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Broncos Thoughts & Musings, Part 2: What is Kyle Orton's Future in Denver?

Denver Broncos coach Josh McDaniels, right, talks with his quarterback Kyle Orton (8) as the team warms up prior to an NFL football game against the New England Patriots on Sunday, Oct. 11, 2009, in Denver. (AP Photo/Barry Gutierrez )

More photos » by Barry Gutierrez - AP

about 1 month ago: Denver Broncos coach Josh McDaniels, right, talks with his quarterback Kyle Orton (8) as the team warms up prior to an NFL football game against the New England Patriots on Sunday, Oct. 11, 2009, in Denver. (AP Photo/Barry Gutierrez )

One of the great stories so far this year is the synergy between Josh McDaniels and Kyle Orton. It doesn't take a football genius to see that they are nearly perfect for each other. As always, McDaniels likes to keep things understated. There are no stars in his locker room. When he coached Tom Brady, he would regularly make a point of calling him out in from of the team, as did Bill Belichick. the message was simple - no one is above the rest of the team. Orton is exactly the guy to take that approach with - he is one of the rare players who wants to know where his game is weak, no matter the wins.

"He tries to get better," McDaniels said of Orton, who has improved to 27-12 as an NFL starter (17-2 at home). He knows he's not where he could be if he continues to improve and he sees there are plenty of things he can fix and get better at. He has played better and better each week," McDaniels acknowledged. "There are no limitations in terms of him running our offense."

Given the numbers Orton is starting to put up, that's a very interesting thought. Orton was named AFC offensive player of the week after his performance in a 20-17 overtime win against New England. He completed 35 of 48 passes for 330 yards and two touchdowns. Then he went into San Diego and outplayed Philip Rivers, with a QB rating of over 100, 2 more TDs and another goose egg on INTs. Considering that he both can and will improve, the Broncos are going to be a headache for every team they play.

Star-divide

 

To put it mildly, Orton wasn't exactly an instant success in Denver. Thinking back to his shaky start in the first preseason game, in which he was intercepted three consecutive times on consecutive drives, Orton was thankful for what had happened. As he seems to do with everything, Orton saw it as a positive.

"I just thought about that this week" Kyle said "And I actually took that as a positive. I'm serious. There was a lot of doubt about me locally, but not from the coach. It was great to have a game like that and have the coach back me the way he did, with no reservations. That's the first time in my career that ever happened to me. I know my game. I'm not a turnover guy. Now I had a coach who knew I wasn't either. It was really the first time that I ever had that.''

Orton may be too classy to dwell on it, but the lack of respect from his own coaches in Chicago had to leave some scars. Kyle is glad to be out of that situation. Still, it didn't do much harm to his confidence or his calm. This is not the kind of man who tends to rattle. The level of confidence around the Broncos locker room, of course, goes far beyond just Kyle.

"We have got a confident group here from top to bottom," McDaniels said. "I think they trust our game plans, and I think we trust them to execute our game plan."

As for Orton, McDaniels said that he has nothing but faith in him, no matter what the critics have said...

Of those same critics, few of whom seem to have any real knowledge of football, Orton recently said,

"It doesn't bother me one way or the other. If you are talking good or talking bad, I don't think they have got a very good idea of what my real job actually is."

Frankly, the more I've learned about Orton from McDaniels, the more I think that's an understatement.

A 98-yard drive was part of Orton's 330-yard day behind center against New England when he threw 48 times and completed 72.9 percent of his passes -- both career highs. Then came San Diego and his 20-29, 229, 2 TD and 0 INT performance, leading his team from behind to victory yet again. Arguably, they were the two finest games of his career. He's leading the league in the 4th quarter. He just keeps getting better.

This is about Josh McDaniels, and it's about Kyle Orton, but it's also about the team buying into the system, team and organization - offense, defense and special teams. It's also about the team protecting their coach and their quarterback. Just ask Brian Dawkins; after the New England victory, he said...

"We went out to win this game and we had to win it first of all for ourselves. But you best believe we wanted to send him (McDaniels) off with a victory."

If some are surprised by Orton's growth, keep in mind that other QBs do know about Orton. Said Philip Rivers, "I remember Purdue, and he was a heck of a quarterback there and threw for a bunch of yards. Kyle, I think his record speaks for itself, what he's done in this league in Chicago and in Denver now. He's really got those guys going."

Orton leads the league in 4th-quarter QB rating at 142.5. His overall rating is 100.1. His record is 6-0. Suzy Kolber quotes him as saying that he's learned more in 4 months with McD than in 4 years at Chicago, and it shows. Congratulations to a nice guy who finishes first - over and over.

Decision making, accuracy, intellect and playing smart are more important than anything else in this system. Some QBs want to have more freedom than the system gives and some wouldn't like the hours and effort or the lack of personal glory that it takes. The Broncos need a man who is more smart than physical, whose first skill is in his work ethic, whose second is his intellect but who is still talented physically and is, most of all, accurate. Most of all, Josh McDaniels needs a QB who takes care of the ball, never puts his team in jeopardy by forcing the ball, who wants to learn and who will do whatever the team wants or needs him to. That's Kyle Orton. Orton will be much as Steve DeBerg was (but better) or even Steve Young (who was a better QB than he's become a prognosticator). He's perfect for the system and he will stay within it. That other player would have given up the ball too many times for McDaniels way of playing. There would be blood in the water if Orton had set the NFL standard for INTs in the red zone over the past two seasons or fumbled 7 times already this season.

Orton has a coach who nurtures and challenges him and the players around him to make him a winner. The Broncos will give him the check and he'll take a little less than he could get elsewhere, too. He's not as ego driven as many QBs are. He just wants to be a part of something greater than himself and to be appreciated for what he does. He's going to stay in Denver for a long time and we're going to love having him here.

PS - If you haven't treated yourself to listening to Coach Tiller of Purdue talking about Orton, here's your chance. Don't miss it. 

History Repeats Itself

Which brings up another question that is being asked a lot: will the Broncos pony up to keep Kyle Orton? On that same point - will Orton take less than he could get elsewhere to stay? I admit to having no concerns at all about this, but it's not that I've placed my head in the sand. There's a historical reason for my complacency that can be summed up in two words - Bill Walsh. The history of Walsh and his quarterbacks is intricate and complex, but this year's Broncos are the best example of history repeating itself that I can recall.

From an offseason article I wrote, Peyton Hillis, Hands and History:

Beginning with the accurate but truly noodle-armed Virgil Carter, with Cincinnati in 1971, Walsh taught his quarterback to throw so well that he went from a less than 50% lifetime completion average to leading the league at 62.2%. Walsh taught him to throw short passes with a very high rate of completion and very, very few interceptions. After he would leave Cincinnati, Walsh moved on to the San Diego Chargers where he dealt with the momentous issues of Dan Fouts' mechanics, decision-making and footwork before moving yet again, this time to Stanford and continued to groom quarterbacks and re-write offensive strategy. By the time he achieved his dream of becoming an NFL head coach in San Francisco, Walsh had worked his program out to a science.

What really made his system unique, however, in addition to the more famous timing routes, was the emphasis that Walsh placed on reducing the number of decisions that the quarterback made. For example,with Fouts, Walsh taught him to look for the open man rather than trying to read the opposing teams' defense. Howard Mudd's name has been in the news quite a bit recently - he's one of the 'coaches' for Indianapolis who will be hired back as a 'consultant' in a blatant and utterly forgivable work-around on the NFL retirement rules. At that time, Mudd was the offensive line coach for the San Diego Chargers, and he summed up this circumstance up by saying, "Bill Walsh made Dan Fouts."

How did he do this? For one thing, Walsh was a genius at developing a young quarterback's timing, flow, rhythm and footwork. He took Steve DeBerg, a 10 round draft choice who presided over the lowest scoring offense in the NFL in 1978. His completion percentage was a whopping 45.4%. After a year under Walsh's tutelage, it was up over 60%. This wasn't an isolated incident, either. Jack Kemp had completed less than 1/2 his passes n his career with the LA Rams, but when he came in for an injured Joe Montana with the 49ers he threw nearly 60% and led the league in passer rating. Such was Bill Walsh's magic.

But there was an aspect that has gotten far less notice. Walsh did not believe in the idea of the quarterback as the most important player on the field. To Walsh's mind, the head coach was the most important player and the rest production assistants in his set. He once said, "The performance of a quarterback must be manipulated. To a degree, coaching can make a quarterback and it is certainly the most important factor for his success. The design of the teams offense is the key to a quarterback's performance. One has to be tuned to the other."

Josh McDaniels belies a lot of the things that Bill Walsh did. While Walsh was an iconic quarterbacks and offensive coach, McDaniels is probably more well-rounded as a manager as well as a head coach. He's certainly more centered. Orton is tuned to McDaniels, and Josh is tuned to Kyle. If anything has been obvious so far, I'd say this is pretty plain. Neither is going to let this one get away.

Please consider that for all the comparisons Denverites tend to make regarding this QB or that one, Orton's numbers are headed into a rare and almost unknown territory for a Broncos QB. I had predicted, based on what I'd seen of Kyle, the film I watched of him, his known strong areas, what I'd seen of Josh McDaniels and how I thought that they would interact, that his completion rate would go up, perhaps sharply, that his skill set would fit the system and that he would be happy, productive and an almost new player once he mastered that system. Sometimes I'm wrong; this time I was right. But another thing I'll continue to predict is that we haven't seen anything yet.

Bill Walsh always used to say, "The first year, we teach the player the system. The second year, we develop his skills within the system." He also liked to add,

"The ability to help the people around me self actualize their goals underlines the single aspect of my abilities and the label that I value most: Teacher." (from "The Score Takes Care of Itself: My Philosophy of Leadership," by Bill Walsh, Steve Jamison and Craig Walsh). McDaniels, too, loves to teach. Kyle Orton loves to learn. They're perfect for each other.

Think about this for a moment. Orton has been learning the system for about 6 months. He's been playing within it for just a few - about 4, a little less. He has the O-line that Walsh wished he had, the receivers that Walsh wanted and he's also being given a lot of support from his coach. That coach stepped up, wanted him, didn't wish that he was someone else and is teaching him how to be the greatest player that he can be. I've already covered his numbers; so I won't bore you, but look back at them, consider these statements of Walsh's and also consider that it's been said that to learn - really learn, so that it's instinct - the McDaniels/NE version of the system takes about 3 years. What that really means is that Orton will continue to be improving, in measurable and immeasurable ways, on the performances and numbers that he's putting up and to do so for a long time yet. Can you get better than 6-0? Sure - every week, beyond that bye, we'll have that chance.

Now, based on these facts, someone needs to explain to me why the Broncos won't offer him the money and why he won't take it. Because I'm not following that one at all.

Tomorrow morning I'll offer up my Thoughts on the Broncos' trip to Baltimore. Go Broncos!

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Awesome

I got chills reading this one.

What is scary is that our Defense is on the verge of being something just as special. We could be looking at a team that is complete- as much as any in our past. Still a long ways to go, but I look at it in a glass-half-full kind of way.

Great post sir!

MARK IT ZERO!!!!
Dude, this is a league game, this determines who enters the next round robin. Am I wrong? Am I wrong?
You mark that frame an 8, and you're entering a world of pain.

by waltersobchakbronco on Oct 29, 2009 5:23 PM MDT reply actions   0 recs

Awesome writeup

If only writers in the MSM were 10% as good as the staff here on MHR. I dunno if you’re a part of it, Emmett. But you sir, are equally as good. Duly rec’d.

"Sorry Jay, you're with Chicago now. You need to stop calling me.
It ain't intra-murals son, it's PRO-FOOTBALL. There's no mulligans."
-desibroncofan as Pat Bowlen (with a dash of Dan Hawkins, thrown in for good measure)

by desibroncofan on Oct 29, 2009 5:28 PM MDT reply actions   0 recs

great post,

love the walsh insight. hope we see this development happen… could be on the beginning edge of something great!

"I just looked across the huddle to see the guys in the huddle with me: great offensive line, great talent at wide receiver, great tight ends, great running backs. If we execute and play the way that we should, it should be tough to stop us."
-K.O.

by denver_diaspora on Oct 29, 2009 5:36 PM MDT reply actions   0 recs

Stellar!

You had me at Hello.

Character may be manifested in the great moments but it is made in the small ones -- Philip Brooks

by KaptainKirk on Oct 29, 2009 5:41 PM MDT reply actions   0 recs

Nice read doc,

Sorry for being ignorant.. what is the Walsh connection? Was he someone that Belicheck learned under?

How did he influence Josh?

Thx :-)

by HorseStance on Oct 29, 2009 5:44 PM MDT reply actions   0 recs

A philosophical influence is what I took away from the comparison.

"My job description is to win football games. I'm a hard worker. I'm not flashy by any means, but my job is to play football and win and I plan to do that." Kyle Orton

by odarol on Oct 29, 2009 5:47 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yes, but that and more

Bill Walsh is one of the main branches of the passing game. I’ll actually cover this tomorrow – there’s a sort of Part III – but Walsh is one of two central branches that have dictated the way that the passing game has evolved. Josh McDaniels uses Walsh teachings every time that he walks out on the field.

And yes, philosophically, Walsh had a lot to each those who have come after. His level of understanding of how to teach was rare. His ability to tear apart the defense was unusual. He taught QBs in much the way that McDaniels does. No coddling, no starry accolades, just a heck of a lot of hard work and results that are well worth the effort.

The QBs under McD seem to be following the Walsh paradigm, which was that the coach could bring out in the QB a level of understanding, ability, technique and performance without which the player would never have reached his full potential. Walsh did that innumerable times. It’s my perception, and belief, that McD is doing the same with Orton.

Moreno/Buckhalter in '09

by Emmett Smith on Oct 29, 2009 6:22 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

On your recommendation Bear,

I watched all of Orton’s games this summer from his last year in Chicago. I’ve always liked the guy (a lot), but I still wasn’t sold on his ability. I trusted, though, that you have a better eye than me and it looks like you indeed do. Well done and thanks!

by NedBronco on Oct 29, 2009 5:45 PM MDT reply actions   0 recs

I'm glad that you enjoyed that, Ned

It’s hard to watch him objectively and not see how good he can be. As many of us mentioned, with a good O line, receivers and a very good offensive scheme, he has the potential to be extremely good

Moreno/Buckhalter in '09

by Emmett Smith on Oct 29, 2009 7:23 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Simply superb review of KO and McD.

I believe we will see a whole new level of excellence in the coming years from Orton as he learns the system and it becomes automatic.

Imagination is more important than knowledge. A. Einstein

by Ponderosa on Oct 29, 2009 5:48 PM MDT reply actions   0 recs

Great article.

I have really enjoyed watching Orton play with the help of MHR. After reading here I’ve learned not to look for the flash, but the consistant and level headed play of Orton.
Btw.. MHR, Cutler, and Orton have taught me to love one of the most boring plays in the game, the throwaway pass. After so many INTs, and a MHR education, watching Orton toss it to the sidelines makes me think ‘smart play’ and reflect on how much better our team is and will be over the next few years.

"My job description is to win football games. I'm a hard worker. I'm not flashy by any means, but my job is to play football and win and I plan to do that." Kyle Orton

by odarol on Oct 29, 2009 5:57 PM MDT reply actions   0 recs

Nice job Doc...

I keep hearing QB names thrown around regarding next year’s draft, and I just don’t get that one either. They say KO can’t do this, or he is only a manager, etc. Someone on a fansite wrote that maybe if we won the Super Bowl, he would be ok with KO resigning. Unbelievable.

I’m with you on this one. If Orton can finish the season anywhere close to as well as he has started it, both he and Coach will have no desire to have anyone else under center for the Broncos next year. I agree that once he actually has the system down, and playing within it becomes second nature, we will be seeing even better results.

Great job as always, and thanks for taking the time.

Taylor Mays in '10

by donbok1 on Oct 29, 2009 6:03 PM MDT reply actions   0 recs

Always so good to hear from you, Don

When Trent Dilfer was summarily ‘fired’ after winning the SB for the Ravens, I thought that it was the single stupidest decision that I’d ever seen in sports. A player wins game after game, gets you the big ring and you drop him like an ugly prom date? Insanity.

What I’ve heard with Orton isn’t that bad, but it’s been fairly absurd. he’s undefeated. He’s brought the team back from behind. He’s putting up numbers that we haven’t seen since I became a fan and we’re talking 1st round QBs in the draft? Oy….

I am gratified to know that it’s not a majority or anything, but it’s till far from anything I can understand. Orton is here to stay. Health permitting, I look forward to watching him for a long time.

Moreno/Buckhalter in '09

by Emmett Smith on Oct 29, 2009 6:26 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

I guess that's why

McDaniels chose to go in the direction of RB and DE instead of mortgaging our Franchises’ future by trading up for “sanchize”.

by _Atwater27 on Oct 29, 2009 7:00 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Dilfer

Won a Super Bowl. But Baltimore also went something like 3 games without an offensive TD that year.

Orton is not Dilfer. And this offense can and will do its share to win games.

by JeffG on Oct 29, 2009 7:20 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Those three games without a TD

weren’t necessarily Dilfer’s fault. Practically all of that team’s talent was on the defensive side of the ball, and like Chicago they showed little aptitude for coaching the QB or the offense as a whole. Dilfer was roughly equivalent to Orton in Chicago with an even worse offensive supporting cast and an even better defense. But thanks to McDaniels Orton has definitely gone beyond Dilfer. I think Dilfer more than almost any other analyst appreciates (and perhaps envies a little) what McDaniels has meant to Orton and to Denver. He loves this team. He says that Denver “does things the right way” and that they’re tough, disciplined, and precise. Although Dilfer was (considered, at least) relatively undistinguished in his career he was the kind of quarterback who, in my opinion, would have blossomed under McDaniels.

"Surprised to see you, Captain, though pleased." — from Star Trek episode Space Seed.

by spock on Oct 30, 2009 11:28 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Good point, spock
he was the kind of quarterback who, in my opinion, would have blossomed under McDaniels.

This has been large in my mind for quite a while. Phil Simms, among others, has written about the often generally poor level of QB coaching in the NFL, describing how some teams have a QB coach who isn’t really a specialist in QB form and technique. Orton went through that in Chicago and he’s unlikely to go back to it anywhere else.

But Dilfer in many ways struck me as similar to Orton. He had more skills than he was given credit for and never had quite the right situation to maximize them. I hope that folks can remember all the insults and condescension that was aimed at Orton just a few months ago. With the right situation – players can proper coaching – Dilfer might have also surprised people.

Moreno/Buckhalter in '09

by Emmett Smith on Oct 30, 2009 12:10 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

He's in the background but..

For the next few years Orton and Branstater will be the new version of Elway and Kubiak. A solid and dependable pair of QBs that will allow the team to igonre tha position come draft day unless they need someone for reps or devlopment in the later rounds.

I dont think anyone will be clamoring for a QB next year at any pint in the draft. McDaniels isn’t only teaching Orton, just like he didnt ignore Cassel to teach Brady.

Good things are going on here, very good things.

"My team's on the floor"
Gene Hackman - Hoosiers

by AlanC11 on Oct 29, 2009 8:02 PM MDT up reply actions   1 recs

GREAT comparison

Awesome! Who wouldn’t love to see another Elway/Kubes dynamic! Remember the playoff victory against the Oilers(?) where Elway had a patented 4th quarter comeback, and Kubiak saved the bad snap on the crucial kick? Maybe that’s not totally in line with your point, but just one of my favorite games ever!

by ncm42 on Oct 29, 2009 8:05 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Many of those upset with trading Cutler

lamented that if only we had not foolishly sold one of the first round trade picks to Seattle, we could, with two first round picks to spend, have picked up a brand new Cutler in next year’s draft. Apparently the thinking is that such would have made the trade a no loss scenario. McDaniels, of course, wasn’t looking for "no loss" but rather strictly for a "win" exchange. But that aside, assuming a Cutler clone could have been thus obtained, we would be right back where we started except the new Cutler would lack the experience of the old, making the trade a setback no matter how superior, those advocating that strategy still (erroneously) think, Cutler is to Orton.

by warmick on Oct 30, 2009 10:50 AM MDT up reply actions   1 recs

Yes, well said

The folks that you are describing seem similar to those in Chi who believed with all their hearts that the QB was the sole reason for failure and that a turnover-prone, gun-armed young man would answer all questions. Isn’t it strange that in some minds there is only one kind of QB who is worth a darn?

Then reality comes up and suddenly ball safety, calm leadership, defense, O line and receiver play turn out to actually matter. Who knew?

Moreno/Buckhalter in '09

by Emmett Smith on Oct 30, 2009 12:15 PM MDT up reply actions   1 recs

My favorite part
Neither is going to let this one get away.

Pure poetry Bear!

Precision in thought, concision in style, decision in life.

"That's MR.Styg..."

by Jeremy Bolander on Oct 29, 2009 6:07 PM MDT reply actions   0 recs

Thanks, Jeremy

I think that they both are too smart to let this one slip.

Moreno/Buckhalter in '09

by Emmett Smith on Oct 29, 2009 6:27 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Hey Mr. Styg!

I’d be interested in seeing your evaluation of how KO’s mechanics and technical skills are going. I remember you did a very detailed piece on that during training camp.

From my aesthetic point of view, he’s throwing some really fine-looking balls: touch passes as well as bullets. I only wish he’d make a second read instead of throwing it in the dirt, when for example, Royal is covered on third-and-short.

But when you’re ready, man. No pressure. I know you must be a bit rushed, battening things down for the winter, etc.

"Remember, it's only a game."

by robswenson on Oct 29, 2009 6:57 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

I believe on the TD to Stokely

Stokely was the last read.

As Orton becomes more and more comfortable with the offense and his receivers, he’ll doubtless be able to go through his reads without as much anxiety as he must feel now.

by JeffG on Oct 29, 2009 7:22 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

That training camp piece on Orton

…was some of the best football writing I have ever read. There was one particular piece that likened Orton to Manning, with regards to footwork. I was blown away by that, and it really made me watch carefully when NFLN replayed old Bears’ games. Is there a link to that piece?

by ncm42 on Oct 29, 2009 8:01 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Hmmm...

Tou might be referring to the Tales of Mythology #3 Mobility and that Quarterback . Actually, that one turned out pretty well, in retrospect.

McDaniels has spent huge amounts of time working with each QB on footwork and mechanics, breaking down even the smallest movements. Orton’s habit of patting the football – called ‘burping the baby’ – will be a thing of the past. Simms’ inconsistency is going to be diminished or eliminated. What kind of a difference could that make?

Apparently, it made a fair amount of difference. Orton doesn’t burp the baby anymore and he’s lost a lot of his bad habits, although there’s always more to improve. Russ Tucker of SI.com did a nice job on this quote, too:
Ultimately, the most offensive-line friendly quarterbacks are the ones that get their team into the right play or protection at the line of scrimmage, set up in the pocket exactly where the linemen expect them to be, move subtly in the pocket to avoid pressure, get rid of the ball on time, and if all else fails, throws the ball away when nothing is there.

As good as I thought Orton would be here, I’m still impressed with the work he and McD have done.
As much as the conversation regarding which player is the better quarterback or who fits a certain system better, a better question might be “Which quarterbacks in the league get the teaching and coaching to learn the smaller points that will let them maximize the talents that they have (and do the hard work to internalize it)?”

That did turn out to be the question. The answer is obvious to all. Congratulations to both of them

Moreno/Buckhalter in '09

by Emmett Smith on Oct 29, 2009 9:56 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Awesome,

as always. Thanks!

by ncm42 on Oct 30, 2009 12:11 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm 100% behind you on this too:
The Broncos will give him the check and he’ll take a little less than he could get elsewhere, too

A humble team-first player who’s getting a great opportuinty to realize his potential. He recognizes McDaniels is part of his success, and that staying here will be in his best interest. I think he will also see that taking a bit less will help his long term success by maintaining the talent around him.

"My job description is to win football games. I'm a hard worker. I'm not flashy by any means, but my job is to play football and win and I plan to do that." Kyle Orton

by odarol on Oct 29, 2009 6:09 PM MDT reply actions   0 recs

I argued this very point this summer on the DP forums

Still, his agent will have some say in all this. I know that the player’s union frowns on hometown discounts, as well…

by JeffG on Oct 29, 2009 7:23 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

True

Still, Tom Brady took about a 6 million discount from NE over what he could have gotten, on the basis that he believed they would use that money to obtain higher quality players around him (which they did). About 1/2 dozen of the New England players did so in some degree. I wouldn’t be surprised to start seeing that on the Broncos as well. Orton wants to stay in Denver. And Denver clearly wants to keep Orton.

Moreno/Buckhalter in '09

by Emmett Smith on Oct 29, 2009 7:26 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

And...

I’m sure Orton would like to keep Clady, Doom, Marshall, etc…

by ncm42 on Oct 29, 2009 8:01 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

You bet!

Moreno/Buckhalter in '09

by Emmett Smith on Oct 29, 2009 9:56 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

During the Marshall Trouble

(i.e. the "I want a new contract" one), it was brought up that due to the expiration of the collective bargaining agreement, players, whose contracts are coming up for renewal (which includes Orton’s), would stand to lose substantial compensation. I loved Orton’s response when asked about it: "We make a lot anyway." I think Orton, like anyone, should get everything he deserves and I am sure he will but he sure displays one hell of a refreshing attitude.

by warmick on Oct 30, 2009 11:09 AM MDT up reply actions   1 recs

Absolutely!

Kyle’s attitude is almost better than his performance! Breath of fresh air….

by ncm42 on Oct 30, 2009 12:20 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Thanks for bringing that one up, warmick

I loved it at the time, and it had slipped my mind. That’s the kind of guy that you want on your team.

By the way, another guy like that is Andra Davis. Check this out from his Tales:

July 29, 2008
    In a surprising move, Andra Davis has accepted a substantial pay cut for this season and has learned that this will be his last in Cleveland.
    Davis told reporters that he harbors no ill will about the decision, having grown up in poverty and realizing his good fortune regardless of these decisions. Davis has agreed to drop his base salary from 3 million to 1.67 million for 2008, also dropping two season off the five year deal originally signed in 2005. Last season was a rare slip for Davis, working as a perennial pro Bowl candidate before an ankle injury limited his productivity in 2007. H admits the decision to stay is out of loyalty (that) he hopes will be repaid if he performs this season.
    I know personally it was my worst," said Davis, “But it’s over, I learned from it and it could’ve been a blessing in disguise. This year, I have a chance to go back and erase last season, so I’m happy and I’m up for the challenge.”
    “Me and my wife, money is the last thing on our minds,” he said of Monique, his childhood sweetheart from Live Oak, Fla. “We grew up dirt poor. I’m doing way better than 99 percent of the people.
   ”We’re not the type of people who just blow money. We’ve barely touched our signing bonus from two years ago. I’m not going to be one of those guys when they leave this league they’re broke."

Same kind of thing. High class guys. Nice comment, warmick!

Moreno/Buckhalter in '09

by Emmett Smith on Oct 30, 2009 12:29 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Great, Great Article

You’re a pro.

I say pay Orton the $$$…and let’s win some games.

Talk is for Losers and Fools.

by Victim of Love on Oct 29, 2009 6:46 PM MDT reply actions   0 recs

Excellent, as always.

I hope you get the glove on your throwing hand off soon, though you’re performing superbly.

One little quibble, though. In the big box on the Walsh system, I think you mean Jeff Kemp, not Jack.

"Remember, it's only a game."

by robswenson on Oct 29, 2009 6:59 PM MDT reply actions   0 recs

EXCELLENT POST

And cannot be rec’d enough! I have been a huge Orton fan since the Purdue days! I’ve said it before, and I’m going to say it again…the point you make with Dilfer, I apply to Plummer (on a non-SB winning scale, of course). The Plummer/Wilson teams had that special mojo. Jake just won games for us, whether he was setting team passing records or making frequent questionable plays. And most of the fans ran him off, when all he did was win.

Now we have someone with Plummer’s winning ways, only with more upside and a much cooler, more un-rattleable demeanor. Coach McD is teaching, KO is learning, and the future is bright in Broncosland!

by ncm42 on Oct 29, 2009 7:03 PM MDT reply actions   0 recs

Fantastic Post!!

I can’t wait until the next one. Thanks.

by PoorPoppy on Oct 29, 2009 7:09 PM MDT reply actions   0 recs

I love this story...

for 2+ reasons;
1. It’s on-point with what I’ve been trying to do to rationalize the righting of the ship that is my predilection towards drafting a QB in 2010.
2. Steve Young -….. seriously, I’m glad I’m not the only one thinking that it may not be too early to put him out to pasture, in a manner of speaking (typing?). I love the guy. I love his heart, his knowledge, his passion. But sometimes, particularly during post-game commentary, I wonder if he’s been truly affected by his career-ending concussions. He just doesn’t sound right, despite the fact that his rhetoric is completely valid. I hope I’m completely wrong and bearing witness to brilliance to the point of eccentricity.

At the beginning of the season, I was on the “Prepare for the worst, hope for the best” wagon. I was also at the Wagon Dealership with my eyes on the new “McCoy,” “Bradford,” and “Tebow” model wagons as well. Always the practical buyer, I decided to give the “trade-in” model a few more months to accurately suss out its value, not that I had any choice. I have to admit, I’m currently on the brink of reassessing the value of proven vs. potential because “proven” has begun to carry a bit more weight.

Should Orton continue, more or less, on the path he is on, I am completely behind giving him the money he needs to stay. I am a huge UT fan, and the idea of Colt McCoy in Orange and Blue is absolutely titillating. But at this point it would be difficult to give up proven success in Orton for the potential for greatness in future elite quarterbacks (not necessarily to be read, “McCoy, Bradford, Tebow, et al”. I’m not a gambling man. I’ll take this Kyle Orton.

Fantastic read. One of the best I’ve read here, and that’s saying quite a lot. Keep ’em coming!

by BroncofaninBK on Oct 29, 2009 7:12 PM MDT reply actions   1 recs

Nice

Seems like a long way away from all the “Orton Hears a Boo” stuff in the pre-season, doesn’t it? From my vantage point, Orton looks calmer and more aware of his options with almost every snap of the ball, and it seems obvious that he and his coach communicate very well, indeed. If this year’s good, think about what the next several could look like; and Orton needs to be in the middle of the action.

by 42n81 on Oct 29, 2009 7:44 PM MDT reply actions   0 recs

Terrific analysis, Emmitt!!

I wish I could give you a few more recs than just one.

As did you, I researched Kyle deeply after the trade. Having started with somewhat of a negative opinion of him (mostly from what I had heard on the grapevine, admittedly), I studied several games and 64 different clips of Orton. I also read everything I could get my hands on.

I came away impressed from that research. I tried to convey what I had found on a couple message boards, only to be roundly scoffed at and ridiculed by people who had not bothered to look into him as I had, nor were they interested in doing it. They were convinced—-from the grapevine, apparently—-that Orton was a noodle-armed, inaccurate, mentally deficient bust.

Well, I now have one thing with which I would like those people:

Enjoy, my friends. I’ll just have coffee, thanks.

BILLY THOMPSON GOT SHAFTED!!

by AZDynamics on Oct 29, 2009 9:56 PM MDT reply actions   3 recs

awesome!

Verbose in style, dispersion of thought, procrastination in life.

The guy formerly known as ZAPPA

by Tim Lynch on Oct 29, 2009 10:28 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

delicious......

If Taylor Swift were to try and tackle me, I'd let her.

by kentuckybronco on Oct 29, 2009 10:44 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

NomNomNom

Character may be manifested in the great moments but it is made in the small ones -- Philip Brooks

by KaptainKirk on Oct 29, 2009 10:54 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Sweet!!

Perfect for Raven’s week.

The run is over Charger fan. Not even a Super Bowl appearance to show for it, lol!

Jedi, please get Hillis involved in the O. He wears special thigh pads so his solid brass balls don't give him repeated thigh contusions.

by 53guys on Oct 30, 2009 6:47 AM MDT up reply actions   1 recs

LOL

Oh, that’s perfect, AZ. Like yourself, I caught a little grief here and there about my absurdly positivist and homeric (although not in the poetry sense, sadly) tendencies. This team has surprised even the most supportive among us. As I said – it’s really satisfying to see such a nice guy finishing first.

Moreno/Buckhalter in '09

by Emmett Smith on Oct 29, 2009 10:00 PM MDT reply actions   0 recs

Awesome post, Bear. Rec'd!

I liked your comment about Trent Dilfer being “fired” after leading the Ravens to the SB. I racked my brain and searched the tabloids trying to find out why – and for Elvis Grbac. EG lasted about half a season. Just didn’t add up. I realize, as Jeff G pointed out, there wasn’t a lot of O in some games. I guess I waited about 10 years to release that one…. Thanks for the opportunity.

Kyle Orton is a very good QB. Possibly better than that as he continues to learn and expand – and even more importantly – wants to continue to grow. This is a powerful combination. I followed him at Purdue a little; was happy when the Bears drafted him thinking that he was their answer at QB. I was pleased when he became a Bronco – tho I did have my heart in my throat for awhile there.

Thank you Bear for your energy and time. Happy to see that you are back at it. Your new handle threw me off but I recognized the verbage and style. Take care, my friend.

by Blackknigh on Oct 29, 2009 10:55 PM MDT reply actions   0 recs

Okay, so Emmett is Bear . . .

I knew I was talking to a friend. I just didn’t know which one . . .

BILLY THOMPSON GOT SHAFTED!!

by AZDynamics on Oct 29, 2009 10:57 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

lol

DocEmSmith = Bear. Yes, it gets confusing…

Moreno/Buckhalter in '09

by Emmett Smith on Oct 29, 2009 11:27 PM MDT reply actions   0 recs

Love the post Emmett

Even though you’re not a bear anymore, can we still give you salmon for a job well done?

The best thing I can say about Orton is that statistically he’s gotten better each week, but as I watch the games nothing seems to be different. He’s just so workmanlike and calm in his approach; his stark improvement through the course of the season barely even registers. It’s this quality of effortlessness. Brady has it in spades, but I’m starting to see moments like that in Orton as well. We have a QB who approaches each drive with the same calmness—be it an opening drive or a game winning 98-yarder.

Do you see and scenarios, Emmett, where we don’t extend him?

by bowma101 on Oct 30, 2009 2:43 AM MDT reply actions   0 recs

You know, I don't

I guess anything is possible, but Kyle has made it clear in several statements that he doesn’t want top tier money – he’s looking for a well-paying professional home with stability. The facts that the Broncos are winning, he’s getting everything that he wants out of the circumstance and that he can be a part of that kind of success long-term says to me that he’ll sign. Xanders hasn’t been shy about paying well – just not exorbitantly.

But every NFL team bears the cost of paying the QB – it’s just part of the system. If there was to be a situation in which they didn’t want to pay him ‘normal’ wages, there would have to be a reason why. There can be many – bad fit, personality issues, work ethic problems, etc. I don’t see any of those. The Broncos aren’t blind to this. They want a long-term, stable answer at QB and they want a backup who can play well enough to let them be successful if #1 goes down. Simms should be safe for next year, but may (almost certainly will) have to fight for a job the following season against Brandstater. From what we saw this year, it looks as if McDaniels likes a third QB, as many teams do. Brandstater will get his chance, but he may have to be impressive to have it in Denver in the near run.

That’s a different year’s challenge. The Shanahan question – what about that 7 million per year? – has nothing to do with the salary cap, We will have some space moving into next year (I’m no expert on how much). Xanders was being regarded very highly in that specific area when he came on from Atlanta and he was immediately important when McD came on. I’m sure that they are treating this as they do all the player’s contracts – they have a plan, a price range and specific ideas where they can and cannot be flexible. As I said – I’m not at all worried. Thanks for the question, though – good one.

Moreno/Buckhalter in '09

by Emmett Smith on Oct 30, 2009 3:36 AM MDT reply actions   0 recs

And folks have called me Bear for years

I’ll always take a salmon!

Moreno/Buckhalter in '09

by Emmett Smith on Oct 30, 2009 3:37 AM MDT reply actions   0 recs

Deepwater..awesome post and rec'd.

Those that cant coach, compete!
Failing to plan is planning to fail.
All I want is 53 Rod Smiths. Is that asking too much????
"Peyton Hillis didn’t rip the sleeves off his jersey, they flew off out of fear."
Calijoefornia.

by boydy2669 on Oct 30, 2009 5:39 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Welcome back brotha

No worries man…just enjoy the ride!

"Precipitation, which side are you on?
Are you on the rise? Are you falling down?
Let me know, Come on let's go, yeah
Got some if you need it!" -EV

by sadaraine on Oct 30, 2009 8:48 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Superb writing in every sense Bear

Are you also an author? If not, and it interests you, I highly suggest it. I would buy a book you wrote.

"Precipitation, which side are you on?
Are you on the rise? Are you falling down?
Let me know, Come on let's go, yeah
Got some if you need it!" -EV

by sadaraine on Oct 30, 2009 8:48 AM MDT reply actions   0 recs

I've read his more....whimsical...writing

Oh yes, he is definitely author caliber!!

Precision in thought, concision in style, decision in life.

"That's MR.Styg..."

by Jeremy Bolander on Oct 30, 2009 10:11 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Nice Job Bear...

This writeup is excellent in every way. Whatever we pay him will be worth it. I’m so confident we’ll sign him that I splurged and bought an authentic AFL yellow and brown Orton jersey earlier this week. Can’t wait for it to get here.

by ButteBronco on Oct 30, 2009 12:21 PM MDT reply actions   0 recs

Great observation

Orton wasn’t the consolation prize he got for losing Cutler. He was the guy he wanted instead of Cutler. Like many I thought McDaniels insisted on Orton because he needed to have a quarterback until he could make good on his loss. I now think Orton was the whole point of the deal. The rest was just gravy.

McDaniels, it now appears, was right but whether or not that was the case, the man displayed incredible backbone. Thanks Spock. You formulated it so well that it now seems that I just must have had those thoughts all along. :o)

by warmick on Oct 30, 2009 2:36 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Again raises the question

What would’ve happened if you switched Elway and Montana? As thrilled as I am that Elway got his due in the end, it’s hard to think about what could’ve been if he’d had that kind of coaching early in his career.

Phyllis? Phyllis? Are you there? I can't hear you anymore.

by pubkeeper on Oct 30, 2009 2:37 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

If Elway and Montana had been switched

Elway might have been somewhat more successful—I’m not sure how well his skill set would have meshed with Walsh’s system— but I think Montana would have been way less successful. Elway had assets that could translate to any system, but Montana needed a Walsh for his own special kind of genius to come to bear. I think Walsh would mainly have accelerated Elway’s development, and that because Elway was focussed on winning above all else, which is why he was so good at it.

"Surprised to see you, Captain, though pleased." — from Star Trek episode Space Seed.

by spock on Oct 30, 2009 4:34 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

I believe that to be an undeniable truth

Character may be manifested in the great moments but it is made in the small ones -- Philip Brooks

by KaptainKirk on Oct 30, 2009 9:16 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

I had to rec the Vulcan's comment

so well done…I think that McD would have done very well with Cutler. I’m not as convinced that Cutler would have done well with McD, but that’s unimportant. Orton, as Mr. Tiki says, is Win.

Elway and Walsh? I never thought of that, but it’s a moderately terrifying thought. Many of John’s early issues would have been resolved much sooner if they could have gotten along. It’s not possible to go back and figure out how certain personality types would have meshed, but as far as an early resolution of mechanical issues, an increased understanding of the game and a game-plan that would have made use of all of his skills, Elway might have been even better. Like I say – that’s a pretty terrifying thought.

There are a lot of those kinds of stories, though. There are a lot of QBs in our league who would benefit greatly from a better level of instruction. When I listen to some of the coaches, they seem to be saying, “This QB? His problems are because of him – but what he does right is because of me…I just want a QB who is exactly what I dream of and all will be well.” Player development in the NFL can be surprisingly hit and miss.

This same pattern that exists with McD and Kyle is there on our defense – players who were second rate, washed up or never-were players are looking like monsters. I think that I’d argue that Nolan, with his excellent crew of coaches such as Nunnely and players with leadership like Dawkins and Davis (and Haggan and Peterson and…) is doing the same that mcD is doing – teaching constantly, teaching well and preparing players at the highest level. That will make us tough to beat, week in and week out.

Moreno/Buckhalter in '09

by Emmett Smith on Oct 30, 2009 3:39 PM MDT reply actions   3 recs

Unlocking potential and making players believe in themselves is what great coaches do.

Being part of the team elevates your own skill set by emphasizing your strengths and dimishing your weaknesses. This coaching staff totally teaches this way.

Imagination is more important than knowledge. A. Einstein

by Ponderosa on Oct 31, 2009 10:24 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Awesome discussion guys

Character may be manifested in the great moments but it is made in the small ones -- Philip Brooks

by KaptainKirk on Oct 30, 2009 9:17 PM MDT reply actions   0 recs


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