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Around SBN: Troubled Yankees Join Troubled Red Sox In Last Place

Shallow Thoughts & Nearsighted Observations

Happy Tuesday, friends.  It's a short week, with another game on Thursday night, so there's no time to mope or feel sorry for ourselves.  In their scheduling wisdom, the NFL took away our right to do so - and I, for one, am glad.  The Giants can be beaten, with sound play, but we'll get to that eventually.  For now we'll put this week to bed and move on quickly.  Ready.... BEGIN!!!!

1.  I am approaching one full year as a staff contributor to MHR, having joined at the beginning of December 2008.  It's been quite an interesting year, and my relationship to the team has kind of changed in an unexpected way during that time. 

I first discovered MHR in April 2008, right before the draft.  It, and SBNation, have come a long way since then, but the basics were the same; MHR is a respectful, knowledgeable community which discussed all things about their team.  I was inspired to join such a community, and I started posting some FanPosts (which were still called Diaries only a year and a half ago).

Unlike a lot of staff members, I wasn't asked to fill a specific role, so I had to figure out what mine would be.  I had always done some around the league stuff, but I wanted to find a delivery formula that would work well on a Broncos site.  I debuted ST&NO on January 12, 2009, with the following opening:

Star-divide

 

As we enter the re-loading season, I felt like I needed to establish a fun new recurring feature.  HT has MHR University, and Broncobear has the always excellent Tales from the Sunny Side.  Styg is heading up some great draft coverage, which has a fun name, which you'll be hearing about very soon.  Nick has some statistical analysis pieces which will be coming, and Zappa will continue to be Zappa, intermittently unleashing jolts of Broncos fan brilliance.  And the Guru, when we form like Voltron, the Guru is the head.

So where does that leave me?  Well, I was thinking a couple days ago, as I listened to Enter The Wu-Tang and shoveled a foot of snow, that two things I can consistently provide are shallow thoughts, and nearsighted observations.  Since this is a Broncos blog, I'll focus on our team, but I'll also include some league-wide thoughts, for keeping-up-with- the-Jones purposes.  Shallow Thoughts & Nearsighted Observations.  What else could be needed on top of that?  Maybe just some more cowbell....  Did anybody bring a cowbell?

Well, ST&NO has grown, and I have too.  As I was sitting on my couch Sunday, watching the debacle against the Chargers, I realized that I wasn't yelling and cursing as much as normal.  I didn't get that excited, and I have to say, upon some reflection, that I have been less excitable about the Broncos this season than ever.  For the first 6 games, I had a hard time finding new ways to express my pleasure with the situation, and for the last 4, I have had trouble doing the opposite thing.

All I can figure is that my role in writing for this site has subtly and gradually forced me to become more of an objective analyst, and less of a passionate fan.  I think the change largely has to do with my relationship with and attitude toward reporters.

I like to beat up on NFL reporters, because I think that most of them only have a surface-level knowledge of what is going on in a football game.  The Broncos have a couple of good reporters, in Lindsay Jones and Jeff Legwold, and I never take any shots at them.  I actually have tended toward staying away from taking deserved shots at the Denver-area Woody Paige bloviator class, because I don't want to spend the site's goodwill with the Denver media; it's John's to spend, not mine, after all.  (Woody going after Kyle at BroncoTalk made me briefly lift my moratorium in the comments section of Horse Tracks the other day.)

Here's a summary of my general attitude toward football reporting.  I think there is relatively little value in the reporting of news, at the national level.  When Lindsay Jones reports on what happened at the facility every day, there is value in that.  When Chris Mortensen hears 10 minutes before Jay Glazer that Chris Simms will start, who cares?  Everybody was going to find out soon enough anyway, so what's the difference who had it first? 

The real value, to me, is in the analysis, which is why I devote my time and effort to being a good analyst.  While I am not a journalist, I do admire the journalistic principle of objectivity, and I think that in reconciling my criticism of national NFL reporters with my long-held policy of non-hypocrisy, I have become more objective.  If I am going to beat them up for not knowing the technical aspects of the game as well as me, I can't be less objective than them.  Something like that.

I remember last spring sitting in a bar with some co-workers for a happy hour, and seeing Woody's face come on Around The Horn.  I told this girl I work with, Trudy, that I competed with him in the marketplace of ideas, and that I kicked his butt, on the merits.  Well, I really don't think of Woody as my competition anymore, for a lot of obvious reasons.  (Like, for example, he can't compete with me.)  Due to the established nature of my content, I feel like I am competing with national guys, like Peter King and Gregg Easterbrook, even if this platform is Broncos-specific.

So, the point of this is that I was struggling with what to say in a general way about Sunday's game, when I don't have the deep feelings that most of you do, and that I would have had a year ago.  I feel like I imagine Tom Jackson to feel; I'm very disappointed at the result for my affiliated team, but at the end of the day, I have the rest of the football landscape to worry about, too, and I have to get on with the business of being an objective analyst.  I am still coming to grips with this change, and I am not really sure what the ancillary implications are for me.  This may be one of these existential crises like we're seeing with Team Edward or Team Jacob.  (I have a lot of 20-something women among my Facebook friends, so, trust me, I know.)  See here for a funny breakdown of that Twilight sitch-ee-ation

(Big up my man Justin Dazet for finding that.  Justin writes a blog that gets into gaming and other stuff, and a San Diego area column on Geek Culture.  Check him out if you're into that sort of thing.)

Momentarily, I will get back to the business of breaking down the game details, like I always do, but I thought I should at least explain why there was no impassioned, emotional screed today about the Broncos.

2.  Information From My Eyes - Chargers at Broncos

a.  First things first.  I am going to tell you why Kyle Orton didn't start the game.  He couldn't take snaps from under center and drop back effectively.  It's that simple.  The injury that he has prevented it.  If you can only play in the shotgun, your running game is severely limited, from the perspective of the direction you can run.  Josh McDaniels said this without really getting detailed, but this is what he meant.

Orton took a few snaps under center, but he really labored with his footwork, and it hindered the timing of the running game, and the Broncos could only really run to the A and B gaps.  When the QB is playing slow, it makes the whole offense play slow, unfortunately.

b. The Broncos came out running the ball like they meant business.  They could do that with Chris Simms under center, but Simms obviously never held his end of the bargain as a passer.  When Orton came into the game, it wasn't conducive to running the ball, and neither was Orton's ability to retreat from center.

c.  Knowshon Moreno scored a Touchdown, and Ron Nuclear Winter's crew blew the call.  When I saw who the referee was, right after kickoff, I tweeted;

 Ron_winter_tweet_medium

I am sure Moreno's play was a TD by virtue of relative positioning.  To wit, Russ Hochstein's knee was across the goal line, and if his knee caused the fumble, which it clearly did, then the ball had to be across the goal line.  That play was an absolute killer, because with a TD at the end of the half, the Broncos are right back in the game at 13-7.  The energy of the game had momentarily shifted to the Broncos, and just like that, it was gone.

d.  I was very disappointed with the defensive scheme, as I have been the last several weeks.  The Broncos have really changed from an aggressive defense to one which is reading and reacting, and I don't like it at all.  In the game at San Diego, the Broncos had great success pressuring the A gaps, and I saw very little effort to do that Sunday.  They also got Elvis Dumervil in favorable matchups against the terrible Jeromey Clary, and again, there was none of that.  Clary was even injured, and they didn't seem like they wanted to go after him.  The Broncos need to get back to what made them tough on defense.

e.  A little noticed good thing about Sunday was kickoff and punt coverage.  The Broncos never let Darren Sproles hurt them in the return game, and both Josh Barrett and David Bruton made outstanding plays in downfield coverage. 

f.  The Chargers defensive backs got away with playing through the bodies of Denver receivers several times.  The Broncos were a lot sloppier than San Diego, but not to the point where the penalty disparity should have been as wide as it was.  It seems to me that teams which have "physical" labels like San Diego, Pittsburgh, and Baltimore get away with mugging a lot of WRs, and not just with crappy officiating crews like Nuclear Winter.  It's like how you might call a foul playing an indoor basketball game at the Y, but you wouldn't call the same thing playing streetball.

g.  Speaking of penalties, I want to know what the unsportsmanlike conduct was against Marcus Thomas and Ronald Fields on those two kicking plays.  It seemed to me that they just hit the long snapper, though it was hard to tell from the TV angles on the recorded Short Cut.  Those seemed like Nuclear Winter ticky-tack calls. 

h.  Andre' Goodman had a hard time dealing with the size of Malcolm Floyd on Sunday.  Chris Chambers has done very well in Kansas City, but Floyd is a much tougher matchup for a guy like Goodman.

i.  I put a great deal of the Broncos' recent offensive struggles on the absence of Ryan Harris.  They haven't been able to protect nearly as well as they did in the first six games.  That's not exactly meant to be an indictment of Tyler Polumbus, who is fine as a backup OT and special teams player.  It's just recognizing the fact that Harris is one of the best RTs in the game.  The timing of the offensive struggles aren't coincidental.  It looks like Harris is still hurt, but let's hope he can play on the other side of the Giants game.

j.  Again, the gap discipline took a vacation in the second half of the football game.  Peter King thinks the defense of the first six games was a mirage, which is dramatically oversimplifying the case.  They have still been quick and active for big stretches during the losing streak.  It's just been less common to see them sustain it for 60 minutes lately.  D.J. Williams (again) and Andra Davis both had pretty bad days in the gap discipline department.

k.  I was fine with the onsides kick call, even if it didn't work.  It was a good situation for it, because the Broncos were going to lose anyway without a big play.

3.  Information From My Eyes - Other Games

a.  Again, Thursday seems like it was a long time ago.  I was very impressed with the play of Ricky Williams in the absence of Ronnie Brown.  I haven't liked the play of Williams so much, maybe ever.  The Dolphins didn't do much of their Wild Cute Marine Mammal stuff, but they ran very well from traditional formations, against a Carolina defense which is usually stout against the run.  The direct snap stuff is good because of Brown, who has a rare instinctiveness for the options it provides.  The Dolphins were smart to go back to the handoff game with Williams.

b.  I still don't like Chad Henne's tattoo, but he had a very steady game.  He's improving as a player every week, and I give the Dolphins a lot of credit for taking it slow with him, and developing him in an intelligent way.  Tony Sparano doesn't receive a lot of acclaim, but I have been very impressed with the coaching job his staff has done for two years now.

c.  The Dolphins have started ST&NO Favorite Sean Smith at RCB all season, and are now starting Vontae Davis at LCB.  They have done a great job, and they really more than held their own against Muhsin Muhammad and Steve Smith last Thursday.  Both guys are very talented, but again, it's a testament to the coaching they are getting from Todd Bowles, the Dolphins Assistant Head Coach and Secondary coach.  I fully expect Bowles to get a head coaching job this offseason, even though nobody in the reporter-o-sphere is talking about him. 

d.  I criticized Joey Porter's play last week, but the benching seems to have motivated him.  He was dominant, with two sacks and two other tackles for losses.  It helped that Jordan Gross was hurt, but Porter looked much better than I have seen him this season, regardless of the matchup.

e.  I watched a great deal of the Green Bay-San Francisco game, and I came away thinking that Aaron Rodgers has it better than Alex Smith from a protection standpoint, which isn't saying much at all, obviously.  San Francisco has a pretty good LT in Joe Staley, but he's been hurt for a few weeks now.  Smith couldn't do anything at all for most of the game Sunday, because he was getting hit the second he got to the top of his drops. 

In the second half, with the score getting lopsided, the Niners smartened up and just put Smith in the shotgun, where he is most comfortable.  He responded with 3 TD passes and made the game look like it was closer than it was.  I continue to think that Smith is more than good enough to win with, if he gets protection.  When you evaluate what he does in a vacuum, he's doing the right things way more often than not.

f.  I have heard a lot of criticism of Aaron Rodgers lately, but he continues to look like a top-notch passer to me.  He is gaining 8.2 yards per pass attempt, with 19 TDs and 5 INTs this season.  He has also run for more yards than any QB in the NFL, and 3 TDs.  I also tend to think you have to evaluate Rodgers in a vacuum, and other than holding the ball a little too long sometimes, he doesn't do much wrong.  The last couple weeks, he's been getting the ball out quicker, too.

g.  The loss of Al Harris is really going to hurt the Packers badly.  It severely limits their ability to use Charles Woodson in the wide variety of roles that they liked to use him in.  Woodson has often covered TEs and is a great blitzer.  He's played as well as any defensive player in the NFL this season, and now the Packers may need to use him more on the outside. 

I actually think the loss of Aaron Kampman is pretty negligible for them, despite his big name.  He hasn't adjusted well to playing OLB, and his tallness has hurt him.  By coming from a standup position, Kampman hasn't gotten the leverage he used to play with.  He needs to move on to a 4-3 team where he can play on the strongside again.  He's about the best in the NFL at that, after Mario Williams.

h.  I can't believe the Jaguars are 6-4, but they are.  When they win, they have been getting good play from David Garrard and Mike Sims-Walker, which they did on Sunday against Buffalo.  Garrard is an interesting guy, because he seems young, but he isn't.  He's actually 31, and he's probably reached the prime of his career.  He's good enough to take a team to the playoffs, obviously, but do you build around him?  I kind of feel the same way about Garrard as I did about Jake Plummer at the end of 2005, though I think Garrard is a little better player than Plummer was.

i.  A guy who has been an outstanding player for a few years, without getting any credit, is Kyle Williams for the Bills.  He was dominant on Sunday.  Williams is kind of a short, stout DT, who does a great job getting penetration from a 3-technique position.  He's never been a big sack guy, but his ability to shoot gaps has disrupted a lot of running games.

j.  It's funny how many ST&NO favorites become really good players in the NFL.  Percy Harvin hasn't gotten a lot of credit, because the media is busy loving on Brett Favre, but he's become a good NFL receiver quickly.  A lot of Mel Kiper's said Harvin didn't run a lot of routes at Florida, but he was always open when he did.  It was clear to me that he'd be able to separate with quickness as he learned NFL technique.  His technique is improving quickly, and he's a handful.  Along with Sidney Rice and Bernard Berrian, he's part of a really dangerous receiving corps.  I can't think of a lot of groups I'd take over them, actually.

k.  Joseph Addai has never been a favorite of mine, but he's playing better than ever lately.  I still think that Donald Brown is going to be the better player, but Addai seems to have found some confidence and toughness that I never perceived in him.

l.  The AFC has had a lot of outstanding safety play this season, but if I had to pick two starters for the Pro Bowl, they'd be Melvin Bullitt and Bernard Pollard.  Bullitt got some notice for stopping the 4th and 2 last week, but he has been terrific in replacing Bob Sanders.  Tampa 2-teams need a quick safety who can get from a cover-2 shell to the box very quickly, and Bullitt has done it as well as Sanders ever did.

Pollard was cut by Kansas City, and I just didn't get it.  Maybe Scott Pioli was paying him back for last season's hit on Tom Brady?  Pollard has been spectacular at times for the Texans, and has really been the star on the back end that they've never had.  (No, Dunta Robinson is not a star; he's only paid like one.)

Brian Dawkins, Ed Reed, Jairus Byrd, Antoine Bethea, Kerry Rhodes, Brandon Meriweather, and Reggie Nelson would be battling it out for the last Pro Bowl spot, but I am sure about the top 2, as of today. 

m.  Laurence Maroney is doing a decent job of re-establishing his reputation as a solid RB.  He has had the knock of not being particularly tough, kind of like Addai, but Maroney has been picking up a lot of tough yards lately.  Take away the goal-line fumble against he Colts, and he's been really good.

n.  Mark Sanchez looked confused almost the whole game on Sunday, against a New England team that knows how to confuse a QB.  Sanchez is a classic example of what happens when teams get some film on you and know what you're going to do.  I don't think it's time to bench him, like the average Peter King is calling for, but it would definitely behoove the Jets to figure out what Sanchez is comfortable doing, and sticking to only that stuff.

o.  I can tell you right now, the Lions had a fantastic draft in 2009.  Matthew Stafford, Brandon Pettigrew, and Louis Delmas all look like future Pro Bowlers.  MHR favorite Sammie Lee Hill has been a solid starter at DT, and DeAndre Levy has been solid starting at WLB, since Ernie Sims as lost for the season, too.  The guy I might like best, actually, is sixth-rounder Aaron Brown, a RB from TCU.  He caught a TD pass on Sunday, but where he looked really dangerous was on kickoff returns.  He's very explosive looking.  I think Derrick Williams will eventually be a useful player too, and that makes 7 hits in one draft class.  It's exactly the kind of performance that their opponents from Sunday (the Browns) need.

p.  Speaking of he Browns, I have some thoughts.  It sucks to lose like that, on an untimed down, but if I was a Browns fan, I would feel a lot better than I did a week ago.  Brady Quinn had his best day as a pro, with 4 TD passes, and a 5th one dropped.  Sure, he wasn't pressured a lot, when Detroit didn't blitz, but he looked like he was in command, and the offensive game plan looked like Brian Daboll trusted Quinn, finally.  Mohamed Massaquoi and Chansi Stuckey did a very nice job making plays down the field.

I mentioned that the Browns need a good draft; they have 11 picks as of right now, and they need to hit on the majority of them.  If I were their new football czar, I wouldn't draft a QB in the first round.  I would give Quinn a full year with better talent (and coaching), and see what I have.  My target would be Russell Okung, an OT from Oklahoma State, who I'd play on the right side.  The Browns' current right side is flat-out awful.  I'd be bringing in 2 good RBs, since they have zero right now.  They need a Correll Buckhalter-type of free agent, and a second-round pick like a Jonathan Dwyer from Georgia Tech.  One of their 3rd-round picks would go for a TE who can catch, like Ed Dickson from Oregon.  With 2 new RBs, a TE, and a RT, all of a sudden, you have a solid group of players on offense.

Offense has to be the priority, because their 5 TDs on Sunday matched their previous total in 9 games.  They aren't really that far away from being league-average, and I only used 3 of 11 picks in this hypothetical situation.  The Browns could be 8-8 or 9-7 next season, if they make the most of their offseason opportunities.  I can see it now; Todd Bowles wins coach of the year for them, after going from 2-14 to 9-7.

q.  The Texans just continue to lose heartbreakers.  Matt Schaub made plays, again, and gave his team a chance to win, again.  And then Kris Brown blew it, again.  I feel really bad for guys like Schaub, Andre Johnson and Mario Williams, who bring it every week.  I'd hate to see these circumstances cost Gary Kubiak his job, but they just might.

r.  I was going to talk about how everybody needs to slow down on the Vince Young hype train, but he justified the hype Monday night.  Repeatedly, he picked up 3rd downs with his legs, and his throwing was pretty good too.  He particularly threw a pretty ball that Nate Washington didn't come down with.  He looked like he did at the University of Texas.  You heard it here first; the Titans are going to beat San Diego by 2 TDs in a few weeks.

s.  Trent Dilfer is a really terrible analyst, and I don't get the Steve Levy and Matt Winer combination with him.  Usually, there's one anchor type to serve up softballs to the analyst.  It's a weird setup.  Back to Dilfer, I think the guy is just about always wrong.

t.  Right after I typed that, ESPN went back to the Stuart Scott-Matt Millen-Steve Young set, and they proceeded to blame Matt Schaub for Kris Brown's missed field goal.  Epic FAIL.  All the guy could do was what he did.  He moved his team down the field in 45 seconds, and set them up with a shot at a makeable kick.  How in the world does that fall on the QB that they lost the game?  That is just too idiotic for words

4.  As promised, here is the rationale for why the Broncos can win on Thursday night.  The Giants are extremely susceptible to getting beaten down the field, since they lost their starting Free Safety, Kenny Phillips.  They are getting Aaron Ross back into the swing of things at CB, but he hadn't played all season, prior to this past Sunday.

With their shakiness on the back end, the Giants have blitzed a bit less than in past years, particularly in the A gaps.  Tyler Polumbus will need some help on Justin Tuck, when they're matched up, but I expect the Broncos to be able to protect Kyle Orton reasonably well.

The Giants, meanwhile, aren't getting much from their running game lately.  I also believe that their WRs don't pose a huge threat against Champ Bailey and Andre' Goodman.  David Diehl will almost certainly struggle against Elvis Dumervil, because he's a natural LG playing LT.  I feel pretty good about the defensive matchup, really.

This game is no lock, obviously, but it's one which the Broncos can win if they execute, stop taking bad penalties, and take care of the football.  John Bena had it exactly right Sunday night.  The Broncos can't beat good teams if they make mistakes, and the Giants are a good team.    A victory is very plausible, though, if they do what they need to do.

5.  I have cited several reasons lately for cutting ST&NO a little short, and I have another one.  I got a bit sidetracked from writing, because of some big news in my family, which led to some calling, texting, and emailing, but not much writing.

On Monday night, my brother Chris911's wife Ana gave birth to their first child, Elizabeth Danielle Bartlett, at 7:36 Pacific Time, in Los Angeles, CA.  Elizabeth weighed 5 pounds, 12.5 ounces, and was 17 1/4 inches long.  Mother and baby are doing well.  It occurred to me that I was in a good position to write the first birth announcement.  Please join me in congratulating Chris and Ana on the birth of the newest little Broncos fan.

Since I am decidedly not in the having kids business, I took some time to live vicariously through them, and try to feel their excitement.  Now, I am going to get back to living vicariously though myself, though.  Y'all know how I do...

6.  I am hitting the road for Connecticut on Tuesday, right after this story posts, to go eat some turkey, take a hellified tryptophan nap, and find a bar with NFL Network.  My main reason for going, though, is to play in the 38th Annual Erb-Orsini Bowl in my hometown of Norwich, CT.  I am only 32, so it predates me, but I have played in a number of them over the years.  I said I would try to go back east for it last year, but it was snowing all across Pennsylvania, and I decided at the last minute to stay in Cleveland.  I wasn't feeling 600 miles of driving in snow.  This year, I wanted to show up and play, and the weather is cooperative.  I have too much work to do to take the time, but I am going to work on Wednesday from a Tim Horton's restaurant.

The Erb-Orsini Bowl is a touch game, but it's been pretty physical and competitive in the past.  The picture below is from the 2004 game.  I am on the left.  On the right is my brother John.  He laid out for a pass early in the game, and was shaken up.  His shoulder hurt, and he said that he didn't want to catch any more passes, and that he'd just stay in and pass-block, so he did just that.  Thirty-six hours later, after not saying anything more about the topic, he decided to go to the hospital.  Turned out, he had broken his shoulder.  It's kind of the Bartlett way to suffer in silence, really, which is owed to being half Irish.

 Erb_bowl_medium

The keeper of the flame is the guy in the midde, my long-time friend Tony Orsini.  Tony, as it happens, is a huge Giants fan.  He's such a huge fan, actually, that he and his dad spent thousands of dollars to go to Arizona and get tickets for Super Bowl XLII against the mighty Patriots.  Against that 16-0 team, i would have never spent that kind of coin, but he did, and he was rewarded.  (To me, when I heard about it, it sounded like that time in 7th grade when I bet Pete Lacombe 5 bucks that Denver would beat San Francisco, straight-up, in Super Bowl XXIV, even though my allowance was $2 per week at that time.  That was an all-time dumb call.)

On Thursday morning, I am hoping for a good Erb-Orsini Bowl, where I make some big plays, and on Thursday night, for our Broncos to beat Tony's Giants.  Do any of y'all have good Turkey Bowls to play in?  Let's hear some tangential Thanksgiving football stories.  You might as well get with me on this meandering, because you never know where we might end up when the carousel stops.

7.  Retired for John Elway.

8.  The Buffalo coaching search is interesting.  We know they've reached out to Mike Shanahan, and word materialized Monday night/Tuesday morning that Bill Cowher was contacted, and that he declined to be considered.  Ralph Wilson is 91, and he wants to win now.  Unfortunately for Buffalo, he is relatively cash-poor, and the team probably doesn't stay in his family when he dies, due to estate taxation.  If it leaves his family, it almost certainly leaves Buffalo, which is a rapidly declining city.

If I were a coach looking for work, I would consider Buffalo unattractive for those reasons, as well as for the fact that they don't have a QB or any real quality on the O-Line.  They have 2 good RBs, the fantastic Lee Evans, some good CBs and a good young safety in Jairus Byrd and pass rusher in Aaron MaybinPaul Posluszny is solid, and Kyle Williams is very good, as I mentioned.  The cupboard is not totally empty talent-wise, but it's a serious personnel challenge in a boring, economically depressed cold-weather town.  The only thing they have on Cleveland, in terms of attracting free agents, is marginally better-looking uniforms.  I expect that the Bills end up hiring a first time Head Coach, after being spurned by Shanahan and others.

That's all I have for this week, friends.  I am off to get on the road for the East Coast.  I won't see any comments until 10 or 11 hours from now, but I will check them out when I get where I am going, and will answer the ones that need answering.  Have a great week, a great holiday, and a great Football Thursday.  Go Broncos!

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Thanks Ted.

Isn’t it hilarious that maybe the most entertaining game this weekend was Detroit vs Cleveland?

I thought Stafford showed some serious guts by going back out there and throwing the winning TD. Not sure if you read but as he was coming off the field after the TD, he was holding his left shoulder and shouting something that only later revealed was: “It’s out!” Meaning he had separated his left shoulder. I can’t imagine how much pain he was in as we executed that last play. Impressive.

Also, I don’t normally take pleasure in someone else’s pain, but for some reason the Mangini saga just makes me laugh.

by tunga77 on Nov 24, 2009 7:42 AM MST reply actions  

Thanks Ted

Interesting comments about Detroit. I’m not sure how big a hand Schwartz has in drafting the players, but he was my #2 choice to take over the Broncos. It seems like that team is being run with good smarts.

Thanks also for mentioning Ryan Harris. Sometimes we get ridiculous around here. The diagnosis of what’s gone wrong lately has covered everything from play calling to back-ups to schemes to psychological evaluations of the coach. Missing Ryan Harris is one of those things that’s so obvious, we fail to account for it.

by Chibronx on Nov 24, 2009 7:52 AM MST reply actions  

11-5... You sticking to that?

I’m bummed today. We’ve looked every bit like a 3-13 team the last two weeks so I have no idea how we plan to beat the Giants on Thursday. Playing like we are, we’ll struggle to beat KC and Oakland. Our offense is so damn disappointing and I’m not seeing any improvement as the players should be getting more comfortable with the scheme.

What happened to your boy Ayers. A healthy scratch? Why? Seriously? I don’t understand why Denver did that.

Great explanation on why Orton didn’t start. That is some real analysis on something even savvy fans would not recognize.

I, like you, think the world of Ryan Harris so I was hoping Polumbus would play well enough in Ryan’s absence to give Denver great trade value for a player that will never be a starter for us (Polumbus to Green Bay for a 2nd round pick). Tyler didn’t hold up his end of the bargain. At least we can keep Polumbus for depth, but he is not ready to be a full time starter.

I don’t hear you thumping your chest over your 11-5 prediction. Maybe we really are a 7-9 team, but I’m hoping for 10-6. I think worst case is 8-8 because we won’t lose home games to KC or Oakland.

The results of this weekend’s games were great for Denver. Baltimore, Pitt and Houston all lost and the Jags have a difficult stretch coming up. So far, the Jags have played the NFL’s easiest schedule and they still barely beat Buffalo at home. The Jags are pretenders and will not finish better than 8-8.

Of course, Denver won’t win another game if we continue to score 7ish points per contest.

I still hate the Alphonso Smith deal, but Jay Cutler < Orton so I’d say we got the more important trade correct.

This is my favorite website.

by McGeorge on Nov 24, 2009 8:12 AM MST reply actions  

QFT?

Unfortunately

2010 1st round pick > Alphonso Smith

You win some and you lose some

This is my favorite website.

by McGeorge on Nov 24, 2009 8:27 AM MST up reply actions  

yes QFT

quoted for truthiness !

and Smith will come back and surprise you. he has a big play in him…probably an interception when we most need it this year. you’ll see, and remember, you read it here first : )

by Jenna Talia on Nov 24, 2009 8:31 AM MST up reply actions  

We sure need a big play or five. If it comes from a guy that is usually glued to the bench, I’ll be shocked.

This is my favorite website.

by McGeorge on Nov 24, 2009 9:22 AM MST up reply actions  

I expect Smith to keep sitting on the bench behind Ty Law, a guy whose best days (which were great days) are well behind him.

And Champ, well he ain’t the Champ at this point. He is still very good, but not elite.

This is my favorite website.

by McGeorge on Nov 24, 2009 3:09 PM MST up reply actions  

champ is just a contender now

I would hope you would support who we are. Not, who we are not. Coach Norman Dale "Hoosiers"

by dmitchell624 on Nov 24, 2009 3:10 PM MST up reply actions  

Champ might be done in Denver after this season

Because his contract is coming up and he will want BIG money and he’s getting old + its the Patriot way trade away talent will they still have a couple good years left. We could get a second rounder for him.

Moreno 09 and beyond!!!

by BroncoKO on Nov 24, 2009 3:27 PM MST up reply actions  

I have the same feeling. I think this is Champ’s last season in Denver. But that would mean Alphonso Smith would have to step in as a starter next season.

Don’t know if Champ has that much trade value.

This is my favorite website.

by McGeorge on Nov 24, 2009 3:50 PM MST up reply actions  

Love the enthusiasm...

….but “when we need it most this year” was the day before yesterday, unfortunately…

by ncm42 on Nov 24, 2009 12:48 PM MST up reply actions  

still hatin on alphonso smith huh?

no way to change your mind? what about a plea to reserve judgement until next year :D

by march20 on Nov 24, 2009 8:39 AM MST up reply actions  

NFL = Not For Long. Make it happen or don’t.

When I watch Smith, I see a guy with a ceiling of a decent #2 CB, but not even close to a top shelf guy. He looked really good vs Cincy, but not so good at any other time in preseason or the regular season. The guy is also 24 years old and has four years of college football. He is not a kid like Moreno, who is only 21 years old.

Same thing with Ayers (also 24 years old). The more I watch, the lower the ceiling I see for both players. Maybe the surprise me and maybe they don’t. The evidence to suggest these guys are going to be great players is very thin at this point, the evidence suggesting neither will be a impact NFL player is starting to mount.

Notice I don’t use the word bust, “disappointed thus far” is how I describe my feelings toward both.

This is my favorite website.

by McGeorge on Nov 24, 2009 9:17 AM MST up reply actions  

mmk

can’t argue with that.

i think i need to get off the “mcdaniels is a genius and dont’ doubt anything he does” bandwagon lol

by march20 on Nov 24, 2009 1:07 PM MST up reply actions  

Alphonso is going to make a comeback

Jenna can’t be wrong can she? I hope she is right.

I would hope you would support who we are. Not, who we are not. Coach Norman Dale "Hoosiers"

by dmitchell624 on Nov 24, 2009 3:05 PM MST up reply actions  

If Genna-talia is a woman, McGeorge is really Alphonso Smith.

This is my favorite website.

by McGeorge on Nov 24, 2009 3:11 PM MST up reply actions  

I'm going to have to agree with McG here

It’s far to early to declare anything, but we haven’t seen any flashes of brillance from Smith to make me believe that ha has the ability to be a top 10 corner. He may end up being a solid nickle back but I don’t see it either anymore. And for the record I was in his corner at draft time. As for Bailey, I’ve heard some people bring up that he could be converted to a safety and after watching Bailey during the last game I wonder if that would be such a bad idea.

by T.Dot_Bronco on Nov 24, 2009 4:24 PM MST up reply actions  

oh noes!

You off the Cutler bandwagon, McG? Nooooooooooo…

But seriously, I’ve got one foot off now too. He has seriously regressed this year. You can blame his surrounding cast, but a supposed “franchise” QB should elevate his teammates play, not go down in flames with them! I am pretty disappointed in his play this year and am a bit embarrassed as the “RCA” when many of my Bears friends come up to me and say “this is the guy we got from your team?!?!”. I’m starting to run out of excuses for how he is not a “taller Rex Grossman”. =/

I was especially disappointed in him this week … after that horrible 5-pick outing, I thought he would come out strong and redeem himself. Yet, you could totally tell that the 5-picks are still fresh in his mind and he was overthrowing ppl all over the place.

On a side note on that game: anyone see the “full moon” from Devin Hester? Wow, get that guy a new belt…

by tunga77 on Nov 24, 2009 8:35 AM MST up reply actions  

I think this might cure Bears fans of their lust for finding Teh Magic Quarterback. If I had the super-fun job of restocking that roster with second-day picks next year, my head would explode. Pressing needs include: OT, OG, WR, RB, DT, DE, ILB, OLB, CB and S. Other than that, they’re totally set for the future.

by Chibronx on Nov 24, 2009 8:55 AM MST up reply actions  

lol, agreed.

Add HC, OC, and DC to that list. ;)

We’ve actually been joking that either Gould or Maynard should be team MVP at this point in their season.

by tunga77 on Nov 24, 2009 9:12 AM MST up reply actions  

I’m off the Cutler bandwagon. I got off a few months ago actually. That guy is NOT a Top 10 QB and he is a LONG WAY away from being a Top 10 QB.

So far, we got the better of Chicago in that trade, but I’m less than impressed with Ayers (our 1st of the 2 1st round picks). That 2010 1st round pick should be in the Top 15 though.

This is my favorite website.

by McGeorge on Nov 24, 2009 9:21 AM MST up reply actions  

McGeorge — I’m curious. How do you feel about Robert Ayers and Alphonso Smith? It’s hard to figure out where you stand.

by Chibronx on Nov 24, 2009 9:22 AM MST up reply actions   1 recs

You never need to guess where I stand. I’ll spell it out and provide my evidence. No hit and runs from McGeorge.

This is my favorite website.

by McGeorge on Nov 24, 2009 9:26 AM MST up reply actions  

That is what i have grown to love about you McGeorge

and it is really great to have you at MHR

I would hope you would support who we are. Not, who we are not. Coach Norman Dale "Hoosiers"

by dmitchell624 on Nov 24, 2009 3:06 PM MST up reply actions  

I was very critical of many of McD/Xanders roster moves this offseason and I took a lot of heat from MHR and guys like Jeff G for my views.

I was dead wrong about Cutler and I’ve happily admitted that. The trade was a very brave and huge offseason move and one I’m thrilled McDaniels got right. I thought it would set our franchise back years. I was way wrong.

But I was dead on right about Simms and it’s looking like I was right about Smith. I really doubt the Broncos make the Alphonso Smith trade in hindsight. They wouldn’t have signed Ty Law otherwise. I didn’t like the Ayers pick and now he is a healthy inactive for Jarvis Moss? That stinks something rotten my friend.

There was no shortage of guys at MHR thumping their chests when we were 6-0. It was great. But if you thought I’d hold my tongue on those issues I took tons of heat over, you don’t know me very well (and I post enough that you should know better). Just ignore my posts, it won’t bother me. I like to get stuff off my chest too.

I post when we are doing well and I post when we are playing poorly. I’ll be here either way, taking my medicine or dishing it out.

Go Broncos.

This is my favorite website.

by McGeorge on Nov 24, 2009 9:52 AM MST up reply actions   1 recs

I post when we are doing well and I post when we are playing poorly. I’ll be here either way, taking my medicine or dishing it out.

Right on. I like your consistency.

Character may be manifested in the great moments but it is made in the small ones -- Philip Brooks

by KaptainKirk on Nov 24, 2009 10:05 AM MST up reply actions  

Thanks Kaptain.

This is my favorite website.

by McGeorge on Nov 24, 2009 10:14 AM MST up reply actions  

re: Ayers being inactive / Catch-22 logic

There has to be seven inactives for every game (+ Brandstater), so whoever is chosen becomes a potential target for criticism despite whether they’ve ‘merited’ the criticism.

I didn’t like the Ayers pick and now he is a healthy inactive for Jarvis Moss? That stinks something rotten my friend.

I’m happy to see Moss gain some game time, and I attribute the decision to put Ayers on the inactive list as (at least) partly the result of activating Moss.

I dislike criticism of the active list when there’s no attempt to replicate the decision making process that goes into the decision. It’s just a guess on my part but I’d expect that it’s difficult to justify carrying three-deep at R-OLB without negatively impacting another position on defense or STs. Neither of the two inactives on defense — Baker and Ayers — could be considered a ST ace, so I’m not sure who you would have preferred we put on the inactive list instead. And I’m not unhappy to see Moss get the chance to rush Rivers, especially given the lack of pressure we’ve been creating lately. BTW — the number of inactives on defense was also particularly small, so we clearly weren’t under-manned. Also, it’s very hard to assess the injury situation at this point of the season since many players are ‘banged up’ but don’t appear on the injury list. This is often a sub-plot to inactive list decisions.

I think it will be interesting to see how the inactive list looks in future games. Moss didn’t contribute (except a penalty) so the future inactive list could be a harbinger of our upcoming rosters moves and acquisitions in free agency and the draft.

no goats, no glory.

by Colinski on Nov 24, 2009 3:04 PM MST up reply actions  

colinski

I noted the absence of Ayers about a half hour before kickoff, when John tweeted the inactives, and at the time, I noted that LeKevin Smith was also activated.

A more in depth study would be needed, but off hand, the return of Ryan McBean affected our roster differently than normal. i don’t know if they weren’t confident in McBean’s return, or if the gameplan called for more D-line beef (we did, after all, decline to blitz the majority of that game) but we carried an extra LDE into the game, since normally this season it has been McBean OR LeKevin Smith, not BOTH of them.

Activating Moss probably was primarily a STs decision, since he seems to be impressing in that category, and we were facing sproles in the return game. Good or unique returners and return units always seem to inspire some “strange” roster decisions in McD and Co.

On another note, I haven’t rewatched the game yet, but I don’t recall much from Moss outside of that penalty you mention, but for what it is worth, the athleticism on display during that penalty was impressive. I was particularly impressed with how low to the ground his pad level was, and with his burst. “Whoa! buddy,” was all I managed to think of the play during the game itself…

Precision in thought, concision in style, decision in life.

"That's MR.Styg..."

by Jeremy Bolander on Nov 24, 2009 11:59 PM MST up reply actions  

interesting

I wasn’t aware of Moss on STs but we carried 2-deep on defense at every position except Strong Safety, which had 3. I can understand the decision at Safety since I believe that both Barrett and Bruton are gunners.

Of the 7 inactives ( + Brandstater), 5 were on offense. Injuries account for Harris and Jordan but Lloyd, McKinley and Olsen are healthy scratches.

Because we have a large contingent of rookies and inexperienced players, many of them aren’t going to be active for many games.

We can read something into the fact that certain players are inactive but the logic may become overextended when it’s applied to healthy inactives. Activating Moss is logical and even overdue, but how do you use Ayers if you already have 2 R-OLBs? And would you want to inactivate a significant STs contributer or depth at another critical area that’s already been thinned by injuries, such as OL or DE?

I think that Ayers’ facemask penalty against Washington may have had something to do with the decision to put him on the inactive list, combined the desire to see how Moss could help the pass rush with his speed. Like you, Jeremy, I was impressed with his burst even though it earned a penalty. McDaniels seems to be mixing up the list just the way Shanahan used to do. Having a number of players come back from injuries (e.g., Barrett, Larsen) creates a need to make a decision concerning who to inactivate. We’re somewhat healthier on defense than we’ve been in a while, by some measures.

no goats, no glory.

by Colinski on Nov 25, 2009 11:11 AM MST up reply actions  

You are seriously way to hard on rookies

They are called ROOKIES for a reason. You are judging these players to early in their career but I expect this from someone like you. Smith has shown flashes of being really good. He was awesome early in the season before he got injured. He has not been the same since and is probably not %100 percent. A Smith is a smart kid and a hard worker. He will get there. Most rookie CB are not effective their first year anyways. Yes the Dolphins have two rookie CBs starting this year and playing well but no great. You are judging smith based soley on the fact that we traded a 1st round pick for him and your belief that this next draft will be deep(which no one knows if it will and you have no proof of) Robert Ayers has been impoving every week and it has been visible. His pressure in previous weeks has created sacks for other players such as DOOM. I have no idea why he was in street clothes on sunday but he has looked better each week and has shown flashes of being a Star. Last we all know how you stand on the Ayers and Smith Picks. You have been saying the same thing for the past 7 months. We get your stance, you do not need to repeat it. Because that is all you do is repeat yourself over and over again. That is why people call you out. You were no where to be seen when we were 6-0. Funny how you show up when we lose 4 in a row. The truth is most of your post are about something negative and you rarely have anything positive to say.

I will give you one thing you are consistant however it is just the same thoughs over and over again

by gnarlybroncodude on Nov 24, 2009 11:35 AM MST up reply actions  

“You were no where to be seen when we were 6-0. Funny how you show up when we lose 4 in a row.”

You are a LIAR.

This is my favorite website.

by McGeorge on Nov 24, 2009 11:50 AM MST up reply actions  

No I am not

You were around a little bit but you are posting much more frequently now

by gnarlybroncodude on Nov 24, 2009 1:02 PM MST up reply actions  

Gnarly

You’re wrong dude – you may not care for McG and “repetition”, but he’s always here

It's "just" football

by Donkhead on Nov 24, 2009 2:45 PM MST up reply actions  

I have to second that

and he has every right to talk about Smith and Ayers.
We all were excited about them but they are hugging pine for a reason my friend.
We all want them to play great, they aren’t right now.
I am more concerned with DJ though

I would hope you would support who we are. Not, who we are not. Coach Norman Dale "Hoosiers"

by dmitchell624 on Nov 24, 2009 3:08 PM MST up reply actions  

I am not saying you cannot talk about either of them

but McGeorge says the same statement every time he post. I think we get how he feels about both players. I do not think you can judge a player through 11 games. Most players take time to adjust to the NFL game. There is not a lot of players that make and immediate impact at the next level. CB is a very hard transition. For Ayers he has had to learn multiple postitions. He lined up soley at DE in college and is now being asked to play OLB, DE, and DT. It is going to take time to learn all those positions. A lot of people are saying we should have drafted Orakpo but he has a really good front 4 that helps him get the QB. It helps when you play around the best DT in the game in Haynesworth. I would still take Ayers over Orakpo any day

by gnarlybroncodude on Nov 24, 2009 6:03 PM MST up reply actions  

I disagree and I read this blog everyday

but I do not post as much as I used to. It is funny that he really has not changed but people have gone from disliking him to actuall liking him. The guy is a little better then he used and sometimes I agree with what he says but lately he is back to his old self. He may have posted a little bit during the first six game when we were winning but his posting has increased over the last 4 weeks. Personally I think he likes to come here and talk negative about our players and coach. He has said the same thing about ayers and smith since we drafted them. Dude we get it, you do not like them. However you cannot label a player a bust after 11 games. He loves saying “I told you so” even though is opinion on the subject still can not be proved. Yes they are not playing great but I never expect a rookie to step in a be a star and not make mistakes right away. Those are unrealistic expectations in my book.

by gnarlybroncodude on Nov 24, 2009 6:12 PM MST up reply actions  

I made a fan post just for you Buddy. What McGeorge likes about the 2009 Denver Broncos.

Enjoy.

This is my favorite website.

by McGeorge on Nov 24, 2009 8:06 PM MST up reply actions  

It's the nature of the beast, gnarly

When you’re on a 4-game losing streak like the kind we are on, fans tend to focus on the negatives and the positives are few and far between. When you’re on a 6-game winning streak, fans tend to focus in on the positives and on how we’re going to the SuperBowl.

I can’t speak for whether or not McGeorge was on here spewing positives in the first 6 weeks, but I do know that he has since jumped off the Cutler bandwagon and onto the Orton one… and that says something given his feelings of the trade during the offseason.

by tunga77 on Nov 25, 2009 8:45 AM MST up reply actions  

OK?

Not sure that I deserved that…

by BroncoSense72 on Nov 24, 2009 2:26 PM MST up reply actions  

Good thing you weren't in Roosevelt's cabinet...

…after the first year of the North African fiasco. I mean that light-heartedly…but jeepers creepers, isn’t Week 10 of the season a little early to be closing the book on a bunch of 21 – 22 year olds?

Champ Bailey was such a ‘bust’ in his first couple of years that Washington happily gave him and a 2nd rounder for Portis. They wanted to lynch Charley Casserly over in Houston over the immensely disappointing Mario Williams. DeAngelo Williams was, for a time, at least, a threat to John Fox’s job in Carolina….I could go on and on with this….

by PredominantlyOrange on Nov 24, 2009 4:15 PM MST up reply actions  

precisely

Too early, they haven’t played nearly enough to call them anything yet. Like it or not, some coaches keep rookies on the bench. Jerry Sloan of the Jazz has taken a ton of heat for this over the years, but there is a point to it. He wants the kids to transition into the new level of the game, playing the type of game the team wants to play.

Plus I don’t think 3-4 OLB or CB are the easiest positions to transition to as a rookie. I think the easiest are most definitely RB, 3-4 ILB or 4-3 LB.

by poorboywilly on Nov 24, 2009 4:29 PM MST up reply actions  

We drafted some old rookies this season. Smith and Ayers are both already 24. For reference, Ryan Harris is also 24

This is my favorite website.

by McGeorge on Nov 24, 2009 4:55 PM MST up reply actions  

Agreed. He looks lost this year... =/

I will still root for him and a turnaround in 2010. For the sake of all my Bears friends, I really hope he doesn’t turn out to be another Sexy Rexy.

by tunga77 on Nov 24, 2009 9:35 AM MST up reply actions  

Are you?

Based on the regression during the 2008 season, I disagree.

To be accurate, you were just better two years ago than you are today.

This is my favorite website.

by McGeorge on Nov 24, 2009 10:13 AM MST up reply actions  

Is it true you asked to get traded

cause your head wouldn’t fit in Invesco anymore?

I would hope you would support who we are. Not, who we are not. Coach Norman Dale "Hoosiers"

by dmitchell624 on Nov 24, 2009 3:09 PM MST up reply actions   1 recs

That was a side of Hester we had not seen before :)

A Bears player said before the game that it was time for the team’s stars to come out and shine. After the game a Chicago Tribune blogger wrote: “We didn’t see any stars but a full moon was spotted.”

by warmick on Nov 24, 2009 10:43 AM MST up reply actions  

Cutler was not all that great last year, either...

…Shanahan just ran an offense that guaranteed JC got his stats…all of them between the 20s. Except INTs, as most of those DID come in the red zone!

by ncm42 on Nov 24, 2009 12:50 PM MST up reply actions  

He was **a lot** better than this year's version

He did have a huge hand in several of our mid-season wins… I’m particularly thinking of games against ATL, Cleveland, and the Jets.

by tunga77 on Nov 24, 2009 12:58 PM MST up reply actions  

Right...

And Orton did not have a hand in wins against Dallas, New England and San Diego…..yep…..Cutler way better…whatever!

Those that cant coach, compete!
Failing to plan is planning to fail.
All I want is 53 Rod Smiths. Is that asking too much????
"Peyton Hillis didn’t rip the sleeves off his jersey, they flew off out of fear."
Calijoefornia.

by boydy2669 on Nov 24, 2009 1:02 PM MST up reply actions  

What the... ???

I’m just talking about Cutler’s regression this year.

I think you took my comment out of context with the greater discussion, boydy (read starting from above). I was just offering my assessment of Cutler and the Bears… about how Cutler is lot worse this year with the Bears than he was last year with us.

by tunga77 on Nov 24, 2009 1:06 PM MST up reply actions  

Not to speak for tunga,,,

…but I think tunga was saying the 2007 Cutler was a lot better than the 2009 Cutler, not that the 2007 Cutler was a lot better than 2009 Orton. Right?

by ncm42 on Nov 24, 2009 1:06 PM MST up reply actions  

Sorry man...my apologies.....I agree with ya!

Sorry again mate!

Those that cant coach, compete!
Failing to plan is planning to fail.
All I want is 53 Rod Smiths. Is that asking too much????
"Peyton Hillis didn’t rip the sleeves off his jersey, they flew off out of fear."
Calijoefornia.

by boydy2669 on Nov 24, 2009 1:26 PM MST up reply actions  

He may have been better than this year's version...

…but I have never seen the “All-World” cutler that so many seem to have seen. He’s got a big arm and above average mobility, but when has he ever won anything? I hate to come across as a little pissy, but we all made excuses for his mistakes and arrogance and horrible attitude when he was here. The MSM continues to do so, and I have no idea why. From the outside looking in, he has always struck me as a selfish player who has a sense of entitlement that he has not come close to earning. Just sticks in my craw, that’s all.

If he is “regressing,” I wonder how much of that is because of the decline in talent at skill positions and O-line, and how much of it is because of the coaching change. Shanahan seemed to coddle him, but also to keep him in line. Now that he is “the savior” in CHI-town, one almost gets the sense he is untouchable when it comes to the coaches. Is that leading him to play more recklessly, and to be even more whiny and bitchy with refs, coaches, other players?

by ncm42 on Nov 24, 2009 1:05 PM MST up reply actions  

You're nitpicking my comments, sir.

Debating Cutler is “all world” is another discussion altogether. Debating his attitude and his demeanor or whether or not he is an actual leader on the field is another argument altogether.

All I’m saying is that he has seriously regressed from last year. He was able to help lift our team to wins last year. And then you can just look at pure stats… in 2.5 years with us, he only had one 3-pick game… this year with the Bears… in 10 games, he’s already had one 3-pick, one 4-pick and one 5-pick game! Regression in a major major way.

Again, as I said above, you can blame the supporting cast differential all you want but in my eyes, the worst part is that in my eyes he is not elevating his teammates play on offense. Instead, he plays worse the worse everyone else is playing. And as one of the few remaining fans of his on this site, I find that really disappointing…

by tunga77 on Nov 24, 2009 1:13 PM MST up reply actions  

I'm not trying to nitpick, but...

…I still have a basic problem with the thought that he is ‘regressing.’ He has always been very hot and cold. Your stats with the 3,4,5 pick games are very compelling, so from a pure numbers standpoint I guess you’re right, and he is regressing.

I guess I’m just taking more of an overall view. I don’t think he’s regressing at all. I think he is exactly the player he’s always been. Tons of potential, lacking the maturity and mental toughness to put it all together. He had a hand in several big wins last year, and he had a hand in several big losses — fumbles, picks, mentally self-destructing. The debacle in Detroit springs to mind, even before he was ‘injured.’ And when you say “he plays worse the worse everyone else plays,” I would also say that’s something he’s always done. At times last year, him and B-Marsh seemed to be having a ‘fumble-off,’ seeing who could have more or more costly fumbles.

I think this is a basic like/dislike of the guy, and both of us can point to any number of factors in support of our position. And I will be completely honest and say that I STILL hate the decision to bench Plummer midseason for Cutler…and I know it’s pathetic that I can’t let it go! : )

Either way, big up to you tunga77. Even if I have never cared for him, I admire the hell out of someone who remains loyal to the players they like…

by ncm42 on Nov 24, 2009 1:47 PM MST up reply actions  

Thanks man... you too (for your Plummer loyalty)

I too was a big Plummer fan and thought he got a bad rap. I also thought his portrayal in 5 Seconds of Panic was hilarious. He sounds like someone you’d want to “go to battle with”. Finally, the fact that he retired young, healthy, eschewing several million to go to the Bucs, but instead retreated to the hills, got married to some hottie, and plays handball competitively is all the more to admire a man who marches to his own tune (and not in a bad way).

You’re exactly right. We each could point to specific examples to support our argument and I can definitely see your perspective. I just look it slightly differently. Just like they say: to each their own.

by tunga77 on Nov 24, 2009 1:57 PM MST up reply actions   2 recs

Don't forget the beard and wild hair.

I miss Plummer, oh well, time to let that one go.

Mariners/D Broncos/BSU Broncos fan in Seattle

by appleshampoo on Nov 24, 2009 4:20 PM MST up reply actions  

Especially when you consider the beard...

…started as Plummer’s private tribute to Pat Tillman.

by ncm42 on Nov 24, 2009 5:25 PM MST up reply actions  

omg, how about the mustache...

his espn profile pic still cracks me up. someone should use it as their avatar here…

by tunga77 on Nov 25, 2009 8:46 AM MST up reply actions  

Heh

Done, and DONE

Mariners/D Broncos/BSU Broncos fan in Seattle

by appleshampoo on Nov 25, 2009 6:47 PM MST up reply actions  

+1

….yet again reaffirming my love for MHR

by ncm42 on Nov 24, 2009 5:25 PM MST up reply actions  

Ah shucks...

Good talk ncm… I feel like we’ve had a few in recent weeks.

/e-fist-bump

by tunga77 on Nov 25, 2009 8:48 AM MST up reply actions   1 recs

Also, I'm seriously asking...

Is the drastic increase in INTs at all attributable to the loss of Shanahan as something of a guiding hand? I would be very curious to see how hard the Bears chase Shanahan this off-season. I hate to say it, but it seems a perfect fit. Not to borrow trouble, but I wonder if we would start to lose Marshall, Scheffler, etc in free agency?

by ncm42 on Nov 24, 2009 1:50 PM MST up reply actions  

Chasing Shanahan Requires Spending Money

And the McCaskey family hates spending money. There is no way they’ll do it.

by Chibronx on Nov 24, 2009 2:07 PM MST up reply actions  

Agreed. Shanny might be too expensive for the McCaskey's

However… Bears fans said the same thing about the team getting Cutler in the offseason, so I wouldn’t be totally shocked if they did hire Shanny.

by tunga77 on Nov 24, 2009 2:11 PM MST up reply actions  

Mind a perspective?

I’ve been ambling around the ‘Net and listening to the different comments on Cutler. I honestly don’t see him as regressing as much as you do – he was doing all of this last season. He had a better line, better receivers and a blank check to do whatever he wanted, but as far as his play, most of it is the same.

Locking on to primary receivers – check. Ignoring open receivers underneath – check. Not using Forte as an outlet – check (just fill in the name of whoever was playing RB for Denver at that time for 2008 – the pattern still matches). Throwing into double and triple coverage – check. Overthrowing open receivers – check.

The only area that I really agree with you on the idea of regression is his mechanics, which I’d have to say have gone from sometimes poor to “Who on earth is teaching you, Son?” He’s always tended to throw from bad positions, but I’ve never seen quite the same level of absurdity that I did in watching the Sunday night game. The flat-footed, frozen-shouldered overhand flip that he used a few times was a marvel. He’s not aiming his hips or his shoulders, using his whole body, stepping into his throws or following through well, but other than that, I think that he’s doing Ok. ;-)

Moreno/Buckhalter in '09

by Doc Bear on Nov 24, 2009 4:16 PM MST up reply actions  

Cutler looked like a Top 5 QB for the 1st third of the 2008 season. He didn’t look nearly as good by December.

This is my favorite website.

by McGeorge on Nov 24, 2009 4:57 PM MST up reply actions  

I dont' remember the exact numbers

But I would argue that, after the first game against the Raiders, he was not scoring enough (and was turning it over in the red zone too much) to be Top 5.

by ncm42 on Nov 24, 2009 5:28 PM MST up reply actions  

"Who on earth is teaching you, son?"

Exactly.

Precision in thought, concision in style, decision in life.

"That's MR.Styg..."

by Jeremy Bolander on Nov 25, 2009 12:03 AM MST up reply actions  

Well...

This is essentially what ncm is saying above as well. We concluded that we see each other’s perspective and understand… we just choose to look at it differently.

I see what you’re saying as well… but to me, he’s regressed. He’s just not making the same types of plays he was making last year. Again, people discredit his play alot here these days, but I can point to 3 games in the middle of last year where he played very very well. @ATL, @Clev, and @NYJ. He was stepping into his throws, throwing well from the pocket short and long, extending plays with his legs and making plays downfield when the plays broke down. He was a huge part of those 3 wins… I really don’t think you can deny him that.

His TD pass to win the ATL game comes to mind; he makes a solid move to get out of trouble in the pocket, throws a strike into the tightest of windows to Graham for the TD and the winning points. Against Cleveland, he essentially took over the game in the 2nd half. Against the JETs, he had several amazing passes to Eddie and Marshall.

This year? He just plain looks awful… Again, last week’s game was a big example. He overthrew 3 sure fire TD’s and those are passes he makes a majority of the time.

Anyways, guys, I didn’t really want to get into a huge debate as to whether or not he was a good player for us. That’s been covered ad nauseum. My only point is that I feel like he’s not playing nearly as well this year as he was last year. As like the only person left on this site who doesn’t hate Cutler’s guts, can you just let me have this?

(I’m kidding… well, sorta)

=P

by tunga77 on Nov 25, 2009 9:05 AM MST up reply actions   2 recs

grin

Fair enough. I’m in agreement on those three games, by the way. It’s just that after that, we kept playing game and Jay, well…..

Good luck with that!

Moreno/Buckhalter in '09

by Doc Bear on Nov 25, 2009 11:14 AM MST up reply actions  

We're not letting you have a thing!

Because you earned it, my man…you earned it!

by ncm42 on Nov 25, 2009 8:06 PM MST up reply actions  

Before the bye, we were 6-0 and it seemed 13-3 battle cry was not 100% coolaid. Broncos were not favored to win games, but they were winning. Then during the bye week, the whole country jumped on Denver bandwagon. But the team jumped off. After the bye, we keep getting worse. We expected wins, but losses came. Bad losses, all 4 of them.

Looking at where things stand now, Broncos can not be favored in any of the remaining games. If current play continues, I expect the team to win one more fluky game, because KC can be counted on to disintegrate once in 2 games.

This is a severe test for a rebuilding team and rookie HC. But I expect that current trend DOES NOT continue. This team is better then that. We just have to go through growing pains, which I fully expected before the season. It’s just that the trouble came in the middle of the season instead of the beginning. Go Broncos! Playoffs are within our reach.

by si_ice on Nov 24, 2009 1:30 PM MST up reply actions  

I am embarrassed by our offense

and if I am McDaniels must be nearly insane

I would hope you would support who we are. Not, who we are not. Coach Norman Dale "Hoosiers"

by dmitchell624 on Nov 24, 2009 3:04 PM MST up reply actions  

Good stuff!

gotta get to work!!! lol

Verbose in style, dispersion of thought, procrastination in life.

The guy formerly known as ZAPPA

by Tim Lynch on Nov 24, 2009 8:18 AM MST reply actions  

thanks TB !

echo Tunga77’s thoughts re: Lions/Browns which was an amazing game

thanks very much for 2(a+b) re: our running game or lack thereof. makes a whole lot more sense now and I appreciate immensely someone knowledgeable explaining it to me, as it has been frustrating wanting the Broncos to run the ball and not understanding why we haven’t been doing so was killing me.

couldn’t disagree with you more about the onsides kick call but i know everyone is sick to death of hearing about it so i won’t take it any further. you’re wrong i swear though. nyaaaah !

lots here to digest this morning ! good luck in your Turkey Bowl ! mmmmmm tryptophan

by Jenna Talia on Nov 24, 2009 8:20 AM MST reply actions  

It was crazy...

We were at a bar here in Chicago, and they turned all TV’s to the Lions game. I was a bit peeved b/c I was trying to watch the Broncos game at the same time, but I was fine with it after the entire bar (which were 99% Bears fans) really got into the Lions last drive. When the Browns got called for that PI in the endzone and when they scored, the entire bar went nuts. It was hilarious and super fun, high five-ing random dudes for the… Lions! I think everyone has started to feel sorry for the Lions and root for them… of course, the poor Bears fan don’t have much else to root for these days. lol…

by tunga77 on Nov 24, 2009 8:30 AM MST up reply actions  

Whats your take on McBath's play

Im stuck in Texas so I was watching the game on a horribly small screen on my computer, and I had a hard time seeing what too much was going on. McBath seemed a little raw, but definitely in position on a few plays.

Never give in, never give in

by alacumba!! on Nov 24, 2009 8:26 AM MST reply actions  

not a big football brain

but he seemed to keep most of the game in front of him. made some solid open field tackles, one in particular on floyd that goodman whiffed on sticks out. the kid is a huge upgrade over what was festering in the secondary last season.

"I just looked across the huddle to see the guys in the huddle with me: great offensive line, great talent at wide receiver, great tight ends, great running backs. If we execute and play the way that we should, it should be tough to stop us."
-K.O.

by Jay Fin Anderson on Nov 24, 2009 9:14 AM MST up reply actions  

I think you're being too kind to reporters...

You say:

I think that most of them only have a surface-level knowledge of what is going on in a football game.

I could abide that. The problem I see is that at the local level they say stuff a circus monkey could debunk. They do so with the sole purpose of being inflammatory and feeding the negative audience in order to keep any audience. Woody Paige, especially, was patently ridiculous at times in the offseason (I stopped reading any Denver people before the season started, so I’m in no place to comment on anything they might of said recently). He was so wrong at times that I could only conclude, based on the fact that he’s been covering the NFL for so many years now, that he was willfully being wrong in order to be malicious. Thats far less acceptable than just being ignorant.

At the national level, the MSM guys dumb it down in order to keep it in a tidy box. I was absolutely in awe of Charley Casserly’s recent mid-season review of the Big Trade. Here’s a former NFL GM claiming that Denver’s offensive struggles were essentially solely related to Kyle Orton’s arm strength and that Jay Cutler’s problems were everybody else fault— if not a little bit about Cutler’s misguided sense of nobility (he just thinks he has to carry the day). He confidently concluded that Chicago still won the trade. I don’t think you can say that Casserly only has a surface understanding of football. Again, this is far worse to me than just ignorance.

It has actually become increasingly difficult to follow the NFL, because when you no longer view the people who have the best access to information as either credible or honest, you can’t really believe that you’ve learned something, gained any insight or even been provided with solid information. Its sort of sad and pathetic, IMO. Thank God for Sunday Ticket, shortcuts, NFP, and most the analysis at MHR.

by PredominantlyOrange on Nov 24, 2009 9:13 AM MST reply actions   1 recs

That Stupid Casserly Column Exemplifes a Rampant Media Disease

He started by analyzing the whole trade, Cutler for Orton and draft picks. Then he plucked, out of the air, the stupid criterion that the QB swap was all that mattered. Only after managing to yawn his way past three high draft picks does he get down to the business of botching the QB comparison.

I won’t give examples of how this works elsewhere, because they all involve politics and are liable to be misunderstood. But you see it all the time: A complex, moving issue being boiled down to a mano a mano conflict so that a winner can be declared. It is so achingly stupid.

by Chibronx on Nov 24, 2009 9:29 AM MST up reply actions  

This offseason was painfully enlightening to me.

I always thought I was at least getting solid information, even when I didn’t agree with the analysis all the time. After this off-season, I’ve figured out that you can’t trust a thing these guys (MSM) say. The whole JC saga told me that these guys won’t even take the time to bring together all the strings before they fall in line and run with the easiest and most popular (by that, I mean among one another) thing to say. I don’t know if its an aversion to risk— they figure if they fall in line, they can maintain credibility by claiming ‘everybody’ was wrong— or if its just plain laziness. Either way, it offends my sensibilities.

by PredominantlyOrange on Nov 24, 2009 10:12 AM MST up reply actions  

Nice rant!

Mariners/D Broncos/BSU Broncos fan in Seattle

by appleshampoo on Nov 24, 2009 4:25 PM MST up reply actions  

totally agree

yea, the broncos lost this game because of the inability to execute but as you stated, probably one of the worst officiated games i’ve seen in a long time, the knowshon TD would’ve changed the game completely, and seems to me that the haterz are still growing, just more motivation to prove them wrong!!!

by LiloFue on Nov 24, 2009 9:48 AM MST reply actions  

Peter King offer zero analysis

You are not competing with him. He is terrible.

Mo, you can trade anything of mine.

by njnick on Nov 24, 2009 9:48 AM MST reply actions  

PK is horrible

KSK loves to rip on him and it is teh ahhsim.

by tunga77 on Nov 24, 2009 9:54 AM MST up reply actions  

Peter King does a decent job. Ted is better.

This is my favorite website.

by McGeorge on Nov 24, 2009 9:54 AM MST up reply actions  

King focuses on 6 stories throughout the year.

That is all.

Mo, you can trade anything of mine.

by njnick on Nov 24, 2009 9:56 AM MST up reply actions  

And that is probably in his job description.

This is my favorite website.

by McGeorge on Nov 24, 2009 10:14 AM MST up reply actions  

That’s the sad truth. It’s the owners and marketers who have turned journalism to a joke. The reporters just follow orders in the hopes of clinging to their jobs.

by Chibronx on Nov 24, 2009 10:19 AM MST up reply actions  

And that is why you are here with the rest of us.

This is my favorite website.

by McGeorge on Nov 24, 2009 10:39 AM MST up reply actions  

Why did the D scheme change

I’m confused as to why we don’t blitz anymore? We were doing major damage with the delayed blitzing, but now we seem to be playing base coverage and soft on the corners.

I’m getting tired of seeing Champ come from 3 yards off to make a tackle after a 10 yard catch.

by hallandnash on Nov 24, 2009 9:51 AM MST reply actions  

Thanks for the elaborate post!

It’s killing me – the (almost) complete ineptitude to call a fair game at Mile High!!!! (let alone any other game We’re playing in)

G.) Those two Unsportsmanlike Conduct calls were entirely manufactured calls in an attempt to remove Eddie as a threat on the ensuing kickoffs! Talk about blaitant… Then there was the (fumble by Knowshon) should-be-Touchdown….. The Steelers game wasn’t quite this bad, but close….

K.) And the onside kick call was BRILLIANT!
- Josh Barrett almost had that @#$&er!!!! And you know if we would have recovered it, people would be hailing the ‘genius’ call that it was… Dam#it Josh (not Coach), that totally went through your arms…. I think (and hope) this short week will be all the more we need to get back on the winning streak -

C’mon, let’s have a little early Christmas gift this Thanksgiving and shut the Giants DOWN. Three turnovers in Our favor and six sacks (two for Elvis!) – those are my high hopes for Thursday (and of course, the W).

Thanks again Ted, got my positive vibes a-churnin’

First team to three consecutive SB wins!!!! and then some, right? I think four and someone else oughtta have a 'fair' shot : )

by PearlJamBroncoGFunk on Nov 24, 2009 10:11 AM MST reply actions  

Yeah, I don't blame McD

for trying to “Take” the momentum, on the Onside kick. It would have been deemed brilliant had it worked.

Character may be manifested in the great moments but it is made in the small ones -- Philip Brooks

by KaptainKirk on Nov 24, 2009 10:20 AM MST up reply actions  

BTW, I started ranting about our 2009 draft picks a week or two ago and now this issue is the or a subject of fan posts and staff writer analysis. Someone is reading and digesting what I write.

That call was the same kind of call I’d make when playing John Madden 95 on Sega when I was 13 years old. It was angry coaching because we didn’t get the redzone TD. Why not just go for it on 4th and goal instead of try a gimmick play with your sorry as sorry can be special teams.

I’d bet on Orton and Marshall before I’d roll the dice with Priefer’s boys.

That onside kick was just another in a disturbing trend of poor coaching decisions over the last four weeks. No surprise at all that is failed.

This is my favorite website.

by McGeorge on Nov 24, 2009 10:43 AM MST up reply actions  

Sorry about the 1st sentence. didn’t belong in that post.

This is my favorite website.

by McGeorge on Nov 24, 2009 10:43 AM MST up reply actions  

I think you are right

about the angry part. That is surely the reason.

Character may be manifested in the great moments but it is made in the small ones -- Philip Brooks

by KaptainKirk on Nov 24, 2009 10:15 PM MST up reply actions  

+1

…on the onside kick…although I think you’re being a little harsh with the whole ‘disturbing trend’ thing.

But I was disappointing in elements beyond the onside kick related to coaching against SD. I think it was a panic move (the kick) and that the coaches have a tendency to try out-scheme rather than put faith in the players. They are getting too cute at times, IMO, and going away from stuff that has worked or was working in a particular game.

by PredominantlyOrange on Nov 24, 2009 10:46 AM MST up reply actions  

I don't agree

Barrett had that kick, literally slipped through his arms….. I believe, to quote Mr. McDaniels – it was about execution -

Prater kicked it PERFECT, which I’m sure they’ve practiced the exact circumstances of it being a ‘surprise’ on-side kick, and We were first to touch it, if Barrett executed, We had the ball on a successful attempt, and who knows form there, but I really thought it was a well placed call in a game that was obviously slipping away from Us.

To put it plainly, that would have worked in this particular game at that particular moment, had one player not missed his assignment, as it were.

The only thing that worried me about the on-side kick attempt was – I’m like, hoping McD really hasn’t ‘showed all his cards’ yet, y’know? That did seem a little desperate (very minimal seeming though, mind you). But you must admit, perfect timing for it and Mr. Prater certainly executed it well.

First team to three consecutive SB wins!!!! and then some, right? I think four and someone else oughtta have a 'fair' shot : )

by PearlJamBroncoGFunk on Nov 24, 2009 12:57 PM MST up reply actions  

Prater has been really great on kickoffs lately. The onside kick was money good. I wish we scored more points so he could kick it more often.

This is my favorite website.

by McGeorge on Nov 24, 2009 3:06 PM MST up reply actions  

LoL

Know what you mean – At least we know he won’t be tired from too much kicking this time (at least, he ought not to fatigue like last season)

First team to three consecutive SB wins!!!! and then some, right? I think four and someone else oughtta have a 'fair' shot : )

by PearlJamBroncoGFunk on Nov 24, 2009 3:26 PM MST up reply actions  

Thanks Ted

I have to agree with your points on the Lions. When I broke down their week 5 game vs the Stillers, I came away with same conclusions. Stafford didn’t play in that game, but Pettigrew and especially Louis Delmas looked good. Even Bronco dud Marquand Manuel had a good (Career?) game.

Character may be manifested in the great moments but it is made in the small ones -- Philip Brooks

by KaptainKirk on Nov 24, 2009 10:16 AM MST reply actions  

Steelers ST's worse than ours?

It’s a funny league… a few short weeks ago, everyone was pronouncing the Steelers king again. Now, they are all sorts of bad… including a STs unit that has allowed 4 kickoff return for TD’s in 5 games.

And get this… they have allowed return TDs (kickoff, fumbles, or int’s) in 8 consecutive games!!!

by tunga77 on Nov 24, 2009 10:23 AM MST reply actions  

Being less excitable does not stem from being an objective analyst, Ted Bartlett

Rather, it is a result of maturity. For every year that goes by, sport results seem that much less important. You continue to savor victories and regret defeats but the lasting effect gets shorter and shorter. On a separate note, I totally agree that Lindsay Jones and Jeff Legwold are the only DP writers worth reading.

by warmick on Nov 24, 2009 10:53 AM MST reply actions  

Once again...

I want to say that I enjoy this column far more than Peter King’s.

Don't argue with fools. It's how they reproduce.

by TheMastermind on Nov 24, 2009 10:56 AM MST reply actions  

Congrats...

on becoming an uncle and to your brother, an amazing journey…though sometimes I can imagine being an uncle has a lot of perks.

I want to thank you for your posts and insight, I am impressed with how you break down so many games and names (with the 22 month old don’t have the time to see much more than Broncos games now).

Also, you are spot on regarding so many things related to games. I was amazed by the officiating in the game (funny how a team can be flagged for 15 yards and there is no replay of what actually happened), when the “fumble” happened Mike and I saw it and said right away “that is a touchdown” but from the calls in the game and this season I knew they wouldn’t change the call. Sad, really sad, that an official can have so much impact on a game.

In that vein, why did the Broncos change their Defensive scheme after winning 6 games? I was screaming all during the game a few weeks ago at how the DBs were playing 10-15 yards off the WR and the WR were picking up 5-8 yards/play because they WEREN’T COVERED. It doesn’t make any sense and bothers me when McD is saying the players aren’t getting it done when the coaching staff aren’t putting them in position to perform.

Enjoy the flag game, and hopefully no broken bones this time.

There is no I in team.

by LovedemBroncs on Nov 24, 2009 11:21 AM MST reply actions  

We call it an existential crises...

…younger folks call it “gettin’ older!” Our college-selves would laugh at us right now, but maturity is indeed creeping up on us, my friend!

-JD

by MadAuthor on Nov 24, 2009 12:14 PM MST reply actions  

I was also not very excitable during the SD game. I have been rather up and down for all the previous games, but after the three game losing streak I was just drained. I was tired of getting up for the games to see us lay a giant, ridiculous egg. Especially after Washington, I was thinking “here’s a game we can just tune up a bit and get ourselves going again” but instead we let the ’Skins do the tuning up.

So for San Diego, especially with the fact that it looked very unlikely that Orton would start, I really didn’t let myself get very excited for the game. The plus of this is it really wasn’t a crushing loss for me. Just “oh well, that’s San Diego vs. Denver again”.

I’m glad you brought up the Hochstein’s-knee-in-the-endzone concept. That’s exactly what I was pointing out when the play happened, but I knew they would never reverse that call. I guess spatial relationships aren’t “incontrovertible evidence”.

Let’s beat New York!

by poorboywilly on Nov 24, 2009 1:01 PM MST reply actions  

Connecticut ?

My parents grew up in Norwich, then moved to Guilford on the shoreline, where I was raised. The sounds and smells of the ocean are still vivid in my mind, even from thousands of miles away in Colorado.

To accomplish great things, we must not only act, but also DREAM; not only plan, but also BELIEVE.

by Broncobh on Nov 24, 2009 2:15 PM MST reply actions  

I grew up in Norwich

That’s where I am as I type this. Small world.

"I am not one of those who think that coming in second or third is winning." -- Robert F. Kennedy

by Ted Bartlett on Nov 24, 2009 8:30 PM MST up reply actions  

Might have heard it here first...

about winning by two TDs, but I’ve been predicting that the Titans will go 10-6 and Kern will go the regular season undefeated. So that means that SD will have to lose to the Titans. With a player like Kern, how can you lose?

by NDbronco on Nov 24, 2009 4:52 PM MST reply actions  

I must not be as mature as you guys

I started drinking about noon (PST), took a shot after the Simms fumble, and after the game was over kicked it up a notch to drown the pain. Made for an interesting Sunday night and a hellacious Monday…was going to do a shot for every Simms turnover, thankfully didn’t have to follow through on any more.

Mariners/D Broncos/BSU Broncos fan in Seattle

by appleshampoo on Nov 24, 2009 4:58 PM MST reply actions  

re: OL
i. I put a great deal of the Broncos’ recent offensive struggles on the absence of Ryan Harris. They haven’t been able to protect nearly as well as they did in the first six games. That’s not exactly meant to be an indictment of Tyler Polumbus, who is fine as a backup OT and special teams player. It’s just recognizing the fact that Harris is one of the best RTs in the game. The timing of the offensive struggles aren’t coincidental. It looks like Harris is still hurt, but let’s hope he can play on the other side of the Giants game.

I’ve been focusing on the OL lately. It’s an area where we’ve underachieved relative to last year, and I see it as partly a problem of unit cohesion that’s been exacerbated by injuries. Moreover, that is not to say that there haven’t been performance related problems, too.

The OL is an area that many Bronco draftniks have focused on addressing in the next draft. I, too, have focused on that area, but I think realism is warranted. This is why I’d like to see us address the interior-OL in free agency, even though we have a lot of other players we’ll be negotiating with.

The (largely unwritten) story of this season could be offensive inconsistency. And part of that story is on the OL. Many critics have once again focused on the defense, perhaps out of habit, but the offense has rarely produced at a level that would exempt it from criticism.

There are several issues on the OL. I think we’d be well-served if we found a help at RT but the main concern is interior-OL. Here’s a quick breakdown: (right to left)

RT – backup qualtiy (at least), preferably a quality run blocker. A combination G/T might work well, if available.

RG – starter quality (high priority). Kuper might be a good candidate to move to Left Guard.

C – starter quality (high priority). This could be good place for a FA. Logan Mankins has been mentioned (he’s a G now), but it’s still ideal to find a veteran C who could anchor the OL for years to come. It’s not that a G isn’t also a desirable acquisition but fixing C first seems to be a more workable solution.

LG – the writing appears to be on the wall for Hamilton, and his salary makes it almost a certainty that we’ll see someone else. I’d advocated keeping Hamilton as a backup C/G (primarily at C) but that’s doubtful now. Kuper seems to be the answer here, with a high priority placed on finding a R-G in the draft (~2nd round).

LT – no real need, Polumbus is adequate for a backup. Harris is also backup here, so finding a RT is a higher — albeit not too high — priority.

It may seem odd that I’ve focused on the OL but it’s an area that makes the rest of the offense look bad when it’s not performing well. Our Tackles are obviously not the problem but even they can look bad when there are breakdowns in the interior. We were lulled into believing that the OL was almost untouchable last year, but the truth is that we fixed Center temporarily and the Guard project had been addressed but not successfully. I see the problem collectively rather than primarily as an individual problem. Problems spill over onto other positions. Defenses that overload their pass rush up the middle create problems that other interior-OLs can’t help solve if they’re also struggling. Also, a single blocker struggling with a block doesn’t doom a run play but more than one failed block can. Problems often spill over to neighboring positions. My focus has been on the C-RG area because it’s easier to change two neighboring positions (IMO) and it’s easier to fix the OL by adding some beef to the right side of the OL. It’s also an area that we can ‘draft for’ earlier in the draft (2nd round) and expect to fix if the talent/experience are already present in the other areas of the OL. Notice that I"m still advocating bringing a veteran because it minimizes the transition problems.

no goats, no glory.

by Colinski on Nov 24, 2009 5:22 PM MST reply actions   3 recs

Bravo, Colinski

Solid synopsis. I’ve also been looking at this question lately – it has seemed that our decline as a team was convergent with the injury to Harris as well as Hamilton’s increasing problems. Certainly there are other issues and the problems on defense are also puzzling, but as I’m starting to watch more and more film, the breakdowns on the Oline have stopped drives, cost us points, worn on the QB as the sack count rises and lost us our running game more and more often. It seems to be at the heart of the problems on offense. Again — there are other problems, yet this seems at the heart of the matter.

I’ve come to many of the same conclusions. Center is most likely the key to the upcoming offseason. McDaniels is trying to build a winner ‘on the fly’ so to speak – the team will draft to develop a nucleus of young, upcoming players, but as he did with Hochstein on the O-line as well as Holliday and Smith on the defensive line, Josh likes to use proven players. Given a choice, it seems that he will prefer veterans who have been successful in the past over young players like Olsen on the O and Baker on the D. That’s consistent with the player philosophy in NE, so it makes sense. If such a center is out there, a veteran who’s been successful on another team, I’d expect the Broncos to make a move to procure him.

I’m less happy with Polumbus – I’ll watch more, but it looked at first glance like he was used pretty badly at times. I haven’t heard a peep about Olsen, but that’s pretty normal for a 1xt year guard. If he’s playing well, he might move up to the starting line this offseason. Would you move Kuper? I hadn’t thought of that, but it’s a sensible move if he’s equally talented there. Hochstein doesn’t seem to be a long-term answer – perhaps a backup, but when you need the backups to play well, you’ve got a problem.

Interesting choice, desiring a veteran at guard. My own tendency would be to draft for the RG, since Kuper can theoretically move, but I think that you’re right – if McD can find a JAG with the bulk he seems to want, that might be helpful. Would your theory be that we would take more of the ‘skill’ players in the draft?

Moreno/Buckhalter in '09

by Doc Bear on Nov 24, 2009 9:32 PM MST up reply actions  

Thanks Colinski

Character may be manifested in the great moments but it is made in the small ones -- Philip Brooks

by KaptainKirk on Nov 24, 2009 10:20 PM MST up reply actions  

re: Polumbus, etc.

I may have overstated the case on Polumbus but he’s a cheap and serviceable LT — and they’re hard to find. I’m not really happy with our backup situation at Tackle with Gorin and Polumbus but the fact is that they used Polumbus to replace Harris rather than Gorin, a veteran, which tells us something. Ideally, we’d only see Polumbus on STs.

I see Guard & Center as somewhat higher priorities than Tackle because we’re looking for starter quality players. In other words — we ‘want’ a backup OT but we ‘need’ a OG and OC. Olsen may eventually fill one starting OG position but I don’t know that at this point, so I treat the position (for the purposes of analysis) as still in need of a starter.

Re: Mankins. I’m suggesting that we find a larger, veteran Center to anchor the interior (Mankins fits this description). The thinking is that Center is a position that requires a somewhat bigger OL than used in the past, because he’s up against large NTs nowadays. Mankins was a Center but has been used at OG with New England. I’m not set on any particular player but one good interior OL — preferably to play Center — could anchor our interior OL. And we could probably sign one for what we’re paying Hamilton this year.

My general thinking is that we only have one solid starter (Kuper) for three interior-OL positions. We can and should draft one interior-OL high but a FA is the only way to avoid the risk of a an unsuccessful replacement of Hamilton (likely next year) and Wiegmann ( 2011?).

My initial impression is that the upcoming draft is strong for many of the OL positions. In fact, it’s almost perfectly tailored to our needs. However, it’s unlikely that we could find more than one immediate starter-quality OL because (by definition) they’re found in the top two rounds. Moreover, it’s easier to find run-blocking RG types in the draft. It’s possible that we’ll find another quality OL later — perhaps in the 3rd or 4th — but a realistic projection would have them starting in two years, thus the need for an additional FA.

no goats, no glory.

by Colinski on Nov 25, 2009 1:26 AM MST up reply actions   1 recs

Thanks

Good points, all. Well thought out.

Moreno/Buckhalter in '09

by Doc Bear on Nov 25, 2009 11:12 AM MST up reply actions  

Thanks, Ted. Excellent post. You just don't miss many.

Thanks for your obversations about Orton’s mobility. I was pissed that we did not run the ball more when he came in. Now I know why. That makes the onside kick make more sense as well. I was torqued about that as well – but it does fit together. I thought that if we stuffed the run down their throats for the remaining about 23 minutes, we had a chance to win.

I wonder how the game would have turned out had there been a different officiating crew? The whole game turned on the Moreno should-a-been “TD”. Can we complain to the league about this?

I am with you on the Titans beating SD. The Bolts have 3 tough games with Dallas, Cincy and Tennessee. They could lose all 3. Couldn’t happen to a nicer bunch of guys….

Good luck in your Bowl game Turkey day. Happy turkey day everyone!

by Blackknigh on Nov 24, 2009 6:45 PM MST reply actions  

A note about the learning curve of rookies:

In the days of Joe Collier, I heard that it took 2 training camps for a LB to learn his system and play well in it. They were running the 3-4 at that time.

by Blackknigh on Nov 24, 2009 6:59 PM MST reply actions  

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