Oct 16, 2009 2:13 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

I found a 4th Manning brother.

Photobucket

You are banned from Music City Miracles.
Happy Now Tits?
You are banned from Blogging The Boys.

by CFHTim on Oct 16, 2009 11:46 AM MDT reply actions   0 recs

Awesome as Always!!

What is the influence on the game if SD uses Michael Bennett as the lead RB??
Also, the real danger of D Sproles is off of screens and on the Draw play. He was very effective on the draw play against Baltimore except for the last play of the SD drive in the Red Zone – where the Baltimore defender (Lewis?) spied out the play and made a tackle in the backfield to kill the SD drive.

If Rivers can get the passing game going, it will force Denver to be more aggressive and put more people in the pass rush, and unfortunately open up the Denver D to Sproles specialties of draws and screens.

I expect a toss up game unless Orton can get the offense firing on all cylinders!

To accomplish great things, we must not only act, but also DREAM; not only plan, but also BELIEVE.

by Broncobh on Oct 16, 2009 11:51 AM MDT reply actions   0 recs

Here is why Sproles is dangerous in returns...

The screen play is the one type of play that looks (to the receiver) almost exactly like the dynamics of a punt return. Sproles excels in both.

Bennetts effect – If LT is not his old self, Bennett SHOULD get the go ahead. LT’s biggest contribution is that he is a rare breed – someone that can do it all (even throwing!)

Even if Bennett starts, he is much less to gameplan for. I am more worried about LT starting and playing like his old self.

"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe

by Steve Nichols on Oct 16, 2009 1:44 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

I don't think Bennett will do much

and that is because SD doesn’t use him. They got him last year, was inactive for every regular season game, and has been used very little this year. Monday may change, however I don’t count on it. They got him last year so we wouldn’t get him….and that’s it.

2009 NBA Champions L.A Lakers
2009 NBA Finals MVP Kobe Bryant

by weazel on Oct 16, 2009 10:37 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Agreed.

"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe

by Steve Nichols on Oct 17, 2009 12:33 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

since when is our pass rush monstrously good? In my mind it seems average at best considering we have to blitz to get any pressure at all

A truth can only be expressed and enveloped in words if it is one-sided. Everything that is thought and expressed in words is one-sided, only half the truth; it all lacks totality, completeness, unity.

by Todd Jewell on Oct 16, 2009 11:53 AM MDT reply actions   0 recs

I respectfuly disagree.

We haven’t really blitzed much this season, and we’ve still generated a lot of pressure. In fact, one of our players is tied for the League lead in sacks.

I think a lot of our high profile sacks have been blitzes, but our overall pressue has been steady, and I’m not seeing a lot of extra players driving in. NE picked up the rush pretty well, but they certainly noticed the absence of one of their tackles too.

Just my opinion.

"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe

by Steve Nichols on Oct 16, 2009 1:49 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

perhaps it is a difference in what my opinion of a blitz is — if we have 5 people up on the line, I don’t consider that “normal” when generating pressure, but more of a blitz. We have not gotten much pressure at all with a 3 man front. Would you agree or disagree with that statement?

A truth can only be expressed and enveloped in words if it is one-sided. Everything that is thought and expressed in words is one-sided, only half the truth; it all lacks totality, completeness, unity.

by Todd Jewell on Oct 16, 2009 2:16 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

right — but can you really consider getting pressure using 5 “monstrously good” ?

A truth can only be expressed and enveloped in words if it is one-sided. Everything that is thought and expressed in words is one-sided, only half the truth; it all lacks totality, completeness, unity.

by Todd Jewell on Oct 16, 2009 2:27 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

When I say monstrously good pressure...

…I mean that our pressure is great, whether we call it rush or blitz. Teams have to account for pressure on their QBs against Denver. It can keep a TE like Whitten in to block, and cause problems for teams like SD that prefer NOT to keep RBs in to block. Much of the time, these rushes or blitzes are only attempts to penetrate a gap to pull a lineman or to demand a double team, but they get more success than intended and a player actualy gets through.

The semantics are a marginal issue. Good coaches and fans will disagree on everything from what defines a blitz (to me, anything not from scrimmage, to others – anything over 4) to what defines a 3-4 (to me, 3 on the line, to others – any base other than a 4-3).

"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe

by Steve Nichols on Oct 16, 2009 2:52 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Don't we normally rush four men?

I don’t consider that a bltiz, just a four-man rush with the offense not knowing who the fourth man is going to be.

"Surprised to see you, Captain, though pleased." — from Star Trek episode Space Seed.

by spock on Oct 16, 2009 7:04 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yes.

"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe

by Steve Nichols on Oct 17, 2009 12:34 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

I 'm no expert, but I wonder...

…how much of San Diego’s low ratiing in rushing has to do with having to throw the ball more to come from behind, especially v. Pittsburg?

If this be Hell, let us make the most of it!

by Trinidad Jack on Oct 16, 2009 11:58 AM MDT reply actions   0 recs

they

did fall behind early against pitt, but overall this season they havent been able to run the ball. I feel it has something to do with no true FB, and their center (Hrdwick) has been out all season. Plus they are beat up on the OL

somethings wrong, Trying to conquer these fears i thought were gone. And it's been so long, I'm dying to live in a world i don't belong

by broncfanstuckinsd on Oct 16, 2009 12:17 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Thanks, broncfan

If this be Hell, let us make the most of it!

by Trinidad Jack on Oct 16, 2009 12:39 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

You raise a good point Counsel.

I agree with BFSiSD. A look at the runs that SD HAS had shows a terrible deterioration. The loss of Hardwick is a big part of it, but LT isn’t even hitting the edges well.

"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe

by Steve Nichols on Oct 16, 2009 1:51 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

also

if you look at their game films, their O-Line isn’t getting much of a push coming out of the 3-point stance. Their linemen are often still at the line of scrimmage when the RB gets there. On several of their running plays versus Miami, you can see how the o-line failed to maintain their blocks and as a result were behind the d-linemen when the RB reached the “hole” that was supposed to be there.

"The best defense is a good offense. Or is it the other way around." Wolverine
Pray for the best, prepare for the worst, and know you will come down somewhere between the two.
Livin' in La La Land and Lovin' It

by BShrout on Oct 16, 2009 3:43 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Lines

I think Denver’s OL is much better than SD DL and Denver’s Dl much better than SD OL. That combination is hard for any team to overcome. I try to listen as to SD being a worthy foe but I just can’t see it. Denver 27 SD 7.

... if you have a belief, you will tend to find things that support it. But if you have a prejudice, you’ll move heaven and earth to maintain it. BroncoBear

by 3nS on Oct 16, 2009 11:58 AM MDT reply actions   0 recs

Agreed. We look much better in both trench scenarios...

…hands down.

"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe

by Steve Nichols on Oct 16, 2009 1:52 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Great Analysis

I’m not sure K.C. had Manhatten to sell, but they sure do seem to be wondering whether the shiny beads they acquired in the offseason will ever help them win a game. Thakns for the great read.

by phondonkey on Oct 16, 2009 12:05 PM MDT reply actions   0 recs

lol

I’ve been “one upped”!

Thanks for the kind words too.

"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe

by Steve Nichols on Oct 16, 2009 1:53 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

HT how I use your post

I listen to what people have to say all week. I look into stats and past games. In doing this I draw my own conclusions. Then, I compare them with what you say. I make my comments and you and others comment. I wait until the game and see how things play out. This is how I learn.

I thank you for being willing to share your wisdom and insight. This is my favorite post of the week and is always recommended.

... if you have a belief, you will tend to find things that support it. But if you have a prejudice, you’ll move heaven and earth to maintain it. BroncoBear

by 3nS on Oct 16, 2009 12:06 PM MDT reply actions   1 recs

Thanks 3nS

And pay a LOT of attention to the comments. Sometimes I miss something entirely, and sometimes someone will explain something much better than I did.

I’m not trying to predict things so much (like with the keys to the game), as much as giving my take on what I see and what I think. Of course, those things are just opinions. A lot of very sharp fans (not all of whom have coached) have watched pro ball for a lot of years, and have terrific insight. I’ll take myself actually coaching a team, but as far as making observations about what might happen or what to watch for, there are many good opinions out there.

Thanks for giving my opinions a good reading, and all of the best to you!

"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe

by Steve Nichols on Oct 16, 2009 1:56 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Thanks, as always, for the insight, HT!

One player that I would like to hear you discuss is Marcus Thomas. I’ve heard that he rotates in at NT in passing downs. Is this correct?

Do you see him getting an expanded role in this game, due to the reduced threat of the SD run game? I had always heard that he was a disruptive, penetrating DT in the 4-3, and I wonder how that translates to the NT position, especially on passing downs.

Thanks again!

- Jason

Horton is WIN - HORVIL TIKI

by jubei on Oct 16, 2009 12:12 PM MDT reply actions   0 recs

Marcus Thomas.

In a five man front, Thomas can really play anywhere (particulary NT or DG, or if you call our base formation a 3-4: NT or DE). He looks very good to me, and he may not get a lot of credit when he DOES come in because he plugs his gap and gives the credit to another player getting the tackle or sack. I think he’s a keeper, and will continue to improve.

"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe

by Steve Nichols on Oct 16, 2009 2:00 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Thanks for the reply, HT!

So it sounds like he’s definitely playing more as an ‘occupier’ than as a ‘penetrator’.

I’m curious about how difficult the transition can be for a player to move to the unselfish, gap-plugger role after getting some glory as a pass-rushing DT, both in the technical sense and psychologically.

Any thoughts?

- Jason

Horton is WIN - HORVIL TIKI

by jubei on Oct 16, 2009 2:35 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

This comment needs to turn green people!

Character may be manifested in the great moments but it is made in the small ones -- Philip Brooks

by KaptainKirk on Oct 16, 2009 4:39 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Recd

Moreno/Buckhalter in '09

by Emmett Smith on Oct 16, 2009 5:05 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Aww shucks guys.

lol

"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe

by Steve Nichols on Oct 16, 2009 5:05 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Is it me or...

Is it me or do the Charger players sound arrogant when talking about the Broncos? Almost scoff at the idea that they won’t automatically win this game.

While the Bronco players sound humble and totally focused.

Is it just me or is anyone else getting the same kind of vibes from each team? I could just be a homer, but its hard not to see the difference in the quotes.

Verbose in style, dispersion of thought, procrastination in life.

by Tim Lynch on Oct 16, 2009 12:17 PM MDT reply actions   0 recs

At first, I thought you were describing charger fans, rather than players. I was like “right on!”, but then I realized you were talking about players. Yeah, I did notice some nonsense from them (especially Merriman) that sounded like unfounded arrogance. I guess laying an epic blowout on a team to win the division title will do that to you.

by BroncosBassist on Oct 16, 2009 12:27 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

It's not just you.

But frankly, look at their frame of reference. We’ve been whipping boys of theirs for a few years now. They look at the Hochuli game last year and see a stolen SD win, and they look at the DEN-SD game at the end of the season as complete ‘ownage" of the Broncos. That creates a bit of a bias I’m sure. Couple that with some handy excuses for their crappy play and recent decline, and you get the type of comments we’re seeing.

In all honesty, I’m glad that they’ve come out like that. It will make it all the more enjoyable when we take this game from them.

Pride goes before the fall and all of that…

- Jason

Horton is WIN - HORVIL TIKI

by jubei on Oct 16, 2009 12:29 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

It isn't just you

The SD Union Trib calls them “quietly confident.” The Chargers know this isn’t the same team as last year, but they definitely come across as a little cocky and that the “real” charger team will show up.

by jayrocksd on Oct 16, 2009 12:30 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

quiet confidence is not how the Charger players are acting in their comments...lol

Look at the responses to the Bronco players and I see a quiet confidence…the Chargers are like an aristocrat that has sqaundered its wealth and is still pretending it is still part of the upper class of society…

Let’s call the Broncos the debt collectors…the time has come Duke of Doltendy to pay your bills. Welcome to the poor house!

Verbose in style, dispersion of thought, procrastination in life.

by Tim Lynch on Oct 16, 2009 1:23 PM MDT up reply actions   4 recs

Awesome
the Chargers are like an aristocrat that has sqaundered its wealth and is still pretending it is still part of the upper class of society…

I couldn’t even dream to come up with something like that

by T.Dot_Bronco on Oct 16, 2009 2:03 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well if they overlook us like the MSM does,

then they will be in for a surprise.

2009 NBA Champions L.A Lakers
2009 NBA Finals MVP Kobe Bryant

by weazel on Oct 16, 2009 10:43 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

I don't think the Chargers players are being smug at all.

I haven’t noticed it anyway.

But our guys are going about there business like elite professionals. They aren’t getting carried away with wins, they give credit to others, and they remain focused on the job.

I’ve noticed a complete change to the attitudes this year. These guys have the kind of approach in their mindset that champions have. Cool under pressure, confident without smugness, and selfless.

"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe

by Steve Nichols on Oct 16, 2009 2:03 PM MDT up reply actions   1 recs

LEADERSHIP!!!!

From Mr. B to McD and Nolan, and into the lockerroom…They are learning how to play and act like Champions so when the opportunity is right there in front of them, they will be ready to “TAKE IT”

by BroncoSense72 on Oct 17, 2009 7:18 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

5-2 vs 3-4

HT, I’ve been waiting all week for Chalk Talk to ask you this! I was interested in your point that the 5-2 will take away what’s left of SD’s running game as well as put pressure on Rivers, which seems sound. Please correct me if I’m wrong, but it’s also my impression that the 5-2’s weaknesses are around the edge and over the middle, and SD might be able to take advantage of the 5-2 with Sproles and Gates. Do you see any advantage to going to a more traditional 3-4 at times, and possibly blitzing an LB in passing situations?

by CoastalBronco on Oct 16, 2009 12:28 PM MDT reply actions   0 recs

related question

If SD manages to get a perimeter running game going (either Sproles bouncing wide or setting up screens effectively), do you think they might roll Rivers out on bootlegs to buy time for downfield threats? Are we set up schematically to handle that scenario?

Conversation nonstarters: hoping McDaniels fails, comparing Bears to Broncos, Cutler to Orton, apples to oranges, and casual drinkers to Raiders fans.

by broncosmontana on Oct 16, 2009 1:15 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

And Roethlesperger likes his bootlegs, too, right?

Conversation nonstarters: hoping McDaniels fails, comparing Bears to Broncos, Cutler to Orton, apples to oranges, and casual drinkers to Raiders fans.

by broncosmontana on Oct 16, 2009 1:16 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

It is early for me to write about PITT...

…but I’ll give you an early peek.

One thing I’ve noticed about PITT is terrible OL play. Before the season, the SB champ Steelers bothered me. There are still teams that concern me, but I like the match-up against PITT already. Yes, Big Ben can throw and move (and he’ll need to move with that OL of his). But I think PITT has a hard time stopping our pressure.

"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe

by Steve Nichols on Oct 16, 2009 2:14 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yes, SD could do that.

Denver’s bootleg counter out of the 5-2 is excellent outside pressure. A bootleg QB takes a major chance of rolling right into a rushing DE/OLB. Don’t expect any naked (no blocker) bootlegs from Rivers, but he may try a few standard bootlegs to set up inside runs.

The perimeter run may still be tough for SD. They haven’t pulled it off against lesser defenses, and Denver (whether in a 3-4 or 5-2) has a wide enough look that teams shouldn’t challenge the edges too much.

"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe

by Steve Nichols on Oct 16, 2009 2:12 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Thanks HT

I learn so much from you every time out. Really looking forward to your single-wing and 4-4 thoughts next time around.

Conversation nonstarters: hoping McDaniels fails, comparing Bears to Broncos, Cutler to Orton, apples to oranges, and casual drinkers to Raiders fans.

by broncosmontana on Oct 16, 2009 5:06 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

HT has the answers

But we should not presume that every defensive play is a 5-2. Reviewing the games thus far leads me to believe that multiple sets are being used and players are not always in their original starting positions (eg Doom on strongside vs weakside). I’ve seen traditional 3-4;s and 4-3’s this season. The 5-2 is only weak on the edges if the secondary is not up to the task of run/pass coverage. Haggan and Williams are doing outstanding work at ILB (the primary “weak” points for an edge). The advantage of a 5-2 is that it is good at both run defense and pass blitzing. Our outstanding secondary is scary good at both pass and run defense.

by Endzone on Oct 16, 2009 1:45 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

I read your comment only after I wrote mine.

You hit the nail on the head. Great minds think alike.

We’ll be changing formations, moving guys around before the snap (we do a LOT of that, I’ve noticed), and (of course) bring top notch pressure out of the 5-2 look.

"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe

by Steve Nichols on Oct 16, 2009 2:16 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yes.

Denver changes to 4-2 and traditional 3-4 looks often, so that a team can’t just counter one formation. Denver does a lot of disguises, and throws a lot of false looks at offenses.

Denver can counter passes to the seams by either dropping an unexpected player into zone, changing a player’s position at the last moment (we’ve been doing that a lot), and just plain pressuring the QB from the big front look.

As for the middle, I think Denver’s 5-2 look already gives excellent center coverage, so that shouldn’t be an issue.

(Don’t wait all week my friend. I have an e-mail, and even if it takes a few days, I eventually get to every mail).

"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe

by Steve Nichols on Oct 16, 2009 2:08 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

That description gave me this vision

of opposing QBs standing there with all these hyphenated numbers flying by their heads as they try to read the defense.

And before they know it, the flying numbers resolve into 92 and 20!

 XD

Conversation nonstarters: hoping McDaniels fails, comparing Bears to Broncos, Cutler to Orton, apples to oranges, and casual drinkers to Raiders fans.

by broncosmontana on Oct 16, 2009 5:08 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

lol

The neat thing about the pro level is how FAST it goes. I can read an offense or a defense pretty well at the HS level (and at an elite HS level too). I didn’t expect my players to read as well as I did, since they were focused on one aspect of the game, and were dealing with stress (catching your breath, pain, being nervous about getting things right, etc).

But when I watch a pro game, I can recognize a lot of what is gong on, but some of the complexity that the coaches throw out confuse not only me (down at the HS level) but even seasoned pro players and opposing coaches. Take the wildhorse ploy by McD to read the defense, or the group of players on the sideline that “might or might not” come in to substitute. I asked myself during the game, “Would I have seen that coming? Even if I had, how would I have adjusted at game speed?” The answers were “No” and “I would have gotten destroyed”.

It is amazing to watch the pro coaches at work, but the McD vs Belichick battle was (sorry for the worn cliche’) a real chess match. It was Harlem Globetrotter coaching at its finest, and a pleasure to watch.

"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe

by Steve Nichols on Oct 16, 2009 5:16 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Absolutely!

"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe

by Steve Nichols on Oct 16, 2009 6:55 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Why I'm not worried

Kyle Orton interview with Peter King after the Patriot game:

“It was a big win” Orton said, “but what I liked was we prepared like we prepare for any game, like it was any other week. Josh does a good job of that. They create a lot of problems for an offense, and we spent the whole week on that, not on any of the stuff surrounding the game. We put a plan together this week to try to beat New England, which is different from the other game plans we’ve had, and I’m sure this coming week will be no different. That’s the way we play, the way we prepare.”

What I get out of this is that Kyle is as stoked about preparing to beat a team as he is in winning the game. This week they have a whole extra day. San Diego should be worried.

by oncobronco on Oct 16, 2009 12:29 PM MDT reply actions   0 recs

I also read that other players like Orton's attitude during the game.

He wants the ball, and believes he can move it down the field. When we were backed up on the 2 yards line, he didn’t seem to care. He was mentaly prepared to do what needed to be done, and it wore off on the other guys.

My favorite Orton trait is his intelligence. But I’m starting to like his leadership as much or more.

"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe

by Steve Nichols on Oct 16, 2009 2:18 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

intellegence and leadership

completely agree, HT. He’s also got an amazing amount of calm and confidence in any situation that also rubs off on the other guys. Elway was right that Orton will be perfect in this system.

"Take what you can. Give nothing back!"

by Colorado_Kitten on Oct 16, 2009 2:36 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

More on Orton - I knew he didn't throw interceptions, but check this out...

His thoughts before the New England game about the 3 INTS he threw in the San Francisco preseason game :

“I just thought about that this week” Orton said “And I actually took that as a positive. I’m serious. There was a lot of doubt about me locally, but not from the coach. It was great to have a game like that and have the coach back me the way he did, with no reservations. That’s the first time in my career that ever happened to me. I know my game. I’m not a turnover guy. Now I had a coach who knew I wasn’t either.”

I’m speechless.
 

by oncobronco on Oct 16, 2009 3:39 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Kudos to Orton...

..but MUCH kudos to Coach. Knowing to encourage a guy having a rough game can pay off in the long run.

"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe

by Steve Nichols on Oct 16, 2009 5:07 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Orton is smart enough to run McDaniels' offense

and also smart enough to realize, from day one, what a fantastic career break the trade was for him. One of the columnists, maybe even two, made a point of saying, at the time of the trade, McDaniels really likes Orton. McDaniels literally dangled Cutler as bait, then chose, from all the teams that took the bait, the quarterback he most wanted. Orton is smart, as well as a really good clutch player—much better than Cutler—and McDaniels was the one head coach most capable of recognizing and utilizing Orton’s abilities, which were mostly invisible to Chicago’s coaching staff. Orton was wasted on Chicago’s coaches, because they wouldn’t have known how to use his abilties even if they’d known he had them. Cutler’s just right for them, in a sense is just what they deserve. Orton will be much more, now that he has a coach who realizes who he’s got, and in fact went out of his way to get him. I predict it won’t be long before analysts will regularly be using “Orton” and “brilliant” in the same sentence. Orton knows he didn’t have a coach capable of appreciating him before, and that he does now. That’s got to be a nice feeling. McDaniels “rebuilt” the quarterback position as rapidly as he did the rest of the team. The Denver offense is going to be good for years to come because McDaniels, right off the bat, got his man.

"Surprised to see you, Captain, though pleased." — from Star Trek episode Space Seed.

by spock on Oct 16, 2009 7:39 PM MDT up reply actions   1 recs

I don't know if he "literaly" dangled him as bait.

That’s evokes a gross picture in my mind.

lol

But seriously, what I love is that Orton has been steady with the glove, and isn’t afraid to throw the ball away. With the glove off, he drove the length of the field twice against the PATRIOTS. Imagine how much better he has the time to get to. Wow!

"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe

by Steve Nichols on Oct 17, 2009 12:38 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

That is the most comfortable I have seen a QB in the endzone

than I have seen in quite some time, well other than Brady, Manning etc……

2009 NBA Champions L.A Lakers
2009 NBA Finals MVP Kobe Bryant

by weazel on Oct 16, 2009 10:51 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

As always, Thank you HT.

If this be Hell, let us make the most of it!

by Trinidad Jack on Oct 16, 2009 12:43 PM MDT reply actions   0 recs

Thank YOU!

"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe

by Steve Nichols on Oct 16, 2009 2:18 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Question for HT

I have a question this week that may or may not have been asked in the comment section, but I am work and don’t have a lot of time.

Why didn’t you address the dreaded Sproles screen pass in your Chalk Talk? If there is one glaring weakness in our D is the early screen pass. We usually adjust to them, but they appear to get burned by them early in games. Sproles can take it the distance out of the screen pass, which is why I am so worried about that aspect of it.

Verbose in style, dispersion of thought, procrastination in life.

by Tim Lynch on Oct 16, 2009 1:25 PM MDT reply actions   0 recs

+1

Yeah HT…what up?

"Precipitation, which side are you on?
Are you on the rise? Are you falling down?
Let me know, Come on let's go, yeah
Got some if you need it!" -EV

by sadaraine on Oct 16, 2009 1:29 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well actualy, I did.
They can also set up screens for Darren Sproles, who is a major threat on STs returns and could be deadly in screen situations.

The reason Sproles excels in the screen is that the screen play is the one play in the playbook that looks most like a punt or kick return (from the vantage of the receiver).

We’ll counter by either pressuring the QB overall (our bread and butter), or having an OLB/DE in place to disrupt the play in the backfield. Penetration on the edges is a great way to disrupt a screen. If Sproles DOES get the ball, and gets moving, we can be thankful that our new DC keeps both SAFs back to stop this kind of thing.

"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe

by Steve Nichols on Oct 16, 2009 2:23 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

This may sound like an exaggeration...

…but here goes:

If Sproles gets a real clean breakaway to the endzone, and IF for some reason Dawkins can’t be in position to make the play, I wouldn’t doubt it if Nolen doesn’t send Dawkins into the past to take out Sproles’ mother before Sproles is even born.

It sounds harsh, but Dawkins is that good.

Just sayin’.

: )

"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe

by Steve Nichols on Oct 16, 2009 3:04 PM MDT up reply actions   1 recs

That's "Chuck Norris" good

Or “Steven Segal” good.

Verbose in style, dispersion of thought, procrastination in life.

by Tim Lynch on Oct 16, 2009 3:42 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

that's YODA good

Character may be manifested in the great moments but it is made in the small ones -- Philip Brooks

by KaptainKirk on Oct 16, 2009 4:40 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

That's BDAWK good ; )

Conversation nonstarters: hoping McDaniels fails, comparing Bears to Broncos, Cutler to Orton, apples to oranges, and casual drinkers to Raiders fans.

by broncosmontana on Oct 16, 2009 5:03 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

YODA Man?

Moreno/Buckhalter in '09

by Emmett Smith on Oct 16, 2009 5:10 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Screen

Every time a team busted a huge gain on a screen pass against us I was all excited because we had man coverage against the RB, but the problem then turns into, you have three guys who are paid millions to block that that one guy has to get through. We are a very sound tackling team this year but I will go into this game with fear in my heart every time Sproles is on the field.

I love that we adjust so quickly, but I would rather not give up anything on the first attempt so they abandon it early.

I look at this matchup and I see that we walk away with a W, but the only thing that may mess that up is mistakes on ST and big arm Rivers lucky breaks…

by JALefor on Oct 16, 2009 3:02 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Another consideration.

The screen has become the Denver signature play (like the bootleg used to be). Our defense practices against it constantly.

"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe

by Steve Nichols on Oct 16, 2009 3:05 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Completely Off the Subject, but this was awesome!!!

http://www.cbs4denver.com/video/?id=63209@kcnc.dayport.com

Vic and Gary spoof a Coor’s Commercial with McDaniels! Not sure how long it will be up, so I thought I would post it a few places.

"So tell me what happened."
"Well, the last thing I remember is seeing this flash of Blue and Orange and the #22... then everything just went black..."

by HillisRanUover on Oct 16, 2009 1:31 PM MDT reply actions   3 recs

REC'D

Do us all a favor, and post this as a “fanshot video”. I’m not going to steal the idea, but if you make it a fanshot, I’ll move it to the front page. It’s that nice!

"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe

by Steve Nichols on Oct 16, 2009 2:25 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

I already posted it there, however I don't believe Channel 4 makes their vid's "embed"-able...

"So tell me what happened."
"Well, the last thing I remember is seeing this flash of Blue and Orange and the #22... then everything just went black..."

by HillisRanUover on Oct 16, 2009 2:52 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Done!

"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe

by Steve Nichols on Oct 16, 2009 3:07 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

lol!

seriously…I laughed out loud. Put that suckah up in a fan post! Everyone needs to see it! Haha! made my afternoon!

"Take what you can. Give nothing back!"

by Colorado_Kitten on Oct 16, 2009 2:40 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Done.

Front page.

"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe

by Steve Nichols on Oct 16, 2009 3:08 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Brilliant HT

Character may be manifested in the great moments but it is made in the small ones -- Philip Brooks

by KaptainKirk on Oct 16, 2009 1:44 PM MDT reply actions   0 recs

Thank you Kap.

"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe

by Steve Nichols on Oct 16, 2009 2:26 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Another excellent breakdown

on the ol’ chalkboard HT. Rec’d and thanks.

by bchiper on Oct 16, 2009 1:45 PM MDT reply actions   0 recs

You're most welcome

"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe

by Steve Nichols on Oct 16, 2009 2:26 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

with there was too many fingers crossed to vote

wow…this has been totally a wild time…its almost better

MHR...and proud of it!

by MHRsGirl on Oct 16, 2009 1:47 PM MDT reply actions   0 recs

5 wins will do that!

Imagine going into the bye with 6!

"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe

by Steve Nichols on Oct 16, 2009 2:26 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Feels like a dream

and I’m really hoping nobody’s wake me up.

Conversation nonstarters: hoping McDaniels fails, comparing Bears to Broncos, Cutler to Orton, apples to oranges, and casual drinkers to Raiders fans.

by broncosmontana on Oct 16, 2009 5:05 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Imagine five....

…and well six is, like, one whole number better!

And then of course, there’s seven after that. (Denver had 13 in a row leading up to SB 33. The last games they were resting guys).

"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe

by Steve Nichols on Oct 17, 2009 12:40 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Can't post much

but had to thank you for this one – so much great info!

Moreno/Buckhalter in '09

by Emmett Smith on Oct 16, 2009 5:12 PM MDT reply actions   0 recs

Just trying to keep up with your stuff!

Get well soon, and take care of yourself.

"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe

by Steve Nichols on Oct 16, 2009 5:18 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

What do you think McD learned from last year's 30 - 10 whuppin?

The Patriots had a tough time in week 6 in 2008. In your view what are some key differences between last year’s prime time week 6 matchup and this year vs. San Diego?

by Dorado on Oct 16, 2009 5:24 PM MDT reply actions   0 recs

This may surprise you...

…but I don’t think it is an issue for McD to study at all.

Denver has some things in common with NE, but more in terms of philosphy for managment and coaching than actual systems used by the offense or defense. In that respect, Denver and NE are two different teams, and SD would play last year’s NE team differently than this year’s DEN team.

I think McD will study the SD systems, players, and tendancies (as well as strengths and weaknesses of same), but I don’t think the SD/NE game presents much more info than SD vs any other team.

As this year’s Den team is radicaly different (in terms of players and systems), I think the SD coaches have less material to study than Den does. They have the extra week, but less to go on. Just my guess.

"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe

by Steve Nichols on Oct 16, 2009 6:04 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Sharpe eyes

So what is Shannon Sharpe thinking in picking the Chargers to win? I agree with most of the comments about SD’s weaknesses and the Broncos ability to take advantage. I also think the Broncos will win. But I just wonder what Sharpe is thinking. Or maybe he isn’t thinking.

by opinion8r on Oct 16, 2009 6:04 PM MDT reply actions   0 recs

I can't speak for Shannon.

He has a lot of teams to look at in his new job, and I can understand that. Of course, he has played against SD, and has a lot of respect for them. This Denver team is a totaly different animal from the last few years, and SD seems to be in the third year of a slow decline.

What I love is watching Rod Smith telling Dukes that he looks at our schedule, and sees Denver winning the first five games. I saw us winning 3 for sure, probably 4 before the season started. Dukes was stunned, and thought Rod was out of his mind.

I love Smith more and more whenever I watch him speak. He should be coaching, teaching, or running for office. He’s too good to be on a sports network.

"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe

by Steve Nichols on Oct 16, 2009 7:00 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Another Good Post HT!

Where is Shannon’s head with predicting SD over his own Broncos?

I believe you hit the nail on the head. He played against SD and how many games did they play the spoiler or just outright beat our a$$es?

AFC West Teams love to beat Denver. This game will be close with so much on the line for SD and also our team showing some respect for the older Bronco Fans who know it is never a Cake Walk..

Coach, I am Hurt, Not Dead - Remember the Titans

by Halfmile on Oct 16, 2009 7:38 PM MDT reply actions   0 recs

SD won't take this game lying down.

They’ve had an extra week to get motivated, and they know this game means a lot. If we win close, it is because SD played hard, and if we win big it is because we decided to send a message. If SD wins, it is because they played their best and deserved the game.

"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe

by Steve Nichols on Oct 17, 2009 12:43 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

What does Buck do to the wild hourse?

Could it mimic miami with their amazing duo. Who would take the snap? Moreno or Buck? how is orton’s blocking … ha.

The best use of the wildcat, or any single wing variant, is as either a surprise factor or to probe a defense for reads.

Than this quote hit me in the head. Here is to a nice smash mouth brand of run it down your throat with buck and moreno type of game. Keep Rivers off the field. And if he is on, make him run for his life.

Great stuff HT.

Time to win back the west!

GO BRONCOS!!!

by chedro on Oct 16, 2009 7:56 PM MDT reply actions   0 recs

Buckhalter can run it.

I would prefer Moreno, because I like him running inside a little more. But Buckhalter has done a great job inside, so I don’t think it would be a big difference.

Orton can run block. We don’t want him doing much of it, but he’s a tougher player than folks might realize. I also think he can catch, but I really hope we don’t go that route. Also (unlike previous coaches and QBs we’ve had in DEN), I would very much prefer for Orton to slide rather than pick up yards.

"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe

by Steve Nichols on Oct 17, 2009 12:48 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Looking ahead

Good, as always HT. Thanks.
A couple of connected thoughts occurred to me as I read your piece and the comments.
Like you, I thought the Broncos would be much improved this year. I thought McDaniel would be a good coach (my first comment on hearing of the hire was, "There’s Cutler’s ticket to the HOF if he’s coachable.")
I also thought Orton, after the trade, would be more than adequate in the system – good arm and very coachable, and smart.
Also, like you, I thought that the adjustment on both offense and defense would take some time – 2 to 3 yrs for both. So, predicting how quickly it would happen was a crap shoot. I looked for 2 wins in the first 5, then 3 in the next five and 4 of the last 6, for a 9 and 7 season, with which I would have been very happy.
But the progress on both offense and defense has exceeded my expectations. So what to look for now.
The coaching and preparation for the games has been superb. But to master both the 3-4 and the NE system means being so familiar that most decisions happen instinctively – and that takes time. Those instincts are not yet set.
Which means that any good team could get the Broncos on a Sunday when their instincts desert them. They could lose a game they shouldn’t as they can win a game they maybe shouldn’t.
San Diego, though seemingly in noticeable decline, could be as dangerous as a wounded tiger. They have talent at key positions.
The best two characteristics (which may be connected) of the new Broncos is their mental and physical conditioning which puts them in every game to the end, and their ability to make adjustments, a quality I’m going to enjoy getting used to (since it has been noticeably lacking in the current past). They could go around 12-4 this year, or not.
I think, however, that, as they continue to adapt both offensively and defensively, becoming more instinctive, that they will get much better in the next couple of years. In addition, each draft will add noticeable upgrades (OL size at left guard and center), true 2 gap NT’s, replacement talent in the secondary, etc. In addition, I expect 2 or 3 current practice squad players to do very well in the next couple of yrs (i.e. Baker, Pedescleaux, Brandstater).
This year will continue to be exciting, but the coming years may be more so.

by ivanthenotsobad on Oct 16, 2009 8:31 PM MDT reply actions   0 recs

Good stuff.

Denver looks pretty good already, and I wrote that I felt they seemed to be in midseason form a couple of weeks ago. Big surprise, and a pleasent one.

You’ll notice that, despite the good play, Coach and the players keep pointing out that they have a lot to work on. I think this is the “instinctive” level you are talking about. But even that is clicking quicker than expected.

Because the team has pulled together and worked so hard early on, they’ve gotten 5 wins during what should have been “a learning” period. They have built an excellent cushion moving forward, and they seem to have an inside track on the playoffs if they don’t implode.

By the time the playoffs role around, this team (like every other team) should be at their best. This bodes well for Denver.

Right now, I think the best teams in the AFC (no special order) are Denver, INDY, BAL, CINCY, and NE. We’ve already beaten NE and CIN, but they will be better by the playoffs (we might have the better seeding though). In other words, we will play the best teams in the AFC before the playoffs, so we will get a look at them, and also have a good idea of where we stand.

SB or not, this is shaping up to be a good year.

"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe

by Steve Nichols on Oct 17, 2009 12:58 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think the whole we've got a lot to work on mantra

has a lot to do with avoiding complacency. It’s also true, of course, but I’ve seen teams start off hot and the players get overconfident, because they’re not used to being that good. And then comes the fall. Denver’s coaches are doing an excellent job of making sure the players realize they can and have to get better, and when you hear the players say the same thing at press conferences you know they’ve bought into it totally. Having veterans like Dawkins, Stokley, Gaffney et al to impress it on the youngins doesn’t hurt either.

"Surprised to see you, Captain, though pleased." — from Star Trek episode Space Seed.

by spock on Oct 17, 2009 2:17 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

I LOVE hearing these guys...

…downplay each win, saying that “We need to get better”. That’s a major reason why I don’t think we implode after quick starts like we did in previous seasons.

"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe

by Steve Nichols on Oct 17, 2009 2:40 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

HT

Great article! If I may ask, what are the implications of a QB showing shotgun formation and reactions by the defense in response to this? I understand the idea that a QB is further back in his drop to begin with, and thus can watch the field and unload the ball quicker or avoid the pass rush better. However, what else? Does shotgun change the efficacy of screen plays? Is running out of shotgun always at a disadvantage? Can you explain your statement “but the disadvantage is that the defense will clamp down on each player lined up as a receiver”? Will the CBs try to jam the receivers on the line to slow down their deep routes?

Thanks!

by poorboywilly on Oct 16, 2009 9:16 PM MDT reply actions   0 recs

Good stuff Poor!
“…what are the implications of a QB showing shotgun formation and reactions by the defense in response to this?”

A QB in shotgun almost alway means pass. If the play is a run, it is probably going to be a “draw” (the QB drops back to throw, then hands off), or a “delay” (drops back to pass, waits – causing the defense to play the pass, then hands off), or QB draw (drops back or not, then runs).

“I understand the idea that a QB is further back in his drop to begin with, and thus can watch the field and unload the ball quicker or avoid the pass rush better. However, what else?”

There is actualy some debate in football theory as to whether a QB can see more or less by being further back. A good OC and QB’s coach will rely on the QB’s on perception of whether he feels he has a better view of the field or not. There are overall arguments (such as height of players on the OL as viewed up close and from a distance, as well as how details are harder to perceive from a distance, such as the window to pass within), but also individual issues (such as the peripheral vision of a QB, checked at the stronger colleges and all of the pro teams). For example, is it easier to see over your OL when you are right up against them, or further back? I think it is easier right up close, but that’s the QB’s call, not mine.

The one factor that all coaches agree on is that the QB gains more TIME. Defenders have more distance to cover to get to the QB, and this allows longer routes (and routes with more turns or “cuts”) to develop. The tradeoff is that the path for a succesfull pass is more narrow because the distance is further, and though the danger of a sack is lessened, a sack equals a greater loss of yards out of the shotgun.

The danger of pressure is (oddly enough) equal. Though the QB starts further back, most routes in this formation are longer or more complex, so the pressure reaches the QB at about the same time as it would have out of any other type of formation. The defenders take more time, but so do the routes. (You could run easier, shorter routes but you are already giving up a lot of running options, so why not use more routes with more opportunities for greater gain? Here again, coaches disagree).

“Does shotgun change the efficacy of screen plays?”

In my mind, the advantages and disadvantages of the screen from the shotgun balance out. In my opinion (speaking from a defensive coordinator perspective), a shotgun signals pass most of the time, so the WRs are going to be covered. But the extra drop back for the QB is as likely to suck a defender off of the RB as the extra steps back from any other formation (if that is who the QB is throwing to). Of course, the pass could also go to a WR with another WR, TE, and perhaps the OT blocking, or even to a TE catching with WRs blocking. There are many combinations. Either way, while the shotgun has good and bad issues for a screen, I don’t think it is any better or worse for screen plays.

As an anecdote, my first time-out from the sideline (I was middle school D-Coord at the time, and I remember it was my first game as a DC too) was when I yelled to the HC to call it. My defense was set up in our 4-4 (1 CB variation), and the other team came out with 4 receivers on the strong side. Three were in front, with one behind. This was going to be a “bubble screen”, with the target (possibly) being the one in back while the others blocked. Several of my kids reacted quickly and correctly, but I hadn’t prepared them for this and several didn’t (it was my fault). Like McD, the opposing coach was probably more interested in getting us to blow a time out than actualy running the play. It was a good lesson for me. (For what it is worth, the game was memorable for me because it was my first as one of the senior coaches, and we won. The opposing team ended up with negative yardage and several turnovers, and I don’t think I called a single blitz).

Is running out of shotgun always at a disadvantage?

Yes. The only advantage is that the play doesn’t look like a run at first. But the offense now has further to run for first down. There are typicaly less runblockers on the play as well. This doesn’t mean it won’t work (ask Mike Vick), as there are several draw and delay plays that work, but these are against the odds. A QB may call for a run out of the shotgun if he or the coach have been seeing something indicating a chance of success (usually a LB that isn’t keeping his assignment when he sees pass).

“Can you explain your statement "but the disadvantage is that the defense will clamp down on each player lined up as a receiver"? Will the CBs try to jam the receivers on the line to slow down their deep routes?”

SInce the CBs see a shotgun, they can be more confident that the play is pass. This allows them a little room to play the WR more assertively. For example, if the CB feels that he is “better” than the receiver he is covering, he may very well jam the receiver. He may also watch for a better chance to jump the route for the INT. If he isn’t as strong, the idea that the QB is telegraphing a pass (with the shotgun) may make him just that much more alert and careful.

Jamming is a great way to slow the deep pass, but sometimes just letting the CB play “off” the WR allows the CB a little more margin for error. (A blown jam can lead to a big play).

"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe

by Steve Nichols on Oct 17, 2009 1:58 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

wow

Thank’s a bunch! There’s a ton of great information here.

Jamming is a great way to slow the deep pass, but sometimes just letting the CB play "off" the WR allows the CB a little more margin for error. (A blown jam can lead to a big play).

Marshall in the Cowboys game anyone?

by poorboywilly on Oct 17, 2009 9:58 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Good example!

"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe

by Steve Nichols on Oct 18, 2009 1:15 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

You can erase Intangibles

by showing the team videos like this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vCNK9zt5fec&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vD3tpkF8-xI&feature=related

Not to mention getting the Bronco fanbase getting fired up against these people.

by Horsepower on Oct 17, 2009 11:56 AM MDT reply actions   0 recs

It would fire up the fanbase.

But a good team doesn’t play into this stuff. Taunts from fans and such are just distractions.

As for the assault in the tunnel, it just shows how classess some fans are. Note that there were also Charger fans coming to the Bronco fan’s defense. (I noticed that the guy in the Plummer shirt did nothing to stand up for the guy in the Elway shirt).

"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe

by Steve Nichols on Oct 17, 2009 2:06 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Thanks bfree!

"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe

by Steve Nichols on Oct 17, 2009 3:47 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

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