Shallow Thoughts & Nearsighted Observations
Happy Tuesday friends, and welcome to another (shortened) edition of Shallow Thoughts & Nearsighted Observations. This is MileHighReport.com, the premier source of Broncos new and analysis in the entire world. I have been feeling like we're still kind of peripheral, in the eyes of the rest of the worldwide media, but we beat the bejesus out of them every day, when it comes to covering the Broncos.
As they say, game recognizes game, and correspondingly, it also recognizes groupthink and suckiness. By your being here, reading this today, and hopefully, every week, you mark yourself as having good sense, and at least a partial desire to be part of what is a collaborative learning and growth experience for us all. I'm a front-page staff guy, obviously, but I learn interesting things from FanPosters all the time. Those people are the lifeblood of the MHR community, and they should be commended for their outstanding contributions.
If you're a lurker, you obviously have the good sense to consume our front page content. I wanted to take a minute to ask you to consider joining as an MHR community member, and participating in the discussion. We always welcome people just like you, and chances are, you know something that will be of value to the rest of us, or you have a question which will spark a discussion, which has value to the rest of us. Either way, we all win.
Okay, Ted's Own Personal Membership Drive is over. My local NPR affiliate, 90.3 WCPN in Cleveland, has been doing a drive lately (seemingly, every time I am in my car), so I decided to do a quick one in Donny Deutschland this week. I don't want your money, just your participation. (For one thing, I think this is a great week for my lurking brother Chris to join.) Do a smart thing, and get down with MHR. As we say in the US Navy, welcome aboard.
OK, on to football, and whatever else pops into my head. Out of the echo chamber, and into the fire, y'all. Ready....?
Y'all weren't ready. Okay, get ready, and let's try this again. Ready.... BEGIN!!!
1. I have some early thoughts on the Ravens game, which i consider to be a pretty favorable matchup for the Broncos. First, the Ravens are extremely physical, so it's good to be playing them, healthy and coming off a bye week. The Broncos will have to match their physicality on both sides of the ball, and I have every reason to expect that they will.
Offensively, the Broncos need to attack the Ravens outside the numbers, with Brandon Marshall, Eddie Royal, and Tony Scheffler. The Ravens are bad at CB, and really their only good DB is Ed Reed, so throwing it where he isn't is a solid plan. They also need to run the ball, and I believe that they'll have good success in doing so. The Ravens went about 3 years without giving up a 100-yard rusher, and then got hit back to back by Cedric Benson and Adrian Peterson in their last two games. This is a good defense, but it's not the vintage great defense we're used to.
Defensively, the Broncos absolutely must tackle Ray Rice, who has arguably been the second-best RB in the AFC this season, just behind Benson. Rice is averaging 6 yards per carry (73-441-3) and 9.8 yards per catch (33-325-1). Rice is very short, and very stocky, which makes him hard to tackle. Joe Flacco can make all the throws, but I love the Broncos secondary against Derrick Mason, Mark Clayton, and Todd Heap. I'm not worried about any of those guys consistently beating anybody in the Broncos secondary. Rice is the key player.
2. Information From My Eyes:
a. I like the vision and decisiveness with which Ryan Grant ran on Sunday. There have been some rumors that the Packers want to replace him, but he hasn't been the problem with the running game in Green Bay. He could use a good tandem back to work with, and better play from the offensive line, but Grant is definitely a starting-caliber back.
b. The Browns are just unwatchable, so I haven't been talking about them much lately. If I were Eric Mangini, this is the all-inclusive list of guys I'd want to keep on the roster after this season: Joshua Cribbs, Joe Thomas, Shaun Rogers, Eric Steinbach, Alex Mack, Mohamed Massaquoi, David Veikune, Eric Wright, Brandon McDonald, and D'Qwell Jackson. (I like Brady Quinn better than he does, but since he clearly doesn't like him, I excluded him). That's the only 10 players who I think are good players (or potentially good players) on winning football teams. Maybe you keep 10 more for next year, which is still going to be transitional. For the rest of the roster, you take a page from your friend Josh McDaniels, and go out and find some professionals to fill your holes, and try to have a very good draft. It is a talent problem in Cleveland, and all the other stuff is red herrings, until they fix the talent.
c. At a total team level, I am very impressed with the Cincinnati Bengals, and I think that they are a serious threat in the playoffs. I know I have smart readers, and I exchanged emails with a guy in the UK named Jake last week. He thought that the Bengals were a lock against the Bears, and I agreed. The Bengals controlled the line of scrimmage on both sides of the ball, and they hit and frustrated Jay Cutler all day.
d. I don't want to be too inflammatory with any of our Cutler lovers (if any are left), but has anybody noticed that he took his personal tendency for being on the losing end of blowouts with him to Chicago? I am sure the Broncos will eventually lose a game, but I find it impossible to imagine this team losing any game 45-10. It takes a certain kind of team to have the wheels just totally fall off in all phases of the game. I looked at the Bears Sunday and saw a complete lack of gameness and mental toughness. We all remember the games the 2006-2008 Broncos had like that, and I don't mean to attribute it personally to Cutler, or take a cheap shot. You simply can't deny, though, that this bad team-wide trait followed him out of town, and joined him in Chicago.
e. Cutler still seems to have the Favre-ian effect on the media and his fan base, where he manages to completely avoid personal blame, even when he plays very poorly, as he did Sunday. I visited the Bears' SBNation side, Windy City Gridiron, and there was virtually no criticism of Cutler, and you can see that he has again escaped much MSM accountability, too. I know I used to rationalize his bad play, and I think everybody here pretty much did too, at least to some degree. It's really a pretty amazing phenomenon, in a bad way. (By the way, I was proud to see that none of our members were over there trolling. Big up, MHR.)
f. Nobody gets picked in the top 5 of a draft because they look like they can't play in the NFL. Cedric Benson's talent just jumps off the screen. He's so fast for his size, and he has changed everything for Cincinnati. He's the main reason that the Bengals are so good on offense, because defenses are having to play eight in the box against him. That allows their good WRs to run wild, and Carson Palmer to hit his choice of open players. Benson is 10 times the player that Matt Forte is. The magnitude of the difference is akin to comparing Brian Dawkins to (Safety) Roy Williams.
g. The Bears' 7-man fronts were getting blown off the ball consistently. Just wait until Andre Smith gets started playing at RT. He is going to flat-out dominate in the running game, if he can keep his head on straight. He was clearly the best lineman in the 2009 Draft, and only his erratic pre-Draft behavior made him last to the sixth-overall pick.
h. Tank Johnson has been excellent all season for the Bengals, and was particularly terrific Sunday. Frostee Rucker and Robert Geathers had big games too, and the Bengals didn't seem to miss Antwan Odom too terribly (for one game, anyway).
i. Remember that business about top-5 guys going in the top 5 for a reason? ST&NO favorite Alex Smith had that on display Sunday. If he is ever put in a position to succeed, and can stay healthy, he will be the second coming of Rich Gannon. He's had 5 offensive coordinators in 5 years, and had the really bad shoulder injury, which he foolishly tried to play through for awhile. Remember, he is still only 25 years old. He's smart, athletic, and throws a pretty nice ball, and he's a humble, team-first player. I think Smith has an opportunity to get his career back on track, because Shaun Hill has played poorly for most of this season. There is no question that Smith is more talented than Hill.
j. It took him awhile, and some tough love from Mike Singletary to get there, but Vernon Davis is the best two-way TE in the NFL. I'd say the next best guy is probably Jason Witten, but there's a big drop-off between the two. Davis is such a fantastic blocker, and he's improved greatly as a receiver.
k. On the topic of pride and mental toughness, you have to be impressed with the job the Saints did Sunday, in coming back from a 24-3 first-half deficit against Miami. They just kept plugging away, and started executing, and eventually overtook the Dolphins. It was a great team effort, on a day where they didn't have their best stuff.
l. One serious concern I have for the Saints is how susceptible they looked to backside pressure on Drew Brees, with Jermon Bushrod filling in for Jammal Brown at LT (Brown is out for the year). Brees was shaky when he was getting pressured Sunday, like most QBs. You especially want to pressure the "A" gaps against him, because he has a strong predisposition for aggressively stepping straight up into the pocket. The Dolphins were especially successful when they generated interior pressure.
m. The Dolphins are probably going to miss the playoffs this year, and they'll look back with regret on letting the Colts and Saints get off the mat, when they had both teams pretty well beaten. Miami is a good team, which has just whiffed on opportunities to beat other good teams.
n. I don't think there is anything particularly noteworthy about Miles Austin, from a skills perspective. I watched the Dallas/Atlanta game when I got back from Dallas on Monday afternoon, and my first thought was that a good portion of the torching Austin put on the Falcons was from the slot in 3-WR packages, against base defensive personnel. I got all set to rip the Falcons for not subbing to match the offensive personnel grouping, but then I thought about it, and found myself wondering if I wouldn't be sticking to base too, if I were their Defensive Coordinator Brian Van Gorder. The Falcons lost their best CB, Brian Williams, to injury last week, and, remember, he was a Jaguars training camp casualty. Behind him are Chris Houston (who is talented but inconsistent), and Brent Grimes (who is not really talented, but tries hard). Nickel offense is the way to beat the Falcons, because they severely lack the quality players in the secondary to match up with it. I think Sunday was the first step to them having that deficiency cost them a playoff spot this year.
o. Isn't it great to have 4 CBs we can trust, as well as two safeties, in Darcel McBath and Josh Barrett, who are very good in man-to-man coverage?
p. One thing that jumped out in the Dallas-Atlanta game was that the Falcons receivers (including Tony Gonzalez) had a great deal of trouble separating from the man-to-man coverage they were getting from the Cowboys (whose secondary is average, at best). Matt Ryan had a lot of really tight spots to throw to, and largely since he got hit a great deal Sunday, he missed a lot of those throws.
q. So, I promised I'd interject some fraternity-man wedding hijinks, whether anybody wants it or not, so here goes. Have you ever had a snakebite? It's a shot my contemporaries and I favor, and it consists of Yukon Jack and lime juice. It strikes a good balance between being masculine and manageable, and it's kind of that one shot that everybody agrees is doable. Anyway - apparently, Yukon Jack hasn't penetrated the Dallas-Fort Worth market very effectively, because these local bartenders there have never heard of it, or a snakebite. Well, Scott (the groom) came to play, and he made sure that there was Yukon Jack at the reception, and that the caterers knew how to make the shot.
So, at some point, when the music shifted from craptastic country dinner music, and moved on to Run DMC, the 5 Tekes who were there did a snakebite. Good times. Then we did another, and we were joined by the cool girls in the wedding party, and a couple of Scott's cousins. The Tekes put it down like it was water, the rest of them struggled, and made faces while choking it down. Scott looked at me, with this extreme solemnity, and he nodded and said, "This is how we do."
Five eloquent words, and truth was achieved. This is, in fact, how we do. He was absolutely right. There's an easily discernible identity about us, as a group of men, and part of that identity is that we dominate some snakebites. I thought of this, as I watched the Short Cut of the Colts-Rams game. The Colts have an easily discernible identity. They play a lot of Cover-2 on defense, and try to limit their exposure to big plays. On offense, they take the whole play clock, try to shorten the game, and Peyton Manning works to always take what the defense gives him. They want to get a 10-14 point lead, and then send Dwight Freeney and Robert Mathis after your QB, once you have to throw the ball. There's no secret or mystery to it, and they don't even particularly game-plan much for specific teams, beyond adjusting some protection schemes, maybe. There is a great deal of comfort to knowing exactly what you're going to do, and exactly who you are.
r. Why in the world would the new Twilight movie be advertised during Monday Night Football? I am sure a few people like (or would like) both Twilight and pro football, but can it possibly be more than 10% of the viewers? Seems like little value for the advertising dollar, there, pinning your hopes to a mostly male audience being interested in the visual depiction of chick lit.
s. So, I have a half-sister, Abby, who is going to be 8 in November. She's a smart kid, but when I was over last week, her mother was telling her that she needed to learn how to think outside the box a little more. Abby didn't know what that meant, so I drew her the classic MBA school exercise that our father shared with me when I was about 13 (and he was in MBA school, and this was a brand new idea). This exercise is actually where the now-tired phrase came from.

The objective is to connect all 9 dots, using 4 or less straight lines. As the term "outside the box" indicates, this is how you complete the objective.
I dislike the term "outside the box," because people who have no idea what it means use it all the time. (It's one of those concepts that would have been better off being compartmentalized to smart people only, like any number of concepts I can think of, actually). Anyway, I am taking a long route to applauding the Eagles for making an "outside the box" huge trade last week, just ahead of the deadline.
Will Witherspoon is not particularly famous, because he has toiled on irrelevant teams for his whole career (first, some mostly bad Carolina teams, and then some awful St. Louis teams). He's very good, though, and he has experience both in the middle, and on the weakside. He's a run-and-hit player, like the kind of guy you'd probably see in a Jim Bates- or Larry Coyer-kind of design. It seems to me that Steve Spagnuolo didn't think that Witherspoon particularly fit his system, which is, of course, basically the same system used in Philadelphia and with the New York Giants. It's a big, blitz-happy 40-front, which is designed around getting A-gap pressure consistently. It's stylistically similar to a Phillips 3-4, and it favors interior front-seven players who are basically 3-4 profile guys.
The Jim Johnson tree has always favored big, downhill thumpers in the middle. Power trumps speed at that position. The quintessential guy is Jeremiah Trotter, who was the size of a DE in his prime, and is now closer to a DT. (Trotter, you'll remember, once struggled mightily when he signed a big contract with Washington, and they tried to make him fit their scheme.) The Eagles brought him back this season, and he was a huge liability in the passing game (to wit, see the Raiders game last week). By bringing in Witherspoon, the Eagles went outside of type, but the impact single-handedly returned them to real-contender status. He had a huge game Monday night, with an interception for a TD, and a strip-sack, and I expect that it's only the beginning.
t. I hope Jon Gruden doesn't get and/or take a coaching job next season. He is fantastic on Monday Night Football, and y'all know I am not too prone to wantonly complimenting much of anything about ESPN. He had a great piece of information on the Redskins, which was really shocking to me, actually. Clinton Portis told him that the last time he heard an audible, he was a Bronco. Gruden's point was that if Jason Campbell could at least change the protection scheme to account for overload blitzes, it could put him in better position not to get crushed, while knowing the crushing is coming.
Umm, you think? That's just scratching the surface of the benefits of audible-ing. The Redskins are a total Mickey Mouse operation, and I am just shocked that they didn't have anything in place, even when Joe Gibbs was there. That strikes me as having to be an organizational policy, and if it is, it's the stupidest thing that I have ever heard of, in 22 years of being a serious football observer. I know high school teams that audible, for God's sake.
u. Jason Peters, who I have been wanting to take a close look at, looked pretty cockamamie to me on Monday night, which agreed with my long-held perception of him. He gave up a sack, and generally looked like a low-effort, I-already-got-paid kind of guy. There were several plays where I saw him watching the play, and not looking to hit anybody. I see and hear all these glowing reports on the guy, but where's the beef? I am starting to understand why Buffalo thought paying Peters was a bad idea.
v. I don't like gambling, but I had to take the bet my friend Paul offered me. I had Philadelphia, straight-up against Washington, with dinner as the stakes, the next time Paul is in Cleveland around Thanksgiving. That was such a lock, it's almost unbelievable that he offered me the bet. And, no, he's actually a Dallas fan, in case you were wondering if he was just a silly Washington homer.
3. I have been something of a Brett Kern apologist, but he wasn't getting it done. I like the message that replacing him sends to the rest of the team. Even a 6-0 team has room for improvement, and everybody needs to handle the job they're hired to do.
4. I was thinking about roles over the weekend, how we all have certain roles to fill in life, and how that's true of football too, which was the context I was thinking in. All good teams are full of role players who understand their roles. As a member of the MHR creative team, I have a role, and so do the rest of the guys. (I don't know if what my role became is what John had in mind when he asked me to join last year, but it is what it is now.) Snark, discussion about offense, courage, media criticism, pop culture, snark, meandering, community building, snark, detailed football analysis, play diagrams, obscure references, lots of (now correctly punctuated) parentheses, righteous indignation, commentary on other teams and games, optimism, prescience in 2009, and snark. That's my role, and that's ST&NO.
I like that the Broncos were constructed and operate with a lot of thought devoted to roles. As a coach, when you sign a veteran like Vonnie Holliday on the eve of the season, and you tell him that he'll be a rotation player, primarily on the field in pass-rush situations, there's a clarity of understanding between you and the player. That clarity is good for business, and it comes through when you see all 53 players knowing their roles, and playing them well.
5. I think MSM NFL reporters are mostly dorks; that's pretty well-established here. (I don't mean the stringers and the local AP guys, per se, I mean the scoop-seeking talking heads.) The most dork-tastic one, in my opinion, is Jay Glazer from Fox, and he's several laps ahead of the field. Here are some recent Glazer tweets:
i'm reporting dallas and d ware have agreed on new 6 yr deal worth up to 13 per yr and nearly 40mil guaranteed. well worth it!
I reported Dan Snyder was urged to give Zorn vote of conf but opted not to. Also didnt wanna speak to press, fearing he wouldn't bite tongue
i'm so tired from spending the whole dang day workin the phones for scoopage i really don't wanna go out. wait, wait... my arm is a twistin
Cindy Crawford was here at this party, gotta admit she is one of the my physically beautiful and elegant women I have ever seen! stunning!!!
dumbest line of our night! Strahan: "There's TWO things i can do: spell, add and subtract." yes, he really said that! my friend is a moron
Have you ever known a person who is always name-dropping, and was at this party, and saw that celebrity, and is always claiming credit for themselves, because they're so much better than everybody else? That's Jay Glazer. Really, how hard is it to be an MSM NFL reporter? You offer yourself up as a convenient mouthpiece for anybody who wants to use you, and then they use you. You try to make them let you use them once in a while, too.
The Cowboys signed DeMarcus Ware; okay, that's admittedly news. Does it matter if Glazer heard about it 10 minutes before Adam Schefter did? With these guys, it's always about who had information first that everybody was going to have soon anyway. None of these guys is ever finding out anything significant which wasn't meant to come out. The Snyder thing is meaningless. Who cares? Everybody knows he's going to fire Jim Zorn after the season, so how he felt last week, when he didn't make any news, is worthless. It's just something Glazer can claim that he knew, that nobody else did. There's no Woodward or Bernstein covering the NFL, you know?
Since we're all friends here, I just wanted to vent, because Glazer makes me crazy, with his "scoopage," and his name-dropping, and his day-drinking in Beverly Hills. Thanks for listening/reading.
6. From Stuart Scott, trying to sound smart by saying that Donovan McNabb is an H-back when he's lined up outside in the Eagles "Wildcat" look:
H-back means good speed, some heft to him, runs good routes, and can catch the ball.
Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr. I don't care for Stuart Scott, and all of his contrived, Berman-esque, shucking and jiving, but I would like him a little better if he'd not talk about things he has no clue about. Just stick to worshipping Michael Jordan, mmmmkay, Stu? And while we're at it, how is Matt Winer the analytical counter-balance to Trent Dilfer, on the ESPN Monday Night 3-man set? Those two with noted other shucker/jiver Scott Van Pelt is a weird trio.
7. Retired for John Elway
8. I had occasion to drive by the new Dallas Cowboys stadium over the weekend, and TV doesn't do justice to how enormous it is. It's a really impressive-looking building from the outside. One thing, though, which I found interesting about my DFW experience, was how few people and cars I saw rocking Cowboys gear. I saw more on Monday morning, which is probably no surprise.
I hope everybody has a good Ravens week. All you get is about 4,200 words this week, because I am out of interesting things to say, and we're on some all-killer, no-filler here, like always. Really, that would be about an 18-20 page term paper in college, so it's still not too shabby. Look for Lighting Up The Scoreboard Saturday afternoon, and follow me on Twitter @TedBartlett905. And join MHR, if you haven't yet. There's no time like now.
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Thank you Thank you
Just watched Broncos @ Raiders (friends, if you ever have a bad day at work, come home and re-watch the raiders’ first three posessions of that game: better than any tonic for the troubled soul) with my daughter to help get us both over the hump.
And waking up to ST&NO makes everything brighter.
"Aggression, discipline, accountability, effort" Brian Dawkins 9/29/2009
"Life is a daring adventure or nothing." Helen Keller
"He will always be a slave who does not know how to live upon a little" Horace
by PositivIntegral on Oct 27, 2009 6:53 AM MDT reply actions
Great job, Ted
At least I know who you are after the handle-change. :) Coupla thoughts:
1. Chicago fans can’t throw Jay under the bus now. It’s painful to admit you made a mistake, and until he proves otherwise, signing him to that extension wasn’t the best idea. Of course, the team didn’t have much choice after giving away the farm to get him. I don’t mean any disrespect in this, either. I felt the same way about him when he was here. I tried to ignore his bad games and focus on his spectacular plays. I’m happier and happier with Kyle.
2. Broncos v. Colts: I think we can play with those guys. We have the ability to bring pressure on Manning, which can throw off their entire offensive groove. I know that we have the ability to move the ball on the cover-2. Our strength and desire matches up well with their weakness in that case. We want the underneath, clock-eating stuff. Let Marshall break three or four tackles for the big gainers. I think that we, of all teams, have the ability to take Mathis and Freeney out of the game. Well, as much as anyone can. It helps to have guys like Knowshon in there to help pick up rushers if need be. If we can keep the score close, I think they are in trouble. I see a team that is susceptible to the run and isn’t usually tested because they jump out to leads.
3. Yes. Yes, I thank our lucky stars daily that we’re deep with quality at CB and at Safety. Who would have thought at the end of last year that you might count the secondary as a strength of this team?
by BroncosBassist on Oct 27, 2009 6:58 AM MDT reply actions 1 recs
yup yup
i think the miami game proved that a QB is only as good as the offensive line in front of him and manning has always had a hell of an offensive line and during the glory years of brady he did as well… until he met the giants pass-rush in the super bowl giggles
oh and ted, going along with what you saw...
…. smith has been named the starter for the 49ers
Well said BB
1. +1
2. +1
3. +5
Oh, and Ted (if that is your real name ;) nice ST&NO again, as always! Favorite thing about Tuesdays.
by Royal With Cheese on Oct 27, 2009 8:23 AM MDT up reply actions
Thanks so much!
Man I wish I could just fill my termpapers with NFL/Broncos thoughts…I’d have them done in no time!
Great as always, thanks!
Bleeding Orange & Blue in The Netherlands
Great stuff again Ted. Rec'd
I don’t know what else to say really. It’s like trying to come up with superlatives for Tiger Woods. You just kind of run out of them. What can I say that hasn’t already been said? Just keep them coming bro. Thanks.
All you get from drafting the "best player available" is a team full of good football players.
Cotton McKnight: I'm being told that Average Joe's does not have enough players and will be forfeiting the championship match.
Pepper Brooks: It's a bold strategy, Cotton. Let's see if it pays off for 'em.
Oh and btw
I haven’t had snakebites in a loooong time. You have to get Rose’s Lime Juice. No ordinary lime juice will do.
Unfortunately, I have “graduated” from Snakebites to Jager.
All you get from drafting the "best player available" is a team full of good football players.
Cotton McKnight: I'm being told that Average Joe's does not have enough players and will be forfeiting the championship match.
Pepper Brooks: It's a bold strategy, Cotton. Let's see if it pays off for 'em.
Next thing you know.
You’ll be trying Cement Mixers…
Quit drinking the Kool-Aid and start drinking the good stuff, and everything is always alright.
by Chuck "DeadDrunk" Breedlove on Oct 27, 2009 2:59 PM MDT up reply actions

"Take what you can. Give nothing back!"
by Colorado_Kitten on Oct 27, 2009 3:41 PM MDT up reply actions
Great pic Kitten :)
"I am not one of those who think that coming in second or third is winning." -- Robert F. Kennedy
by Ted Bartlett on Oct 27, 2009 7:26 PM MDT up reply actions
I tried one...and only one.
All you get from drafting the "best player available" is a team full of good football players.
Cotton McKnight: I'm being told that Average Joe's does not have enough players and will be forfeiting the championship match.
Pepper Brooks: It's a bold strategy, Cotton. Let's see if it pays off for 'em.
Cement mixer that is.
And Kitten. Judging from that pick, you seem like a lot of fun to party with.
All you get from drafting the "best player available" is a team full of good football players.
Cotton McKnight: I'm being told that Average Joe's does not have enough players and will be forfeiting the championship match.
Pepper Brooks: It's a bold strategy, Cotton. Let's see if it pays off for 'em.
Rose's is great stuff
"I am not one of those who think that coming in second or third is winning." -- Robert F. Kennedy
by Ted Bartlett on Oct 27, 2009 7:25 PM MDT up reply actions
Nice way to start a Tuesday!
Thanks Ted. I was actually cheering for the ‘Skins last night. I didn’t care who won, really; no one actually picked the ‘Skins to win or even cover. I watched a bit here and there, and saw they had moments of really good, exciting play…usually followed by more moments of pathetic ineptitude. It wasn’t totally boring for the fans, fortunately, but you’ve got to feel a little for them. They had about the worst team in the NBA, the Nats I think did have the worst record, now the Redskins…. Nice one to win dinner off of that game.
You think they’re missing Dawkins in the backfield here in Philly? Bringing back Trotter is some indication they are. At least they beat the Redskins, and fans do have the Series for a diversion this week, after all.
Good thoughts on the Ravens and Colts – a couple tough games coming up for sure. Really looking forward to Sunday!
The divorce papers are recorded at the county office
(By the way, I was proud to see that none of our members were over there trolling. Big up MHR.)
Success (eventually) leads to largesse. The spicy chips of schadenfreude have gone stale. We now feel for Chicagoans…but only when their situation accidentally crosses our path…
There is no longer any need to be angry, or talk smack, or really worry about it at all.
"Aggression, discipline, accountability, effort" Brian Dawkins 9/29/2009
"Life is a daring adventure or nothing." Helen Keller
"He will always be a slave who does not know how to live upon a little" Horace
by PositivIntegral on Oct 27, 2009 7:03 AM MDT reply actions
No anger, no smack, no worries here.
Just want to see a #8 – 12 draft pick out of ‘em; and it looks like we’re on target for that!
Roger that
Giving McD a #10-ish pick may be unfair to the rest of the league.
But we’ll take it.
Speaking of, that was, I think, my “conversion” moment, when Coach gave away OUR first-round pick instead of the “guaranteed to be good” Bears’ – it felt less like arrogance, and more like a vote of confidence: We’ll make our own destiny, thank you: and no, we will not place a wager to “win” if we lose – hedging is for mediocrities, and Coach was determined to build a good team or die trying.
I also had something of a “burn the lifeboats” quality to it (tip of the hat to Navy boys like Ted). And I think the solid, no-roster-moves until yesterday, team attitude has benefitted from it. Finally, bucking CW that forcefully pretty much jettisoned all those who were inclined to worry and hand-wringing: made ’em walk the plank into warm, shallow, safe water you might say.
Anyway, MC, I think the Broncos are going to send the Seahawks a #32, and the Broncos are picking #13 from the Bears. You read it here first.
"Aggression, discipline, accountability, effort" Brian Dawkins 9/29/2009
"Life is a daring adventure or nothing." Helen Keller
"He will always be a slave who does not know how to live upon a little" Horace
by PositivIntegral on Oct 27, 2009 7:23 AM MDT up reply actions
"Hedging is for mediocrities"
I, too, remember my reaction to trading our “sure-to-be-great” draft pick away. I thought at the time that it must have been what the trade demanded, but then the thought crept in (likely spurred by an MHR post or two) that McD was deliberate in that, and for all the reasons you’ve noted.
I did take the move as confidence more than sheer brashness, and my admiration for him ticked up in making it. Now, I was never of the opinion that we’d traded away a top 10 pick – more like low 20’s (I was an 11-5 guy). BUT, if your prediction plays out – and I love the idea and am not betting against it – then we’re talking coach of the century here, folks. And a superb accomplishment from a real team. Love to see it!
Thats not how it went down
From what I’ve read, Seattle insisted that they get our pick and not Bears’ pick. I was thinking about it some time back and was tickled pink as to what Seattle must be thinking now.
god created earth in 6 days....on the 7th day, he took a break and created elway
Yeah, but
Accuracy should not get in the way of a good story. And I’m going to be a geezer someday telling my grandkids about the Broncos of 2009. Might as well start gilding the lily now.
Thanks for the correction, though Bronkos.
"Aggression, discipline, accountability, effort" Brian Dawkins 9/29/2009
"Life is a daring adventure or nothing." Helen Keller
"He will always be a slave who does not know how to live upon a little" Horace
by PositivIntegral on Oct 27, 2009 9:47 AM MDT up reply actions
And
Even if Seattle insisted, the McXanders still had to accept, which still shows respectable cajones at that moment in time.
"Aggression, discipline, accountability, effort" Brian Dawkins 9/29/2009
"Life is a daring adventure or nothing." Helen Keller
"He will always be a slave who does not know how to live upon a little" Horace
by PositivIntegral on Oct 27, 2009 9:57 AM MDT up reply actions
They made the deal
So, there’s nothing that says it’s not what they both wanted. Be careful what you wish for (Seattle). BWAHAHAHAH!
Josh proved without a doubt
That he really IS Kid McGenius. And I repeat, the learning curve for the rest of the league will take a couple of years to catch up to.
Character may be manifested in the great moments but it is made in the small ones -- Philip Brooks
by KaptainKirk on Oct 27, 2009 10:48 AM MDT up reply actions
Disagree
No way the rest of the league will ever catch up.
IT is, and it's impossible for IT not to be.
Parmenides (5th Century B. C. Greek)
Lol
Character may be manifested in the great moments but it is made in the small ones -- Philip Brooks
by KaptainKirk on Oct 27, 2009 11:46 AM MDT up reply actions
Confidence
You’re absolutely right. I interpreted the trade to mean that McD was confident we were going to have a solid team this year.
I admit, I questioned whether his talent evaluation skills could back up his confidence, but I was always open to the possibility. I think my general response “many folks say X, McD obviously thinks Y… we’ll see who’s right”.
I did like the “burn the lifeboats” quality to it though… it was the clearest signal I saw that McD/X were clear about their strategic priorities and vision, and were going to implement their plan regardless of what others thought about it. I figured both DEN and CHI would be in the 7 to 9 win range, with injury luck playing a huge role in which team ended up on top…. even if he estimated the teams similar to me a thought they were roughly the same, showing confidence in the team was the right call…
Showing confidence in the team is the right call
Particularly comtrasted to just SPEAKING confidence in the team
"Aggression, discipline, accountability, effort" Brian Dawkins 9/29/2009
"Life is a daring adventure or nothing." Helen Keller
"He will always be a slave who does not know how to live upon a little" Horace
by PositivIntegral on Oct 27, 2009 2:13 PM MDT up reply actions
I know.
The only thing better than winning the SB, winning the SB and knowing your giving a team who was expecting a top 10 pick a pick one higher than the one they gave you.
HAHA
Quit drinking the Kool-Aid and start drinking the good stuff, and everything is always alright.
by Chuck "DeadDrunk" Breedlove on Oct 27, 2009 3:02 PM MDT up reply actions
Benson
Hey Ted, what do you think is the difference between Chicago Benson and Cincinnati Benson? Is it maturity, a better line to play behind, coaching or something else?
We’ve seen Thomas Jones and – at least last year – Matt Forte have success in the same system.
What’s changed for him do you think?
"Space is big. You just won't believe how vastly, hugely, mind- bogglingly big it is. I mean, you may think it's a long way down the road to the chemist's, but that's just peanuts to space."
"It is a mistake to think you can solve any major problems just with potatoes" Douglas Adams
by orange&blue_aussie on Oct 27, 2009 7:24 AM MDT reply actions
I think it's about passion and desire
He got frustrated in Chi-town and stopped playing 100%. Then he saw what life is like without a huge NFL salary and stepped it up.
Oh, and a decent O-Line never hurts.
BTW, love the D. Adams references. Some of the best comedic writing of all time.
by Royal With Cheese on Oct 27, 2009 8:25 AM MDT up reply actions
Thanks man...
Yeah he always seemed like he felt entitled to more playing time in Chicago and was openly frustrated but never made the most of it. The O-line seemed like an explanation but other runners didn’t do too bad. Good to see a player reach their potential though.
As for D.Adams… thanks. Yeah love those books. One of my other favourite quotes as they were trying to get into the Hitchhikers Guide office and that flying receptionist said something like “No I’m sorry he’s too cool to see you right now”. Classic. You see that another guy has written another episode? I’m a bit afraid to buy it.
"Space is big. You just won't believe how vastly, hugely, mind- bogglingly big it is. I mean, you may think it's a long way down the road to the chemist's, but that's just peanuts to space."
"It is a mistake to think you can solve any major problems just with potatoes" Douglas Adams
by orange&blue_aussie on Oct 27, 2009 8:51 AM MDT up reply actions
The answer is 42
Oh yeah, football—
Benson’s complaint in CHI was always his playing time. Now that he’s the feature, he feels better and will try more. Also, the line is better in Cincy, and the QB… let me say this carefully: Lovie never utilized Orton respectably, so defenses never respected him. Thus the 8-man fronts, thus less room for Benson. In Cincy, that won’t happen.
And I’m sure that a slice of humble pie helped as well.
"I certainly don't put myself in [Tom Brady's] class. He's probably the best quarterback to ever play this game. He's got the rings to show it. I didn't beat him. Our team beat the New England Patriots." --- Kyle Orton
by Sharpe as a Tack on Oct 27, 2009 8:59 AM MDT up reply actions
I swear if I were ever to become a professional footballer
I’d wear #42 and self proclaim my nickname to be “the answer”. (Actually as i write that i’m wondering if someone else has that nickname??!… hmmm…)
I like the careful wording on Orton! But yeah having an Ocho-threat and Palmer back there must take a lot of pressure off. Once again another case of a good player in a bad system. There lies the opportunity in FA.
"Space is big. You just won't believe how vastly, hugely, mind- bogglingly big it is. I mean, you may think it's a long way down the road to the chemist's, but that's just peanuts to space."
"It is a mistake to think you can solve any major problems just with potatoes" Douglas Adams
by orange&blue_aussie on Oct 27, 2009 9:08 AM MDT up reply actions
That would be pretty awesome...
I know A.I. had that from his time in Philly, but I don’t think any NFL players have had it…
by OrangeTorpedo on Oct 27, 2009 12:26 PM MDT up reply actions
Chicago Benson vs Cincinnati Benson
Benson said he did a lot of growing up after being released by Chicago – he’s working harder. You have to give him some credit, although the points above about the O lines, etc., are valid also.
IT is, and it's impossible for IT not to be.
Parmenides (5th Century B. C. Greek)
I think it has to be confidence and better teammates
Because of Benson, Cincinnati is a nightmare to defend. Remember, they have Carson Palmer throwing to Chad Ochocinco, Laveranues Coles, Chris Henry, and Bubba Caldwell. They have a good offensive line, especially in the running game. Of course just as Benson helps these guys, they help him. There’s an interconnectedness that good offenses have.
"I am not one of those who think that coming in second or third is winning." -- Robert F. Kennedy
by Ted Bartlett on Oct 27, 2009 7:32 PM MDT up reply actions
Thanks Ted
Agree. Amazing how much confidence can improve your game of any sport from hitting a tennis ball to NFL RB.
And having that team around you doesn’t hurt either to be sure… ;)
"Space is big. You just won't believe how vastly, hugely, mind- bogglingly big it is. I mean, you may think it's a long way down the road to the chemist's, but that's just peanuts to space."
"It is a mistake to think you can solve any major problems just with potatoes" Douglas Adams
by orange&blue_aussie on Oct 27, 2009 8:51 PM MDT up reply actions
See Kyle Orton!
Those that cant coach, compete!
Failing to plan is planning to fail.
All I want is 53 Rod Smiths. Is that asking too much????
"Peyton Hillis didn’t rip the sleeves off his jersey, they flew off out of fear."
Calijoefornia.
Bushrod
Jermon Bushrod is from my hometown, so it is nice to hear his name.
Since the Saints are using him for the season and I am pretty sure he has been starting since the beginning of the season, what are your overall thoughts on him? Is he a solid backup or could he actually start in the league?
I have only seen him play a couple times...
He looked decent in his first start at LT, and over-matched last week. I think he looks more like a Right Tackle Only, but maybe like one who can be a solid player there.
"I am not one of those who think that coming in second or third is winning." -- Robert F. Kennedy
by Ted Bartlett on Oct 27, 2009 7:34 PM MDT up reply actions
What fun!
Hello from near Cabo San Lucas. Your ocean is waiting for you!
"Kool-Aid Kool Aid, Tastes Great, We Want Kool Aid, Can't Wait"
by littletinybroncos on Oct 27, 2009 8:13 AM MDT reply actions
San Jose del Cabo?
I am now craving me some Hangman and Las Guacamayas…
"Take what you can. Give nothing back!"
by Colorado_Kitten on Oct 27, 2009 4:09 PM MDT up reply actions
My friends that got married over the weekend are in Cabo now
It’s a place I’d like to get to someday
"I am not one of those who think that coming in second or third is winning." -- Robert F. Kennedy
by Ted Bartlett on Oct 27, 2009 7:24 PM MDT up reply actions
Throw back gear
Has anyone found a place online to buy the Josh McDaniel’s light blue hoodie? That’s all my wife wants for christmas. It’s not on NFL.com or the Broncos site…
I’m under the impression it might actually be grey Is this the right one?
http://photos.denverpost.com/photogalleries/broncosimages/#num=content-1402451&id=album-71100
Fantastic, as usual Ted...
Always keep my flask full of Yukon Jack (the high octane model) in my golf bag…Helps me focus…LOL
Always enjoy your contributions…Thanks
Bartlett's Quotations
Thank you for a lot of interesting reading. I stumbled across MHR last winter while surfing for draft news. At first I read and moved on. However, as time wore on, I came to rely on MHR for the latest and most reliable news on the Broncos and other football information. Then, after DP instituted its stupid “premium” category, I now use HorseTracks as my first-stop shopping, and often one-stop shopping, for Broncos news, which gets me DP premium without having to separately log in. You and your contributors, as well as the fan comments, do a great job.
Just joined, My first post...
… I have been a lurker on this site for years, Anyways Ted your ST&NO are always a great read on my daily commute.
I could not agree more on your Jay Glazer opinion, I listen to the Adam Carolla Podcast and Jay was on it, the guy is a name dropper in the purest form…. He’s a weasel. Anyways I’m glad I took the step in to “Membership.”
Cheers
Welcome!
My image is the Circa 1960-’61 Broncos home uniform sock. Some what folk lore to me ... but referred to as the clown sock by my Dad.
by YellowStoneBronco on Oct 27, 2009 8:47 AM MDT up reply actions
Welcome indeed
But, ahem, “…a great read on my daily commute.” ?? Isn’t that a bit dangerous!
Guru is getting interviews, the news just keeps getting more solid, and the discussions are always meaningful.
"Aggression, discipline, accountability, effort" Brian Dawkins 9/29/2009
"Life is a daring adventure or nothing." Helen Keller
"He will always be a slave who does not know how to live upon a little" Horace
by PositivIntegral on Oct 27, 2009 9:53 AM MDT up reply actions
Welcome NFB
Thanks for joining the community
"I am not one of those who think that coming in second or third is winning." -- Robert F. Kennedy
by Ted Bartlett on Oct 27, 2009 7:34 PM MDT up reply actions
Prairie Fire
Time for the Tekes to step it up and hit the Prairie Fires! Tequila and Tabasco!
Or give the rest of the wedding party the So Co and Lime – goes down much easier…
Still got your Creedence...
by OutOfYourElement on Oct 27, 2009 8:58 AM MDT reply actions
Wow, that sounds like a rough one
Incidentally, SoCo and Lime was what we were substituting for the snakebites at the bars. I like SoCo and Lime, but in Cleveland, it’s taken more as a full drink, than as a shot.
"I am not one of those who think that coming in second or third is winning." -- Robert F. Kennedy
by Ted Bartlett on Oct 27, 2009 7:36 PM MDT up reply actions
snakebite
snakebite is different in the UK.
It is a mixture of cider and lager (beer)
students tend to drink a lot of snakebite pernod and black – and then spend a lot of time creating pavement pizza…
great post as always :)
Pavement pizza.
Just an all around fantastic visual image. Thanks for that. :oP
by legendarywalton on Oct 27, 2009 10:36 AM MDT up reply actions
ha! This is the snakebite I know!
Must have learned about it over there, because I was very confused about Ted’s definition. Cheers!
"Take what you can. Give nothing back!"
by Colorado_Kitten on Oct 27, 2009 4:12 PM MDT up reply actions
When I was a drinking man
3 or 4 of us would stand out in the backyard when it was cold, in T shirts passing a bottle of Yukon Jack. Them Orange Peels really had a way of keeping you warm.
Character may be manifested in the great moments but it is made in the small ones -- Philip Brooks
That's a new one on me...
But it sounds good. Thanks for the kinds words, as well.
"I am not one of those who think that coming in second or third is winning." -- Robert F. Kennedy
by Ted Bartlett on Oct 27, 2009 7:37 PM MDT up reply actions
You can do the 9 dot puzzle in 3 lines
as long as it is a real dot and not a mathematical point (in other words, it takes up space). As you’ve drawn it, start in the upper left area outside the box and start your first straight line downward and slanted slightly to the right and pass through the upper left dot on the very left edge of that dot. Pass through the center of the middle dot and the right edge of the bottom dot and extend out past the bottom of the dots. Slant upward and to the right for the middle three dots and then downward and left again for the 3 right hand dots.
You can actually do it with one line if you draw on both sides of the paper and use some creative folding techniques. That’s not thinking outside the box; that’s thinking outside the planet!
Wherever you go, there you are.
Love it
The best Denver Broncos news on the planet.
And extra credit in non-euclidean geometry!
LMAO
"Aggression, discipline, accountability, effort" Brian Dawkins 9/29/2009
"Life is a daring adventure or nothing." Helen Keller
"He will always be a slave who does not know how to live upon a little" Horace
by PositivIntegral on Oct 27, 2009 9:56 AM MDT up reply actions
Not that complicated
Just roll up the piece of paper into a tube and it should be pretty easy, again, assuming dots and not points.
There's at least seven ways to do the nine-dot puzzle.
For example, use a very wide line and just sweep over all nine with one line (the painter’s solution).
Or the geographer’s solution: draw a single line curving around the earth three times, crossing three of the dots on each pass. (Because the “line” curves, it’s not mathematically a line, but really none of the other solutions use lines, they use line segments.)
The “mechanical engineer’s” solution is to cut the dots out from the page, and skewer them all with a pencil.
Amory Lovins from Rocky Mountain Institute (Snowmass, CO) uses these to illustrate creative thinking, to encourage people to realise the 90+% energy savings that are available from smarter design and operation of buildings, industry, etc.
"Remember, it's only a game."
by robswenson on Oct 27, 2009 2:18 PM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
lol at mech engineer solution
I’ll admit that when I was looking at the dots my thought was “The problem here is that the dots are all on the page…”
Precision in thought, concision in style, decision in life.
"That's MR.Styg..."
by Jeremy Bolander on Oct 27, 2009 4:10 PM MDT up reply actions
nickel package
another serious advantage denver has is the ability to run out of the 3 wide receiver set with daniel graham acting as an additional lineman. it’s effective because our RB’s are excellent blockers, so you can keep 7 in to block ( 5 lineman, graham, and moreno) as well as sending 5 out in patterns (3 WR’s, RB, graham).
i believe we have one of the most versitile 3 WR’s sets in the league with graham and moreno on the field.
this forces the ravens to remove a LB and put in a much weaker DB.
i see the gameplan being very similar to the jets game last year, if you remember what we did out of the 3 WR sets to mitigate the run defense of the jets.
When I do the Chalk Talk for Friday...
…I’ll be making that point. To attack the weakness of the Ravens (CBs), I’ll be advocating playing 3 receivers. Good call!
Formerly known as HoosierTeacher or just HT.
"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe
by Steve Nichols on Oct 27, 2009 1:31 PM MDT up reply actions
Real good thoughts DW76
One of the best attributes of the Broncos offense is the extremely high degree of personnel grouping versatility. I do like the nickel offense stuff against Baltimore.
"I am not one of those who think that coming in second or third is winning." -- Robert F. Kennedy
by Ted Bartlett on Oct 27, 2009 7:39 PM MDT up reply actions
"one of?"
Try the most versatile. Or the deepest. Or maybe just the best in order to cover anything else. Just varying the receivers (remember, Scheff can split out and an LB can’t really cover him so IMO he still counts) I can see a ton of combinations possible in a 3 WR set.
Because Montana has no professional sports, I gotta support the land of my birth.
Socrates was once executed for 'trolling'.
^Needs explaining: don't call someone asking uncomfortable, slightly antagonistic questions trolls. In all odds they probably just want to learn. It's real easy to differentiate a 'Socratic' post from a trolling one (unless you're a resident of WCG).
^Needs further explaining: I have yet to post anything on WCG, don't worry, I'm not trying to rationalize anything I've done. I've just lurked over there and man, they are the model of post-peloponnesian war Athens.
Wildcat
if mcnabb is lined up as a reciever, or “H-back”, shouldn’t that be referred to as our own wild horse formation? i do believe we were the first ones to do that.
Favre
I thought that is why Favre got fined for that block in the preseason, because it was considered a crackback since he was lined up out wide. From the nfl.com rules digest:
Crackback: Eligible receivers who take or move to a position more than two yards outside the tackle may not block an opponent below the waist if they then move back inside to block.
So you can cut your man outside, but you can’t come back to the inside and cut someone like he did. Was it Percy Harvin running that formation? I don’t think they pulled it at all during the regular season, but they did do it.
Jason
The Hanging Curve
by poorboywilly on Oct 27, 2009 12:15 PM MDT up reply actions
The problem with naming these formations is that they tend to be "proprietary"
By that, I mean that the Wildcat name is a Miami thing, which gets conflated as universal. I don’t like using those names for other teams. Actually, Miami has mostly lined their QB up outside. The Broncos were the first team I saw move the QB in motion from the wing to his normal place under center, if that’s what you mean.
"I am not one of those who think that coming in second or third is winning." -- Robert F. Kennedy
by Ted Bartlett on Oct 27, 2009 7:43 PM MDT up reply actions
Forte
Ted,
Can you expand on your analysis of Forte, or point me in the direction of a post you’ve already written? I was very high on Forte this year, but now that Cutler refuses to check down and the Bears line looks awful, I’ve definitely soured. I feel like you doubt his physical ability, rather than the surrounding factors.
I think he can be a very special back if put in a west coast system. He’s got a one-cut attitude and good lower leg drive. His hands are very good for a RB. I’d classify him as a top 2 or 3 receiving back. I just wanted to see what I’m missing about him. Obviously, I think he’s being derailed by his team, his coaches, and their scheme.
by legendarywalton on Oct 27, 2009 10:34 AM MDT reply actions
You're not missing a thing lw
unless it’s that his QB won’t utilize him in any part of the offense. It would help if he got a chance to run the ball, but Cutler still thinks that he’s the offense. I have Forte on my FFL team (Yeah stupid I know) so I have been watching closely.
Character may be manifested in the great moments but it is made in the small ones -- Philip Brooks
by KaptainKirk on Oct 27, 2009 11:05 AM MDT up reply actions
Yeah Forte going in the bengals was not that far off his last years numbers
But they are just not getting him his touches .Last year between runs and passes was targeted about 30 times game. He wasnt a 1st quarter monster but a guy who if you keep going to him throughout the game will eventually break one or two via pass or run.He has all but destroyed me in fantasy this year ….
I wonder if part of it is missing Orton.
Not Orton the passer per se but Orton the audibles to a better play guy.
by Dwhite on Oct 27, 2009 2:06 PM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
I think this is a huge part of it as well.
Forte was great last year on check downs and screens, and made defenses respect that. He’s getting almost no love from Jay on those types of plays this year it seems.
I think he is just an average talent as a RB
He’s tall, and he runs upright, and with below average pad level. He’s not particularly fast, quick, or powerful. He does catch the ball well, but you’re right, he’s not utilized enough by Jay Cutler, and Cutler’s short throws are often high and off the mark, putting Forte in the position to get tackled right away, as defenders close ground on him.
Forte can be successful enough, given a good scheme and good players around him. He’s just nowhere near as talented as Cedric Benson, who has elite talent. The implication is that the Bears messed up, but their stance may mirror ours vis-a-vis the QBs; better attitude and intangibles trump talent. Since it looks like Benson’s attitude is better now, maybe not so much.
"I am not one of those who think that coming in second or third is winning." -- Robert F. Kennedy
by Ted Bartlett on Oct 27, 2009 11:20 AM MDT up reply actions
I have to respectfully disagree on Forte
I think its too easy to say he is overrated this year. He’s obviously having a horrible year so far!
There are many reasons why I believe he is struggling. One of them is definitely not that he is overrated. I believe he is better and more talented than Benson.
1) Bears O-line
The Bears are not a good offensive team this year. They replaced 3 offensive lineman who clearly are worse than last year. Cutler is a bit more mobile than Orton and he may end up being sacked more than Orton was last year.
2) Over 370 touches
He had over 370 touches last year and I believe he has never fully recovered from that. If you research the RBs that historically have received over 370 touches, they almost always have a major drop off the following year. Michael Turner is also going through a bit of that this year, but he has a better offensive line. Neither of them have the burst they did last year. Nobody has run well in Chicago, whereas you can see Snelling his hitting the hole better than Turner most of the time.
3) Playing Hurt
I also believe Forte has been playing hurt this whole year. I don’t think he was able to recover from his leg injury that he got near the end of last year. It nagged him all off-season.
4) The Cutler Effect
He is not being utilized the same way as last year. Cutler is not a good check-down QB yet in his career. It’s possible that he may never be. But that is part of what made Forte so dangerous. You have to keep an eye on him on every play. Remember he was responsible for a greater % of his team’s offense than any other player in the league was for their team. And as a rookie. That’s not an avg. player.
5) Evidence from Previous Seasons
I watched him at Tulane and a lot of him last year and this year since I have DirecTV Sunday ticket. He was blowing through holes last year even though their o-line was average at best. He does not have the same burst this year that he had last year.
He also broke a lot of tackles and was elusive and very shifty. I rarely have seen him break a tackle this year. There is something clearly wrong.
I feel strongly that Forte is a rare talent, and the Bears are wasting it away much like they have done with other good/great players. You do not have the type of season he had as a rookie if you are an average player. He was not surrounded with amazing talent that artificially lifted up his value as a football player.
He may have the best hands of any RB in the league. He is a strong route runner. I don’t buy into the pad level argument. He does run upright sometimes but so does Adrian Peterson and he’s the best in the league. He is also good at picking up the blitz. He is one of the most all-around talented players in the league.
by mjames82 on Oct 27, 2009 12:42 PM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
nicely supported response and defense. Good job.
I myself will have to take more time to watch Forte so I can have REAL opinion.
He was over rated last year...
3.9 ypc…thats not great.
He carried a ton and the bears O line which was worse than last year made him a faeture in the game as he was orton’s safety valve time and again.
He’s just not good….a litle above average but thats it.
Those that cant coach, compete!
Failing to plan is planning to fail.
All I want is 53 Rod Smiths. Is that asking too much????
"Peyton Hillis didn’t rip the sleeves off his jersey, they flew off out of fear."
Calijoefornia.
Tatum Bell
averaged more per carry in his career than either Portis or Davis. Does that make him the best back we’ve had in the last fifteen years?
Because Montana has no professional sports, I gotta support the land of my birth.
Socrates was once executed for 'trolling'.
^Needs explaining: don't call someone asking uncomfortable, slightly antagonistic questions trolls. In all odds they probably just want to learn. It's real easy to differentiate a 'Socratic' post from a trolling one (unless you're a resident of WCG).
^Needs further explaining: I have yet to post anything on WCG, don't worry, I'm not trying to rationalize anything I've done. I've just lurked over there and man, they are the model of post-peloponnesian war Athens.
No it doesn't....
But those guys were not crowned world beaters after one season…..Forte was just a big fish in a small pond syndrome!
Those that cant coach, compete!
Failing to plan is planning to fail.
All I want is 53 Rod Smiths. Is that asking too much????
"Peyton Hillis didn’t rip the sleeves off his jersey, they flew off out of fear."
Calijoefornia.
My approach to evaluation...
I tend to try look at traits of a player, and picture how the player would perform in a perfectly-average offense, against a perfectly-average defense (or vice-versa for a defensive player.)
Of course, that’s subjective, but it’s the only way that makes sense to me. I think you have to control for variables as best as you can. So, for that reason, the only thing that changes my mind is visible improvement. Does that make sense?
"I am not one of those who think that coming in second or third is winning." -- Robert F. Kennedy
by Ted Bartlett on Oct 27, 2009 7:46 PM MDT up reply actions
I don't think you've given any proof.
Not to be combative here. But I provided many reasons. He plays behind a very poor offensive line. In the bottom 3rd of the league. It was better last year, but is even worse this year.
You can’t just look at stats and his 3.9 ypc. I’ve watched a lot of his games. What he does when he is in space is impressive and the tackles I saw him break last year along with his blitz pickup is impressive. And he is one of the best RBs in the passing game.
So while playing for an average, if not below avg offense last year, the fact that he was able to produce the kind of rookie season that he had is amazing. The Bears were 14th in ppg and 26th in yards/game. That represents a below avg. offense if you want to use stats.
He was 4th in the league in YPG out of all non-QBs. Don’t give me the he was Orton’s bail out. All RBs who are great in the passing game are a bail out for the QB.
I also believe that he had way too many touches last year as a rookie. Here is a good article on RBs who have great seasons but are overused and most of the time follow those great seasons with a disappointing one. While Forte didn’t have over 370 carries. He still had 316 as a rookie and add 63 receptions and he is over 370. Plus he almost played every snap last year.
http://sports.espn.go.com/fantasy/football/ffl/story?page=nfldk2k9curseof370
I get what you're saying...
My point is, I don’t really have to prove anything. I was granted a platform from which I can say what i think, and I continually re-earn that platform by spending 15-20 unpaid hours per week watching video and writing.
Arguing doesn’t settle anything, and I believe that statistics are only relative indicators, and not definitive arbiters, of quality. I’ve said it many times; I am not in the business of arguing, I am in the business of saying what I think.
What I think of Forte is 100% a function of watching him play, and takes nothing else into consideration. (I definitely don’t base anything on what some fantasy guy at ESPN thinks.) There’s no magic formula, and even if I am the only person on Earth with a particular thought, that doesn’t change anything. Like I told the student at Penn State, I get my information from my eyes, and the only thing that changes my mind is a change in what I see. Actually, people improve or regress all the time, and my evaluations often evolve, but nothing Forte has done has changed my mind.
"I am not one of those who think that coming in second or third is winning." -- Robert F. Kennedy
by Ted Bartlett on Oct 28, 2009 9:12 AM MDT up reply actions
Well I guess I didn't know we were "Arguing"
I thought that’s what this site was partly about. Not only expressing our opinions but sometimes a healthy debate develops.
You have a lot of good insight and obviously you know your stuff. I look forward to your columns every week and appreciate the time you put into them.
However, I have watched most of Forte’s games in the NFL and the main source of my opinion is from my “Eyes” as well. While I don’t put a lot of stock in the opinions of “ESPN fantasy guy,” I do not think that article can be discredited just because it was written by “ESPN fantasy guy.” While not the best source, it doesn’t mean they have nothing good to say. In this case, he gives many facts and data which show that overuse of a RB can lead to a down year the following year. I used the article to support a small portion of my overall opinion that I had already derived based on what my eyes have seen for the past 1 and 1/2 NFL seasons.
One of my points is that you are basing your opinion on an RB that is not playing at anywhere near full strength this year. If you can’t acknowledge his accomplishments as a rookie on a below average offensive team, then I guess that’s where what I thought was a healthy debate has now come to an end. You’re right, to go any further would probably just be arguing. So we’ll leave it at that.
Yes, it's quite possible to watch the same thing and get different answers
"I am not one of those who think that coming in second or third is winning." -- Robert F. Kennedy
by Ted Bartlett on Oct 28, 2009 9:58 AM MDT up reply actions
I think part of Ted’s point is that watching him THIS year, Forte is an average back… blame it on the curse of 370, the Cutler Effect, or whatever… but Forte just isn’t a great RB right now. He’s slightly above average.
That doesn’t mean he can’t improve in future years… or, he could blow out his knee and never recover ala Terrell Davis, etc. But in either case, you primarily evaluate a player “as they are”, not as “they were last year” or even “as they could be next year” (although if you’re looking to make a trade, etc. you’d want to take the latter into account).
Disagree with this, Ted
m. The Dolphins are probably going to miss the playoffs this year, and they’ll look back with regret on letting the Colts and Saints get off the mat, when they had both teams pretty well beaten.
What they will look back on with regret is letting Goodman and Hill get away. But for that, they could have won those games.
IT is, and it's impossible for IT not to be.
Parmenides (5th Century B. C. Greek)
Even though we "Joe Fan" don't get to watch the DB's in action on most plays,
it is evident that they have contributed greatly, especially when we see the quarterback looking, looking and getting sacked. Great job so far by all four of our DB’s.
Yeah, I hate that
I’ll be reading something on MHRU about safeties or coverages or something, and then when I go to watch a game you can’t see any of it. Really quite annoying.
Those guys may have helped....
But I don’t think Miami has a bad secondary, even with rookies Sean Smith and Vontae Davis playing a lot of snaps. Both guys are playing well. Thanks for your input Brad, you may be on to something
"I am not one of those who think that coming in second or third is winning." -- Robert F. Kennedy
by Ted Bartlett on Oct 27, 2009 7:48 PM MDT up reply actions
Now they've lost
starting CB Jason Allen for the year (ACL).
IT is, and it's impossible for IT not to be.
Parmenides (5th Century B. C. Greek)
I don't read all of every article, Ted, but I always do yours . . .
I just enjoy the hell out of your writing.
You complimented the Eagles for thinking “outside the box” in picking up Witherspoon. I couldn’t help but to think of how McDaniels and Xanders thought outside the box so well with pickups of the pedestrian likes of Andra Davis, Vinnie Holliday, Ronald Fields, Russ Hochstein, Jabar Gaffney, and . . . Kyle Orton . . . among others . . . and turned them into bonafide good players, not to mention picking up a “losing” head coach in Mike Nolan to run the defense.
I’m still shaking my head in amazement over these moves . . .
BILLY THOMPSON GOT SHAFTED!!
Yes
No matter whats going on in my day the thought of Mcd swindling 2 1st rounders a 3rd and Orton for Cutler brings a huge smile to my face. Absolutley amazing. As well as all those other moves you mentioned above.
by johnnyurrotten on Oct 27, 2009 12:36 PM MDT up reply actions
The only thing I hate about that trade is that they got Johnny Knox, and we didn't . . .
But then, we did get McKinley, didn’t we? And Orton, Knowshon, Ayers, Phonz, and Quinn . . . and Orton . . . more than make up for that, don’t they?
Wow, what a haul!!
BILLY THOMPSON GOT SHAFTED!!
Great effort, Ted
Your sense of humor and self-described “snarkiness” make your posts something special. Your knowledge of the game and of life are just remarkable. You, sir, have a gift.
Thanks and rec’d.
" Life is what happens while you're making other plans "
The Favre-effect
You hit that one on the head, especially when it comes to Cutler having the same effect. I think Rivers gets some of it too, on MNF I was pretty sick and tired of hearing how good Rivers was at everything. I think he minces garlic too!
Favre was mostly good throughout the Pittsburgh game, and the great drive for a potential game winning TD he orchestrated down the field was regrettably taken back by a totally bogus tripping call (the only person tripping on that play was the ref), but after his two turnovers he didn’t even pretend like he was trying. He was thoroughly embarrassed by his o-linemen beating him down the field in pursuit. Yet, according to the announcers “everyone on that play was amazing, offense, defense, everyone!” And then they go on to blame Chester Taylor for the interception. I know he got his hands on it but the throw was poorly timed and high, Chester Taylor is turning around to see a bail sailing over his head. Come on. The guy is four yards away, Favre has to keep that throw low so Taylor can turn and make a play up field.
Jason
The Hanging Curve
Jay Glazer
My thoughts exactly. Just happened to catch him talking on the radio the other night and my goodness. Just as you said , gloating about eating with Strahan and meeting Dave Chappelle and how cool he was. Please who cares, go get a job with E entertainment.
by johnnyurrotten on Oct 27, 2009 12:32 PM MDT reply actions
Stuart Scott says Vick is an H-back
One too many Bs in that assessment.
by Velveeta on Oct 27, 2009 2:53 PM MDT reply actions 2 recs
LMFAO
Since we’re all friends here, I just wanted to vent, because Glazer makes me crazy, with his “scoopage,” and his name-dropping, and his day-drinking in Beverly Hills. Thanks for listening/reading.
Don't argue with fools. It's how they reproduce.
Cindy Crawford is Hot but....
that’s not really news. Every straight man knows this already. Your point is well taken and GO BRONCOS!!!
Brad James
considering her time in the fashion industry
i’m sure the gays are aware as well.
as long as you're paying attention
I don't know if its just me or not but
I want Denver to try to get Eddie Royal a couple of end-around plays maybe when the opposing D isn’t expecting it, because he has got some burners on him. Here is a video of Eddie Royal’s 71 yard end-around run from last year vs. the Bills. Let me know if this is something you would like us to try this year some more.
http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-cant-miss-plays/09000d5d80d83875/WK-16-Can-t-Miss-Play-A-Royal-run
The Bears
I think a big part of their problem, RE: The blowout, is that their Defense isn’t very deep. Seems like they are missing Urlacher and Tommie Harris big time. They’re not getting much pressure, or stopping the run that well. Their Defense ended up being on the field for nearly 2/3 of the game. When your D is not that great that’s gonna lead to some blowouts. Clearly we all saw last year that Cutler is great with a lead, but not so stellar when trying to come from behind.
I came in here after the draft and didn’t have great things to say about McD and his draft day moves. The Cutler move I felt like was a wait and see. Take back anything bad I said. This team would not be 6-0 with Jay Cutler. Especially with all the 2nd half work this team has done.
Great work as usual TB
Way to bring it on a bye week!
Conversation nonstarters: hoping McDaniels fails, comparing Bears to Broncos, Cutler to Orton, apples to oranges, and casual drinkers to Raiders fans.
saying hey
diehard saints fan here thats in love with a crazy cute, yet crazy broncos faithful. just checking out the page and wanted to say well written and congrats to the broncos. you guys are for real and kicking butt. my hats off to ya
Good sportsmanship
And you can do a lot worse than loving a Broncos fan.
We’ll only have one chance to play you , and that would (will?) fall on February 7, 2010. Hope to see you there!!!!!
Congratulations back: your Saints are winning in much the same way we are: shocking defense and clinical-but-with-more-heart-than-Peyton offence. (Peyton is fantastic, by the way, its just that we have been on the sharp end of his scalpel, so have to find something to disparage about the guy).
Brees is to San Diego > New Orleans
as Orton is to Chicago > Denver
"Aggression, discipline, accountability, effort" Brian Dawkins 9/29/2009
"Life is a daring adventure or nothing." Helen Keller
"He will always be a slave who does not know how to live upon a little" Horace
by PositivIntegral on Oct 28, 2009 10:14 AM MDT up reply actions
Thanks MBT...welcome...you guys are killing it too.....hopefully see you in the SB!
Those that cant coach, compete!
Failing to plan is planning to fail.
All I want is 53 Rod Smiths. Is that asking too much????
"Peyton Hillis didn’t rip the sleeves off his jersey, they flew off out of fear."
Calijoefornia.
About Witten vs. Davis
Great post once again. I really enjoy the variety of stuff that you put up. I was a little surprised, though, that you rate Vernon Davis so highly, especially way ahead of Witten. Jason Witten is one the best all around players in the league at any position. He does everything and anything the Cowboys ask him to. He shifts into the backfield split on one side of Romo with a RB on the other side, he plays in the slot, he plays on the end of the line, and they sometimes put him at fullback. He is the most complete tight end, and he’s team player too, something that can never be said about Vernon Davis. Just look back at what teams have said before or after playing the Cowboys. The Giants, who play them all the time, have repeatedly said that Witten is the hardest tight end to play against. Remember that battle of the undefeateds in 2007 between the Cowboys and Pats? The explosive Cowboys offense was relatively quiet in a game that wasn’t as close as the score maybe indicated. The reason? Because the Pats went in specifically going to shut down Witten. Not TO, not Romo, not Barber. The person they game plan against is Witten. I don’t think that you can say that Davis is by far and away the best tight end in the game after a fast start to this season. Witten has been at the top of the league now for 2 or 3 years. Anyway, just wanted to throw my opinion out there, because even though I don’t watch too much of the 49ers, I do watch a lot of the Cowboys and Witten is ridiculously good.
As mentioned a bit earlier re: Forte, I think Ted evaluates players “as he sees them”. he doesn’t take into account a lot of what they did previous years. Sometimes I think it lets him find things others overlook (Goodman’s play for Miami last year being a great example), but I think it also makes him susceptible overrating small sample sizes.
I agree, Davis has a lot to prove in consistency before I’ll consider him in the same league as Witten. Mutliple seasons should be weighted more than 6 games.
That said, Davis is a fantastic blocker, and has the speed to challenge the seam better than most any TE in the NFL. If he can stay consistent with his route technique (release and cuts) and hands, he has the physcial tools to be the best TE in the NFL, and he’s playing at a very high level this year.
I totally see your point on 1e. regarding Cutler.
I was talking about this with a friend of mine who wanted to see highlights fo Cutler’s bad descisions against the Bengals. Unfortunatly ESPN and NFLN never showed any of those 3 picks along with other plays. Instead they showed every singe point CIN scored. He even told me this is the meda trying to put Culter in a good limelight by not showing any bad things. I feel the same way. I mean it is just like Favre because according to the media he never seems to do anything wrong.
Like you I seemed to rationalize some of the things Cutler did which is normal because as a Bronco fan I can never really look at them without a biased perspective.
Thanks again TB for the good read. I am really looking forward to see how we do in our first big road test of the season. I am confident McDaniels, Nolan and the rest will have our guys ready.
2009 NBA Champions L.A Lakers
2009 NBA Finals MVP Kobe Bryant
Caution is usually appropriate but
first big road test of the season
?? Sorry, mate – we’ve aced that test twice now and are heading off to give Baltimore a test at home.
"Aggression, discipline, accountability, effort" Brian Dawkins 9/29/2009
"Life is a daring adventure or nothing." Helen Keller
"He will always be a slave who does not know how to live upon a little" Horace
by PositivIntegral on Oct 28, 2009 10:16 AM MDT up reply actions
Ok, so maybe not the first.
However, this will be a tough one that I am confident we can win.
2009 NBA Champions L.A Lakers
2009 NBA Finals MVP Kobe Bryant
I was worried about it more at the beginning of the year
But baltimore has been exposed quite a bit lately and i think McDaniels will be able to do even more exposing.
Unless they did some major adjustments over the past 2 weeks I don’t think it will be as big of a test. I think the games we have to worry about most are steelers, giants, Colts. (granted McD prepares for all games) Then I would put Eagles, Chargers and Ravens.
And I want a fast start for once.
Come out guns blazing.
2009 NBA Champions L.A Lakers
2009 NBA Finals MVP Kobe Bryant
A couple thoughts, damn I missed this column:
2e – I too lurked over at WGC. It was great for a laugh, especially when some commenters talked about bringing Shanny in. Now, I know he’s probably the hardest working out-of-work coach in the game right now, fixing the hubris and flaws that brought his downfall here, but they didn’t mention that. I think it’s indicative of the overall success of the franchise for the last two decades or so that we make a coaching upgrade, give away our ‘franchise’ qb, and the team that gets him wants the coach that annointed him qb. If that’s too convoluted, think about this simple statement: they want the coach-qb combo that wasn’t good enough for us!
2t – While that’s certainly a bombshell (and I’m glad Gruden brings that), I miss Tony.
Because Montana has no professional sports, I gotta support the land of my birth.
Socrates was once executed for 'trolling'.
^Needs explaining: don't call someone asking uncomfortable, slightly antagonistic questions trolls. In all odds they probably just want to learn. It's real easy to differentiate a 'Socratic' post from a trolling one (unless you're a resident of WCG).
^Needs further explaining: I have yet to post anything on WCG, don't worry, I'm not trying to rationalize anything I've done. I've just lurked over there and man, they are the model of post-peloponnesian war Athens.

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