MHR Chalk Talk - Denver Broncos at San Diego Chargers (Week 6, '09)
First, Denver beat the Bengals. Turns out that the Bengals are a pretty good team. Then Denver beat the Browns; no big whoop. Then the Broncos beat the Raiders. Not many of the Raider Nation even bothered to show up for it. Several folks in the media said the Cowboys would put the Broncos in their place. As soon as the Broncos won, those media heads started questioning the Cowboys. Now the hard part of the schedule starts, and the Patriots show up. Yes; Denver bopped their way past the Pats, and folks questioned just how good Brady really is.
Forget about it! Denver is for real, and "proving ourselves" was never the goal. The goal is the AFC West and a playoff berth. The Raiders know more about figure skating than football, and the Chiefs look like they just sold Manhattan for a few beads. That leaves the SD Chargers as the only threat to the Broncos and the playoffs, and this isn't the same team they were last year.
LaDainian Tomlinson at RB? How about the 32nd ranked running game in the NFL. ROLB Shawne Merriman? May never be the same player again after the knee injury. Missing the offensive center and the defense's nose tackle to injury? Priceless.
SD hasn't looked this shaken since the last earthquake. Piece of cake? No, not really. SD is at home on a Monday night, they still have Phillip Rivers, Chris Chambers, Antonio Gates, and Vincent Jackson. They are also coming off of a much needed bye week, which means rest for injuries and more time to game plan. This is not a game to get too comfortable with.
The SD Offense versus the DEN Defense
What happens when you take the worst running team in the NFL (SD avg per game - 53.8 yards) and match it with the 6th best running defense in the League?
SD has spent years relying on Tomlinson to carry the ball. Heck, the guy can run, catch, throw and block. He's the all-around, real deal of RBs. But this year, nursing a hurt ankle at age 30, Tomlinson is on track for his worst year ever. 1 TD, 1 fumble (lost), 3.5 yards per carry (his longest was only 13), 2 receptions (for a total of 1 yard), and a grand 70 yards to show for the season.
Here is what you need to know about the SD offense.
- The running game is bad. Real bad.
- The passing game is good. Real good. (295.5 yards per game - 2nd in the NFL).
- Rivers likes to throw deep.
- To throw deep, he needs time to let the receivers get deep.
- Denver's pass rush is monstrously good.
- SD's offensive line (from center to left tackle) isn't so hot.
- SD's running game isn't going to do much to keep Denver's safeties from the deep field.
What all of this means is that the Chargers have two choices in this game. First, they have to establish a running game. This seems highly unlikely, as the match-up is just too hard to overcome. The second option would be for Rivers to create short route threats to compliment a few deep balls here and there. Enter Antonio Gates.
As always, TE Gates is a favorite target of Rivers. Gates was such a threat, that Denver used to match Bailey against him. SD countered brilliantly by bringing in Chris Chambers (WR) from the Dolphins, giving Gates room to do his thing.
In my mind, SD has three threats in the air. Chambers, Vincent Jackson, and TE Gates. As they've done against other teams this year with threats at TE, Denver will attempt to neutralize the TEs indirectly. Instead of focusing on coverage, Denver will likely go after Rivers, forcing the Chargers to keep their TE in to block. Between CBs Champ Bailey and Andre' Goodman, and even Jack Williams (rising in his level of play) and rookie hot shot Alphonso Smith, Denver can cover the WR threat. If the ball gets too deep, legendary safety Brian Dawkins and safety Renaldo Hill (playing very well in his first year with Denver) should stop any deep threats.
Another quick note on the running game. SD is an odd duck, in that (unlike other teams) they prefer to run to the weak side on most plays. With the left side of the OL looking weak, this should limit LT or Darren Sproles.
SD offense - game plan
Can SD run against Denver? I don't think that they can. But if they don't at least make the effort, it can cause headaches for the passing game (and Rivers, who has been getting sacked quite a bit this year). Because SD has good depth at TE (and because they aren't so hot at the outside of the offensive line), and because they face a 3-4 defense (really a 5-2 in my opinion), SD should use a lot of 2 TE looks. To aid with the run, they should use twin TE looks (both TEs to the same side).
From this formation, they can attempt runs with extra protection to one side, or go into quick passes with those TEs. They can also set up screens for Darren Sproles, who is a major threat on STs returns and could be deadly in screen situations.
SD needs to have a credible running game, or at least a consistent, short passing game to set up the vertical passes that Rivers likes. He already faces an incredible Denver secondary, so he'll need to do everything he can to sell the short yardage game.
When passing long, Rivers will need to be in a shotgun formation (the QB further from scrimmage to buy time). The advantage for Rivers here is time to drop back and throw, but the disadvantage is that the defense will clamp down on each player lined up as a receiver. If the OL continues to play poorly, any sacks this far from scrimmage will be hard to overcome.
DEN Defense - game plan
It doesn't get old. Denver needs pressure, pressure, and more pressure. Denver's pressure and penetration is not only the reason that teams have a hard time passing against Denver, but it also causes major disruptions in the run game. With five players on the line (and with even the OLBs being true [former] DEs), Denver's defense presents pass rush and run disruption opportunities on every play. But the SD offense is particularly exposed. With the loss of center Nick Hardwick, the rest of the OL seems to be in chaos.
Denver can play man to man with the SD WRs with no problem, and leave the safeties back for over-coverage. The front five can penetrate, while the two true LBs (both leading the team in tackles) can zone the center for runs or passes over the middle.
The presence of sack-machine Elvis Dumervil is perhaps the biggest threat on the field for Denver's defense. SD will not stop him one on one, but a team can't afford to double him with four other defensive players right on the line.
The DEN Offense versus the SD Defense
What happens when the 27th run defense in the League (SD, giving up 151 yards a game) meets the 5th best run offense in the League (DEN, gaining 139 yards a game)?
Let's give Orton some credit. His QB rating is 97.4, which is slightly better than River's 90.6. Orton's only INT of the year was an end of half hail Mary throw. He played his first four games with Denver wearing a restrictive glove to protect an injured finger, and still performed like a pro. Folks call him a game manager (as if this is a derogatory term), but the correct title for Orton is "winner". Orton has a good arm (yes, the "noodle" moniker was bs). But Orton's best quality is intelligence. He's picked up a complex system very quickly, and adjusts to radical changes in game planning (and the play book) each week. So let's give the guy credit. And then....
Let's run the ball.
SD is hurting on both sides of the ball. Injuries have hurt this team, and the team is off to a slow start from many players who were considered to be play makers. But there is one threat on the field for SD that is a constant, and that is Rivers. To keep Rivers off the field, Denver should use their vaunted running game against a weak run defense. Orton is capable of beating the SD pass defense, and has a lot of weapons. SD, on the other hand, just released a safety on Wed (Clinton Hart), and there has been talk of benching CB Antonio Cromartie (a once rising player). Antoine Cason may be the answer for this team at CB. Meanwhile, Quentin Jammer will face either Brandon Marshall or Eddie Royal this week, leaving the rest of the SD DBs to deal with the other WR, plus Jabar Gaffney and Brandon Stokley (not to mention TE threats Daniel Graham and Tony Scheffler).
But at least there is potential for hope in the SD secondary. The SD defensive line has looked dreadful, and the LBs have looked ordinary. It could be the decimation of the SD D-line, or it could be the defection of D-line coach Wayne Nunnely from SD to Denver. But the weakness of the SD defense is the front seven, and Denver can run at it.
Buckhalter is back at practice, and should be ready for Monday. Moreno has been looking better and better. Why not score early, then just run the ball down the Chargers' throats? There's nothing like a good running game to take the other team's fans out of a game and to wear down the opposing team (notice how Denver has looked great in the second half? That's endurance conditioning).
DEN Offense - game plan
If there is a game to run the ball, this is it. Keep the other team's biggest threat (Rivers) off the field, and match up a very good running game against a terrible run defense. Focus on running the gut to allow Orton his signature screens and quick hitches to the edges of the field. Nothing fancy here, just good old fashioned smash mouth football.
But when we DO throw the ball, Orton should stick with his bread and butter plays. No need to take chances in this game; just make the high percentage, quick throws to keep the clock going and to limit INTs. Let playmakers like Marshall and Royal make the big plays after the short catch. Against a team that isn't tackling too well, screens with downfield blockers can be deadly.
SD Defense - game plan
This team hasn't proven that they can rush the passer, nor stop the run. They also face a credible air attack from Orton. This is not a good defense.
In such situations, you take away the big plays as best you can and hope that long drives by the opposition will result in a failure to convert or a turn over. SD has good CBs, and shouldn't "waste" them in zone. The CBs may be the best part of this defense. Man the CBs, and deep zone both safeties. Dedicate one LB to manning the Denver RB, and zone the remaing LBs. It is a simplistic plan, and not a good one. But SD doesn't seem to have many options here.
SD likes to strip the ball, but they need to focus on making sound tackles for this game. What they've been doing hasn't been working.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Match-ups
(Team with advantage is in bold and italics)
Denver Offense vs SD Defense
Points - 19.8 (22nd) vs Points - 25.5 (25th)
Yards - 376.8 (6th) vs Yards - 365.8 (26th)
Pass - 237.8 (15th) vs Pass - 214.8 (12th)
Rush - 139 (5th) vs Rush - 151 (27th)
* * *
Denver Defense vs SD Offense
Points - 8.6 (1st) vs 25.2 (10th)
Yards - 252.8 (2nd) vs 349.2 (10th)
Pass - 171.8 (5th) vs 295.5 (2nd)
Rush - 81 (6th) vs 53.8 (32nd)
In summary, SD has advantages in only two areas - passing, and stopping the pass. But those advantages are small in terms of ranking and yards. (Part of the pass stats for SD may be the last quarter of the PITT game, where PITT played prevent and gave up a lot of yards and 21 points). On the other hand, Denver's advantages in other categories are much wider.
Noteworthy is that SD is losing their average game - 25.2 to 25.5 (they have no room for error in their games). Meanwhile, Denver wins their average game 19.8 to 8.6
Denver clobbers SD in running the ball and in defending the run.
Keys to the Game
Denver -
- Make this a running game. Denver has a massive advantage running the ball and stopping the run. SD's only chance is Philip Rivers, and perhaps a major ST play. So...
- Don't allow Sproles (or anyone else) to be a difference maker on ST.
- And most of all - Pressure Rivers early, often, and hard.
San Diego -
- If you want your best weapon to have a chance, you had better protect Rivers. Good protection also means you can sneak Gates out to the flats.
- SD might not be able to stop the run. But they must keep it in check. Give up a few yards here and there, but don't give up a big play on the ground.
-
Win the turnover war. Orton may be "due" for an INT, but don't count on it. Instead, make sure you fall on anything a Denver RB or QB fumbles. You'll need those chances. Denver gets their yards in bits and pieces, and a turnover can be devastating. Don't miss any opportunity if a ball hits the ground.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
SD has several things going for them. A week of rest, an extra week of prep, a good QB, and home field on a national stage. Denver has a lights out defense, a solid running game, and a mistake free passing game.
While SD won a game against OAK, it was closer than a game against OAK should be. On the other hand, they played tough against PITT, and respectable against BAL in two losses. While they are injured and not playing great football, they look to me like a team that can jump up at any moment and reassert themselves. They have good players all over the team that just don't seem to playing to their potential.
Denver, on the other hand, has beaten good teams in CIN, DAL, and NE, while brushing off CLE and OAK. If anyone wants to question how good DAL and NE are, it is in part due to their losses against DEN. CIN looks like a very good team, and Denver won a game that either would have been a TD reception by the intended receiver or (because it was tipped) a TD reception by a heads up player.
I don't believe in "trap" games. If there is such a concept, it is a fan concept and not a coaching one. Any coach that thinks that any game can be overlooked deserves to lose every game he plays. McDaniels is not the kind of coach to overlook a team. He and DC Nolan know the stakes; this is a division game. So does SD, and I fully expect a team like SD (with their backs against the wall in the AFC West race) to come out swinging. In other words, expect SD to play like SD, and not like how they've played so far.
LT hasn't been LT, but count him out at your peril. Merriman may be hurt and weakened, but if he ever brings his "A game", this is the time. If SD loses this game, they'll probably have to win out the season to get a shot at a playoff spot.
And Denver is done with silencing critics. Those who still think the Broncos are a 3-13 team have been exposed, and only make themselves look more foolish for making excuses for Denver's opponents. Denver is now playing for a good seeding in the post season, and that makes this week's game the most important game they've played so far.
I think Denver is a different team from last year, from top to bottom. We have a QB that doesn't give away games, we have a defense that shuts down anything in their path, and we have a coaching staff that gets the best out of their players week in and out. SD is also different. They were an 8-8 team last year, but cracks seem to be developing further. If SD is going to make a run at glory, this is the game of the season.
For me, I'll take Denver. The match-ups seem to favor Denver strongly, but I won't pick Denver to win big quite yet. I expect a fully loaded and prepared SD team for Monday Night Football, and I expect that there will be big plays both ways. I expect a great game that may overshadow the Saints / Giants game in terms of good play. I expect a memorable game.
Most of all, I expect 6-0 going into the bye.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I knew Denver would be a better team this year. I predicted an 8-8 record, but wrote that Denver would play much better, win or lose. I figured Denver would beat Cincy and CLE, and figured we should win one or two against OAK (nice to beat OAK in OAK). DAL was a toss-up to me during the offseason, but I thought we had a fair shot. Before the season, NE would have been a loss in my book. By the time the game came up, I called it "too close to call". I was right - the game went into overtime.
It is past time to look at what I think of the games going forward, so here it is.
SD - In the reloading season I would have called this 50/50. I think we win in SD.
BAL - Before the season - loss. Now, tough call.
PITT - Before the season - loss to SB champs. Now - win (we can exploit that OL).
WAS - Before - toss up; leans win. Now - win.
SD - Likely win.
NYG - We might be able to go toe to toe. If we do, we are (gasp!) SB contenders. For now, let's say a potential loss.
KC - Win
INDY - Along with NYG, our toughest game on the schedule.
OAK - I'm really trying hard not to laugh out loud.
PHI - This could be a tougher game than we expect.
KC - If we are in the playoffs, we might rest players at this point.
I'll say that at this point our basement should be 10 to 11 games, with 11 to 12 likely. 13 (are you listening Mike Clark?) is a real possibility. More importantly, a post season spot is probable.
Forget about "power rankings" for a moment, and consider the official rankings. According to the NFL's rankings (based on games won and official tie breaks), this is how the top six teams rank -
OFFICIAL NFL TEAM RANKS
1) Your Denver Broncos
2) Colts
3) Vikings
4) Saints
5) Giants
6) Bengals
We've beat number 6, and we still have number 5 and number 2 to go. (By the way, 9-PHI, 10-BAL, 11-DAL, 12-NE, 14 PITT).
We've played, and have left to play, teams in the top half of the League right now. Any wins we get are well-deserved, and every game is good preparation for the post season. Playoffs? PLAYOFFS? That's right Mora, I said it. Denver is going to the playoffs this year. McDaniels is not a coach that allows late season collapses. I'm calling it. Denver qualifies.
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Seems like the Chargers..
..have to get a lot of things right, that they have been having trouble, with in order to win this game. I would imagine that will end up confusing the team and put to much pressure on them in to many areas for them to overcome a Denver team that honestly just needs to continue doing what is has done so far this season.
by HorseStance on Oct 16, 2009 11:10 AM MDT reply actions 1 recs
do you like the wildcat then?
or rather the “wildhorses”, since SD’s front 7 is so suspect, giving the runningback one more blocker and more time and distance to find holes seems like it could potentially be extremely effective.
Oh great point dude..
.. please HT could you do a break down of what the ‘wild horse’ is and how it helps you get an advantage over the opposing team? The commentators kept saying it but i really didn’t fully understand it.. i guess i’m still in the process of learning this game.. but a MHR-U would really help me!
by HorseStance on Oct 16, 2009 11:23 AM MDT up reply actions
1-0
As you say, the coaches know how important this game is. We are only 1-0 in division games. This game is HUGE. I agree that the Broncos win this game. But not by a blowout as some are predicting. Mainly because we should run the ball all day and run the clock out as soon as possible. The dolts passing game will probably score a couple of touchdowns and a field goal. I predict 27-17 Broncos.
1-0 in division: great point Endzone
We have to take care of business in the division. I have confidence that we are the better team, but because it is our toughest division rival, I know that there will be moments where my stomach just goes into knots.
"Take what you can. Give nothing back!"
by Colorado_Kitten on Oct 16, 2009 11:53 AM MDT up reply actions
Interesting points.
1) We are only 1-0 in the division. True. But Oak and KC look so awful, that SD seems to be the key game. If we beat them in SD on a Monday night, that’s HUGE!
2) I’m unsure if the game will be close or not. One reason to think it should be close is that is how I think we should play it (clock and ball control). On the other hand, there are two reasons to think blowout.
First, I’m having a hard time finding math-ups that favor SD. All of their best advantages are intangibles (homefield, motivation, etc).
Second, I’m wondering if McDaniels might want to send a message (ala Belechick) to the League – “We’re here to beat down our division, and anyone who gets in our way”. We’re not under the radar anymore, and a convincing win to pysch other teams might be worth a shot.
"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe
by Steve Nichols on Oct 16, 2009 1:40 PM MDT up reply actions
I'll second that!
No better way to go into your bye than 6-0 after marching into your divisional foes house and humiliating them on national TV.
"Take what you can. Give nothing back!"
by Colorado_Kitten on Oct 16, 2009 2:08 PM MDT up reply actions
100% agreed coach....Orton and Co were just warming up for this game...dominate division we are in play offs....
with possibly a week off!
Great article as always HT!
Those that cant coach, compete!
Failing to plan is planning to fail.
All I want is 53 Rod Smiths. Is that asking too much????
"Peyton Hillis didn’t rip the sleeves off his jersey, they flew off out of fear."
Calijoefornia.
Awesome as Always!!
What is the influence on the game if SD uses Michael Bennett as the lead RB??
Also, the real danger of D Sproles is off of screens and on the Draw play. He was very effective on the draw play against Baltimore except for the last play of the SD drive in the Red Zone – where the Baltimore defender (Lewis?) spied out the play and made a tackle in the backfield to kill the SD drive.
If Rivers can get the passing game going, it will force Denver to be more aggressive and put more people in the pass rush, and unfortunately open up the Denver D to Sproles specialties of draws and screens.
I expect a toss up game unless Orton can get the offense firing on all cylinders!
To accomplish great things, we must not only act, but also DREAM; not only plan, but also BELIEVE.
Here is why Sproles is dangerous in returns...
The screen play is the one type of play that looks (to the receiver) almost exactly like the dynamics of a punt return. Sproles excels in both.
Bennetts effect – If LT is not his old self, Bennett SHOULD get the go ahead. LT’s biggest contribution is that he is a rare breed – someone that can do it all (even throwing!)
Even if Bennett starts, he is much less to gameplan for. I am more worried about LT starting and playing like his old self.
"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe
by Steve Nichols on Oct 16, 2009 1:44 PM MDT up reply actions
I don't think Bennett will do much
and that is because SD doesn’t use him. They got him last year, was inactive for every regular season game, and has been used very little this year. Monday may change, however I don’t count on it. They got him last year so we wouldn’t get him….and that’s it.
2009 NBA Champions L.A Lakers
2009 NBA Finals MVP Kobe Bryant
Agreed.
"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe
by Steve Nichols on Oct 17, 2009 12:33 PM MDT up reply actions
since when is our pass rush monstrously good? In my mind it seems average at best considering we have to blitz to get any pressure at all
A truth can only be expressed and enveloped in words if it is one-sided. Everything that is thought and expressed in words is one-sided, only half the truth; it all lacks totality, completeness, unity.
I respectfuly disagree.
We haven’t really blitzed much this season, and we’ve still generated a lot of pressure. In fact, one of our players is tied for the League lead in sacks.
I think a lot of our high profile sacks have been blitzes, but our overall pressue has been steady, and I’m not seeing a lot of extra players driving in. NE picked up the rush pretty well, but they certainly noticed the absence of one of their tackles too.
Just my opinion.
"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe
by Steve Nichols on Oct 16, 2009 1:49 PM MDT up reply actions
perhaps it is a difference in what my opinion of a blitz is — if we have 5 people up on the line, I don’t consider that “normal” when generating pressure, but more of a blitz. We have not gotten much pressure at all with a 3 man front. Would you agree or disagree with that statement?
A truth can only be expressed and enveloped in words if it is one-sided. Everything that is thought and expressed in words is one-sided, only half the truth; it all lacks totality, completeness, unity.
It's pretty rare for anyone to generate pressure with a 3 man rush.
It’s a dare for the Quarterback to find the hole.
right — but can you really consider getting pressure using 5 “monstrously good” ?
A truth can only be expressed and enveloped in words if it is one-sided. Everything that is thought and expressed in words is one-sided, only half the truth; it all lacks totality, completeness, unity.
When I say monstrously good pressure...
…I mean that our pressure is great, whether we call it rush or blitz. Teams have to account for pressure on their QBs against Denver. It can keep a TE like Whitten in to block, and cause problems for teams like SD that prefer NOT to keep RBs in to block. Much of the time, these rushes or blitzes are only attempts to penetrate a gap to pull a lineman or to demand a double team, but they get more success than intended and a player actualy gets through.
The semantics are a marginal issue. Good coaches and fans will disagree on everything from what defines a blitz (to me, anything not from scrimmage, to others – anything over 4) to what defines a 3-4 (to me, 3 on the line, to others – any base other than a 4-3).
"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe
by Steve Nichols on Oct 16, 2009 2:52 PM MDT up reply actions
Don't we normally rush four men?
I don’t consider that a bltiz, just a four-man rush with the offense not knowing who the fourth man is going to be.
"Surprised to see you, Captain, though pleased." — from Star Trek episode Space Seed.
Yes.
"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe
by Steve Nichols on Oct 17, 2009 12:34 PM MDT up reply actions
I 'm no expert, but I wonder...
…how much of San Diego’s low ratiing in rushing has to do with having to throw the ball more to come from behind, especially v. Pittsburg?
If this be Hell, let us make the most of it!
they
did fall behind early against pitt, but overall this season they havent been able to run the ball. I feel it has something to do with no true FB, and their center (Hrdwick) has been out all season. Plus they are beat up on the OL
somethings wrong, Trying to conquer these fears i thought were gone. And it's been so long, I'm dying to live in a world i don't belong
by broncfanstuckinsd on Oct 16, 2009 12:17 PM MDT up reply actions
Thanks, broncfan
If this be Hell, let us make the most of it!
by Trinidad Jack on Oct 16, 2009 12:39 PM MDT up reply actions
You raise a good point Counsel.
I agree with BFSiSD. A look at the runs that SD HAS had shows a terrible deterioration. The loss of Hardwick is a big part of it, but LT isn’t even hitting the edges well.
"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe
by Steve Nichols on Oct 16, 2009 1:51 PM MDT up reply actions
also
if you look at their game films, their O-Line isn’t getting much of a push coming out of the 3-point stance. Their linemen are often still at the line of scrimmage when the RB gets there. On several of their running plays versus Miami, you can see how the o-line failed to maintain their blocks and as a result were behind the d-linemen when the RB reached the “hole” that was supposed to be there.
"The best defense is a good offense. Or is it the other way around." Wolverine
Pray for the best, prepare for the worst, and know you will come down somewhere between the two.
Livin' in La La Land and Lovin' It
by Brian Shrout on Oct 16, 2009 3:43 PM MDT up reply actions
Lines
I think Denver’s OL is much better than SD DL and Denver’s Dl much better than SD OL. That combination is hard for any team to overcome. I try to listen as to SD being a worthy foe but I just can’t see it. Denver 27 SD 7.
... if you have a belief, you will tend to find things that support it. But if you have a prejudice, you’ll move heaven and earth to maintain it. BroncoBear
Agreed. We look much better in both trench scenarios...
…hands down.
"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe
by Steve Nichols on Oct 16, 2009 1:52 PM MDT up reply actions
Great Analysis
I’m not sure K.C. had Manhatten to sell, but they sure do seem to be wondering whether the shiny beads they acquired in the offseason will ever help them win a game. Thakns for the great read.
lol
I’ve been “one upped”!
Thanks for the kind words too.
"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe
by Steve Nichols on Oct 16, 2009 1:53 PM MDT up reply actions
HT how I use your post
I listen to what people have to say all week. I look into stats and past games. In doing this I draw my own conclusions. Then, I compare them with what you say. I make my comments and you and others comment. I wait until the game and see how things play out. This is how I learn.
I thank you for being willing to share your wisdom and insight. This is my favorite post of the week and is always recommended.
... if you have a belief, you will tend to find things that support it. But if you have a prejudice, you’ll move heaven and earth to maintain it. BroncoBear
by 3nS on Oct 16, 2009 12:06 PM MDT reply actions 1 recs
Thanks 3nS
And pay a LOT of attention to the comments. Sometimes I miss something entirely, and sometimes someone will explain something much better than I did.
I’m not trying to predict things so much (like with the keys to the game), as much as giving my take on what I see and what I think. Of course, those things are just opinions. A lot of very sharp fans (not all of whom have coached) have watched pro ball for a lot of years, and have terrific insight. I’ll take myself actually coaching a team, but as far as making observations about what might happen or what to watch for, there are many good opinions out there.
Thanks for giving my opinions a good reading, and all of the best to you!
"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe
by Steve Nichols on Oct 16, 2009 1:56 PM MDT up reply actions
Thanks, as always, for the insight, HT!
One player that I would like to hear you discuss is Marcus Thomas. I’ve heard that he rotates in at NT in passing downs. Is this correct?
Do you see him getting an expanded role in this game, due to the reduced threat of the SD run game? I had always heard that he was a disruptive, penetrating DT in the 4-3, and I wonder how that translates to the NT position, especially on passing downs.
Thanks again!
- Jason
Horton is WIN - HORVIL TIKI
Marcus Thomas.
In a five man front, Thomas can really play anywhere (particulary NT or DG, or if you call our base formation a 3-4: NT or DE). He looks very good to me, and he may not get a lot of credit when he DOES come in because he plugs his gap and gives the credit to another player getting the tackle or sack. I think he’s a keeper, and will continue to improve.
"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe
by Steve Nichols on Oct 16, 2009 2:00 PM MDT up reply actions
Thanks for the reply, HT!
So it sounds like he’s definitely playing more as an ‘occupier’ than as a ‘penetrator’.
I’m curious about how difficult the transition can be for a player to move to the unselfish, gap-plugger role after getting some glory as a pass-rushing DT, both in the technical sense and psychologically.
Any thoughts?
- Jason
Horton is WIN - HORVIL TIKI
It depends on what you mean by "gap plugger".
In a 1 gap defense, Thomas is charged with trying to get through a gap. The offense should either put one or two O-linemen on him to stop him. This gives another player the glory. But it isn’t because the one gapper is trying to just “occupy the gap”. It is his threat of pentration that causes the gap to be occupied and blocked off in the first place. He still has a shot at glory, and franky, a better shot than he would if he was in a 2 gap scheme.
The problem is that once a one gap guy hits his gap and gets blocked, the opposing runner will likely not choose that gap. He now runs to an open gap where he gets tackled by a LB instead of a DLman. (This is why Williams and Davis lead the Broncos in tackles).
In a 2 gap scheme, the player mans an OLman, then chooses which gap to take based on 1) leverage against the OLman and 2) what the RB looks like he is going to do.
Technicaly, fast, agile guys (and smaller guys, like Doom) are one gappers. Big guys are two gappers (and they also have to be smart – reading the RB and the play).
It is physical easier to go from two gap to one gap. You may not be as fast as the smaller guys, but you can use your size to demand double teams each time you hit your your gap. It is very hard to move from one gap to two gap, because if you aren’t big enough, you start with a major disadvantage.
Psychologically, there are benefits and drawbacks of each position. A good coach knows which of these variables to emphasize to a player to get the most out of him.
"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe
by Steve Nichols on Oct 16, 2009 3:01 PM MDT up reply actions 9 recs
This comment needs to turn green people!
Character may be manifested in the great moments but it is made in the small ones -- Philip Brooks
Aww shucks guys.
lol
"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe
by Steve Nichols on Oct 16, 2009 5:05 PM MDT up reply actions
Is it me or...
Is it me or do the Charger players sound arrogant when talking about the Broncos? Almost scoff at the idea that they won’t automatically win this game.
While the Bronco players sound humble and totally focused.
Is it just me or is anyone else getting the same kind of vibes from each team? I could just be a homer, but its hard not to see the difference in the quotes.
Verbose in style, dispersion of thought, procrastination in life.
At first, I thought you were describing charger fans, rather than players. I was like “right on!”, but then I realized you were talking about players. Yeah, I did notice some nonsense from them (especially Merriman) that sounded like unfounded arrogance. I guess laying an epic blowout on a team to win the division title will do that to you.
by BroncosBassist on Oct 16, 2009 12:27 PM MDT up reply actions
It's not just you.
But frankly, look at their frame of reference. We’ve been whipping boys of theirs for a few years now. They look at the Hochuli game last year and see a stolen SD win, and they look at the DEN-SD game at the end of the season as complete ‘ownage" of the Broncos. That creates a bit of a bias I’m sure. Couple that with some handy excuses for their crappy play and recent decline, and you get the type of comments we’re seeing.
In all honesty, I’m glad that they’ve come out like that. It will make it all the more enjoyable when we take this game from them.
Pride goes before the fall and all of that…
- Jason
Horton is WIN - HORVIL TIKI
It isn't just you
The SD Union Trib calls them “quietly confident.” The Chargers know this isn’t the same team as last year, but they definitely come across as a little cocky and that the “real” charger team will show up.
quiet confidence is not how the Charger players are acting in their comments...lol
Look at the responses to the Bronco players and I see a quiet confidence…the Chargers are like an aristocrat that has sqaundered its wealth and is still pretending it is still part of the upper class of society…
Let’s call the Broncos the debt collectors…the time has come Duke of Doltendy to pay your bills. Welcome to the poor house!
Verbose in style, dispersion of thought, procrastination in life.
by Tim Lynch on Oct 16, 2009 1:23 PM MDT up reply actions 4 recs
Awesome
the Chargers are like an aristocrat that has sqaundered its wealth and is still pretending it is still part of the upper class of society…
I couldn’t even dream to come up with something like that
by T.Dot_Bronco on Oct 16, 2009 2:03 PM MDT up reply actions
Well if they overlook us like the MSM does,
then they will be in for a surprise.
2009 NBA Champions L.A Lakers
2009 NBA Finals MVP Kobe Bryant
I don't think the Chargers players are being smug at all.
I haven’t noticed it anyway.
But our guys are going about there business like elite professionals. They aren’t getting carried away with wins, they give credit to others, and they remain focused on the job.
I’ve noticed a complete change to the attitudes this year. These guys have the kind of approach in their mindset that champions have. Cool under pressure, confident without smugness, and selfless.
"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe
by Steve Nichols on Oct 16, 2009 2:03 PM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
LEADERSHIP!!!!
From Mr. B to McD and Nolan, and into the lockerroom…They are learning how to play and act like Champions so when the opportunity is right there in front of them, they will be ready to “TAKE IT”
by BroncoSense72 on Oct 17, 2009 7:18 AM MDT up reply actions
5-2 vs 3-4
HT, I’ve been waiting all week for Chalk Talk to ask you this! I was interested in your point that the 5-2 will take away what’s left of SD’s running game as well as put pressure on Rivers, which seems sound. Please correct me if I’m wrong, but it’s also my impression that the 5-2’s weaknesses are around the edge and over the middle, and SD might be able to take advantage of the 5-2 with Sproles and Gates. Do you see any advantage to going to a more traditional 3-4 at times, and possibly blitzing an LB in passing situations?
related question
If SD manages to get a perimeter running game going (either Sproles bouncing wide or setting up screens effectively), do you think they might roll Rivers out on bootlegs to buy time for downfield threats? Are we set up schematically to handle that scenario?
Conversation nonstarters: hoping McDaniels fails, comparing Bears to Broncos, Cutler to Orton, apples to oranges, and casual drinkers to Raiders fans.
by broncosmontana on Oct 16, 2009 1:15 PM MDT up reply actions
And Roethlesperger likes his bootlegs, too, right?
Conversation nonstarters: hoping McDaniels fails, comparing Bears to Broncos, Cutler to Orton, apples to oranges, and casual drinkers to Raiders fans.
by broncosmontana on Oct 16, 2009 1:16 PM MDT up reply actions
It is early for me to write about PITT...
…but I’ll give you an early peek.
One thing I’ve noticed about PITT is terrible OL play. Before the season, the SB champ Steelers bothered me. There are still teams that concern me, but I like the match-up against PITT already. Yes, Big Ben can throw and move (and he’ll need to move with that OL of his). But I think PITT has a hard time stopping our pressure.
"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe
by Steve Nichols on Oct 16, 2009 2:14 PM MDT up reply actions
Yes, SD could do that.
Denver’s bootleg counter out of the 5-2 is excellent outside pressure. A bootleg QB takes a major chance of rolling right into a rushing DE/OLB. Don’t expect any naked (no blocker) bootlegs from Rivers, but he may try a few standard bootlegs to set up inside runs.
The perimeter run may still be tough for SD. They haven’t pulled it off against lesser defenses, and Denver (whether in a 3-4 or 5-2) has a wide enough look that teams shouldn’t challenge the edges too much.
"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe
by Steve Nichols on Oct 16, 2009 2:12 PM MDT up reply actions
Thanks HT
I learn so much from you every time out. Really looking forward to your single-wing and 4-4 thoughts next time around.
Conversation nonstarters: hoping McDaniels fails, comparing Bears to Broncos, Cutler to Orton, apples to oranges, and casual drinkers to Raiders fans.
by broncosmontana on Oct 16, 2009 5:06 PM MDT up reply actions
HT has the answers
But we should not presume that every defensive play is a 5-2. Reviewing the games thus far leads me to believe that multiple sets are being used and players are not always in their original starting positions (eg Doom on strongside vs weakside). I’ve seen traditional 3-4;s and 4-3’s this season. The 5-2 is only weak on the edges if the secondary is not up to the task of run/pass coverage. Haggan and Williams are doing outstanding work at ILB (the primary “weak” points for an edge). The advantage of a 5-2 is that it is good at both run defense and pass blitzing. Our outstanding secondary is scary good at both pass and run defense.
I read your comment only after I wrote mine.
You hit the nail on the head. Great minds think alike.
We’ll be changing formations, moving guys around before the snap (we do a LOT of that, I’ve noticed), and (of course) bring top notch pressure out of the 5-2 look.
"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe
by Steve Nichols on Oct 16, 2009 2:16 PM MDT up reply actions
Yes.
Denver changes to 4-2 and traditional 3-4 looks often, so that a team can’t just counter one formation. Denver does a lot of disguises, and throws a lot of false looks at offenses.
Denver can counter passes to the seams by either dropping an unexpected player into zone, changing a player’s position at the last moment (we’ve been doing that a lot), and just plain pressuring the QB from the big front look.
As for the middle, I think Denver’s 5-2 look already gives excellent center coverage, so that shouldn’t be an issue.
(Don’t wait all week my friend. I have an e-mail, and even if it takes a few days, I eventually get to every mail).
"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe
by Steve Nichols on Oct 16, 2009 2:08 PM MDT up reply actions
That description gave me this vision
of opposing QBs standing there with all these hyphenated numbers flying by their heads as they try to read the defense.
And before they know it, the flying numbers resolve into 92 and 20!
XD
Conversation nonstarters: hoping McDaniels fails, comparing Bears to Broncos, Cutler to Orton, apples to oranges, and casual drinkers to Raiders fans.
by broncosmontana on Oct 16, 2009 5:08 PM MDT up reply actions
lol
The neat thing about the pro level is how FAST it goes. I can read an offense or a defense pretty well at the HS level (and at an elite HS level too). I didn’t expect my players to read as well as I did, since they were focused on one aspect of the game, and were dealing with stress (catching your breath, pain, being nervous about getting things right, etc).
But when I watch a pro game, I can recognize a lot of what is gong on, but some of the complexity that the coaches throw out confuse not only me (down at the HS level) but even seasoned pro players and opposing coaches. Take the wildhorse ploy by McD to read the defense, or the group of players on the sideline that “might or might not” come in to substitute. I asked myself during the game, “Would I have seen that coming? Even if I had, how would I have adjusted at game speed?” The answers were “No” and “I would have gotten destroyed”.
It is amazing to watch the pro coaches at work, but the McD vs Belichick battle was (sorry for the worn cliche’) a real chess match. It was Harlem Globetrotter coaching at its finest, and a pleasure to watch.
"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe
by Steve Nichols on Oct 16, 2009 5:16 PM MDT up reply actions
Absolutely!
"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe
by Steve Nichols on Oct 16, 2009 6:55 PM MDT up reply actions
Why I'm not worried
Kyle Orton interview with Peter King after the Patriot game:
“It was a big win” Orton said, “but what I liked was we prepared like we prepare for any game, like it was any other week. Josh does a good job of that. They create a lot of problems for an offense, and we spent the whole week on that, not on any of the stuff surrounding the game. We put a plan together this week to try to beat New England, which is different from the other game plans we’ve had, and I’m sure this coming week will be no different. That’s the way we play, the way we prepare.”
What I get out of this is that Kyle is as stoked about preparing to beat a team as he is in winning the game. This week they have a whole extra day. San Diego should be worried.
I also read that other players like Orton's attitude during the game.
He wants the ball, and believes he can move it down the field. When we were backed up on the 2 yards line, he didn’t seem to care. He was mentaly prepared to do what needed to be done, and it wore off on the other guys.
My favorite Orton trait is his intelligence. But I’m starting to like his leadership as much or more.
"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe
by Steve Nichols on Oct 16, 2009 2:18 PM MDT up reply actions
intellegence and leadership
completely agree, HT. He’s also got an amazing amount of calm and confidence in any situation that also rubs off on the other guys. Elway was right that Orton will be perfect in this system.
"Take what you can. Give nothing back!"
by Colorado_Kitten on Oct 16, 2009 2:36 PM MDT up reply actions
More on Orton - I knew he didn't throw interceptions, but check this out...
His thoughts before the New England game about the 3 INTS he threw in the San Francisco preseason game :
“I just thought about that this week” Orton said “And I actually took that as a positive. I’m serious. There was a lot of doubt about me locally, but not from the coach. It was great to have a game like that and have the coach back me the way he did, with no reservations. That’s the first time in my career that ever happened to me. I know my game. I’m not a turnover guy. Now I had a coach who knew I wasn’t either.”
I’m speechless.
Kudos to Orton...
..but MUCH kudos to Coach. Knowing to encourage a guy having a rough game can pay off in the long run.
"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe
by Steve Nichols on Oct 16, 2009 5:07 PM MDT up reply actions
Orton is smart enough to run McDaniels' offense
and also smart enough to realize, from day one, what a fantastic career break the trade was for him. One of the columnists, maybe even two, made a point of saying, at the time of the trade, McDaniels really likes Orton. McDaniels literally dangled Cutler as bait, then chose, from all the teams that took the bait, the quarterback he most wanted. Orton is smart, as well as a really good clutch player—much better than Cutler—and McDaniels was the one head coach most capable of recognizing and utilizing Orton’s abilities, which were mostly invisible to Chicago’s coaching staff. Orton was wasted on Chicago’s coaches, because they wouldn’t have known how to use his abilties even if they’d known he had them. Cutler’s just right for them, in a sense is just what they deserve. Orton will be much more, now that he has a coach who realizes who he’s got, and in fact went out of his way to get him. I predict it won’t be long before analysts will regularly be using “Orton” and “brilliant” in the same sentence. Orton knows he didn’t have a coach capable of appreciating him before, and that he does now. That’s got to be a nice feeling. McDaniels “rebuilt” the quarterback position as rapidly as he did the rest of the team. The Denver offense is going to be good for years to come because McDaniels, right off the bat, got his man.
"Surprised to see you, Captain, though pleased." — from Star Trek episode Space Seed.
by spock on Oct 16, 2009 7:39 PM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
I don't know if he "literaly" dangled him as bait.
That’s evokes a gross picture in my mind.
lol
But seriously, what I love is that Orton has been steady with the glove, and isn’t afraid to throw the ball away. With the glove off, he drove the length of the field twice against the PATRIOTS. Imagine how much better he has the time to get to. Wow!
"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe
by Steve Nichols on Oct 17, 2009 12:38 PM MDT up reply actions
That is the most comfortable I have seen a QB in the endzone
than I have seen in quite some time, well other than Brady, Manning etc……
2009 NBA Champions L.A Lakers
2009 NBA Finals MVP Kobe Bryant
Thank YOU!
"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe
by Steve Nichols on Oct 16, 2009 2:18 PM MDT up reply actions
Question for HT
I have a question this week that may or may not have been asked in the comment section, but I am work and don’t have a lot of time.
Why didn’t you address the dreaded Sproles screen pass in your Chalk Talk? If there is one glaring weakness in our D is the early screen pass. We usually adjust to them, but they appear to get burned by them early in games. Sproles can take it the distance out of the screen pass, which is why I am so worried about that aspect of it.
Verbose in style, dispersion of thought, procrastination in life.
Well actualy, I did.
They can also set up screens for Darren Sproles, who is a major threat on STs returns and could be deadly in screen situations.
The reason Sproles excels in the screen is that the screen play is the one play in the playbook that looks most like a punt or kick return (from the vantage of the receiver).
We’ll counter by either pressuring the QB overall (our bread and butter), or having an OLB/DE in place to disrupt the play in the backfield. Penetration on the edges is a great way to disrupt a screen. If Sproles DOES get the ball, and gets moving, we can be thankful that our new DC keeps both SAFs back to stop this kind of thing.
"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe
by Steve Nichols on Oct 16, 2009 2:23 PM MDT up reply actions
and Dawkins will meld himself with the universe if thats what it takes to tackle Sproles before he reaches the endzone - just like he did vs the Cowboys
"Take what you can. Give nothing back!"
by Colorado_Kitten on Oct 16, 2009 2:38 PM MDT up reply actions
This may sound like an exaggeration...
…but here goes:
If Sproles gets a real clean breakaway to the endzone, and IF for some reason Dawkins can’t be in position to make the play, I wouldn’t doubt it if Nolen doesn’t send Dawkins into the past to take out Sproles’ mother before Sproles is even born.
It sounds harsh, but Dawkins is that good.
Just sayin’.
: )
"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe
by Steve Nichols on Oct 16, 2009 3:04 PM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
That's "Chuck Norris" good
Or “Steven Segal” good.
Verbose in style, dispersion of thought, procrastination in life.
that's YODA good
Character may be manifested in the great moments but it is made in the small ones -- Philip Brooks
That's BDAWK good ; )
Conversation nonstarters: hoping McDaniels fails, comparing Bears to Broncos, Cutler to Orton, apples to oranges, and casual drinkers to Raiders fans.
by broncosmontana on Oct 16, 2009 5:03 PM MDT up reply actions
Screen
Every time a team busted a huge gain on a screen pass against us I was all excited because we had man coverage against the RB, but the problem then turns into, you have three guys who are paid millions to block that that one guy has to get through. We are a very sound tackling team this year but I will go into this game with fear in my heart every time Sproles is on the field.
I love that we adjust so quickly, but I would rather not give up anything on the first attempt so they abandon it early.
I look at this matchup and I see that we walk away with a W, but the only thing that may mess that up is mistakes on ST and big arm Rivers lucky breaks…
Another consideration.
The screen has become the Denver signature play (like the bootleg used to be). Our defense practices against it constantly.
"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe
by Steve Nichols on Oct 16, 2009 3:05 PM MDT up reply actions
Completely Off the Subject, but this was awesome!!!
http://www.cbs4denver.com/video/?id=63209@kcnc.dayport.com
Vic and Gary spoof a Coor’s Commercial with McDaniels! Not sure how long it will be up, so I thought I would post it a few places.
"So tell me what happened."
"Well, the last thing I remember is seeing this flash of Blue and Orange and the #22... then everything just went black..."
by HillisRanUover on Oct 16, 2009 1:31 PM MDT reply actions 3 recs
REC'D
Do us all a favor, and post this as a “fanshot video”. I’m not going to steal the idea, but if you make it a fanshot, I’ll move it to the front page. It’s that nice!
"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe
by Steve Nichols on Oct 16, 2009 2:25 PM MDT up reply actions
I already posted it there, however I don't believe Channel 4 makes their vid's "embed"-able...
"So tell me what happened."
"Well, the last thing I remember is seeing this flash of Blue and Orange and the #22... then everything just went black..."
by HillisRanUover on Oct 16, 2009 2:52 PM MDT up reply actions
Done!
"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe
by Steve Nichols on Oct 16, 2009 3:07 PM MDT up reply actions
lol!
seriously…I laughed out loud. Put that suckah up in a fan post! Everyone needs to see it! Haha! made my afternoon!
"Take what you can. Give nothing back!"
by Colorado_Kitten on Oct 16, 2009 2:40 PM MDT up reply actions
Done.
Front page.
"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe
by Steve Nichols on Oct 16, 2009 3:08 PM MDT up reply actions
Brilliant HT
Character may be manifested in the great moments but it is made in the small ones -- Philip Brooks
Thank you Kap.
"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe
by Steve Nichols on Oct 16, 2009 2:26 PM MDT up reply actions
You're most welcome
"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe
by Steve Nichols on Oct 16, 2009 2:26 PM MDT up reply actions
with there was too many fingers crossed to vote
wow…this has been totally a wild time…its almost better
MHR...and proud of it!
5 wins will do that!
Imagine going into the bye with 6!
"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe
by Steve Nichols on Oct 16, 2009 2:26 PM MDT up reply actions
Feels like a dream
and I’m really hoping nobody’s wake me up.
Conversation nonstarters: hoping McDaniels fails, comparing Bears to Broncos, Cutler to Orton, apples to oranges, and casual drinkers to Raiders fans.
by broncosmontana on Oct 16, 2009 5:05 PM MDT up reply actions
Imagine five....
…and well six is, like, one whole number better!
And then of course, there’s seven after that. (Denver had 13 in a row leading up to SB 33. The last games they were resting guys).
"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe
by Steve Nichols on Oct 17, 2009 12:40 PM MDT up reply actions
Just trying to keep up with your stuff!
Get well soon, and take care of yourself.
"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe
by Steve Nichols on Oct 16, 2009 5:18 PM MDT up reply actions
What do you think McD learned from last year's 30 - 10 whuppin?
The Patriots had a tough time in week 6 in 2008. In your view what are some key differences between last year’s prime time week 6 matchup and this year vs. San Diego?
This may surprise you...
…but I don’t think it is an issue for McD to study at all.
Denver has some things in common with NE, but more in terms of philosphy for managment and coaching than actual systems used by the offense or defense. In that respect, Denver and NE are two different teams, and SD would play last year’s NE team differently than this year’s DEN team.
I think McD will study the SD systems, players, and tendancies (as well as strengths and weaknesses of same), but I don’t think the SD/NE game presents much more info than SD vs any other team.
As this year’s Den team is radicaly different (in terms of players and systems), I think the SD coaches have less material to study than Den does. They have the extra week, but less to go on. Just my guess.
"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe
by Steve Nichols on Oct 16, 2009 6:04 PM MDT up reply actions
Sharpe eyes
So what is Shannon Sharpe thinking in picking the Chargers to win? I agree with most of the comments about SD’s weaknesses and the Broncos ability to take advantage. I also think the Broncos will win. But I just wonder what Sharpe is thinking. Or maybe he isn’t thinking.
I can't speak for Shannon.
He has a lot of teams to look at in his new job, and I can understand that. Of course, he has played against SD, and has a lot of respect for them. This Denver team is a totaly different animal from the last few years, and SD seems to be in the third year of a slow decline.
What I love is watching Rod Smith telling Dukes that he looks at our schedule, and sees Denver winning the first five games. I saw us winning 3 for sure, probably 4 before the season started. Dukes was stunned, and thought Rod was out of his mind.
I love Smith more and more whenever I watch him speak. He should be coaching, teaching, or running for office. He’s too good to be on a sports network.
"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe
by Steve Nichols on Oct 16, 2009 7:00 PM MDT up reply actions
Another Good Post HT!
Where is Shannon’s head with predicting SD over his own Broncos?
I believe you hit the nail on the head. He played against SD and how many games did they play the spoiler or just outright beat our a$$es?
AFC West Teams love to beat Denver. This game will be close with so much on the line for SD and also our team showing some respect for the older Bronco Fans who know it is never a Cake Walk..
Coach, I am Hurt, Not Dead - Remember the Titans
SD won't take this game lying down.
They’ve had an extra week to get motivated, and they know this game means a lot. If we win close, it is because SD played hard, and if we win big it is because we decided to send a message. If SD wins, it is because they played their best and deserved the game.
"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe
by Steve Nichols on Oct 17, 2009 12:43 PM MDT up reply actions
What does Buck do to the wild hourse?
Could it mimic miami with their amazing duo. Who would take the snap? Moreno or Buck? how is orton’s blocking … ha.
The best use of the wildcat, or any single wing variant, is as either a surprise factor or to probe a defense for reads.
Than this quote hit me in the head. Here is to a nice smash mouth brand of run it down your throat with buck and moreno type of game. Keep Rivers off the field. And if he is on, make him run for his life.
Great stuff HT.
Time to win back the west!
GO BRONCOS!!!
Buckhalter can run it.
I would prefer Moreno, because I like him running inside a little more. But Buckhalter has done a great job inside, so I don’t think it would be a big difference.
Orton can run block. We don’t want him doing much of it, but he’s a tougher player than folks might realize. I also think he can catch, but I really hope we don’t go that route. Also (unlike previous coaches and QBs we’ve had in DEN), I would very much prefer for Orton to slide rather than pick up yards.
"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe
by Steve Nichols on Oct 17, 2009 12:48 PM MDT up reply actions
Looking ahead
Good, as always HT. Thanks.
A couple of connected thoughts occurred to me as I read your piece and the comments.
Like you, I thought the Broncos would be much improved this year. I thought McDaniel would be a good coach (my first comment on hearing of the hire was, "There’s Cutler’s ticket to the HOF if he’s coachable.")
I also thought Orton, after the trade, would be more than adequate in the system – good arm and very coachable, and smart.
Also, like you, I thought that the adjustment on both offense and defense would take some time – 2 to 3 yrs for both. So, predicting how quickly it would happen was a crap shoot. I looked for 2 wins in the first 5, then 3 in the next five and 4 of the last 6, for a 9 and 7 season, with which I would have been very happy.
But the progress on both offense and defense has exceeded my expectations. So what to look for now.
The coaching and preparation for the games has been superb. But to master both the 3-4 and the NE system means being so familiar that most decisions happen instinctively – and that takes time. Those instincts are not yet set.
Which means that any good team could get the Broncos on a Sunday when their instincts desert them. They could lose a game they shouldn’t as they can win a game they maybe shouldn’t.
San Diego, though seemingly in noticeable decline, could be as dangerous as a wounded tiger. They have talent at key positions.
The best two characteristics (which may be connected) of the new Broncos is their mental and physical conditioning which puts them in every game to the end, and their ability to make adjustments, a quality I’m going to enjoy getting used to (since it has been noticeably lacking in the current past). They could go around 12-4 this year, or not.
I think, however, that, as they continue to adapt both offensively and defensively, becoming more instinctive, that they will get much better in the next couple of years. In addition, each draft will add noticeable upgrades (OL size at left guard and center), true 2 gap NT’s, replacement talent in the secondary, etc. In addition, I expect 2 or 3 current practice squad players to do very well in the next couple of yrs (i.e. Baker, Pedescleaux, Brandstater).
This year will continue to be exciting, but the coming years may be more so.
by ivanthenotsobad on Oct 16, 2009 8:31 PM MDT reply actions
Good stuff.
Denver looks pretty good already, and I wrote that I felt they seemed to be in midseason form a couple of weeks ago. Big surprise, and a pleasent one.
You’ll notice that, despite the good play, Coach and the players keep pointing out that they have a lot to work on. I think this is the “instinctive” level you are talking about. But even that is clicking quicker than expected.
Because the team has pulled together and worked so hard early on, they’ve gotten 5 wins during what should have been “a learning” period. They have built an excellent cushion moving forward, and they seem to have an inside track on the playoffs if they don’t implode.
By the time the playoffs role around, this team (like every other team) should be at their best. This bodes well for Denver.
Right now, I think the best teams in the AFC (no special order) are Denver, INDY, BAL, CINCY, and NE. We’ve already beaten NE and CIN, but they will be better by the playoffs (we might have the better seeding though). In other words, we will play the best teams in the AFC before the playoffs, so we will get a look at them, and also have a good idea of where we stand.
SB or not, this is shaping up to be a good year.
"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe
by Steve Nichols on Oct 17, 2009 12:58 PM MDT up reply actions
I think the whole we've got a lot to work on mantra
has a lot to do with avoiding complacency. It’s also true, of course, but I’ve seen teams start off hot and the players get overconfident, because they’re not used to being that good. And then comes the fall. Denver’s coaches are doing an excellent job of making sure the players realize they can and have to get better, and when you hear the players say the same thing at press conferences you know they’ve bought into it totally. Having veterans like Dawkins, Stokley, Gaffney et al to impress it on the youngins doesn’t hurt either.
"Surprised to see you, Captain, though pleased." — from Star Trek episode Space Seed.
I LOVE hearing these guys...
…downplay each win, saying that “We need to get better”. That’s a major reason why I don’t think we implode after quick starts like we did in previous seasons.
"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe
by Steve Nichols on Oct 17, 2009 2:40 PM MDT up reply actions
HT
Great article! If I may ask, what are the implications of a QB showing shotgun formation and reactions by the defense in response to this? I understand the idea that a QB is further back in his drop to begin with, and thus can watch the field and unload the ball quicker or avoid the pass rush better. However, what else? Does shotgun change the efficacy of screen plays? Is running out of shotgun always at a disadvantage? Can you explain your statement “but the disadvantage is that the defense will clamp down on each player lined up as a receiver”? Will the CBs try to jam the receivers on the line to slow down their deep routes?
Thanks!
Jason
The Hanging Curve
Good stuff Poor!
“…what are the implications of a QB showing shotgun formation and reactions by the defense in response to this?”
A QB in shotgun almost alway means pass. If the play is a run, it is probably going to be a “draw” (the QB drops back to throw, then hands off), or a “delay” (drops back to pass, waits – causing the defense to play the pass, then hands off), or QB draw (drops back or not, then runs).
“I understand the idea that a QB is further back in his drop to begin with, and thus can watch the field and unload the ball quicker or avoid the pass rush better. However, what else?”
There is actualy some debate in football theory as to whether a QB can see more or less by being further back. A good OC and QB’s coach will rely on the QB’s on perception of whether he feels he has a better view of the field or not. There are overall arguments (such as height of players on the OL as viewed up close and from a distance, as well as how details are harder to perceive from a distance, such as the window to pass within), but also individual issues (such as the peripheral vision of a QB, checked at the stronger colleges and all of the pro teams). For example, is it easier to see over your OL when you are right up against them, or further back? I think it is easier right up close, but that’s the QB’s call, not mine.
The one factor that all coaches agree on is that the QB gains more TIME. Defenders have more distance to cover to get to the QB, and this allows longer routes (and routes with more turns or “cuts”) to develop. The tradeoff is that the path for a succesfull pass is more narrow because the distance is further, and though the danger of a sack is lessened, a sack equals a greater loss of yards out of the shotgun.
The danger of pressure is (oddly enough) equal. Though the QB starts further back, most routes in this formation are longer or more complex, so the pressure reaches the QB at about the same time as it would have out of any other type of formation. The defenders take more time, but so do the routes. (You could run easier, shorter routes but you are already giving up a lot of running options, so why not use more routes with more opportunities for greater gain? Here again, coaches disagree).
“Does shotgun change the efficacy of screen plays?”
In my mind, the advantages and disadvantages of the screen from the shotgun balance out. In my opinion (speaking from a defensive coordinator perspective), a shotgun signals pass most of the time, so the WRs are going to be covered. But the extra drop back for the QB is as likely to suck a defender off of the RB as the extra steps back from any other formation (if that is who the QB is throwing to). Of course, the pass could also go to a WR with another WR, TE, and perhaps the OT blocking, or even to a TE catching with WRs blocking. There are many combinations. Either way, while the shotgun has good and bad issues for a screen, I don’t think it is any better or worse for screen plays.
As an anecdote, my first time-out from the sideline (I was middle school D-Coord at the time, and I remember it was my first game as a DC too) was when I yelled to the HC to call it. My defense was set up in our 4-4 (1 CB variation), and the other team came out with 4 receivers on the strong side. Three were in front, with one behind. This was going to be a “bubble screen”, with the target (possibly) being the one in back while the others blocked. Several of my kids reacted quickly and correctly, but I hadn’t prepared them for this and several didn’t (it was my fault). Like McD, the opposing coach was probably more interested in getting us to blow a time out than actualy running the play. It was a good lesson for me. (For what it is worth, the game was memorable for me because it was my first as one of the senior coaches, and we won. The opposing team ended up with negative yardage and several turnovers, and I don’t think I called a single blitz).
Is running out of shotgun always at a disadvantage?
Yes. The only advantage is that the play doesn’t look like a run at first. But the offense now has further to run for first down. There are typicaly less runblockers on the play as well. This doesn’t mean it won’t work (ask Mike Vick), as there are several draw and delay plays that work, but these are against the odds. A QB may call for a run out of the shotgun if he or the coach have been seeing something indicating a chance of success (usually a LB that isn’t keeping his assignment when he sees pass).
“Can you explain your statement "but the disadvantage is that the defense will clamp down on each player lined up as a receiver"? Will the CBs try to jam the receivers on the line to slow down their deep routes?”
SInce the CBs see a shotgun, they can be more confident that the play is pass. This allows them a little room to play the WR more assertively. For example, if the CB feels that he is “better” than the receiver he is covering, he may very well jam the receiver. He may also watch for a better chance to jump the route for the INT. If he isn’t as strong, the idea that the QB is telegraphing a pass (with the shotgun) may make him just that much more alert and careful.
Jamming is a great way to slow the deep pass, but sometimes just letting the CB play “off” the WR allows the CB a little more margin for error. (A blown jam can lead to a big play).
"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe
by Steve Nichols on Oct 17, 2009 1:58 PM MDT up reply actions
wow
Thank’s a bunch! There’s a ton of great information here.
Jamming is a great way to slow the deep pass, but sometimes just letting the CB play "off" the WR allows the CB a little more margin for error. (A blown jam can lead to a big play).
Marshall in the Cowboys game anyone?
Jason
The Hanging Curve
by poorboywilly on Oct 17, 2009 9:58 PM MDT up reply actions
Good example!
"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe
by Steve Nichols on Oct 18, 2009 1:15 PM MDT up reply actions
You can erase Intangibles
by showing the team videos like this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vCNK9zt5fec&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vD3tpkF8-xI&feature=related
Not to mention getting the Bronco fanbase getting fired up against these people.
It would fire up the fanbase.
But a good team doesn’t play into this stuff. Taunts from fans and such are just distractions.
As for the assault in the tunnel, it just shows how classess some fans are. Note that there were also Charger fans coming to the Bronco fan’s defense. (I noticed that the guy in the Plummer shirt did nothing to stand up for the guy in the Elway shirt).
"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe
by Steve Nichols on Oct 17, 2009 2:06 PM MDT up reply actions
Thanks bfree!
"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe
by Steve Nichols on Oct 17, 2009 3:47 PM MDT up reply actions

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