The Dude Abides....The Stats That Don't Lie, Week 4
Nobody Puts The Stats That Don't Lie in A Corner
--Patrick Swayze
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Week 4 is officially in the bag. The Broncos picked up another big win, Kyle Orton taught us all not to go out and get dirty without some form of protection (on the hand, the kids are still up), and Josh McDaniels and Brandon Marshall doled out a very important moral lesson:
Strong men also hug.
Welcome to the Week 4 addition of the Stats That Don't Lie, your guilty little escape from the Jay Cutler vs. Kyle Orton debate, in which we explore the four stats that really do matter when it comes to winning football games (in order of importance): Turnovers, Field Position, Time of Possession, and Converting on 3rd downs.
As I've said before, if you win these four categories, you win. Period. And yes, I don't care whether your QB is Johnny Unitas or Johnny Utah.
For those that need a primer, or want to look at the stats from previous weeks, just click on the following links:
Before we get to this week´s numbers, a few words about the games. First, for as much publicity as the Broncos are receiving lately for being the "real deal," they've got some real work to do with respect to 3rd down efficiency, time of possession, and field position. Dallas won all three of these categories. Luckily, the Broncos won the most important stat (and the one that correlates most to winning), which is turnovers. However, I am sure that inside Dove Valley, McDaniels knows the Broncos absolutely must do a better job on kickoff and punt returns, a better job of controlling clock, and a much better job on 3rd down. Let's hope Denver can improve in these three areas.
Another game that is worth studying is the San Diego-Pittsburgh game, in which the Steelers actually lost the turnover battle. It's worth studying because notice what Pittsburgh did in the other three categories. They simply worked San Diego over with 40 minutes of clock, 67% on 3rd downs, and 6 yards more in average starting field position. It's rare to see this, but it can be done. And one should note, the turnover battle was only lost 2 to 1.
Lastly, Jay Cutler played well last week. It's okay to admit this. However, Chicago fans should also be lauding how well they are doing on special teams. Their average starting field position against Detroit last week was Detroit's 46-yard line. Viva la special teams!
Here is the week 4 Summary:
- The team that won the turnover battle won 11 of 14 games played (79%).
- The team that won the time of possession battle won 9 of the 14 games played (64%).
- The team that had better third down efficiency won 9 of the 14 games played (64%).
- The team that had better average starting field position won 10 of the 14 games played (71%).
- There were 5 games this week in which a team won all four categories. They also won all 5 of these games (100%). For the season, this stat is 20 out of 20 games.
- The winning teams this week averaged 1.29 turnovers, 32:10 in time of possession, 38.65% on 3rd downs, and their average starting field position was the 33.54 yard line.
- Top 5 in giveaways: 1. CHI 2.SF 3.MIA 4. 8 Teams tied with 1
- Top 5 in time of possession: 1.PIT 2.CLE (OT) 3.MIA 4.DET 5.CIN (OT)
- Top 5 in 3rd downs: 1.PIT 2.BAL 3.IND 4.MIN 5.GB
- Top 5 in avg. starting field position: 1.CHI 2.JAX 3.CLE 4.TB 5.NYG
- Of the 62 games that have been played this season, 87.10% were won by the team with less turnovers, 67.74% with a better time of possession, 62.90% by the team who won on 3rd down, and 74.19% by the team that won the field position battle.
Also, here are the 4-week averages that you can use as a benchmark for this week's stats:
Score TOs TOP Third Down Field Pos Comment
DET 24 2 36:30 41.18% 18.15 JC likes throwing hard...and field position.
CHI 48 0 23:30 20.00% 53.92
CIN 23 2 36:01 27.78% 20.07 Close in all categories except Field Pos.
CLE 20 2 38:55 31.58% 39.06
OAK 6 3 25:47 13.33% 24.93 Hutt can't convert on 3rd down.
HOU 29 2 34:13 18.75% 37.47
SEA 17 2 31:06 40.00% 30.64 Manning w/ turnover battle...deadly.
IND 34 1 28:54 61.54% 32.60
NYG 27 2 30:47 40.00% 37.46 KC vomits on 3rd down..again
KC 16 1 29:13 13.33% 28.17
TB 13 2 31:04 15.38% 37.58 My perfect record almost falls.
WAS 16 4 28:56 28.57% 34.83
BAL 21 2 25:04 64.29% 21.88 Pats win from TO and Field Position.
NE 27 1 34:56 40.00% 28.82
TEN 17 3 25:53 50.00% 18.83 Collins for help see...Orton, Kyle.
JAX 37 1 34:07 46.15% 44.31
BUF 10 3 22:51 9.09% 29.00 Owens? No...3rd downs and turnovers
MIA 38 0 37:09 52.94% 36.18
NYJ 10 4 27:21 25.00% 25.85 Turnovers...what more can you say?
NO 24 1 32:39 30.77% 29.45
DAL 10 2 33:07 21.43% 26.83 Neckbeard's 4th game with no INTs!
DEN 17 1 26:53 20.00% 23.83
STL 0 3 29:48 31.25% 20.15 STL likes to give the ball up...every week
SF 35 0 30:12 30.77% 35.09
SD 28 1 19:40 33.33% 28.90 Pit dominates time of possession
PIT 38 2 40:20 66.67% 22.80
GB 23 2 28:16 53.85% 20.40 Min wins all 4....but it's Favre, right?
MIN 30 1 31:44 57.14% 32.73
As an interesting side note, this was the first week in which I used the above 4 stats to predict week 4 winners. And for the 1st time in my pitiful existence, I picked all the week's games correctly. Perhaps hell is getting cooler and pigs are sprouting wings.
I am not yet ready to believe that this was not a complete fluke (sort of like a Raider fan with a college degree), so I am certainly not going to try and pimp my method to the MHR members. I will simply say that because of the high correlation to winning that I've noticed with the above 4 stats, I came up with a power number for each team (using a 3 week weighted average, with the highest weight to Turnovers and the lowest to 3rd downs) and then added a 5% bonus for home field advantage. The team with the highest number I picked.
But this is a topic for another post. Denver needs to do a better job on 3rd downs and with field position...along with winning the turnover battle in week 5.
Look forward to your comments! Go Broncos!
Percentage chance that Kyle Orton plays with a full neckbeard in Week 5: 22.35%!!
This is a Fan-Created Comment on MileHighReport.com. The opinion here is not necessarily shared by the editorial staff of MHR
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Strong men
Also cry Mr. Lebowski, strong men also cry.
If people aren't supposed to eat animals, why are they made out of meat??
by BigDave on Oct 7, 2009 5:14 AM MDT via mobile up reply actions
historical data
Have you looked at your big four over the course of an entire season? If so, please post the winning percentages for each. It seems logical that turnovers are number one, but I am real curious about the order of importance of the other three over a full season or more.
Wad
Indeed I have. I looked at every single game during the 2008 season on a spread.
Roughly, they held up the same as this year:
8 of of every 10 games were won by the team who won the turnover battle
7 out of 10 for field position
7 out of 10 for time of possession
6 out of 10 for 3rd downs
Picking this week’s winners must have been a fluke. We’ll see how it goes in following weeks.
Smokey, my friend, you are entering a world of pain.
Wow.
You quoted a lot of “stats” here. You must be a LOSER!
LOL
Love the posts Dude. Please keep them coming. They’re both helpful and fun.
And, congrats on the perfect week of predictions!
If I can make fun of the Raiders and get in a Point Break reference
stats can be a real riot!
thanks, man!
Smokey, my friend, you are entering a world of pain.
Like you say lebowski if we don't improve and improve vastly
then we aren’t going to hold up against some of these better teams. We stayed in the game Sunday because Romo was way off on his accuracy. I’m thinking for some reason he got rattled, but after watching the game again I haven’t put a finger on it. Unless it was the sacks.
Bfree
I was thinking the same, because on many of those passes, they were keeping the extra blocker in and he had some time.
I would suggest going back to the tape and doing two things:
1) Were the throws that Romo did not hit, were they 2nd or 3rd reads. Sometimes you will see a QB very accurate with this 1st read, but inaccurate with his 2nd and 3rd, because he has to re-adjust his body and his mechanics. I would have to go back and look, but I suspect this could be the case.
2) Look pre-snap and see what Denver was in? A quick way to tell is to see if Wesley Woodyard and Jack Williams are in on the formation. It’s possible, that Nolan guessed right 100% of the time on Sunday and had the pass packages called on all the right pass plays from Romo, which could have affected his accuracy from a coverage standpoint.
Could be worth a look.
Smokey, my friend, you are entering a world of pain.
When it comes to turnovers...
It seems that missed field goals and failed 4th down conversions could count as well (you may have already addressed this and I missed it). A successful field goal gets a score and a kick-off. An unsuccessful one turns the ball over on downs.
Dude. Awesome. This is becoming one of my favorite weekly reads.
I wonder if I can get those running averages for all 32 teams each week. It would help me ajust my Beatpath Diagram even better!
ORANGE CRUSH! ... need I say more?
USMC, Thanks
Just about to head to bed before I checked for comments.
Not only will I give you those, I would be happy to give you the entire spreadsheet each week if you want. Or I can just post them separately a a ranking “post each week.”
I finished the stats today, but tomorrow, I will have the 4 week weighted averages done…probably by the afternoon. Let me know how you want them. Could even put them in this thread if you would like.
Smokey, my friend, you are entering a world of pain.
WOW, that little info on your picks is GOLD
I would love to see it, but, honestly, you could be on to something that has tremendous impact for insight into a MAJORITY of games……look forward to it.
I appreciate the work you put in on this and love the notes/insights. This stuff gives amazing insight into HOW a team is playing…..on a different level than just watching the play
Keep it up!!
Great job, Dude!
Hey, from what I was seeing on TV, Marshall was on the verge of showing us that strong me also cry!
Regarding DEN/DAL
Denver lost 3 of 4, but you can squint and come away with the feeling that this wasn’t an anomaly.
The difference on 3rd down was very small, and both teams were downright abysmal. Nobody would’ve won with 21% if the other team wasn’t right down there with them.
The starting field position was 3 yards, which I’m guessing from the 23 to the 26 is relatively insignificant. Most of the other spreads were quite a bit bigger than that one.
TOP was the biggie. I’m not too surprised that Dallas won that battle, since coming into the game they were the top rushing offense. The head-scratcher there is that they regressed against that Broncos defense, but still won time of possession. Chalk that up to the poor first-half play. I’d be willing to bet that we won the TOP in the second half. After all, I don’t think Dallas converted a 3rd down in the second half at all (the 4th and 3 notwithstanding).
Dig your serious with a shovel man
Rec’d
"Precipitation, which side are you on?
Are you on the rise? Are you falling down?
Let me know, Come on let's go, yeah
Got some if you need it!" -EV
One seems incorrect
You said that the 20 times that a team has won all four categories that they have won. I guess that must exclude cases where there is no difference in turnovers..is that right? Cleveland won the three categories and tied on the other..and lost (obviously a close game since it almost ended in a tie).
ND, Good insight, I was wondering when someone would poin this out!
Correct….I count those cases in which turnovers are tied. Don’t tell Chibronx, but this edges up the stats slightly with a little statistical bias. I usually quote 80% winning when the team “wins” the turnover battle (which could mean they tied). If I took out those games in which teams were tied, this state would go down slightly to about 75%. This was also the case last year in 2008 during the 265 games. I counted an even turnover battle as a “win” If I would have taken out the tied turnover battle games, it would have been about 75% again.
Excellent eye for detail NDB!!!! Appreciate!!
Smokey, my friend, you are entering a world of pain.
My 2 cents
Don’t include them as wins. It may push you up 5%, but to me it isn’t accurate…it means both the winner and the loser of the game won the turnover battle but they didn’t.
No big deal though…the difference in percentage isn’t enough to really skew things much.
"Precipitation, which side are you on?
Are you on the rise? Are you falling down?
Let me know, Come on let's go, yeah
Got some if you need it!" -EV
Wow --
I was just looking at stats on NFL.com, figuring out the matchups between us and New England, and their defense is apparently giving up a whopping 40.9% on 3rd down. Now, their offensive output is 45.8%, but with our defense’s impressive 26.4% allowed, it’s one of those unstoppable force/immovable object things again. This game is really shaping up to be an interesting matchup.
Field Position
That, for me, is the biggest improvement we need to make. Imagine if we had the average Position that, say Chicago or Jax had last week.
Thanks for breaking it down, Dude!
"Take what you can. Give nothing back!"
by Colorado_Kitten on Oct 7, 2009 12:14 PM MDT reply actions
Off subject
1st thanks for the series and your work. Did you ever find out a good reason as to why Denver declined the holding penalty that would have taken Dallas out of field goal range. Even if Dallas would have got some of those yards back FG percentage from that area of the field goes down exponentially with each added yard.
... if you have a belief, you will tend to find things that support it. But if you have a prejudice, you’ll move heaven and earth to maintain it. BroncoBear
Dallas lost 4 yards on the play
so the holding would have only netted 6 yards and would have given them another chance to pick up the first down. McD essentially conceded the FG rather than risk a 1st down. And -6 yards at that point would not have significantly altered the likelihood of the FG.
by SlowWhiteGuy on Oct 8, 2009 10:15 AM MDT up reply actions
Thanks
So it would not have been out of FG range. it wouls have been a 53 yarder if no yards were picked up. Then that makes a lot of sense.
... if you have a belief, you will tend to find things that support it. But if you have a prejudice, you’ll move heaven and earth to maintain it. BroncoBear
Soo...
What do your stats based on the 4 categories say about the Denver Patriots game?
Great stuff by the way. Rec’d
Go4
I hate to say this, so I am glad it’s in this thread and no one will check, but my power numbers say the Patriots, even if you add the 5% bump for home field. I am not sure how loud I should say that.
Smokey, my friend, you are entering a world of pain.
Gotcha!
Just kidding. I’m worried about this one.
"You give 100 percent in the first half of the game, and if that isn't enough, in the second half you give what's left." – Yogi Berra
"We don't stop playing because we grow old; We grow old because we stop playing." -- George Bernard Shaw
Breaking jaws or the NFL in Oakland who cares? Fall on your pirate’s sword - Ponderosa
Kap
I was hoping no one would come back and see this!
I hope these stats make me a liar…big time. When I looked at the number, however, the Pats have the same total number of turnovers, better time of possession, much better 3rd down effeciency, and better field position. Shhh. Don´t tell anyone.
Smokey, my friend, you are entering a world of pain.
lebowski, I'd love to say I love these stat reports...but I say that every week...I need to find something new...
You should get paid for these breakdowns, I’m curious, do you do this somehow for a living? I have never been a ‘stat-type’ but, had stats been laid out, explained, detailed, then displayed as you grace us with each week…I just might have been.
Anyway, thanks again.
Guardian of the Gate to La La Land!
Gonsoulin, Taylor, Little, Wright, Gradishar, Atwater, Davis, and Sharpe...
Why are they not in the Hall...I just don't understand.
Thanks MC
I work with spreadsheets for cash flow analysis and financial projections and modeling, but that about 1/4 of my job, so I don’t get burned out by doing some of this stuff. It’s pretty fun actually because I am interested in developing some kind of simple statistical way of projecting football wins, without it being overly complex. I am not sure I have the holy grail yet, but I am getting there!
Smokey, my friend, you are entering a world of pain.
Keep up the good work Dude
Let’s see if you can spot this Point Break reference?
“Get me two Utah….Two.”
"You give 100 percent in the first half of the game, and if that isn't enough, in the second half you give what's left." – Yogi Berra
"We don't stop playing because we grow old; We grow old because we stop playing." -- George Bernard Shaw
Breaking jaws or the NFL in Oakland who cares? Fall on your pirate’s sword - Ponderosa
Kap
Thanks for bringing in Point Break. I still laugh when I watch this movie, because Reeves says his lines the same way in every movie.
Smokey, my friend, you are entering a world of pain.
Speaking of which
R.I.P. Boddistopha!
"You give 100 percent in the first half of the game, and if that isn't enough, in the second half you give what's left." – Yogi Berra
"We don't stop playing because we grow old; We grow old because we stop playing." -- George Bernard Shaw
Breaking jaws or the NFL in Oakland who cares? Fall on your pirate’s sword - Ponderosa
Hmmm...
I’m pretty sure we’ve got the patriots beat by quite a bit on turnovers… what makes you say the patriots have us beat in that category?
Ahh... Offensive turnovers.... duh
At least now we know why the broncos will win in spite of your prediction. Gotta account for this amazing defense :-)

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