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MHR Community Knowledge - Screen Passes



Because of our wonderfully knowledgeable writing staff here at MHR, I understand that the 5-2 defense that we currently employ is susceptible to screen passes.  Because our own coordinators know that this is an innate weakness of our scheme, and the Chargers have consistently executed this play not only against us, but the entire league, I was wondering what strategies we might consider to limit this potentially game changing offensive weapon.

Star-divide

I've got plenty of ideas on how this can be utilized against us (Sproles and Gates are obviously the two primary candidates for this play), and how we might mitigate it, but I wanted to see what the more informed members of our community think about this.  I personally think that the screen pass will be the single most important indicator of whether or not we can beat the Chargers, and I want your opinion!

This is a Fan-Created Comment on MileHighReport.com. The opinion here is not necessarily shared by the editorial staff of MHR

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I had the same point....

I asked HT why he didn’t address that issue in Chalk Talk. I have visions/nightmares from last year of Sproles taking a screen pass 80 yards for touchdowns….

I know this is not that defense, but our D has been suseptible to the screen pass early in games and I am wondering what HT’s take might be on that.

Verbose in style, dispersion of thought, procrastination in life.

by Tim Lynch on Oct 16, 2009 1:26 PM MDT reply actions   0 recs

Without having the plays definitively in mind

I think some of the longest gainers all year came off of screen plays to Tashard Choice and Sammy Morris. I still think it’s a problem for an aggressive attacking defense like ours. I’d continue to challenge our discipline if I was coaching against Denver— they’ve made so many big plays and have the confidence that they can change the game. That might work against them, although I’m sure Dawkins/McDaniels/Nolan will have everyone playing within themselves.

by legendarywalton on Oct 16, 2009 1:54 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

I could be wrong,

but when I look at planned screens versus a dump off screen it has the apperance of the ol student body right or left sweep play. So that would mean there’d be tell that the play is coming and something the D could adjust to. What scares me is the dump off to LT, Sproles or sometimes Gates, because they have (have had) the ability to create after the catch so well.

We know Rivers likes the long ball, but, if memory serves me he is really adept at the dink and dump game as well.

I thinks you’ve asked a great question here LW!

by bchiper on Oct 16, 2009 2:02 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Make sure you read my reply to your comment.

I actualy DID mention Sproles and the screen play in my article.

Here are four ways to address the screen.

1) We switch formations a lot of the time, so a team doesn’t know going into the play if there will be a 5-2 or something else. In fact, we often have guys moving a second before the snap! A screen against the wrong defense is likely a stop behind the line.

2) Pressure solves almost anything, and we bring a lot of that. Our OLB/DEs bring a lot of pressure from the edges, and are often in position to bat down or disrupt a screen from getting started. (Of course, once it gets going and the pass is complete, they are out of position).

3) Keep the SAFs back in deep zone. A lot of screen tackles come from the SAF position, IF they haven’t cheated forward. Those doesn’t seem to be a problem with Nolan’s defense.

4) Keep an ILB manned on the RB, or widen the LBs a little.

Every defense has weaknesses and strengths. But none of those strengths or weaknesses are absolutes either. We have a pretty adaptable philosophy, and don’t even have to play 5-2 if we think the screen will be a major component.

"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe

by Steve Nichols on Oct 16, 2009 6:32 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

PreSeason

We had trouble with screen passes in pre-season to the strongside because Reid was defending there. Haggan replaced Reid and we have not had problems ever since.

by Endzone on Oct 16, 2009 1:34 PM MDT reply actions   0 recs

Kind of a goofy question, but

Can you fake a screen pass?

Seems like SD knows that Denver remembers how they were gashed by the screen. I’m wondering if there is a way to show screen to get the Broncos to commit and then do something else.

Like I said… It’s a goofy question.

- Jason

Horton is WIN - HORVIL TIKI

by jubei on Oct 16, 2009 1:37 PM MDT reply actions   0 recs

The first thing that comes to mind

if you fake a screen is your QB gets levelled. The idea with a screen pass is to let at least one defender through untouched, increasing the ratio of blockers to tacklers. I’m not sure of a way to fake one without getting your passer killed. I’d like to see ol’ Norv try it, though. :)

by BroncosBassist on Oct 16, 2009 1:48 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

A screen pass is really a fake too...

only your faking a deep pass… letting Defenders penetrate, and think they have a shot on the QB, and then dump it off to the defender, with lots of blockers in front of him. It’s kind of hard to fake a fake… know what I mean?

"So tell me what happened."
"Well, the last thing I remember is seeing this flash of Blue and Orange and the #22... then everything just went black..."

by HillisRanUover on Oct 16, 2009 2:14 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

You could run two back shotgun set

And release one back to the “fake” side, and run a draw to the opposite side. You’d hope to draw the defensive pursuit to the opposite side of the field. I don’t think you could really break a play like this, but it could definitely pick up an important first down and keep the defense guessing.

by legendarywalton on Oct 16, 2009 2:18 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

It’s kind of hard to fake a fake…

My thoughts exactly, but I had to ask.

- Jason

Horton is WIN - HORVIL TIKI

by jubei on Oct 16, 2009 2:57 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

+1

Nice. Hopefully Norv is listening.

- Jason

Horton is WIN - HORVIL TIKI

by jubei on Oct 16, 2009 2:54 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think most screen plays have deep routes to the opposite side of the route

I think that’s because you can leave your DE and OLB in a “spy” and if you don’t get pressure to the side of the screen, you could potentially get a Safety on a WR. If I were game planning for SD, I’d have a variety of screens prepared, and I’d take at least one shot deep after establishing the legit screen play.

by legendarywalton on Oct 16, 2009 1:51 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yes, and I'm little surprised it isn't done more often (other than the whole "QB turned to paste" problem)

Everything concerning a screen starts with the blocking scheme. On a typical half-back screen, the tackle, guard and TE to the screen side (usually) give a token block or a preset count and then release into the flat to block along with any receiver that is deployed to that side. If a team possesses extremely agile players in the OL, occasionally the center will also pull.

As has been pointed out in several places, the goal is to draw most of the D-line and any blitzing LB into the offensive backfield behind the RB and blockers. This gives the QB almost no time to make any decision outside of throwing the designed screen. Unless you have a track record of running screens (which both the Bolts and Broncos do), some offensive linemen who can act, and a QB with some serious mid-range touch.

Two possible screen fakes:
  #1: (Short yardage version) Out of a two back set, at the snap, the RB, TE, WRs and OT all sell the screen per usual (the guard stays in). The fullback pauses in the backfield long enough to account for a LB blitz and then releases into the opposite flat that should be opened by the weak side WR running a clearout.. The QB pump fakes the screen, and then turns and delivers to what should be a wide open FB. (The clearout is run on almost every screen, primarily to pull the FS away from the line of scrimmage.) Any defense playing with a “spy” in the LB can blow this up.

  #2: (Long ball version) This requires a QB with exceptional touch on fade routes – which unfortunately Philip Rivers has. The scenario begins as before, but with the FB now pulling to the side of the screen to account for the DE. The QB sells the pump fake to the screen, freezing the safeties just long enough to throw a midrange fade route to the weak side WR who is likely running a hitch and go.

Both of these options are dependent on a QB’s ability to track the FS or spy LB in a mere 2-count, but are capable of burning a defense that is focused on stopping a screen.

You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say will be misquoted and then used against you.

by improv88 on Oct 16, 2009 2:04 PM MDT up reply actions   2 recs

Awesome stuff improv

That second scenario is exactly what I’m worried about. SD has the lethal 1-2 punch in Rivers to Jackson. Gotta hope that Champ and Dawkins are on that side of the ball… I wouldn’t be surprised to see them come to the line with that fake screen called, look at the weak side matchup, and call an audible if it didn’t look good.

by legendarywalton on Oct 16, 2009 2:09 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Thanks, fellas! You especially, improv!

It worries me a bit since we’ve been gashed by the screen in the past. Seems like some form of a fake screen would hurt us badly, much like the play action after a defense has been manhandled on the ground.

Apologies to you, LW, if this has hijacked your OP!

- Jason

Horton is WIN - HORVIL TIKI

by jubei on Oct 16, 2009 3:08 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Not at all...

I just wanted to get some discourse going on the screen play, mostly to gauge the community’s level of concern against the play on monday. I’m very afraid, just like you!

by legendarywalton on Oct 16, 2009 3:19 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Fake screen pass...

Not really. A screen takes time to develop. The QB waits until the defenders almost have him, then “blam” – the ball goes to the edge.

If the QB waited that long, then made some sort of a fake, he’d likely get hurt. As it is, most good screens happen when much of the defense is already at the QB’s throat.

"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe

by Steve Nichols on Oct 16, 2009 6:35 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

If you all noticed in the Pats game

that Brady became more and more uncomfortable as he was feeling the pressure from the weak side. He knew in the back of his mind that the sack was coming and finally it did. NE’s OLine did a heck of a job against us for the most part but the pressure was there. His short passes became off target as well as his timing. Pressure is the key and player assignments. The Broncos can’t get in a position where they become confused with what’s going on, ala BDawk. He does a marvelous job of keeping people focused along with Andra Davis. A few good hits by DJ like he put on Roy Williams and that will be the end of Sproles and Gates. Pressure is the key, don’t let Rivers get happy back there, make him as miserable as posible.

by bfree2bronc on Oct 16, 2009 1:53 PM MDT reply actions   0 recs

Would you say...

That diagnosis of the screen by multiple players is the key to our success? Typically you’ll see a corner react but get blown up by the lead blocker and then there’s no support. I’d think that if a DE can sniff it out they can get to the receiver before it develops… but I also think that it’s more important that everyone is aware.

by legendarywalton on Oct 16, 2009 1:55 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

+1

I think the play-side DE is the key. The problem is see is that Rivers is so good at selling his drop back that the DE is probably thinking of an easy sack. By the time he realizes what’s happening, it’s too late. Are there any keys that the linemen (DE esp.) can use to diagnose a screen in progress?

Great post, BTW!

- Jason

Horton is WIN - HORVIL TIKI

by jubei on Oct 16, 2009 3:15 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

T & G

If the tackle and guard, whichever side, drop back and don’t try very hard on their initial block. They are going to be lead blocking for the screen pass runner. Actually, I think the play-side OLB is the key, especially if a WR or TE blocks the ILB hard The OLB has to choose whether to continue to rush the passer or drop back to cover the pass. Reid was really good at rushing and run defense but not good at pass defense. Haggan is doing a much better job. So I am not worried as long as the players do their job.

by Endzone on Oct 16, 2009 4:38 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Thanks, EZ!

The screen pass really seems to be one of the more difficult plays to execute well. I appreciate the explanation.

- Jason

Horton is WIN - HORVIL TIKI

by jubei on Oct 16, 2009 4:56 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

great post walton

I agree about the danger posed by the screen, adn thus the fake screen…I recall seein Michael Bennet break a couple huge plays in numerous games on 3rd down thanks to screen plays…hopefully, with C Nick Hardwick out for the game, the Chargers O-line will have problems communicating effectively and handlin our pressure and disguises.
Would be a good time to unleash Hillis in conjunction with Buckhalter and Moreno to control the clock and keep there opportunities for screens to a minimum.
rec’d bro

you already know.

by justwhytee on Oct 16, 2009 4:16 PM MDT reply actions   0 recs

Rec'd for discussion

Character may be manifested in the great moments but it is made in the small ones -- Philip Brooks

by KaptainKirk on Oct 16, 2009 9:12 PM MDT reply actions   0 recs

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