Notes on Broncos/Cowboys and 4-0
via a.espncdn.com
Winning ugly.
Sometimes, that's all that it comes down to. Kyle Orton had an incredible day - unfortunately, it was on this past Friday and it was practice. Today, he missed open receivers, 7 off them in the first half, and with a few better throws, the game never should have come down to the 4th quarter. It did, though, and Orton missed on only two passes in the 4th quarter and threw 2 TDs. Each week, it seems that it's the 3rd and 4th quarters when the Broncos are really tough to stop and today was one more in that pattern. Following their usual pattern, there came the adjustments as the game went on that Josh McDaniels has been know for since his first coaching job. Mike Nolan did everything he had to do on defense, too. In the end, it was the kind of all-team effort that is beginning to mark the kind of Broncos squad that has well earned its 4-0 record.
The last few drives were really the game in short. It started by stopping the Cowboys, something the Broncos did effectively from the late first quarter onward. When the Broncos took over with 9:35 to go in the 4th quarter, they began to slash at the Dallas defense. Orton, under pressure, somehow completed a pass to a diving Eddie Royal before being illegally hammered by Theo Ratliff. Eddie only had two receptions for 16 yards, but sometime it's when you do it, not how many times. Next, Moreno knifed up the middle for 14. And then, Orton and Brandon Marshall hooked up for a long yards after catch scoring pass with Marshall doing his best angles and ambles running, ala Correll Buckhalter. Marshall was greeted on the sidelines by Josh McDaniels himself (who may need a soapbox to hug the tall receiver), which Kyle Orton in his usual ebullient manner went up and down the sideline, greeting, congratulating and hugging or high-fiving every player involved in the play, or those who just wanted in on the fun. Prater kicked the ensuing kickoff into the stands, splitting the uprights for emphasis.
Dallas got the ball back with enough time to make the game concerning. They knocked on the door, too, with a long pass and run of their own, to Sam Hurd for 53 yards to the Denver 20. Hurd got another reception to the The 'Boys would press deep, to the 2 yard line where Patrick Clayton was nicely tackled by Jack Williams, who played well in today's contest. And then? This far: no further. there was a single incompletion. Then it was that Dallas would make the mistake of the game. They decided, as they had all game, to go after Champ Bailey. After all, he's older, and over the hill. Right? Certainly seemed to be on that one INT at the 6, didn't he?
Didn't he?
Champ gave up the inside route to Hurd, who thought that he was in the right spot at the right time. He just hadn't counted on Champ's hand deflecting the ball. Undeterred, the Cowboys called the same play again. Again, Hurd took the inside route. Again, Champ reached in almost casually and tapped the ball away to give him 4 passes defensed on the day. Jack Williams added a little injury to insult by hammering Hurd's middle as the play ended. The ball turned over to the Broncos on downs, the knee was taken and the victory went into the record books. 17-10, Broncos by a touchdown. Game, set and match for the 1st quarter of the 2009 NFL season. You can only play the ones that they give you. The Broncos took them all.
A couple of comparisons - Tony Romo was 25 of 42 for Zero TDs and one INT (Champ Bailey, again) and a 67.1 QB rating. Kyle Orton was 20 of 29, 243 yards, 7.6 ypa, no INTs again and 2 TDs. It's been 157 passes since he threw an INT and his QB rating was 117.5 for the game. Not bad, for a guy who had accuracy issues in the 1st half. In fact, there was a question at one point how we would do if we were a couple of scores down. The answer was simple - just fine. The 4th quarter is the Broncos quarter so far this year.
A few earlier quotes, a few predictions and their outcomes. This one is worth celebrating. Aren't they all?
From Mike Lombardi
DeMarcus Ware has zero sacks in his last four games, his longest streak without a sack since his 2005 rookie season. Is this because he's not happy with the progress on a new deal?
The Broncos' wideouts are a bad matchup for the Cowboys' corners. If the Broncos get protection, they'll throw the ball effectively.
The Cowboys will have to tackle very well in their secondary, as the Broncos have very effective receivers with the ball in their hands. Brandon Marshall and Eddie Royal are hard to get to the ground.
Expect Denver to change and shift formations and personnel groups as the Cowboys struggle to get lined up at times on defense. The Broncos' offense is very effective creating confusion.
Denver QB Kyle Orton will need to play well in the passing game for the Broncos to win the game. He can't allow the Cowboys to play on a short field because of an interception.
Alert: Expect the Broncos to go after the Cowboys safeties down the field. Denver is one of the best new game-plan teams. Each week, they attack the weakness of their opponents very well.
DeMarcus Ware had exactly zero sacks on the day. The Broncos did give up 3, an unusually generous total for this line, but none came to Ware. Orton didn't give up an INT and had a Qb rating of 117.5. I think that's Ok - we'll take it. Each team lost one fumble and the Broncos ended the contest in the black in the turnover margin yet again.
From the Denver Post:
When Romo is chased from the pocket (and even when he's still in it, really), he is looking for tight end Jason Witten, who has 19 catches this season, more than double that of any other Dallas player.
Tight ends have not been particularly effective against the Broncos' defense in the first three games (five total catches for 49 yards), but Witten is one of the NFL's best receiving tight ends.
The Broncos experimented with two nickel packages in training camp, one with bigger players that could come in handy against a player such as Witten. In that "big nickel," safety Josh Barrett might be used to shadow Witten.
Other options could be linebacker Wesley Woodyard, who plays in the standard nickel package, or even safety Brian Dawkins.
"The challenge is to understand that they're going to look for him, and if you're responsible for him, you can't let him have 2 yards of space," McDaniels said. "If you're responsible for him on a play, you better get on him, and you better get on him tight because he doesn't need much space, and neither does Romo."
Feedback -- The Broncos did well in this regard. Witten was held to a mere 31 yards and 4 receptions. Wes Woodyard was sorely tested at times and will be better for the experience: he had two solo tackles and an assist by the end. The big nickel did what it had to do. More will come when I have more time for the film. In general, the Broncos challenged Romo well, scoring 5 sacks and many hurries and knockdowns.
Same source article:
Clady and Ware battled through four joint training camp practices at Dove Valley in August 2008 during Clady's rookie year. In the preseason game between the two teams, Ware did not record a sack.
Clady and Ware went on to stellar 2008 seasons, with Ware recording 20 sacks and Clady giving up only a half sack. This season, Clady has yet to allow a sack, and Ware does not have a sack.
"I thought for a rookie who came in straight out of college who came in starting from Day One, I thought he did a tremendous job against DeMarcus Ware," Broncos outside linebacker Elvis Dumervil said. "I think he'll do really well against him now that he has a season under his belt."
He did. Clady help his own and Ware didn't get a sack, finishing the game with 2 tackles solo and 2 assists although he did have a forced fumble. Congratulations to Ryan Clady for setting a new record with his firs 20 games, starting as a rookie, without a single sack. What a player he is!
Robert Ayers saw more time and did well, stopping Choice for a 3 yard loss in the first quarter, staying at home and holding his gap on passing plays in which he mimicked an ILB and generally playing well overall. I'll break down the film in the next couple of days, but I saw him playing well several times. Once again, though, DJ Williams leads all Broncos with 9 solo tackles, 1 sack, 2 passes defensed (the one against Roy Williams was incredible) and a TFL as well as a non-sack hit on the QB. There were no shortage of great names on the defense today - Andra Davis had another good game, Brian Dawkins continues to intimidate, DJ looked great, Jack Williams deserved a lot of credit fo rthe job that he came in and did and the lis gets long indeed. Doom added another two sacks to bring his total to 8 for the year.
The Broncos had a completely unacceptable 10 penalties for 81 yards, while Dallas chimed in for 7 and 70 yards. It was, at times, a frustratingly sloppy game. Denver also only made 2 of 10 third down opportunities. There are some good sides, though. The Broncos had 15 first downs, 8 by passing and 7 by rushing, a balanced attack. The defense continues to come up big when they are needed. They shut down most of the Dallas rushing attack and let them have only 3.0 yards per carry and 75 yards rushing, total.
Overall - the Broncos have done to Dallas what they did to other teams. They shut them down overall, held them to no points in the final three quarters and generally made them miserable. I'll worry later about the offense's lack of cohesion - Orton had a bad half, and when we clicked, we paid for too many penalties. Still - this is a tough team that no one will take lightly for the rest of the season.
Congratulations, Bronco Country - you're 4-0!
This is a Fan-Created Comment on MileHighReport.com. The opinion here is not necessarily shared by the editorial staff of MHR
22 recs |
241 comments
Comments
Sticking the neck out
The gut says the Broncos offense will win one of the next two games not the defense. There is just this nagging sense that the offense is not hitting on all cylinders yet but on the verge of getting the timing adjusted to run at maximum rpm. Where I’m sticking my neck out is in saying the offense will do it by going over the top with a bomb or two.
If the Broncos pull out the next two going in to the break watch out because we will be on the fast track to the playoffs. Who’d a thunk it at the beginning of the year.
by BroncoCUbuffs on Oct 4, 2009 8:27 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
I hope you're right!
But I don’t see Orton connecting with anything deep down field. He was way off on almost all of his deep balls yesterday and we all know he could have easily had 2 INTs.
I’m putting my money on Moreno, I think he is starting to get the hang of pro ball a little and will make some fools miss in the open field. And I think mcdaniels and his schemes are what will get us victories. McD is a genius in my opinion.
No only are you putting your neck out there, but you are sharpening the executioners axe.
by Lean n' Mean on Oct 5, 2009 8:43 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hmm
I don’t agree that Orton was ‘way off’ on his deep throw attempts. The Dallas defender threw out a hand at the perfect time when there was an attempt downfield to Marshall in one instance. I think Orton is most effective with his drop off passes and let the receivers make some plays. Some might call it conservative play but it’s definitely been smart so far.
I like the 2-headed RB system but with Buchalter getting injured it could present a problem for Moreno. He needs someone else to step up beside him in Buckhalter’s place so the opposing defense is thrown off and will not be able to adjust with 2 different style RBs.
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by brohamm1978 on Oct 5, 2009 10:15 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
What about...
In the first quarter when he had Gaffney with a step on his man ready to go for 6 and he simply overthrew him? There were a couple like that. A TD at that point in the game would’ve changed the whole complexion of the contest.
Richard Seymour is a girl.
by pubkeeper on Oct 5, 2009 10:39 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
True...
I agree…I gotta hope he’s still adjusting…and the thing is I don’t think anyone expects him to be anything more than a good ‘manager’ as they like to use. Averaging 225yds/game is not too bad…I can live with that for now
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by brohamm1978 on Oct 5, 2009 11:07 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Overthrown and six feet wide
Not exactly missing by inches.
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by improv88 on Oct 5, 2009 1:30 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
That one hurt
However, he is still wearing that pesky glove. He was so far off, all I can hope is that the glove truly makes that big of a difference, because he missed Gafney horribly.
I kept remembering Elway hitting Smith down the middle in the SB against Atlanta. That baby was a touchdown if it was thrown well.
by Mhantra on Oct 5, 2009 2:54 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
I dont agree either...if you call a foot or too WAY off you are a harsh judge!
Those that cant coach, compete!
Failing to plan is planning to fail.
All I want is 53 Rod Smiths. Is that asking too much????
"Peyton Hillis didn’t rip the sleeves off his jersey, they flew off out of fear."
Calijoefornia.
by boydy2669 on Oct 5, 2009 11:42 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
You should agree if you watch the tape
The deep ball to Marshall in the first half was a great defensive play, but every other deep ball was completely uncatchable. Even the last throw that Marshall took for a TD was severely underthrown. Marshall had to stop and jump over the defender who actually had better position on the ball.
You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say will be misquoted and then used against you.
by improv88 on Oct 5, 2009 1:30 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Remember the debate about who made who better? Cutler made the WR look better or the WR made Cutler look better?
You can’t tell me that on the 51 yard reception to Marshall that Cutler could have made Marshall look better. Even with a perfectly thrown ball, there was safety help over the top with the guys covering DG. Marshall still would have had to break those tackles.
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by kentuckybronco on Oct 5, 2009 1:35 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Orton's pass to Marshall...
….was perfectly thrown.
A man does what he has to do, and sometimes it’s not what I believe he should do. There’s no reason to use up energy hating him for it. Shoot him if you have to, but don’t hate him.
Louis L’Amour
by bradley on Oct 5, 2009 2:39 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
agreed completely
If that pass leads Marshall up the sideline the safety may have made it over to break up the pass. Or Orton could have over thrown the ball. Also, Marshall had 5 inches on the DB so it is a smart play to put the ball high and short allowing the receiver to use the height advantage to complete the pass. How many times do you see a long ball under-thrown and the taller receiver come back and make the adjustment for the completion (most of the time).
by adamriggs on Oct 5, 2009 9:01 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
From my perspective
I thought Hochstein had a good game at guard. Didn’t get to see the whole game. I’d like to know who gave up the sacks. I know one was a delayed blitz that was caused when Orton stepped up in the pocket.
by papasteven on Oct 4, 2009 8:29 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
I saw Russ on his backside twice from bull rushes. I beg to disagree about him playing a good game. I think he missed on some pull blocks too. I’d say it was an average game from him at best.
by dr.mort on Oct 5, 2009 1:08 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
forgot Bear
good post and I’ll give it a rec.
by papasteven on Oct 4, 2009 8:30 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
We have to cut out the penalties, Wiegmann especially seems to just keep getting caught. It was nice to see Holliday getting in on the action a couple of times as well. Orton didn’t look very comfortable today to me and his throws were all over the place. Hillis is making me sad =)
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by Todd Jewell on Oct 4, 2009 9:19 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
The penalties on Wiegmann
were both pretty weak calls. The holding that was called occurred after the defensive player was well out of the play, and looked to me like both players were pretty much just standing there watching the run happen. I consider it part of playing “America’s Team”.
by gOOn on Oct 5, 2009 9:05 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm buying into McD but Orton has me confused...
I think McD and Nolan are doing an absolutely outstanding job. I love being wrong about McD. As for Orton, I was again very worried about his accuracy in the first 2+ quarters. He again clicked in the 4th. I think I know how the Bears fans felt the last couple of years. He wins…but it seems like he may just not be that good. It’s a weird and confusing feeling….but hey, he wins. The question with Orton for me is: Is the grass greener on the other side of the fence (i.e., different QB)? I have no clue, but hey, he wins.
by bonaire on Oct 4, 2009 9:54 PM MDT reply actions 1 recs
It may not be a popular notion on this board...
But I completely agree with you. I think we are winning in spite of him, not because of his “game-manager” skill. I see a lot of amazing things out on the field, and McDaniel’s has created a true team environment. I just think we are completely lacking at the QB position.
Both of his TD passes were lucky. I know that’ll get discounted… “what happens on the field is what matters” but still— he did not look good.
by legendarywalton on Oct 4, 2009 10:01 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Last time we were winning "despite the QB"
we benched Plummer, started Cutler and missed the playoffs.
by Dwhite on Oct 4, 2009 10:15 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
true, but
I never thought Plummer was capable of doing anything in playoffs. On the field, we were perennially destroyed in the first round by Indy and got only playoff win thanks to questionable “1-yard line” spotting of out-of-bounds ball against the Pats. Not to reopen old wounds, but that was a game not won by our QB – he basically just did enough not to lose it.
by si_ice on Oct 5, 2009 12:13 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Remind me
How many playoff games did the Broncos win with Cutler as QB?
by DCbroncfan on Oct 5, 2009 2:41 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wow it always bothers me that when no explanation can be provided they always claim
LUCK !!!
Go look at his numbers in correlation with other Qb’s and then tell me how we are winning IN SPITE OF ORTON. You dont think our turnover margins have played a huge part of us winning ?
Go read Marshalls comments and he clearly says that the Orton throw was planned when they left the huddle
It has now come to the point that fans are now saying we are winning in spite of a quarterback wit ha 97 quarterback rating ?who is top ten in td passes ? who is top ten in yards per attempt ? top 12 in passing yards ? and has ZERO turnovers .
This guy is so bad we are winning IN SPITE OF HIM . Wow ……..
by Hoopforia on Oct 4, 2009 10:21 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Look at all of the bail-out catches and dropped INTs
the tide will turn, i’m sure of it. But our defense and running game are so impressive, I think we’ll continue chuggin along. Go broncs!
by legendarywalton on Oct 4, 2009 11:19 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
when your biased of course thats how it looks
How many nfl; games have you seen ? Because there are potential INTS in every nfl game
There is ALWAYS someone nearly picking off Brady or manning . But any argument in football that starts with ALMOST is a fail from the beginning .
I could say we ALMOST had a td on that play to Gaffney but ALMOST does not count .
What bail out catch are you referring to ?
The great throw moving to his left that Orton hit Royal with where he was crushed by Ratliff ? That was to keep the drive alive and we got the FG.
On the Marshall catch Newman is 5’11 and Marshall is 6’4 that ball was right where it was supposed to be .I just dont get what people are talking about .
Orton was 9-15 in the first half and 11-14 in the second half
Last week everyone said Orton was too cautious and sooner or later he was gonna have to make a play .
Well guess what he took chances and did make plays and now the argument is about what ALMOST happened . Well guess what ? when you start taking a bunch of chances there always risks involved period.
Now Orton is GARBAGE !! and yet people want to be taken seriously .
What should baffle you is if he is garbage yet his numbers are comparable to the rest of the league his numbers are nothing but right in the mix of the top ten Qb’s .
If hes garbage than are they or could it be that your analysis is just off base and out of touch with the rest of the nfl.
by Hoopforia on Oct 5, 2009 8:53 AM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
In complete agreement
“bailout catches and dropped interceptions”… Walton obviously has his mind made up about KO. He fails to mention the drops, penalties, sacks, horrific starting field position, injury. He also dismisses stats when they counter his opinion. I’m willing to be he’s a disgruntled Jay Cutler/Shannahan supporter. He’ll be badmouthing KO all the way to the playoffs.
by rocko1 on Oct 5, 2009 9:47 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Right
If you took away every play a reciever makes for a QB, or if you counted every dropped interception, I’ll bet KO’s numbers would still stack up very well against other starting QBs.
by ButteBronco on Oct 5, 2009 10:27 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, you keep hoping for that so that you are proved correct....i am dumb founded with the attitude!
Those that cant coach, compete!
Failing to plan is planning to fail.
All I want is 53 Rod Smiths. Is that asking too much????
"Peyton Hillis didn’t rip the sleeves off his jersey, they flew off out of fear."
Calijoefornia.
by boydy2669 on Oct 5, 2009 11:51 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Some are more interested in saying "See, toleya so!"
Then they are in seeing the team win, it seems. I’m guessing that’s an ego thing.
by AllBroncsallday on Oct 5, 2009 3:58 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
TOLD YA SO!
just kidding mate.
TAKE IT!!!
by Joe Medina on Oct 5, 2009 11:06 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hear ya, Hoop
Kyle is our QB, period. Get behind him, or go cheer for Chicago. We are musch better off with his style of play…no way Cutler succeeds in this Offensive scheme.
CELEBRATE THE WIN, PEOPLE…don’t continue to pick our victories apart.
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by Bronco_Fan_Tom on Oct 5, 2009 11:11 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Who's picking the victory apart?
The defense is phenomenal! I’ve never seen a Denver D that always has someone in position ready to make the tackle. No receivers running wide open, RB having to work for every yard (after the first quarter), teeth-rattling hits left and right. I love it.
But Orton is playing lucky, and his final stats are not good indicators of what he is doing on the field. That not one of his three passes that hit a defender in both hands was picked off is just crazy. That his TD pass to Marshall was severely underthrown, Marshall had to stop and jump over the defender – that was NOT planned. The pass may have been, the location? Not a chance. Orton’s play will catch up to him.
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by improv88 on Oct 5, 2009 1:37 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh Please Child!
Give it up. Orton did not underthrow Marshall. You even note Marshall had to jump for it on the sideline. Orton can improve, yes. But so can the entire team.
by Endzone on Oct 5, 2009 1:44 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Clean your glasses
Marshall had to come to a complete stop, even though he had three steps on the defender and nothing but green in front of him. That is the definition of an underthrow.
You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say will be misquoted and then used against you.
by improv88 on Oct 5, 2009 1:58 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
It was a hitch - they said so in the comments after the game (Orton/McDaniels)
You know, where you stop and turn around? It was in the pattern. Of course Marshall made a great catch. That’s his job. Orton’s is to put it where it’s hard for the defender to get and Marshall can still make the catch, which is what happened.
Hillis/Moreno in '09
by Emmett Smith on Oct 5, 2009 2:11 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not to argue with post-game comments
But have you ever heard of 25 yard hitch route? Neither have I. 25 yard comeback, sure. That is not what happened. Watch the video, Marshall was not running a hitch – he had to come to a stop to wait for the ball. And do my a favor and don’t try and educate me on route names, I did play the game.
You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say will be misquoted and then used against you.
by improv88 on Oct 5, 2009 2:14 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sure, me too.
Argue with Orton and McD, OK? I’m just reporting. Geez, missed your weekly argument? Why are you so angry?
Hillis/Moreno in '09
by Emmett Smith on Oct 5, 2009 2:16 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Because
He’s being proved wrong, and his ego is having a very hard time with it. Thus, he lashes out even more strongly when he’s wrong, yet again.
by AllBroncsallday on Oct 5, 2009 4:01 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
He still got his head
up cutlers a**
by papasteven on Oct 5, 2009 8:19 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ah, looks like preschool just got out
You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say will be misquoted and then used against you.
by improv88 on Oct 5, 2009 9:09 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Dude go watch
it was a designed route for him to stop and come back.
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by sadaraine on Oct 5, 2009 2:30 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
and the DB played it great (at least, in body positioning)
by Mhantra on Oct 5, 2009 2:58 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
eh...
almost great. Marshall still made the catch.
TAKE IT!!!
by Joe Medina on Oct 5, 2009 11:07 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
"teeth rattling"???????
I politely disagree. DJs hit on Williams was bone crushing at least. He burst some organs, I’m pretty sure of it. DJ was trying to GO THROUGH Williams stomach. It was the sickest hit I have ever seen. I want to get it on a continuous loop. It inspires me. Hits like that can keep orthopedic surgeons in business for a long time……..
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by kentuckybronco on Oct 5, 2009 1:51 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's obvious that this is a debate that you can't win on either side
Orton competed 22 or 21 passes for over 250 yards and 2 TDs with no INTs. Two were called back for issues unrelated to the throw or catch. Still, dark mutterings arise regarding what he’s doing wrong. The fact that this flies in the face of history, facts and stats seems unimportant for some reason and I won’t address this any more. It’s kind of absurdism.
This ridiculous focus on exactly where a nice pass for a TD was positioned is the clincher. This is about disliking Orton and insisting that he’ll fail. For those of an aviation bent, an old laugh explains it — “I told it to Wilbur and I told it to Orville – It will never fly. I stand by that, too!”
Hillis/Moreno in '09
by Emmett Smith on Oct 5, 2009 2:01 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Doesn't anyone consider
That Dallas played really really good D yesterday and threw our O out of sync just like we messed up theirs? Let’s give them some credit please, they really did play a great game.
If people aren't supposed to eat animals, why are they made out of meat??
by BigDave on Oct 5, 2009 11:37 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
I am with ya...and please not trying to start anything....
But guys like walton, bonaire etc WONT be satisfied EVER with Orton even if he throws for 300 yards every week. You are awestruck by QB’s with big arms and glitz, and I have even seen comments like “Orton is not fun to watch.”. I just dont get what you guys need.
I AM ABSOLUTELY CONFUSED ON HOW YOU DONT LIKE A QB WITH A 17-2 RECORD AT HOME AND 25-12 RECORD. WHAT AM I MISSING?
And please, dont start with he has defenses, its a team game blah, blah, blah….its is not a COINCIDENCE that Orton wins. He has all the intangibles that clearly you guys dont look at…..but he has a team in Denver that believes in him, that follows him and trusts him, along with the coaches.
Those guys know a shitload more than you and I do.
just get over it, be stoked, and stop looking at things to gripe at.
Those that cant coach, compete!
Failing to plan is planning to fail.
All I want is 53 Rod Smiths. Is that asking too much????
"Peyton Hillis didn’t rip the sleeves off his jersey, they flew off out of fear."
Calijoefornia.
by boydy2669 on Oct 5, 2009 11:50 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
To be fair
You can’t look at their comments and take it as “griping”. Apart from “garbage” comment, everything else has been an honest confusion as to what to make of it. Here’s bonaire’s exact quote, “It’s a weird and confusing feeling….but hey, he wins.” It looks to me as if someone is trying to take a thoughtful approach to figuring out what he’s seeing instead of just “stop thinking and enjoy the ride”. If that’s how you approach the game, fine, but if someone doesn’t approach it your way, it seems silly and more than a little juvenile to tell him to sit down and shut up. Just don’t read his comments.
Richard Seymour is a girl.
by pubkeeper on Oct 5, 2009 12:39 PM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
+1
"A man can fail, but he is not a failure until he blames someone else." J. Paul Getty
by SteveAssassin on Oct 5, 2009 12:48 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
agreed
I consider myself an Orton supporter, a McD supporter, and a huge fan of the team. That doesn’t mean that I was blind to KO’s difficulties with getting completions over the middle of the field, particularly early in the game. It appeared that after throwing a few sideline routes, mostly short, he developed a rhythm and improved overall.
by CoastalBronco on Oct 5, 2009 12:50 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes, it was a bad 1st quarter
There is also a couple of other issues – penalties being the first. Harris’ two false start penalties penalties, the phantom call on Scheffler (what was that?), and the back to back completions on Denver’s final drive in the 2nd quarter called back on penalties during the drive. Orton started out in the hole too often, which wasn’t his fault.
The second is this – he had a splint on the finger, as well as the glove, for the first games. He finally admitted, after weeks of denying it, that the ball is sticking to the glove. Now he also has to get used to the glove sans splint. We can’t know if that mattered, but it’s not reasonable to ignore it completely.
One way or the other, once he had a rhythm, he was accurate to above a 70% completion rate (having been lower at first). I think that what I’m in disagreement with is the fact that many folks are criticizing the way it ‘looks’, fixating on the 1st quarter or half and failing to look at the performance in its entirety. It was a lot more than stats that made it a good performance – it was doing what needed to be done when we had the chance and when he was under pressure.
Hillis/Moreno in '09
by Emmett Smith on Oct 5, 2009 1:13 PM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
I can't understand...
….how people can complain about Orton. Really incredible, when you think about it.
A man does what he has to do, and sometimes it’s not what I believe he should do. There’s no reason to use up energy hating him for it. Shoot him if you have to, but don’t hate him.
Louis L’Amour
by bradley on Oct 5, 2009 1:14 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Better Than Expected
I had high hopes for Orton before the preseason based on his stats. The preseason had me questioning my faith. But so far in the regular season he has been far above my expectations. It is early in the season and the O can improve a lot.
by Endzone on Oct 5, 2009 1:46 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bear
Just a note, I appreciate your responses to these questions. Seriously, it helps me out a lot. I had no idea about his completion percentage. It’s not that I want to toss Orton, and I don’t think most discussing this do. It’s not that I’m not completely ecstatic about the season and yesterday’s win. My voice is still raspy. I’m just trying to sort out some things and thoughtful, patient responses like yours help to inform me and put some things to rest.
Like I said, I appreciate it, doc.
Richard Seymour is a girl.
by pubkeeper on Oct 5, 2009 1:44 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think its a bit to easy to creat one super group...
of Orton non believers. Your right there are some that will never be satisfied, there are those that will only be satisfied with an amazing season and probably 20 other groups. I would be satisfied if Orton threw for 300+ yards with balance in the 1st and 2nd half AND we won the game I’m guessing that his QB rating and completion percentages are being dragged down by his first halves. Imagine what they would be if he played the first half as good as he has played the second half. I think there is room for improvement and I am just pointing that out. I don’t know why some consider that so offensive. And as others have come to my defense and said, I’m not a hater…..still just confused. But winning is the most important thing and we are undefeated.
by bonaire on Oct 5, 2009 1:23 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree with both of you
Pleases recognize two things. First, I’m not angry with anyone. Second, I’m not trying to push different folks into any group. Folks are individuals.
The individual people that have perplexed me – not irritated or insulted or anything of the sort – are those who don’t seem to realize that with 22 receptions on 31 passes (two called back for penalties on issues unrelated to the throw or catch), a nice completion rate and some good scrambling and play, we’re in terrible danger by having Orton continuing to win for us. I just don’t get it. Probably won’t, either.
Orton had some weaknesses in his game and I wouldn’t argue that for a moment. He can get better and he should get better. Probably will, after a few weeks w/o the glove. Certainly will, as the team continues to gel (it is – just look at the stat lines). We agree on all of that – in fact, there’s not much we disagree on, if anything. A lot of folks took off on the 1st quarter performance instead of the full-game performance, and that can be altered by changing viewpoint (X Q is important vs X game is important). but both of you are just exploring viewpoints. What could possibly be wrong with that?
If there are issues, they aren’t with you, me or the game. I just wanted to get that kind of clear – I don’t find anything offensive. OK, I find some of the comments about how we’re in terrible danger with Orton as QB silly (none of which were either of yours, near as I can tell), but NOT offensive. Ok, the remark that ‘JaMarcus Russell would win’ comment astounded me, but that’s not offending me either (grin).
Hillis/Moreno in '09
by Emmett Smith on Oct 5, 2009 2:09 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
No worries
My response way to Boydy saying people like Bonaire will never be satisfied. I can be satisfied with Orton…at least I hope I can, but only time will tell :)
by bonaire on Oct 5, 2009 2:38 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thanks Bonaire...sorry to criticize...
Just feels to me that there are guys on MHR that will NEVER be satisfied with Orton. I know you are not one of them, so sorry to lob you in that group. Accept my apologies!
Those that cant coach, compete!
Failing to plan is planning to fail.
All I want is 53 Rod Smiths. Is that asking too much????
"Peyton Hillis didn’t rip the sleeves off his jersey, they flew off out of fear."
Calijoefornia.
by boydy2669 on Oct 6, 2009 8:48 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
walton
during the game, it does seem like this, but then I look at the numbers and he just keeps plugging away and with no INTs.
Also, if you compare Orton’s 1st and 2nd quarters with his 4th quarters, it is very very different story on the stats.
Lastly, it took me 4 weeks, but I am realizing how much fantasy football makes us think someone is “better,” when it’s simply not true.
Smokey, my friend, you are entering a world of pain.
by TJ Johnson on Oct 4, 2009 10:27 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
To all above...
Look, you know how much I’ve changed in this debate. But I’m sorry, we did not win that game because of Orton. He’s garbage. He can’t hit wide open receivers. One touchdown was a complete fluke (to moreno), another was because of one incredible effort by a player.
He presses when we get down and he will not continue to pull this off, I guarantee it. I think I’ve expressed my opinion in enough credible ways that you can’t just call me a hater. I don’t like what I see from him. That’s where I stand and always will. It baffles me that he is getting a pass. He’s not good.
by legendarywalton on Oct 4, 2009 11:17 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
bill
no worries, man. you can express that opinion. I respect it. I am glad you saw the 4th Qtr stuff though.
Smokey, my friend, you are entering a world of pain.
by TJ Johnson on Oct 4, 2009 11:27 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
mid game
i told my dad “orton is terrible today. TERRIBLE.”
that was the eye test. he seemed off rhythm, behind, whatever. very shaky.
maybe some of that has to do with all of the ridiculous penalties his team committed.
Orton sees his job is to get it to the other guys on the field with him. i dont think he would necessarily disagree that he might be the weakest link in a chain.
but maybe the weakest link is a bad analogy, maybe usung the wooden cog inside a tractors drive train is better. the engineer uses a piece of wood in a $100,000 machinery, knowing that that part would break down most often. basically, if you can plan and know where the weakness is, you can design the ret of the machine to make up for it.
this team so far doesnt need a guy who can make every play himself. they just need a guy who doesnt give the ball to the other team at critical moments; someone who puts the ball in a position to allow the playmakers to make plays.
"I want this team to be tough, smart and prepared to play well under pressure...Everybody here in this organization is going to be held accountable to do their job — their piece of the puzzle to make this team a competitor for a championship every season." J-Mac
by denver_diaspora on Oct 4, 2009 11:33 PM MDT up reply actions 2 recs
Great post DD.
I love the analogy. Where I come from is that I had no expectations for this team. None. Now that I see we have a championship caliber defense, I want the offense to be able to win a game for us. Yes, that’s what they did today. But again, it just didn’t feel right. Who can say that the game winning drive was a methodical, rhythm based drive? That’s why I loved our running game the past two weeks— we had an identity. I know the amoeba called for us to throw the ball, but Kyle was not executing.
I don’t want it to be all on the defense— they deserve better play on the offensive side of the ball.
by legendarywalton on Oct 4, 2009 11:37 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not going to jump on you here -- I agree on several points
His overall accuracy has me worried. I do not trust Orton in a clutch situation right now. In that case, I am hoping they hand it off to Moreno.
But, football is a team game first and foremost and I think that saying “Is Orton good/bad?” is asking the entirely wrong question. The proper question, all the moreso with McDaniels at the helm, is “Is Orton good/bad for the Broncos’ system?” The absolute worst that can be legitimately be said on this score is that he is highly serviceable.
And I’ve got to agree with others here — either this guy has the most charmed NFL career in the history of QBs, or his excellent win percentage and red zone stats are due to him in some significant way.
"3rd and 6, Elway shotgun... Elway, scrambling, looking, running-- DIVING!!!-- inside the 5 yard line for a first down! Is he only 37?! How important is this football game? How bad does John Elway want to win this football game? Where you see the quarterbacks go down: Not Elway!"
by Sharpe as a Tack on Oct 5, 2009 12:01 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm struggling with this for a few reasons
Either
a) I’m so in love with my own perceived ability to comprehend the game that I refuse to believe that he can be productive because he’s hard to watch
or
b) he has been surrounded by a tremendous supporting cast, and that’s why he fits in here— he won’t make mistakes because he knows his job is to complete a long handoff, and nothing more.
I can’t argue with the stats though. No INTs (although there should be a few, it is still a remarkable stretch) and four wins. I think he presents a tricky proposition. Do you lock him up long term? I say you can’t, unless he takes really small $
by legendarywalton on Oct 5, 2009 12:06 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
I certainly wouldn't sign him for more than 3 years
And even then, I would only do it on the (relatively) cheap. He is not the long-term answer. And this is coming from a long-time Orton apologist (my wife is a Bears fan, so I’ve watched him for a while).
Personally, I’m in agreement with Broncobear on the “eye test” — it is so fraught with subjectivity and so colored by pre-conceptions that it is at best on par with statistical analysis and is at worst far more inaccurate than stastical analysis. This is its own Fanpost, but really the case is clear-cut for me: I am so full of biases and hang-ups and vested interests that it is literally impossible for me to trust my own eyes. And I think I’m a fairly intelligent individual, not just some rabid homer.
The trick with stats is: get many of them, from several sources, telling different versions of the same story. Compile them all together, and then start to draw conclusions that buttress impressions garnered from subjective viewing experiences. If the two are in conflict, I think your approach is the right one: just be baffled and withhold judgment.
"3rd and 6, Elway shotgun... Elway, scrambling, looking, running-- DIVING!!!-- inside the 5 yard line for a first down! Is he only 37?! How important is this football game? How bad does John Elway want to win this football game? Where you see the quarterbacks go down: Not Elway!"
by Sharpe as a Tack on Oct 5, 2009 12:14 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's hard to say...
Let’s slow down…4-0 is great…Orton is playing mistake free ball. Give him time to learn the system and see what he can do. Don’t jump the gun and lock him up to a long term deal yet tho. Sure he won in Chicago when he started but Chicago is not a pass oriented team so it’s hard to say his talent was really put to good use. Hell, it’s gotta be something if he put up a pretty solid w/l record while there right?
Look at the almighty Cutler and see how his stats have changed since he’s been there. 141yds against a Lions defense that gives up almost 220/game. That’s not saying Cutler isn’t effective…it’s just saying that’s not how the Bears play…their defense is a bigger part of their game plan for winning. It was hard to really get Orton to shine and get into a consistent rhythm when he was there.
Just trying to be as optimistic as possible and still be a realist.
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by brohamm1978 on Oct 5, 2009 11:22 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Except.......
Cutler is doing better in the same system with those “lesser players” that Orton ever did. I don’t know about you, but that tells me something.
You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say will be misquoted and then used against you.
by improv88 on Oct 5, 2009 1:45 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
I dunno...
I have watched the games.
Yesterday, against Detriot, he was given so many gifts that it was crazy.
Turnovers in the red zone, 102 yard kickoff returns.
He played solid, but he also had multiple misses, a fumble while trying to scramble, holding the ball out (his own guy recovered it).
In the first half, it was 21-21, and Cutler did finish with that awesome helicoptor, but still hadn’t really taken a drive downfield.
by Mhantra on Oct 5, 2009 3:03 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Cutler is playing good...
But Seattle missed 2 east FG and would have won. So did Pittsburgh.
Chicago has been lucky, you could say.
Those that cant coach, compete!
Failing to plan is planning to fail.
All I want is 53 Rod Smiths. Is that asking too much????
"Peyton Hillis didn’t rip the sleeves off his jersey, they flew off out of fear."
Calijoefornia.
by boydy2669 on Oct 6, 2009 8:50 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
How can we bandy that excuse around...
And not call our first game lucky. It goes both ways guys…
by legendarywalton on Oct 6, 2009 11:49 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
The eye test is key
I said this earlier, but Orton’s play and his stats do not line up. I watched the whole game twice (once live and once on my DVR) and both times was dumbfounded as to his stats at the end of the game. The stats say he played very well. My eyes told me a completely different story. In reality I saw him make only two or three truly accurate throws over five yards the whole game: the crossing route to Marshall, the first throw to Scheffler in the 4th, and the bomb to Marshall that was knocked away at the last second. Everything else was off-target, sometimes severely.
No secret that I’m not an Orton supporter, but I still try to watch the game from an objective point of view, and right now I feel like I’m watching a time bomb. No picks yet, but a five-interception game right around the corner.
You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say will be misquoted and then used against you.
by improv88 on Oct 5, 2009 1:44 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Good enough for me, improv
Right, you don’t like him, and you have now noted most of the passes that he missed on to support that. Works for me. My issue is this – Ok, but now explain the 22 that he connected on (2 were called back on penalties unrelated to the throw or catch).
His play and his stats line up fine. I think that’s the issue that you’re missing. You’re waiting for that mistake that costs a game. If you wait long enough, you’ll be right, too – but you’ll have missed how many other good things while you’re waiting? He’s throwing better than Cutler did. Cutler’s line is better, his receivers have a long way to go but they’re better too and that argument, at any rate is both unimportant and illogical. It’s a different yer. Orton’s got better stats oveall and a better record. But you’re still demanding to argue that somehow, his stats and performance don’t align.
They align fine. They’re the same, the good and the bad, and every QB has both.
Hillis/Moreno in '09
by Emmett Smith on Oct 5, 2009 1:52 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
I didn't mention a single throw he missed
I mentioned the only three I saw that were on target. I’ve been done with the Cutler/Orton comparisons for months – there’s no point. This isn’t a comparison against anyone but Orton, and the bottom line is that I don’t trust him based on what I see. I see a QB who is not in control of the game. I see a QB who is only really accurate about 1 out of every 5 throws and depends on the receivers for the rest. I see a QB who is virtually inept at escaping a rush. And more than anything I see a QB who has managed to have all his weaknesses hidden by a tremendous defense that is allowing less than 10 points per game.
And this one:
He’s throwing better than Cutler did.
WHAT?! What are you looking at? I’m not making this a comparison, but when it comes down to accuracy, this isn’t even a discussion. Even this season with Cutler playing with the “far less talented supporting cast”, he has a better completion percentage, equal yards and more TDs. Bring up the INTs all you want, but Orton is NOT throwing the ball better.
You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say will be misquoted and then used against you.
by improv88 on Oct 5, 2009 2:11 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, look at the stat page
Orton has a better rating. More victories (that kind of matters). He’s not making the kinds of foolish mistakes that Cutler did. He has a better TD/INT ratio. Better QB rating – 97.7 is amazing. They both have 13 20+ passes but Orton has 3 40+ and Cutler 1. In a lot of ways – he’s playing better. Sorry that seems to upset you (and please – take some deep breaths, OK? This is just a football site). I just can’t find the evidence of the stuff you’re claiming.
Hillis/Moreno in '09
by Emmett Smith on Oct 5, 2009 2:15 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
And once again, stats are deceiving
The only thing the 40+ proves is that Orton has better receivers after the catch, considering that none of his 40+ were thrown more than 20. Does that matter in the final tally, no, but that particular stat is REALLY pointless. You’re right, the TD/INT ratio is a different story, and is the source of the rating difference as well. I’m going off of the “eyeball test”. I’ve watched three Bronco games (I couldn’t get the Raider game), and three Bears games – including that first disaster against Green Bay. Since that game, Cutler has outplayed Orton by a far margin, and done it with far less help. If I seem like this debate gets me riled, I hope it’s understandable – Orton is being propped up as some type of demi-god by benefitting from the best Defense in the NFL.
You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say will be misquoted and then used against you.
by improv88 on Oct 5, 2009 2:23 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Actually, no, I don't get that
Why get riled? C’mon – read Orton’s stats and explain to me whey that’s of issue. The/your ‘eyeball test’ doesn’t match what the coaches see, and that’s what concerns me, improv.
Look, we’re 4-0 and your acting like it’s absurd to be happy with our team including Orton.I’m sorry that upsets you.
Hillis/Moreno in '09
by Emmett Smith on Oct 5, 2009 2:27 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Orton only has better recievers because Cutler made them that way.
Just ask him. I’m sure he will have the Bears receivers whipped into shape in no time. On a serious note; I do not watch many Bear’s games, but isn’t Hester supposed to be pretty good at YAC?
by Quietone on Oct 5, 2009 2:40 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
So really it comes down to
What YOU BELIEVE to be the case, damn the stats.
hahahaha, excellent
by AllBroncsallday on Oct 5, 2009 4:10 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Eye Test
That’s the thing with Orton. You can’t trust your eyes. I know its odd. But it is the truth. You have to look at the stats. Consider it like flying an airplane in the fog. You can’t trust your eyes, you have to trust the instrument panel.
by Endzone on Oct 5, 2009 2:26 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Exactly
That’s what’s so perplexing. I’m not complaining, believe me, the worst 4-0 team sounds GREAT to me. It’s just getting the brain in alignment with what the eyes are seeing.
Richard Seymour is a girl.
by pubkeeper on Oct 5, 2009 2:42 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
I understand, believe me
some guys just win a lot. They’re not fancy. They may have a bad quarter or half, but they’re calm. They don’t get riled. They keep going after the plays that will change the game in our factor, and they keep at it until they find them. That’s what is happening. It’s a paradigm change from what a lot of folks expected, but it sure is working well.
And Quietone – lol on the joke! I’m not up on Hester’s current YAC, but they run a WCO variant and that’s based in YAC, so he should do well.
Hillis/Moreno in '09
by Emmett Smith on Oct 5, 2009 2:46 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's the thing about Orton
“…some guys just win a lot. They’re not fancy. They may have a bad quarter or half, but they’re calm. They don’t get riled.”
Orton will never get rattled. Never. That’s priceless in a QB.
A man does what he has to do, and sometimes it’s not what I believe he should do. There’s no reason to use up energy hating him for it. Shoot him if you have to, but don’t hate him.
Louis L’Amour
by bradley on Oct 5, 2009 2:49 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
This is it
It’s a paradigm change from what a lot of folks expected, but it sure is working well.
I’m used to the opposite, Cutler making highlights and Denver missing the playoffs.
Does not compute.
Richard Seymour is a girl.
by pubkeeper on Oct 5, 2009 2:56 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Orton's winning record in Chicago
was attributed to the Chicago Defense and run game.
Orton comes here, and his wins are attributed to Denver’s suddenly-stellar Defense and revived running game. Maybe Orton isn’t a good QB, he’s just a great and powerful wizard. :-)
"Take what you can. Give nothing back!"
by Colorado_Kitten on Oct 5, 2009 2:56 PM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
Pay no attention to the throw behind the curtain...
lol
Hillis/Moreno in '09
by Emmett Smith on Oct 5, 2009 3:09 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Go support some one else....so sick of this crap improv....
Either support the team or dont……I dont care…but this stuff is just so YOU can be proved wrong.
FANS DONT DEATH RIDE THEIR OWN QB BECAUSE YOU WERE SO OFFENDED WE TRADED CUTLER.
Those that cant coach, compete!
Failing to plan is planning to fail.
All I want is 53 Rod Smiths. Is that asking too much????
"Peyton Hillis didn’t rip the sleeves off his jersey, they flew off out of fear."
Calijoefornia.
by boydy2669 on Oct 6, 2009 8:52 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
I would say
That the winning drive was a methodical drive slowly working it up the field until Marshall pulled some awesome and took it to the house when he had the chance. If that pass isn’t caught, or if Marshall’s defender makes a good play and gets Marshall out of bounds then the drive probably would’ve gone back to methodical. Just because the touchdown didn’t come from inside the red zone, doesn’t mean the drive previously to that play wasn’t a methodical march down the field.
by gOOn on Oct 5, 2009 9:13 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sort of agree
the only reason it didn’t look methodical at the time was because:
A) The TD was the 3rd play. Hard to get a method down when you score fast.
B) The first two plays went for an average of 11 yds per. Hard to look too methodical when you are burning up the field in large chunks.
C) Add in Marshall’s catch with no YAC, and you get over 13 yards per play. Again, hard to look methodical when you are eating up the field.
The offense was moving the ball at will through three plays. Plus, Marshall’s catch was at the Dallas 33 yard line. My calculations put that at a a 51-yard field goal. With no more yards off the field, that’s in Matt Prater’s range. His original argument was kind of silly.
by BroncosBassist on Oct 5, 2009 9:52 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
hater
Vinny Gambino: "Ms. Devito, Can you tell the court what this is a picture of?"
Ms. Devito: "You know what it's of"
by Bronco_Fan_Tom on Oct 5, 2009 11:14 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
I do have to give credit on the 4th quarter though...
He has played better in the 4th during the Raiders, Browns, and ’Boys games.
by legendarywalton on Oct 4, 2009 11:22 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Still injured
until the glove comes off Orton is a bad ass whos doing his job. When the glove comes off (his natural style etc.) then I will be more harsh in my comments or judgements. Hell if i cant write with my hand properly i want to stay home from work let alone go out and throw a football
http://www.davusx.net/assets/db/la_la_land.gif
"We should have kept Seattle and dumped San Diego from the Division"
Davis and Sharpe to the Hall!
by Jon Tollerud on Oct 5, 2009 2:48 AM MDT up reply actions 3 recs
+1
Considering the nature of the injury and the glove, Orton is performing better than I would’ve hoped.
by CoastalBronco on Oct 5, 2009 12:52 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
That only adds to the confusion
I actually like Orton, but he is confusing to me too. I completely see the “grass is greener” argument.
Sometimes it boils down to which is better? Fewer big eye-popping throws coupled with fewer costly mistakes or Sportscenter highlights all day coupled with boneheaded plays at the most inopportune time?
As long as they keep winning, I’ll go with what they’re doing. I’m not a FF player so stats don’t get me going as much as some. I just want the W.
Richard Seymour is a girl.
by pubkeeper on Oct 5, 2009 10:48 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hmm
I am a FF player but don’t let that play a factor when it involves my team. I look at the most important stats for a Qb…TD/Turnover ratio. Right now Orton’s sitting pretty. There isn’t a need for him to take chances downfield…I’m perfectly happy with the screen passes or short slants and let the WRs make the plays.
It looks like BMarsh has learned the playbook. LOL@ that. I’m hoping his play yesterday is signs of good things to come.
Favorite Blogs:
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by brohamm1978 on Oct 5, 2009 11:25 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think there is more...
Keeping the chains moving to give your defense a breather is also important…and fair or unfair the QB is held responsible for that. He needs to become more accurate to give his defense a well deserved rest. Hopefully that will begin to happen, maybe when that darn glove comes off.
by bonaire on Oct 5, 2009 11:47 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Interesting point
He needs to become more accurate
Well, dang…he had a 68+% completion rate. How much more accurate does he need to be?
Hillis/Moreno in '09
by Emmett Smith on Oct 5, 2009 11:56 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Actually my post has been about the first half...
That has been my confusion with him is his slow 1st halves. I don’t have the numbers but he seems to be much more inaccurate in the first half. We had too many 3 and outs. Do you not agree that we had too many 3 and outs in the 1st half?
by bonaire on Oct 5, 2009 12:17 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
3 and out's
Just for what it is worth….
I thought most of those 3 and outs should be blamed on penalties. There were a lot of penalties in the first half. None on Orton that I know of though.
I'd rather watch a TEAM play than a few stars.
by HighPlainsBronc on Oct 5, 2009 7:26 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Exactly
That’s what’s so weird. I would not have guessed that was his percentage. I remember how he missed Gaffney early on and a couple others as well. But, you’re absolutely right. 68% is solid as a rock and hard to beat, especially coupled with no INT’s.
Richard Seymour is a girl.
by pubkeeper on Oct 5, 2009 12:43 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
and possibly higher if you take out the intentional throwaways
Still, he did have a rough first half, as you allude to in your article. As well as C.Buck and KnoMo were doing relative to KO’s success, I was puzzled why we went to the air so much in the first half.
by CoastalBronco on Oct 5, 2009 12:55 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
In the first half
As noted above – Orton had two completions called back in the 2nd quarter, back to back, on penalties. Without the penalties, he’s above 70% and we might have scored.
BTW, we went to the air, McD said, because he perceived a weakness in their secondary (and, they expected the running game).
Hillis/Moreno in '09
by Emmett Smith on Oct 5, 2009 1:15 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Fantasy Football
I was appalled when channel 9 here in Denver had a fantasy football expert in to talk on their post game show. Fantasy Football is NOT real football.
Brohamm, I’m not taking issue with your post. I’m just saying that Fantasy Football is like having sex with a blow-up doll. It ain’t the real thing.
by Endzone on Oct 5, 2009 12:19 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
I've always refused fantasy leagues
I only do a yearly one for NHL with my Canadian in-laws. For the NFL, I’d never do one because I love rooting for my team always, no matter what, and I also like just rooting for other teams during the season for a variety of annual or weekly reasons, but having fantasy players on opposing teams seems to taint that for me. But I’m guessing others have no problem just ignoring their fantasy league for their favorite team.
by bonaire on Oct 5, 2009 1:07 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not sure I agree with luck but maybe weakest link...
If Cutler would have zipped that pass to Moreno, we would all be saying what a strong arm he has to be able to make that pass. As for throwing the ball up for Marshall in a 1on1 situation…I think we should do it more.
However, if somebody asked me what was the weakest position on the offense, I might have to say QB. I’m curious what others would say if they had to choose. He just has to start playing better in the 1st half. We cannot expect our D to keep every opponent to under 10 points. I think he may have the skill set, he just needs to execute.
by bonaire on Oct 4, 2009 11:16 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
lol
I posted the same thing about Cutler before I read your response. :) Great minds and all that.
by BroncosBassist on Oct 5, 2009 5:32 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
I would say
Blocking for our returners is the weakest part of this team. Royal and McKinnely couldn’t buy a block.
by gOOn on Oct 5, 2009 9:15 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree that the overall weakest link.....
is the return game. But I was talking about the offense.
by bonaire on Oct 5, 2009 9:49 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
+1
I wish we’d stolen Buffalo’s special teams coach rather than KC’s.
by CoastalBronco on Oct 5, 2009 12:56 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm actually fine with our ST coach
While I’d like better returns, our coverage unit has been rock solid, which is more important to me.
Richard Seymour is a girl.
by pubkeeper on Oct 5, 2009 1:47 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Totally unfair summary of the TD passes
Especially the first one. He threw into coverage on a DE. He threaded the needle, the DE proved he’s not a pass coverage guy, and Knowshon made it count. I hate these comparisons because they don’t mean anything to me, but if that had been Jay Cutler, everyone would have been going on and on about his arm.
by BroncosBassist on Oct 5, 2009 5:28 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
What impressed me
was Moreno catching the ball despite it going through the defender. That usually results in an incompletion. But one reason it got through was Orton zipped it pretty good. Like you implied, if Cutler had thrown it everybody would assume it got through because the defender didn’t have time to react.
"Surprised to see you, Captain, though pleased." — from Star Trek episode Space Seed.
by spock on Oct 5, 2009 7:10 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Orton and knowshon have a lot in common
they are winners who make everybody around them better….
Precision in thought, concision in style, decision in life.
by Jeremy Bolander on Oct 5, 2009 7:46 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Stats can be misleading
I said in the first quarter that if I came here today and everyone said, “Orton did great, quit being a hater”, that I would comment. So, here I am commenting. I think people are using stats too much to try to make their argument, kind of like “who are you gonna trust, me or your lying eyes?”.
I watched that game start to finish and I will agree with the other posters that felt Orton stunk up the first part of the game. He wasn’t Ja Marcus Russell inaccurate, or even Romo inaccurate, but his misses were bad misses and a fair number of his completions weren’t great passes. Some put the receiver in no position to make a play…some squeaked past. It was ugly. I don’t want rocket laser throws, but it would be nice to at least get close on some of those long passes.
All that being said, I prefer the wins and the absence of interceptions. I do not think that Orton is garbage. I don’t even think he’s bad, but when we are talking about improvement, there is definitely room for some from Orton. If he can make all the passes in practice (with accuracy), he needs to calm down a bit and make them in the game with at least more frequency. To say he had a spectacular day is as much an exaggeration as saying he’s garbage. He’s okay…but I’m hoping to see much better when the glove is off.
by NDbronco on Oct 5, 2009 10:27 AM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
Did he stink up the first half, or did the HORRENDOUS O line play and penalties stink it up? I say the latter. Orton could have been better, but he did not stink....the O line did though!
Those that cant coach, compete!
Failing to plan is planning to fail.
All I want is 53 Rod Smiths. Is that asking too much????
"Peyton Hillis didn’t rip the sleeves off his jersey, they flew off out of fear."
Calijoefornia.
by boydy2669 on Oct 5, 2009 11:59 AM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
right on Boydy!
you can throw in the crappy field position as well. In fact the field position has been hoorendous all season long. I wonder how many times the offense has started inside the 10 yard line.
by rocko1 on Oct 5, 2009 12:18 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
True
It’s a result of our mediocre (so far) return game, although our coverage units (which is more important to me) have been fantastic. Not only has Prater been booming kickoffs leading to touchbacks, when the other team does run the ball out they’re frequently tackled before they reached the 20. I read somewhere that we’re leading the league in average starting position (barely past the 20 yard line) of the opponent after kickoffs. That’s almost as big a surprise as the play of the defense. In a sense our punt coverage has been even more impressive, although the stats won’t show it, because Kern’s hang time has been low enough that the returner has been able to start upfield before the defenders are in on him. That’s a dangerous situation, yet so far they’ve managed to prevent big returns.
"Surprised to see you, Captain, though pleased." — from Star Trek episode Space Seed.
by spock on Oct 5, 2009 7:34 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
When pass rushers are frequently getting pressure
the QB tends to be inaccurate even on plays in which he isn’t pressured. I’ve seen it happen to Brady and P. Manning, and if it can happen to them it can damn sure happen to Orton. A good pass rush messes with the QB’s internal clock and causes him to hurry all his throws (because he can’t know in advance which plays the defense will be in on him). It leads to what look like unforced errors, although in reality they’re attributable to effective defense. Not having Hamilton hurt us (but not as much as having a tackle out would have), and Harris not being 100% might have hurt us also.
"Surprised to see you, Captain, though pleased." — from Star Trek episode Space Seed.
by spock on Oct 5, 2009 7:22 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Harris had to get used to Ware
he false started twice in anticipation…. and then was rock solid after that. Not that it is truly worth weighing in realtime, but perhaps your greenblood can appreciate this: false starting vs. Ware beats failing to block him and allowing a sack or pressure. You don’t lose the down, and you don’t run the risk of letting an elite pass rusher gain a momentum advantage.
Precision in thought, concision in style, decision in life.
by Jeremy Bolander on Oct 5, 2009 7:49 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
+1
"A man can fail, but he is not a failure until he blames someone else." J. Paul Getty
by SteveAssassin on Oct 5, 2009 12:56 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, let's don't forget that his finger was split open a month ago.
I think we are winning in spite of him, not because of his "game-manager" skill.
Fact is, Orton has basically made us forget about that fact – he’s been playing pretty good even if he hadn’t had the injury.
A man does what he has to do, and sometimes it’s not what I believe he should do. There’s no reason to use up energy hating him for it. Shoot him if you have to, but don’t hate him.
Louis L’Amour
by bradley on Oct 5, 2009 1:07 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
That was supposed to be a response to Legendary Walton....
….somewhere else, but it skipped to this spot. Weird.
A man does what he has to do, and sometimes it’s not what I believe he should do. There’s no reason to use up energy hating him for it. Shoot him if you have to, but don’t hate him.
Louis L’Amour
by bradley on Oct 5, 2009 1:12 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
If it were Brady or Favre playing with that injury & glove
we’d never forget it because the game announcers would remind you every other play how good they are playing despite the injury and how tough the QB is, etc. Every game write-up would mention it. Every analyst would be discussing it. And if that team with injured QB went 4 -0 without a single interception? Please.
With Orton, it’s never mentioned. Ever.
"Take what you can. Give nothing back!"
by Colorado_Kitten on Oct 5, 2009 2:48 PM MDT up reply actions 2 recs
THat's the way I htink Orton would like it.
He’s a tough son of a bitch, and doesn’t even seem to have a tought in his head that he has an excuse for his bad plays. He owns them as his own.
by Mhantra on Oct 5, 2009 3:09 PM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
Well said.
A man does what he has to do, and sometimes it’s not what I believe he should do. There’s no reason to use up energy hating him for it. Shoot him if you have to, but don’t hate him.
Louis L’Amour
by bradley on Oct 5, 2009 4:50 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree 100%
ANY QB in the NFL could win with the Denver defense right now – even Jamarcus the Hutt.
You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say will be misquoted and then used against you.
by improv88 on Oct 5, 2009 1:31 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nah.
Ok, improv, I get your point – but that last statement was absurd beyond recognition. Did you miss the discussion via McDaniels this week about the number of pays that Kyle changed at the line, permitting us to gain big chunks of ground instead of a yard or a few? Russell doesn’t have that intellect or that knowledge, he doesn’t have his work ethic and his numbers are dreadful because
1. He terrible and
2. He doesn’t seem to care.
Unless we’ve arrived in an alternate universe, I can’t scribe either to Orton – and neither can you. Terrible QBs throw lots of INTs. Orton doesn’t. Terrible QBs don’t throw for over 68% completion rates – Orton did. Terrible QBs don’t have +5 TD/INT ratios or go over 150 passes without an INT, and they certainly don’t notch a 117.5 QB rating. I know that you don’t like Orton, and that’s fine —No problem, truly. But let’s keep it to reasonable arguments.
Hillis/Moreno in '09
by Emmett Smith on Oct 5, 2009 1:42 PM MDT up reply actions 2 recs
It was a joke, I didn't get the wink on the end.
You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say will be misquoted and then used against you.
by improv88 on Oct 5, 2009 1:50 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Russel part, not the defense part.
You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say will be misquoted and then used against you.
by improv88 on Oct 5, 2009 1:53 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Good to know
Look, my friend, you seem like you’re getting pretty angry. Recently, you were claiming that Orton has issues with INTs (no, historically – one season since high school). I’m not trying to bait you – I’m curious as to why you’re seeing everything through this lens of how bad Orton is even when the evidence just isn’t there. And yes, I, too have played football. Not much, certainly (not well, either), but you can read play books just fine without being a college QB. It’s almost like it’s a personal thing with you and him. I don’t get it. I’m not trying to irritate you at all. A simple discussion gets almost instantly into the hostility thing. What’s up?
Hillis/Moreno in '09
by Emmett Smith on Oct 5, 2009 2:22 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm well aware that this subject ticks me off
But I’ll try to explain this a bit better. I’ve been breaking down NFL QBs for several years now, charting tendencies based on everything from personal style of play to mechanics to the system they play in to their decision making (especially how often they get around to their 3rd or 4th read before dumping the ball off or throwing it away). Without going into something that should probably be a fanpost, Orton does not score well in any of them save for his willingness to throw the ball away, which he does too often.
His mechanics are inconsistent, especially his release point and his near inability to throw on the run.
His style of play is overly-cautious (as evidenced by his career YPA and percentage of completions to RBs).
He rarely if ever gets around to his 3rd or 4th read, often taking his 1st and 2nd and then dumping it off whether he is under pressure or not. (This may be something he is being told to do. If so, it feels like distrust in his abilities.)
He does not sense pressure well, nor does he react well to it.
He is not accurate on the deep ball (I know in the past I have used the blanket term “he can’t throw the deep ball”), and he consistently proven he is not accurate with it.
He does not hit his receivers in stride very often, allowing them to continue on at full speed
All this to say that nothing in Orton’s career lines up with any tendencies of any of the great QBs. And yet, with a reasonably good four game stretch (the best of his career, and he’s only thrown more than one TD once), he is being talked up by apologists as “exactly what we need”, “proving the doubters wrong”, all while being asked to do next to nothing thanks to the defense. History suggests that as soon as the defense falters (and I hope it never does), Orton’s career tendencies will be on display and he will surface as what he is – a very ordinary QB with very ordinary skills who happens to be a very likable guy but unable to carry the team.
To answer a question I’m sure I’ll be asked, “What does he have to do prove himself?” I actually do have an answer for that: 1) Improve on his deep ball, 2) Show the ability to carry the offense when the running game is sputtering (so far this season it has been the other way around), 3) Increase the accuracy – this doesn’t mean completion pct, it means hitting guys in stride at every level, and 4) show a consistent ability to perform well when behind late in the game and the defense knows that he must throw (I realize this means the Broncos actually have to be behind). The game against Atlanta is frequently quoted as proof that he can do so. One game? Really?
Keep in mind that I do not believe that any QB in history has had every category in spades, but for the most part the great QBs are weak only in one or two areas, not all but one or two.
You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say will be misquoted and then used against you.
by improv88 on Oct 5, 2009 2:54 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Good Reply
Good reply improv. I have a few questions:
1. Is Orton improving?
2. Is McD teaching him?
3. I agree that Orton’s mechanics are lacking – does he have the ability to improve?
I am not blind. Orton can improve, imo. Are you throwing him under the bus already? Finally, does the team NEED a “great” QB?
by Endzone on Oct 5, 2009 3:02 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Let's see if I can answer this
1. With only 4 games, my immediate answer would be “no”, at least in the areas listed above. One that isn’t listed that he is improving in is his calmness in the pocket. As has been noted frequently, it took awhile for him to realize he would actually have time to throw. Outside of that, he has yet to be challenged much, and where he has it hasn’t been particularly good. His performance on 3rd and long is almost non-existent (playing it too safe too often), his ball-placement is erratic at best, and he’s been the beneficiary of some astounding luck in dropped interceptions and deflections.
2. There’s only so much McD can do. As a head coach, how much hands-on time can he really spend breaking down and rebuilding Orton’s game? I realize everyone has anointed McDaniels as the greatest QB coach in the league, but the bottom line is that he coached up ONE guy – Cassel, and thus far, whatever Cassel learned doesn’t seem to have stuck. Brady was already a great QB before McD became part of the equation.
3. The wild-card question. Typically an NFL QB does deviate far from the mechanics they entered the league with. Some learn to play within them quite well (Phillip Rivers – have you ever seen someone with an uglier throwing motion so accurate downfield?), while some overcome them by sheer natural talent (Brett Favre). In my personal opinion, the best we can hope for is that Orton learns to work within his lack of mechanics.
Am I throwing him under the bus? It probably sounds like it most of the time, but part of that is trying to balance the tide of over-praise that stacks up on the other side. I guess to a degree I am since the one tendency that all great QBs have is that they make those around them better, and throughout his career it has been the other way around with Kyle Orton. This year is a good example – last season the Bronco offense was derided for not scoring enough in spite of the offensive output. The same is happening this season, but with the added gut-punch of the output of both yards and points being down significantly, in spite of a possibly better supporting cast and a supposed offensive genius calling the shots.
And last but not least, for a single season in which a team has a great defense (ala 2000 Ravens and ’85 Bears), no – a team does not need a great QB. For any level of sustained success, history says yes.
You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say will be misquoted and then used against you.
by improv88 on Oct 5, 2009 3:33 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Regarding number one
Cutler had a good third down completion ratio last year, but the price he paid for taking the chances that led to that high ratio was the great majority of his picks were either in the red zone — voiding scoring opportunities — or in the shadow of his own goal posts — leading to scoring opportunities for the other team. Then he’s excused for losing because we had a bad defense, even though he did his part in “helping” them give up points. Needless to say, Orton doesn’t do that.
"Surprised to see you, Captain, though pleased." — from Star Trek episode Space Seed.
by spock on Oct 5, 2009 7:47 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
"The Russell part, not the defense part"
And therefore not the “any” part.
"Surprised to see you, Captain, though pleased." — from Star Trek episode Space Seed.
by spock on Oct 5, 2009 7:37 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thank You!
Everytime I watch Orton; I want to support him; I want to praise him, but it is really really hard sometimes.
by D-fence on Oct 4, 2009 11:45 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
I hope it is the glove
I am still willing to give Orton the benefit of the doubt….dislocated finger with penetration through the skin…I think that is “almost” a compound fracture…messy messy stuff. So…he struggled with accuracy and I will simply go with the glove explanation (to say nothing about the residual soreness in his finger!)…However, Romo also struggled with accuracy, and another explanation on the day might be that the defenses, on both sides, made it a tough day to be a QB. Doesn’t quite explain it all, but winning good close games takes a special something…Elway had it, Montana had it, and though I am not about to put Orton on THAT pedastal, I do think he gets some love for making big plays at big moments….but I do hope, when the glove comes off, he is not missing receivers quite as often….I feel like this is a bit nit picky though..it was great game by a team that reached way down inside for some heart, strength and moxie!
Hugo Norton
by Hugo Norton on Oct 4, 2009 10:18 PM MDT reply actions 1 recs
Keep something in mind
We tend to remember the problems that he has. I didn’t like the inaccuracy in the 1st half, but who knows what it was? Despite this - Orton had a QB rating of 117.5 for the game! At that rate, is he as bad as we tend to think?
Hillis/Moreno in '09
by Emmett Smith on Oct 4, 2009 10:25 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
I don't like passer ratings.
I think it’s a weird statistic. Besides, SABERmetricians try to control for strange occurrences like tipped passes, long YAC, etc. You can argue that this system is designed for YAC, but you can never “assume” or even credit the QB for what Marshall did…. that was a phenomenal individual performance.
If I started spouting off stats about how poorly he had played during the preseason, it was dismissed far too easily. Trust what you see with your eyes and augment that with statistics— that’s what I’ve learned from Moneyball. Unfortunately, I do not like what I see out of him.
by legendarywalton on Oct 4, 2009 11:31 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
I know. That's fine
What else did we see out of him? Despite the feelings of those who watched, Orton completed over 68% of his passes today. That’s not garbage. He had a lousy first half – I noted that. but he ended up the game with 68% completed, 2 TD and no INTs.
What we tend to see is exaggerated by our emotions and I can’t help be be aware of what a factor that is today. The ‘eye-ball test’ is meaningless, frankly. Production is king. Orton keeps on winning. His completions are up, his TDs are very good, his INTs are non-existent and people are complaining about that. He can get better, and frankly, that’s a big plus, not a minus. Sure, believe what you want, no problem. But this guy has us 4-0 and every conceivable measurement shows that he’s a huge part of our success.
Hillis/Moreno in '09
by Emmett Smith on Oct 4, 2009 11:46 PM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
BTW
Great report as always Bear!
by legendarywalton on Oct 4, 2009 11:57 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thanks, lw
Always a pleasure to debate with you!
Hillis/Moreno in '09
by Emmett Smith on Oct 5, 2009 12:00 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
I liked Orton today
Watching the first half, I was much more concerned about stupid penalties (and a couple bad calls by the officials, honestly) than Orton’s play. I didn’t take notes, but that is my memory, so I’m lead to believe that I thought he was doing ok. Maybe there were a few big gains negated by penalties? Could be that I felt like the penalties were putting him in a bad position (like 3rd and 20) that would make most quarterbacks screw up.
by BroncosBassist on Oct 5, 2009 5:35 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Good Point
Like you, I am relying on my memory, but it seemed to me that Kyle was having trouble connecting mainly on longer passes, while doing well on the shorter ones. Being put into 2nd and 3rd and long obviously forced him into attempting longer throws which I remember as about 100% unsuccessful. (Although I did like to see the offense finally trying some “bombs” down the field!)
I simply cannot believe that he is that poor a passer, and while the Dallas D was part of the reason, and maybe even some nervousness on Kyle’s part as another part, I will, until proved wrong, believe that the glove is the main reason for the inaccuracy. Lose the glove and I think the real Kyle Orton will finally emerge.
by BroncoFan.mx on Oct 5, 2009 8:32 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
agreed
The glove has to be affecting longer throws more than shorter ones. It makes intuitive sense, sitting here as an armchair QB. I can’t prove it, but it sounds right.
by BroncosBassist on Oct 5, 2009 9:54 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
AMEN Doc....AMEN!
Those that cant coach, compete!
Failing to plan is planning to fail.
All I want is 53 Rod Smiths. Is that asking too much????
"Peyton Hillis didn’t rip the sleeves off his jersey, they flew off out of fear."
Calijoefornia.
by boydy2669 on Oct 5, 2009 11:59 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
DON'T trust what you see with your eyes
unless they’ve been properly informed by context. What too many Orton detractors can’t quite get through their heads is the bottom line. When he plays his teams tend to win. People keep trying to explain that away instead of trying to understand what he’s doing to make it happen. Changing calls at the line of scrimmage, avoiding disastrous plays, inspiring teammates on both sides of the ball are merely the most obvious intangibles that might help account for it. Conversely, guys pining for Cutler’s laser throws tend to overlook the intangibles that make defeat possible.
"Surprised to see you, Captain, though pleased." — from Star Trek episode Space Seed.
by spock on Oct 5, 2009 8:00 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Morton ... Elway ... Plumber ... Cutler ....
I have watched every QB since Craig Morton that donned a Bronco’s uniform. Each has had some great games and each has come out struggling at times. I remember more than a few games where old #7 could not hit the broadside of a barn – and then turn it around and have a sizzling game the next week. The QBs and their targets are all human and subject to normal human error and variation. No luck in hitting BM – you go the extra effort to hit your playmakers because you know they will make plays.
by Flunkie on Oct 5, 2009 7:27 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wow....
That’s exactly what I was thinking! I’m not going anywhere near an Elway/Orton comparison, but I remember games (even in Super Bowl years) when Elway looked AWFUL – he even got booed off the field in Mile High.
But remember, it’s WINS THAT COUNT! Which is exactly why we ALL love Elway, and why I’m on the Orton wagon until he proves to be anything other than a winner..
"A man can fail, but he is not a failure until he blames someone else." J. Paul Getty
by SteveAssassin on Oct 5, 2009 1:01 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
The most sacks against Romo....ever!!! What you got to say now???
Awesome bear and great report. Come on msm…you no good somes of a britches!!
by bfree2bronc on Oct 4, 2009 10:48 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
the phrase is
“sons of bitches”
"I want this team to be tough, smart and prepared to play well under pressure...Everybody here in this organization is going to be held accountable to do their job — their piece of the puzzle to make this team a competitor for a championship every season." J-Mac
by denver_diaspora on Oct 4, 2009 11:35 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
3 words?
I always thought that was one word.
Richard Seymour is a girl.
by pubkeeper on Oct 5, 2009 10:54 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Depends on where you grew up
Where I’m from, it’s definitely one word, and about 2.5 syllables.
Sumbiches. There’s definitely no ‘t’ in it, and you could probably spell it sombiches and get away with it. :)
by BroncosBassist on Oct 5, 2009 1:08 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ah, good point
I’ve heard that and sunsabitches as well.
Richard Seymour is a girl.
by pubkeeper on Oct 5, 2009 1:48 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
John will love that post
‘Derivations of Southern Cuss-words and Their Place in the Evolution of Football’. It has a certain ring to it…lol
Hillis/Moreno in '09
by Emmett Smith on Oct 5, 2009 2:23 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Someone should make a fanpost about it. lol
Bringing Bronco love from 1,112 miles away
by kentuckybronco on Oct 5, 2009 3:32 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
i am way outta my league.
"I want this team to be tough, smart and prepared to play well under pressure...Everybody here in this organization is going to be held accountable to do their job — their piece of the puzzle to make this team a competitor for a championship every season." J-Mac
by denver_diaspora on Oct 5, 2009 11:46 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
I didn't know that the 5 our guys got today was the most against Romo. Cool! Very good post, Bear Rec'd!
Our D is looking more and more like a “shut down” defense. I am thrilled – and amazed – with their stops today. 26 points allowed in 4 games – I think the closest to it is in the 50’s somewhere, if I remember correctly. I like the preparedness of this team. No surprises from their opponent. I have noticed how effective their adjustments are especially after the 1st quarter.
I like Orton. I am not surprised at his success. He seems to have a cool head. I especially like his comradarie with the rest of the O. Bad memories of Griese and Cutler in that area. They seemed to forget that football is a team game.
Thanks, Bear for you report.
by Blackknigh on Oct 4, 2009 11:15 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
I loved Deion on NFLNet.
Whining like a little girl about the Cowboys not using Whitten. Now mind you I am no football analyst but it was very plain to see if Whitten didn’t stay back to block that Romo was going to get killed. Is Deion that stupid our did I see something different? I just would like to know because I have a little respect for the 2 sport star. Just a little though.
by bfree2bronc on Oct 4, 2009 11:50 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
I'll always have respect for his (and others') athletic ability
But it takes a special guy to make me give props to their intellectual ability. Usually they’re no better than a hot cheerleader: while filling out the chest, someone forgot to fill in the head.
"3rd and 6, Elway shotgun... Elway, scrambling, looking, running-- DIVING!!!-- inside the 5 yard line for a first down! Is he only 37?! How important is this football game? How bad does John Elway want to win this football game? Where you see the quarterbacks go down: Not Elway!"
by Sharpe as a Tack on Oct 5, 2009 12:07 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
You got it
They used Witten very effectively. He was, in essence Romo’s personal protector. You get MVP honors if you keep your QB from getting killed.
by BroncosBassist on Oct 5, 2009 5:38 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Regarding Orton
There are some players, in all sports, that you just shake your head at. You know that they are not all that talented, not the greatest stats, practically invisible on the field/court, yet somehow the team wins. The next season when that player is benched for somebody more talented the team struggles until Mr. No-Talent comes in and then it’s like Jeckyll and Hyde. The team seems to wake up and the wins return.
I have played in many different Leagues, many different sports at many levels, plus coached a bit also. There are those guys who just win. Orton is one of them. Do not underestimate somebody like that. Cutler is the opposite of Orton, especially in crunch time. Don’t know why, but that is a fact.
When we were down 10-0, do you REALLY think Cutler would have thrown the ball away when necessary? Do you REALLY think that Cutler would have 0 interceptions so far this season? Do you think Cutler would be on the sideline rallying the troops like Orton does? Personally, I’ll take Mr. No-Talent Winner over Mr. Big-Armed-Choker any day.
Make those miracles happen - Jon Keyworth
by IgorBStrange on Oct 5, 2009 1:01 AM MDT reply actions 9 recs
I agree with BB on Igors comment,
Rec’d comment
Also thanks Doc, nice read.
also Rec’d
Real Power, comes with the realization that One cannot change the Moment;
only ones perception of it: Atitude! JQM
by UB3 on Oct 5, 2009 7:58 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
The ironic thing about Cutler...
The last two games, he’s performed very well as a “game manager” for the Bears, putting up solid but unspectacular numbers and avoiding mistakes.
by Velveeta on Oct 5, 2009 7:00 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
That Bears offense and defense will do that to a guy.
:)
by BroncosBassist on Oct 5, 2009 9:55 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Interesting note on that
Last night, on one of the ‘analysis’ shows (I don’t much pay attention to which: They have an odd and uninspiring sameness to me) a discussion of Cutler in Chi started. The gist of the agreement among the 4 commentators wwas that Cutler is in this difficult situation in which he has to throw without being in a rhythm, has to make 3rd down throws aftre short running plays fail and that it’s a very hard thing to do. Two questions:
1. Where were they when Orton had those disadvantages?
2. I pointed this out some months back. It sparked some nice debate, which I enjoyed, but here’s the issue: why was that many thought that I was pandering to Orton then, but it’s just reality (and, I believe that it is) now?
The answer to both is that if you have a belief, you will tend to find things that support it (I’m as guilty as anyone). But if you have a prejudice, you’ll move heaven and earth to maintain it.
Hillis/Moreno in '09
by Emmett Smith on Oct 5, 2009 10:02 AM MDT up reply actions 2 recs
I Liked that last sentence so much
I made it my signature
... if you have a belief, you will tend to find things that support it. But if you have a prejudice, you’ll move heaven and earth to maintain it. BroncoBear
by 3nS on Oct 5, 2009 12:17 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Excellent comment, doc
You’re right. Too many people are willing to make apologies for guys like Cutler while throwing guys like Orton under the bus. My favorite example is the Moreno TD throw — a lot of people are saying it was a bad throw, should’ve been picked, etc. If it had been Cutler, they would’ve been all aflutter over his cannon arm and his ability to fit it into a window that was basically closed. Orton just got lucky and made a dumb decision.
by BroncosBassist on Oct 5, 2009 1:10 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Unlike Cutler
Orton did not take credit for the throw/completion. He said he got lucky and Moreno bailed him out. Cutler would have strutted around like a peacock and gushed about how he has the strongest arm in the league.
by Endzone on Oct 5, 2009 1:50 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Igor, I was about to make a much more longwinded post
saying essentially the same thing. Thankfully, you beat me to it, since I’m almost out of time and have to get ready to go to work. I wrote a piece awhile back in which I linked to an article which discussed basketball player Shane Battier, who is exactly the kind of player you’re talking about. Can’t run, can’t jump, can’t shoot, yet wherever he goes his team is better when he plays. He usually guards the other team’s best scorer, who usually drools at the prospect of going up against this no-talent nobody. And who regularly has an “off” game. (It couldn’t have been Battier, because you can “see” he’s not that good!) Orton is the football equivalent of Shane Battier. When he plays his team does well, and he’s regularly seen as the weak link holding them back from even greater things.
"Surprised to see you, Captain, though pleased." — from Star Trek episode Space Seed.
by spock on Oct 5, 2009 8:14 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
I remember reading that article, Spock
It was one of my favorites about the “intangibles” of any given sport. I remember how all of the players Battier defended never gave him credit opting for platitudes like “I wasn’t on my game” or “the shots weren’t falling tonight” when, in reality, the reason the shots didn’t fall, was entirely Battier’s influence. It’s the same thing with Orton. He doesn’t get the credit because he doesn’t pass the eye test, but eventually you have to look at the end results. He does things on the field that are unimpressive yet he consistently ends up on the winning side. People dismiss him by saying that his W-L record is because of other factors (the D, coaching, luck, etc) but if he keeps winning, then maybe his great record is actually because of him.
by bowma101 on Oct 5, 2009 8:25 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm sure Orton is just lucky
(wink wink, nudge nudge) and that acquiring such players is part of McDaniels’ m.o. If a player is consistently “lucky” the smart thing to do is go to the sucker, er coach, of his team and make him an offer he can’t resist.
"Surprised to see you, Captain, though pleased." — from Star Trek episode Space Seed.
by spock on Oct 6, 2009 9:21 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ahhh.. glorious victory.
ORANGE CRUSH! ... need I say more?
by USMCWall on Oct 5, 2009 1:44 AM MDT reply actions 0 recs
Great post, bear!
This play made me come up off the couch —
Prater kicked the ensuing kickoff into the stands, splitting the uprights for emphasis.
They should give a team 3 points and make them kick off again when that happens. :)
by BroncosBassist on Oct 5, 2009 5:40 AM MDT reply actions 0 recs
And, by the way
The final 7 points of the game came courtesy of UCF — Brandon Marshall scored the TD, and Matt Prater the PAT. :) (I live about 15 minutes from the campus, so I notice things like this)
by BroncosBassist on Oct 5, 2009 5:41 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Another note about stats
I’m happy to see guys like Kenny Peterson near the top in tackles. That is a good sign in so many ways for an ostensibly 3-4 defense. He finished the game with 4 solo and 1 assist.
by BroncosBassist on Oct 5, 2009 5:46 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Used To Be
There was a time in pro football when a kickoff splitting the uprights DID result in 3 points.
by Endzone on Oct 5, 2009 11:07 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nice review
It’s great to be 4-0, and know the team can improve in many areas. The 1st quarter play of Orton is puzzling to me. In 2008, he had a very high QB rating. At the same time, his 4th qrt/2nd half play has been outstanding. The starting field position was horrible today. The offensive line was extremely sloppy with the penalties and sacks. Very impressed again with the defense, but they can’t give up that long pass play late in the game. I can accept the completion off of Romo’s scramble, but not the sloppy tackling. Where is the Broncos return game? That’s one area that has to improve big time.
Overall, the Broncos have exceeded my expectations for the first four games. The offense will continue to improve as they gain confidence in the new system. Orton has done very well, despite playing with the injury. His play will continue to improve. The running game has been great and I hope the injury to Buck isn’t serious. What more can you say about the defense! 26 points in four games! Special teams have to step it up. Improvement in this area will help with the field position. Coaching….Broncos have one of the best coaching staffs in the NFL.
The team has alot to be proud of!
by rocko1 on Oct 5, 2009 5:56 AM MDT reply actions 0 recs
Attribute some of the "sloppiness" to DeMarcus Ware
Harris got a couple of false starts because he was so anxious to get into pass-blocking position with Ware across the line from him.
"Surprised to see you, Captain, though pleased." — from Star Trek episode Space Seed.
by spock on Oct 5, 2009 8:17 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Great Post Bear
looking forward to your breakdown of the game after reviewing the tape. BTW who cares if a win is pretty or ugly, it’s still a win….
by bchiper on Oct 5, 2009 8:38 AM MDT reply actions 0 recs
Romo reminded me of another QB...
as he sat on the bench by himself through the 2nd half. Not looking at the photos or talking to the players / coaches, just sitting alone with a vacant look on his face. Could swear I’ve seen someone like that on the sidelines at Mile High sometime in the past?
Excellent review Bear, as usual!
by BroncoFan.mx on Oct 5, 2009 8:41 AM MDT reply actions 0 recs
just about everyone said this years Broncos would look like NE,
NOT! The Broncos are playing Steler football. The D does ther job and the O makes the playes when they are needed.
live and die blue and orange
by jerry251 on Oct 5, 2009 9:02 AM MDT reply actions 0 recs
More like last years ravens
Well to me anyway :)
by AlleyCat. on Oct 5, 2009 9:31 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Speaking of,
what happened to the Steelers? People are running up big point totals on them, and they’re playing in shoot-outs. Where did this offense come from?
Of course, it could be that the chargers defense could make a pop-warner team look like the ’99 Rams.
by BroncosBassist on Oct 5, 2009 9:56 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Chargers D
The dolts’ D is in complete disarray. Their window is closing fast. I had to chuckle when NBC was comparing the QB class of ‘04 and saying they’re all great except Phyllis doesn’t have a ring. Collinsworth tossed in the throwaway line, “Oh, he’ll get one eventually, I guarantee.” At this point that team’s best days are behind them. Phyllis is young enough to see the team through that, but they’re not going to get him a ring with this edition unless it involves a trip to K-Mart, a quarter and a compliant vending machine.
Richard Seymour is a girl.
by pubkeeper on Oct 5, 2009 11:01 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
They need to dump Norv
If SD wants a ring, they need to dump Turner and rebuild NOW, while Rivers still has a lot of youth left to give. That defense is falling apart, but they are starting to hurt a bit on offense, too. IMHO, at least.
by BroncosBassist on Oct 5, 2009 1:12 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Norv is responsible for the offense
It’s Rivera’s defense that is falling apart. I think they’re really missing Nunnely’s help patching up their DL.
I think SD’s biggest weakness is personnel and depth. AJ isn’t the genius he’s convinced the Spanos of.
by CoastalBronco on Oct 5, 2009 1:23 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Could be true
I admittedly don’t follow the chargers closely enough to be an expert, but what I was getting at (poorly) is that they need to rebuild that defense and look to upgrade some of their offensive skill positions.
by BroncosBassist on Oct 5, 2009 1:28 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
I completely agree with you on these points. I probably just have a higher opinion of Norv than most.
by CoastalBronco on Oct 5, 2009 1:35 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm with you
And to be honest, I’m not a big fan of Norv and didn’t like his hiring. Still – the injury bug and the defense are the two big issues. The offense is Norv’s baby and it’s actually playing pretty well. He’s doing a pretty god job with a sinking ship and deserves some credit
Hillis/Moreno in '09
by Emmett Smith on Oct 5, 2009 1:44 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
I remember
thinking, “They traded Marty for Norv? Sweet!”
I also think that D hasn’t been the same since Wade left. As aweful an HC as he is, he’s a great DC.
Richard Seymour is a girl.
by pubkeeper on Oct 5, 2009 1:50 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Some people
Some people make graet gaurds but can’t play tackle worth a lick. Some people are great coordinators but can’t be a HC. Problem is sometimes you never know until a person is put into that position once or twice. Now with Norv and Wade there is no excuse this is both of their third time around I believe.
... if you have a belief, you will tend to find things that support it. But if you have a prejudice, you’ll move heaven and earth to maintain it. BroncoBear
by 3nS on Oct 5, 2009 2:27 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed
Eventually, some team is going to end up with an excellent DC for a lifetime when Wade gets canned. I have big doubts about him getting HC consideration again. I’m hoping the same can be said about Nolan, though I doubt it. Someone will come calling for him again at some point.
Richard Seymour is a girl.
by pubkeeper on Oct 5, 2009 2:44 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thats because
Nolan had one HC go around while Wade had 3. I think the same is true for Turner he’s been HC at least three times and I don’t think it’ll happen again but whoever it is that hires him are going to get an excellent OC. hope its not the same team the gets Wade and Turner but if I became a coach next year those would be my first choices.
... if you have a belief, you will tend to find things that support it. But if you have a prejudice, you’ll move heaven and earth to maintain it. BroncoBear
by 3nS on Oct 5, 2009 3:12 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's a really good point
I recall when Buddy Ryan left Chicago as a DC to go to Philly and become a bad HC. I wondered at the time bhy – he obviously didn’t have the attention to detail that marks the best HCs. the Peter Principle in action, I suppose.
Hillis/Moreno in '09
by Emmett Smith on Oct 5, 2009 3:18 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Norv has a losing record as a head coach
That speaks for itself.
"Surprised to see you, Captain, though pleased." — from Star Trek episode Space Seed.
by spock on Oct 5, 2009 8:19 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
He's also tied for most playoff wins of any SD head coach
He kept a 4-8 team believing in itself enough to beat the Colts in Indy in the first round of the playoffs last year. He’s undefeated in December with the Chargers.
I might agree that he’s better as an OC than HC, but I don’t think SD’s problems should be entirely attributed to him. The control AJ exerts over the HC in SD puts much of the responsibility with the GM.
by CoastalBronco on Oct 6, 2009 5:59 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Perhaps that says more about the Dolts' storied history
than it does about Norv. He’s taken one of the most talented teams in the league and — gasp! — won playoff games. But they’ve underperformed during the regular season. I’m not sure they’d have been a 4-8 team at that point if anybody other than Turner had been coaching them. Maybe the Dolts need two head coaches, Schottenheimer for the regular season, Turner for the playoffs.
"Surprised to see you, Captain, though pleased." — from Star Trek episode Space Seed.
by spock on Oct 6, 2009 9:34 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Possible Skewing of How We View Orton
I have been wondering why in every game I am surprised by Orton’s production as his stats are posted during the game or when I look at them after the game. Yesterday was no exception. Some of you seem to have the same reaction.
I have come to believe that for me at least the problem is that I really want to see the laser pass under extreme pressure, e.g., Elway ducking under a linebacker in Seattle and throwing a bullet 50 yards to Sharpe for a TD. Players like that, and Cutler was one, have the opposite effect on me—I am always surprised the stats are not better. Elway was flat out a winner, which Cutler was not, but Elway’s stats were not fantastic until the last few years when he did become more of a “game manager.” (Am I misremembering these Elway years?) It is just not very exciting when Orton throws the ball away or puts it in a place only the receiver can catch it and the receiver does not. I think this gives me the misimpression that he is not doing well. I am going to try to correct for it, because Elway, and Cutler to some extent, have tainted how I view games. Does this describe anyone else’s experience?
by phondonkey on Oct 5, 2009 9:55 AM MDT reply actions 2 recs
Exactly, PD
Perfectly put.
Smokey, my friend, you are entering a world of pain.
by TJ Johnson on Oct 5, 2009 9:58 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not my experience, but
you do seem to be describing the experience of a lot of fans. Denver fans are spoiled on quarterback performance. Until the people who watched Elway win 2 Superbowls are gone, it might always be that way. I’m excited when a solid play happens on the offense, regardless of how it does, so I might be a bit of an odd duck.
By the way, Elway put up over 3000 yards every year after his rookie season, except for 3 times. He didn’t play the entire year in any of those three seasons (injury). He had stats, but the biggest part of his game was his ability to extend the play and the game and get wins. He will always be remembered as one of the most clutch players in history with more come from behind wins than anyone.
by BroncosBassist on Oct 5, 2009 10:02 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thanks for the stats on Elway
I had a gut feeling that I was not remembering those correctly, so thanks for correcting that. Elway did get “style points” though, which I think has spoiled a generation as you point out. I am spoiled, that it certain.
by phondonkey on Oct 5, 2009 10:07 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Style Points
Maybe that is the reason we look at Orton and are dissatisfied. The gun slingers, the ones who scramble out of the pocket, the ones who seem to “carry the team on their backs in the 4th quarter”, etc. get all the praise. Why? Because every once in a while they connect on amazing plays while our hearts are pounding in anticipation.
Orton doesn’t get the heart racing….but he wins games.
by Endzone on Oct 5, 2009 11:12 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
And, often in the 4th quarter
Look at his stats in the 4th this year. for example. I’ve got to admit – I’m confused as to where some of these ‘facts’ about Kyle have come from.
Hillis/Moreno in '09
by Emmett Smith on Oct 5, 2009 11:58 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
yes
Elway’s escapability, and desire to win were his hallmarks and the secret to his success. The defenses that he left dejected on the sidelines after he cameback to beat them were ALL saying the same thing:
“We ALMOST got him…”
Precision in thought, concision in style, decision in life.
by Jeremy Bolander on Oct 5, 2009 7:59 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Let's list our concerns
Let’s have a straw poll. Here’s what worries me about the Broncos for the rest of the year:
1) The return teams. The improved coverage teams are great, but the offense starts so many drives deep in its own territory. That will catch up to them.
2) Red Zone Play. Low productivity cuts the margin for error.
3) Regression to the mean on Orton’s interceptions. The guy protects the ball, but a zero-int season is obviously impossible. Against better teams (Cowboys, Bengals), even one interception would likelyl have swung the game.
4) Interior OL play. Wiegmann and Hamilton are getting in trouble a lot.
5) Penalties. Duh.
6) Injuries to veterans. The advanced age of the secondary makes injuries statistically probable. Those would be big losses.
Anything else? I’m as excited about the team as anybody (looking back, I drank the Kool-Aid earlier and more aggressively than just about anybody else). But these are issues. I personally think that red-zone play and penalties will improve as the team gets used to the new system. Not sure I see any hope on kick returns.
by Chibronx on Oct 5, 2009 10:50 AM MDT reply actions 0 recs
Chibronx
I looked at every single play from Wiegmann in the Oakland game and I scored him a 9.5 out of 10. There is a recent post on this. He played a virtual perfect game. I haven’t looked at the Cowboy tape, so I suspect you are referring to this. But just in case you were wondering, Wiegmann played insane the previous week.
Casey may very well have been in trouble against the Cowboys, but not against the Raiders.
Smokey, my friend, you are entering a world of pain.
by TJ Johnson on Oct 5, 2009 4:08 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Interesting thing I had heard about Orton
I was watching an east coast version of this telecast, and I heard one of the commentators say something about Orton’s throwing hand during the open shots of the game. They said that the past 3 weeks, in addition to wearing a glove, Orton was also playing with some sort of plastic strip inserted into the glove (presumably to prevent the knuckle getting too much out of alignment and thus dislocated again). The commentator also noted that Orton did not have the plastic thingamajiggy yesterday.
Could this have been the reason that Orton was so off target in the first few throws. Could any of the people who know better answer this?
god created earth in 7 days....on the 7th day, he took a break and created elway
by Bronkos on Oct 5, 2009 10:53 AM MDT reply actions 0 recs
Heard that too
I’m willing to accept that until it’s proven wrong. McD prizes accuracy in his QB and he had to see that in Orton at some point.
Richard Seymour is a girl.
by pubkeeper on Oct 5, 2009 11:04 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'd like to add a couple of points on Elway
Elway’s career QB rating was just under 80 – 79.9. His lifetime sack percentage was 6.6 – very high – and his lifetime a/ypa was only 6.5. Right now, Orton’s numbers are better than that. Is he better than Elway? Bite your tongue, child. But I bring this up to make a point:
We see Elway through the mists of the past. I watched his whole career. I loved the player. He frustrated the heck out of me many, many games. He played poorly. He played magnificently. He would make a vast number of purely boneheaded plays during a game, but you know that in the 4th quarter, you always had a chance. Orton is playing very well in the second half and all I’m reading is how he didn’t start well. Well, of course, but so what? He had great stats in the second half and brought us back from that famed and supposedly fatal “two scores down”. Why aren’t we celebrating the man?
Hillis/Moreno in '09
by Emmett Smith on Oct 5, 2009 10:54 AM MDT reply actions 1 recs
Good post BB...
…Tell you what, though…It’s starting to look like the DP blogs around here, and I don’t like it. Good GOD, if you are a DENVER BRONCO fan…act like one.
No team is PERFECT or unbeatable, but the ‘09-’10 Broncos are a kick-a s s team. Well coached, well-rounded on offense, defense, kicking, and (only real weakness) special teams.
Lets get happy, people. We don’t have to be afraid to say good things about our team anymore…lest we be proven wrong or dissapointed.
THE DENVER BRONCOS ARE WINNERS, AND WILL CONTINUE TO BE.
Vinny Gambino: "Ms. Devito, Can you tell the court what this is a picture of?"
Ms. Devito: "You know what it's of"
by Bronco_Fan_Tom on Oct 5, 2009 11:22 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
OMG...
I couldn’t agree more. I used to read every last word on this site daily, and frequently engage in some conversations. Now I rarely make it past the first couple of comments after reading the posts. I wish I could turn back the clock to before we were invaded by the DP posters. The hate and discontent that floats around here is hard put up with.
Imagine how these clowns will act when we lose a game. (and we will lose a few) I think I’ll just stay away from here for a few days after a loss.
I never miss a post by Doc though, and as always my friend, nice job and rec’d.
Taylor Mays in '10
by donbok1 on Oct 5, 2009 4:07 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thanks donbok
Darn it. I really miss you and some of the other older posters. That’s really a shame. There are still a lot of great posters, you know? Don’t let a few issues weaken the site, my friend.
Of course, I’m being totally selfish. I just miss your reasoned thoughts.
Hillis/Moreno in '09
by Emmett Smith on Oct 5, 2009 4:37 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
yep...hang tough Bok....your MHR as much as anyones......
Those that cant coach, compete!
Failing to plan is planning to fail.
All I want is 53 Rod Smiths. Is that asking too much????
"Peyton Hillis didn’t rip the sleeves off his jersey, they flew off out of fear."
Calijoefornia.
by boydy2669 on Oct 6, 2009 9:00 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
This is more what I remember of Elway
It is the magnificent plays that I remember, especially because so many took place during dramatic 4th quarter comebacks. Not only does memory tend to be very selective, but we also tend to view the present through the lens of our expectations, a combination of traits that conspire to leave me with a misimpression or Orton.
by phondonkey on Oct 5, 2009 11:33 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
I remember
People wanting Kubiak to replace Elway early in his career. QB’s are like presidents some will love them some will hate them no matter who they are.
... if you have a belief, you will tend to find things that support it. But if you have a prejudice, you’ll move heaven and earth to maintain it. BroncoBear
by 3nS on Oct 5, 2009 12:24 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
If you want an example, see the 55-10 superbowl blowout. That was so hard to watch.
by BroncosBassist on Oct 5, 2009 1:15 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
What I'm most impressed with.
The Broncos turned the ball over three times this year. Each time it was in or near the other teams red zone. Total points given up on those turnovers 3.
... if you have a belief, you will tend to find things that support it. But if you have a prejudice, you’ll move heaven and earth to maintain it. BroncoBear
by 3nS on Oct 5, 2009 12:26 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
That’s a huge stat. I noticed it earlier today. To make it more interesting, the 2 offensive fumbles have netted 0 points for the opposing team. Wow, this defense means business.
by BroncosBassist on Oct 5, 2009 1:16 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
McKinley
Just a minor note – I was happy to see McKinley with a little bit of playing time. He did not disappoint with his kick return.
by Endzone on Oct 5, 2009 12:40 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs

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