MHR Chalk Talk - Pittsburgh Steelers at Denver Broncos MNF ('09, wk 8)
Folks, this is the game I've been waiting for all season. There is an awful lot to look at between these two teams, and from a purely Xs and Os standpoint, this game should be a feast for football lovers.
The Steelers are the defending SB champions. Their young coach had to start under the shadow of a big name. This is a team that has excellent players in just about every facet of the game, and they are used very well by the coach.
The Broncos have emerged from a few years wandering the wilderness, and have a near perfect record. Their young coach had to start out in the shadow of a big name. Excellent players? Check. Great coaching? Check.
And this game will be on Monday night. Does it get any better?
Read on....
Offensive Postion Analysis
I'm going to break this week down a little differently than what we're used to. Let's start with my comparison of the teams' units.
QB - PIT
Let's face it; Kyle Orton is for real. His 95.5 rating is due in big part to a lack of INTs. In 7 games, he has 1 INT thrown on a "hail Mary" pass to close out a half. Orton makes his living in Denver by throwing screens, hitches, and curls. He is willing to throw the ball away or to take a sack rather than throw an INT. This looks ugly to many fans, but it demonstrates a style of play that isn't what Denver fans are used to. Gone are the "gamble and scramble" days. Orton doesn't gamble; he picks his targets or throws off. Boring? Yes. Effective? It wins games.
But "Big Ben" is an established QB, with a lot of good football behind (and ahead) of him. He does it all. Ben Roethlisberger can throw and run, and has experience up to and including the Super Bowl. His rating is 102.6
Ben gets that rating by completing his passes. Where Orton is at a career best 63.6 completion percentage, Big Ben is at 70.4. Both QBs are good at what they do, and Orton has been terribly underrated. But I have to give Ben the advantage here.
WR - tie
Santonio Holmes and Hines Ward are two big names in the NFL football ranks. While the Steelers have always been a tough, smash mouth team, they are airing out the ball this year. Holmes and Ward have been a big part of the 5-2 start. Both players are not only key in the pass game, but can get physical and run block as well. These guys present a solid 1-2 punch.
Denver isn't lacking either. Brandon Marshall has estabalished himself as a real star this year. Changing his mind on being a hold out, and (it is to be hoped) having put the off field issues behind him, Marshall has proven that he is a physical receiver who can run you over. Against the Cowboys though, he proved he can zig and zag through a defense too. Opposite Marshall is Eddie Royal, who garnered 2 returns for TDs in a game. A legit #1 receiver, Royal has speed and cuts that make him a deadly threat if he catches the ball in full stride. Denver's hidden strength is depth at WR, with route specialist Jabar Gaffney and smart / physical Brandon Stokley equaly deadly at the slot position.
TE - DEN
This is a tougher call than many Denver fans might think. Obviously, Daniel Graham is a monster blocker with good hands, and Tony Scheffler is a receiver in a TEs tough body. And yes, Richard Quinn is a tough blocking rookie. Yes, I'll take Denver. But don't be fooled, because Pittsburgh is loaded too.
Heath Miller is an excellent TE, as is Matt Spaeth. David Johnson can be brought in for a 3-TE look, and (in fact) I would call PITT one of three teams capable of playing 3 TE sets on a consistent basis this year if they wanted to. (DEN and NE are the other two, based on history with the formation and other factors).
I give Denver a slight edge here.
RB - DEN
You have to love Correll Buckhalter. Anyone who averages 6 yards per carry this far into the season is a keeper. His 18 receptions aren't shabby either. Rookie Knowshon Moreno has been getting his feet wet, and owns a 3.9 average.
Rashard Mendenhall is a power running back who has better speed and elusiveness than most power runners. His 5.4 average is very, very good. PIT could run the ball a lot more with this kid if they wanted to. The only criticism I've heard is that he can fumble the ball. He has two fumbles (both for losses) this year, but that's better than Moreno (3 fumbles - all lost) and tied with Buckhalter (also two fumbles, but lost one).
OL - DEN
The most notable issue for Denver is the loss of RT Ryan Harris. One of the best RTs in the League, he'll be missed this week. While I think Tyler Polumbus can hold his own against most teams, I respect the Steeler's defense, and TE Daniel Graham will likely need to be limited to Pass blocking duty to offset the loss.
Denver's other strength is LT Ryan Clady, who is arguably one of the best offensive tackles in the NFL today, and still young. And while Ben Hamilton and Chris Kuper are both very good at what they do, Center Casey Wiegmann is the real anchor in the middle of the OL.
Denver's only weakness on the OL is the lack of power for short yardage. Denver seems to be asking the athletic and agile lineman to assist with power runs up the gut, something they aren't built for. As the season has worn on, Denver has gotten further from their zone blocking tradition. For what it is worth (and in the eyes of Denver's coaching staff, it isn't going to be worth anything), I think Denver needs to get back to the ZB. If Denver wants to transition into a typical run blocking scheme, then they should at least play to the current strength of the OL players. The ZB is always run as a short yardage play, with the very real possibilty that it will break open. Right now, we don't have the bodies to support dives and slams.
On the other hand, if PIT has a weakness, I think it is the OL. Big Ben has been sacked 20 times this year, and faces a terrific pass rush from Denver. I think the OL is improving, but they have a ways to go.
Offensive Overview
Denver's rankings - stats and (rank) Pittsburgh's rankings - stats and (rank)
Avg pt.s per game - 20 (20th) 23.9 (14th)
Yards avg per game - 344.6 (14th) 383 (6th)
Pass avg per game - 221.4 (16th) 276 (5th)
Rush avg per game - 123.1 (11th) 107 (19th)
Folks, we need to wake up and smell the coffee. We are not in the top ten in any single offensive category I've listed. There is no room for Orton bashing. It is clear that Orton is doing his job, and doing it well. A QB rating in the 90s means a good QB, and we've seen what our receivers can do. We are also over 100 yards per game rushing, which is the classic standard. But we have some things to address, and we need to move fast.
First, we need to fix our short yardage issues in the running game. Next, we need to start getting TDs. A 6-1 record is a good thing, and each of our players are doing a good job. But if we are going to make the playoffs, we will need to be able to put up more points.
I wrote in last weeks article that Denver is NOT a shoot out team. We have come back from poor 1st halfs all year, but we can't rack up points if the opposing team decides to make the game high tempo. It was a major key for Baltimore last week, and they executed. Like NE, Denver likes to accumulate small advantages and chip away at the other team, winning close if neccassary. But Denver needs to be more like NE in another respect; Denver needs to be able to run up scores when needed.
At this point in the season, Denver has a cushion to find out what the problems are (6-1). But we'll need to see some adjustments quickly. Coach McDaniels has proven that he can make adjustments during half time. Now we need to see if he can make adjustments over the course of a season, which is a completely different skill set for a coach.
PITT has the better QB, and the better passing game. PITT's only concern is the OL, but that is a big concern. I think PITT's running game could be better if they committed to the run, but they haven't needed to. If we were comparing offenses, I would give the advatage to PITT. They beat us in everything except running the ball. But folks, we don't compare the same units (off vs off). We compare offenses to defenses. Before we do that, let's look at the defenses so that we'll know what to compare.
Defensive Position Analysis
We have two great defenses lining up this week, and this is a real treat for fans of defense. I love the Iron Curtain almost as much as I love the Orange Crush. This year, both units are in elite form.
DL - PITT
Just how good is the PITT DL? Consider this. Aaron Smith goes down for the season. Losing a starting DE is a rough thing to deal with. Then his back-up goes down for this week (Travis Kirschke). Does PITT panic? Not at all. Ziggy Hood and Nick Eason step into the gap without missing a beat. Like Denver, PITT is ok with rotations on the line, and they have depth.
Denver (on the other hand) may not see Ryan McBean at LDE this week (LDG if you consider the DEnver defense to be a true 5-2). This is a bigger problem for Denver. Denver rotates the line too, but I wouldn't yet put the defensive line in PITT's league. I'm not saying that the Denver DL isn't good by any stretch. I'm just saying that we are great, but PITT is excellent.
OLBs - DEN
I don't care if we call them DEs or OLBs, but Denver is stacked at the position and can rotate all day long.
One guy to keep in place is Elvis Dumervil. With 10 sacks for the season, you can bet that PITT is scheming to stop him. Playing at RDE (ROLB), Doom is a sack master who uses his low center of gravity and long wingspan to out-judo his opponents in the bull rush, and uses speed and agility to get around blockers when rushed wide.
Denver can sprinkle in Mario Haggan, Darrell Reid, and Robert Ayers to stay fresh. (Watch for PITT to counter with the no-huddle. More on this later).
At ILB, Denver has Andra Davis, who has been rejuventated playing in Denver. Davis uses strength and leverage to get his way. To his right, D.J. Williams continues to be the anchor for the LBs. His skill set is based more on speed and agility, but he is as tough as nails and not a light LB. Even back-ups Spencer Larsen and Wesley Woodyard are dangerous when put on the field.
PITT also has an excellent LB corps. There is some concern about whether Lawrence Timmons (RILB) will be able to play on Monday. I expect him to show up, and to play 100%. Like talking about the DL, I may sound like I'm putting down a unit because I pick the other. Not so. Both teams have great DLs, and I gave the edge to PITT. Both teams have great LBs, but I'll give the edge to Denver.
CBs - DEN
Some folks will find fault with the PITT CBs. Not me. Ike Taylor is a good CB, and so is William Gay. Both are fundementaly sound, underrated, and a terrific tandem. (Watch Ike for blitzes. He is one of the best blitzing CBs in the League. If he doesn't get to the QB, he still typicaly causes hurry ups. He may be moved between left and right CB as well).
However, they are nothing near Champ Bailey and Andre' Goodman. Bailey is going to the Hall of Fame some day, and Goodman is playing better ball in Denver than in Miami. In fact, he's doing it even though he's going to get a lot of throws his way when QBs avoid Bailey.
And while Jack Williams is ill, Denver does fine with rookie Alphonso Smith playing at nickle.
SAF - DEN
Both teams have excellent safeties. Denver has the player that revolutionized the safety position - Weapon X - Brian Dawkins. Older? Yes. Depleted? Not yet. Dawkins is tearing up the field for Denver by being in on most plays and keeping the defense fired up. He is the leadership this defense has been missing. Next to him, Renaldo Hill (like CB Goodman) has come to Denver and is playing better football. Together, these two safeties have been amazing. Their back-ups would be worth writing about, but many are injured (Josh Barett and David Bruton). Rookie Darcel McBath has the potential if he is needed.
But PITT has Troy Polamalu at Safety, and he's a beast. Don't let the shampoo comercials and the soft voice fool you. Troy is one of those safeties that can do it all - hit, tackle, intercept, disrupt, and cover. He is arguably one of the top five (if not number one) safeties in the League, along with Dawkins and Reed. He's coming off of an injury, but expected to play.
The big news this week is Ryan Clark at free safety. Because of a rare blood disorder, Clark should not be playing in Denver's altitude. My heart goes out to the guy, as there is talk he may not even be allowed to make the trip.
STs - DEN
You didn't think I'd give STs their own section did you? Of course not.
Ok, there may be reason to worry about Prater. Read more from MHR member OrangeandBlue27 here. And we just switched out punters, didn't we? But PITT has the kick and punt coverage that Denver must have had last year. PITT has given up 3 TD on STs in the last 3 weeks. Royal has been know to get two TDs on returns in one game.
Defensive Overview
Denver's rankings - stats and (rank) Pittsburgh's rankings - stats and (rank)
Avg pt.s per game - 13.7 (2nd) 18.4 (7th)
Yards avg per game - 266.7 (1st) 291 (8th)
Pass avg per game - 180.6 (8th) 214.4 (16th)
Rush avg per game - 86.1 (3rd) 76.6 (1st)
I'm hearing a lot about the almighty Steelers defense this week. Let's give credit where credit is due. Pittsburgh has a great defense. But Denver beats Pittsburgh in every category but one, where Denver still manages a third best in the League ranking. Another stat to throw in - Denver allows 1/3 of opposing 3rd down conversions (33.3%), while PITT is allowing 43.3%.
In sum, both teams should stop the run this game. That much is clear. But how do the units match against there opposite numbers? What about the systems, the plays, and the head to head match ups?
~~~
Pre-Game Analysis
Strategic
Denver is 6-1. SIX AND ONE! They are at home on a Monday night, and except for one key injury, are all on the field. Pittsburgh is 5-2, including a close loss to CIN (a team Denver beat) and CHI. Both loses were close, so PITT is pretty darned close to being unbeaten themselves. I'll grant that. But 6 and 1 is nothing to sneeze at. Unless you are a sports writer (more on that in a moment). PITT may be missing some players, and others are coming off of injuries. Still, PITT had a bye week to rest and prepare.
I love the media. I really do (not). Some of my favorite things I've read this week include a ridiculous story about how accurate those Vegas guys are, knowing to pick against an undefeated Denver team and to go with Baltimore. Nice. Don't bother mentioning that Denver is 6-1, despite Vegas being wrong in six of those games (Denver was only favored one time). Another article (I won't mention John Clayton by name) buys into the mantra that Orton has a weak arm. Yet another claims that the Ravens and the Steelers have similar defenses. They're both physical, and both play a lot of 3-4, but the Ravens have been playing the 2 gap Fairbanks-Bullough system, while the Steelers have been playing the Lebeau Zone Blitz.
The minute Denver loses "one" game, the doubters came out (as predicted by many at MHR). All of a sudden, we are a team preparing to enter a death spiral. All of a sudden, we're not as good as we thought we were.
As of today, factoring in tie breaks, Denver is the number two team behind unbeaten Indianapolis in the AFC. In the NFL, Denver ranks as the fourth best team (Saints and Vikings are 2nd and 3rd).
Not enough for you? Denver has beaten the 5th, 6th, and 7th best teams in the NFL (CIN, DAL, and NE). One game is not the end of this team. In fact, a loss at this point in the season (while not prefered) gives the team better film to study. There isn't as much to find on film from a win, but a loss provides much room for analysis and growth for a good team. Rather the loss now than in the playoffs.
Let's not sell PITT short. As I mentioned earlier, their only two losses were close ones, and this team has star power.
But certainly don't sell Denver short. Denver has a 6-1 record against teams with an average winning percentage of .510 (opposing teams combined for 26-25 record). That beats PITT's opponents, who have a losing average. Those opponents are at .451 (a combined 23-28). More amazing is to factor in that Denver's opponents have a better record than PITT's, despite the fact that each of Denver's opponents had to play "Denver", who gave 6/7ths of those teams a loss (compared to PITT, who handed out losses to 5/7ths).
In other words, we have two very, very good teams on the field. A lot of folks are nervous because Denver has lost one game. But over the course of this season, Denver has played better ball and has a better record and stats to show for it.
Let's revisit the comparisons between rankings, but look at offensive vs defensive match-ups.
Denver Offense PITT Defense
Avg pt.s per game - 20 (20th) 18.4 (7th)
Yards avg per game - 344.6 (14th) 291 (8th)
Pass avg per game - 221.4 (16th) 214.4 (16th)
Rush avg per game - 123.1 (11th) 76.6 (1st)
On offense, we see that PITT beats us relatively in every category but one (the pass game), where we rank even. Now let's look at how PITT does on offense.
PITT Offense Denver Defense
Avg pt.s per game - 23.9 (14th) 13.7 (2nd)
Yards avg per game - 383 (6th) 266.7 (1st)
Pass avg per game - 276 (5th) 180.6 (8th)
Rush avg per game - 107 (19th) 86.1 (3rd)
Here, we beat PITT in every category but one. Again, it is the pass game that is different. Here PITT beats us. So relative to how each team has played so far (as measured in rankings), DEN wins in 6 stats, PITT wins in 7, and the teams tie in another.
The margin in the difference in rankings over all favor PITT by 29 "ranking points" when we have the ball, and favor Denver by 20 When PITT has the ball. On the other hand, Denver's defense is 32 points better than PITT's defense, while PITT's Offense is only 17 pts better than Denver's.
The key is the actual points on the score board at the end of the game, and this is where efficieny comes in. Remember the stat I mentioned about third down conversions? It comes into play when we look at teams moving the ball down the field. Even though PITT averages about two more minutes in time of possession, Denver runs the ball better, even though both teams are near each other in terms of rushing defense. While PITT is likely to stop Denver on the ground, they'll have a harder time stopping the Denver running game relative to Denver stopping PITT's 19th ranked run game. The pass offenses and defenses are very close for both teams, and is a wash.
Tactical
I see three approaches for the Steelers on offense this week.
- No huddle scheme
- Run heavy scheme
- Passing attack
Those are over-simplifications, but they'll make the points easier to understand.
First, the no huddle looks good on paper. Every one from Clayton to Big Ben are advocating it for this week. I see some problems with this approach. First, this game isn't in Baltimore, it is in the Mile High city. Assuming that Denver is conditioned to the altitude (metabolic levels, etc), does PITT really want to level the playing field between the defense and offense in terms of endurance? The way to beat a defense at altitude is to win time of possession by keeping the defense on the field. You do that with no-huddle, but the higher tempo leads to a change of possesion quicker (whether from a turnover, score, or inability to convert a down). Why not just keep the ball, and move down the field consistently? Besides, Denver has almost certainly devoted a lot of practice hours to adjusting for the no huddle in light of last week's game.
The second approach is to run the ball more. I this approach much more. PITT hasn't been winning games on the ground, they've done it in the air. Folks might argue that the low ranking in average run yards is because of a lack of commitment to the run, and this is true. But against the third best run defense in the League, why not give the ball to your star QB, or at least strike a balance?
The passing attack may be the way to go. The best players on the offense are arguably at QB and WR, and this has been working for PITT. The question is, can the OL protect Ben? Denver has a great sack scheme, and PITT'S OL isn't the best right now. Ben can take hits, and can throw on the run. He's a big, fast player in the mold of an Elway.
For Denver, they need to throw the ball. The run has been under utiized by PITT, but despite Denver's decent individual stats, Denver just isn't tearing teams apart with the run game. Together, the run and the pass have moved the ball down the field for Denver, but not created a lot of points in quick strikes. This will beat most teams, but won't win shoot outs. In fact, if Denver hope to beat INDY in Dec, they had better learn how to put up points on every long drive OR put up points quickly on most drives.
In a surprise twist, I wonder if McDaniels feels that Orton can handle a no huddle or two? This would be the game to bring it out. You can beat a physical defense at altitude with a good no huddle.
Denver needs to keep their TEs in to block this game. PITT's zone blitz is formidable, and two TEs are the standard counter to a 3-4. Graham (TE) in particular will be needed to assist the right side of the line in pass blocking with the Harris missing at RT. I don't expect many passes to TEs in this game. If Orton uses a safety valve, it will likely be a running back.
Expect bump and run from the Steeler CBs, but coverage to be over the top. Expect the safeties of PITT to play the pass more than the run in deep zone. LBs and DLs will take turns in zones and rushing the passer in the typical zone blitz manner. I expect the PITT defense to do a good job shutting down the run.
Expect the Denver defense to play off or on coverage, but not tight. The Denver CBs will play underneath in most match-ups. While one Denver ILB zones the middle, mans the RB, or blitzes, the other ILB will take one of the other two assignments. The OLBs (DEs) will rush or zone.
PITT will vary their offense, presenting 2 TE sets, I forms, and 3 receiver sets. I don't expect Denver to use a FB, so expect 2 TE or 3 WR sets.
Keys to the Game
Denver
- Denver lost last week when they let the Ravens get after Orton. Denver's OL must hold.
- Denver lost last week when they let the game turn into a shoot out. They probably can't run against the Ravens very well, but too many passes may lead to a shoot out. Denver needs to complete a lot of intermediate and short passes, get into a rhythm, and move the ball consistently and slowly (this will also tire the PITT defense).
- Ben is a terrific QB. But he makes mistakes. If the pass rush can reach Ben (and it should against the Steeler's OL), an elite secondary has the chance to make key INTs. Rush Ben, and don't drop those INTs.
PITT
- Win time of possesion. If you want to win in the altitude (something PITT hasn't done much of), you need to keep your defense off of the field. Try the no-huddle if you want to, but keep the oxygen handy for your guys on both sides of the ball.
- Challenge with the run game. If Mendenhall can match his terrific YPC average, run down the Broncos. At worst, it doesn't work and you still have a great passing game. But try the run out.
- Don't kick to Royal. You're better off kicking out of bounds on punts.
This game could go either way. For every stat that favors one team, another stat counters it. PITT is a more physical team, and a more balanced team. Denver has the better defense. Perhaps the Baltimore game has helped to prepare Denver for the Steelers.
This will be a great Monday Night Football encounter. I like Denver at home, with the better record against a tougher schedule in the first 8 weeks (7 games). For that reason, I don't understand PITT getting 3 points in Vegas. Still, PITT is no joke, and I'm not fully confident with picking Denver. The reason? While we have a SB caliber defense, our offense is "just" doing well. It needs to play much better than that if we are going to beat the many types of teams we'll be playing this year. We rank in the bottom half of the League in passing yards per game and points. The points stat really stands out.
Good teams lose ball games, but they lose close (as PITT has). Yes, we had one loss, but it wasn't close. An inability to dominate is the problem. Good teams "find a way to win". That's what we've been doing. Great teams dominate, and we have yet to do that.
This week, I'm confident that the Steelers come in with a good game plan and players ready to execute. I know the Denver players will be fired up (or Dawkins will be kicking butts in the locker room). What I'm looking forward to seeing is how McDaniels adjusts to a loss. I've already bought in to the McDaniels way, and I'm hoping that he's on top of this aspect of coaching too.
Denver wins (fingers crossed and nervous as Hell).
10 recs |
164 comments
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Comments
typo
in the keys to the game section, I says Baltimore got after Cutler
by bleedorange-blue on Nov 6, 2009 12:06 PM MST reply actions 0 recs
it says, “the Ravens get after Cutler”, great breakdown though, I can’t wait for the game, it will be a great way to measure ourselves as a team. I like that Orton gets to play at home, and we’ll need some turnovers to help us beat a very good team.
by bleedorange-blue on Nov 6, 2009 12:14 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe HT
Secretly wants Cutler to get roughed up just enough (And the Bears to do just bad enough) to get the Broncos a pick in the 10-15 draft range. Not too high for cost and not too low for value.
Victor Frankl:
What man actually needs is not a tensionless state but rather the striving and struggling for some goal worthy of him. What he needs is not the discharge of tension at any cost, but the call of a potential meaning waiting to be fulfilled by him.
Everything can be taken from a man but one thing: the last of the human freedoms – to choose one’s attitude in any given set of circumstances, to choose one’s own way.
by wyoeng on Nov 6, 2009 12:26 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Secretly?
No. Nothing secret here. I hope someone kicks his butt! lol
But seriously, for some reason I catch myself typing “Cutler” when I mean “Orton” all the time. It really annoys me that I do it. Thanks for the catch bleedorange-blue!
Formerly known as HoosierTeacher or just HT.
"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe
by Steve Nichols on Nov 6, 2009 12:31 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Fixed, and much thanks!
Formerly known as HoosierTeacher or just HT.
"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe
by Steve Nichols on Nov 6, 2009 12:31 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
I'd have to disagree,
Our O-line is not powerful enough, our recievers get no seperation and our coach seems to have no faith in the vertical element of a passing game we go horizontal which will not work against the Steelers and has been waring thinner in it’s effectiveness each week. Your analysis is in depth but on the points listed, the Broncos are gonna lose this one I’m afraid. Where is Brandon Lloyd??
by quarterhorse on Nov 6, 2009 12:39 PM MST reply actions 0 recs
Some thoughts.
1) Our OL is not powerful. Well, I agree IF you’re talking about short yardage run blocking. But I mentioned that in the article.
Still, would you prefer the PITT OL and the sacks they give up each week? Last week was bad for us, but PITT deals with allowing 3 or 4 sacks every game! No, I’ll take Denver’s OL any day.
2) Our receivers get no seperation. Really? I understand that in the curls and hitches (which aren’t YAC routes), but are you seriously telling me that Marshall and Royal have reputations for not making yards after catches? That’s a new one to me.
3) No faith in the vertical element. Well, no. We leave the vertical element to the Raiders, one of the few teams to still play the vertical passing game. Perhaps you mean we should challenge the midfield more often, which I agree with and wrote in the story.
4) Where’s Llyod? Why do you ask? Don’t we have enough enough receivers with the names I mentioned?
5) My analysis is in depth, but wrong….we’ll lose. Well, we may very well lose. Still, I’ve only picked wrong once this year with Denver, and there are plenty of folks that have picked Denver to lose that have looked silly week after week (see Vegas and the msm). Still, I may very well be wrong in my opinions, as well as my guess on the game. I hope you’ll be with me in hoping that I’m right though.
Formerly known as HoosierTeacher or just HT.
"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe
by Steve Nichols on Nov 6, 2009 1:10 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Steve
McDaniels mentioned last week that they were bringing pressure up the middle and playing the safety’s very deep. Why weren’t we able to take advantage of the seems with the TEs? That play doesn’t take long to develop, and I thought we’d be able to influence the play calling by hitting a few of those for 1st downs. Do you think it was execution, or play calling? I’m worried with the TE weapons we have that we were focused on running screens, rather than traditional go routes or curls with the guys on the edge.
by legendarywalton on Nov 6, 2009 1:19 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Against a 3-4 that is tearing up your backfield...
…there’s no shame in keeping your TEs in to block.
As bad as our gut was getting hit, I would have liked to have seen a FB used for interior blocking. Either way, the counter for interior blitzes that are working (if you can’t fix the OL) is to keep in more guys to block, especialy a FB. A RB can stay in, or shoot to the edge to be a safety valve.
Formerly known as HoosierTeacher or just HT.
"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe
by Steve Nichols on Nov 6, 2009 4:05 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Lloyd
bounces between 5th receiver and practice squad I think…
Because Montana has no professional sports, I gotta support the land of my birth.
Socrates was once executed for 'trolling'.
^Needs explaining: don't call someone asking uncomfortable, slightly antagonistic questions trolls. In all odds they probably just want to learn. It's real easy to differentiate a 'Socratic' post from a trolling one (unless you're a resident of WCG).
^Needs further explaining: I have yet to post anything on WCG, don't worry, I'm not trying to rationalize anything I've done. I've just lurked over there and man, they are the model of post-peloponnesian war Athens.
by Drizzt396 on Nov 6, 2009 3:46 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Great Chalk Talk, HT
Your ability to break down the offensive and defensive matchups is remarkable. I believe that the difference Monday night will be the “12th man”. A competitive team, at home, on MNF is huge! Should be a great game to watch regardless.
Go Broncos!
" Life is what happens while you're making other plans "
by hairybear on Nov 6, 2009 12:46 PM MST reply actions 0 recs
We need the 12th man.
This is going to be a heck of a match-up, and we’ll need all the help we can get. The crowd needs to cause some penalties if they can.
I failed to mention that the forecast calls for rain. This hurts PITT more than DEN, if you believe (as I do) that Ben is more key for PITT than Orton is for Denver.
Formerly known as HoosierTeacher or just HT.
"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe
by Steve Nichols on Nov 6, 2009 1:12 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
No Worries
I’ll be there and I’m the loudest person you ever met, My friends and I will make sure our section is going strong all game!!!
by gOOn on Nov 6, 2009 4:44 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
I am surprised so many like the bland front page....we must have infiltrators from the corporate offices! lol
I want my orange and blue back….
Verbose in style, dispersion of thought, procrastination in life.
The guy formerly known as ZAPPA
by Tim Lynch on Nov 6, 2009 1:02 PM MST reply actions 0 recs
Truth be told, I'm already getting used to the new format....
Verbose in style, dispersion of thought, procrastination in life.
The guy formerly known as ZAPPA
by Tim Lynch on Nov 6, 2009 1:08 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not. lol
I want my team colors back, but more importantly, I want the decision left to John, not SBN.
Formerly known as HoosierTeacher or just HT.
"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe
by Steve Nichols on Nov 6, 2009 1:13 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
I guess I'm just a, baaaah
Verbose in style, dispersion of thought, procrastination in life.
The guy formerly known as ZAPPA
by Tim Lynch on Nov 6, 2009 1:56 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
better stay out of Montaaana
It all starts in the trenches - HT 11/11/08
Leave the hateful vitriol to the uninformed - HT 3/16/09
by firstfan on Nov 6, 2009 3:01 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
sa^a^arcasm. :)
Verbose in style, dispersion of thought, procrastination in life.
The guy formerly known as ZAPPA
by Tim Lynch on Nov 6, 2009 3:53 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Concerns
More than anything else I lament the demise of the zone blocking element in the Denver running game. McDaniels is missing the boat in this area, going the wrong direction.
The lack of a vertical game is still of concern but I’m not at all convinced this is due to an inability on Orton’s part. Is this too more of a coaching decision?
The tight ends are not nearly as involved in the passing game as had been hoped.
Special teams/field position are the major contributors to team weaknesses.
Marshall continues to display attitudinal problems in my mind: Kicking the football after not seeing the penalty flag (which was thrown in the previous game) for interference, looping backwards after the catch against the Ravens aggressive defense, and shorting arming a pass because Lewis was coming, and most of all dogging it when the Broncos were losing last week.
All these issues are correctable, hopefully most will be against Pittsburgh!
by BroncoCUbuffs on Nov 6, 2009 1:09 PM MST reply actions 0 recs
#1 concern about the transition in head coaching.
It has to be the zone scheme transition. Our OL is tremendous… if they play the zone scheme or pass protect. We’re undersized so we can utilize our speed in getting to the edges. It’ll be a painful transition, and I think you’ll see a lot of turnover on the line in the next few years. With McDaniels proclivity to run power Isos (he ran a lot of power sweeps in NE, which is strange because our team is built for that), I’m worried about Ryan Clady’s future for this team. He seems like a prize candidate in the “patriot way” of maximizing potential and getting value back. Don’t read this the wrong way. I think Clady is in the top 3 of tackles in terms of pass protection. In terms of blowing off the ball and sealing an edge in order to conform with McDaniel’s preferred style? I don’t know… I just have a feeling about this one.
by legendarywalton on Nov 6, 2009 1:15 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
I disagree concerning Clady
I don;t see anyway that McD trades Clady away, unless it’s in a decade or more when Clady is on the tail end of his career. Clady will be a Bronco for many years to come.
We confide in our strength without boasting of it; we respect that of others, without fearing it. -Thomas Jefferson 1793
by c_style on Nov 6, 2009 3:51 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
I certainly don't want him to.
I totally understand your point of view. I’m just trying to identify the “shocker” candidates that the Patriots seem to always have. You know it’s going to happen here too. Whatever Belichick taught McDaniels, there’s got to be a secret about evaluating star talent that can be maximized through front office moves.
by legendarywalton on Nov 6, 2009 4:00 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
I see your line of thinking
Don’t they typically unload older stars at the backend of their careers though? With the exception of Cassell but they could afford to do that b/c of TB coming back.
I think your “shocker” canidates would more likely be Champ or perhaps Dawkins rather than a great player at the beginning of their career, especially not the best young Tackle in the NFL.
We confide in our strength without boasting of it; we respect that of others, without fearing it. -Thomas Jefferson 1793
by c_style on Nov 6, 2009 4:46 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Much good in your comments!
1. Agreed that we need to re-evaluate the move away from ZB. We need ZB with the current OLmen, even if we are going to drift away from ZB in the future.
2. Vertical. I think Orton is capable, but McDaniels wants Orton to be completely comfortable before taking the next step. McDaniels has allowed other QBs to challenge the field deep, so I think it will come in time.
3. The TEs weren’t used as receivers much in NE either, and this is just a different way of approaching the game. Frankly, against the 3-4 zone blitz with PITT, I expect for us to keep the TEs in to block (especialy with the loss of Ryan Harris).
4. Agree that STs have been a problem. On the other hand, look at PITT’s coverage teams. We’ll have to give the new punter time (McDaniels is addressing the issue with the punter move), and Royal may be getting better.
5. Marshall is what he is. Some of the things he’s done (kicking the ball) are inexusable. (Though he had every right to be upset. They didn’t flag the opposing player until Marshall got angry. Still, it was inexcusable). Marshall’s attitude, for all of its faults, has still been better by leaps and bound than last year. At least “this” hold out stuck with the team. I can’t say the same for our previous QB. Here’s hoping Marshall improves.
I agree that all are correctable. Good thoughts all!
Formerly known as HoosierTeacher or just HT.
"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe
by Steve Nichols on Nov 6, 2009 1:26 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Transitioning to Steve Nichols from HT might take a little time for me as well:O)
by BroncoCUbuffs on Nov 6, 2009 1:30 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
It confuses me too!
Formerly known as HoosierTeacher or just HT.
"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe
by Steve Nichols on Nov 6, 2009 4:07 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Can I underline point #1 and give a big huzzah?
When I look at the decline of the team in short-yardage and goal-to-go situations the past few years, I get the move away from zone-blocking. It’s hard to admit, but I get it. But I’ll feel better when Seth Olsen and some draft pick next year are starting in the middle of the line. Right now, it does feel like the one place where the new regime has failed to fit the personnel to the system.
by Chibronx on Nov 6, 2009 2:19 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
No mention of James Harrison?
I think that’s pretty glaring. Otherwise, good write up! I’d still have to give all three phases of the game to Pit. I think we’ll play hard, execute better than last week, and make a game of it. Pittsburgh may not play the same scheme on D as Baltimore, but they will take a page out of the Ravens’ play book and blitz the interior line like crazy. Unless we go to a shotgun look with RBs to help pick up the blitz, I see heavy pressure on Orton. Throw in the fact that Polumbus will likely make his first start, and I have a feeling that we’ll see the cracks on the OL continue to surface.
There’s many ways to beat Pittsburgh, and the best way is to make Ben uncomfortable in the pocket. He can be interception prone (although he’s been in a lot better control this year) and that will help our field position. Our offense really doesn’t scare anyone at this point. I hardly think you can call Eddie Royal a #1 at this point… his separation is just non-existent. New scheme or not, that should not have fallen off so dramatically. If we go down by two scores, this one could get ugly.
I’m calling a Pitt win, 16-13.
by legendarywalton on Nov 6, 2009 1:11 PM MST reply actions 0 recs
Should have added more praise for the work you do.
It’s really a privilege to read this stuff. Thanks!
by legendarywalton on Nov 6, 2009 1:19 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
It is a privilege to write for everyone.
I appreciate the praise, but appreciate your thoughts most of all. Keep ’em coming!
Formerly known as HoosierTeacher or just HT.
"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe
by Steve Nichols on Nov 6, 2009 1:38 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
I didn't mention Farrior either.
I still think the PITT LBs are (along with Denver’s unit) one of the best in the League.
I do think Eddie Royal would start for most teams. His issue is that he is best used when hit in stride (let’s say a “go” or “slant” route. We just don’t throw those to him much.
I agree that a PITT win by 3 sounds very possible, and I also respect the PITT defense. But one are I might disagree in is “all phases of the game”. I’ll grant that the PITT offense looks better than the DEN offense. STs is at least open for debate. PITT has terrible coverage, and I think Royal as a returner is dangerous.
But on defense, we beat PITT in most meaningful stats. 2nd in points allowed, 1st in preventing yards, 8th in stopping the pass, and 3rd in stopping the run. PITT is 1st in stopping the run, but behind us everywhere else. Can you at least give us credit in that phase?
Good stuff Walton!
Formerly known as HoosierTeacher or just HT.
"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe
by Steve Nichols on Nov 6, 2009 1:35 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Defense is definitely debatable.
Up until last week we were winning the “money” categories. Getting of the field on third down, creating turnovers, and holding the other team to field goals. Pittsburgh’s statistics have been skewed by a lack of Polamalu. He means as much, if not more, to the Pitt than Dawkins means to us. I honestly think you have to throw the stats out for this one. Still, these are two amazing defenses, and the fact that I can even mention the Broncos in the same breath as them is really overwhelming. To see where we’ve come from, I just have to shake my head. I’d hate to suit up against either of these defenses.
by legendarywalton on Nov 6, 2009 1:39 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
great breakdown HT!
as always :D. I have two questions.
you mentioned in the WR section about hines ward and santonio holmes. while they are excellent receivers, the person that worries the most is the rookie mike wallace. He gets downfield and makes the long momentum changing TDs, so how do you think he will factor in the game? and also, why do you think mcdaniels has gone away from using the wild horse? it seemed to work very well, allowing orton to read the defense better, is there any reason why it wouldn’t work against other defenses? or was mcdaniels just trying to screw with his old team…?
thanks!
PS. oh one other thing, how much of those 20 sacks pittsburgh has given up is the OLs fault and how much is it Big Ben’s fault for trying to make plays? in the few games i’ve wwatched, it seemed like the a lot of the sacks came a good 5, 6 secs after the snap, which is a long time to expect an OL to hold back rushers.
by march20 on Nov 6, 2009 1:15 PM MST reply actions 0 recs
Great questions March!
1 – Wallace is good; very good. When he’s on the field, he’ll face rookie Alphonso Smith (If Jack Williams is unable to play). Denver’s safety tendem of Dawkins and Hill should prevent most deep threats, and the Denver front seven shouldn’t give Ben the time to complete those passes too many times. Even in the loss to BAL, Denver’s D was in the offensive backfield much of the game.
2 – The Wild Horse is a very gimmicky thing. It isn’t designed to move the ball as much as it is to read the defense. We knew what we were getting against BAL, and we know what to expect against PITT. But NE has a very flexible system, and it may have been worth 2 or 3 wild horses to get a look. I don’t expect to see it again for awhile.
3 – The fault (in my opinion) is spread amongst a few groups. First and foremost, I blame the receivers. If they can’t get open, Ben has few options. The OL and Ben both share some blame. Ben is big enough to shake off a lot of sack attempts, and mobile enough to move out of the pocket. He is strong enough to throw on the move too. That he isn’t even able to use that mobility reflects (too some degree) on the OL. In the end, the sheer number of sacks (and the 19th best running game) don’t create a lot of confidence in that OL.
Formerly known as HoosierTeacher or just HT.
"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe
by Steve Nichols on Nov 6, 2009 1:53 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
In awe
Never in my almost 40 years of watching football have I seen any thing like this site and the people like yourself who write for it. I know so much more about the game than I ever thought possible. I’ve looked at some of the other team’s sites and they have nothing close to this kind of commentary and of course the MSM is what we think it is ( the reader’s comments are also amazing). Double ‘Way to Go’ . I hope you enjoy writing this stuff up as much as we like reading it. rec’d.
Was ain't Is.
by oncobronco on Nov 6, 2009 1:17 PM MST reply actions 0 recs
You bet I do!
I work a full time job, provide training at that job as well, and am on call. I work my family and MHR in when I can. I don’t get paid for what I do at MHR.
So why do I do it? Because folks like you read it (whether they agree or disagree with my points) and they talk about it. I appreciate the “thank you” comments, but I also appreciate that folks ask questions, agree, disagree, and think. To be a part of that is payment enough. I won’t turn down a paycheck of it ever comes to that, but the prime motivator has always been…
1) My appreciation to John B. for giving me the opportunity,
2) My love for the members and staff at MHR,
3) My love of football and the Broncos in particular.
Yes, I enjoy it very much. Thank you for being a part of MHR!
Formerly known as HoosierTeacher or just HT.
"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe
by Steve Nichols on Nov 6, 2009 1:59 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Good write up.....
although I would give the edge to the Pittsburgh LBing crew! Harrison / Farrior / Timmons / Woodley?? May be the best crew in the league bar none!
The very existence of flamethrowers proves that some time, somewhere, someone said to themselves, "You know, I want to set those people over there on fire, but I'm just not close enough to get the job done."
-George Carlin
by Cdsumm on Nov 6, 2009 1:19 PM MST reply actions 0 recs
bar haggan, davis, williams, dumervil thank you very much :P
by march20 on Nov 6, 2009 1:20 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
we shall see.
The very existence of flamethrowers proves that some time, somewhere, someone said to themselves, "You know, I want to set those people over there on fire, but I'm just not close enough to get the job done."
-George Carlin
by Cdsumm on Nov 6, 2009 1:21 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
lol
Really? Super mario and Doom alone should have rothy trembling in his hiking boots
"I have not failed. I've just found 10,000 ways that won't work."
- Thomas Alva Edison
"Success is not a place at which one arrives, but rather... the spirit with which one undertakes and continues the journey."
- Alex Noble
by DenBronx on Nov 6, 2009 1:21 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
BB doesn't tremble.....
he loves the pocket to collapse! LOL. Then he scrambles around, ducks 4 tackles, and holds on to the ball for 8.4 seconds before throwing a 50 yard cross field bomb! 1st down! Haven’t you been paying attention?
The very existence of flamethrowers proves that some time, somewhere, someone said to themselves, "You know, I want to set those people over there on fire, but I'm just not close enough to get the job done."
-George Carlin
by Cdsumm on Nov 6, 2009 1:24 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
yes and about 50% of the time, he fails to duck that 4th tackle and gets sacked (by doooooooommmmmm)
by march20 on Nov 6, 2009 1:26 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Doom Schmoom!
Doom, meet Mr. Starks.
The very existence of flamethrowers proves that some time, somewhere, someone said to themselves, "You know, I want to set those people over there on fire, but I'm just not close enough to get the job done."
-George Carlin
by Cdsumm on Nov 6, 2009 1:28 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
haha that will be a wonderful matchup to watch :)
by march20 on Nov 6, 2009 1:29 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Is it Monday yet?
The very existence of flamethrowers proves that some time, somewhere, someone said to themselves, "You know, I want to set those people over there on fire, but I'm just not close enough to get the job done."
-George Carlin
by Cdsumm on Nov 6, 2009 1:30 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
+1
I been askin that all day
"I have not failed. I've just found 10,000 ways that won't work."
- Thomas Alva Edison
"Success is not a place at which one arrives, but rather... the spirit with which one undertakes and continues the journey."
- Alex Noble
by DenBronx on Nov 6, 2009 1:31 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
While that may be the case, I’d be fine if Doom had obligations elsewhere.
You sure Ike isn’t reacquainting himself with his fingers, he certainly doesn’t use them for catching. - Brian (DaBolts) on "Face Me Ike"
by steelguy99 on Nov 6, 2009 1:31 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
He shut out Allen...
That’s very impressive. But Dumervil is a completely different cat. he’s got octopus tentacles for arms.
by legendarywalton on Nov 6, 2009 1:31 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Odd....
Mr. Stark’s favorite dish is raw octopus!
The very existence of flamethrowers proves that some time, somewhere, someone said to themselves, "You know, I want to set those people over there on fire, but I'm just not close enough to get the job done."
-George Carlin
by Cdsumm on Nov 6, 2009 1:32 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Starks could have a hard time bending himself in half to stop that half-pint, but at least he gets to practice against another shorty.
You sure Ike isn’t reacquainting himself with his fingers, he certainly doesn’t use them for catching. - Brian (DaBolts) on "Face Me Ike"
by steelguy99 on Nov 6, 2009 1:32 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
They’ve been very legit this year.
You sure Ike isn’t reacquainting himself with his fingers, he certainly doesn’t use them for catching. - Brian (DaBolts) on "Face Me Ike"
by steelguy99 on Nov 6, 2009 1:28 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Both teams feature an elite front seven.
I’d go to battle with either group in my foxhole any day.
Formerly known as HoosierTeacher or just HT.
"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe
by Steve Nichols on Nov 6, 2009 2:08 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
I think that Denver is suffering from what my bills fan friend calls Buffaloitis. That is, as soon as Denver beats a team, that team is immediately considered substantially worse than they were. This was exacerbated by a horrible loss to the ravens.
Likewise, any time Denver’s defense does well the offense they played against is assumed to be “not as good as previously thought”, instead of it being assumed that Denver actually has a great defense.
A big problem is the national media. This is one reason why I enjoy reading insight such as this post, because it’s clear that you know a lot about your team and while you aren’t a steelers expert, you have obviously watched them. You incorrectly believe our pass-protection is awful (and it has been exceptional), but you believe our CBs are decent whereas most would throw them under the bus. All of us are going to have flaws in our analysis, but if more were writing in the style you are, we would have less assumptions like “Denver is bad. Their defense is bad. They won by luck. Overrated.”
This is the story that is easy to read, and easiest to find. Digging into it, there is no merit to that argument, but the easiest story to tell is one that has no basis in reality because it doesn’t require anything to back it up.
Right now, most of football fandom is unable to take the broncos seriously because they have not had a history of success recently, and because fans are used to them starting out quick and then fading. I’m actually surprised that the broncos are being so underrated as usually bandwagons become quick stories (like the browns of 2007),
In any event, I think the true story is that the denver defense is very good and are just suffering an acute case of Buffaloitis. I wish that we could see more straight analysis of what this defense has done elsewhere instead of in online forums, but I guess this will have to suffice for now. Their a fun defense to watch, and I’m curious how they are going to play it this weekend.
There is something to be said for bringing the house versus Pittsburgh, and certainly the coaching/personnel could do something somewhat Philly2008 against the steelers. However, the undersized quick front is one that traditionally gives the steelers fits so I could also see the un-intuitive plan of dropping 7 and seeing if the front 4 get there.
You sure Ike isn’t reacquainting himself with his fingers, he certainly doesn’t use them for catching. - Brian (DaBolts) on "Face Me Ike"
by steelguy99 on Nov 6, 2009 2:25 PM MST up reply actions 1 recs
A big problem is the national media.
Ha ha, I sound like a political blogger.
You sure Ike isn’t reacquainting himself with his fingers, he certainly doesn’t use them for catching. - Brian (DaBolts) on "Face Me Ike"
by steelguy99 on Nov 6, 2009 2:26 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Nice
I appreciate intelligent measured posts from fans of other teams.
by Endzone on Nov 6, 2009 3:15 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
It was a good one.
Formerly known as HoosierTeacher or just HT.
"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe
by Steve Nichols on Nov 6, 2009 4:22 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Great points all.
My issue with the PITT OL is in two points (and I’m more open to being wrong that our friends in the national media). First, they were the weak spot last year. Let’s grant that for a moment. Now I look at this year (as a Broncos fan, so I haven’t seen as much as you).
I see 20 sacks in 7 games. That seems high. The question becomes, do we blame Ben or the OL? If Ben is holding the ball too long, I blame the WRs for not getting open. I do this because I consider Ben to be one of the top QBs in the League, and mobile. If he’s holding the ball, I’ll blame the WRs.
But I see a lot of PITT fans debating the Ben or OL question too. Some blame Ben for holding the ball, and some blame the line because he needs more time. I lean towards blaming the line. If Ben isn’t getting the time he needs from the WRs, the OL needs to ratchet things up. (We then also need to re-evaluate which team has the better WRs). : )
I very much agree with the Buffuloitis concept. For the same reason that I don’t think the Denver LBs are getting nearly the credit they should, I also think the Steeler CBs get a bad rap.
We can disagree on pass protection issues (perhaps I’ve been spoiled with the “famous” Denver offensive lines for so many years). 20 sacks just sounds impossibly high to me.
Great comments Steel!
Formerly known as HoosierTeacher or just HT.
"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe
by Steve Nichols on Nov 6, 2009 4:22 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
But I see a lot of PITT fans debating the Ben or OL question too.
I think if you look at sbnation or the less fanatical fringe of steeler nation you won’t see that debate anymore. Last year? Sure. This year Ben (for the most part) clearly has plenty of time.
Ben is a good QB, and he is also stubborn. He frequently ignores hot routes and often ignores check-downs or Heath in the flat looking deep. Our WRs becoming open is a cause for concern. Last years goat was OC Arians, and personally I think that he is responsible for putting the WRs in a position to succeed. The steelers have some tricky routes, but they take time (as well as the dreaded bunch formation) to develop.
However, I think you could legitimately make the claim that our WRs are not the greatest at getting open. Mike Wallace is, but it takes even him time to get all the way down the field. Ward will get open eventually, but he has been getting flagged a lot this year for some “skills” he used to use to cheat a bit on the CBs.
Mostly though, it really is Ben. Receivers are often open, but he is waiting for the deeper route. Ben will almost always go as deep on the field as he thinks he can get away with, and he doesn’t always judge the amount of pocket protection correctly. Sometimes he does judge the amount of protection correctly and just decides to try to make three tacklers miss.
When he pulls it off, he’s a genius. When he doesn’t, it’s very frustrating. That’s our QB though. Some people bitch and moan about him (though less and less), but that’s just who he is as a QB. I don’t know that it will ever change, and I’m okay with that. It’s a treat to watch him play, but every single game there is a “doh” moment where he has 5 seconds to throw and squanders it into a sack.
You sure Ike isn’t reacquainting himself with his fingers, he certainly doesn’t use them for catching. - Brian (DaBolts) on "Face Me Ike"
by steelguy99 on Nov 7, 2009 7:33 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Fair enough.
So the issue sound like more of a Ben and the receivers question.
So let me ask you this -
I have a hard time giving the PITT OL a higher rating than Denver’s. Likewise, as much as I like Orton, I’m not going to put him in the same plane as Ben. Do you think I was right to rank the Denver WRs higher (if they are part of the problem with Ben getting sacked)?
I think your comment here was very educational for me, and I appreciate it!
Formerly known as HoosierTeacher or just HT.
"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe
by Steve Nichols on Nov 7, 2009 1:35 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
I don’t know that much about the denver receivers, I tend to be very steeler-centric, and thus I wouldn’t want to make a comparison.
Our WRs can at times be dominant. Ward has put up some great stats this year. Holmes has put up some great stats this year. Wallace has put up some great stats this year. Beyond the stats, you would also notice watching the game that each receiver has had some fantastic games. Unfortunately, I can only think of one game where they all had good games. At times they struggle to get open and therefore struggle to get the ball. Just recently there was a game where Ward caught 1 ball for 3 yards. There have been similar games where Holmes had the same stat line, and obviously our 3rd rookie WR has had games the same way.
The issue has been consistency, and right now we lack consistency at the WR position. I always have a hard time finding this stat, but if you can dig up dropped balls you will also find Holmes is very far up that list.
We have two superbowl MVPs for WRs, so it is hard to rip on them too much. Each of them can take over a game, but they don’t always do so, and they rarely do so in the same game. I like them in the steelers uniform, but I don’t consider them elite level.
You sure Ike isn’t reacquainting himself with his fingers, he certainly doesn’t use them for catching. - Brian (DaBolts) on "Face Me Ike"
by steelguy99 on Nov 8, 2009 7:28 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs
consistency from each WR yes but..
… i think yoru WR corp as a whole has been consistent. someone always DOES step up for big ben. the lack of numbers for some of the players may simply be the defenses overemphasis on stopping him? or whatnot. clearly i have not watched enough steelers football (as johnny has pointed out many times :P) but the numbers are always there for big ben.
by march20 on Nov 8, 2009 8:23 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs
+1
They’ve proven it in the past, and it’ll show up in a big AFC matchup on Monday.
by legendarywalton on Nov 6, 2009 1:21 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Love the sig!
It is a close call for me. Just going by the names, I have a hard time arguing with you. They are all more well known than the Denver crew. But based on play so far, I love Dumervil’s 10 sacks, and the overall defensive stats of the Broncos so far.
PITT is the number one run stopping team in the League, and that’s an incredible accomplishment. Denver is 3rd, which is nearly as impressive. Looking at the rest of the major stats I provided, I would lean towards Denver’s LB corps as a group. It surprises me (since I would have prefered the Steeler LBs at the start of the season), but Denver’s LBs are building a rep quickly and quietly. I doubt most NFL fans could even name Haggan as the LOLB at this point, and most remember Davis for his (uneventful) days in Cleveland. Dumervil is a convert to OLB. And still, these guys are in the top 3 in most categories.
I give a very slight edge to Denver (just as I barely give an edge to PITT’s DL). That these are close calls either way doesn’t detract from either squad. Most teams would die to have Denver or PITT’s front seven.
Formerly known as HoosierTeacher or just HT.
"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe
by Steve Nichols on Nov 6, 2009 2:06 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
I disagree with a lot of points, especially (and this shouldn’t be a surprise) on talent evaluation of some of PGH’s players. We could likely go on all day about how you basically rated the entire denver defense above pittsburgh’s and how amusing that is, but that doesn’t sound like much fun.
And besides, you put a lot of work into it, and show a lot of insight that most don’t. Very, very nicely written piece. Even if I don’t agree with much of the analysis, this is still a great read.
Mighty fine job.
You sure Ike isn’t reacquainting himself with his fingers, he certainly doesn’t use them for catching. - Brian (DaBolts) on "Face Me Ike"
by steelguy99 on Nov 6, 2009 1:20 PM MST reply actions 0 recs
That's what makes this site great.
The writers all put a point across and we’re able to have a good discussion about X’s and O’s. Hopefully you’ve enjoyed your time on the site this week.
by legendarywalton on Nov 6, 2009 1:21 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
It hasn’t been too bad.
You sure Ike isn’t reacquainting himself with his fingers, he certainly doesn’t use them for catching. - Brian (DaBolts) on "Face Me Ike"
by steelguy99 on Nov 6, 2009 1:26 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
We also don't consider ourselves above criticism.
The point of the FP stories on MHR is to foster conversation. We value good comments from folks who know their football (like you) and good questions from folks learning the game. Good minds will disagree, we just want it to be respectful.
Most of my comparisons against PITT are too close too call, and (you’ll have to remember) I’m writing from a biased view. : )
Formerly known as HoosierTeacher or just HT.
"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe
by Steve Nichols on Nov 6, 2009 2:24 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
I’m writing from a biased view. : )
That’s why I won’t nitpick your choices. I can see why you could come to the conclusions you did.
You sure Ike isn’t reacquainting himself with his fingers, he certainly doesn’t use them for catching. - Brian (DaBolts) on "Face Me Ike"
by steelguy99 on Nov 6, 2009 2:29 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Not for nothing, Steel Guy, but the Broncos’ defense has given up fewer points per game than the Steelers’ and against better opposition. Is it really so outrageous to say their defense is better?
by Chibronx on Nov 6, 2009 1:33 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Do you really expect a steeler fan to ever admit a defense is better than theirs?
:)
You sure Ike isn’t reacquainting himself with his fingers, he certainly doesn’t use them for catching. - Brian (DaBolts) on "Face Me Ike"
by steelguy99 on Nov 6, 2009 1:33 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Steelguy, year in and year out, your defense is the standard with which all others are judged
Doesn’t that make you happy enough!! :-)
"Wait, let me explain something to you...I'm the Dude. So, that's what you call me. You know, that, or 'His Dudeness,' or 'Duder,' or 'El Duderino,' if you're not into the whole brevity thing."
by TJ Johnson on Nov 6, 2009 1:34 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Frankly, I love the Broncos.
But I have always loved watching the PITT defenses. They have two elements that most teams lack.
1) They are good, year in and year out.
2) They play an exciting defense that is fun to watch.
As a former coordinator, I just want a defense that wins, boring or not. But the PITT defense wins, and wins with flash. I love that.
Formerly known as HoosierTeacher or just HT.
"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe
by Steve Nichols on Nov 6, 2009 2:27 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Sure, but did you not have your best defensive player for 5 games?
" I’m glad we play Pitt twice, and not Tenn this year." - Salty Browns Fan.
by Johnny_S on Nov 6, 2009 2:00 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
The scoreboard and the final tally only cares who was on the field.
I’ll hate to miss a player like Bailey, or Dawkins, or Dumervil. But I won’t be able to adjust the stats for missing them.
Last year, Denver was down to sixth and seven string (that’s right) running backs. We had to play with who we had. I’m grateful that Troy is back (as a pure football fan), but the record and the stats are what they are.
Formerly known as HoosierTeacher or just HT.
"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe
by Steve Nichols on Nov 6, 2009 2:30 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Thanks!
Here are some thoughts.
First, the DL and the LBs are (in my opinion) so close to each other that they are hard to rank as “better”. All four squads (DEN and PIT DL and LB corps) are elite. I split the edge.
I can’t see giving an edge to the CBs for PITT right now. They are in the bottom half of the League in stopping the pass (16th), while Denver is in the top ten (8th). Safeties were a tough call, but here again, they are the last folks to stop a score (kind of like a goalie). Denver is #1 in stopping all yards, and #2 in stopping points. (PITT is 7th and 8th respectively).
I meant no disrespect. Given that Denver is in the top three in 3 categories, and top 10 in a 4th, shouldn’t most of their units rank higher than PITT’s? (PITT ranks 1,7,8,16th in the four critical categories).
Formerly known as HoosierTeacher or just HT.
"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe
by Steve Nichols on Nov 6, 2009 2:16 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Food for thought...
I’m not an ESPN fan, but here’s where they rank our positions…
QB RB WR OL DL LB DB ST Coach
P D P D P P D D P
Formerly known as HoosierTeacher or just HT.
"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe
by Steve Nichols on Nov 6, 2009 2:20 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Ugh, that didn't copy well.
Suffice it to say they only gave PITT one more credit on defense than I did.
Formerly known as HoosierTeacher or just HT.
"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe
by Steve Nichols on Nov 6, 2009 2:21 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
I think you should try to incorporate deep yardage into your safety analysis instead of just scoring. For example:
Denver has allowed 15 passing plays of 20+ yards, and 1 of 40+.
Steelers have allowed 17 of 20+, and 2 of 40+.
Denver has allowed 2 running plays of 20+ yards, and 0 of 40+.
Steelers have allowed 4 running plays of 20+ yards, and 0 of 40+.
Anyhow, that’s another data point for your cap. Steelers fans like Johnny_S will rightly point out that a lot of that is without Troy, but who is going to go look through all of that?
You sure Ike isn’t reacquainting himself with his fingers, he certainly doesn’t use them for catching. - Brian (DaBolts) on "Face Me Ike"
by steelguy99 on Nov 6, 2009 2:34 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Good points.
There are so many variables that become more difficult when we dig deeper. One is, “Were those deeper yards given up because there were more deep plays against the team, or because the team failed to stop the few that there were?”
Frankly, I hate stats. I got my masters in Poli Sci, and struggled mightly with stats (and anything else math related). I was facinated with many of the concepts, but had to apply myself much more than in any other area.
Formerly known as HoosierTeacher or just HT.
"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe
by Steve Nichols on Nov 6, 2009 4:26 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Great Stuff, HT
This doesn’t happen often, but I have some quibbles. After seeing the way he’s been dismantled by many teams, I think Ben Hamilton has to be classified as a liability in pass protection.
On the Broncos’ WRs, I feel we can no longer dodge the question: What’s wrong with Eddie Royal? I know you’re a defensive guy, but I wanted to sound you out on this. After watching a game in which the Saints dismantled the Atlanta defense with hitches, curls, screens and other tightly executed short routes, my gut says it’s simply too early for Royal and the broncos’ other receivers to have developed the requisite precision in the new system. I’m curious as to your thoughts and anybody else’s on this.
by Chibronx on Nov 6, 2009 1:25 PM MST reply actions 0 recs
You may be right.
Hamilton may be the weakest link in pass protection. But overall (as I wrote), the OL is pretty darned good. Our strength is at OT and OC. No disagreement there. (BTW, our middle three doesn’t have the benefit of a FB in to block on most plays, but that doesn’t detract from your point).
Royal is best when he catches the ball while still in stride. (Some folks call this a “speed” receiver, but speed isn’t neccassarily the issue. It can be agility too). He is not the possession kind of guy that can hunch down, make the catch, then knock some “poor” defender out of the way.
I still respect Royal. Given that we are using the short, high percentage plays as the team continues to adjust, Royal won’t get many slants or go routes for awhile. As Orton progresses (and he’s alread better than many might have expected), I expect that Royal will be allowed to run the routes he prefers.as time goes on.
That’s just my guess. I think Royal has demonstrated the ability to run the routes, and has the precision. I just don’t think it matches Denver’s needs right now.
Formerly known as HoosierTeacher or just HT.
"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe
by Steve Nichols on Nov 6, 2009 3:01 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
This leads me to a question, and I’m not asking this to be snarky (I’d really like to know)…what makes you believe our OL is bad? Is it our sack quantity?
Last year our OL was undeniably a weakness. A huge blustering hole of a weakness, terrible, awful, I don’t have enough adjectives bad. This year though, even the most nay-saying of naysayers is having a hard time complaining.
In the run game, the holes have been there in spades. In the pass game, they have been very good at picking up the blitz and as much as it pains most steelers fans to admit it…excellent at pass protection.
Last year a lot of OL defenders liked to use the “Ben holds on to the ball too long argument”. Personally I found that argument weak last year, but now I find myself using it. Most of us steelers fans have come around to the fact that Ben is going to take sacks, but this year he has truly been impressive in this regard. The shining moment was definitely the time where after being given plenty of time the pocket collapsed and he then ran backwards 19 yards (!) to take a sack and put us out of field goal range. In general Ben has had oodles of time, and as one catchy announcer coined “has time to read the post-gazette back there”.
Thus, I’m led to believe that an assessment on the OL play in pass protection is based on sack totals, though I am certainly willing to listen if you have other arguments.
All of that being said, I do not think our OL will be able to do a good job against Denver. I’d love to be wrong.
You sure Ike isn’t reacquainting himself with his fingers, he certainly doesn’t use them for catching. - Brian (DaBolts) on "Face Me Ike"
by steelguy99 on Nov 6, 2009 3:15 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
I think...
…it’s a combination of sacks allowed and your 19th ranked rushing attack that lead many to believe your O Line is a weakness. While you make good points in Ben holding the ball too long and many have pointed out your rushing ranking is based more off of not utilizing the run as opposed not being able to run, I think the sacks and rushing totals combined with your O Line play last year is what gives people that impression.
You guys have been watching your team every game though and I’ve heard many Steelers fans praise your O Line’s effort this year so I will take your word for it that your O Line is not much of a weakness.
Whether it is the O Line, the QB, or the receivers fault for all of the sacks it doesn’t really matter to me. Giving up lots of sacks is not good, especially when you are facing one of the top sack generating D’s this week.
Can’t wait for an excellent game this week! Good luck (except for on Monday of course)!
We confide in our strength without boasting of it; we respect that of others, without fearing it. -Thomas Jefferson 1793
by c_style on Nov 6, 2009 4:32 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
You guys will get your sacks, of that there is no question.
You sure Ike isn’t reacquainting himself with his fingers, he certainly doesn’t use them for catching. - Brian (DaBolts) on "Face Me Ike"
by steelguy99 on Nov 7, 2009 7:34 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs
I could be wrong.
Here’s the statement that caused the debate…
“On the other hand, if PIT has a weakness, I think it is the OL. Big Ben has been sacked 20 times this year, and faces a terrific pass rush from Denver. I think the OL is improving, but they have a ways to go.”
I think PITT has a great offense from front to back. “IF” (and I used the word “if” in the story) PIT has a weakness, I think it is the OL. I (like you) thinks PIT faces a terrific pass rush from Denver. Even in Denver’s losing effort against the Ravens, the Broncos were in the Ravens backfield on an awful lot of the plays. Both front sevens dominated that game.
20 sacks is a big number, especialy from my vantage in Denver (some of us call the Denver OL “The Secret Service”). How about a LT giving up 1/2 a sack over the course of a season? I hear your concern that Ben holds onto the ball, but I blame the WRs for this.
So then the question becomes, do you want to downgrade Ben, the OL, or the receivers for those sacks? I blame the WRs (and I put this in my comparison against Denver’s WR). I have a hard time blaming Ben, as good as he is. Yet, as good as he is, a sack is a loss of yards and carries the potential for a fumble. In my mind, Ben must have more time. If the receivers can’t help him, the OL simply must step up and do more. (Orton doesn’t take a lot of sacks, but he IS quick to throw away a lot passes to prevent the sack. Would Ben consider that?)
Just my thinking, but (unlike the national media) you get to see where I’m coming from, and have the discussion. You also get the benefit of the doubt from me in one crucial area. The national media doesn’t focus on a team, so they recycle stories and buy into a lot of hype. I’m willing to read your points, and conceed that I may have your OL tagged wrong, and that makes all of our readers (at both sites) more educated.
Still, in considering both OLs, I’ll take the Denver OL and their stats. I also feel better about the Denver pass rush against Ben than the PIT pass rush against Orton. I think that’s a fair evaluation based on the season so far. There are strengths both ways. (For example, I would take Ben in a trade for Orton in a NY second). There’s enough good to go around.
Both teams have a shot at the post season. Denver has the tougher schedule (based on current wins and loses for both teams), but The Steelers have an amazingly tough division with BAL and CIN playing as good as they are.
And of course, PIT gets a tip of the hat for the SB win (a game I thoroughly enjoyed).
: )
Formerly known as HoosierTeacher or just HT.
"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe
by Steve Nichols on Nov 6, 2009 4:43 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Our offense isn’t perfect, but they have been getting the job done this year as the defense has dropped off a bit. The thing that you can expect from the steelers offense is that they are going to run into trouble. They will probably throw an INT (either from a bad throw or a mis-run route by Holmes) and Ben will probably get sacked a bit.
I think the premise to this offense is, so what? They expect to get sacked, they expect bad fortune. You look at all of the offensive stats (3rd down rate, yards, scoring, etc) and realize that after 20 sacks, 6 interceptions, and countless fumbles, they are still performing better than the denver offense. Opposing teams aren’t having a “field day” when they get 5 sacks, that’s just another day at the office.
This isn’t to say that any of this is good. It’s just to say that our offense has ugly, glaring holes, but they are still going to put points on the board somehow.
In answer to this question:
Orton doesn’t take a lot of sacks, but he IS quick to throw away a lot passes to prevent the sack. Would Ben consider that?
Ben’s YPA is 8.8. This is currently the highest (tied with a. rodgers sacked 31 times) YPA in the league. Kyle Orton is hanging with his 7.0 in the company of Sanchez, Campbell,etc.
Ben’s Completion % is 70.4 (2nd highest in league). Orton’s is at 63.6 on basically the same number of attempts. I do believe Ben is more accurate, but I also don’t know that I’ve seen Ben throw the ball out of bounds once this season. Seriously.
You sure Ike isn’t reacquainting himself with his fingers, he certainly doesn’t use them for catching. - Brian (DaBolts) on "Face Me Ike"
by steelguy99 on Nov 7, 2009 7:49 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Oh, also, I’m not trying to stir a Ben/Orton debate. Not only because I couldn’t keep a straight face through it (I kid!) but because I think Orton is clearly great for you guys. I think Ben would succeed greatly behind your line. However, I also think the broncos are 6-1, Orton is relatively cheap, and the broncos made a genius move with Chicago.
All that matters is the W column, and Orton seems to be doing just fine.
You sure Ike isn’t reacquainting himself with his fingers, he certainly doesn’t use them for catching. - Brian (DaBolts) on "Face Me Ike"
by steelguy99 on Nov 7, 2009 7:51 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs
I like this guy.
If this be Hell, let us make the most of it!
by Trinidad Jack on Nov 7, 2009 11:59 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Me too.
I also agree with his points.
Formerly known as HoosierTeacher or just HT.
"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe
by Steve Nichols on Nov 7, 2009 1:37 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Breaking News
Ty Law set to sign with Broncos. Just has to pass a physical tonight.
Moreno 09 and beyond!!!
by BroncoKO on Nov 6, 2009 1:27 PM MST via mobile reply actions 0 recs
Yah just saw the DP's tweet on Law
denverbroncos
Adam Schefter of ESPN reporting that the Broncos have reached an agreement with veteran CB Ty Law, pending a physical.
Think this is to give them more DB backfield depth given they have some injuries there right now?
The commenter formerly known as "Dashiell".
by underdog on Nov 6, 2009 1:28 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Wow...
Very interesting. Concerns about MF Williams and the Phonze?
by legendarywalton on Nov 6, 2009 1:28 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Walton, makes one wonder for sure
Barrett was covering very well on the big nickel and they have been going to it more. Sure it interesting.
"Wait, let me explain something to you...I'm the Dude. So, that's what you call me. You know, that, or 'His Dudeness,' or 'Duder,' or 'El Duderino,' if you're not into the whole brevity thing."
by TJ Johnson on Nov 6, 2009 1:33 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
I don't want to say that it really says a lot so early in his development...
I just thought that the staff talked him up so much, that he’d really contribute. I do like that we’re attracting tough veteran guys though. Just can’t shake the images of Simeon Rice in a broncos uniform.
by legendarywalton on Nov 6, 2009 1:46 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Or concerns about the entire secondary?
Factor in injuries to Barrett and Bruton too.
To be honest though, I don’t get this signing.
Formerly known as HoosierTeacher or just HT.
"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe
by Steve Nichols on Nov 6, 2009 3:02 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Similarly, there is:
http://www.steelerfury.com/content/gospel-8rocky-mountain-high
I expect you all will find as much to disagree with in this piece as I would in this one.
You sure Ike isn’t reacquainting himself with his fingers, he certainly doesn’t use them for catching. - Brian (DaBolts) on "Face Me Ike"
by steelguy99 on Nov 6, 2009 1:30 PM MST reply actions 0 recs
I'll stick with MHR and the Steelers SBN site.
: )
Formerly known as HoosierTeacher or just HT.
"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe
by Steve Nichols on Nov 6, 2009 3:04 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Traffic has been pretty light around there this week. Everyone is still asleep from the bye. Hopefully not the steelers.
You sure Ike isn’t reacquainting himself with his fingers, he certainly doesn’t use them for catching. - Brian (DaBolts) on "Face Me Ike"
by steelguy99 on Nov 6, 2009 3:16 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Two points
1.I love what Dumervil has done for the first 7 games and I feel that he is as important to this defense as Jared Allen is in Minnesota,but hopfully he has not fallen in love with the sack.The Ravens faced 3rd and long at midfield in a 6 point ball game.With a stop Denver gets the ball back,probably deep in their own territory,but if Denver can put together a drive,we have a ballgae.Dumervil,perhaps seizing his opportunity to sack
Flacco in an obvious passing situation,jumps offside and gives the Ravens another chance to make a first down.The next play Reid jumps offiside and this is looking ridiculous. 3rd and 2 and Flacco still goes back to pass,has plenty of time and evades pass rushers, with the Denver defenders afraid to fire off the ball in fear of another penalty,and puts the Ravens into Field Goal territory.
2.I have no doubt that the Denver pass rush will get to Reothlisberger,but once there they have to bring Big Ben down.I dont know how many times Denver had Flacco trapped in the backfield last Sunday only to have Flacco evade pass rushers and get a completion for a first down.With Denver sure to bring 5 to 6 or even 7 pass rushers,the secondary will be exposed if Big Ben has time to pass
by OrangeCrush4082 on Nov 6, 2009 1:54 PM MST reply actions 0 recs
Excellent, EXCELLENT points.
Let me start with #2.
Ben is very hard to bring down. Not only can he move, but he’s a b-i-g guy. I have this horrible picture vision of Doom slicing through the PIT OL, getting to Ben, and getting judo flipped 20 yards away as Ben continues to look downfield four minutes after the play started. lol
Your other point is good too. That seemed like a key moment in the game to me. Good call!
Formerly known as HoosierTeacher or just HT.
"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe
by Steve Nichols on Nov 6, 2009 4:49 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
I disagree with a lot of your comparisons
Mainly the WRs and the LBs. Don’t feel like debating my team vs your team, but I do have a question. If Ryan Clark was playing, would you give the nod to our Safeties?
" I’m glad we play Pitt twice, and not Tenn this year." - Salty Browns Fan.
by Johnny_S on Nov 6, 2009 1:59 PM MST reply actions 0 recs
I might call it even.
I’ve addressed the LB issue already. I think that the Steelers have the big names right now, but Denver is putting up better stats in preventing yards, points, and passing yards. PITT’s best stat is stopping the run (#1), but even there Denver is #3. There are other micro stats that we haven’t even covered (such as, “Name one LB on the Steelers with more sacks than Dumervil this year”) because I’m not trying to prove that one team is better. I’m just looking at what the stats lead us to infer.
I’m also basing my comparisons on what has happened so far this year, and on who will be playing. Clark won’t play for the Steelers Monday, but heck, Denver doesn’t have Elway either.
The best factor for PITT in terms of Safeties is that you will have Troy for years to come, while the window is closing on our entire secondary. In that vein, I like you secondary much more. But this year we are presenting a defense that is just outperforming the Steelers so far. That doesn’t take away from the fact that the Steelers have one of the best defenses in the entire League by any stretch.
(I’ve noticed that most sites are split on the LB question, but slightly over half favor the Denver secondary).
Formerly known as HoosierTeacher or just HT.
"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe
by Steve Nichols on Nov 6, 2009 3:14 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Name one LB on the Steelers with more sacks than Dumervil this year
Ok… then name a LB on the Broncos who has more forced fumbles than James Harrison this year. Dumerville might have 2 more sacks, but Harrison has the 2 more FF. I’d rather get a turnover than a sack.
Denver is putting up better stats in preventing yards, points, and passing yards
Yes, but as I said before, you were not missing the best defender on your team for 5 games. Troy Polamalu is the reason we can do a lot of the things we do on defense. Even if he isn’t making plays, his mere presence makes QBs work much harder. Once he is 100% I expect our defensive stats to become much better.
Anyway, I was saying an if Clark was playing. I believe if Troy was 100% and Clark were playing, our safeties are better. I don’t know if I would say our entire secondary is better, since we are having struggles with our 3rd and 4th DB.
" I’m glad we play Pitt twice, and not Tenn this year." - Salty Browns Fan.
by Johnny_S on Nov 7, 2009 8:33 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs
i'm not sure about this and i don't the stats to back it up but
i believe like..4 or 5 of dumervil’s sacks were on 3rd down. isn’t that essentially a turnover? plus we’ve recovered more fumbles :D and isn’t that what counts more? if you’re FF but not recovering them…thats basically just a sack or a tackle.
yeah he missed for 5 games but he came back the last two games right? ya’ll gave up 197 yards and 14 points to cleveland. we gave up 200 and 6 points. i would say points are the most important and gotta give the checkmark to our defense. and two weeks ago, again with polamalu, you gave up 17 points and 423 yards to minnesota. the defense just doesn’t seem like the dominant defense of the last couple of years. its still good, but not amazing and i agree with Steve when he says our defense may be a little better
by march20 on Nov 7, 2009 9:33 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs
isn’t that essentially a turnover?
No, because the other team gets a chance to punt. Pushing you 40+ yards further down field. With a turnover you get the ball in much better field position. And if the turnover is in the RZ you stop them from scoring.
plus we’ve recovered more fumbles
I was comparing individuals, since that’s what he did. You cannot blame the guy who forces the fumble if his teammates do not pounce on it. Fumble recoveries are based on luck anyway, since there is no rhyme or reason to how a football bounces.
yeah he missed for 5 games but he came back the last two games right? ya’ll gave up 197 yards and 14 points to cleveland. we gave up 200 and 6 points
So you didn’t watch the game? You know Joshua Cribbs had a ST TD, right? So you cannot exactly blame that on our defense.
you gave up 17 points and 423 yards to minnesota.
Ironic that you left out how we held one of, if not the best, players in the NFL under 100 yards and how the defense won the game with two defensive touchdowns. No surprise our defense gave up a lot of yards considering our offense only had the ball once in the 4th quarter for only 3 minutes. That’s a lot of time for Minn to get yards, yards which meant nothing.
" I’m glad we play Pitt twice, and not Tenn this year." - Salty Browns Fan.
by Johnny_S on Nov 7, 2009 9:47 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs
i'm not saying your defense is bad..
… i’m just saying it isn’t as dominant as it was in previous years. fine 197 yards and 7 points and 200 and 6 points. we still only gave up 2 field goals and you gave up a TD. yes you scored two defensive TDs but the steelers defense from years past would not give up those yards. yeah you held the best RB in the NFL under 100 yards but in years past it wasn’t about whether or not your defense could hold the best rusher under 100 yards but whether or not the best RB in the league could gain 100 yards on your defense. Your defense is definitely strong, easily one of the top 5 defenses but it just doesn’t have the same dominant feel from years past.
by march20 on Nov 7, 2009 12:31 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Defense winning you the game = dominant. Especially, against a very, very good offense in Minnesota.
" I’m glad we play Pitt twice, and not Tenn this year." - Salty Browns Fan.
by Johnny_S on Nov 7, 2009 1:38 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Except for one game,
…Denver’s defense has been winning a lot of games, including against the 5th, 6th, and 7th ranked teams in the NFL (CIN, DAL, and NE). That’s not too shabby either.
Formerly known as HoosierTeacher or just HT.
"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe
by Steve Nichols on Nov 7, 2009 1:56 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
I’d take Minnesota’s offense over all three of those, but that’s just me.
" I’m glad we play Pitt twice, and not Tenn this year." - Salty Browns Fan.
by Johnny_S on Nov 7, 2009 2:17 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
you keep missin my point man lol..
.. its just not as dominant as before. it used to be where your defense pretty much won EVERY single game for you. if it wasn’t by scoring themselves, it was by keeping you in the game long enough for your offense now to muster the points to win. Maybe its just different now since yoru offense looks good that your defense doesn’t have to be as tightly wound as it used to be but i don’t think your defense is the “hold our opponents to single digits” defense from years past
by march20 on Nov 7, 2009 3:01 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Sorry, I still disagree with you. As a fan who watches every single Steelers game, I have to say it’s still a dominant defense. It just has not put up the numbers this year because of key injuries. Once it is healthy, its going to make for a very powerful team on both sides of the ball.
" I’m glad we play Pitt twice, and not Tenn this year." - Salty Browns Fan.
by Johnny_S on Nov 7, 2009 3:32 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
I see where folks are talking past one another.
March and I are talking about what we’ve seen, and what the results say. You are excusing some areas by pointing out that you don’t have certain players on the field. That may be a cultural difference between sites. Over here, we only look at what happened, regardless of who was on the field or not. You’ve clearly watched more PIT games than we have, but the numbers I pull up support what happened; they don’t adjust for injured players.
Like I’ve pointed out elsewhere, we can’t excuse our offense because Elway is no longer our QB, nor can we excuse our running game last year because we had 5 or 6 RBs on IR. At the end of the day, you play with the players you have and only they make a difference.
Formerly known as HoosierTeacher or just HT.
"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe
by Steve Nichols on Nov 7, 2009 4:23 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
I haven’t addressed that Elway argument, but since you are using it again, I feel I have to. John Elway is no longer on your team. That is a completely different issue than missing a player who currently on your roster. You did not construct your offense around having John Elway behind center. We, however, did construct our defense around having Troy, and those other guys, on the field. This argument is seems senseless to me.
Anyway, I am saying we are still a dominate defense. You don’t have to buy it, but the Broncos fans who are predicting 30+ points for your team might be surprised on Monday.
" I’m glad we play Pitt twice, and not Tenn this year." - Salty Browns Fan.
by Johnny_S on Nov 7, 2009 4:55 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
i'm sorry but that sounds ridiculous
the whole point of having a defensive coordinator is so he can adjust, to work with the guys he has on the field, not building a system around the guys he’s supposed to have. we’ve had that problem the past couple of years and thats why we’ve fired 3 different defensive coordinators. DIck Lebeau is obviously not one of those types of guys and i’m sure his system is NOT rigidly based around troy polamalu. As talented as polamalu is, he does not make up the entire defense. you don’t instantly go from a dominant defense to mediocre cause of one guy
by march20 on Nov 7, 2009 6:36 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Again, clearly you have not watched a lot of Steelers football. Troy Polamalu is the reason LeBeau can scheme a lot of the things the way he has. Troy IS that good. He is essentially the quarterback of our defense. When you lose your quarterback you don’t simply replace him with the next guy. Things change in how your system works.
LeBeau dialed back the blitzes after Troy went down this year. Tyrone Carter is an ample replacement, but he does not offer the skill set that Troy does.
" I’m glad we play Pitt twice, and not Tenn this year." - Salty Browns Fan.
by Johnny_S on Nov 8, 2009 7:24 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs
and clearly you are missing my point again!
i’m not talking about simply replacing troy, i’m saying lebeau is an amazing enough coordinator to come up with a new system when given a different group of players with a different group of skill sets! lebeau didn’t have polamalu when he coached tin the 1990s yet was still successful given the players he had with the steelers and bengals.
when we signed jake plummer, a QB known for his running and movement in and out of the pocket. shanahan dialed up the mis-direction plays. he adapted the offense to fit the skillset that plummer brought to the field. When cutler took over the helm, he changed the scheme again, putting in more pocket passing due to cutler’s superior passing ability over plummer but inferior “roll out” ability.
I don’t think its too much to expect the same out of lebeau; that he would be able to adapt a new scheme to fit the new personnel (without polamalu) and still be successful, yet the success is not there which is why i feel like there is something missing from your defense, with or without polamalu.
by march20 on Nov 8, 2009 8:20 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Johnny...
…those comments were meant entirely for a guy who came in and peed on the carpet. As I (hope I) made clear, the arguments he was making, and my responses, were clearly geared for a guy without class and not the clear majority of PIT fans, who have been classy and well reasoned.
I certainly don’t intend to debate those points with PIT fans at large, just with this trolish character.
Formerly known as HoosierTeacher or just HT.
"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe
by Steve Nichols on Nov 7, 2009 1:39 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
I’m confused? You responded to my comment initially?
" I’m glad we play Pitt twice, and not Tenn this year." - Salty Browns Fan.
by Johnny_S on Nov 7, 2009 1:44 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
My fault...
…I had just re-read Surag’s comment, and I though I was under that thread. My apologies!
Formerly known as HoosierTeacher or just HT.
"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe
by Steve Nichols on Nov 7, 2009 1:45 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Johnny...
I’ve answered the point on missing Troy (shoulda, coulda, woulda).
In the case of turnovers vs sacks – I hear you. We can always take one stat over another. For example, as a former DC, I’d take hurry-ups over sacks (more chance of turnovers, creates more difficulties for defense, etc). I understand taking FF over sacks. But we can just keep one upping each other. This is where I point out the stats on Denver holding opponents to the lowest yards in the League and the second fewest points (not to mention 3rd in stoping run and 8th in stopping pass). I could further one up with games won/lost. But that gets away from the point.
In the end, I prefer the more strategic stats, as they determine who wins games (yards, run, pass, points, etc). Folks can quibble over the tactical stats (sacks, FFs, etc), but the macro level is the result of those micro stats. The team with the macro level must have been doing the “small” things right to get the better macro stats.
In my opinion, anyway.
Formerly known as HoosierTeacher or just HT.
"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe
by Steve Nichols on Nov 7, 2009 1:52 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Well after this weekend I hope this will all be null and void after we beat you. Then we won’t need to compare one stat to another. Haha =P
" I’m glad we play Pitt twice, and not Tenn this year." - Salty Browns Fan.
by Johnny_S on Nov 7, 2009 2:10 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Yes.
And either way, I hope you’ll be cheering us on in the AFC Championship game against Indy.
lol
Formerly known as HoosierTeacher or just HT.
"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe
by Steve Nichols on Nov 7, 2009 4:25 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Also...
…the point on missing Troy was answered. Stats, points, wins and losses don’t care who is or isn’t on the field.
I addressed this when I mentioned that Elway hasn’t played for us for years, but we don’t get to use that as an excuse. I used to coach (I was a DC), and we never tried to excuse performance by pointing to our injury roster.
Again, the arguments I made weren’t directed at PIT fans in general, and neither was my tone. I’m not into going to other team’s sites and insulting writers and being snarky, but this guy chose to. Any smack down on my part shouldn’t be taken as a swipe at the Steelers (one of my favorite teams) or their fans (who have been classy and intelligent).
Formerly known as HoosierTeacher or just HT.
"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe
by Steve Nichols on Nov 7, 2009 1:44 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
surag238 is very brash and can lack a filter. Hopefully, his attitude hasn’t ruined it for you, as many of us over at BTSC are very friendly (and generally goof balls) who like to talk some good football. I don’t see any reason why we can’t have a good relation, since I am sure there will be further match-ups in the future.
" I’m glad we play Pitt twice, and not Tenn this year." - Salty Browns Fan.
by Johnny_S on Nov 7, 2009 2:14 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
I can tell that he doesn't fit the profile of Steelers fans.
All the Steelers fans I know are classy, hard working, football loving people. Every team has some joker fan that reflects badly. (I know most of us were horrified many years ago when a few Bronco fans threw snowball covered batteries at opposing players. That isn’t Bronco fandom, nor is Surag’s lack of tact a reflection on Steelers fans).
Formerly known as HoosierTeacher or just HT.
"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe
by Steve Nichols on Nov 7, 2009 4:28 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
No offense...but that was horrible analsysis
Really? You decided to stack up game statistics and rankings and use that as a way to compare the teams? Thats really bad. awful. no offense…even though it comes across offensive.
There is no legitimate way anyone can truly compare rankings and assume some iota of knowledge can be gleaned from it. we play different teams. i dont care if those teams played each other. what matters is that WE PLAYED DIFFERENT TEAMS. as a result you cant really compare the two. sure we played the bengals, whatever…thats one team…statistically and scientifically speaking comparing rankings is not a valid way to even gain the smallest of insights. its meaningless.
second, you really think your linebackers are better than THE STEELERS LBS?
who are you comparing? dumerville to james harrison? you think your LBs are better than woodley? than timmons? than farrior? is this a joke?
and now you think that dawkins gets the edge of TP? TP is so good he’s better than 2 safeties. the guy is a beast. dawkins was good back in the day. theres a reason why eagles were happy to let him go. he cant pass defend for his life. at all. he’s like roy williams from dallas(name check). sure he’s your heart of the defense and gets them fired up but how often have i seen him walking around with muscle cramps. he’s an old guy. 36. even though he’s still in great shape….you cant possible expect him to be that spectacular. he does his job well. i’ll give him that. but dont give him too much credit…he’s a big hitter and a run stopper. thats about it.
champ bailey is a beast. if i were ben i’d never throw his side. i know in madden I dont..lol.
look, orton is NOT FOR REAL. the guy cant throw deep. maybe he’s learning, maybe he’s getting used to the system but right now based on his actions this year he’s not for real…YET. maybe im wrong. maybe this game he’ll throw all day deep passes. but he’s not there yet and i just dont see it. orton’s got a long ways to go. thats the primary reason why they wont do well this game. the steelers will pressure orton all day, and the coverage on the inside will be good. i dunno how well he’ll be able to read the game but if he can’t read the schemes and masked blitzes then he’s going to have a long day.
by surag238 on Nov 6, 2009 4:23 PM MST reply actions 0 recs
what else could he go on?
no statistics aren’t everything..but what else do you use when you compare two teams? they’re never totally correct but they are usually correct. Right now, the best teams in the league have strong statistics and high rankings in certain areas, no team is going to make the playoffs with the 32nd offense and defense.
at the moment, yes the denver’s LB are better than yours (you sound like a steelers fan :D) they are performing their jobs better than your LBs (though i have to agree that yours’ are more talented).
Bdawk is amazing at what he does, theres nothing more we could ask of him. he was brought in to be a big hitter and an adequate pass defenser. we don’t only keep him for his defensive prowess (i think thats the right word?) but for his leadership as well. No one is denying polamalu’s talent but bdawkins and hill is better as a tandum vs polamalu and clark (will you be starting mundy his backup?)
Orton is for real. its not about how good a QB is overall, its about how well he fits into a system. i mean how could graham harrell be one of the best QBs in college but be shown to lack so much talent for the NFL? he fit the system that tech ran and knew how to make the correct reads and throws for that system. Thats what Orton does. He fits mcdaniels system. He hasn’t made the deep throws because the system doesn’t demand it of him. I don’t think they’ve called for too many deep passes.
by march20 on Nov 6, 2009 4:38 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Surag,
No offense, but that was a horrible comment.
: )
First, I’m sorry that you don’t like the stats that the NFL provided to me. You may have failed to notice that of the 8 “critical stats”, I credited PITT for 4, Denver for 3, and one was a tie. Are you upset that I credited PIT for that? That would seem…. silly.
“WE PLAYED DIFFERENT TEAMS. as a result you cant really compare the two…”
I see. SInce we played different teams this year, game previews are a foolish pursuit. Got it. By the way, you may recall that I gave PIT some credit for playing different teams than Denver did. The teams Denver played have won more than half of their games, while PIT’s opponents have a losing record.
So yes, we’ve played different teams, and Denver has played the tougher ones. But that doesn’t matter. Ok. Shame we won’t have a Super Bowl this year. After all, we can’t use the records of teams that have played “other” teams, now can we? Let’s just cut the NFL down to 2 teams and go from there.
statistically and scientifically speaking comparing rankings is not a valid way to even gain the smallest of insights. its meaningless.
Got it. Cold, hard numbers are out too. Good thing. While were at it, let’s just throw out the points on the scoreboard too. We’re much better off evaluating a team based on how cool their uniforms are. (And may I say, all joking aside, that the PIT uniform with the yellow helmet and jersey is the coolest one in the League. I really mean that).
who are you comparing? dumerville to james harrison? you think your LBs are better than woodley? than timmons? than farrior? is this a joke?
Here are a few jokes. A Raider, a nun, and a prostitute walk into a bar. The bartender says, “Is this a joke?”
Here’s another one. The other night, a real hot chick calls me and says, “Hey baby, c’mon over to my place. There’se nobody home!” Excited, I raced right over. Guess what? Nobody was home! I get no respect at all.
And here’s the coup de grace (that’s something along the lines of “the finishing touch” for you Surag), and it remains one of my favorite jokes.
My man Dumervil has 10 sacks all by himself. How many PIT LBs does it take to screw in a lightbulb match that total? Answer – Woodley, Farrior, and Timmons have combined for less sacks than Dumervil. You have to use Harrison and a combination of other LBs to beat 10.
CRAP! I forgot, we aren’t allowed to use numbers anymore. Sorry. Forgot.
Something unintelligible about Dawkins being past his prime…
Wow. Just wow. Someone has obviously not been watching Denver football this year. Go back to your Madden game son.
BTW, I have a lot of respect for Troy. I even use his first name (in part because his last name is tough to spell, but for the same reason that I often called Elway “John”). But be careful when you start typing that Dawkins is old and prone to injuries. By last count, Troy has missed more games this season than Dawkins has. I’m not dissing Troy (and decent PIT fans will know this). I’m just saying that playing the injury card when your guy has been MIA is pathetic.
What I love about Troy is that he is a young Dawkins who has many years in front of him. But Troy has a glaring weakness. He has a fan that thinks Dawkins is too old. Even Troy wouldn’t say that.
champ bailey is a beast. if i were ben i’d never throw his side. i know in madden I dont..lol.
Why thank you. When you’re finished with Madden and want to be a coordinator for a few years, let me know how it goes.
look, orton is NOT FOR REAL
I agree. He is quite “UNREAL”. We love him. Let’s see…
He sucks so bad, that his rating fluctuates between high 90s and low 100s. Yeah, Hate that.
1 interception all year long. Get that? One. Do you know how it happened? WIth about a second at the end of the first half, he threw a bomb down the field on a hail Mary pass. Completely his fault, I’m sure.
Let’s see, best TD to INT ratio in the League,
CRAP! Sorry, I’m back to numbers again. And I’m forgetting about that “noodle” arm of his. The same one that throws down the field and gets a lot of laughs at MHR’s game day threads because we can take a shot of our favorite drink for everytime some idiot announcer has to say, “I guess he CAN throw down field”. Yeah, it happens every game.
Look, like you said, “no offense”. But your comments were perhaps the most ignorant things I’ve ever read at MHR. We’re all more ignorant for having read them. So this film clip is just for you…
Formerly known as HoosierTeacher or just HT.
"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe
by Steve Nichols on Nov 6, 2009 5:32 PM MST up reply actions 1 recs
Ok here. (sorry, numbers got in the way).
Please watch HERE.
Formerly known as HoosierTeacher or just HT.
"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe
by Steve Nichols on Nov 6, 2009 5:35 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Well, one of them.
Just about every PIT guy came over and disagreed with me, was cool about it, showed class, and had reasoned arguments.
But starting off a comment with “No offense…” is almost assuredly asking for trouble. (Sometimes no offense is really meant, but the snark in that rant was just so “out there” that I needed a good laugh).
Formerly known as HoosierTeacher or just HT.
"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe
by Steve Nichols on Nov 6, 2009 7:23 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
So tell him what you really think.
No offense surag but I think you came up very short there.
If this be Hell, let us make the most of it!
by Trinidad Jack on Nov 7, 2009 12:10 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
I have no further questions for Mr. Surag.
Your witness counsel.
Formerly known as HoosierTeacher or just HT.
"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe
by Steve Nichols on Nov 7, 2009 1:57 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Good comebacks HT
By the way, I liked this quote from your most thorough article:
For what it is worth (and in the eyes of Denver’s coaching staff, it isn’t going to be worth anything), I think Denver needs to get back to the ZB.
I can’t agree with you more. Let the team spend the next year or two grooming younger and bigger O-linemen for the power running game. We are currently not built for that, and to try to use it may be one reason why we’re off to such slow starts.
Great breakdown through and through. Thanks HT and I agree that predicting this matchup is really tough. Our only advantages may be the defense and ST kick/punt returns.
"All credibility, all good conscience, all evidence of truth come only from the senses." Friedrich Nietzsche
by Horsepower on Nov 6, 2009 11:22 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
And one more thing.
This butt kicking was brought to you by MHR University, we build football minds.
And by the number 10. The number of sacks so far that Dumervil has.
And by the letter “O”. As in, “No ’O’ffense, but that was a horrible analysis”.
And by Sprint. We at MHR love them. (Sponsors! Woo Hoo!) They keep the site free so that the world can read butt kickings like this.
We now return you to our otherwise friendly writer and friend, formerly known as Hooserteacher…..
Formerly known as HoosierTeacher or just HT.
"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe
by Steve Nichols on Nov 6, 2009 5:45 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
A+ pop culture references
And fine smackdown form.
Here, in vivid and undeniable contrast, is a picture of two approaches to fanhood – and evidence worthy of a unanimous Supreme Court verdict that it is better to learn and glean and burrow and think…than to bloviate and prejudge.
"Aggression, discipline, accountability, effort" Brian Dawkins 9/29/2009
"Life is a daring adventure or nothing." Helen Keller
"He will always be a slave who does not know how to live upon a little" Horace
by PositivIntegral on Nov 7, 2009 2:11 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs
I always cringe when I see surag’s comments.
You sure Ike isn’t reacquainting himself with his fingers, he certainly doesn’t use them for catching. - Brian (DaBolts) on "Face Me Ike"
by steelguy99 on Nov 7, 2009 7:52 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs
It is no reflection on the proud and mighty Steelers fans.
Every fan base has folks that throw sticks. In Surag’s case, he needs to avoiding poking himself with his own sticks.
The rest of you guys have been very cool, and I wish you guys the best and good luck Monday night!
Formerly known as HoosierTeacher or just HT.
"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe
by Steve Nichols on Nov 7, 2009 2:06 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
As I always say, can we all agree to root for no injuries?
You sure Ike isn’t reacquainting himself with his fingers, he certainly doesn’t use them for catching. - Brian (DaBolts) on "Face Me Ike"
by steelguy99 on Nov 8, 2009 7:38 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Always.
I don’t even root for injuries against the raiders.
Formerly known as HoosierTeacher or just HT.
"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe
by Steve Nichols on Nov 8, 2009 1:37 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Informative, well written piece.
While I do not agree with all of your assesments, it is interesting to read of the strengths and weaknesses of our upcoming opponent.
I hate to pick, but the “Iron Curtain” divided Eastern and Western Europe after World War 2. The “Steel Curtain” refers to the Steelers defensive line of the 70’s, or arguably, the entire Steelers defense of the 70’s. Besides that, I enjoyed your post, and appreciate all the work it required.
"I believe the game is designed to reward the ones who hit the hardest. If you can't take it, you shouldn't play." Jack Lambert
by LongTimeSteelersFan on Nov 6, 2009 5:30 PM MST reply actions 0 recs
LOL
Of course, you are right. As a poli sci student AND a football fan for many years, I should have known better.
Having lived through much of the Cold War, and having lived (at one time) in the house most closest to the tri-border marker of West Germany, East Germany, and Czechoslovokia, I hope you’ll forgive the error. (Its an embarassing one, but worth the laugh).
Formerly known as HoosierTeacher or just HT.
"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe
by Steve Nichols on Nov 6, 2009 5:39 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Ok, now I can laugh with you. I lived in Germany for awhile too during the cold war.
Thanks for the Bronco education, and good luck Monday.
"I believe the game is designed to reward the ones who hit the hardest. If you can't take it, you shouldn't play." Jack Lambert
by LongTimeSteelersFan on Nov 6, 2009 6:40 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Good luck to you too.
All the best to you and yours!
Formerly known as HoosierTeacher or just HT.
"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe
by Steve Nichols on Nov 6, 2009 7:24 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Born in Transylvania and fled in '84 myself...wow
The things you find out about people on blog sites.
"All credibility, all good conscience, all evidence of truth come only from the senses." Friedrich Nietzsche
by Horsepower on Nov 6, 2009 11:24 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
I was fortunate enough to have lived on the west side.
But I saw quite a few terrible things. More than anything, my appreciation of the United States and the military were formed from seeing the stark differences between how folks lived on each side.
Formerly known as HoosierTeacher or just HT.
"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe
by Steve Nichols on Nov 7, 2009 3:16 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Another great read HT
and I absolutely love the 26 seconds of “straight to the point”! Nice!
The QB position is set.
by broncofaninIL on Nov 6, 2009 7:41 PM MST reply actions 0 recs
That was a loaded Chalk Talk....Nice
I am really curious to see how they respond after getting their butts kicked and if they can show everybody what they are made of. I really hope we win this game……really nervous.
2009 NBA Champions L.A Lakers
2009 NBA Finals MVP Kobe Bryant
by weazel on Nov 6, 2009 8:21 PM MST reply actions 0 recs
I don't expect us to kick any butts.
We just aren’t “domineering” in any games. I’ll be happy with a win.
Formerly known as HoosierTeacher or just HT.
"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe
by Steve Nichols on Nov 7, 2009 3:17 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Just one word HT...Wow!
Just a great game analysis. I would love to see the Broncos come out of the tunnel in the no huddle offense. It was definitely one of KO’s strengths in Chicago. Is he ready to call the plays? Let’s put the Stoolers on their collective heals in the firsr quarter!
by rocko1 on Nov 6, 2009 8:51 PM MST reply actions 0 recs
How to beat the Steelers:
Suck in the DE’s and pass to your RB’s. BUT, make sure Troy is out chasing a deep receiver. He gets off his blocks extremely well and get in the backfield like lightening. He’s almost as good a run stopper as their front 3. You have tp pass real deep or real short. The in between is non-existant with Pitt. Troy is that good.
Don’t run much. Maybe 15 times to keep them honest. Screen them to death. Harrison is heads down agressive and leaves his back side open more than a few times a game.
by raven on Nov 6, 2009 10:32 PM MST reply actions 0 recs
I don't think a raven should be giving any advice on how to beat a Steeler
You failed 3 times last year.
" I’m glad we play Pitt twice, and not Tenn this year." - Salty Browns Fan.
by Johnny_S on Nov 7, 2009 8:37 AM MST up reply actions 1 recs
Brilliance johnny.
You sure Ike isn’t reacquainting himself with his fingers, he certainly doesn’t use them for catching. - Brian (DaBolts) on "Face Me Ike"
by steelguy99 on Nov 8, 2009 7:38 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs
nice shot
right between the eyes
"I believe the game is designed to reward the ones who hit the hardest. If you can't take it, you shouldn't play." Jack Lambert
by LongTimeSteelersFan on Nov 8, 2009 9:38 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Play Ty Law ASAP! He’s seen the Steelers many times.
by raven on Nov 6, 2009 10:33 PM MST reply actions 0 recs

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