Horse Tracks 11/6/09 - McBean, Barrett miss practice again; Roethlisberger lobbying for no-huddle
Our thoughts go out to everyone touched by yesterday's tragedy in Texas...
NFL Films - Week 9: Steelers vs. Broncos Preview - Video
DB - Week 9 - Thu: McDaniels - Broncos TV
DB - Week 9 - Thu: Baliey - Broncos TV
DB - A Familiar Foe - Zach Eisendrath
Ryan McBean spent the last two season on Pittsburgh's practice squad, so his familiarity with the Steelers is helping his new teammates practice for Monday. However, McBean (knee) and Josh Barrett (hamstring) again joined Ryan Harris in missing practice yesterday.
DPP - Broncos lineman feeling at home - Lindsay Jones
Tyler Polumbus is expected to make his first NFL start on Monday, and he'll basically be doing so in his hometown and in front of family and friends.
NFLN - WK 9 Playbook: Steelers vs. Broncos - Video
Baldinger thinks the Broncos need to challenge Pittsburgh deep, while Theismann sees improvement in the Steelers O-Line.
DP - Broncos will be running up hill against Steelers - Jeff Legwold
DP - Steelers safety quiet as playing is unlikely
DPP - Kiszla: Broncos make mistake with Moreno over Buckhalter
Kiszla thinks Buck should be getting more touches than Knowshon.
DPP - Special-teams delivery from Broncos overdue - Mike Klis
DPP - Gaffney shows 20-20-20-20 vision - Mike Klis
DPP - Spotlight on: Broncos DE Kenny Peterson - Lindsay Jones
CSG - Broncos LB Williams might get to Pro Bowl this time - Frank Schwab
CSG - Broncos coach says if plays executed, success will follow - Frank Schwab
CSG - Broncos notes: WR Stokley has been quiet lately - Frank Schwab
AP - Broncos Trying To Kick Trend Of Slow Starts - Pat Graham
DB - Breakfast Blitz - Gray Caldwell
Wonderful. The Broncos have decided to "promote good eating habits" by putting Miles on the box of some sugar-laden breakfast cereal.
ESPN - John Clayton breaks down the biggest NFL games of Week 9
"Keep an eye on Orton. Early in the week, it was revealed his ankle was sore. It's not a bad injury, just a minor tweak. But a sore ankle last season when he was in Chicago limited his mobility and negatively affected his throws in the final weeks of the season. "
ESPN - Countdown Daily Insight Center: PIT-DEN - Video
KC Joyner thinks the Broncos will try to go after CB Ike Taylor on Monday
ESPN Insider - Steelers-Broncos: 10 observations - Gary Horton
"Pittsburgh 28, Denver 27"
Steelers News
PPG - On the Steelers: Clark unlikely to play Broncos - Ed Bouchette
PTR - Dependable Starks prepares for next test - Mark Kaboly
PTR - Roethlisberger pushing for no-huddle - Scott Brown
PTR - Clark unlikely to play Monday night - Scott Brown
BCT - Notebook: Something special in store for Harrison? - Mike Bires
BCT - Denver's new wrinkle on D - Mike Bires
AFC West News
USAT - As schedule toughens, Bolts ready to break out the Wildcat - Tom Pedulla
SDUT - Hardwick unlikely to play vs. Giants - Kevin Acee
FH - Chiefs Petition a Protest From the Heart - Dan Graziano
KCS - Bowe continues to be a work in progress - Kent Babb
KCS - Chiefs notebook: Signs, LJ suspension a coincidence - Kent Babb
KCS - Sign in Chiefs’ locker room is a childish distraction - Jason Whitlock
NFP - Cable-vision: worth another look - Robert Boland
FH - Yankees' Blueprint a Lesson for Al Davis - Nancy Gay
SFC - Remember Raiders fans, things can get worse - Ray Ratto
SFC - New father Gallery will give line boost
OT - NOW wants Raiders coach Tom Cable suspended - Steve Corkran
NFL News
NFL - Week 9 injuries: Rodgers sits again (as planned)
NFL - Dolphins' Porter claims officials apply different rules to Pats' Brady
NFL - Colts' defense takes another hit with CB Jackson lost for season
NFL - Bucs will start QB-of-future Freeman while honoring creamsicle past
NFL - Spagnuolo sticking with veteran Bulger as Rams' starting QB
NFL - Man convicted of attempted murder in shooting of ex-Jag Collier
NFL - Paulescu to become fourth Redskins punter this season
NFL Opinion
USAT - Mid-year corrections: How NFL's 32 can readjust & recover - Nate Davis
"The offense should be more dynamic as coach Josh McDaniels' playbook opens up. But the defense might need to self-scout after cracking in Baltimore."
ESPN - First-half awards and a look at potential second-half stars - Adam Schefter
"This season, when using play-action, Roethlisberger has a perfect 158.3 quarterback rating, completing 25 of 29 passes for five touchdowns and no interceptions"
SN - Time may be running out for struggling NFL QBs - Dennis Dillon
SI - NFL sacks are on decline, thanks to NFL protecting quarterbacks - Kerry J. Byrne
CBS - Most improved: Wideouts Rice, Austin, Jackson top list - Pete Prisco
USAT - Week 9 NFL game previews
NFL - Manning-Schaub showdown highlights Week 9 matchups - Gil Brandt
SN - Week 9 picks: Eagles, Cowboys battle for NFC East lead - Vinnie Iyer
"Steelers 20, Broncos 17"
NFP - The Player's Picks: Week 9 - Matt Bowen
"It will be close, but Kyle Orton moves the Broncos down the field to set up the winning FG as time expires."
SI - The Peter King Challenge
"Prediction: Denver Broncos 20, Pittsburgh Steelers 13"
SN - NFL Football Picks - Week 9
SN - Head-to-head: Saints are NFL's better undefeated team - Clifton Brown
SN - Head-to-head: Colts are NFL's better undefeated team - Vinnie Iyer
FH - Thursday-and-Long: Don't Sleep on the Dallas Cowboys - Dan Graziano
NFP - What is Roy Williams thinking in Big D? - Matt Bowen
"I’m the No. 1 receiver. But things are just going No. 2’s way," Williams said. WOW.
SI - Green Bay Packers can blame coaches for loss to Minnesota Vikings - Ross Tucker
NFL - Star running back relishing role with rebuilding Rams - Steve Wyche
NFL - Character issues are serious concern for Syracuse's Williams - Bucky Brooks
Special "The Browns and Redskins are Rudderless Organizations" Section
SI - George Kokinis lost Cleveland Browns struggle with Eric Mangini - Don Banks
NFP - Tavern talk: Lerner says Mangini will be back - Mike Lombardi
Y! - Browns owner needs to look in the mirror - Charles Robinson
NFP - Diner morning news: ‘Skins need a new plan - Mike Lombardi
Yet another insightful look at what's wrong with the Redskins and Browns organizations. As is often the case, a must-read from Lombardi.
NFL - Blache passionately defends Redskins owner Snyder from criticism
1 recs |
101 comments
|
Comments
Thanks Doug.
Man, we went from having an empty injury report to having lots of guys out of practice in about two weeks. Did the bye hurt us???
If Taylor Swift were to try and tackle me, I'd let her.
by kentuckybronco on Nov 6, 2009 6:13 AM MST reply actions 0 recs
Thanks Doug
McDaniels’ comment about Jarvis Moss was very interesting. Sounds like he’s their practice MVP because he’s doing a great job playing the role of the opponent’s playmaker. Would be nice to see that role give him confidence enough to reestablish his game and earn back some playing time. He’s always seemed like such a physical specimen but his head just hasn’t been in the right place. If anyone can turn him around, I think our coaches can.
Conversation nonstarters: hoping McDaniels fails, comparing Bears to Broncos, Cutler to Orton, apples to oranges, and casual drinkers to Raiders fans.
by broncosmontana on Nov 6, 2009 6:24 AM MST reply actions 0 recs
Thanks Doug
Real Power, comes with the realization that One cannot change the Moment;
only ones perception of it: Atitude! JQM
by UB3 on Nov 6, 2009 7:36 AM MST reply actions 0 recs
Dear Mark Kizla
I think we will leave the coaching decisions on running backs to Josh McDaniels and Bobby Turner
You need Moreno-Inside runner to set up Buck-Outside runner and vica versa. Plus Buck might still be hobbled by the ankle injury.
"No more my bad just make the play"-McJedi
by RockyMountainThunder on Nov 6, 2009 7:40 AM MST reply actions 0 recs
I'm no Kiszla fan.
He still owes MHR an apology for taking one member’s minority comment under a post and making that into the official opinion of MHR. His failure to apologize speaks volumes about him.
On the other hand, let’s be fair. Comparing Buckhalter’s YPC with Moreno, I have to agree with Kiszla. I’d rather see a committee system than having either guy out front, but Buckhalter is playing better right now.
Formerly known as HoosierTeacher or just HT.
"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe
by Steve Nichols on Nov 6, 2009 12:45 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Buckhalter
Had 8 carries for 16 yards against Baltimore. I thought Moreno looked better in that game.
by JeffG on Nov 6, 2009 7:53 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
No huddle
Who will this tire out more? The Denver D or the Pitt O-Line not used to playing at 5,000 feet?
by DickVMI on Nov 6, 2009 7:44 AM MST reply actions 0 recs
The Denver D.....duh!
The very existence of flamethrowers proves that some time, somewhere, someone said to themselves, "You know, I want to set those people over there on fire, but I'm just not close enough to get the job done."
-George Carlin
by Cdsumm on Nov 6, 2009 8:10 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Whoa.
"All by their heads, he places crowns."
by Tempestuous Binary on Nov 6, 2009 9:13 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs
I gotta say Seedy somthing
I have to disagree in an HONEST disagreement. your comment comes off lighthearted and jokingly and perhaps you meant it to, but I just don’t see our boys running out of steam at home before yours.
"I have not failed. I've just found 10,000 ways that won't work."
- Thomas Alva Edison
"Success is not a place at which one arrives, but rather... the spirit with which one undertakes and continues the journey."
- Alex Noble
by DenBronx on Nov 6, 2009 10:01 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs
More on this subject in today's Chalk Talk...
…on the front page now.
Formerly known as HoosierTeacher or just HT.
"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe
by Steve Nichols on Nov 6, 2009 12:46 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
YAY!!!!
HT hittin us with some more Chalk Talk…man I love this site
"I have not failed. I've just found 10,000 ways that won't work."
- Thomas Alva Edison
"Success is not a place at which one arrives, but rather... the spirit with which one undertakes and continues the journey."
- Alex Noble
by DenBronx on Nov 6, 2009 1:23 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Thanks Doug
Character may be manifested in the great moments but it is made in the small ones -- Philip Brooks
by KaptainKirk on Nov 6, 2009 8:00 AM MST reply actions 0 recs
Thanks, Doug.
"All by their heads, he places crowns."
by Tempestuous Binary on Nov 6, 2009 8:18 AM MST reply actions 0 recs
The no huddle
Just a question. D Logan on the broadcast vs. Baltimore was making the comment that the no huddle was limiting Broncos ability to shuffle in players. McD often made a point of keeping players fresh. Anyone heard McD address this? Is this a “correctable” adjustment or is there literally not enough time? Some have touted the “fresh players” approach as being the reason Denver had previously dominated in 2nd half and 4th quarter. What do you think or what responses have you heard this week?
by elimin8 on Nov 6, 2009 8:26 AM MST reply actions 0 recs
After watching
the Baltimore game live, McD swapped out players on O and D very often, and the hurry-up no huddle certainly limits their ability to continue doing that. Playing against a no-huddle makes it virtually impossible to address the swap-outs unless you end up just switching whole chunks of the defense whenever there is a clock stopping play.
"I have not failed. I've just found 10,000 ways that won't work."
- Thomas Alva Edison
"Success is not a place at which one arrives, but rather... the spirit with which one undertakes and continues the journey."
- Alex Noble
by DenBronx on Nov 6, 2009 10:03 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Heard Andra Davis
…say it did nothing to the defense. They were prepared for it.
by JeffG on Nov 6, 2009 7:55 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Expected to see lots of Graham and Quinn
With the Steelers down a 5-technique and with James Harrison on Polumbus, my bet is we see lots of 2-TE sets early. The Broncos could use the formation to run hard at the middle the defense (8th in YPC against) and provide extra hands on the line of scrimmage to mitigate the pass-rushing threat and the general zone-blitz craziness.
Anybody have thoughts as to why the Patrios matched up so well vs. the Steelers over the years? The Zone-blitz D is supposed to murder the kinds of check-down options on which the possession passing game thrives. And yet the Steelers always seem to wind up on the losing end….
Thanks as always, Doug.
by Chibronx on Nov 6, 2009 8:41 AM MST reply actions 0 recs
Anybody have thoughts as to why the Patriots matched up so well vs. the Steelers over the years
It helps when you video-tape the other teams signals.
" I’m glad we play Pitt twice, and not Tenn this year." - Salty Browns Fan.
by Johnny_S on Nov 6, 2009 9:20 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Nasty
Johnny_S…Steelers fans, and any other NFL fans for that matter, are welcome here. That does not give you the right to say nasty things. We spent some time here at MHR after McDaniels was hired regarding the Patriots spying incident. It is a non-issue and the consensus was that the taping would not have helped anyway.
As for why the Patriots matched up so well against the Stoolers….(I guess it is OK to needle you while in my own house)….(1) McDaniels was the Patriots offensive coordinator, (2) the Patriots simply executed their game plans better than the stoolers.
by Endzone on Nov 6, 2009 9:48 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Nasty? No, just a disagreement in what happened. I’m entitled to my opinion and I don’t believe there was any thing in the terms of agreement when I signed up that said I could not have one.
Also, saying it is a non-issue for you is easy when your team when did not “lose” twice in the AFCCG because of cheating.
" I’m glad we play Pitt twice, and not Tenn this year." - Salty Browns Fan.
by Johnny_S on Nov 6, 2009 9:55 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs
You lost because of cheating?
Nope. You lost because you did not execute. As I said, after LONG discussions, the concensus was that the videotaping incident did not help. Mainly because there are so many other ways to discover other teams’ signals. The “cheating” was videotaping at the wrong place on the field. EVERY GAME is videotaped by the NFL and EVERY SIGNAL is clearly visible in those tapes. The illegality was appropriately punished. But in no way did it help the Patriots any more than watching a standard NFL game tape. If you want to say your team lost because the Patriots videotaped from the sideline instead of using the NFL game tapes (that show the same identical thing), then go ahead. But you are wrong.
The “nasty” part is implying that our coach, a former Patriot coach, is a cheater by referring to the incident. I’m not saying you are a troll.
by Endzone on Nov 6, 2009 10:03 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs
But in no way did it help the Patriots any more than watching a standard NFL game tape
Then why were they punished? There seems to be a big hole in your argument. Clearly, there was a big advantage to the video-taping, or else BB would not have hid it and initially denied it.
I am not saying we “lost” because of the videotaping, but when your completely man-handle a team earlier in the year and then cannot seem to get anything done against them in the second match-up, its a bit suspicious.
I don’t believe nor did I ever say McD was a cheater. I’d argue that Belichek is the cheater and I am sure it was “his way or the high way”.
" I’m glad we play Pitt twice, and not Tenn this year." - Salty Browns Fan.
by Johnny_S on Nov 6, 2009 10:08 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Because
They were punished because there is an NFL rule against a team videotaping from the opponent’s sidelines. Wrong place, wrong time = punishment.
by Endzone on Nov 6, 2009 10:12 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs
And why else would you videotape from the opponent’s sidelines and not send the tapes to the NFL?
" I’m glad we play Pitt twice, and not Tenn this year." - Salty Browns Fan.
by Johnny_S on Nov 6, 2009 10:12 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs
I don't know
And frankly I don’t care. It does not help, so why do it? They did it, they were punished, end of story. To say you lost the games because of it is illogical. I can understand emotionally wanting to blame it for your loss(es), but it makes no logical sense.
by Endzone on Nov 6, 2009 10:17 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Actually, it makes complete logical sense. If I wanted to know how to stop someone, you know what would help? Knowing what they were going to do before they did it. That would help.
You can keep saying it did not help them, but in my opinion it helped them, a lot.
" I’m glad we play Pitt twice, and not Tenn this year." - Salty Browns Fan.
by Johnny_S on Nov 6, 2009 10:19 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Opinion
You are entitled to your opinion. You believe the illegal tapes helped. Most people do not. Mainly because you can easily get the same signals from NFL game tape. Teams change signals from game to game. And most signals are now given wirelessly to the QB or Defense captain.
Now if we are talking about illegally taping practices before a playoff game, then absolutely positively they would help and the team should be severely punished. But we are talking about gameday tapes. The NFL tells you you can watch and tape anywhere but at X and you tape at X then you are punished. As I said, we went over this whole issue ad nauseum here at MHR after McD was hired so I understand that you may be a bit behind on the discussion. It was even brought up again before our game against the Patriots this year.
by Endzone on Nov 6, 2009 10:28 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Lol
Why do you automatically believe that I am ignorant on the subject because I disagree with you?
This has been discussed probably 10-fold over at BTSC than it has here, considering we were the main team being discussed in those affected by the scandal (see AFCCG 2001 & AFCCG 2004).
I believe most people here might agree with you, since they don’t want to have their coach entangled in any kind of cheating controversy. I think if someone did a poll of the country and asked them what they though, the majority would believe this. Oh wait, ESPN did that.
Did the Patriots gain an advantage over their opponents by videotaping their signals?
46.7% Significant advantage
30.0% Slight advantage
23.3% No advantage
" I’m glad we play Pitt twice, and not Tenn this year." - Salty Browns Fan.
by Johnny_S on Nov 6, 2009 10:37 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs
OK
I never said you were ignorant. And I was wrong for saying “most people.” I should have said “most people here at MHR.” [p.s. I hate it when I use “most”, “everyone”, etc.] But seriously, an ESPN poll? Now that makes me laugh! Seriously! It did make me laugh.
Back to serious…say you want a loaf of bread. You go to the store and buy it. You don’t steal it, right? Same loaf of bread, different method of acquisition. Use the NFL tapes = buying the bread, illegally videotaping = stealing the bread. SAME LOAF OF BREAD. That is the point, simply put. You gain no real advantage.
by Endzone on Nov 6, 2009 10:47 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs
If you have a poll that polls the entire country that is not ESPN go ahead, but that’s the only sports people I know that can generate polls like that.
Anyway, I’m still not buying it. I’ll keep thinking my way and you can keep thinking your way.
" I’m glad we play Pitt twice, and not Tenn this year." - Salty Browns Fan.
by Johnny_S on Nov 6, 2009 10:57 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs
The fact that ESPN hosted that poll is actually significant. Don't act like they are some kind of ignorant sell-out losers.
They know their stuff. You don’t have to agree with it all, and frankly, what fun would their be in that anyways?
But ESPN resides in beautiful Conneticut, which is…wait…checks map nestled directly below Massachusetts?? Revelation
It’s long been known the folks at ESPN, generally speaking, get overly giddy when the Patriots do well. For them to host this poll, and the nation outside the borders of “Patriot Land” speak, and speak so overwhelmingly, it says something.
"If I could start my life all over again, I would be a professional football player and you damn well better believe I would be a Pittsburgh Steeler." -- #58
by __.58.__ on Nov 6, 2009 1:21 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Unless that "loaf f bread" happens to be YOUR loaf of bread.
If theirs one loaf left, and you need to feed yoru famly and it’s the only store around, and you worked your ass off for a whole week straight to buy that loaf…
YES< you’d be pissed if someone walked in front of you, grabbed it out of your hand as you are in line to buy it, and runs out the door.
Your analogy is flawed. This is the correct way to look at it.
They lessened our chances at winning those games. They increased theirs. End of story. Team of the decade? Hardly.
"If I could start my life all over again, I would be a professional football player and you damn well better believe I would be a Pittsburgh Steeler." -- #58
by __.58.__ on Nov 6, 2009 1:24 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
The Point
Is that the same signals were available legitimately through NFL game tapes. It wasn’t the only loaf of bread.
ESPN, by and large, imo, ARE ignorant sell-out losers. Online polls are notoriously unreliable. Often because the one’s who respond are the one’s who are the most outraged. Yet you go on to imply that ESPN may have more credibility for hosting the poll just because they are in Patriots country? hmmmm.
The Steelers lost to the better team. That’s the bottom line.
by Endzone on Nov 6, 2009 1:52 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Every team in the NFL do some shady things to get a leverage,
some get caught some don’t. End of story.
by bfree2bronc on Nov 6, 2009 10:49 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs
True, and that’s how I answered his question. Wasn’t really looking to debate it.
" I’m glad we play Pitt twice, and not Tenn this year." - Salty Browns Fan.
by Johnny_S on Nov 6, 2009 10:51 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs
lol
people here are always looking for a good debate. I speculate that it stems from our highamounts of traffic, and certain slow periods where there is not much new to read….this leads to boredom and mild aggression which then leads to Debate (hopefully)
"I have not failed. I've just found 10,000 ways that won't work."
- Thomas Alva Edison
"Success is not a place at which one arrives, but rather... the spirit with which one undertakes and continues the journey."
- Alex Noble
by DenBronx on Nov 6, 2009 10:55 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Well I have to admit, you guys definitely have the best run/organized football blog on SBN that I have seen (that includes BTSC). There are a lot of very well-informed and good writers here. Also, I don’t see a lot of pointless or negative fanposts. Kudos to you all.
" I’m glad we play Pitt twice, and not Tenn this year." - Salty Browns Fan.
by Johnny_S on Nov 6, 2009 11:00 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs
We appreciate your props
And it is always nice to be noticed for doing things correctly. We certainly (and I don’t mean to speak for everyone though I’m sure I coud) pride ourselves on running a classy, well-informed, and realistically positive orginization.
We certainly welcome all visitors from other teams who follow our mantra of being civil, and backing arguments with facts.
"I have not failed. I've just found 10,000 ways that won't work."
- Thomas Alva Edison
"Success is not a place at which one arrives, but rather... the spirit with which one undertakes and continues the journey."
- Alex Noble
by DenBronx on Nov 6, 2009 11:04 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Ditto what Denbronx said.
If Taylor Swift were to try and tackle me, I'd let her.
by kentuckybronco on Nov 6, 2009 12:12 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
+1
AND…I’d like to add, as passionate about the points of view that I have, none of them should be taken as personal attacks. In fact, most often I’ll be pretty damn polite. I like people.
Case in point, I was at the AFCCG in Denver in ’05, and had a great time with the Broncos fans that were there. Very polite, very cool folks. Even was invited by one of the girls to tailgate with her and her friends afterwards. Broncos fans! Good times.
So Bronco fans, know that you have good people in Denver. :)
"If I could start my life all over again, I would be a professional football player and you damn well better believe I would be a Pittsburgh Steeler." -- #58
by __.58.__ on Nov 6, 2009 1:28 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
I do agree,
Its not like Johnny mentioned something that wasn’t proven, common knowledge. EZ please don’t make me defend our opponents and try and make good calls before you yell troll….its pains me to be an o-line for the enemy ROFL
anyways yes it does help a little when you tape signals…..BUT!!! thats hardly the reason the pats match up well against the Aluminium-ers…….
Smart teams don’t keep the same signals all year, or even each game.
"I have not failed. I've just found 10,000 ways that won't work."
- Thomas Alva Edison
"Success is not a place at which one arrives, but rather... the spirit with which one undertakes and continues the journey."
- Alex Noble
by DenBronx on Nov 6, 2009 9:59 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs
proven, common knowledge
That the incident occurred is proven, common knowledge.
Maybe you were not here at MHR when we went over in excruciating detail whether the incident helped the Patriots or not. The bottom line is that it did not help. All signals are videotaped already. The error was videotaping from the sideline using their own cameras and the tape was not sent to the NFL.
I did not yell troll. I just threw a penalty flag for roughing the coach.
by Endzone on Nov 6, 2009 10:08 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs
lol
I was not here when you did, but I believe my comment agreed with yours lol. I was also making a lighthearted joke btw.
"I have not failed. I've just found 10,000 ways that won't work."
- Thomas Alva Edison
"Success is not a place at which one arrives, but rather... the spirit with which one undertakes and continues the journey."
- Alex Noble
by DenBronx on Nov 6, 2009 10:30 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs
That isn't how I recall it Endzone.
There was disagreement on how much affect there was. Granted. But there was no conclusion drawn.
What “is” common knowledge is that NE cheated (they were sanctioned too), and that they had been warned previously about this behavior. If filming another teams play callers is not advantagous, why would a team be foolish enough to do it and break the NFL rules? Apparently NE thought it would help.
The only disagreement at MHR seemed to be how stiff the penalty should be.
Formerly known as HoosierTeacher or just HT.
"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe
by Steve Nichols on Nov 6, 2009 12:55 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Just because you went over it in esxcruciating detail doesn't mean you came to the correct conclusion.
My question would also be: WHEN did you do this massive analysis?
If your answer is AFTER McDaniels was hired, or during the process of being hired, your conclusion could be influenced by a deep desire to exorcise or minimize possible demons from an incident which your incoming coach was involved in. But, like I said, not sure when you did that dissection.
"If I could start my life all over again, I would be a professional football player and you damn well better believe I would be a Pittsburgh Steeler." -- #58
by __.58.__ on Nov 6, 2009 1:32 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
In fairness...
Johnny_S is opining on NE, not the Broncos. We shouldn’t take it so personaly.
And for what it is worth, I still believe that the NE head coach cheated (he did), and had been caught at the same behavior and reprimanded in other games (most notably a GB game, where the same filmer was ejected).
My shock is that the Patriots didn’t have to pay a stiffer penalty for what they did. It broke the rules, went to competitive advantage, and wasn’t the first time.
Respectfuly, I have to agree with Johnny on this one. (In fairness, there was a split on this issue. Most notably, John B. didn’t think the issue was as big a deal as I did).
Formerly known as HoosierTeacher or just HT.
"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe
by Steve Nichols on Nov 6, 2009 12:51 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Actually...
It did not appear that Johnny_S said anything “nasty.”
What it appears more so than anything is scraping a scab tat you wish was not assiciated with your head coach.
Nothing he mentioned was even 1/80th as offensiv or inflammatory as you referring to the Steelers as the “Stoolers.”
And just as a future oint of reference, if the nickname fits, or is appropriate somehow, use it in good taste. “Stoolers” has no ties to any pop culture, NFL, or any other reference I’m aware of. You just thought it clever to replace the “E’s” in the name with “O’s” thus making a reference to feces. Brilliant. And very 7th grade.
"If I could start my life all over again, I would be a professional football player and you damn well better believe I would be a Pittsburgh Steeler." -- #58
by __.58.__ on Nov 6, 2009 1:02 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
lol
Glad the nickname disturbed you .58. steelers fan. I would NEVER say such a thing on your site, but I have seen it on many other sites. As you know, there are derogatory names for every NFL team.
HT is right. I overreacted and took Johnny_s’ comment as a backhanded slap at McDaniels rather than merely a response regarding NE’s dominance over your team.
by Endzone on Nov 6, 2009 1:11 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
No disturbing being done.
Just think, overall, it’s immature. :)
"If I could start my life all over again, I would be a professional football player and you damn well better believe I would be a Pittsburgh Steeler." -- #58
by __.58.__ on Nov 6, 2009 1:34 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
The Patriots did cheat
The videotaping was absolute cheating.
But so was taking Steroids in the 70’s-Steelers
Hello Terry Bradshaw-Roid Rage-Sound familiar
Check this out
"No more my bad just make the play"-McJedi
by RockyMountainThunder on Nov 6, 2009 9:53 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Can't get the link to work today
http://grg51.typepad.com/steroid_nation/2006/07/curse_of_the_st.html
"No more my bad just make the play"-McJedi
by RockyMountainThunder on Nov 6, 2009 9:54 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Ahhhhh......
I think you would be pretty hard-pressed to find a team in the 70’s that wasn’t taking steroids.
The very existence of flamethrowers proves that some time, somewhere, someone said to themselves, "You know, I want to set those people over there on fire, but I'm just not close enough to get the job done."
-George Carlin
by Cdsumm on Nov 6, 2009 9:59 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs
or nose candy for that matter
"I have not failed. I've just found 10,000 ways that won't work."
- Thomas Alva Edison
"Success is not a place at which one arrives, but rather... the spirit with which one undertakes and continues the journey."
- Alex Noble
by DenBronx on Nov 6, 2009 10:00 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs
From most of what I've read
Steroid use became really rampant in the early 80’s but a lot of former players like Jim Haslett point to the dominance of the Steelers in the 70’s as the tipping off point of players getting motivated to take roids.
I present to you-Lyle Alzado.
"No more my bad just make the play"-McJedi
by RockyMountainThunder on Nov 6, 2009 10:01 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Wasn’t every team?
" I’m glad we play Pitt twice, and not Tenn this year." - Salty Browns Fan.
by Johnny_S on Nov 6, 2009 10:01 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Does that make it okay?
"No more my bad just make the play"-McJedi
by RockyMountainThunder on Nov 6, 2009 10:02 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs
No, but singling out the Steelers and saying tsk tsk on them doesn’t make any sense.
" I’m glad we play Pitt twice, and not Tenn this year." - Salty Browns Fan.
by Johnny_S on Nov 6, 2009 10:03 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Every NFL Team
I believe that every NFL team has its skeletons. Patriots “spygate”, Broncos cap errors, etc. etc.
by Endzone on Nov 6, 2009 10:10 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs
You've made some good points Johnny S
I’m going to research if it was more widespread, I’m not totally convinced it was but I am willing to withold jugement until I dig a little deeper. And I don’t mean I’ll just research the internet because there is a lot of crap out there.
Also welcome to MHR. Keep up the good work over at Behind the Steel Curtain
"No more my bad just make the play"-McJedi
by RockyMountainThunder on Nov 6, 2009 10:24 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs
I’m going to research this a little more and see if it was more widespread than I think and if I am being unfair.
BTW, welcome to the MHR. Friendly passionate debate is always welcome. As are you.
"No more my bad just make the play"-McJedi
by RockyMountainThunder on Nov 6, 2009 10:26 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs
You're right, Johnny
No, but singling out the Steelers and saying tsk tsk on them doesn’t make any sense.
That’s exactly right, which makes the former disagreement regarding the Pats kind of pointless. Many coaches in the league and not a small number of players admitted that their teams did the same that the Pats did – they just didn’t get caught.
While it’s become fashionable to blame the videotaping for the Pats success, it’s a thin excuse. Bill Belichick and Ernie Adams, his assistant, are just two of the best in the league at breaking down film and analyzing weaknesses that they can exploit.
Belichick grew up in a football family, his father wrote a book on scouting and was justifiably famous for his skill at that craft and Steve Belichick taught his skills to Bill. Bill B took it to an even higher level. Belichick and Adams used to break down film when they were in their early teens and both got into the NFL by being unusually talented at doing so. They are also superb at preparing their team, year after year. That is why they keep winning. Belichick’s studies of economics and his application of econ theory to the salary cap, as well as how he’s put together his teams, has also led to a continued advantage. I put together more on that here and here.
Belichick gets a lot of criticism from people that he has kept beating over the years. That’s to be expected, but in the end, he’s just extremely good at his job. The Steelers are a great organization and have had many great teams, but Belichick has been excellent at finding and exploiting their weaknesses. This Monday will tell us if Josh McDaniels was able to use that same information or not – should be a great game.
Moreno/Buckhalter in '09
by Emmett Smith on Nov 6, 2009 11:56 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs
And Belicheat did this how, exactly, when he coached the Browns?
Right. A master at breaking down game film and preparing his players. Must have all came together for him after he left the state of Ohio.
"If I could start my life all over again, I would be a professional football player and you damn well better believe I would be a Pittsburgh Steeler." -- #58
by __.58.__ on Nov 6, 2009 1:07 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Every team in the 70's was taking steroids, you doof.
So the Steelers taking them were no different than any of the other players, the other MANY MANY MANY players, taking them. Hell, most team doctors were prescribing them. Nothing under the table about any of that! And Bradhsaw taking them? PLease. Whatever. He took them to recover from getting the snot beat out of him on some Sundays.
And not only that, steroids were 100% legal.
Try again to make something asinine stick. You lose.
"If I could start my life all over again, I would be a professional football player and you damn well better believe I would be a Pittsburgh Steeler." -- #58
by __.58.__ on Nov 6, 2009 1:05 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
now now .58.
Not appropriate to use “doof” or “asinine” We try, and sometimes fail, to take the high road here.
btw, what does the .58. mean? Not that it has to, but does it refer to anything?
by Endzone on Nov 6, 2009 1:16 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
It refers to the fact that he's
a Steelers fan (in case that wasn’t obvious). #58 was Jack Lambert’s number.
The commenter formerly known as "Dashiell".
by underdog on Nov 6, 2009 1:22 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Yep, you got it. :)
Loved the guy.
"If I could start my life all over again, I would be a professional football player and you damn well better believe I would be a Pittsburgh Steeler." -- #58
by __.58.__ on Nov 6, 2009 1:40 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
OK, you got me...
I said “doof.”
NOT cool of me, I admit. That was outside my normal mantra of keeping it out of being personal. :) Apologies!
But asinine…I’ll stay with that one, because really…being labeled as the team that started the whole steroids thing, really…that’s absurd. I noticed RockyMountainThunder is going to research the subject of how rampant ’roids were in the ’70s, but I can guarantee you, it was VERY rampant.
"If I could start my life all over again, I would be a professional football player and you damn well better believe I would be a Pittsburgh Steeler." -- #58
by __.58.__ on Nov 6, 2009 1:38 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Apology Accepted
So I’m learning a lot as I do my research and I might have to do a full on fanpost if anybody would be interested. It would not just be about the Steelers but about the history of steroid us in the NFL.
At this point I will say that most likely every team had at least one player utilizing steroids in the 70’s, However, there is more evidence about more Steelers taking them. Is this because it was more prevalent with the Steelers or was it because we care more about them cause they were a dynasty and nobody cares if the Buccaneers of the 70’s used steroids because they started like 2-26.
But as a tease I will leave you with this. My article will begin with an assistant in 1963 who worked for….the San Diego Chargers. There also was another assistant on that SD staff in 1963, and he was a young Chuck Noll.
"No more my bad just make the play"-McJedi
by RockyMountainThunder on Nov 6, 2009 2:56 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
"Always?"
"If I could start my life all over again, I would be a professional football player and you damn well better believe I would be a Pittsburgh Steeler." -- #58
by __.58.__ on Nov 6, 2009 12:18 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
58 - You should consider doing a little reading
Belichick had many issue when eh was coach of the Browns. Being able to take apart film wasn’t one of them. I’m not sure what is making you hostile, but stay and join in some rational, civil discourse. That’s the standard here, Ok?
Moreno/Buckhalter in '09
by Emmett Smith on Nov 6, 2009 2:56 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Clayton
He has no clue what he’s talking about when it comes to Orton’s ankle injury last year and how severe it was.
by rocko1 on Nov 6, 2009 9:32 AM MST reply actions 0 recs
"Sore Ankle"
HUGE difference between a “sore ankle” and the high ankle sprain that Orton had last year.
by Endzone on Nov 6, 2009 9:50 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Clayton goes on to talk about Orton's "weak" arm.
I think Orton should have a “Chris Everette” moment with Clayton. That would be hilarious.
Formerly known as HoosierTeacher or just HT.
"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe
by Steve Nichols on Nov 6, 2009 12:58 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
He talks about his weak arm...
Because he has a weak arm, and your coach knows it, the team knows it, and the rest of the league knows it.
Just because you can’t get over the fact that your once-Messiah-turned-Judas is heaving (and sucking) in Chicago, and his replacement has a limp noodle for a cannon errr…arm, I don;t think it would be wise to have any false allusions of yoru QB being something he’s not.
Your two best WR’s are averaging 10ypc, and 8ypc. This is not your Father’s Elway-slingin’-Broncs. This Brocos offense is a decidedly “Dink & Dunk” offense, PERIOD.
A couple “IFS” for you to think about:
IF…the Broncos had a strong armed QB, with a prolific pedigree and physical gifts oozing from every pore…Don’t you think the coach would want to open the offense up a little bit, give the fans a little razzle dazzle for their shnazzle?
IF…That QB was actually on your roster, don’t you think it would behoove your fresh-faced team leader to allow said QB to throw like a wildman to a couple very good WRs who have a past track record of being downfield threats.
IF….that was the case, I have no doubt that both those scenarios would take place. But your coach KNOWS that QB is not on the roster at the present time.
"If I could start my life all over again, I would be a professional football player and you damn well better believe I would be a Pittsburgh Steeler." -- #58
by __.58.__ on Nov 6, 2009 1:16 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
He doesn't have a "weak arm"
He also doesn’t have a John Elway brand rocket launcher arm either. That much we can agree on. He’s also not Juan Pierre or Johnny Damon playing QB back there either, which seems to be what you’re implying. Yah, the coach knows his strengths and weaknesses, but I’ve also witnessed first hand Orton throwing very deep accurate balls. In fact he threw one this year that was just an end of the half hail mary pass which actually led to his one interception but it was famous around here because it was right when Phil Simms said he didn’t think Orton could throw it that deep and he chucked it 60 yards. I’ve seen him throw other deep balls well too. But no, he’s not Cutler or Elway when it comes to arm strength. Who cares?
The commenter formerly known as "Dashiell".
by underdog on Nov 6, 2009 1:25 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed.
I guess my min point is that he is not known for his arm. When Simms communicated his surprise, there’s a little proof right there.
As far as him being able to slin git, of course…to get to this level, you have to have SOME deep ball rocket toss ability. But the great ones have always been able to use it, and have mastery over it. Orton does not have mastery over it, or my opinion is McDaniels would be exploiting this talent.
Of course…watch McDaneils know about the gift Orton’s been hiding, dink and dunk the Broncos to the playoffs, then unleash the cannon arm as a total surprise, and capture a Lombardi!
or….. :)
"If I could start my life all over again, I would be a professional football player and you damn well better believe I would be a Pittsburgh Steeler." -- #58
by __.58.__ on Nov 6, 2009 1:44 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
I still think Orton's pretty darned accurate
which to me is the most important thing, and rather than just on dink and dunk passes he’s accurate on mid-range, middle of the field and sideline passes too which are key. So he doesn’t have a cannon but he has a stronger arm than people think, which is my point.
And some of us here joked about Simms comments being partially because his son is the Broncos backup QB, and does have a strong arm. So he may have been biased. ;-)
The commenter formerly known as "Dashiell".
by underdog on Nov 6, 2009 1:55 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Assumption are Not Facts
You say he has a weak arm and everybody knows it. That is your assumption admittedly shared by many. It is simply not true based on all available statistics. You are using a logical fallacy (Argumentum ad Populum (Literally “Argument to the People”)).
IF … NO, the coach is doing what he thinks is best for the team to win, not what will give the fans a little razzle dazzle. NO…he would NEVER allow the QB to throw like a wildman. NO…Clayton does not know what he is talking about.
by Endzone on Nov 6, 2009 1:26 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
It's one thing to put up with the home town morons who keep making this argument.
It’s another to have to put up with out of town visitors crapping on your QB without having any idea what they are talking about.
Jack Lambert was a gap-toothed hick.
by JeffG on Nov 6, 2009 8:04 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Driving me crazy waiting for this game
Feels like it’s been two weeks since the Broncos last played! ;-) (Since last Sunday’s game didn’t happen.)
The extra day could help with a few of those minor injuries though.
And thanks as always for the linkapalooza, Doug.
The commenter formerly known as "Dashiell".
by underdog on Nov 6, 2009 9:57 AM MST reply actions 0 recs
Just saying, but...
Looks like they may not “be playing” for at least another couple weeks. :)
"If I could start my life all over again, I would be a professional football player and you damn well better believe I would be a Pittsburgh Steeler." -- #58
by __.58.__ on Nov 6, 2009 12:19 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Thanks nyc for the Tracks...
I have one word that will define this game Monday night…Stamina. When their hands are propped on their hips and their mouth is gapping wide open, then put the hammer down.
by bfree2bronc on Nov 6, 2009 10:56 AM MST reply actions 0 recs
Let's Try That Again....
Let me rephrase the initial question that touched off the long discussion above. Why did the Patriots’ offensive system work better against the Steelers than against other upper-tier AFC teams, such as the Broncos? If you want to insist on the cheating angle, why did he cheat more effectively against the Steelers than others?
The initial question was serious. The Patriots seemed to pose a match-up problem for the steelers (even taking down a 15-1 Steelers team, if I recall correctly). Why?
by Chibronx on Nov 6, 2009 1:10 PM MST reply actions 0 recs
Excellent Question
IMO, it is an “any given sunday” when they executed better than the Steelers. If memory serves, they relied more on their passing game when playing the Steelers. The Steelers defense didn’t step up. And the Patriots defense did enough to keep them in the game.
by Endzone on Nov 6, 2009 1:55 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
That's a good answer
“Any given Sunday” is often true, but difficult to accept as an answer because it seems anecdotal. But just like the Ravens game last week, my recollection is that the Pats wanted it more. Thanks for steering us away from grandiose explanations.
by Chibronx on Nov 6, 2009 2:35 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Breaking News
Ty Law set to sign with Broncos. Just has to pass a physical tonight.
Moreno 09 and beyond!!!
by BroncoKO on Nov 6, 2009 1:29 PM MST via mobile reply actions 0 recs
link?
And why would we sign Ty Law? That makes no sense. Our CB’s are awesome.
by Endzone on Nov 6, 2009 1:34 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
see new MHR post
above for more on Law.
The commenter formerly known as "Dashiell".
by underdog on Nov 6, 2009 1:56 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Both Jack Williams and Alphonso Smith
have nagging injuries.
Signing Law makes sense in that it takes the pressure off those two to perform (excel, even) week in and week out while not at a 100%. Gives them the time they need to fully recover.
Plus just adds another legendary secondary player for all our young-uns to learn from.
"You can make mistakes, but you are not a failure until you blame others for those mistakes." -John Wooden
by Randall15 on Nov 6, 2009 2:34 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
If you are calling the last few weeks of play from MF Williams and A Smith awesome, you have very low standards for CB play.
Those guys need to step it up or the coach will find guys that can.
This is my favorite website.
by McGeorge on Nov 6, 2009 2:54 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Bad Hair Day?
Feeling a little hostile today McG?
by Endzone on Nov 6, 2009 3:11 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Depth.
"If I could start my life all over again, I would be a professional football player and you damn well better believe I would be a Pittsburgh Steeler." -- #58
by __.58.__ on Nov 6, 2009 1:45 PM MST reply actions 0 recs

by 






















