The Curious Case of Matt Prater
by OrangeandBlue27 on Nov 5, 2009 9:30 PM MST
58 comments
Editor's Note - More great stuff from the Fan Posts. You guys and gals are a talented group. Great post, and keep 'em coming! - Guru
Hey everyone, I have been an MHR member for a few months and am a life-long Broncos fan from Virginia. I love the site and try to comment as often as I can. However, up until now, I had not created my own post, but something I heard on Sirius NFL Radio this morning got me to thinking about our hot, cold, and everywhere in between kicker. Randy Cross, co-host of the Morning Drive, was talking about touchbacks and how a special teams coach often will tell their kicker a few weeks into the season to favor hang time instead of going for the touchback every time. He suggested that this saves the kicker's leg from getting too tired over the course of the season and helps to prevent a low line drive kick from being returned. This is an interesting point and could, note that word, have something to do with Prater's recent performance. Let's hope so because the alternative is not all that promising.
Now, there has been a lot of discussion about Prater's apparent struggles as of late. Touchbacks in the past few weeks are rarer than a Raiders fan in a college class. Hayooo. His field goals? Well, let's just say there is room for improvement, but how much? Is Prater already fading like he did down the stretch last season? Let's look at the numbers, but let me first be up front and tell you all that I am not a stats guy and don't even play one on TV. I made my analysis on the basis of simple logic and not sound statistical principles that I undoubtedly furrowed my brow at in a vain attempt to understand in some college stats class.
Prater started out great in 2008. Here are his stats from weeks 1-7 courtesy of NFL.com.
13 of 14 (93%) field goals and 12 touchbacks.
Unfortunately, Prater started to fade fairly significantly after the bye.
12 of 20 (60%) field goals and 7 touchbacks (only 2 from weeks 11-17).
Prater ultimately finished fairly average on the year.
25 of 34 (73.5%) field goals and 19 touchbacks
After the season, Prater told the press that his leg had fatigued and that it had affected his kicking down the stretch That certainly seems plausible. His field goal accuracy dropped. No, wait, plummeted. Actually, let's go with dropped precipitously. In addition, his touchbacks all but vanished late in the season. Prater said that he was preparing this year to ensure it would not happen again. So where does he stand today? This is a smaller sample size, but let's take a look.
Well, things started out pretty well in weeks 1-4.
8 of 10 (80%) field goals and 9 touchbacks
Unfortunately, things have been less rosy in weeks 5-8.
4 of 6 (67%) fields goals and 0 touchbacks
All and all, things are going a little better than last year.
12 of 16 (75%) field goals and 9 touchbacks
I keep using the word unfortunately, but, unfortunately, this minor improvement still puts Prater in the bottom third of the league in field goal percentage--the league average this year is about 82%. Plus, his lack of touchbacks could be an indication that his leg is going gimpy again, this time even earlier. Ever curious, I wanted some context for evaluating Prater's performance over the rest of the season, so I looked at five of the better kickers in the league (Akers, Kaeding, Gostkowski, Gould, and Janicowski). Yeah, yeah we could debate these selections, but just humor me on this. Oh and before you even start, weight issues, hair cut, and team affiliation aside, I included Janicowski not for his ability to put down a foot long sub, but for his ability to boot touchbacks. Over the course of the 2008 season, these kickers together on average made about 85% of their field goals and had about 15 touchbacks. If Prater is going to keep improving and be our long-term solution at the position, he needs to be at least in the neighborhood with these guys, in my opinion. That means better accuracy and no late season fade that would prevent the occasional touchback if it is called for by the coach.
So my question, could Prater's apparent struggles recently to kick the ball out of the back of the end zone be due to coaching to save his leg from getting fatigued like it did last year? I sure hope so. We all know McDaniels loves him some hang time. Just ask our former punter. I like Prater and think he can be a top kicker in this league. I just hope he is being coached to kick the ball high and isn't fading again.
This is a Fan-Created Comment on MileHighReport.com. The opinion here is not necessarily shared by the editorial staff of MHR
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I sure hope so.
If Taylor Swift were to try and tackle me, I'd let her.
by kentuckybronco on Nov 5, 2009 6:33 PM MST reply actions 0 recs
Thanks for stopping by
I do too. I am really hoping for steady improvement in accuracy over the last half of the season. About 80% sounds pretty good to me, and I think that should by Prater another year to grow.
by OrangeandBlue27 on Nov 5, 2009 7:00 PM MST reply actions 0 recs
Wherabouts in Va?
I’m in the NoVa/DC Area.
"I have not failed. I've just found 10,000 ways that won't work."
- Thomas Alva Edison
"Success is not a place at which one arrives, but rather... the spirit with which one undertakes and continues the journey."
- Alex Noble
by DenBronx on Nov 6, 2009 9:17 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Sterling, just outside DC
by OrangeandBlue27 on Nov 6, 2009 11:57 AM MST via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
Great post
A very interesting thought on resting his leg. I think I remember prater saying he practice kicked too much last year. I hope his recent drop is planned.
Great writing too. Raider fan at college…hilarious. Hope to read more from you
by BroncoInExile on Nov 5, 2009 8:20 PM MST via mobile reply actions 0 recs
Rested by now
Prater did not have to do much last week – no FG attempts, 1 PAT, 2 KOs (half and after TD). That’s pretty light workload for a kicker. Plus a bye week. If ever there’s a chance to rest his leg, this was it. So we’ll see this Monday. But I tell you, I’m worried. He was so awesome September’08 and this year he did not start so fast. We need a kicker we can rely on in playoffs, and in football they don’t do playoffs in September or even in November.
by si_ice on Nov 5, 2009 8:42 PM MST reply actions 0 recs
9 touchbacks in 4 games is a pretty good start
That’s the reason he was named the ST Player of the Month for September(well, that and the fact that no one else did anything particularly special). That’s also what makes his recent ineptitude on kickoffs so baffling.
by jack_ on Nov 5, 2009 11:21 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Yes it is a very good start
Janicowski is one of the few with more at this point l. He finished last year with over 20, which is really impressive. Again, I think Prater needs to hit that 15-16 mark. Thanks for the great comments.
by OrangeandBlue27 on Nov 6, 2009 4:19 AM MST via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
Prater kicks in Denver
Remember, Prater is the only kicker in the league to kick at high altitude half of the games. He SHOULD gain some benefit from this, statistically, in terms of longer kick-offs and longer FGs.
I agree that his KO for touchbacks were good. But he was not as great on FGs early in this season. The stats in this article bear this out.
by si_ice on Nov 6, 2009 8:00 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs
High altitude football
I read a physics article on this about a year ago, more or less. According to the writer, the physics of the situation are such that the thinner air does have a substantial effect on a baseball, but the size and shape of the football create a different circumstance. Again -= according to that article only – the thinner air doesn’t make a difference in the flight of the ball.
I’d love to hear from any of our math-heads on the site as to their own impressions of this. Good article – rec’d!
Moreno/Buckhalter in '09
by Emmett Smith on Nov 6, 2009 10:46 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs
I know my golf ball
Goes straighter and farther in Colorado Springs (Elev. 6,100) than it does in Los Angeles. And Major League pitchers have trouble getting their curve ball and slider to break.
Character may be manifested in the great moments but it is made in the small ones -- Philip Brooks
by KaptainKirk on Nov 6, 2009 1:30 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
3 forces at work
gravitation (9.8n/m^2) which is different at 5280, but is the most negligible force at work on a football. The main forces of concern are both aerodynamic forces, air resistance, more properly called “drag” and a spinning air effect based of the Bernoulli principle which is often called “lift” though it should be noted that a ball could drop rapidly or move side to side under the effect of “lift” physics.
The principle of drag is straight newtonian physics: the velocity with which the ball moves through the air is opposed by a force from the exact opposite direction. The lift effect comes from the spin of the ball, with which 3 related spins are associated in football: end over end, and spiral, of which there is a lateral and vertical variety. The spin creates a whirlpool effect around the ball, which causes a low pressure side and a high pressure side of the ball to develop. The ball is then “pushed” by its own self generated forces in the direction of the low pressure pocket (which is always perpendicular to the relative velocity vector).
Both of these lift and drag principles are affected most notably (and proportionally, as in, they have less effects) by air density, which is affected by: altitude, air temperature, and relative humidity. Denver supports high altitude, variable air temps, and low humidity. The net effect is generally that the higher altitude cause the air density to lower. Higher temps will also cause the density to lower, while colder temps will raise the air density. Finally, low relative humidity surprisingly will be more dense than very humid air (air molecules weigh more than water molecules).
For end over end kicks at altitude, the results are that in cold, dry air (not counting for condition of the football itself) the kick equalizes somewhat with low altitude kicking (though I would have to do the actual math to see what percentage that was. A casual look at the numbers suggest around 90-95%). In warmer weather, the effect of altitude becomes much more noticeable, with a few effects:
DRAG is reduced significantly, which makes the ball travel faster. Because drag is derived from the relative velocity vector (the speed of the ball through the air in a specific direction) kicking “harder” will increase the drag forces. More velocity equals a “harder” kick that travels further, quicker.
LIFT is reduced significantly, which makes the ball travel with less accuracy. The spin generated lift on an end over end kick is used to control its side to side slice and hook characteristics. The further a ball can travel due to altitude adjustments, the less likely the kicker will be able to control it. Ideally, there should be no crosswinds and the kick should be perfectly straight. The backspin common in NFL end over end kicks will generate very little lift, which won’t help the distance. The same kick at sea level would travel further based on Bernoulli lift principles, but might be offset by drag principles.
So a good kick at altitude, say, for a touch back, requires warmer, more humid weather (cold and dry offsets some of the advantage gained by altitude), needs to be kicked straight, as a function of both backspin and speed of backspin (rotational velocity). If it is kicked incorrectly, bad effects get magnified, and the kick occurs quicker, which prevents the coverage team from setting up to defend the poor kick in time.
Think of it as a margin of error that is much larger at its peak, but which decreases more rapidly than the same margin for a given kicker at sea level. I would imagine the same rules apply for a punt, but the ball has a different movement that I am not necessarily familiar with.
Precision in thought, concision in style, decision in life.
"That's MR.Styg..."
by Jeremy Bolander on Nov 6, 2009 1:33 PM MST up reply actions 1 recs
I dont want to do this
But i Feel like I have to:
gravitation (9.8n/m^2) which is different at 5280
Gravity is Constant on Earth and is also 9.8m/s^2 or since we’re in the US 32.2 Ft/s^2. Gravity doesn’t matter for this problem (unless you’re talking about the speed that the ball hits the returner’s hands as a function of absolute height of the kick)
Air Pressure Decreases as Altitude Increases. Less Air Pressure the less Density.
Air Density changes with temperature which effects the Drag. Colder the Temperature, the more dense the air, the more atoms per unit volume:
Force of Drag = .5 * density * Velocity of Football ^2 * Area of the object * Drag Coefficent.
Its going to be hard to find a solid Drag Coefficent number for a ‘spinning’ football.
To simplify (and confirm what Mr. Bolander says)
So if Denver were warm, it would be an ideal kicking situation as you have less air pressure (altitude) and less dense air (warm).
80 degrees and Sea Level compared to 80 degrees and Denver were 96.8% (denver lower)
30 degrees and Sea Level comprared to 80 and Sea Level were 91.2%
Temperature controls.
by _Atwater27 on Nov 6, 2009 3:00 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
thanks for doing the math
and good catch on the gravitation. I should have said “weight”, which would be minimally altered, and relatively insignificant for the purpose of these calculations.
Regarding drag coefficient, I got to thinking about it since you did the math, and I think one may have to find the center of pressure (if at all possible) in relation to the center of gravity for the ball. I have a hard time envisioning the process for an end over end kick though…it is much easier to visualize on a nice tight spiral, kind of like ballistics on a bullet…
On the other hand, this has probably gone far enough… :)
Precision in thought, concision in style, decision in life.
"That's MR.Styg..."
by Jeremy Bolander on Nov 6, 2009 7:52 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Well
thanks for the lesson guys. I knew a lot of this on less scientific terms.
Character may be manifested in the great moments but it is made in the small ones -- Philip Brooks
by KaptainKirk on Nov 7, 2009 7:19 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Dont play that way
We know you trekkies are ready to bust an Anti-matter bomb on some Raider fans any day.
by _Atwater27 on Nov 7, 2009 1:58 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Field goal percentage from year to year is variable and seemingly random.
Each kickers previous years performance is non-predictive of the subsequent year. What is consistent is the percentage of kickbacks which tends to favor the strongest kickers and is consistent from year to year.
Imagination is more important than knowledge. A. Einstein
by Ponderosa on Nov 5, 2009 8:53 PM MST reply actions 0 recs
OB
Good post and good use of stats.
Although I am not ready to throw Prater out with the bathwater. I want a kicker who produces touchbacks.
I am less concerned about the FG percentages, as those tend to fluctuate from year to year with individual kickers, but touchbacks, those should remain consistent.
Randy Cross…I didn’t know he knew so much about kicking:-)
"Wait, let me explain something to you...I'm the Dude. So, that's what you call me. You know, that, or 'His Dudeness,' or 'Duder,' or 'El Duderino,' if you're not into the whole brevity thing."
by TJ Johnson on Nov 5, 2009 8:59 PM MST reply actions 0 recs
OMG Dude
Are our brain waves starting to synch? I am seriously concerned about my sanity. LOL.
Imagination is more important than knowledge. A. Einstein
by Ponderosa on Nov 5, 2009 9:02 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
This is pretty scary. More Kool-Aid? What does Mike Clark put into it?
OB put a compelling case here together for Prater’s lack of success on the touchback. Remember the days of two roster spots? One for the kicker and one for the guy that gave you touchbacks? I’ll be right back. Gonna correlate touchbacks to wins and see if it’s worth keeping a 2nd roster spot just for a freakin’ kicker!!!
"Wait, let me explain something to you...I'm the Dude. So, that's what you call me. You know, that, or 'His Dudeness,' or 'Duder,' or 'El Duderino,' if you're not into the whole brevity thing."
by TJ Johnson on Nov 5, 2009 9:07 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
TJ totally agree
I would like to see a little more accuracy though. That said, I recognize that context means a lot. If Prater steadily improves his accuracy but loses a couple of games for us then that’s definitely less important than approaching that 85% mark. Thanks for reading.
by OrangeandBlue27 on Nov 6, 2009 4:32 AM MST via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
Good post 27. Rec'd
Just wanted to ask where in Va. your from? I’m in Richmond.
All you get from drafting the "best player available" is a team full of good football players.
Cotton McKnight: I'm being told that Average Joe's does not have enough players and will be forfeiting the championship match.
Pepper Brooks: It's a bold strategy, Cotton. Let's see if it pays off for 'em.
by orangeblood on Nov 6, 2009 6:36 AM MST reply actions 0 recs
Couple Virginia boys in the house, eh?
I’m in Norfolk. We should consider putting a lil VA MHR gathering together or some such…
"Change is inevitable - except from vending machines."
by EastCoastBronco on Nov 6, 2009 8:09 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed on the Va MHR reunion
I know it’s a long way from Norfolk, but there is a Broncos bar in DC behind the archives. Also I will be going to the Redskins game in two weeks.
by OrangeandBlue27 on Nov 6, 2009 12:12 PM MST via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
Please list the Bar
and I will add it to this archived post.
Character may be manifested in the great moments but it is made in the small ones -- Philip Brooks
by KaptainKirk on Nov 6, 2009 1:35 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
You are all over it Kaptain
Pen Quarter is the bar I was refering to. I have yet to go, but I have heard good things. My typical gameday involves more solitude than human interaction. I can get a little “excited”. I believe we are on out second or third DVR remote. I guess that’s what getting blown out by the Colts for the second straight year can do to a guy. Thanks for putting together that list, by the way.
by OrangeandBlue27 on Nov 6, 2009 1:49 PM MST via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
You're welcome
Thanks for helping. I know at least 2 people that will check it out when they are in the area. If you go, send me the address and other details. My email address is at my bio page.
Character may be manifested in the great moments but it is made in the small ones -- Philip Brooks
by KaptainKirk on Nov 7, 2009 7:24 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Northen Va here
Glad to see Va representing. I am In sterling, just outside DC.
by OrangeandBlue27 on Nov 6, 2009 12:00 PM MST via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
I’ve made it very clear I am not a fan of Matt Prater (and that does NOT mean I wish we had retained Elam).
In the games vs. NE and Baltimore, I noticed their kickers consistently kicking the ball at least 6+ yards beyond Prater’s average kickoff distance. The NE kicker was racking up touchbacks when Prater couldn’t reach the 5. This was a home game. The Ravens kicker clearly outdistanced Matt’s only kickoff, which was returned for a TD that was the turning point in that game. This was an away game.
At some point, I believe the Broncos and our great fans will recognize that with Prater, it is more of a lack of talent issue than anything else. Matt Prater is not a terrible NFL kicker, but he also not one among the top 15-20 kickers in the NFL. Not in terms of accuracy nor in kickoff distance (post September anyway). Is it the cold weather, the leg fatigue, is this or that. I think it is simply a lack of talent vs. the numerous better kickers in the NFL. For a player with as many flaws in this resume over a short career, I very much hope and expect Prater to face some stiff competition for that job in 2010. He got a free pass onto the 2009 roster. I believe he should have to earn his NFL job in Denver next season.
This is my favorite website.
by McGeorge on Nov 6, 2009 7:52 AM MST reply actions 0 recs
agreed whole-heartedly!
Wish there was a Mason Crosby type kicker comin out of college this year. Anyone know the elite kickers who will most likely be in the draft? Punters to for that matter. We’re gonna need both.
"Change is inevitable - except from vending machines."
by EastCoastBronco on Nov 6, 2009 8:11 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Mason Crosby
has been as bad- or worse- than Prater thus far in his career. I hope he’s not the ideal we’re striving for.
by jack_ on Nov 6, 2009 2:41 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Rec'd
Matt Prater has been on my disapoinment list this year as well. One stat that I feel tells the whole story as opposed to Randy Cross’s idea, is how many kicks are going into the endzone period. The best scenario is to kick it 1-2 yrds deep into the endzone and hope they try to return. Ask Eddie Royal how that worked out for him. More stats from the lovely NFL.com.
Weeks 1-4
Total Kicks/ Kicks into the Endzone
19/16 .842
Total Kick returns/ Tot. Yards
9/178 19.77 yards per attempt
Weeks 5,6,8
Total Kicks/ Kicks ino the Endzone
13/1 .076
Total Kick returns/ Tot. yards
13/354 27.23 yards per attempt
With a lack of long kicks its costing us an additional 8 yards of field position. The biggest reason I think Prater is loosing his leg as opposed to Cross’s idea is due to San Diego’s game alone. Going into the game we knew that we had to remove Sproles from the game. Not a single better way then kicking touchbacks. Well, out of 7 kicks, 1 went into the endzone.
Denver rookie head coach Josh McDaniels doesn't have a grasp on how to build a team." - John Clayton, April 23rd, 2009
by diviesti on Nov 6, 2009 8:14 AM MST reply actions 0 recs
Not worried about FG
I think Prater has done okay kicking FGs this year. The two he missed in the game against the Browns were due to 40MPH wind gusts. The other two were from 48 @home and 54 @ SD yards.
Statistics can be spun various ways depending on how you look at them. You say that he started off at 80% for the first 4 and is 67% since. You also could have said that he started 67% (4-6) in the first 2 games and is 80% since (8-10).
Elam and Prater had very similar first years:
Elam
26/35 FGs and 41/42 XPs
Prater
25/34 FGs and 39/40 XPs
Elam was not always great. Out of the 15 years he played in Denver, there were 6 years when his FG accuracy was 75% or less. I think there is hope for Prater as a FG kicker.
On the other hand, I am very concerned with how Prater has consistently been 5 yards short of the endzone on kickoffs over the last couple games. It is even worse to see the other kicker get into the endzone. This difference in kickoffs has given the opponents almost 10 extra yards per kick.
I hope to see the old Prater on Monday.
by DieselDan on Nov 6, 2009 9:35 AM MST reply actions 0 recs
Kickers league wide are more accurate today than when Elam broke into the league. Comparing Elam’s 1st year to Prater’s 2008 season is apples to oranges. I don’t get why people continue to make this misleading comparision.
You should only compare Prater to the NFL kickers in 2008 and 2009 if you want to know where he stands.
This is my favorite website.
by McGeorge on Nov 6, 2009 9:42 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs
I didn’t think about that, but I agree with you. I took a look at the total FG data for the NFL since 2002, and every year the FG% has increased. The average for the entire NFL last year was 84.5%. So yes, comparing Prater’s and Elam’s rookie years is not valid.
Year Made Attempts PCT
2002 737 951 77.50
2003 756 954 79.25
2004 703 870 80.80
2005 783 967 80.97
2006 767 942 81.42
2007 795 960 82.81
2008 845 1000 84.50
2009 318 394 80.71
by DieselDan on Nov 6, 2009 11:38 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Fatigue
Why would you try to prevent fatigue DURING a game by favoring hangtime over a touchback? I can see it in practice, but if a kicker can’t shoot for the end zone every kick in a game without getting tired, there is a problem.
The strategic part of going for hangtime (preventing the low line-drive) makes a bit more sense; however, I still have a problem with having to play it safe as a kicker. If the kicker can’t strike the ball consistently enough to avoid all but the occasional low liner, he shouldn’t be kicking in the NFL.
by Iguck! on Nov 6, 2009 9:52 AM MST reply actions 0 recs
Yep. Why are there always so many excuses when it comes to the topic of Matt Prater?
This is my favorite website.
by McGeorge on Nov 6, 2009 10:30 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs
No excuses McG
Just hope. That’s why I included the averages from the other kicker. I want to track his progress or lack there of.
by OrangeandBlue27 on Nov 6, 2009 12:13 PM MST via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
It is not one person making excuses for Prater. It seems to be almost everyone. When the topic of his play comes up at MHR, it is often to make excuses as to why his performance is deteriorating.
Why is that? That is the question I am asking.
People at MHR are often asking how Jay Cutler avoids more criticism and all the excuses that surround his play. It is a valid point by those at MHR. I believe Prater falls into this exact same category as Cutler as far as getting away with more than he should based on his play.
This is my favorite website.
by McGeorge on Nov 6, 2009 1:00 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
You're right McGeorge
Character may be manifested in the great moments but it is made in the small ones -- Philip Brooks
by KaptainKirk on Nov 6, 2009 1:37 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Thanks, now lets hope Matt shapes up soon.
This is my favorite website.
by McGeorge on Nov 6, 2009 2:49 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
You don't really need a kicker for kickoff chores
Rather than take up a valuable roster spot for a second kicker to do the kickoff chores, if it turns out that Prater is simply no good at kickoffs, take a bunch of players on the team and try them out on kickoffs. Back in the 1970s we had an a great player for kickoffs and he was mainly a specials team player and running back. Lonnie Perrin often kicked the ball over the goalposts for automatic touchbacks. Surely we must have a player that can do that sort of thing, especially with the much stronger players now compared to the 1970’s?
Prater would still be useful for regular field goal kicking and the special short bouncing kickoff since that sort of thing requires more skill than a regular kickoff.
by ColoradoJim on Nov 6, 2009 10:12 AM MST reply actions 0 recs
I like that idea Jim
An extra LB on kickoffs would be an extra good tackler (or at least a better asset than a wimpy kicker).
Character may be manifested in the great moments but it is made in the small ones -- Philip Brooks
by KaptainKirk on Nov 6, 2009 10:14 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Prater is not nearly good enough as a kicker to be kept only for FG attempts. You have to be amazing as a kicker to be afforded the luxury of another player on the roster to handle kickoffs.
Prater is far from an amazing FG kicker.
This is my favorite website.
by McGeorge on Nov 6, 2009 10:31 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed
You maybe have a guy for FGs only if he is 90% or better inside of 50 yards. Otherwise, this is a horrible use of an additional roster spot… actually it’s an extra 1 out of the 45 active.
I thought one of the big things when deciding to keep Prater was his big leg. Wasn’t he doing awesome in the last couple training camps for distance? Kicking 70 yard FGs… kicking the ball over the walls of the complex.
by DieselDan on Nov 6, 2009 11:16 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs
And then comes game time in October and he is short on his 51 yard FG attempt in San Diego.
His leg fades badly during the season. It happened in 2008 and it looks like it is again in 2009.
This is my favorite website.
by McGeorge on Nov 6, 2009 1:02 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
DD, That is why
I thought they would keep Colquitt. In Training Camp, Britton Colquitt was kicking FG’s from 45-50 yards. I don’t recall him kicking off, but the versatility factor is what I believed would make the difference in keeping him
Character may be manifested in the great moments but it is made in the small ones -- Philip Brooks
by KaptainKirk on Nov 6, 2009 1:41 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Couldn't agree more
You only keep someone with worse than average accuracy if they have the big leg for the entire season.
by BroncosRock! on Nov 6, 2009 12:12 PM MST reply actions 0 recs
How can you get leg fatigue when you are under 30, especially at Altitude
I never remember this being an issue with Elam and Karlis when they were under 30. You are a professional athlete, all you are asked to do is kick, shouldn’t you be able to keep your body in good working condition for 18 weeks. I mean it is not like we are asking him to kick a ball 100 times a game like a baseball pitcher. Bottom line is leg fatigue is a BS excuse for a kicker under 30.
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by Broncoman on Nov 6, 2009 4:50 PM MST reply actions 0 recs
Can't argue with this point.....
I truly think his woes started when my friend added Prater as a free agent in Fantasy. He hates the Broncos with a passion….
What a bastardo…
A proud prognostication of 10-6 in 2009!!! (April 2009 prediction)
Revised to 12-4 due to reality!
"Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence."
John Adams
by Broncotodd on Nov 6, 2009 7:49 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Broncoman - Did you read Fatsis on this?
He was pretty specific on the exact reason why this happens. Prater’s issues last season were textbook as to why and how it happens – the coaching of the kicker was lousy in 2008. Having Elam for a long time hid that problem since he was essentially his own coach. I’m not making excuses for anyone – it happened, there was a reason for it and we need to keep an understanding of what happened independent from the “Is Prater good or not” debate. That’s a different question. To me, that jury is still out.
I keep hearing this ’It’s easy – why do they have problems with leg fatigue’ argument from folks who don’t know much about the kicking game. I’d turn the discussion on it’s ear – you DO see a lot of leg fatigue issues. Instead of arguing that it shouldn’t happen, since it clearly does, why not investigate exactly why it does? The answers aren’t obscure – just read the material.
Moreno/Buckhalter in '09
by Emmett Smith on Nov 6, 2009 10:30 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
What do you think the status of Stover will be when Vinateri comes back?
Stover is money from inside 40. He would be a huge addition for any playoff team. McDaniels already pulled off some moves that involve veterans taking over for inexperience.
by Borho27 on Nov 7, 2009 12:52 PM MST reply actions 0 recs
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