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Broncos Thoughts and Musings - A look back at Chargers Week

Denver Broncos running back Knowshon Moreno, center, goes over the top of San Diego Chargers linebackers Tim Dobbins (51) and Stephen Cooper (54) while gaining two yards for a first down in the third quarter of the NFL football game Monday, Oct. 19, 2009 in San Diego.  (AP Photo/Denis Poroy)

More photos » by Denis Poroy - AP

2 months ago: Denver Broncos running back Knowshon Moreno, center, goes over the top of San Diego Chargers linebackers Tim Dobbins (51) and Stephen Cooper (54) while gaining two yards for a first down in the third quarter of the NFL football game Monday, Oct. 19, 2009 in San Diego. (AP Photo/Denis Poroy)

Having taken a 'bye' week of my own, I thought that I'd put together a few musings for the general group. Before getting into the meat of this week's offering, though, I'd like to take a minute to mention a phenomena that has been showing its ugly face around Broncos Country. I'm talking about the problems of our fans having a 'Shanahangover': the sinking belief that the issues of the past years, in which the Broncos look good enough to fool us and lull us into a state of complacency before succumbing to a massive blowout (often to an inferior team) and shattering our dreams, could resurface in 2009. It's a dangerous disease, but fatal only to those who believe that this year's team has something in common with the teams of the past - notably, the past three seasons. Time will tell, but I don't see this happening any longer.

I've read this from a few of the members and in other blogs and sites: "The Broncos have fooled us before." It's true, too, but that was before a new sheriff, deputy, posse, marksman and scouts came into the picture. No matter what you've seen in the past, this team has little or nothing to do with the Ghosts of Seasons Past. The improvement in the coaching, performance of players, attitude and execution is light years beyond what we as fans are used to. Whether it's our team or another, living in the past is an exercise in misunderstanding the present. This is not last year's Broncos. It's a whole new experience.

As an example, Arrowhead Stadium is likely to be a tough place to win; but it's not because the Broncos haven't played well there in the past. They often didn't, but that's not a matter for this year's team. It's a windswept, loud, raucous place to play. It's hard to hear signals if the place is full and I don't take any game lightly, particularly a division rival. While I do think that the Chiefs are in early stages of an upswing, I'm not at all concerned that they're better than Denver or that they will beat us, even in their own house. Our veterans aren't going to take games off and they're not going to let the younger players take anyone lightly. If the Broncos play anywhere near their skill level, they're just too good for most teams. We've got a lot of great contests coming up, but one thing that doesn't concern me at all is the possibility that we will revert to the habits of seasons past. It's not going to happen, so put it out of your mind.

Star-divide

Charging into the Future

Before the Monday Night Football game that extended the Broncos' record to 6-0, Chargers TE Antonio Gates said, "One thing that gives us a chance is that we're still in the hunt in the AFC West. We never said it had to be pretty, and it wasn't pretty last year." After the game, it was a lot uglier. If Gates believes that the Chargers are still in the hunt, he needs to define his terms pretty quickly.

"It's tough to always be in this situation," Gates said afterward. "We didn't plan on being here. We didn't plan on being 8-8 last year either. But here we are. We have to keep working, or it could snowball and turn into a losing streak."

"We didn't plan on getting here." If there are words perfectly suited for failure, I think those should be high on the list. "We didn't plan on being here." Yes, that about covers it.

Bear in mind that they also didn't plan well enough to avoid it. They didn't run the extra sprints that the Broncos endured to get in better shape than their opponents. They didn't make the personnel moves that the Broncos did, realizing that no matter how good you were supposed to be, an 8-8 record will rarely get you into the postseason. They didn't identify the weaknesses that they had, nor the ones that could arise with age, injury and contract status. They didn't do enough to prepare themselves for the fact that Shawne Merriman was very unlikely to have a great year this year. Few will, after the kind of surgery that he had. In short - they didn't plan to succeed, either.

I'm sympathetic to their injury issues among linemen. That's tough and often unpredictable. But even there - is it a shock that Jamal Williams (who's had more surgeries than an aging Hollywood ingenue) would start to break down? Nick Hardwick has had a lot of injuries, plenty of surgeries (and I thought that Scott Mruczkowski did a very good job until Mike Nolan outfoxed him). Igor Olshansky was going to be gone. I wrote last spring about the issues that the Chargers were going to be experiencing, and I'm no expert. So, what happened?

Three things, I'd argue, and all are common: arrogance, lassitude and reversion to the mean. Arrogance in this case includes believing that you can start out poorly season after season and still make up the ground - the continuing decline of their schedule argues against that. But the arrogance also includes the behavior of individuals, including fighting within the team that is seen in public. Then there's lassitude, as in admitting, as A.J. Smith did last February, that the Chargers' woes were in great part on him but not doing more about it. And reversion to the mean: this is a team that has been heading for mediocrity (and how obvious can that be, after going 8-8?) for some time. It needed major help, and it got a few band-aids.

I loved the Kevin Burnett pickup, and it's just bad fortune that he's hurt. I liked the Larry English draft pick, and he's getting there. I also liked the Louis Vasquez draft pick, and he's developing quickly. I can't even fathom the Kynan Forney (who's since been released) or Travis Johnson pickups, though. The Bolts tended to stand pat with a suspect secondary, didn't develop their depth and accepted on faith that bad performances were anomalies instead of facts. It bought them a game in which a stellar performance by Philip Rivers wasn't enough, in which Nolan and McDaniels out-coached Ron Rivera and Norv Turner and in which the best the Chargers could bring wasn't close to enough.

There will, as Merriman pointed out, be a rematch. I look forward to it, and I'm sure the Broncos do. Stating before the game that 'the Broncos can't stop me' wasn't Rivers' smartest move. Claiming that they will get revenge after the game wasn't Merriman's, but I do appreciate the help those things gave Denver. If the Broncos needed any aid in getting up for the home half of this series, which I greatly doubt, they won't after that night's statements.

Arrogance...some things don't change.

Losing the Locker Room

That same arrogance has infected the locker room and the very attitude of the Chargers. You could see in a single moment why the Chargers have problems with their team very clearly during the first quarter of the Monday night game. The Chargers bogged down at the goal line - LaDainian Tomlinson was stopped short of the goal line twice. They took him out on the third play and put in Darren Sproles, trying to take advantage of a seam that Turner had seen. Tomlinson paced the sidelines, obviously complaining bitterly about not being in. The Broncos stopped Sproles and the Bolts short again, and they settled for kicking the FG.

It got me to thinking. Last year at this time, the Chargers were starting slow, appeared unmotivated and perhaps even ill-prepared. Tomlinson was also complaining - about the play calling, the offensive line, and not getting enough carries. Now, imagine that he was in orange and blue. How likely is it that a Bronco would do that - two years running? If you consider that Turner's team has gone from 14-2 before he arrived, to slow starts three years running, you start to see why that might be true. Players fight with management in the media. The GM insults his team, as A.J. Smith did by calling their play 'soft'. Nowhere is there a sign that adults are in charge. Merriman has a public feud with Smith, dating back a couple of seasons. Smith doesn't like his side jobs, feeling that it takes away from the team. LDT fights with Turner, expresses his feelings and tussles with Smith this past offseason, very publicly. Smith gets quickly pulled into it. No one wins.

This past week, it was wide receiver Chris Chambers. A non-factor for quite a while now, he was complaining to the press that his snaps are being taken by Malcolm Floyd. I don't know what he expected - he's not gaining separation, he's not getting open and he hasn't shown a ton of skill at fighting for the ball. But he's still touting himself as if it were three seasons ago and he was doing good things. It's the kind of thing that you're not seeing from the Broncos, the kind of thing that tells you when a franchise is in disarray.

I can't even express my gratitude for the fact that Josh McDaniels has very good management skills. He won't carry arguments into the media, rarely gets flustered and keeps things behind closed doors. I've fired people for the kinds of destructive behavior that I've seen from the Chargers over the past two years. Those who claim that this is football and that it's really okay to have things this way should consider how the Broncos do handle things -- and how their team acts and plays. As in, as a unit. As a real team, one that's going good places. It matters. Once in a while, a dysfunctional team has a good year. Most of the time, though, they flame out, and the talent levels don't matter enough to get them where they want to go. That's happening in San Diego, and while it's good for the Broncos, it's an obvious sign of the Bolts organization needing a makeover.

Asked before the MNF debacle, LDT was asked what he saw in the Charger's locker room. "It's a quiet confidence. You look in each man's eyes in that locker room, you can tell there is something extra."

Did they also see that you'd be pacing the sidelines, yelling and pouting, LDT? Perhaps not. That's one reason that the Chargers are 3 games back. Even worse for the Bolts and better for the Broncos, LDT hasn't been alone.

Beating Kansas City has given the Bolts a brief respite, but that's hardly a road back into the land of the competitive. While I do think that the Denver game as been a wakeup call of Shakespearean proportions for San Diego, their problems run too deep to permit them to make the late season run this year profitable. The game in Denver will be a grudge match. Given the state of the raiders and Chiefs, that's a good thing. It may keep thing much more interesting.

Some Other Stats that Matter (With apologies to Lebowski)

What did the Broncos do right so far this year? It's a long list, but try these perspectives on the rushing game:

  • Stuffs per carry - Correll Buckhalter, 4th, at 0.043 Knowshon Moreno at 9th, with 0.061
  • Stuffed: Best in league - It only happened on 8 plays. Despite the issues that can improve in short yardage, the problem isn't with negative plays.
  • YPC: Buck, 1st, 6.7 Broncos 11th, 4.3
  • Yards: Broncos 7th, 798
  • Big play rushes: tied for 9th, 20
  • 100-yard rushers against: 0
  • 100 yards rushing by opposing teams: 0
  • Passes dropped, over 6 games: 5. Four of those came in the first two weeks. It's all about doing your job and doing it right.

Let's also look at the percentage of rushing versus passing plays. Going back to the offseason, Doug (nycbroncosfan) and I published the "Divining Josh McDaniels" series. We said at the time that McD had been viewed at being more of a passing kind of guy than he really deserved. It was true when McD was in NE and it is true in Denver. We're in 8th, with 47.7% rushing and therefore 52.3% passing - a very even, balanced attack. Over the last 4 years, McDaniels had averaged 43.1% rushing plays. That seems low, but it's not if you look at how the team was structured. In 2008 that number was 46.8% rushing and that was similar to 2006 as well. On the other years, the passing game was working too well to minimize it. Josh McD believes in maximizing all of your skill sets and using the ones that the defense lets you win with, whether it's the pass or the run. As you would expect, he's attempting to make sure hat both are viable options. It's that simple. By getting Moreno, Buckhalter, Orton, the O-line and the receiving corps, he can go either way with complete confidence. That makes it very hard to stop the Broncos' offense.

You might also look at how the aging, decrepit defensive secondary is doing. Teams have been challenging Champ Bailey and Brian Dawkins and getting their hats handed to them. Take a look at these stats:  Bailey is tied for 2nd in the league with 8 passes defensed; Dawkins is tied for 11th with 6.

The Broncos have two players in the top 11 in the NFL in passes defensed -- and both players are over 30. That's a stat that not a lot of casual fans follow, but it tells you a lot about a team. It tells you that the Broncos have age, wisdom and maturity in the defensive secondary. Experienced players know how to communicate and that skill is constantly undervalued. It also tells you that those who believe that Champ Bailey, Andre' Goodman, Brian Dawkins and Renaldo Hill are 'losing a step' need to find their argument. Dawkins and Bailey are among the league leaders and are getting some payback on the 'lost a step' crowd. Andre' Goodman and Renaldo Hill are playing the best ball of their careers. The young guys, Alphonso Smith and Jack Williams, are also paying well and Darcel McBath has already shown why we drafted him on defense as well as by leading the team on special-teams tackles.

I'll be back later today with more Thoughts and Musings...

33 recs  |  Comment 55 comments |

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hmmm....

Stay tuned folks…Em must have broken down this epic post into two parts. This one and the one coming later is easily one of the best reads I’ve ever had.

Easily Rec’d!

Verbose in style, dispersion of thought, procrastination in life.

The guy formerly known as ZAPPA

by Tim Lynch on Oct 29, 2009 11:23 AM MDT reply actions   0 recs

The anticipation is building....

I can’t wait to read it.

Great job Bear and so true about SD.

2009 NBA Champions L.A Lakers
2009 NBA Finals MVP Kobe Bryant

by weazel on Oct 29, 2009 5:14 PM MDT up reply actions   1 recs

Welcome back Bear!

Thanks for the Thoughts and Musings. I also thought LDT’s public display on the sideline was very telling. And I believe it was John who pointed out on MHR Radio the contrast between Sproles’ behavior post-return vs. Royal’s. It just feels like two teams with very different philosophies and heading in very different directions.

by NedBronco on Oct 29, 2009 11:23 AM MDT reply actions   0 recs

must have missed sproles behavior

what did Sproles do?

IMO ever since McDaniels and the Patriots beat LDT his behavior has been questionable.

by trumanj on Oct 29, 2009 2:37 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

he pointed to the name on his back

Because Montana has no professional sports, I gotta support the land of my birth.

Socrates was once executed for 'trolling'.
^Needs explaining: don't call someone asking uncomfortable, slightly antagonistic questions trolls. In all odds they probably just want to learn. It's real easy to differentiate a 'Socratic' post from a trolling one (unless you're a resident of WCG).
^Needs further explaining: I have yet to post anything on WCG, don't worry, I'm not trying to rationalize anything I've done. I've just lurked over there and man, they are the model of post-peloponnesian war Athens.

by Drizzt396 on Oct 29, 2009 2:55 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

The contrast

Sproles made a huge production about pointing to his own name after his punt return. Royal acted like he’d been there before, and after the game, he gushed about the blocking on both returns. Such a huge contrast.

by BroncosBassist on Oct 29, 2009 3:51 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

LDT's attitude has changed over the past few seasons

He isn’t the quiet and cool LDT anymore.

2009 NBA Champions L.A Lakers
2009 NBA Finals MVP Kobe Bryant

by weazel on Oct 29, 2009 5:09 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Seems like ever since he chased the pats off midfield and blew up at the presser

by _Atwater27 on Oct 29, 2009 6:04 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah, that is probably the right time.

2009 NBA Champions L.A Lakers
2009 NBA Finals MVP Kobe Bryant

by weazel on Oct 29, 2009 7:36 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Why they aren't a team like the last three years'

In the last three years, an early surge by the Broncos was made up of impressive plays covering for embarrassing mistakes. I remember constantly feeling like the Broncos were winning in spite of themselves, not because of themselves.

This year it’s very different. Every game, even the close ones, were won because of fundamentally good football. We’re not crushing decent teams, but we’re also not giving any team more opportunities than they deserve. Nothing is more frustrating than watching your favorite team hand opportunities over to the opponent. I don’t remember feeling that yet this year.

by The Finite on Oct 29, 2009 11:24 AM MDT reply actions   2 recs

Kinda depends on your definition of crushing. :)

I’d say that 2 3rd down conversions in the second half, with 10 points allowed is pretty brutal. I agree that there are no blowouts on the scoreboard, but I’d bet more than a couple egos are bruised quite badly after playing the Broncos.

by BroncosBassist on Oct 29, 2009 3:52 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

And I agree with your post, by the way

It’s so refreshing to start to feel like this team wins because they play great football in all phases. It’s taken me some time to put the last three years behind me, but I’m getting there.

by BroncosBassist on Oct 29, 2009 3:53 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Great thoughts Emmett and rec'd.

I think the ability to look at one’s self honestly and appraise the weaknesses that need to be corrected is present in the Broncos organization, but frequently lacking in many others. I too would include SD and Washington and numerous others as failing in this important facet of team building. Xanders and McDaniels seem to be a formidable team in doing the critical self appraisal necessary to affect meaningful change in the organization.

Imagination is more important than knowledge. A. Einstein

by Ponderosa on Oct 29, 2009 11:31 AM MDT reply actions   2 recs

rec'd and agreed

Great article and I have to agree with evry point you make. I also see some of the same type of dysfunction in KC and Oakland. Denver ahs quietly becoem the domnate power in the AFC West .

I also agree that the days of playing down to the level of competition are over as well. This is the best coached the Broncos have ever been form top to bottom.

"My team's on the floor"
Gene Hackman - Hoosiers

by AlanC11 on Oct 29, 2009 12:09 PM MDT reply actions   0 recs

that's not mean to take anything away from past coaches

But rather to recognize just how completely McDaniels has constructed both his staff and this team. It is a formula for long term success that will be hard to duplicate by anyone else.

"My team's on the floor"
Gene Hackman - Hoosiers

by AlanC11 on Oct 29, 2009 12:11 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

I take it that this means

you are feeling better? Definitely a nice bit of work.

Character may be manifested in the great moments but it is made in the small ones -- Philip Brooks

by KaptainKirk on Oct 29, 2009 12:21 PM MDT reply actions   1 recs

Fantastically Superb Read Bear!

Rec’d …would do it twice if they let me.

Thanks for these great posts!

"Precipitation, which side are you on?
Are you on the rise? Are you falling down?
Let me know, Come on let's go, yeah
Got some if you need it!" -EV

by sadaraine on Oct 29, 2009 12:33 PM MDT reply actions   0 recs

Simply AWESOME!!!!!

This bye week not only gave the broncos time to recover, but it seems to have rested your writing muscles. You have come out hard and fast with this post.

If Taylor Swift were to try and tackle me, I'd let her.

by kentuckybronco on Oct 29, 2009 12:34 PM MDT reply actions   0 recs

Great to have you back Doc. Rec'd of course.

I really do love your writing style and insights. They are both world-class.

We admire your humility, but you obviously are an expert at this.

"Remember, it's only a game."

by robswenson on Oct 29, 2009 1:19 PM MDT reply actions   1 recs

+1

I really look forward each week to these, bear.

Phyllis? Phyllis? Are you there? I can't hear you anymore.

by pubkeeper on Oct 29, 2009 3:47 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Good to have you back, Bear

Couldn’t find anything to disagree with in your post. You have a history of smacking the nail soundly on the head and this post is no different.

Hope that you’re feeling better! Rec’d of course.

" Life is what happens while you're making other plans "

by hairybear on Oct 29, 2009 1:28 PM MDT reply actions   0 recs

I've got to agree with Tim (Zap?)

SOme of the best I’ve ever read, and I read a lot.

If this be Hell, let us make the most of it!

by Trinidad Jack on Oct 29, 2009 1:33 PM MDT reply actions   0 recs

Welcome back Doc, I hope the parallel of you and the Broncos bye week,

are indicative of a winning streak.
Nice read as always my friend, you have been missed.
Rec’d ofcourse

Real Power, comes with the realization that One cannot change the Moment;
only ones perception of it: Atitude! JQM

by UB3 on Oct 29, 2009 1:39 PM MDT reply actions   0 recs

This collaboration of player and coaches assembled in such a short amount of time is absolutely mind boggling.

Let’s hope the dolts never learn their lessons and keep on keeping on. I haven’t heard one player from the Broncos say anything like Merriman. Shawne is showing signs of a disability he can’t compete with…his mouth. Great athletes let their actions be spoken on the field of play not in the media. Bully for you Meriman and LDT, keep up the great job.

by bfree2bronc on Oct 29, 2009 2:12 PM MDT reply actions   0 recs

Good stuff, Bear!

Love your notes on the secondary. I’ve never felt more confident in our DBs than I do with this group, ever, even during the Superbowl years.

Conversation nonstarters: hoping McDaniels fails, comparing Bears to Broncos, Cutler to Orton, apples to oranges, and casual drinkers to Raiders fans.

by broncosmontana on Oct 29, 2009 2:31 PM MDT reply actions   0 recs

Great Post

It really illustrates the difference in the McD regime. Gone is the prima donna that thought he could ignor the boss … smacked down and totally repentant is the guy with the bad attitude. We had the chance to fall into the same disarray as the Chargers, our head guys didn’t think much of that option and took a different course dispite all the common wisdom that told them not too.

by Flunkie on Oct 29, 2009 3:28 PM MDT reply actions   0 recs

Great post, bear!

I’m looking forward to part 2, after Zappa’s comment. Keep it comin’, Doc!

by BroncosBassist on Oct 29, 2009 3:55 PM MDT reply actions   0 recs

Great job Doc...as always my friend!

Those that cant coach, compete!
Failing to plan is planning to fail.
All I want is 53 Rod Smiths. Is that asking too much????
"Peyton Hillis didn’t rip the sleeves off his jersey, they flew off out of fear."
Calijoefornia.

by boydy2669 on Oct 29, 2009 5:22 PM MDT reply actions   0 recs

My fears have been erased

During the bye week…I kept thinking about the upcoming games and began to worry a little. I guess I had a ‘Shanahangover’…thinking the Broncos might let up a little, lose that edge, that toughness. UNTIL…I heard McDaniels press conference on Monday. The man has it together and I am confident the Broncos will be ready to play each and every week. Not only does the coach flow with confidence…it spreads to the players and even the fans. Watch out Ravens, here we come!!

Talk is for Losers and Fools.

by Victim of Love on Oct 29, 2009 6:29 PM MDT reply actions   0 recs

The Broncos could lose every game from here on out

…and so long as they are competitive in every game, I’d write the losing streak off as a fluke by a good team.

by JeffG on Oct 29, 2009 7:34 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Doc, Bear or whatever your "nickname" is....

I really find it “amusing” how you have nothing else to write about. You’re still high on something alright. Get off your soapbox. For you to write" such a LONG story you must be very winded now. Just couldn’t get it all out into the air and on the website. Dude, you crack me up. I’ve always said that a team will be good off and on thru different coaches and players. The roster is always changing and the “high” will never stay. Good things NEVER last forever. Enjoy it while you can. Yes, the Chargers are going thru a tough time now but I stick with it because I know it won’t last. Just like you Donkeys. You’re down and then you’re up. Merriman is embarrassing. He’s gonna be turning off the lights for sure. On his own party. Younger and stronger guys will come along and take the positions they’re good at and the old timers will be gone.

But since you’re writing about how great the Donkeys are, how about writing some NFL history facts. Yeah it’s silly that LT paced back and forth but frustration has no friends. His NFL records speak for itself. I think a little pacing on the side lines was due. The coach can kiss HIS ass. Turner is an oldie and time to go. Same as Shanahan was.

All in all, I think it’s funny how you have this need to continue talking about that game. Most people move on but I forgot, you’re still a young kid. Please, try writing a real story about the real NFL and the 50 years. Broncos, Chargers who gives a crap. Come out of your cave and open your eyes, young kid.

by Boltzdude on Oct 29, 2009 7:34 PM MDT reply actions   0 recs

Looks like somebody had his widdle feewings hurt

And not just Philip Rivers, from having a great big pile of Bronco atop him for the majority of the game.

ZING!

by JeffG on Oct 29, 2009 7:36 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Hey, I have an idea Jeff wee wee....

Let’s wait and see which QB has the best numbers at the end of the year!

by Boltzdude on Oct 29, 2009 7:45 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Holy shiv..

I didn’t know Charger Fans were literate..

Are you upset because he used big words or because he hit home with points about the Chargers?

Also nice work on closing redundantly.

by _Atwater27 on Oct 29, 2009 7:52 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

All in a days fun...

“Are you upset because he used big words…” – Big words…. now I’m laughing.

“…because he hit home with points about the Chargers?” Now I’m ROTFLMAO

Thanks for the laughs guys or girls….

by Boltzdude on Oct 29, 2009 7:55 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Really you are Clueless and a Troll

We find it amusing that you come here acting like you know everything. Everything bear said in this post is completely true. I live in Southern Cali and know quite a bit of Chargers fans that actually know something about football. Everyone Bolt fan I know would agree with everything said in this article. The Chargers are a completely dysfunctional team from the GM all the way down to the practice squad players. Norv Turner and AJ Smith has completely run this team into the ground the past few years by bad drafting and not filling obvious holes. You are like most Charger fans because you have no idea what you are talking about. You try to start an argument but have nothing to back up your claims. The truth is the Chargers have been bottom feeders for their entire existence. They get to the playoffs every so often but they alway CHOKE and they have never won a SB. The Broncos Chiefs and Oakland all have stronger NFL Histories then the Chargers and you are BLIND and living in a CAVE if you do not see it. Next time you come here try to bring a real discussion with some real thought. Interesting that you joined this blog only a few days ago and did so only to act like a bad ass and try to pick a fight. You should go over to the Charger blog and never come back here. It is obvious that you lack the intelligence to have a decent conversation about football and it is obvious that you have not clue about your own team.

by gnarlybroncodude on Oct 29, 2009 8:00 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Like team, like fan.

If this be Hell, let us make the most of it!

by Trinidad Jack on Oct 30, 2009 11:46 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Nice of you to stop by

Although flagged for language – this is a family site.

We also tend to things like rational, civil discourse on MHR. You seem a bit short on facts. I’ve been a fan for over 50 years, so thanks for thanking that I’m still a spring chicken. I’m writing about this particular game because I’m disabled and it took me longer to finish writing this week’s column, thank you. As far as my needing facts – I notice that you didn’t refute any of them. Just venting, eh? Well, that happens when your team gets kind of mouthy and then loses. No harm done.

However – you’re statement on how I should write about football history shows that you haven’t read anything here before. My articles on the history of the NFL, coaching trees, passing game, running game and the draft are on the search engine. Being a troll isn’t hard, but if you want to stay – bring some kind of rational debate.

For the folks who are intelligent, rational members, though, there’s a discussion of the Coryell teaching system and it’s reflection in the current Baltimore passing attack under Cam Cameron coming up tomorrow – Doug will edit it tonight. It’s been in line for a couple of days – ironic, isn’t it?

Moreno/Buckhalter in '09

by Emmett Smith on Oct 29, 2009 10:10 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Thanks bear for the great post and my eyes have been open for a long, long time.

I do have one question for a chargers fan and it seems reasonable to me. Why did the chargers let Marty go when they went 14-2 the season before?

by bfree2bronc on Oct 29, 2009 10:42 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Hi spring chicken.... I'm back!

50 years. Guess that makes us even. You know…. I’m not short on facts, I’m typically not one for blabbing a bunch of stats. Over the “years” I’ve sat and listened to stats out of people’s mouths and I cringe when they’re trying to sound like they know ALL about football. Yeah, yeah and I’ve also heard that if you don’t quote facts “You don’t know what you’re talking about.” You get to my age and you’re lucky if you remember where you left the house keys. Maybe one day I’ll ramble off a bunch of stats for you. But you’re right about reading here before. A friend of mine said I should go to this website. Whatever, I don’t plan on staying around.

I do have to say the “gnarlybroncodude” is somewhat correct regarding the Chargers staffing. But he’s wrong about the Chargers being, what was it?…. “bottom feeders”. That’s Funny.

Arrogant…. wow another good one. I’m thinking right now of the many times I’ve read the arrogance from within the Bronco community. Face it… many fans from all walks of life and teams can be arrogant.

So Emmett, keep on writing and maybe I’ll stop by again one day to have some history discussions. One thing for sure… I’ll never forget the game between Chargers and Broncos Dec 17, 1979 with Dan Fouts and “air Coryell”. Fouts was named UPI player of the year. Oh, and let’s not forget he’s in the Hall of Fame. Something like a career passing record of 40,000 yards? Pretty sure that’s the number. And if my memory serves me correctly that season for the Chargers was considered one of the greatest passing offense in NFL history. “Air Coryell”… but you knew that.

So to all those and especially to “gnarlybroncodude” the Chargers DO have some years in the past with great players and the team wasn’t “bottom feeders” like you say. But you probably weren’t born then Gnarly. Who knows, maybe it would be a good thing for the Chargers to head north to LA. New stadium, new GM, new coach, who knows. One thing for sure, the stadium wouldn’t be built on top of a landfill such as Mile High.

by Boltzdude on Oct 31, 2009 8:13 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Troll alert...

Why respond to this. Truth hurts and Doc hit it out of the park.
The fans are like the team: arrogant and clueless

Those that cant coach, compete!
Failing to plan is planning to fail.
All I want is 53 Rod Smiths. Is that asking too much????
"Peyton Hillis didn’t rip the sleeves off his jersey, they flew off out of fear."
Calijoefornia.

by boydy2669 on Oct 30, 2009 6:00 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Good point boydy.

If this be Hell, let us make the most of it!

by Trinidad Jack on Oct 30, 2009 11:48 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

That's a good one, bfree

AJ Smith just announced that he didn’t see Marty as ‘able to win the big one’. This isn’t as unusual as it should be – Paul Brown announced, when he stepped down in Cincinnati as head coach – that he didn’t believe that BIll Walsh could be a successful HC and hired someone else. Time proved him wrong, but it’s not that uncommon for a coach to believe that someone who has been successful (see Plummer, Jake) can’t be effective in the big game.

It’s also frequently a bad decision. Usually, success breeds success. Norv Turner hasn’t done much one some levels. AJ criticized his own job in the wake of the 2nd V. Jackson DUI last year and talked about how he needed to do a better job getting high character players. In almost the same breath, he said that the Chargers didn’t need to make many changes. That kind lack of consistency and clarity could have contributed to the issues they have. Perhaps Norv Turner just is a great offensive coordinator(I believe that he is) but isn’t as good a head coach.

Whatever the root of the problem, dumping Marty does not, in hindsight, seem to have been all that great an idea. There will always be debate as to how big a role it plays.

Moreno/Buckhalter in '09

by Emmett Smith on Oct 30, 2009 3:46 AM MDT reply actions   0 recs

Chargers/Broncos

How convenient that you chose “arrogance” as the root of all Chargers’ problems and paint the whole team with a black brush. So A.J. is a jerk. So what. Marty choked every
time it came to the playoffs. Smearing the whole team, incl . Merriman shows your true colors. Zero substance. Guess last year never happened. Guess the Broncos were just
too “arrogant”.

by montanacharger on Oct 30, 2009 12:34 PM MDT reply actions   0 recs

Gald that you stopped by

“The root of all of it’ is an overstatement, of course. I also pointed out that you’ve had injuries, but that AJ failed the team this offseason. You’re also just getting bad play from your offensive and defensive lines as well as your secondary. Chambers, as noted, has been a non-factor. Those seem to be substantial issues. I don’t have any reason to change my mind and you certainly didn’t give me one.

‘Substance’ is an interesting accusation because you didn’t cite a single fact. Other than – “I don’t like you or what you say” your post was meaningless. Generally, on MHR, we like to stick to rational civil discussion. Feel free to join in.

Moreno/Buckhalter in '09

by Emmett Smith on Oct 30, 2009 1:08 PM MDT reply actions   0 recs

Confused

Nice post. I’m confused about one thing. Why are there charger trolls coming around? What makes someone even want to troll other fan sites and leave inflammatory posts?

by NDbronco on Oct 30, 2009 1:56 PM MDT via mobile reply actions   0 recs

Reply

Chargers e-mail alerts picked it up, that’s why. And Emmet…… The word “arrogance” nullifies any attempt to create and establish a meaningful discourse between anyone other than a Bronco fan to another Bronco fan. It’s basically a kiss-up to the boys on the block. I will be first to admit how terrible the Chargers are on the lines and cohesiveness is out the door. You got to wonder about Turner et al. And the Broncos just look nothing but great this year. Let’s see if they can hold the status quo. It’s very impressive and refreshing, as it wasn’t expected for any of us. The tripe about LT on the sidelines , Rivers, and Merriman is nothing but blowing up the B-Fans rears, period. Very “unrational” civil discussion. Sorry to “Troll” on your precious blog.HeeHee.

by montanacharger on Oct 30, 2009 2:10 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Curious

What was your take on LT on the sideline during the SD-Denver game? Has that affected the team at all or do you see that as overblown?

Phyllis? Phyllis? Are you there? I can't hear you anymore.

by pubkeeper on Oct 30, 2009 2:41 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Nicely snide, but not very accurate

I disagree with your premise, which is really why you’re offended. It’s unimportant to me that it’s the Chargers in this case – I’m tough on ANY team where the players are arguing with management in the press and where the GM feels the need to make his statements in the press when he should be speaking to people in private. It’s really not my concern whether you agree with me or not – the proof of what I’m saying is stalking around on your sideline and splashed across your newspapers.

I live in SD County, watch the shows and one thing that has really stood out is that the players don’t seem to have the same idea of who a team works that the Broncos have manifested this year. It stands out and it weakens the Chargers. I don’t ‘kiss up’ to anyone, but that includes those Chargers fans who don’t like dealing with a recognition of the problems on their own team. This is the third year in a row when the Chargers have started badly. They lack concentration as a team, they have issues with cohesion and that may, as of this year, have cost them their window. Why blame the messenger?

Last year there are a lot of Broncos who were more interested in their own stat lines than the performance of the team. Most of them were tossed. Did I note their faults at the time? Absolutely. Was I critical of players like Nate Webster? Sure. Maybe you should accept that when your players are getting their images splashed across national TV, cussing and complaining after not performing well, that their egos are so far out of balance that their actions are hurting their own team. That is arrogance. It was arrogance when Cutler wouldn’t admit his own failings and it’s arrogance when LDT has to keep himself in the spotlight despite not performing well on the same series.

One of the things that has gone on here on MHR has been looking at WHY the Broncos have turned it around. Dumping players who can’t handle their own egos (or making them toe the line, as in Marshall’s case) has been high on the list. If I come over to BFTB and get snide, that would be arrogance as well. When I notice that your team appears out of control, that’s an unpleasant fact for Chargers fans, but it isn’t going away because you don’t like it.

Moreno/Buckhalter in '09

by Emmett Smith on Oct 30, 2009 3:57 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

WOW obsess much with the CHargers???

Reading all these blogs the Chargers are mentioned in almost all of them……. It must be a knee jerk reaction from the whipping the Broncos got from the Chargers last year getting booted from the playoffs and emabarrassed on National TV.

First of all, there is no player nicknamed “LDT” its “LT” dont be a hater, everyone in sports calls him LT and he earned it, Lawrence Taylor is old, retired and probably in jail right now. “LT” mad on the side lines, unhappiness in SD, shows what a piece of CRAP coach can do for a team, Shanahan was a good coach, he just didnt have the cajones to clean house. Any true honest SD fan would trade anything for McDaniels right now.
Try blaming LT, superstar in the NFL, Campbells soup ad stardom, then some shmuch of a coach is hired after you go 14-2 who drags you to 6-6 and no one will fire him, yeah I think I might shake my head too.
Den won in SD, big deal, without two freakish special teams errors that SD hadnt made all season before that game, and Den hadnt accomplished, DEn would have lost the game.
Before you all go having fantasies that SD is gone 4ever and Den is superbowl bound wake up, the toughest part of your season is ahead. Face is even Denver die hards thought you were pretenders after lucky win at cincy and last minute at home against NE, The win in SD was the first quality win. win the next two and Den is a contender, I dont think so…..

by zonacharger on Oct 30, 2009 4:25 PM MDT reply actions   0 recs

Feel free to vent at any time

If calling him by his initials – LDT – is ‘hating’, your skin has gotten too thin to be posting. I don’t blame you for feeling bad right now though – you may be right about the coach. I have enormous respect for Turner as an OC but I’m still not convinced that he can handle the next step.

Denver beat the Chargers in all three phases of the game – take a quick look at the second half stats if you doubt it. By the way, Chargers the first quality win? lol. Beating New England and Dallas didn’t count? They all go down as W’s.

SD was beaten by a better team this game. Best of luck in the next one.

Moreno/Buckhalter in '09

by Emmett Smith on Oct 30, 2009 4:37 PM MDT reply actions   0 recs

what a fascinating

“slice” of the charger faithful we are getting… I don’t think any of these guys are from BFTB…just one and dones, like this was a newspaper messageboard…

But they aren’t in all capslock, so I guess I can be grateful for that…..

Precision in thought, concision in style, decision in life.

"That's MR.Styg..."

by Jeremy Bolander on Oct 30, 2009 5:28 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Very amusing.

Character may be manifested in the great moments but it is made in the small ones -- Philip Brooks

by KaptainKirk on Oct 30, 2009 8:55 PM MDT reply actions   0 recs

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