This really is one of my burning questions as well. I’m not putting as much stock in McD as you are but I do question whether Orton is being held back via the play calling or if what we are seeing is the gameplan the coaching staff sees as the best fit fit Ortons skill set.

I, for one, do not believe that what we are seeing from Orton is all he is capable of. I think that the game plans/situational football is what is driving the Offense and Ortons play. I really can’t get past thinking that Mcd simply isn’t ready to unholster his big guns and, you have to admit, he hasn’t really needed to. This past game is the first time I really felt disappointed with the approach to the game and really thought, going into it, that we would see a bit more fireworks. Granted, I didn’t get to watch it and was tortured with having to read the play-by-play but having done my own research I felt the opportunity existed to challenge the DBs and let Royal and Marshall run. It didn’t happen.

I guess what I’m saying is that I PERSONALLY think that McD is looking for something in his Offense that isn’t where he wants it to be. When it gets there, we will see the Patriot type fireworks we’ve all sort of been waiting for. Maybe it’s route running, maybe it’s the running game, maybe it’s the O-Line play but something is preventing the playcalling from showcasing what Orton can do.

none of the answers seem quite right to me ?!

i understand your nagging doubts about Orton though…its that whole game manager vs. gunslinger thing.

i forget the exact quote of Orton, something about learning more in 4 months under McDaniels than 4 years with Turner in Chicago ? pretty big difference between learning and executing sometimes though.

the older you get the more patience you develop…how much patience will McDaniels have if Kyle’s development plateaus ?

What KO is good at JMac likes.

The offense is not where he wants it to be. When it gets there, you will see what all Broncos fans want…many points, explosive plays, and more amoeba.

I can’t wait!

All Ready!

Matt Cassel vs Tom Brady:

Look at the results an elite QB (Tom Tom) can put up in that system (2007 – 4800 yds, 50 TD -8 INT)

Matt Cassel (3600 yds – 21 TD -11 Int)

There are a TON of variables such as state of career and schedule, weather, ect. Point is, the question was, QB or Scheme.

I think its an excellent scheme with a SOLID QB. Could we do better in the future.. I think so.

I guess I sit in the camp one slot above you on the “Orton opinion” scale. Somewhere between “He’s smart but misses too many throws” and "He’s the hippy hero who will lead us to the bowl (The Super Bowl, not the other kind).

I have to say, I agree with all of your observations and opinions, I just happen to like what Kyle brings to the team a little more than you do. I love what he brings to the game as a manager, which has been well chronicled on our site… I love his leadership and the fact that the guys love him. I don’t worry about mobility, we saw last week that he moves better than he gets credit for. But like you said, I do worry about his accuracy. I am tired of the play where Eddie takes his route inside before breaking it outside, Kyle fires it to his outside shoulder and the camera catches up to the action with Royal laid out in a full dive with the ball ricocheting off his hands and into the ground.

Overall, I think we still need to give Kyle and the offense more time to gel together… I think that once everything becomes second nature to everyone else and they can react instead of think as much… Kyle’s throws will get better and we will have more completions and overall continuity in the offense. I still have a little man in the back of my mind whispering that Kyle is just a little bit inaccurate and will never be able to make all the throws we need him to… I think and hope that is just a nagging voice that will be quelled soon by Kyle’s play from here on out…

I have a ton of respect for the folks who post here regularly…

He’s welcome back next year. However….I think there should be no clearly designated starter when camp starts. Tom B showed some real skills in preseason, and if his smarts match his physical attributes, then I’d have no problem with a QB competition in camp. Of course this would require that Tom be studying the gameplans and learning the defenses each week as if he were the starter….Josh should be able to tell when/if he is ready.

This is only my opinion RIGHT NOW….should Orton really grow and progress into a more dynamic QB as the season goes on, I’ll be happer than a Chiefs fan on the last day of regular season! ;)

I have to admit it was a more exciting style of play and made for interesting entertainment. The only thing that I don’t miss from last year is the INT’s that the already dismal defense in a hole to climb out of. I am sure that is what was going on in McDaniels’ mind when confronting the idea of having that other quarterback on the roster. Kyle may not have the physical characteristics but brings a subtle kind of pleasant leadership (no pouting) to the team that we didn’t see last year. I or you or anybody else here knows exactly who will be under center next year and I guess we’ll find out when the time comes. One thing I do know, is in a new system and scheme it takes awhile for any quarterback to get his ju ju going (the groove man), so all I can say is kick back relax, have a shot of Jack and just wait and see.

Kyle Orton and Josh McDaniels have been working together for 7 regular season games. Only 7! McDaniels’ playbook is vast and intricate, and I think it’s still early to judge whether or not we should have someone new behind center next year. The fact that Orton is doing as well as he has been, in my opinion, is big time props to him. Even Peyton Manning and Tom Brady have 4 interceptions each. Orton is still reigned in. Make the small throws(good lord, how many screens did we see last week? ugh.) and don’t throw into heavy coverage unless it’s desperation time. I vote, we cheer for this season, enjoy our wins, and see what happens when McDaniels and Orton have another offseason together and Orton has a year with the playbook in his lap. If Orton is a 5 right now, I see a 50% increase in quality to a 7.5 next year. Will he ever be Mr. Manning(the Indy one)? Doubtful. But a Mr. Brees? Very Possible.

Is another John Elway, in the latter half of his career. And this is what, I dare say (not much of a dare, actually), what all of us want.

What we want is… a QB that manages the game, takes what the defense gives him, minimizes mistakes while making the most of his opportunities (i.e., redzone trips), but also has the raw talent and physical skill to extend broken plays, make throws downfield to keep defenses honest, and make that beautiful rainbow 50 yard TD pass every so often to make us jump out of our chairs and thank the heavens for Bronco football.

Some of us thought we might have had that in Cutler (provided he could mature his game management skills and grow up a bit) and I think that is why some of us were so upset when he left.

With Orton, I’m happy with his play so far, how can you not be at 6-1, but I am greedy like you. I would like to see the occasional deep ball to keep the defenses respect that phase of our passing game. And at the same time, I am somewhat scared that Baltimore finally exposed the blueprint for success against us this season… that is, take away the short passes, get up a few scores, and tee off on Orton. If teams continue to do this, we’ll have to hope that Neckbeard can prove all of his doubters wrong and make our opponents pay.

BTW, this part of your post cracked me up:

But when I dug a little deeper, I realized that there’s a question burning in me like a southbound habanero burrito

Quote “I want a QB who will show the intelligence and field generalship of a Kyle Orton and also make the exceptional play semi-regularly.” I think all teams want that Broncs Cheer but I don’t think its as easy to come by. I know there are a bunch of throws I have seen Kyle miss but I love the fact that he doesn’t turn the ball over. I think there are a few qbs who might be better for our offense but I don’t think they will be as good in terms of turnovers, so I will take that any day of the week and twice on Sundays. As McDaniels says he is always looking to upgrade so by no means do I think he is satisfied, however, I would sign Orton to a long term deal. By the way, great article!

The person. The QB, I’m still not sold on. Part of it is the nagging doubts from the ‘opinion’ of him before he came to Denver. I think he’s a great leader and team player, but I still feel that maybe his physical skills just aren’t that good.

However, I believe a lot of the same comments were made about Drew Brees when he was in SD. He’s too short, can’t throw the ball 100 yards on a line, and look where he is now.

We’ve seen glimpses of what he can do, and I still think that he can get better.

I think he is very good. I remember being a little envious of Chicago right about this time last year for having him. As the season went on I pretty much forgot about him, of course (having since learned that his production fell from getting injured and never really recovering). Whether he can be a top level quarterback, I don’t know but any doubts certainly doesn’t stem from him committing mistakes. I have never seen a quarterback who didn’t. There has been so many times watching Elway that I was saying: “Oh boy, here we go again.” Even so, he is beyond question one of the all time great.

Kyle Orton is Jake Plummer 2.0

Orton will win a lot of games for us, but he will never be able to lift us over the Super Bowl hump.

What are we supposed to take away from that?

  I constantly wonder where is the downfield attack (that New England has) in this offence!! It’s offensive to me to run as many screens and checkdowns as McD has called – obviously against a fast aggressive defence like the Ravens that was very poor game planning and I hope our rookie coach learned something – Did anyone notice before the SD game how McD responded when asked about Rivers, he was gushing at Rivers’ ability – but when asked about his own QB his tone is always tongue in cheek.. leads me to believe the Broncos will deliberate well into the offseason before deciding. Anyone else think Ben Hamilton is killing this offence? He’s got to go.

I was looking for names like Clady, Harris, Marshall, Royal, Sheff, Stokley, Moreno, etc. I didn’t find them.

Football is a TEAM game. QBs don’t have records as starters anymore than CBs or RTs. The QB win % is a nonsense stat invented by a moron.

Orton fits in well with the pieces around him on O. But we’ve had two games of seven where we barely moved the ball or scored (Cincy and Baltimore).

At 6-1, Denver is doing well and Orton is a part of that equation. I would say Orton is a better than average QB fit for the offense he plays with.

I would like to see us use our second rounder on a G/C this year (- with the first being an inside linebacker who can actually cover) Offensively it is my belief the interior O-line isn’t getting it done.. I think they did the smart thing in extending Casey one more year from now so we can develop the stud center we lack – To Casey’s credit he plays with great leverage and he’s all heart but he’s just to little to run power like they want to.

Both Chris Simms and Brandstater could be considered as players who have better arms… and better mobility… and yet McDaniels has consistently stuck with Orton. Obviously there is more to Orton than just an Arm…

Don’t sell the mental part of the QB position short. I believe that the greatest tool at the QB’s disposal is his brain… and a QB who doesn’t think well or learn well or make good decisions will not play well. They might be flashy at times… but they are going to explode at time too.

I think that Kyle is a very good QB… who has the tools to be a very, very good QB. Give him a year or two in the system and then draw your judgments from there.

It’s old, and not the prettiest knife I’ve ever seen, but I always keep it sharp. I’ll be damned if that knife hasn’t pulled through for me every time I needed it to.

All Orton does is win games, or so it seems. With his 27-13 record, he deserves at least one or two full seasons in a good system, with a coach who believes in him. He’s earned the right to show what he can really do over an extended time.

I feel the same way about Vince Young. Where could that kid be if smarty-pants Jeff Fisher was not doubting him at every turn?

As far as I can tell (how do I word this) Brady is the only QB that McDaniels has had in his system for 2 years. McDaniels became the Offensive Coordinator for the Patriots prior to the 2006 season. He and Brady were together for the that year and the following. In 2008 Brady was hurt and Cassel stepped in. Want to compare number for Brady in his first season and Cassel in his first season under McDaniels? Too bad, here’s the numbers.

Brady- 16Games, 3529yards, 61.8passing%, 24 TDs, 12 Ints 87.9 Rating
Cassel- 16Games, 3693yards, 63.4passing%, 21 TDs, 11 Ints 89.4 Rating

In Bradys second year, We all know what happened. If you look at Ortons numbers thus far in his first year under McDaniels it loks STRIKINGLY similar to the other two in there first year with one major exception, Interceptions. I’m not saying, I’m just saying.

Did a great job of highlighting how McD has designed gameplans around Orton’s limited capabilities. And then they showed some graphic where over the past 3 games (before the Baltimore debacle) Orton’s completion percentages for attempts of different ranges were as follows (I think, doing this from memory):

10 yards or less: 80%
10-20 yards: 35%
Over 20 yards: 15%?

I do not know how this compares to other qbs, but it does seem like Kyle is making a living off of the dink and dunk, and if teams shut down the run and don’t allow YACs, they can stop the Broncos. I was also thinking, while watching the Raven game, they should have better qb stats based on successful plays. Orton set up Moreno to get killed and subsequently fumble way behind the line of scrimmage. Orton gets a completion on that play. He also gets completions on 3 yard passes on 3rd and long. When in reality, those plays are failures.

I wasn’t sold on McD or Orton before the season started (hi group, my name is Bob and I was a doubter). I’m now very sold on McD, but still think that Orton is what he is. A little better than I had thought, but still pretty limited.

I like to think that McDaniels picked the right personnel for his first tenure as head coach. He chose Mike Nolan which has turned out to be great for the job to transform their defense into a functional 3-4. Sure, I was one of the bitter ones that was fighting the fact McD got rid of Cutler…but he obviously saw something in Cutler that we the public didn’t see until after he was exposed. We knew Cutler is a hot head but we see now that he may very well be uncoachable as well. Overrated? I’m not sure yet but I know Orton seems to have the ability and desire to learn from a coach and doesn’t act like a ‘show-off know it all punk’ so that works for McD’s system. It’s still early in the season and I like where we’re at. I’d give the props to McD for putting the right people in the right positions…

I for one think you need a QB who 1. Knows the offense. 2. Can manage, that’s right manage the offense and 3. isn’t wrapped up in what his numbers look like at the end of the day except whether his team posted a W or an L.

I must admit that I was a very big Cutler supporter during his time with us…although I couldn’t stand alot of his comments about his arm strength, team mates, etc. Anyway, I was a huge fan of his. I was extremely disappointed with what happened during the offseason but I figured the McD gets paid for this so he probably knows what he’s doing.
Now as for KO, I was very sketchy about him at the beginning but I must say he has grown on me like a fungus. Again I will admit that I very much miss some of the things that JC brought to Denver, especially the ability to extend plays, throw rockets and the deep ball. But I’ve learned that doesn’t always turn into wins. Yes the offense hasn’t been as exciting, but the fact is they’re winning. At the end of the day/season, the only stat that means anything is W’s & L’s. I will easily take a QB that throws for 3K yards and 20 TD’s over someone that throws for 4500 yards and 25 TD’s if that means we are winning. One thing that I’ve seen, in my opinion, is the Kyle seems to always speak of himself within the concept of team as opposed to JC speaking more of himself as above the team. I could be wrong but that’s just the way I always took it when I watched his interviews. Any way I could go on for days, but I would feel comfortable if we had KO around for a few more seasons at hopefully a decent salary. It just feels good to cheer for a team that’s winning again and he definitely has a lot to do with it.

Of course everyone wants both, skill and leadership. Every single coach, fan and GM in the leagues feels that way. Well, maybe not Al Davis….but I digress.

So, until that QB comes, I will take the smarts and leadership first. Hands down. For that, I appreciate Kyle Orton a great deal. I also understand that he will be replaced if “the guy” ever comes to us.

The last three years made it clear what my preference is, and that is someone who is a between the ears guy with leadership and coachability. I am fine with that until we see another “the guy.”

You know that could take a looong time, right? _

Remember we are in negotiation with Orton’s Agent. Comments like the above mentioned go a long way in negotiations. I do believe in McDaniels system and that he could plug a Quarterback similar to Orton in the system. To watch Tom Brandstater in the Pre-Season, we can see that a smart QB will be able to work in our Offense. This can go a long way in Getting Orton for the price we want.

We hae a coach and front office who are very clever with their words and systematic in their approach to the media!

I’m neither a Broncos fan, nor a Broncos hater, so I have no bias on this subject.

Sorry, but when I watch Orton, I don’t see anything that screams “good QB”. He throws a decent ball sometimes, but he also throws a bad one quite often (just not bad enough to be intercepted).

The reason he has good stats is because he has a very smart coach that gives him a great system, and he has a very good Offensive line, great receivers, and solid-good RBs.

The reason for his wins are because of great coaching and a STRONG defense.

And I’m not meaning to insult you guys, but it really seams like you are putting to much faith into a 6th round draft pick.

So bottom-line; you can be a playoff contender with Orton and a superbowl contender with a better QB.

Thank you and I am not trolling, just trying to be part of the discussion.

I have to agree with everyone, great article!
Although I have supported Orton from the start, Im still trying to make up my mind about his future. There is a lot of aspects that I like about him, and obviously some that worry me.

I dont think I will be able to make up my mind until the end of the season. But so far Im happy.

It ain’t about me hating Orton

Well, actually, it is. You’ve hated on him since you started posting about this and it hasn’t changed. So far, facts haven’t had much impact on your statements.

In the interests of accuracy – Orton has brought the team back from behind 4 times in 7 games. His 4th Q rating is the best in the league. He’s in the top 5 in a half dozen categories and the top 10 in in a half dozen more. His QB rating isn’t the defense’s – it’s his. It’s well above Cutler’s and it’s very good – better than Cutler has ever achieved, in fact. His completion rate continues to climb every year. He has the best home win record in over 3 decades.

The QB you adore has one INT for every TD and has contributed several extra fumbles. His QB rating is lower. He’s not, statistically, a better QB and that also leaves out the areas that Orton is extremely talented in, such as play changes, maximizing the running game, calm and football intelligence.

I don’t know why you continue to post all this anti-Orton venting. Certainly, you’re welcome to do so, but please – don’t insult our intelligence by claiming that you’re not hating on Orton. Read your rant and even you won’t believe something so obviously false. That’s all you’ve been doing.

Everything had to go perfect in those games though for him to look good.

I don’t know what you’re imbibing to believe that everything went perfect in ANY game, but that’s really an absurd remark. I notice that you don’t give a single fact to support your bitter spewing on any of this. Since the standard at MHR is rational civil discourse, perhaps that might be appropriate.