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Shallow Thoughts & Nearsighted Observations

Denver Broncos wide receiver Brandon Marshall (15) catches a pass against Dallas Cowboys cornerback Terence Newman (41) for the game-winning touchdown during the fourth quarter of an NFL football game Sunday, Oct. 4, 2009, in Denver.  (AP Photo/ Jack Dempsey )

More photos » by Jack Dempsey - AP

about 1 month ago: Denver Broncos wide receiver Brandon Marshall (15) catches a pass against Dallas Cowboys cornerback Terence Newman (41) for the game-winning touchdown during the fourth quarter of an NFL football game Sunday, Oct. 4, 2009, in Denver. (AP Photo/ Jack Dempsey )

Happy Tuesday, friends.  Welcome to what will probably be a somewhat shorter-than-usual version of ST&NO.  The first week of every month, accountants get to close the books for the recently ended prior month.  As I start writing this opening section, it is 7:17 PM on Monday night, so my day job has unfortunately gotten in the way of my primary goal on a Monday, which is to write this column.  (A today-specific secondary goal is to correctly punctuate all text in parentheses, because I am all about continuous performance improvement).  I'll be switching back and forth between this and that, probably for the next 5 hours or so.  So, the moral of the story is that there's no time to waste.  Ready.... BEGIN!!!!

1.  I can't remember the last time I felt so good about a Broncos team and its total team performance over a stretch of games, as I do now.  I don't think I ever did in 2005, and I know I haven't since then.  There's a guy who I was in the Navy with, and knew a little bit, (we mess-cranked together, for anybody who knows what that means).  Now, we're Facebook friends.  Well, he's from Oakland, and he seems to think that each of these 4 Broncos wins has been 100% luck.  Even the Raiders, because, he says they are in a rebuilding year (decade).

What makes me feel so good is knowing that the 4-0 start has absolutely nothing to do with luck, not even the Brandon Stokley miracle play against Cincinnati.  That play, in and of itself, was lucky, but being in the position to have a break win you a game was not luck.  (I actually feel the same way about the Hochuli Game, incidentally.  The Broncos still had to score on 4th down, and win on a 2-point conversion.  The blown Hochuli call was not a 39-point play, and if San Diego had won on a fluke play like that, the luck just would have gone in the preconceived-notion-confirming direction).  But I digress.

The Broncos are playing well in all phases of the football game, and it's translating into victories, just like they tell you it will in Pop Warner.  The formula they are following is time-honored and uncomplicated.  Block, tackle, don't throw into coverage, run north and south, catch the ball, and hold onto it when you get it.  I'm a simple man with simple tastes, like Floyd Gondolli in Boogie Nights.  (Well, not just like him, but you understand what I am getting at). 

Star-divide

I am almost troubled by how good I feel.  An even bigger worry is how much confidence I have in Josh McDaniels.  This is going to sound blasphemous, but I have more confidence in him than I think I ever did in Mike Shanahan.  McDaniels put up with all of that criticism and stuck to his program.  I have total confidence that he has a plan and that this team will be a consistent winner because of that plan.  I always thought the Broncos would be good because Shanahan was such a great offensive coach, but it's been a long time since I felt there was a great, holistic, 1-53, all-phases unified team concept in place with him.  There was almost an arrogance that his brilliance on offense would be enough to overcome some other areas which got less focus.

Winners win, and we have one as our coach.  Shanahan was a winner too - don't get me wrong, but I like the total approach I am seeing from the "kid from Ohio," as Gil Whiteley derisively called him.  (I'd never heard of Gil until Monday, but it's quite apparent that I wasn't missing much).  Nobody wins a championship after only 4 games, but you sure can get some naysayers in your own fan base to understand your plan.  You can definitely get your players to buy in, even the skeptical ones, like some Broncos have admitted to being.  And you can absolutely make some myopic pundits shut up and/or take a seat on the bandwagon.  Well done. 

 

2.  I absolutely loved this comment from Josh McDaniels:

"What other people thought about our team, what other people who are less educated than the ones inside the building thought about our team doesn't really provide us any reason to feel anything.  It doesn't really matter.  We know we've won four games and four games will never qualify us for the playoffs, four games will never win our division, and four games won't really get us much of anything, so, we're happy to be four and 0, but we're certainly far from satisfied and we've got a lot of improvements to make.  We can play better, we can coach better, and that's what we are after."

According to JeffG, it particularly had the aforementioned Whiteley up in arms, which sounds like a good thing to me, judging from his "writing."  We are all less educated than the people in the building, even those of us who are a lot more educated than others.  The Broncos' team personnel know what they are trying to do, and we're all trying to understand what they are trying to do.  It was a subtle way of sticking it to the information leeches, who enjoyed greater access in the past and rewarded Shanahan and others with mostly-favorable coverage.  McDaniels, like Bill Belichick, realizes that if you win, it doesn't matter who likes you personally.  I'll tell you one thing:  It's really good to be in the sector of the Broncos media which doesn't particularly need access.  Nothing has changed for us, and business is booming.

3.  Information From My Eyes, Cowboys at Broncos:

a.  Due to the wonders of HDTV, I know that Terence Newman is a liar.  He claimed that Brandon Marshall grabbed his jersey to get open.  That's a bunch of BS.  Newman got a weak jam on Marshall in the 5-yard zone, and Marshall hit Newman's outside (left) shoulder with his open, outside (right) hand in getting off the jam.  Marshall then got about 2 yards of separation.  Newman recovered pretty well, but by the time he caught up, Marshall's hands were up over his head, and he was jumping to catch the pass.  No jersey-grabbing whatsoever on that play.  You got beat, just admit you got beat.

b.  David Bruton is getting so close to blocking a punt - I'm telling you, he's going to get one very soon and change the complexion of a game.

c.  The pass interference penalty in the second half on Andre' Goodman was not even close to being legitimate.  It was a textbook play on the ball.

d.  Jack Williams had a great game filling in for Alphonso Smith as the nickelback.  His best play was his sure tackle on Patrick Crayton at the 2 after the Dallas First and Goal, inside of a minute to go.  Tony Romo spiked the ball on Second down, and then went after Champ Bailey twice in a row after that.  JMFW had a nice breakup on 3rd and 3 earlier in the same drive, right before Romo hit Sam Hurd on that crazy broken play.

e.  Speaking of Champ Bailey, he is being asked to do some different things scheme-wise than he has in recent years, but he definitely has not lost a step.  The trouble is, Goodman is really tough to beat on the other side too, so where do you really want to go?  Teams have to be really reluctant to challenge the outside, and then, that puts you in the business of contending with Brian Dawkins, Renaldo Hill, and others inside, and running the distinct risk of getting your receivers blown up.  Ask Roy Williams about that.

f.  I really like the way that Wesley Woodyard is being used, and how he is playing.  He has mostly been on the field in long-yardage situations, and he's done really well in coverage.  On Sunday, he got a free run at Tony Romo on a delayed blitz, and knocked the bejesus out of him, right as he threw the ball wildly incomplete, in going 3 and out.

g.  Brett Kern and Matt Prater have been tremendously valuable to the Broncos in winning the field position battle this season.  Even when Kern shanks a punt, like his first one on Sunday, he is getting some nice rolls. 

h.  Kyle Orton played pretty well, once again.  His accuracy could have been better in a few spots, particularly that wide-open throw to Jabar Gaffney against zero coverage, but he did  a very nice job of taking care of business, and not making mistakes, once again.  I could get really used to this. 

4.  Information From My Eyes. Other Games:

a.  The Titans are a mess, and have to be getting close to writing off this season and looking at Vince Young again.  The obvious speculation for a reason they're 0-4 would be that they greatly miss Albert Haynesworth, but I don't think that's the case.  Their defensive line is the strength of their team, and they're getting excellent play from Jason Jones and Tony Brown.   Rather, their back 7 has failed them this season - especially Nick Harper and Chris Hope in the secondary, and their LBs other than Keith BulluckCortland Finnegan and Michael Griffin have under-performed their star reputations, too (although Finnegan did miss the debacle against Jacksonville).

b.  I am Wes Welker's biggest non-fan.  I've always thought that he's just a guy playing a well-designed, high-volume role.  He kind of reminds me of old friend Mike Anderson in that way.  Julian Edelman did just fine in the same role the last two weeks, and the only thing that was particularly lost was Welker's above-average blocking ability.  If I were Bill Belichick, I would give some serious thought to selling high on Welker next offseason, like he recently did with Richard Seymour.

c.  On Sunday, the quintessential Derek Anderson was on display.  Yes, he challenges defenses down the field more than Brady Quinn does, but he also tends to throw the ball to the other team a lot and take a bunch of sacks.  Whereas I think Quinn can be a winning player with good talent around him, I think Anderson will always do too many losing things to ever really be that.

d.  Brian Cushing continues to be a very good player for the Texans, amid a morass of below-averageness and mismatched skill-sets on defense.  In a few weeks, maybe Week 8 or so, we'll review the list of guys I went on record as liking prior to the Draft, and let's just say for now that it's looking really good for my credibility as a talent evaluator.

e.  A guy who I didn't like that much, who has done very well so far, is Rey Maualuga for the Bengals.  He's playing strongside LB in the 4-3, which seems to be a great position for him.  I'm impressed with his play, and the way he's being used.  My qualms with him were his reputation for being immature and his lack of range in pass coverage, and as a SLB, he has been off the field in sub packages. 

f.  The Cleveland Browns' biggest problem has been a lack of anybody for defenses to be scared of, beyond Braylon Edwards.  For that reason, the emergence of Mohammed Massaquoi has a chance to save their season, and help them win 4-5 games, if it continues.  There has to be somebody who can beat single coverage, and Josh Cribbs lacks the technique as a WR to do so.  I wasn't that big a Massaquoi fan in his Georgia days, but he showed me something Sunday.

g.  I actually watched a lot of the Browns-Bengals game, and felt like Jerome Harrison looked really lousy.  Imagine my surprise to read the box score and see he carried 29 times for 121 yards in the game.  He did lose a fumble, which I saw live.  I was really sure that he played badly, but he avoids the harsh criticism I had for him, by performing better when I was on other channels.

h.  Carson Palmer looked pretty bad for most of the game on Sunday, but talked Marvin Lewis into going for it on 4th down in overtime, rather than playing for a tie - and then running faster than I thought he possibly could to pick it up, leading to the Bengals' winning field goal.  It was like in baseball, when a star pitcher wins without his best stuff.

i.  The Bengals' special teams performance was abysmal, with bad kick and punt coverage, a fumble by (ST&NO favorite) Andre Caldwell returning a kickoff, and the blocked extra point on what should have been the game-winning TD.  Add to that that the eventual winning field goal was only good by inches, and the Bengals deserved to lose, just based on bad play in the kicking game.

j.  I've been thinking this all season, and I am picking a pretty unlikely time to say it, maybe on purpose.  Matt Forte is a completely average running back, who fits in really well with all of the widespread averageness on the offensive side of the ball for Chicago.  He's not really quick or fast, and he runs really upright.  I know he misses all the checkdown throws he got from Kyle Orton, and I have to wonder how often Kyle checked into a better running play than what was called in the huddle for him.

k.  The NBC crew was talking about how great the Steelers offensive line has suddenly started playing, but the correct observation would be that the Chargers are suddenly really vulnerable on their defensive line, with the exception of Luis Castillo.  Even he had his bad moments Sunday night. 

l.  I'm not the biggest Ike Taylor fan in the world, but he had a nice game on Sunday night, particularly on a couple of deep balls that Philip Rivers normally makes his living completing.  On the other side, Antonio Cromartie had a pretty tough night.  Taylor isn't that talented but has good technique.  Cromartie is extremely talented, but is sloppy and lazy with his technique a lot of times.

m.  If I were a Detroit Lions fan (like my friend Chris Dillon), I would feel pretty good about the direction my Lions were going in.  With Matthew Stafford, Kevin Smith, Calvin Johnson, and Brandon Pettigrew, they have the kind of talent at those positions that could someday rival the Aikman-Smith-Irvin-Novacek group the Cowboys had in the 90s.  Of course, those Cowboys had a lot of talent on defense, and the offensive line too, and the Lions don't yet.  With Jim Schwartz as their head coach, I expect them to target building up both lines, and really take a leap next season.

n.  Jay Cutler looked good on Sunday.  His only interception was on a hail-mary play prior to halftime.  (I saw the play live, but it must have been overturned.  Good catch, tfrabotta)

o.  I only caught a little of the yawner between Indianapolis and Seattle, but Robert Mathis got two of his three sacks while I was watching.  He's really dangerous one-on-one for most RTs in the NFL.  Getting down a couple scores is bad, bad news against the Colts, because then Mathis and Dwight Freeney can just come around the corner after your QB, and the back 7 can set up in cover 2.   The time-honored way to beat them is to keep the score close and exploit their edges with your running game.

p.  If JaMarcus Russell never gets his act together, I'll tell you who should be the next Raiders QB.  Jason Campbell needs to play in a vertical passing scheme, and he can be very effective in one.  Soon-to-be-former Redskins coach Jim Zorn is married to his West Coast principles and puts his QB in a position to consistently fail, by asking him to be something he's not.  Campbell will almost certainly be cut loose after this season, and if I wanted to be a vertical team, I know I could do a lot worse in a buy-low situation.

q.  Aaron Rodgers is a great player, but he took a hellacious beating from the Vikings on Monday night.  Stop me if you've heard this one before, but the Packers offensive line is terrible.  I'll also disagree with Jon Gruden's assessment that Chad Clifton is "excellent."  He is no such thing, but I'll grant that he's better than the alternatives, Daryn Colledge and T.J. Lang .

r.  I'm way over Brett Favre, like roughly 100% of MHR community members, but he did look excellent Monday night.

s.  I don't really like the way the Packers are using Charles Woodson.  They mostly have him covering inside players, with Tramon Williams outside.  I think it somewhat wastes Woodson's still-excellent coverage skills, to use him on mostly lesser players.

5.  Between The Lines will run separately as a FanPost Tuesday night, due to the aforementioned day-job related time constraints.

6.  The key defensive sequence in the Broncos-Cowboys game was one which went unnoticed, (or at least unmentioned) by the football cognoscenti.  (HAHA cognoscenti.... I crack myself up.)  Anyway, after the Broncos tied the game with a Matt Prater field goal, the Cowboys got the ball back with 5:58 to play.  This is a dangerous spot, because a (Bill Williamson Memorial) decent scoring drive can easily kill that whole clock.

 

1st and 10 at DAL 20
T.Romo pass short left to T.Choice pushed ob at DAL 26 for 6 yards (A.Davis).
2nd and 4 at DAL 26 T.Choice up the middle to DAL 32 for 6 yards (K.Peterson).
1st and 10 at DAL 32

T.Romo pass short middle to R.Williams to DAL 47 for 15 yards (C.Bailey).

 

Things are suddenly looking bad, and I have to tell you, it's reminding me of every Broncos team since 1999.  They've often been unable to come up with a key defensive play.

1st and 10 at DAL 47 T.Choice left end to DAL 44 for -3 yards (M.Haggan).

This is the key defensive play.  The play was a naked flip with Romo under center.  Ryan McBean and Mario Haggan each got a great read, and resulting penetration, and McBean's presence inside forced Choice to run right into Haggan.  2nd and 13 from midfield.

2nd and 13 at DAL 44 (Shotgun) T.Romo sacked at DAL 40 for -4 yards (V.Holliday).

Another key defensive play, obviously.  Holliday beats Flozell "The Turnstile" Adams, Adams' third sack allowed of the game, and sets up a really difficult 3rd and 17.  There was good front-side pressure from Le Kevin Smith and Robert Ayers as well.

3rd and 17 at DAL 40 (Shotgun) T.Romo pass incomplete deep middle to M.Austin.

Austin was well covered by Brian Dawkins in a cover-3 zone concept, but Romo could have hit him with a good throw.  Smith had pressure again.

After Mat McBriar punted, came this sequence:

1st and 10 at DEN 27
(Shotgun) K.Orton pass short right to B.Marshall to DEN 35 for 8 yards (T.Newman).
2nd and 2 at DEN 35 (Shotgun) K.Moreno up the middle to DEN 49 for 14 yards (K.Hamlin).
1st and 10 at DEN 49 (Shotgun) K.Orton pass deep right to B.Marshall for 51 yards, TOUCHDOWN.

That defensive sequence was where this game really turned, friends.

7.  Retired for John Elway.

8.  Funny stuff from SI.com's Andrew Perloff here.  He calls his feature Against The Grain, which tells you he's probably reaching for contrarian stuff.  I love this bit here, his equivalent to item 1, if he were writing ST&NO.

1. Congrats to the Broncos for the 4-0 start. And condolences in advance to Denver fans for your team's 4-4 record at the midway point (Their next games are New England, at San Diego, at Baltimore and Pittsburgh). A home win over the Cowboys is supposed to be the crowning win that convinces us all they're for real?

This was the conventional wisdom last week, and now, by being a week late to the party, and as the John Clayton's just left, this is how Perloff brandishes his contrarian-ness?  He's still not alone on the Broncos Are Pretenders Train, of course.  Adam Schein and Jamie Dukes need somebody to chat with.

Another "pearl" from the same article, focusing on my the Browns:

8. The Browns probably chose Brady Quinn to start this season because he was a first-round pick, even though Derek Anderson looks like a much better quarterback. Now they have to turn their eyes toward another position. Would Braylon Edwards be on the field if he wasn't a high first-round pick?

Of course Edwards would be on the field.  He's the Browns' best offensive player, even a little better than Joe Thomas.  He has just faced constant double coverage this season, because defenses aren't worried about anybody else.  He drops a few passes, but he's their only playmaker on offense.  Who should be playing ahead of him?  Mike Furrey?  Josh Cribbs?  Brian Robiskie?  Maybe they ought to dust off Webster Slaughter.

9.  <Alec Baldwin voice from Glengarry Glen Ross> And to answer your question, pal, I'da thunk it.  I'm on record with it, in fact.  John Bena got beat up for my 11-5 preseason prediction, but it's looking pretty good at this point.

That's all I have time to write this time, friends.  Remember to look for Between The Lines on Tuesday night (as a FanPost,) and Lighting Up The Scoreboard on Saturday.  Have a great week, and Go Broncos!

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Excellent writeup once again

One of the two columns I look forward to, on Tuesday mornings. The other being TMQ by Gregg Easterbrook. Similar styles w.r.t. being thoroughly analytical as opposed to unnecessarily opinionated a’la the rest of the MSM.
Thank you very much & keep writing.

Pain heals. Chicks dig scars. Glory... lasts forever.

by desibroncofan on Oct 6, 2009 6:49 AM MDT reply actions   0 recs

I thought I was the only one that lived for Tuesdays.STNO and TMQ are the two best blogs on the NFL.

by OrangeCrush4082 on Oct 6, 2009 9:26 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Ditto that.

I woke up this morning and thought “ST&NO this morning!” Cool.

Thanks again Ted.

by NedBronco on Oct 6, 2009 10:44 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Thank you for your time.

I appreciate the insight your write-up offers and I agree with you over 90% of the time. However, let me give you a small piece of humble pie when it comes to your “talent evaluation.” You, like me, have made some errors when it comes to evaluating talent.

1. You said Donald Brown is a better running back than Knowshon Moreno. Do you still feel that way?
2. You said Rey Maualuga is a “player you can live without.” Now you think he is not?
3. You said Andy Levitre, after his first preseason game, as a rookie, looked like he could not play in the NFL. I have watched him since and, for a rookie 2nd rounder, is not playing poorly at all.
4. How could you possibly favor Quinn over Anderson? For the first three games, outside of Jamarcus Russell, Quinn was the worst QB in the NFL. Delhomme with a close 2nd. Anderson is actually able to move the ball down the field, unlike Quinn.
5. Braylon Edwards has possibly the worst hands of any starting WR in the NFL. I can’t tell you how many times DA has thrown the ball at his chest only to see him drop it. He has the prototype speed, body, routes, etc. but can’t catch the ball!

Nothing personal at all here. I am an Oregon State follower, not fan, and pay close attention to the Beavers Alumni as they go the NFL. Forgive my butchering of his name but I WOULD rather have Mohammed Massoqui (sp?) or Robiskie than Edwards.

by swg777 on Oct 6, 2009 7:10 AM MDT reply actions   0 recs

Interesting questions

1. I have come to like Moreno a lot more than I used to, but I still think Brown is excellent. Brown has proven to be the best back in Indianapolis, which you can see from the fact that he’s in the game at crunch time. He and Moreno are both good backs.
2. I am fine living without Maualuga, but as I said, he’s doing better than I thought.
3. I still don’t care for Levitre, and I think he struggles to effectively anchor in pass protection. I haven’t seen a great deal of him lately, but I haven’t seen anything to make me change my opinion of him, as expressed. I’ll try to look at him next week, to re-evaluate him.
4. Quinn gets the ball out on time, and Anderson doesn’t. It’s a stylistic preference.
5. Edwards is going to get out Cleveland soon, and make some team very happy. Massaquoi looked very good on Sunday, but Robiskie still isn’t active on gamedays. He was thought to be really NFL-ready, but he has disappointed.

"I am not one of those who think that coming in second or third is winning." -- Robert F. Kennedy

by Ted Bartlett on Oct 6, 2009 7:39 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

That's b/c Robiskie is from Ohio State.

But that’s just an Illini fan speaking… :)

"3rd and 6, Elway shotgun... Elway, scrambling, looking, running-- DIVING!!!-- inside the 5 yard line for a first down! Is he only 37?! How important is this football game? How bad does John Elway want to win this football game? Where you see the quarterbacks go down: Not Elway!"

by Sharpe as a Tack on Oct 6, 2009 1:18 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

He's out already actually

NYJ traded Chansi Stuckey, Jason Trusnik and an undisclosed draft pick.

Exactly what the Jets need, IMO.

by poorboywilly on Oct 7, 2009 12:09 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Agreed

Braylon Edwards is teetering on personality-breakdown-fall-out-of-league status. I don’t know how anyone could honestly say he’s more important to that offense than Joe Thomas.

by Remember Keith Kartz! on Oct 6, 2009 7:42 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

GO DUCKS!

and go broncos, of course!

by laser rocket arm on Oct 6, 2009 10:05 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Excellent Stuff Ted!

Before I became a stay at home dad, I was an accountant. I feel your month-end closing pain.

I really think the Charger defense might be as bad at the 2007 Broncos D (not yet at the 2008 level or the Detroit 2008 level). We should run for 200+ on them, considering how bad Pittsburgh’s run offense had looked up until Sunday Night.

I really thought DJ Williams would be an odd man out in our new scheme, but he’s doing very well. Roy Williams said that was the hardest hit he’d ever taken. DJ put his should pad right into his gut.

First weekend with the HDTV and DirecTV this weekend. I absolutely love the RedZone channel for when the Broncos aren’t playing.

Owning the Patriots since September 9, 1960

by Darin H on Oct 6, 2009 7:17 AM MDT reply actions   0 recs

Cool, Darin

I’m a stay-at-home Dad too.

Agree with your take on the chargers D, Orton could take the day off on them, except I’m sure he’ll want to pad his stats against their pass D….. :)

Richard Seymour is a girl.

by pubkeeper on Oct 6, 2009 9:47 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Heck......

He’s already at a 117 passer rating, why wouldn’t he want to up that average? besides, he’ll need the stat padding after NE no matter how well we play against them. It won’t be an easy win.

"I have not failed. I've just found 10,000 ways that won't work."
- Thomas Alva Edison

"Success is not a place at which one arrives, but rather... the spirit with which one undertakes and continues the journey."
- Alex Noble

by DenBronx on Oct 6, 2009 11:13 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Great read

As a fellow accountant I enjoyed this break from my quarter end closing. Thanks again.

by Beave35 on Oct 6, 2009 7:27 AM MDT reply actions   0 recs

Great Post!

Thanks for taking the time.

What I was thinking last night as I watched the Packers defense is what was floated around in the offseason about picking up Dom Capers. I’m glad we don’t. There defense looked poor. The pass rush was non-existent.

This might not be the spot for it, but to renew the Orton debate (who I DO love, by the way, for the things he does bring to the table), watching the old man Favre’s accuracy made me wish for more accuracy out of Orton. We’ll see how it is with a few more weeks under his belt though. Great point about the Forte thing. I never considered that his success may have been linked to Orton.

by NDbronco on Oct 6, 2009 7:30 AM MDT reply actions   0 recs

as stated by others

I think the glove is part of the accuracy problem. Until I see other wise that’s my opinion FWF.

by papasteven on Oct 6, 2009 7:33 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Agreed.

Everything is less precise with gloves on. No matter how thin or light the material is, it’s still not the same as when you can feel it with your fingers. That’s true in sports, work, whatever.

At this point in the season, all the Rockies' numbers are magic.
"If you do it right 51 percent of the time, you will end up a hero." - Alfred P. Sloan

by Duncan1800 on Oct 6, 2009 8:07 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

I honestly don't understand how you can think that.

Until you see otherwise? Did you see Orton in the pre-season, before the glove?

by creamy on Oct 6, 2009 8:40 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Dont start on this again Creamy....its old man!

Those that cant coach, compete!
Failing to plan is planning to fail.
All I want is 53 Rod Smiths. Is that asking too much????
"Peyton Hillis didn’t rip the sleeves off his jersey, they flew off out of fear."
Calijoefornia.

by boydy2669 on Oct 6, 2009 8:42 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Man.

I hate me some 117.5 QB rating. And 4-0? Hate that, too.

by JeffG on Oct 6, 2009 8:45 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

+100

Yeah…man ORTON SUCKS! (gives PNB a high-five)

"Precipitation, which side are you on?
Are you on the rise? Are you falling down?
Let me know, Come on let's go, yeah
Got some if you need it!" -EV

by sadaraine on Oct 6, 2009 8:54 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Forgive creamy

He still doesn’t know the difference between real season and PRESEASON, and probably never will.

by azbroncomaniac on Oct 6, 2009 10:57 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

dude?

We are 4-0 and he has NO iNTERCEPTIONS and 2 fourth qtr comebacks with 2 game winning TD’s. I know they shouldn’t count cause we are the Broncos and nothing we did is earned, right?

Its all luck. DJ’s hit on Roy Williams was luck. Moreno running hard n the 4th qtr is luck. Bailey knocking down passes on 3rd and 4th down in the end zone is luck. The defense holding the Cowboys scoreless after Dawkins pep talk is luck. Holding the Cowboys to 74 yards rushing when they were averaging 190+ is luck. Jason Witten was in witness protection all game that was luck too.

We are the worst 4-0 team in history, we should all be ashamed for enjoying this. It was much better when our FRANCHISE QB led is into to SD to lose in a national embarrassment last year.

The reason we have gotten no respect is cause of last year, not what we have done this year. You can’t disrespect 4-0 and the leagues #1 defense in points with out some sort of warped perspective.

I would hope you would support who we are. Not, who we are not. Coach Norman Dale "Hoosiers"

by dmitchell624 on Oct 6, 2009 9:15 AM MDT up reply actions   2 recs

I firmly believe "you" (or a team, for that matter) *make* your own luck.

You put yourself in position to benefit from “luck”.

I love this team and agree with TB 100% regarding Coach “Kid” vs Coach Shanahan. Thank you Coach Shanny for the 2 SB wins, but I love the direction the team and the organ-I-zation (to revert to my hockey roots :) ) have embarked upon.

Blues. Cardinals. Broncos. Rockies (when not playing St. Louis!).
Drinkin' the orange kool-aid since the day McDaniels was hired.
Go DU hockey! Go Mammoth!

by HockeyHippie on Oct 6, 2009 11:29 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

I agree

I’m glad that we didn’t get Capers this summer. They can’t get a pass rush and Kampman looks lost in pass coverage. The solution to these two problems is not rocket science. You can’t be so married to the system that you do that.

by Fan in Exile on Oct 6, 2009 7:58 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Preseason

I love how preseason has completely and utterly no bearing on the regular season at all. I remember in the preseason, I said “man, I wish we had gotten Capers”… this was when the Packers D had generated something rediculous like 12 TO’s in 9 quarters of play and ours had created zero. The Packers D had also shut down 1st teams in almost every game and ours was shakey at best. Now look at their D and ours…

I love it!!!

/me eats crow.

lol…

by tunga77 on Oct 6, 2009 10:00 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Orton

When you were talking about Forte you made me think of a nonstatistical ability that orton has that might be what causes this less than spectacular player to have a spectacular winning percentage. he audibles to the right plays. His teams has always had excellent running games. Could that partly be do to his audibling into the right play? Then a good running game open up certain passing plays etc. etc. etc.

Whoever it was that defended Moreno on the pass play can get himself in the right possition to make the play but can’t play the pass worth squat. Denver started exposing this and had several other completions against this guy. Look for other teams to take advantage of this guy.

... if you have a belief, you will tend to find things that support it. But if you have a prejudice, you’ll move heaven and earth to maintain it. BroncoBear

by 3nS on Oct 6, 2009 9:51 AM MDT up reply actions   1 recs

That was exactly what I meant

"I am not one of those who think that coming in second or third is winning." -- Robert F. Kennedy

by Ted Bartlett on Oct 6, 2009 11:21 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Anthony Spencer

The pundits were writing this off entirely with a scripted line like, “Wow, that just went right through his hands. That should have been a pick 6, but instead it’s six for the Broncos. They must be thanking the football gods for that one!”

Not that they were entirely wrong, but I certainly don’t think they were right on.

"3rd and 6, Elway shotgun... Elway, scrambling, looking, running-- DIVING!!!-- inside the 5 yard line for a first down! Is he only 37?! How important is this football game? How bad does John Elway want to win this football game? Where you see the quarterbacks go down: Not Elway!"

by Sharpe as a Tack on Oct 6, 2009 1:22 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yes, and as others have pointed out

It is, like many things, a matter of spin. If cutler had made that same throw, you’d hear all about the laser rocket arm that blasted the frozen rope past the defender in perfect position.

But it was Orton, so it’s luck, good fortune, and the “Football Gods”.

Guess it just depends on how one chooses to view it, from whatever side of the fence you happen to be standing on.

by AllBroncsallday on Oct 6, 2009 2:42 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Great point

If its Cutler its great arm strength…if its Orton it is total luck

I would hope you would support who we are. Not, who we are not. Coach Norman Dale "Hoosiers"

by dmitchell624 on Oct 6, 2009 6:30 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Packers comment

On the offensive side, was anyone else as shocked as I that they offered that poor shlub, Colledge, absolutely NO HELP against Jared Allen? I mean, come on, rented mules and red-headed step-children get off easier than that guy did. The officials should’ve pulled Allen aside and told him from now on, you gotta count 5 Mississippi. I can’t remember the last time I’ve seen a display like that. I’m glad Allen is no longer a cheef.

Richard Seymour is a girl.

by pubkeeper on Oct 6, 2009 9:52 AM MDT up reply actions   1 recs

lol... I was shocked too

In fact, I think there were a few plays where the only blocker on Jared was a RB. The OL and questionable play calling / schemes lost that game for the Packers… Aaron played superbly.

by tunga77 on Oct 6, 2009 10:01 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

I like Aaron

Gotta hand it to the Pack, they set themselves up for their post-Favre era better than Denver did for post-Elway. But I can’t believe they didn’t address their O line better. Here’s their plan for Clifton’s injury: slide the LG to LT, slide the C to LG and put in the backup C. So, one injury puts 3/5 of their line in disarray. That is just stupid. But, to top it off, they run 4 wides all night, no max protect, they never left a TE in and the RB you mentioned was window dressing. Seems elementary, but what do I know?

Richard Seymour is a girl.

by pubkeeper on Oct 6, 2009 10:13 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Good points, pubkeeper

So, if you’re a stay at home dad, does the name refer to storing and serving enough alcohol to get you through colic at one age level extreme and puberty on the other? Just kidding, my friend — I love how many stay at home dads are on this site.

I was struck (as was Rodgers), during last night’s game,at how the Pack have recreated some of the Broncos problems during the lost-SB years. I feel for Rodgers – when Denver was averaging a sack every 10 plays, I feared for Elway’s life. The Packer’s O line reminded me of that.

Hillis/Moreno in '09

by Emmett Smith on Oct 6, 2009 10:28 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Reason #1

Why I will never sire children. :)

"3rd and 6, Elway shotgun... Elway, scrambling, looking, running-- DIVING!!!-- inside the 5 yard line for a first down! Is he only 37?! How important is this football game? How bad does John Elway want to win this football game? Where you see the quarterbacks go down: Not Elway!"

by Sharpe as a Tack on Oct 6, 2009 1:22 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah but when you do

Oh man, you will NEVER regret it.

If people aren't supposed to eat animals, why are they made out of meat??

by BigDave on Oct 6, 2009 1:39 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

+1

There is an emotion there that is never felt anywhere else in life. I love my wife but that is not the the same love I feel for my girls. These loves are both strong. These loves are both good. These loves are both real. These loves are not the same.

... if you have a belief, you will tend to find things that support it. But if you have a prejudice, you’ll move heaven and earth to maintain it. BroncoBear

by 3nS on Oct 6, 2009 3:38 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

speaking of allen...

what exactly is his little post-sack celebration supposed to be? he kinda points down, and stirs his arm around a few times, then spreads his arms wide. i feel like it’s supposed to be something, but can’t figure it out. it was driving me nuts cause he had so many chances to do it last night.

by sleepydog on Oct 6, 2009 12:05 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Love it!

Of course, I enjoy rodeo.

Take my advice... I'm not using it!
"If you can't be kind, at least have the decency to be vague."

by BroncTastic on Oct 6, 2009 12:36 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Couldn't wait to get

online this morning knowing that Ted was going to post his usual ST&NO article.

Great read and thanks for the observations. I have such a hard time with trying to lok for the little things I need someone to point them out and only then can I recognize them. (part of the learning curve for me)

Great post and great reading

Highly Rec’d of course

by papasteven on Oct 6, 2009 7:32 AM MDT reply actions   0 recs

I'm with you Papasteven

I looked forward to Tuesdays for this.

by NDbronco on Oct 6, 2009 7:36 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

My Tuesday morning:

1. Get to work.

2. Check e-mail.

3. Wait for the delivery truck to come in while reading ST&NO.

Some days that plan works out better than others, but that’s basically it. And I re-read it at home, to make sure I didn’t miss anything.

Love this column…

At this point in the season, all the Rockies' numbers are magic.
"If you do it right 51 percent of the time, you will end up a hero." - Alfred P. Sloan

by Duncan1800 on Oct 6, 2009 8:04 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

I third that.

Richard Seymour is a girl.

by pubkeeper on Oct 6, 2009 9:53 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Another excellent article

And thanks for the twitter mention last week. Keep up the good work.

by Thnikkaman on Oct 6, 2009 7:43 AM MDT reply actions   0 recs

Stokley's "lucky" catch.

Thanks for pointing out that Stokley’s “miracle” or whatever they’re calling it now involved the team putting itself in the position to have such “luck.” Every time I read someone (or have my Charger-loving co-worker say) that the Broncos won the first game on a ‘miracle,’ I just shake my head to keep from screaming. Somehow, being lost in the talk of a ‘miracle’ — First, like you point out, the team put itself in the position to have some luck. Second, Stokley displayed poise, concentration, and a willingness to NOT give up on a play! Not to mention great hands and speed, especially for an ‘old’ WR. I know basically everyone on here agrees, and many have said the same thing before, but I just had to get it off my chest.

Great stuff on a Tuesday morning, as usual…

by ncm42 on Oct 6, 2009 7:44 AM MDT reply actions   0 recs

28 seconds

That’s the total time Cincy led that game, and it’s only that “high” because Stokley ran off 7 or 8 seconds before scoring. Hard to say a team deserved a win or that the other team only won on luck when you led for all of 28 seconds.

by Gorbal on Oct 6, 2009 8:41 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

the catch

What kills me about all the negative talk about “the catch” is that it takes away from the fact that Cinci had only scored 7 points in that game. The same team that hasn’t scored less than 23 points since…

by DickVMI on Oct 6, 2009 8:43 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

In addition

Denver took advantage of a poor Cincy play if Baily was as dumb as the Cincy player was and knocked the ball up on the last two plays against Dallas, Denver could have lost on a similar “lucky” play. So if Denver beat Cincy on a lucky play, they beat Dallas on smart plays.

... if you have a belief, you will tend to find things that support it. But if you have a prejudice, you’ll move heaven and earth to maintain it. BroncoBear

by 3nS on Oct 6, 2009 9:57 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Bailey did knock the ball up in the air earlier in the game and it was picked off by Woodyard.

So, that’s not a great argument. haha, I’m with your argument, but at the same time, Bailey did do that. In Cincy, the biggest problem they had wasn’t tipping the ball in the air, it was having all three defenders try and pound Marshall’s head into the turf. On defense, you should tip the ball into the air because the odds are in your favor to have you or one of your teammates catch the deflection simply based on the number of players on that side of the line of scrimmage (3, 4 or 5 WR/TE/RB vs 7, 8, or even 9 DB/LB/DE).

So, Leon Hall did the right thing tipping the ball in the air. However, the other DBs were the stupid ones and decided to plaster Marshall instead of going for the tipped ball (or stokely).

So yeah, cincy DBs were to blame for the play, but not Leon Hall. Stokely did what he was supposed to and followed the play in case of a tip or fumble or whatever. He was in position to catch the ball and he did. End of story.

Bringing Bronco love from 1,112 miles away

by kentuckybronco on Oct 6, 2009 10:13 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

The difference

Was that Cincy had the game in hand and didn’t need an interception so batting the ball down would have been the better play.

... if you have a belief, you will tend to find things that support it. But if you have a prejudice, you’ll move heaven and earth to maintain it. BroncoBear

by 3nS on Oct 6, 2009 10:15 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

How do you

bat down a ball that you have to jump up to just tip?

by SlowWhiteGuy on Oct 6, 2009 10:49 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Right

The Bengal player did good by tipping that ball. You can’t foresee everything.

Wrote Great in the sand a thousand times. Forgot about dying and went on home.

by bradley on Oct 6, 2009 11:42 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Ok Ok

I’ll rethink my opinion.

... if you have a belief, you will tend to find things that support it. But if you have a prejudice, you’ll move heaven and earth to maintain it. BroncoBear

by 3nS on Oct 6, 2009 3:40 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well, we all know that it was Week 1.

Palmer was, after all, recovering from surgery, and the offense hadn’t gelled yet.

Or, that’s the mantra being perpetuated.

"3rd and 6, Elway shotgun... Elway, scrambling, looking, running-- DIVING!!!-- inside the 5 yard line for a first down! Is he only 37?! How important is this football game? How bad does John Elway want to win this football game? Where you see the quarterbacks go down: Not Elway!"

by Sharpe as a Tack on Oct 6, 2009 1:24 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Conversely, what would people say had Stokley dropped that ball?

“Oh, a golden opportunity missed!” “What a loser, I could’ve caught that ball.”

That’s what they’d say.

Being in the right place to make a play is not luck, nor coincidence, it was just a good, head’s up, play.

This is our team, let's have fun with it! - dmitchell624
Nothing sucks more than that moment during an argument when you realize you're wrong.

by solace on Oct 6, 2009 9:00 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Sssshhhhh....

Guys, be quiet.

Everyone knows the Broncos are lucky they’re not 0-4, right? Let’s hear it for the Worst 4-0 Team in the NFL!!!

Richard Seymour is a girl.

by pubkeeper on Oct 6, 2009 9:55 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

+1

HEAR HEAR

"I have not failed. I've just found 10,000 ways that won't work."
- Thomas Alva Edison

"Success is not a place at which one arrives, but rather... the spirit with which one undertakes and continues the journey."
- Alex Noble

by DenBronx on Oct 6, 2009 11:09 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Ted, thanks for pointing out what everybody but Terrence Newman knows.

I had the game recorded in HD, and I went back to look at the play after Newman’s post-game whine-fest. That was complete and utter ownage on the part of Marshall. He had the advantage on Newman from the snap of the ball all the way to the TD.

Also, I’ve heard a lot of sniffling from Cowboy fans about the tripping call on Clady, and how it was every bit as malicious as the ones that Flo has been dishing out. To me (through my orange and blue glasses), it looked more along the lines of being incidental. A bunch of these Cowboys fans are saying that Ware was on his way to his first sack when Clady tripped him. I call BS. What do you think?

Thanks for the column and for your input.

DP Message Board Refugee & Drinker of Kool-Aid

I don’t like quarterbacks. - DOOM

by jubei on Oct 6, 2009 7:53 AM MDT reply actions   0 recs

Definitely BS...

Nothing intentional at all about the trip, just one of those things that occasionally happens, when your feet are spaced properly in pass protection.

"I am not one of those who think that coming in second or third is winning." -- Robert F. Kennedy

by Ted Bartlett on Oct 6, 2009 7:56 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

I saw it differently

I saw the slow motion and it looked to me that while Clady did start out with his legs stretched and Ware had already started to trip (hence incidental tripping), I thought I saw Clady stretch his right leg a little more in the last few milliseconds to make sure that the trip was gonna happen. Unfortunately, I can’t find a clip of that to review. Can anybody comment on that?

god created earth in 6 days....on the 7th day, he took a break and created elway

by Bronkos on Oct 6, 2009 8:22 AM MDT up reply actions   1 recs

I haven't looked at the tape, but that's my recollection of the replay too.

What started as incidental became deliberate, but under the circumstances I approve. Had Clady not taken Ware “out” he would have planted his helmet right in Orton’s back, and who knows what might have happened then? What I think is mildly amusing is Cowboys fans complaining about anybody else tripping. What Clady did was a misdemeanor. Adams has three felonies this season alone.

"Luck is the residue of design" -- Branch Rickey

by db8632 on Oct 6, 2009 8:34 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

I agree. I am as much of a Bronco homer as there is but Clady did try the Karate Kid 2 leg sweep there.

by DickVMI on Oct 6, 2009 8:45 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

What I saw

Ware definately beat Clady, he was way off balance and regaining his balance he tripped Ware. Was it intentional? Probably. Was it malicious? In no way.

... if you have a belief, you will tend to find things that support it. But if you have a prejudice, you’ll move heaven and earth to maintain it. BroncoBear

by 3nS on Oct 6, 2009 10:02 AM MDT up reply actions   1 recs

Thanks Ted and HT!!!

Glad I could spark some lively debate!

DP Message Board Refugee & Drinker of Kool-Aid

I don’t like quarterbacks. - DOOM

by jubei on Oct 6, 2009 2:17 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'll add to this.

I have a reputation as being someone who doesn’t attack refs, bad calls, luck, etc. I mantain that refs have the hardest job on the field, and that for every call someone doesn’t like that goes one way, there is one that goes the other. Refs don’t win or lose games. I saw calls both ways that I think might have been called differently, and neither team has room to gripe. The refs called it straight (as they always do).

Having said that…

I noticed the trip play when it was replayed. Clady’s leg was out and both of his feet were planted BEFORE Ware tripped. There was no intentional trip at all. While I don’t agree with the call, I don’t blame the ref either. The ref probably looked just as Ware was getting ready to fall, and saw a movement in Clady’s upper-body that his brain processed (in a split second) as Clady having just balanced himself after putting out his leg to trip. So Clady did nothing intentional at all, and I believe the ref didn’t intentionaly make a bad call.

I also agree with Ted on the “Marshall hold” no-call. Newman is the only guy preaching this silliness, and it comes across as bad sportsmanship. Like Ted, I’ve looked at the play. Nothing suggests a hold at all. It was a clean play.

There will always be calls in a game that aren’t correct, but I’ll never believe that the refs are corrupt or biased. I think the call against Clady wasn’t correct, be our team both benefited from and were detracted from by calls. It seemed to me like there was a flag every two seconds in this game, but in fairness to the refs, Denver (quite frankly) came out sloppy in the first half, and brought more attention to themselves from the refs than they should have.

Good (clean) win to Denver, good game to the Cowboys, and much appreciation to the refs for their hard and professional work Sunday.

"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe

by Steve Nichols on Oct 6, 2009 8:31 AM MDT up reply actions   1 recs

("...BUT our team both benefited...")

"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe

by Steve Nichols on Oct 6, 2009 8:33 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'll agree they didn't cost or win the game

But the refs were horrible plain and simple. More so than what I’m used to seeing. I said something about this in my fanpost covering the game, but it isn’t that they were biased…it is that they called very poorly. If you are going to be a ref, know the rules and apply them consistently.

"Precipitation, which side are you on?
Are you on the rise? Are you falling down?
Let me know, Come on let's go, yeah
Got some if you need it!" -EV

by sadaraine on Oct 6, 2009 8:58 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

That's my take too

Poor officiating. I still don’t understand why the NFL can’t just go pro with their officials. There’s too much inconsistency between crews. It’s amazing to me how much money is involved with the games and they leave it up to part-timers to officiate.

Richard Seymour is a girl.

by pubkeeper on Oct 6, 2009 9:59 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

When I saw the reply it definitely looked to me like Clady extended his leg more in an effort to stop Ware. I deleted the game already so I can’t double check my opinion now =/

A truth can only be expressed and enveloped in words if it is one-sided. Everything that is thought and expressed in words is one-sided, only half the truth; it all lacks totality, completeness, unity.

by Todd Jewell on Oct 6, 2009 9:03 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Dont get me wrong,I love Ryan Clady and I believe he is the best left tackle in the game but the tripping call on Clady was correct.Clady has his feet set and then when Ware is going by he sticks his right foot out.I dont beleive the act was intentional but nonetheless I could see where the referee makes the call.After Clady sticks his leg out,he looks down,perhaps to make sure that Ware was not injured.

As for the nocall on the Marshall TD for offensive PI,it looked like Marshall and Clady were both engaged in the 5 yard bump area and it looked like a legal play by Marshall.

by OrangeCrush4082 on Oct 6, 2009 9:51 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Roughing the Brady penalties

This is a bit of an aside from HT’s comment, but a somewhat related as well. Something that I am surprised Ted did not comment on too! C’mon Ted… j/k. =P

I saw both of the Roughing the Brady calls and they were both horrible IMO. I don’t think that ref’s were being corrupt or anything, but the protection of QB’s (or Brady specifically??) is bordering on ridiculous. I agree almost whole-heartedly with Ray Ray and Ed Reed that something needs to change.

What are your thoughts, guys?

by tunga77 on Oct 6, 2009 10:10 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Totally agree!

That burned me and I am no friend to Ray Ray or the Ravens. I completely understand going after the QB’s knees is off-limits… good. But penalizing the guy when he’s pushed down and just barely grazes the QB and after said QB does his full-court press on the official. Lame.

Richard Seymour is a girl.

by pubkeeper on Oct 6, 2009 10:16 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Even Elway

felt compelled to comment on it a week ago, before the “roughing the Brady” calls.

by SlowWhiteGuy on Oct 6, 2009 10:51 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Weak at best

On the first, the guy did technically brush Brady’s head lightly – penalty called to the letter of the law (though certainly not the spirit – the dude was trying to bat the pass, not hit Brady). On the one where the guy got within 10 yards of Brady’s knees – weak, weak, weak.

by Gorbal on Oct 6, 2009 10:59 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yes, and I believe...

One was on a 3rd and 12 and kept the drive alive, while another was in a similarly long 2nd down that also extended drive… both of which ended in TDs.

by tunga77 on Oct 6, 2009 11:20 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

+1

Hahaha! Roughing the Brady – love it!

"A man can fail, but he is not a failure until he blames someone else." J. Paul Getty

by SteveAssassin on Oct 6, 2009 11:07 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

I can't claim it as my own...

Saw it somewhere on Sunday night… don’t remember where tho. ;)

by tunga77 on Oct 6, 2009 11:10 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

I understand your point...

but I believe the NFL has instructed the refs that these calls are to ALWAYS be called, without room for personal judgement on the ref’s part. That way, the players will get the message to go nowhere near the QB’s legs and there will be much less season-ending injuries to valuable QB’s as a result of hits. If there is room for personal judgement on the part of the refs, there will continue to be players who will be going hard after the QB even after they are down low around their knees.

If you want to send a message to players, call something 100% of the time, no questions asked. Right now, I’ll bet there are plenty of defensive players who will think twice about getting anywhere near the knees of any QB on a play.

Not saying I agree 100%, just saying I think the NFL is trying to send a message. After hearing Ray Ray’s comments… message received.

Take my advice... I'm not using it!
"If you can't be kind, at least have the decency to be vague."

by BroncTastic on Oct 6, 2009 12:50 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

true..during the Monday night game...

Dlifer put together a league wide clip of calls and non calls (QB roughing calls), and it was clearly obvious that all the calls are not being made consistantly through out the league…definately calling into question the intergrity of the game…….I agree 100% with Dilfer in this respect and his rant!

Another thing that I feel needs to end is players trying to influence a flag being thrown with antics after the play….something I have never liked from any player (even our own)…..in my opinion it is taunting of an official and should be flagged…but that is just me ;)

"The question that sometimes drives me hazy, Am I or the others crazy?" -Albert Einstein

by Disturbed70 on Oct 6, 2009 1:08 PM MDT up reply actions   1 recs

Didn't see that clip Dilfer put together

Thanks for the info.

Take my advice... I'm not using it!
"If you can't be kind, at least have the decency to be vague."

by BroncTastic on Oct 6, 2009 1:11 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

example.....one of the clips showed a text book...

tackle on the QB, helmet just under the left armpit, shoulder pad to the gut arms wrapped the thighs, and put on his back (snot bubbles), just as he released the ball, they threw a flag and called roughing…….then another they showed the QB being grabbed by the face mask, twisted, and slung down with no call….it was that obvious!

"The question that sometimes drives me hazy, Am I or the others crazy?" -Albert Einstein

by Disturbed70 on Oct 6, 2009 3:05 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

taunting of an official... should be flagged

+1000

"It's the first time that I've probably ever seen a 260 pound back run into a free safety and go flat on his back, I mean it was exciting." ~John Elway

by jibbons on Oct 6, 2009 1:51 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Thanks Ted

I learn heaps from ST&NO.

Wrote Great in the sand a thousand times. Forgot about dying and went on home.

by bradley on Oct 6, 2009 8:16 AM MDT reply actions   0 recs

Favre Barf

It’s almost impossible to watch a game with Favre in it. The announcers spend so much time stroking the guy I feel like I’m watching a porno. Do we really have to rehash his entire career every time he plays? But you are right, he did look good last night.
I have to disagree with you on Anderson vs. Quinn. I thought this was the first time the Browns showed any life this season.

The crux of the bisquit is the apostrophe. -Zappa

by BuddyHollysPilot on Oct 6, 2009 8:16 AM MDT reply actions   0 recs

+1

Well said…now I can identify that “icky” feeling I had last night when I was trying to watch the game.

"Precipitation, which side are you on?
Are you on the rise? Are you falling down?
Let me know, Come on let's go, yeah
Got some if you need it!" -EV

by sadaraine on Oct 6, 2009 8:59 AM MDT up reply actions   1 recs

LOL!

Take my advice... I'm not using it!
"If you can't be kind, at least have the decency to be vague."

by BroncTastic on Oct 6, 2009 12:51 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Agreed

The man-humping is just gross.

by AllBroncsallday on Oct 6, 2009 9:08 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Exactly

I’m sure Gruden worked his way through half a box of Kleenex last night.

Richard Seymour is a girl.

by pubkeeper on Oct 6, 2009 10:00 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Was that over the line?

Richard Seymour is a girl.

by pubkeeper on Oct 6, 2009 10:00 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

No way

That’s authentic commentary my friend. I really like Gruden, but he was in on the love-fest that was making my stomach turn.

"Precipitation, which side are you on?
Are you on the rise? Are you falling down?
Let me know, Come on let's go, yeah
Got some if you need it!" -EV

by sadaraine on Oct 6, 2009 10:11 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

lol... agreed

For some reason, though, it’s that MNF crew more than anyone! I thought it was going to get better with Gruden in the booth, rather than Kornholer, but man … it was almost … worse! =/

And for the record, I can’t stand Tirico and Jaws. They are so annoying…

by tunga77 on Oct 6, 2009 10:13 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

I was waiting

for the announcers to run on the field wearing knee pads and grabbing Farve. if you know what I mean.

"I have not failed. I've just found 10,000 ways that won't work."
- Thomas Alva Edison

"Success is not a place at which one arrives, but rather... the spirit with which one undertakes and continues the journey."
- Alex Noble

by DenBronx on Oct 6, 2009 11:09 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Now that's funny

Orton made Forte look good? I don’t partake in the Orton vs Cutler trade debate as it seems to be working for both sides, but the only thing he helped Forte with was facing 8 man fronts all year long to hurt his ypc. And the guy still rushed for over 1,200 yards. Did he help his stats in the passing game?of course. He checked down to him constantly. But the guy did fantastic for what he was up against and he is a terrific blocker. You may think average after a few games this year but he has had a knee issue since camp and does not look completely healthy as well as an Oline still gelling but improving every week.

by tfrabotta on Oct 6, 2009 8:19 AM MDT reply actions   0 recs

And Cutler had zero int's on Sunday

but other than that a very nice article and good recap.

by tfrabotta on Oct 6, 2009 8:34 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

No...he had 1...on hail mary...which sucks...but it is a still an INT...

Glad Cutler is working out for you. I agree Botta….both teams are happy!

Those that cant coach, compete!
Failing to plan is planning to fail.
All I want is 53 Rod Smiths. Is that asking too much????
"Peyton Hillis didn’t rip the sleeves off his jersey, they flew off out of fear."
Calijoefornia.

by boydy2669 on Oct 6, 2009 8:36 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Don't mean to argue but check the box score

I just did (because I was at the game and remembered the play at the half). The defender did not come down with the ball.

by tfrabotta on Oct 6, 2009 8:37 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

OK, I flipped the channel right after the play happened.

Maybe it was reversed on video replay.

"I am not one of those who think that coming in second or third is winning." -- Robert F. Kennedy

by Ted Bartlett on Oct 6, 2009 8:38 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

It was almost an int

went through the defender’s hands on the hail mary at the half.

by tfrabotta on Oct 6, 2009 8:39 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Edited

"I am not one of those who think that coming in second or third is winning." -- Robert F. Kennedy

by Ted Bartlett on Oct 6, 2009 8:40 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Sweet...glad it was not then....I hate how they count INT on hail mary at end of halfs!

Those that cant coach, compete!
Failing to plan is planning to fail.
All I want is 53 Rod Smiths. Is that asking too much????
"Peyton Hillis didn’t rip the sleeves off his jersey, they flew off out of fear."
Calijoefornia.

by boydy2669 on Oct 6, 2009 8:41 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yep

kind of cheapies for the QB’s trying to make a play with nothing else to do but heave it.

by tfrabotta on Oct 6, 2009 8:42 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

It funny because its the truth you dont want to admit

Forte did nothing any different running the ball than a former bears rookie named Anthony (A-train ) Thomas or Rashan salaam .

What put Forte over the top ? his pass catching ability which is funny because bears fans give all the credit to Forte for his production while basically bashing Orton for throwing it to him.

Orton would audible from a pass play into a dump off for Forte or change a run right to a screen . My uncle is a huge Bears fans and weve talked about this for months .

Of course you are gonna have 8 man fronts with no wideouts . I wonder where the Bears would be without Knox.The Bears offense looks worse than last year except a rookie wideout is helping on kick returns and catching the ball giving the bears a 1/2 receiver in hester and one potentially whole one .

by Hoopforia on Oct 6, 2009 9:39 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Your welcome to your opinion but are way off base,

but you would hear different at WCG by most bear fans. In fact everyone is very pleased at the wr play to this point and is not the biggest concern. We have not been facing very many 8 man fronts this year. Since the O Coordinator has adjusted the game plan after the GB opener, the offense has been pretty efficient, especially throwing the football. Our run game has been a bit dissapointing but has improved every game as Forte gets healthier and the guys start to gel. Part of that were the constant run blitzing the first 2 games but that subsided as our passing game has been very good the last three especially in the red zone. By the way, no need to be hostile..

by tfrabotta on Oct 6, 2009 10:01 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Interesting point, tfrabotta

Orton hasn’t seen hardly any 8 man fronts either, which puts a shadow of doubt on the Orton/8 man fronts argument. It was far more about the way the players were being used, mostly in the run game. I agree with you – both teams have benefited, and the incessant argument does got old. I like Forte – sorry to hear about the knee.

Hillis/Moreno in '09

by Emmett Smith on Oct 6, 2009 10:35 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well we have discussed this and the 8 man fronts the Bears faced

were not all on Orton. Mr Ron Turner had a big part in that as well…

Roachy love the run stuffin', but don't forget about the TE over the middle!!

by tfrabotta on Oct 6, 2009 10:38 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

But as much as I bash Turner

I have to give him some kudos for the games he has been calling since the GB game. He has put them in some good situations the past three and the completion rate in the pass game has been very high.

Roachy love the run stuffin', but don't forget about the TE over the middle!!

by tfrabotta on Oct 6, 2009 10:44 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think his knee is getting better every week

and so has the line improved each week. I am a little fearful that our great center Kreutz has finally hit the wall. He has not played well this year and he may turn into what John Tait did last year and that is got old in a hurry. I am afraid we will have to suffer through that all year but hopefully the rest of the line can pick that up.

Roachy love the run stuffin', but don't forget about the TE over the middle!!

by tfrabotta on Oct 6, 2009 10:41 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

271 yards and 3.8 per carry..

close though..

Roachy love the run stuffin', but don't forget about the TE over the middle!!

by tfrabotta on Oct 6, 2009 11:46 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Hey Ted

Love your articles, and Eagerly await them….but I have one thing to point out….I know…I’m a Denver Fan so I shouldn’t but……..

I’m 90% certain that I saw what Newman was talking about. It was right about at the line of Scrimmage, and (while I have not watched it in slow-Mo) it definitely looks like Marshall got a big ol’ handful of Jersey as he “brushed” Newman aside.

Don’t get me wrong, I’m sure you probably watched it more intently than I did, I just wanted to point that out. there was a lot of touch after the grab, but I could care less, we got the TD with no flag. so 4-0!!!!!!!

Great writing, now I gotta finish your article HAHA

"I have not failed. I've just found 10,000 ways that won't work."
- Thomas Alva Edison

"Success is not a place at which one arrives, but rather... the spirit with which one undertakes and continues the journey."
- Alex Noble

by DenBronx on Oct 6, 2009 8:21 AM MDT reply actions   0 recs

+1

There WAS some jersey-grabbing, BUT it was a pretty typical swim move to break the jam at the LOS. AND, this had no impact on BMarsh skying over Newman and taking his lunch money several yards downfield!

"A man can fail, but he is not a failure until he blames someone else." J. Paul Getty

by SteveAssassin on Oct 6, 2009 8:39 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah

You can’t really judge contact within 5 yards like that. If Newman doesn’t want to get pushed around, then play off and dont’ try to jam the Beast!

"Precipitation, which side are you on?
Are you on the rise? Are you falling down?
Let me know, Come on let's go, yeah
Got some if you need it!" -EV

by sadaraine on Oct 6, 2009 9:01 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

I agree.

Just wanted to point out that it was almost definitely a jersey grab not a swim move. It is also impressive how much strength Marsh has over Newman……it literally looked like he picked him up by the shoulder and casually moved him out of the way (yes major overexaggeration) But funny nonetheless.

"I have not failed. I've just found 10,000 ways that won't work."
- Thomas Alva Edison

"Success is not a place at which one arrives, but rather... the spirit with which one undertakes and continues the journey."
- Alex Noble

by DenBronx on Oct 6, 2009 11:06 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

okay, okay...

it was actually a modified swim-move – all the same elements that WRs are taught to get separation of the LOS, just without the arm over the top. In fact, as you pointed out, he may have brought his arm over the top of Newman to pass him if he hadn’t already completely relocated him (like on does a small child).

"A man can fail, but he is not a failure until he blames someone else." J. Paul Getty

by SteveAssassin on Oct 6, 2009 11:11 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

+1 It was split second,

but the second time I watched that play I ROFL’d at how much ease Marsh made that look like. HAHA exactly like grabbing a small child.

"I have not failed. I've just found 10,000 ways that won't work."
- Thomas Alva Edison

"Success is not a place at which one arrives, but rather... the spirit with which one undertakes and continues the journey."
- Alex Noble

by DenBronx on Oct 6, 2009 11:16 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

As usual, great piece Ted.

I’m surprised you don’t like Wes Welker. I’d bet my right arm that McDaniels disagrees with your assessment of Welker. That guy is supremely productive, smart, a great effort guy, shows up in big game and is a leader for younger guys to emulate. He is also a winner. If the Pats want to trade him, I hope Denver is interested. He’d be a great replacement for an injury prone and aging Stokley.

Totally agree with you on Andrew Perloff. I roll my eyes at all his articles, but that one yesterday was “GARBAGE”. I’m not a huge fan of Lombardi because he is such a contrarian, but at least he is an insightful and educated one. Perfoff is just know-nothing prick.

Also agree with you on Donald Brown and Cushing. Brown is menacing for Indy. I didn’t like Cushing due to his injury problems, but he is a baller at OLB.

Ted…. you said some things about those Browns that I must disagree with. Quinn… Really? He takes far too many sacks for a guy that doesn’t even look to pass the ball more than 10 yards to the field. His reads are slow and he plays tentative loser football. Like Cassel or J Campbell, I wouldn’t have traded Orton straight up for Quinn in the offseason. The Browns missed on Quinn when they made him a 1st round pick. Quinn is neither a gun slinger or game manager. He is a game loser.

Them Browns also wiffed on Edwards in the Top 10. Like with your comment about Cromartie, don’t mistake physically gifted for talented. Cromartie and Edwards are not talented football players. They are physically gifted athletes masquerading as NFL talents. For a Top 10 overall pick, Edwards has a ton of flaws in his game that most blue chip prospects don’t. And San Diego is talking about replacing Cromartie in the starting line-up with Cason. Cromartie is a strong candidate for most overrated NFL player. I’m distracted by my hate of San Diego.

BTW, Joe Thomas is awesome. He is a sure top 5 LT in the NFL. He is not Clady good, but he is BY FAR Cleveland’s best player.

Cleveland is not winning five games this season. If they can’t beat the Bangles at home, them Browns is going 0-6 in their division and I’d say three wins is their ceiling.

Cutler is playing very well for Chicago. He should be a .500 NFL QB very soon and will be a winning NFL QB by season’s end. Like him or not, the guy is a Top 10 NFL QB. That 1st round pick we get in 2010 is going to be in the 20s. Fortunately, it sure looks like the one we traded to Seattle will also be a low 1st rounder. I think Seattle will be picking in the Top 10, but that pick will based on their season, not ours.

McDaniels and his staff are very impressive. But it is blasphemous to say you have more confidence in him than you “ever” did in Shanny. Were you lost at sea in the Navy when Shanny won back to back Super Bowls? The Green Bay win a function of amazing coaching as Green Bay had a superior players, but we had a better game plan. Shanny is a Hall of Famer. Don’t get WAY a ahead of yourself with McDaniels vs Shanny talk.

But McDaniels and Co have had their team more prepared than our four vanquished opponents. We have decidedly won the coaching battle in every game and that is a very good sign. I liked when the Boston Globe said "Denver picked a ripe fruit off the Patriot’s coaching tree" when talking about McDaniels last week. That was a nice compliment from a knowledgeable source.

Love the Broncos. Mike Nolan is a genius.

by McGeorge on Oct 6, 2009 8:30 AM MDT reply actions   2 recs

I have more confidence in the program

I was in the Navy when the Super Bowls were being won, incidentally, yes.

"I am not one of those who think that coming in second or third is winning." -- Robert F. Kennedy

by Ted Bartlett on Oct 6, 2009 8:37 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

As do I....the staff across the board is awesome...will always appreciate what Shanny did though...mad props there!

Those that cant coach, compete!
Failing to plan is planning to fail.
All I want is 53 Rod Smiths. Is that asking too much????
"Peyton Hillis didn’t rip the sleeves off his jersey, they flew off out of fear."
Calijoefornia.

by boydy2669 on Oct 6, 2009 8:41 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Now THAT

is funny, a coincidence, but funny.

Lady, you want me to answer you if this old airplane is safe to fly? Just how in the world do you think it got to be this old?
— Anon

Both optimists and pessimists contribute to the society. The optimist invents the aeroplane, the pessimist the parachute.
— George Bernard Shaw

by Choochoobonewagon on Oct 6, 2009 12:16 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

-1

I’m sorry McGeorge – certainly nothing personal – but I don’t think there is a single time yet that I have agreed with any of your posts/analysis.

I agree with Ted about Wes Welker. He’s certainly not a BAD player, but he is way over-hyped given his role in the NE offense. Particularly given that every team has spent all of their best D weapons covering Moss and rushing Brady. He does make catches, but it seems that somewhere along the line people watching NFL football forgot that this skill SHOULD be a GIVEN in the NFL (just like catching fly balls in MLB)!!!

"A man can fail, but he is not a failure until he blames someone else." J. Paul Getty

by SteveAssassin on Oct 6, 2009 8:43 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

-1

I am sorry as well Steve……

But not in the sense you might initially think. I agree with both sides. I think his skill SHOULD be a GIVEN…….but….have you watched the NFL lately? His skill is above average. He catches balls, he gets the job done. Even BMarsh drops a TON of passes. So anyone with above average hands WILL excell in the NFL. So saying a player who helps WIN games is overhyped, when he helps more often than not…….I just disagree.

"I have not failed. I've just found 10,000 ways that won't work."
- Thomas Alva Edison

"Success is not a place at which one arrives, but rather... the spirit with which one undertakes and continues the journey."
- Alex Noble

by DenBronx on Oct 6, 2009 11:02 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Thanks, DenBronx...

but you’ve clearly misunderstood my comment. I didn’t say that Welker couldn’t “excel” in the NFL – clearly his stats indicate that he has done well. The word I used was overhyped – which is because while he can catch, he is (and has been) part of an offensive machine (perhaps you have heard of Brady and Moss….and, oh yeah, McDaniels). I think he is a good player, but NOT irreplaceable. The BMarsh comparison is irrelevent – BMarsh does drop passes but he is an explosive receiver and brings something that Welker will never bring to the table.
Also, for the record, I HAVE been watching the NFL for all of my life and have a few friends that play in that league….

"A man can fail, but he is not a failure until he blames someone else." J. Paul Getty

by SteveAssassin on Oct 6, 2009 11:19 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

To clarify,

This was not at all an attack on you, or saying you haven’t been watching….that was more of a Rhetorical Question. I was not calling your knowledge into question, or anything even close.

But I don’t think that he is overhyped. I did not misunderstand, I clearly stated that I believed he was not overhyped. For example….you mention Moss and Brady…..well….What has Moss done this year? More than a lot of people….but overall….not a lot. I will agree, he is not irreplaceable, and I think BMarsh IS irreplaceable so to furthur clarify, I was not saying Marsh is bad because of his drops. I just wanted to use B as a reference point. so my example is relevant, but in the sense that, what Marshall is seemingly lacking AT THIS POINT (not in the past not in the future) is his hands. Welker is lacking explosive physical play. I hate to compare the two but…..Royal’s skill set is very SIMILAR to Welker, though I believe Royal has an edge in terms of speed and overall reading ability.

I simply mean that Welker is not overhyped….he is producing at a pace much better than a good majority of receivers….his hands are ABOVE average, even if his ability SHOULD BE AVERAGE. that is all.

I never meant this to come off as personal, as it assuredly is not. We can agree to disagree and thats fine by me, I put my two cents in and time will tell the rest. :)

13-3!!!!

"I have not failed. I've just found 10,000 ways that won't work."
- Thomas Alva Edison

"Success is not a place at which one arrives, but rather... the spirit with which one undertakes and continues the journey."
- Alex Noble

by DenBronx on Oct 7, 2009 10:15 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Welker

FWIW, his catch rate the past two years has been something like 75% — by far the highest in the league. I don’t doubt that the replacement (the one with the name that makes it sound like he’s writing peer-reviewed articles, not playing the slot) has been productive. But catching 75% of passes is pretty much the opposite of benefiting from a high-volume approach.

I’m on record as saying that no player benefited more from a high-volume passing approach the past two years than did Brandon Marshall. The dude barely caught more than half the balls thrown to him last year.

by Chibronx on Oct 6, 2009 8:45 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

McD v. Shanny

I back Ted on the holistic thing. I know this team hasn’t won anything yet. But the intricate fit between offensive and defensive schemes, drafting, cap management, etc. has me tittering with excitement. Yes, tittering.

I take nothing away from Shanny, but if you revisit the stats, the Superbowl D’s were only just adequate. If the 1998 Broncos weren’t consistently up by 20 points in the early 2nd quarter, and the other team didn’t have to turn into a one-dimensional passing team, it would have had some problems. Even during the Superbowl years, the Broncos drafted questionably. They had problems with depth (Willie Greene, anyone?), never targeted special teams gunners, and on and on.

I can’t shake the feeling that if Shanahan had put in place even a slightly better-rounded organization, the team would have nabbed more titles. I agree about his offensive genius. But the other aspects of Shanahan-the-manager left the team little margin for error.

by Chibronx on Oct 6, 2009 8:49 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Also if we judge Shanny as a whole

there was alot more bad than good. We also must acknowledge McDaniels got the job showing how he would bulldoze that crap players and schemes Mike was running out there the last 10 years.

I think Plummer would agree with Ted as well.
i love what Shanny did in his first 4 years BUT he was extremely mediocre with out John Elway. We all made excuses for him all the time but time has proven Alex Gibbs, John and Terrill were the keys to success there. We beat the Packers cause our line play exhausted them. We beat the Falcons cause, well they were the Falcons.

I would hope you would support who we are. Not, who we are not. Coach Norman Dale "Hoosiers"

by dmitchell624 on Oct 6, 2009 9:24 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yep !! +1

"as in football so in life"

by asinsoin on Oct 6, 2009 9:46 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

“If we judge Shanny as a whole, there was a lot more bad than good”.

WHAT?

Dude, leave Colorado and ask other NFL fans if they wished their teams had any kind of sustained success that Denver enjoyed during Shanny’s tenure. Do you realize Denver has not drafted in the Top 10 since Dan Reeves was coach. Shanny always put a competitive team on the field including two Super Bowl winners and several playoff teams. Even the final three years he was 24-24. The Raiders are 25-75 over their last 100 games. The Chefs have won 2 games in their last 27. Even the annual preseason Super Bowl champ Chargers have drafted in the Top 5 twice THIS decade.

Excuse me for calling you out, but there was a hell of a lot more good than bad when Mike was our coach.

Love the Broncos. Mike Nolan is a genius.

by McGeorge on Oct 6, 2009 11:47 AM MDT up reply actions   2 recs

Agree McG

... if you have a belief, you will tend to find things that support it. But if you have a prejudice, you’ll move heaven and earth to maintain it. BroncoBear

by 3nS on Oct 6, 2009 3:48 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Consider if our division had been more competetive the past 5-6 years...

Do you think that would have shortened Shanahan’s tenure?
In my opinion, saying we were competitive with sub-500 teams isn’t really being competitive, is it?
And Denver not drating in the top ten means what? We weren’t in the bottom 10?
Mediocre is what it is. Not a lot of coaches out there that had 1 PO win in 10 years and kept their jobs. That was Shanahan’s payback – coach for life.
I don’t necessarily see this as a coach comparison, more like a system comparison – Shanahan (Elway) vs Bellicheck (Brady).

by BFF46350 on Oct 6, 2009 4:05 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

McGeorge, my friend

I am a big Shanahan fan.

Every year I bought in to the fact that we were one player away. I believed it with all my heart.

The fact was we weren’t one player away.

The fact is John Elway kept us going for a real long time before Shanahan.

You are right we haven’t drafted in the top ten forever but I think we were headed there. I agree with BFF we were the epitome of mediocre.

The magic was gone.
We got pushed around by the Lions, The Chargers, The Raiders and Chiefs, we lost our famous home field advantage, had a team that quit more often than not in the last 3 years, we got blown out by mediocre teams. This was all under Shanahan’s watch. Except for Elam, our special teams were anything but special and yet the Patriots scarfed up our ST coach. What does that tell us? Shanny had his hands in too much?

Bailey says the defense was treated like second class citizens and they then played like it.
Shanny couldn’t pick and trust a defensive coordinator since Elway left.

There was so much dysfunction. We signed malcontents like Dale Carter, Maurice Clarett, Daryl Gardener, Javon Walker, Ashley Lelie, Travis Henry and quite a few more. Always looking for that one guy every other good coach passed over.

Since 2006, we always started fast and fizzled out. That streak would have been longer but Jake Plummer (another noodled are QB like the one we have now) led us to the AFC Championship in 2005.

We never have had a hard hitting defense like we have now. Al Wilson and John Lynch were hitters but the defense as a whole wasn’t.

I have rooted for the Denver Broncos since 1975, I am proud of the Broncos before Shanahan, during Shanahan and now after Shanahan. The simple fact is Shanahan’s real success was tied to John Elway and the running game. Alex Gibbs and Terrill Davis took us over the top.

I hope Shanahan comes back and takes a long look at his history and becomes the Mastermind again. I love the guy. But if I take my 2 Super Bowl glasses off. I see a man that won those, but also led to a proud franchises decay, something McDaniels is trying hard to rebuild, and is doing a quicker job than the press ever thought he would.

I would hope you would support who we are. Not, who we are not. Coach Norman Dale "Hoosiers"

by dmitchell624 on Oct 6, 2009 7:00 PM MDT up reply actions   2 recs

Donatell

Don’t forget that Donatell has now returned to the fold. He was a defensive coach with the Broncos during the Super Bowl runs.

by Endzone on Oct 7, 2009 3:57 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Great point

I didn’t note that

I would hope you would support who we are. Not, who we are not. Coach Norman Dale "Hoosiers"

by dmitchell624 on Oct 7, 2009 8:55 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

I love what McD has done with the team, and I love the direction they are headed in,

but it is going to take way more than 4 games to rank McD above Shanny. Just like it will take a lot more than 4 games to get into the playoffs.

McD seems like the real deal, but comparing a 4 game coach to a future hall of fame coach is apples to oranges.

"It's the first time that I've probably ever seen a 260 pound back run into a free safety and go flat on his back, I mean it was exciting." ~John Elway

by jibbons on Oct 6, 2009 2:04 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

I don't rate McD above Shanny

I just think he is a better fit in 2009 and WAS WILLING to rip the mediocrity and malaise apart and rebuild a team.
He also does not seem to be intimidated by hiring great coaches, which has been a plus we all see.

Until McD wins a Super Bowl, we cannot rank him near Shanahan. Looking down the road though, i like where we are going.

I would hope you would support who we are. Not, who we are not. Coach Norman Dale "Hoosiers"

by dmitchell624 on Oct 6, 2009 7:04 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Welker

I’m with McG here. We should be seeing by now how many of the types of routes that Welker runs require him (and the QB) to correctly assess the defense and get to the holes – that takes a lot of study and quick decisions to do well. I think it’s selling him short to just call him a guy plugged into a high volume slot.

by Gorbal on Oct 6, 2009 9:05 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Poor Mcgeorge

  At what point will you realize that your boy JC is not nor will ever be a top 10 NFL QB. If ?? JC can manage to, as you say “become a .500 QB soon” isn’t it a bit ridiculous to follow that statement with "like it or not he’s top 10???
  Hey man I appreciate the fact that you have toned down your attacks on McD and that you’re man enough to admit that you couldn’t have been more wrong about this team….oh wait you haven’t done that yet …oh well, you will soon enough.

"as in football so in life"

by asinsoin on Oct 6, 2009 9:11 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

+1

... if you have a belief, you will tend to find things that support it. But if you have a prejudice, you’ll move heaven and earth to maintain it. BroncoBear

by 3nS on Oct 6, 2009 10:19 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

+2

McG doesn’t need me or anyone else to defend him. But I can’t help but noting that he is behaving like a respectable member of the community. He is sometimes a bit too pessimistic for my own worldview, but he presents his arguments well, and backs them up with cogent analysis, which unfortunately cannot always be said for his detractors.

by DCbroncfan on Oct 6, 2009 12:19 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think McGeorge

has every right to express himself. If I disagree I will try to prove my point. But I hope that I have never showed him any disrespect.

I would hope you would support who we are. Not, who we are not. Coach Norman Dale "Hoosiers"

by dmitchell624 on Oct 6, 2009 7:08 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

You seem to be quite fond of the word punk....

Why not let McGeorge speak for himself, he’s quite capable. BTW having a different perspective re JC is hardly attacking (notice I refrained from the 12 year old middle-school language unlike yourself) and is it really wrong to ask someone to own up to previously erroneous perspectives as long as it remains in the realm of civil? Which by the way your response is borderline…. 12 yr old, school punk , brat nananananaaaa

"as in football so in life"

by asinsoin on Oct 6, 2009 1:38 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Sorry guy, but if it quacks like a duck and walks like a duck...guess what I'm going to call it?

I’m speaking for the integrity of the site and calling you out. You and a couple other posters constantly zing on McGeorge no matter the content he is posting. If you don’t like being called out, don’t act like a punk and I won’t have to say “punk” three times in my post to get my point across.

(Do you feel punked yet?)

Like I said, face-to-face this conversation doesn’t happen.

Oh yeah, and if I’m so out of line, why are there multiple posters giving me +s?

"Precipitation, which side are you on?
Are you on the rise? Are you falling down?
Let me know, Come on let's go, yeah
Got some if you need it!" -EV

by sadaraine on Oct 6, 2009 2:02 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Hey, guys

It doesn’t matter who does it or why – name calling isn’t part of rational civil discourse. I’ve called McG on it when needed – not in a long time – and this time, he’s not the one I’m concerned about. Opinions are fine, personal attacks aren’t, Ok?

Hillis/Moreno in '09

by Emmett Smith on Oct 6, 2009 2:25 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

I sure hope that wasn't directed at me like it looks like Bear

If so you are way off. Saying someone is acting like a punk and calling someone a punk are two different things. This is absolutely NOT a personal attack. I’m holding him responsible for how he is treating another poster.

I’m a little sick and tired of McGeorge getting jumped on because of how he posted months ago and I don’t see the staff saying anything to these guys about it. Since I feel like part of a community, I’m doing what’s right.

Now if I’m off and you are directing your comment to asinsoin, then post your remark under his comment instead please. :)

"Precipitation, which side are you on?
Are you on the rise? Are you falling down?
Let me know, Come on let's go, yeah
Got some if you need it!" -EV

by sadaraine on Oct 6, 2009 2:59 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Nice non-answer

"Precipitation, which side are you on?
Are you on the rise? Are you falling down?
Let me know, Come on let's go, yeah
Got some if you need it!" -EV

by sadaraine on Oct 6, 2009 3:55 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

It's called diplomacy

"as in football so in life"

by asinsoin on Oct 6, 2009 4:08 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

+5

I would hope you would support who we are. Not, who we are not. Coach Norman Dale "Hoosiers"

by dmitchell624 on Oct 6, 2009 7:09 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

So just for my amusement let's break this down...

   So you’re defending the integrity of this site with that name calling rant ? Sorry dude but the site will do just fine without your defense.
So what’s your beef anyway?
   You’re so bothered that I had an issue with McGeorge’s post which stated that JC is a top 10 QB because in my response I remind him that he was way off on all of his doom and gloom predictions about this team and he’s wrong about JC as well. So you immediately resort to your rant about we’re all just being too hard on the poor guy and we’re all just punks. Then you throw in this doesn’t happen face to face ( how old did you say you were ??) Look man, in the real world and even among friends it’s perfectly fine to zing someone when they have been wrong as long as it’s done with civility, has substance and doesn’t resort to namecalling. hmmm …you seem to be lacking in all 3 areas. And as for attempting to justify your position by saying you got a + that’s just pathetic. Not real sure what your actual beef is, at first I thought you were a McGeorge alias but McGeorge makes far more substantive points than you do so you should probably let him handle his own respones from now on and get a life of your own.

"as in football so in life"

by asinsoin on Oct 6, 2009 3:01 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

You must not read much here

I’m sick of people bashing a guy who is stating his case. It is over the top and all too common with McGeorge. Yeah, he’s way too negative for my personal tastes too, but he contributes a great deal to the site and backs his stuff up.

Tell me you weren’t being sarcastic and patronizing in your post to him. “Poor McGeorge…”

Where’s the name calling? I’m labeling behavior. I think my beef is pretty well-stated and my point is justified (or I wouldn’t be saying it).

Oh, and feel free to dismiss me from the site when you run it.

Since we’re all being more grown up now, why don’t you go ahead and say that I’ve got a point about McGeorge and that your statement was condescending and over the line. Do that and I’ll be happy to apologize for any misconstrued name calling I did in all sincerity.

"Precipitation, which side are you on?
Are you on the rise? Are you falling down?
Let me know, Come on let's go, yeah
Got some if you need it!" -EV

by sadaraine on Oct 6, 2009 3:15 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

ahhh now you're much more civil

To your points
1) I read here daily and post here a few times a week
2) McGeorge and I have had a semi-friendly back and forth dialogue going for 6 months and doing just fine without your interference. I’ve never called him a punk or a middle schooler and I’ve certainly never veiled a threat with “you wouldn’t say that to my face”
3) Of course I was being sarcastic (duh) ,I promise you McG is a big boy and can handle it but now I have to ask you if you read here much ? There are many posts here everyday that are. In fact I noticed that you’re engaged in another dispute with “wad” over his perception of pass interference. News flash for you…that’s what these discussion boards are for, so everyone can express their opinions, and if you’re wrong people will call you out… but hopefully without the namecalling.. and to that point.
4) Let’s use your words shall we “some of you continue attacking him like some middle-school punk brat” and my favorite “Grow up and quit being a punk” but even more seriously sadaraine please explain the statement you made “face-to-face this doesn’t happen”. I promise you I make far more sarcastic remarks to good friends when we’re zinging each other over sports teams.
5) I’d never dismiss you from the site, I enjoy most of your posts and I have no intention of running it, on the contrary , you’re the one who for whatever reason feels like you must defend the defenseless and maintain the integrity even as you compromise it.
So.. to your final point, I’m sure that you must have a point about McGeorge and yes my statement of “someday you’ll admit that you were wrong about this team” was meant to jab him a little but if you read the statement above that I acknowledged that I appreciated his toning down the attacks on McD. So please tell me exactly what is your beef again ???

"as in football so in life"

by asinsoin on Oct 6, 2009 3:49 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'll let the people speak for me

My first ever green comment was what initiated this back-and forth. Maybe you should sit down and do some contemplation my friend.

"Precipitation, which side are you on?
Are you on the rise? Are you falling down?
Let me know, Come on let's go, yeah
Got some if you need it!" -EV

by sadaraine on Oct 7, 2009 8:57 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

and contemplate exactly what?

I’m still waiting for a remotely intelligent response from you. So it’s ok for you to post your childish EPIC FAIL remarks and What are you smoking remarks but when someone else makes a point you disagree with that isn’t even directed at you it becomes your domain to correct it with even more childish remarks. For the last time bring something with mature substance or drop it.

"as in football so in life"

by asinsoin on Oct 7, 2009 10:13 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

???

You really should drop it if you aren’t going to do anything but throw a temper tantrum. I didn’t ask anyone what they were smoking and my epic fail remarks were explained below. You really should pull the plank out of your eye before talking about the splinter in mine as far as the maturity stuff goes, sir.

You need to understand that this site has rules and a way we are supposed to treat each other. I’ve said it above and I’ll say it again…your remarks above were condescending and very punkish. It isn’t the way you treat people on this site. It is my domain to correct it because I am part of this community.

Now stop trying to point the finger back at me. Go back and look at the string. I have 5 recs for me calling you out and several comments backing me up. You have Bear with a sort-of attempt at calling us both out. I just don’t see how you think you are in the right here at all, but really I don’t want any more excuses or finger-pointing. If you don’t want to man up and apologize, then just be quiet and stop running your mouth.

"Precipitation, which side are you on?
Are you on the rise? Are you falling down?
Let me know, Come on let's go, yeah
Got some if you need it!" -EV

by sadaraine on Oct 7, 2009 11:06 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Temper tantrum ???

Let me get this straight it’s ok for you to call someone a punk and a brat and a middle schooler but not ok for me to disagree with McGeorge that Cutler isn’t a top 10 QB and then rib him accurately that he’s been wrong about most things regarding McD and this team. You my friend have a very warped perseption of reality. I’m certainly not the one throwing around words like punk and brat. It’s amusing how you never address the real issue here and FAIL to even own up to your own remarks. Your remark below to SSC saying “I want some of what you’re smoking” is what I was a referencing, and since you seem to need others remarks to justify your irrelevance it’s interesting that ssc thought you were a 12 year old and out of line for your epic fail comments as well. So, this will be my last response to you, sorry you were never able to engage in any meaningful form of debate and could only hide behind childish words. As I said before I do enjoy a good debate with others who have the intellectual capacity to stay on point and have substance in their dialogue. Good luck with that growing up thing.

"as in football so in life"

by asinsoin on Oct 7, 2009 12:26 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Ugh..."it's like I'm playing poker with my sister's kids!"

Dude…warped reality? You are still trying to put words in my mouth. I never called you a punk or a brat. It’s all back up in the thread. Go read it.

You are the one failing completely to engage in meaningful debate. I don’t need other’s remarks because I knew I was right when I started. They are very useful to show you the truth of this though once you take off your tinted glasses.

I enjoy a good debate as well…go look at my comments in the past. I don’t appreciate you insinuating that I lack intellectual capacity or substance…again with the personal attacks. That goes against the rules.

You are very clearly stuck in a place where you feel defensive because you’ve been called out and have no where to turn. I’m done giving you a place to rant. Go back under your bridge and quit trying to goad me just because you are clearly wrong. I’ve flagged your comment as inappropriate and will be taking this up with staff if you keep acting like a punk.

Like I said before, if you don’t want to man up and apologize, then just stop talking. Those really are your best choices at this point.

"Precipitation, which side are you on?
Are you on the rise? Are you falling down?
Let me know, Come on let's go, yeah
Got some if you need it!" -EV

by sadaraine on Oct 7, 2009 1:19 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

ROFL..Then your sisters kids must take all of your money!!

I flagged your comment as well. If you actually enjoyed a good debate you could start by explainng your remarks that I’ve noted. You keep mentioning the rules and yet you’re the one in clear violation, sorry you can deny it all you want but it’s in print and irrefutable. I’ve confessed that my remark to McG was good naturedly barbed but there was no namecallling or personally derogatory remarks (unlike your comments) and that my friend is the difference that you don’t seem to be capable of understanding. If Mcgeorge was offended and asked for an apology I would certainly comply but the truth is there’s nothing to apologize for….do you want me to apologize for disagreeing about JC or reminding him he was wrong?

"as in football so in life"

by asinsoin on Oct 7, 2009 3:34 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

They do...because I let them. That's how you treat kids that are still growing up.

Flag away. Denial ain’t just a river in Egypt asinsoin. Keep pointing the finger at me all you want — I know I can’t change you if you don’t want to change. Go on and stay as lost as you want to be.

"Precipitation, which side are you on?
Are you on the rise? Are you falling down?
Let me know, Come on let's go, yeah
Got some if you need it!" -EV

by sadaraine on Oct 7, 2009 4:46 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

It's odd how you never address the actual facts here.

Seriously, to simply continue with your “I can’t change you” remarks is classic diversionary tactics. So, once again, I’ve owned up to my remarks including motive and execution, you haven’t even tried to explain your remarks other than denying that you said what is clearly in print. Let’s take it one at a time shall we, Why would you say " Face to Face this conversation doesn’t happen"? The reality here is you jumped into something that had nothing to do with you, made some statements that you shouldn’t have (see Bears response) and now you can’t seem to extract yourself without throwing cliches like “Denial ain’t a river in Egypt” boy that’s original, never heard that one before. Obviously i’ve hit a nerve with you and for that I am truly sorry, but to the origin of our little tiff here your accusations are baseless.

"as in football so in life"

by asinsoin on Oct 8, 2009 7:21 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

EPIC FAIL !!

"as in football so in life"

by asinsoin on Oct 7, 2009 10:14 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

+1

"It's the first time that I've probably ever seen a 260 pound back run into a free safety and go flat on his back, I mean it was exciting." ~John Elway

by jibbons on Oct 6, 2009 1:57 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

I hope you don't think I am ripping McGeorge

We disagree on some things but I respect his viewpoint.

I would hope you would support who we are. Not, who we are not. Coach Norman Dale "Hoosiers"

by dmitchell624 on Oct 6, 2009 7:06 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Cutler

Cutler has some things to work out but if it wasn’t for his first game, I don’t think anybody would be knocking his play this year. IMO

... if you have a belief, you will tend to find things that support it. But if you have a prejudice, you’ll move heaven and earth to maintain it. BroncoBear

by 3nS on Oct 6, 2009 10:21 AM MDT up reply actions   1 recs

And even in a different uniform, he can't help but keep comparing himself to Elway

He’s even doing helicopter runs now! ;)

Seriously though, he has been playing very well since that first game. In the last two games, I would even characterize his play as … “game managing”! Shocking, I know… o.O

by tunga77 on Oct 6, 2009 10:25 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

" I would even characterize his play as … "game managing"! "

I agree, at least in this last game. Cutler was 18-28-0-141. He did have 2 TD passes – one for one yard and one for two yards. Not exactly gunslinger stats. I think he ate some humble pie after the first game and maybe took it to heart.

Wrote Great in the sand a thousand times. Forgot about dying and went on home.

by bradley on Oct 6, 2009 9:57 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

I will give Jay marks...he has calmed down and is [;aying well....his TD run was legit!

Those that cant coach, compete!
Failing to plan is planning to fail.
All I want is 53 Rod Smiths. Is that asking too much????
"Peyton Hillis didn’t rip the sleeves off his jersey, they flew off out of fear."
Calijoefornia.

by boydy2669 on Oct 7, 2009 4:21 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yea, on that TD helicopter run...

One of my buddies texted me and said “Cutler just did a Rosencopter”… to which I responded saying “No way, if he Rosencopter’ed it, he woulda fumbled and had it returned for a TD; this was more of a Elwaycopter, cuz it was ownage”. ;)

Yes, my buddy and I are football nerds…

by tunga77 on Oct 7, 2009 8:17 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

As a Bronco fan that loved watching Cutler in Denver, I’m happy for him. He has been excellent for Chicago over the last three games as he continues to develop a rapport with his offensive teammates. Looks like the Bears found a great young prospect in Johnny Knox.

I’m not the least bit surprised to see Cutler succeeding in Chicago. He is a Top 10 QB in the NFL and will be for the next several years.

Love the Broncos. Mike Nolan is a genius.

by McGeorge on Oct 6, 2009 11:36 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Same here, buddy...

And I am happy for all my Bears friends who are basking in the glow of a good QB for essentially the first time in their lives. Poor souls… ;)

by tunga77 on Oct 6, 2009 11:51 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

here, here..

and I am a cub fan…groan…

Roachy love the run stuffin', but don't forget about the TE over the middle!!

by tfrabotta on Oct 6, 2009 11:53 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

For that...

You have my deepest condolences…

Bartman 4TL

by tunga77 on Oct 6, 2009 11:59 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Good to see Jay is learning he does not have to show ALL his skills to be effective. He is playing well without using the cannon every play. Good to see!

Those that cant coach, compete!
Failing to plan is planning to fail.
All I want is 53 Rod Smiths. Is that asking too much????
"Peyton Hillis didn’t rip the sleeves off his jersey, they flew off out of fear."
Calijoefornia.

by boydy2669 on Oct 7, 2009 4:23 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Please define your criteria for determining "Top 10"

It’s obviously not Wins, It can’t be protects the ball, he’s probably not top 20 for reading defenses. Just curious what criteria you are using to make your assessment with so we can then apply it to all QB’s equally??…and please don’t say he makes big plays and has a cannon.

"as in football so in life"

by asinsoin on Oct 6, 2009 12:52 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Sorry...

I am not familiar with this ‘Jay Cutler’ person.

Don't argue with fools. It's how they reproduce.

by TheMastermind on Oct 6, 2009 11:47 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

He's a bodybuilder

Owning the Patriots since September 9, 1960

by Darin H on Oct 6, 2009 1:33 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

LMAO

"Precipitation, which side are you on?
Are you on the rise? Are you falling down?
Let me know, Come on let's go, yeah
Got some if you need it!" -EV

by sadaraine on Oct 6, 2009 2:03 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Gotta give him props

Cutler had a poor game 1, then bounced back with poise. No INTs since game 2, unless I’m mistaken.

by si_ice on Oct 6, 2009 11:52 AM MDT up reply actions   1 recs

I like the new sig, McG

I also agree with most of your points, though I’m sad to think that Cutler could be .500 by the end of the season. I was looking forward to watching him fail in another uniform. Maybe he has learned something after the trade and has decided to spend time honing his skills. Not that I’m not liking Orton, I think he’s been pretty good so far this year. I hope that once the glove comes off he’ll be hitting his receivers rather than over throwing them.

Especially love your comments about McD and the coaching staff. I think we probably have the best coaching staff in football right now. If we go on to have any success this season, I hope that the staff isn’t raped by other teams.

This is our team, let's have fun with it! - dmitchell624
Nothing sucks more than that moment during an argument when you realize you're wrong.

by solace on Oct 6, 2009 9:17 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Staff Raping

a serious crime

I would hope you would support who we are. Not, who we are not. Coach Norman Dale "Hoosiers"

by dmitchell624 on Oct 6, 2009 9:26 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

The superbowls were a long time ago

and since then I’ve had Zero faith in Shanny (and especially the staff he surrounded himself with). To early for any coach comparison, but it’s also blasphemy to put Shanny on a pedestal for superbowls 10 years ago and one playoff win since.

by NDbronco on Oct 6, 2009 11:27 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Zero faith? That is sad.

Elway’s Super Bowls are my favorite sports memory and always will be.

I’ve always maintained that I was pleased to see Shanny fired. In fact, I was vocal that I wanted him canned after 2007. That said, he is easily the best coach in franchise history and absolutely deserving of our respect and admiration.

Those two Super Bowl wins are timeless in my mind. There certainly is no expiration on my happiness when I think about Elway holding up the Vic Lombardi trophy with tears in his eyes.

Love the Broncos. Mike Nolan is a genius.

by McGeorge on Oct 6, 2009 11:41 AM MDT up reply actions   1 recs

Mine too

The two SB’s and Aston Villa winning the European Cup in nineteen hundred and frozen to death!. Sometimes life can be so very sweet

I have so many friends some I haven't even used yet

by BlobTheMagnificent on Oct 6, 2009 12:09 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Shanny will be back

and probably with a vengeance, having hopefully learned some lessons about building a complete franchise. Look, we all enjoyed the 2 SB’s and Shanny was a vital part of both w’s. Post Elway/TD/Sharpe/Atwater et al he really had no clue how to create a winning culture though. McD said it perfectly yesterday in his presser (paraphrasing) “it all comes down to who can make the tackles, blocks, catches and throws. The strategy matters but not nearly as much as the players making the plays.”
This statement sums up a crucial difference between Shanny and McD, Shanny was / is a X&O genius but for the last 8 years couldn’t sustain a season because he couldn’t get the entire team to buy in.

"as in football so in life"

by asinsoin on Oct 6, 2009 1:13 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Interesting thought
Shanny will be back and probably with a vengeance, having hopefully learned some lessons about building a complete franchise.

If Shanahan has any vitality left, he really should be learning a lot from how the new coaches are rebuilding his former team.

Wrote Great in the sand a thousand times. Forgot about dying and went on home.

by bradley on Oct 6, 2009 10:07 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

+1....Shanny was good and got stale. Happens to all coaches...and i am speaking from experience!

Those that cant coach, compete!
Failing to plan is planning to fail.
All I want is 53 Rod Smiths. Is that asking too much????
"Peyton Hillis didn’t rip the sleeves off his jersey, they flew off out of fear."
Calijoefornia.

by boydy2669 on Oct 7, 2009 4:25 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

That was to McGeorge...why wont comments post to who you reply to!

Those that cant coach, compete!
Failing to plan is planning to fail.
All I want is 53 Rod Smiths. Is that asking too much????
"Peyton Hillis didn’t rip the sleeves off his jersey, they flew off out of fear."
Calijoefornia.

by boydy2669 on Oct 7, 2009 4:27 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

It actually did post "under" McG

The indentation is just a tad small and sometimes hard to line up once there is a bunch of replies to a comment.

by tunga77 on Oct 7, 2009 8:13 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Excellent post once again Ted

looking forward to “Between the Lines.” BTW I mess-cranked in the Chiefs Mess on my first ship, nice tips I tell ya.

by bchiper on Oct 6, 2009 8:44 AM MDT reply actions   0 recs

USN 83-01

CGN36, CVN72, CGN37. Never had the pleasure of mess-cranking, though! (Nuke)

by BFF46350 on Oct 6, 2009 11:19 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

USN 73-95

FFG-3, CGN-9 and DD-991 Now a retired Chief.

by bchiper on Oct 6, 2009 1:54 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

I was 1996-2000

DD963, USS Spruance

"I am not one of those who think that coming in second or third is winning." -- Robert F. Kennedy

by Ted Bartlett on Oct 6, 2009 2:23 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

I actually joined to go to nuke school

and got out as a BM3. Worked out great for me :)

"I am not one of those who think that coming in second or third is winning." -- Robert F. Kennedy

by Ted Bartlett on Oct 6, 2009 2:24 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Smart move...

The nuke program was brutal until the day I got out! I’m appreciative of what it did for me, but I would never encourage anyone else to do it. In fact, I kept my oldest son from going into it a couple years ago. Now he’s in his 2nd year at Purdue. He’s too young to appreciate Orton’s college days, but I keep reminding him anyway!

Looks like we have a lot of small boaters. here! I liked my cruiser duty a lot more that the carrier. Much tighter crew, or “team”.

by BFF46350 on Oct 6, 2009 3:38 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Awesome.

Thanks Ted!!!!!!!

by NedBronco on Oct 6, 2009 9:10 AM MDT reply actions   0 recs

Excellent post Ted !! rec'd

Thanks for the time and effort you put into making this one of my favorite reads every week.

"as in football so in life"

by asinsoin on Oct 6, 2009 9:15 AM MDT reply actions   0 recs

Ted

Great article and thanks for taking so much time to write it

I would hope you would support who we are. Not, who we are not. Coach Norman Dale "Hoosiers"

by dmitchell624 on Oct 6, 2009 9:17 AM MDT reply actions   0 recs

I have a new nickname for Orton

Nuke Laloosh… I saw him hit the bull a couple of times Sunday. At least when he misses it is 5 rows deep. :)

by TX HOCKEY! on Oct 6, 2009 10:04 AM MDT reply actions   0 recs

Random funny thing from this weekend's games

Ball boy outruns Lions STs

This kid actually also ended up on ESPN Radio with some of our local Chicao radio hosts. Apparently it is his job to collect the balls for the scoring player in case they want to keep it and that was why he was sprinting down the sidelines.

by tunga77 on Oct 6, 2009 10:31 AM MDT reply actions   0 recs

lol I saw that!

"Take what you can. Give nothing back!"

by Colorado_Kitten on Oct 6, 2009 12:13 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

"Sign that kid up!"

Ever since they invented TV (no, I wasn’t there, but you’re close) kids have dreamed about being in the stands at a baseball game and making a great grab on a liner out of the field. In their thoughts, a manager then stands u and points, crying out, “Find that kid and sign him up!” It was all I thought when I saw the ball-ball sprinting. Funny as heck.

Hillis/Moreno in '09

by Emmett Smith on Oct 6, 2009 1:22 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Champ Bailey will be on Jim Rome

in 30 minutes (10ish am PST).

The commenter formerly known as "Dashiell".

by underdog on Oct 6, 2009 10:37 AM MDT reply actions   0 recs

It was a great interview

Champ is as classy as it gets.

Take my advice... I'm not using it!
"If you can't be kind, at least have the decency to be vague."

by BroncTastic on Oct 6, 2009 1:05 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

excellent

Ted as a SK I know your pain of month end, just finished the fiscal year end. When I cranked I got lucky and was put into the wardroom, helped that I was in supply though.

Great write up as always.Living here in SD I hear all the time how Denver is a prentendor and how SD is beat Denver like a drum on 10/19. I want that win so badly

somethings wrong, Trying to conquer these fears i thought were gone. And it's been so long, I'm dying to live in a world i don't belong

by broncfanstuckinsd on Oct 6, 2009 11:13 AM MDT reply actions   0 recs

Champ is stil great, but ....

He made the play when it counted but as much as I hate to say it, he also committed pass interference. At any time other than the last play of the game and against anyone other than Champ, I think that crew would have flagged him. Every close call went against the Broncs the whole game right up until then. Champ is still a great corner, but he is not the player he was two years ago. He is not as aggressive against the run and has clearly lost at least half a step. He makes up for a lot with his smarts, but old man time and injuries have cost him just a little.

by The Wad on Oct 6, 2009 11:31 AM MDT reply actions   1 recs

Disagree

That was solid play by Champ. He timed it perfectly.

They were playing Champ outside his comfort zone last year in coverages where he was clearly not able to react to the QB the way he naturally does. It is hard for me to say whether he’s as fast as he used to be or not but he’s experienced, tough and at all times one of the smartest players on the field.

Don't argue with fools. It's how they reproduce.

by TheMastermind on Oct 6, 2009 11:37 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

EPIC FAIL

Sorry Wad, but there was no PI on the last play. Bailey went for the ball and did not adjust the receiver off the router at all. You must be clueless at this sort of thing, since I’ve not heard or read about ANYONE saying he interfered.

Also, he isn’t being aggressive against the run because he’s a friggin Cornerback and the front 7 are actually capable of doing their jobs this year. If Champ is getting involved heavily in the run-stop game something is horribly, awfully wrong.

Did you come out from under a bridge? =)

"Precipitation, which side are you on?
Are you on the rise? Are you falling down?
Let me know, Come on let's go, yeah
Got some if you need it!" -EV

by sadaraine on Oct 6, 2009 11:46 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Whoops

route…not router

"Precipitation, which side are you on?
Are you on the rise? Are you falling down?
Let me know, Come on let's go, yeah
Got some if you need it!" -EV

by sadaraine on Oct 6, 2009 2:04 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

for someone who's calling out another for being a 12yr old ...

i find your constant use of “FAIL” and “EPIC FAIL” rather … curious.

i’m with The Wad on the PI.

by ssc on Oct 6, 2009 2:44 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Oh my goodness

Sorry, but fail and epic fail are typical geek / Internet terminology. I’m a network admin, have kids, etc.

Good morning everyone. I’ve been a geek and a Denver Bronco fan for well over 2 decades. My last time being a geek was about 2 hours ago. I never stop being a Denver Bronco fan, but I accept that……..

"Precipitation, which side are you on?
Are you on the rise? Are you falling down?
Let me know, Come on let's go, yeah
Got some if you need it!" -EV

by sadaraine on Oct 6, 2009 3:04 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

You have kids?

Most network admins I know have been sterilized.

by BFF46350 on Oct 6, 2009 4:17 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

LMAO

There are some of us who flew under the radar. :) Yeah I have two and they are both being brought up as true Bronco fans.

"Precipitation, which side are you on?
Are you on the rise? Are you falling down?
Let me know, Come on let's go, yeah
Got some if you need it!" -EV

by sadaraine on Oct 6, 2009 4:37 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

as a fellow geek (mostly by nature, never by profession)

i always felt that “FAIL” and “EPIC FAIL” were very aggressive … akin to shouting at someone who offered their opinion: “BOY THAT WAS STUPID; YOU SUCK”

but maybe i’m just intimidated by capital letters.

by ssc on Oct 7, 2009 9:00 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

*shrugs*

There is no “YOU SUCK” applied with epic fail. Epic fail means and utter failure basically (which in this case, I think the poster’s comment was). It isn’t attacking, it is calling a duck a duck. :)

"Precipitation, which side are you on?
Are you on the rise? Are you falling down?
Let me know, Come on let's go, yeah
Got some if you need it!" -EV

by sadaraine on Oct 7, 2009 11:11 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

And for the record

I want some of what you are smoking too…that was a far FAR cry from pass interference.

"Precipitation, which side are you on?
Are you on the rise? Are you falling down?
Let me know, Come on let's go, yeah
Got some if you need it!" -EV

by sadaraine on Oct 6, 2009 3:05 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

If they are not calling straight up muggings on Royal 5 yards before the ball is in his chest, not once but twice

Than they are not going to call PI on Bailey when he is challenging the ball at the receivers hands. As sadaraine has stated, though Baileys hand was on the back of Hurd, it was not there to pull or push the receiver off the ball, but instead as incidental contact while making a play on the ball.

The fact that he had a pick and FOUR passes defended, two at the most crucial point of the game and 8 tackles, all solo, should be a statement as to how dominant he still is.

Lady, you want me to answer you if this old airplane is safe to fly? Just how in the world do you think it got to be this old?
— Anon

Both optimists and pessimists contribute to the society. The optimist invents the aeroplane, the pessimist the parachute.
— George Bernard Shaw

by Choochoobonewagon on Oct 6, 2009 12:26 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Just to add

Baileys pick prevented the game from potentially getting away from the Broncos, as Dallas was sure to score at least 3 points on that drive, something that should not be discounted.

Lady, you want me to answer you if this old airplane is safe to fly? Just how in the world do you think it got to be this old?
— Anon

Both optimists and pessimists contribute to the society. The optimist invents the aeroplane, the pessimist the parachute.
— George Bernard Shaw

by Choochoobonewagon on Oct 6, 2009 12:33 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Completely agree

This is why the mainstream media matters. When Champ doesn’t get thrown at, he doesn’t get deflections or INTs. His reputation sustained him all those years, and because he’s a multiple time pro bowler, he gets away with pass interference. Rec’d.

by legendarywalton on Oct 6, 2009 12:45 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

-1

Take my advice... I'm not using it!
"If you can't be kind, at least have the decency to be vague."

by BroncTastic on Oct 6, 2009 1:07 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

for the "he gets away with pass interference"

Take my advice... I'm not using it!
"If you can't be kind, at least have the decency to be vague."

by BroncTastic on Oct 6, 2009 1:08 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

EPIC FAIL AGAIN

What are you guys smoking!? Share. Now.

"Precipitation, which side are you on?
Are you on the rise? Are you falling down?
Let me know, Come on let's go, yeah
Got some if you need it!" -EV

by sadaraine on Oct 6, 2009 2:05 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

-1

Maybe you missed these comments:

Bailey went for the ball and did not adjust the receiver off the route at all.

Why would you have called PI?

The fact that he had a pick and FOUR passes defended, two at the most crucial point of the game and 8 tackles, all solo, should be a statement as to how dominant he still is.

What else does he have to do to prove that the term Shut Down Corner applies?

"It's the first time that I've probably ever seen a 260 pound back run into a free safety and go flat on his back, I mean it was exciting." ~John Elway

by jibbons on Oct 6, 2009 2:19 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

-1

Played the ball both times and didn’t impede the receiver.

DP Message Board Refugee & Drinker of Kool-Aid

I don’t like quarterbacks. - DOOM

by jubei on Oct 6, 2009 2:55 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Sorry guys, disagree with all of you.

He had his arms around the back of the receiver. I’ve seen a lot less called on other DBs. Take off the homer goggles.

by legendarywalton on Oct 6, 2009 8:15 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Take off the contrarian goggles.

I went back to check the video of both of the last plays, and I googled for a detailed explanation of the rule. The on field call was correct for the following reasons:

1st pass
the pass was clearly out of reach (Hurd could barely touch the ball with one fully extended arm (heck even Aikman thought it needed to be down to have a chance)

2nd pass
a.) Bailey touched Hurd on the back, but did not restrict Hurd’s ability to make the catch
b.) Bailey had established position in-between the ball and Hurd and made contact with Hurd while making a play on the ball, which is not interference
c.) Bailey deflected the ball before his contact with Hurd became a hook that redirected Hurd (what I mean by this is that Hurd’s body did not redirect from its course until after Bailey had deflected the ball)

The last play actually looks more impressive after this exercise as Bailey had the smarts to prepare for a solid hit while reaching in front of Hurd to make a deflection. Even if Bailey missed the deflection his timing would have been correct to hit Hurd as the ball came to him in an effort to knock the ball out.

"It's the first time that I've probably ever seen a 260 pound back run into a free safety and go flat on his back, I mean it was exciting." ~John Elway

by jibbons on Oct 6, 2009 11:33 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

I got my source by googling: nfl paass interference rule

Here’s the link

http://www.footballscrimmage.com/nfl/pass-interference.shtml

"It's the first time that I've probably ever seen a 260 pound back run into a free safety and go flat on his back, I mean it was exciting." ~John Elway

by jibbons on Oct 6, 2009 11:34 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

On that 1st play...

Champ beat the receiver to the spot anyway, if anything it could have been offensive interference :)

"The question that sometimes drives me hazy, Am I or the others crazy?" -Albert Einstein

by Disturbed70 on Oct 7, 2009 12:52 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Based on the calls that were occurring during the game...

I interpreted the last play as being influenced by a pro bowl defender who is expected to make terrific plays. This is just like the NBA. If you watch the Denver Nuggets, you’d notice that Linas Kleiza experienced a massive surge in scoring after establishing himself as a decent swing man. After scoring 40+ points in a game against the Kings two seasons ago, referees began to give him calls in the paint that he had not been previously afforded.

Case in point, the call on Goodman (I agree was not pass interference). I’m just saying that if Goodman breaks up that pass, we see a PI flag.

People discount the behavioral psychology of a referee far too easily.

by legendarywalton on Oct 6, 2009 11:46 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

2nd pass

The big redhead is right. We have all seen PI called plenty of times on plays just like Champ made on that 2nd pass. We saw flags earlier in the game, thrown by the same ref, with a lot less contact by the DB. Champ got the benefit of the doubt because of who he is and when the play occurred. Also, I took another close look at the replay too and from what saw it sure look like he turned him with the right hand before the deflection with the left. Anyway, there was no flag and at the end of the day that’s all that counts.

by The Wad on Oct 7, 2009 7:50 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Exactly.

I’m not unhappy that we won… which is what every contrarian on this board is accused of. I’m simply pointing out that it was a close call and Bailey gets the benefit of the doubt. I agree with your observation regarding the contact… I wouldn’t have been happy if they called it (obviously) but I could see how it might be construed that way.

by legendarywalton on Oct 7, 2009 10:23 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

-1 again

You’re backpedaling now. You weren’t

simply pointing out that it was a close call and Bailey gets the benefit of the doubt.

You said

His reputation sustained him all those years, and because he’s a multiple time pro bowler, he gets away with pass interference.

Big difference. And why you’re getting the response you are.

Take my advice... I'm not using it!
"If you can't be kind, at least have the decency to be vague."

by BroncTastic on Oct 7, 2009 11:01 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

I must need a course in logic

Because I don’t see those two statements as mutually exclusive.

by legendarywalton on Oct 7, 2009 11:46 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

-1

Make up your mind LW. :)

"Precipitation, which side are you on?
Are you on the rise? Are you falling down?
Let me know, Come on let's go, yeah
Got some if you need it!" -EV

by sadaraine on Oct 7, 2009 11:11 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

I never took anything away from him.

He’s one of the best CBs of all time. It was pass interference, and if any other broncos DB makes that play, it’s pass intereference.

I still think it was PI.

by legendarywalton on Oct 7, 2009 11:45 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Who's a troll now?

Sardine and BT are either just trolling or they genuinly don’t understand. Hard to tell which or which is worse.

by The Wad on Oct 7, 2009 12:53 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Pot vs Kettle?

It is Sadaraine, not Sardine.

You both have some seriously skewed understanding of the rules of the game to still think that PI. No way, no how. I’ll agree to disagree and leave it at that.

"Precipitation, which side are you on?
Are you on the rise? Are you falling down?
Let me know, Come on let's go, yeah
Got some if you need it!" -EV

by sadaraine on Oct 7, 2009 1:23 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yep

Take my advice... I'm not using it!
"If you can't be kind, at least have the decency to be vague."

by BroncTastic on Oct 12, 2009 12:06 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

It is part of the technique

for a corner to “feel” where the receiver is. That way he can concentrate on the QB/ball and be aware of any instant movement of the guy he is covering. You will see that 9 times out of 10 in almost any game, and provided there is no pressure applied or the receiver blocked or forced off his route then it is entirely legitimate.

I don’t see any drop off in Champ’s ability to tackle in open field either to be fair. He may have lost a step, it is hard to compare how he is now with how he was before the injury ravaged season last year. I am still not convinced he has. But above all else the guy is smart and can con both QB’s and receivers into playing into his hands. He is still awesome and probably the most complete CB the NFL has ever seen.

I have so many friends some I haven't even used yet

by BlobTheMagnificent on Oct 6, 2009 1:11 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

the refs will never call....

a flag on a player who is playing the ball and not the man, he didnt go “through” the receiver and timed his jump right when the ball arrived, text book defenseive pass coverage! Still one of the best in the league….man he see such a small amount of plays but when they do go at him he still shows hes got it ;)

"The question that sometimes drives me hazy, Am I or the others crazy?" -Albert Einstein

by Disturbed70 on Oct 6, 2009 1:44 PM MDT up reply actions   1 recs

Agreed.

If Champ was guilty of PI on the last couple of plays, then the Dallas secondary was guilty of outright mugging Eddie Royal on a couple passes.

Rec’d.

DP Message Board Refugee & Drinker of Kool-Aid

I don’t like quarterbacks. - DOOM

by jubei on Oct 6, 2009 2:54 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

the hook

they usually call the PI if the defender actually hooks the waist, versus just placing his hand on the receiver’s back. when you actually get your hand/wrist hooked around the waist, the ref tends to assume you’re pulling the receiver toward you in order to get your front arm out to reach the ball.

jack williams made a similar play in the game, where he didn’t hook the receiver.

you know MHR readers, it’s ok to admit that champ got a bit of a break on the last call. it doesn’t take away from his greatness, or his INT, or the win.

by ssc on Oct 6, 2009 2:59 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

We know it doesn't take anything away.

But he didn’t do anything wrong, so we don’t have anything to admint. = )

"Precipitation, which side are you on?
Are you on the rise? Are you falling down?
Let me know, Come on let's go, yeah
Got some if you need it!" -EV

by sadaraine on Oct 6, 2009 3:06 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yep!

Take my advice... I'm not using it!
"If you can't be kind, at least have the decency to be vague."

by BroncTastic on Oct 7, 2009 11:03 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Following your logic...

What happens if Champ gets called for PI vs what actually happened?

by BFF46350 on Oct 6, 2009 3:20 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Another attempt

I saw he had his arm around him and according to broadcasters that is PI but I agree that Champs arm didn’t bother the reciever and wasn’t PI.

... if you have a belief, you will tend to find things that support it. But if you have a prejudice, you’ll move heaven and earth to maintain it. BroncoBear

by 3nS on Oct 6, 2009 4:05 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

based on replays i saw on total access

they run the same play and maybe romo gets his head out of his butt and looks to the other side, where goodman was beaten twice. then again, i’ve seen goodman make some remarkable plays closing on balls, so maybe goodman was also baiting romo …

by ssc on Oct 7, 2009 8:54 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

True, when you wrap the receiver...that is when the refs....

consider you as playing the receiver and not the ball ;) And I still dont think Champ was guilty of any PI it was a veteran corner play and SOLID coverage :)

"The question that sometimes drives me hazy, Am I or the others crazy?" -Albert Einstein

by Disturbed70 on Oct 7, 2009 12:43 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Good point Ted...

About Jack Williams. I like him but was a little wary of how well he’d step up in place of Smith…I don’t think I heard his name more than once Sunday – which was a good thing.

He had a good game. McD really has done a tremendous job of putting together a roster with talent and depth.

And that’s after ONE off-season. Imagine how good this team could be next year…

Don't argue with fools. It's how they reproduce.

by TheMastermind on Oct 6, 2009 11:33 AM MDT reply actions   0 recs

Thanks, Ted!

Another awesome post. For those interested, the game will be shown on NFLN tonight at 8 eastern time. I didn’t get to watch on Sunday, so will be in front of the old t.v. tonight for sure.
I don’t think we need to ‘compare’ Shanny with McD — each has their own place in Broncos history, and we do a disservice to both when we try to act as if they are comparable. Shanahan brought the Broncos to glory, and McDaniels might well help them return to those lofty heights; but in both style and substance, the men are apples and oranges.
One player on the Broncos who got letf out of all the hoopla of Marshall’s catch and run is Daniel Graham: He laid an epic block on a Dallas defender at the beginning of the run, and was Marshall’s personal escort into the end zone. Much like Stokley in the Cincy game, it may seem as if he was just lucky to be in the right place at the right time, but, just like Stokley, Graham was the obvious proof of good, no, great, coaching.
Denver has made plays on offense and defense because they have been prepared to make those plays by their coaches. Can’t wait to see the NE game!

by 42n81 on Oct 6, 2009 12:14 PM MDT reply actions   0 recs

always enjoy...thx

disagree on your Welker statement; his agility and quickness are bar none….he does benefit from Brady and the system though for sure.

what’s the big deal with the Whiteley column?? I expected something inflammatory. It just reads like a lukewarm, uncertain fan….makes me think your prejudiced against us fans that develop insights based on less than 20 hours of game film.

really liked and agreed with your insight on the defensive series that turned the tide….great insight there.

surprised that a gentleman who mess-cranked in the service writes with such a chip on his shoulder. I only say so because sometimes it distracts me from the quality of your work/insight

Thx again!

by BideshiBronco on Oct 6, 2009 12:27 PM MDT reply actions   0 recs

Nah, my issue with Whiteley was tangential to the column

JeffG said yesterday that he was upset about not being friends with McDaniels, which i found completely laughable. He’s some kind of local master of the universe, I guess. Then i read his column, which I found to be poorly-written and -reasoned. Then, I decided to incorporate him in ST&NO, and increase his degree of famousness outside the Denver area. So I guess it worked out for him OK.

"I am not one of those who think that coming in second or third is winning." -- Robert F. Kennedy

by Ted Bartlett on Oct 6, 2009 1:29 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Snippy...

Does there seem to be a bunch of bitter/angry/inflammatory comments today (me probably included, but I had a hard night of being sick)? You’d think it would be all rainbows and sunshine today.

by NDbronco on Oct 6, 2009 12:52 PM MDT reply actions   0 recs

Darn these daytime jobs!

They keep getting in the way of all the really important stuff.

If this be Hell, let us make the most of it!

by Trinidad Jack on Oct 6, 2009 1:04 PM MDT reply actions   0 recs

Thanks Ted..

great info all around. Got to say that the team looks like they love playing with each other and that is always a good recipe. I like’d Ayers play on sunday, nice to see him getting in the mix!

by wisco on Oct 6, 2009 4:14 PM MDT reply actions   0 recs

Very good post, Ted. Rec'd!

I agree that the key defensive series was in the 4th Q with the Haggan and Holliday’s sacks. They stopped the Dallas momentum. Denver turned it in their favor quickly and it resulted in a TD.

I haven’t had time to read all the comments – I intend to – but as Trinidad Jack says – our daytime jobs get in the way of all of the really important stuff. Thanks TJ.

Give credit to Roy Williams. He was noticeably hurting after DJ’s monster hit. He went over the middle again to snare a pass.

Thanks Ted and everyone. I will read it all later.

by Blackknigh on Oct 6, 2009 4:32 PM MDT reply actions   0 recs

st&no

Nice article, but I’m surprised you didn’t mention Tony Romo’s comment when he was asked why he challenged Bailey. He said he didn’t have much choice because the Broncos defense was good all over. Isn’t it amazing (and great) that the team defense cohesiveness is so good that going one on one with Bailey is an attractive option?

by opinion8r on Oct 6, 2009 6:14 PM MDT reply actions   1 recs

Between the Lines

I love that part of this article. I saw you were going to post it in Fanposts. I looked there and couldn’t find it is it under some other name or did you just run out of time. I Understand work come sfirst but just curious.

by nsink on Oct 8, 2009 11:11 AM MDT reply actions   0 recs

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