Orton is not a Franchise QB

by JTBroncos25 on Nov 9, 2009 10:59 PM MST Comment 53 comments

Hey guys first time poster.

I have been a huge neck beard supporter this whole season. I even had myself tricked into thinking he could be way better than his reputation was. I honestly thought the guy just wasn't given a chance on a good team. Well now that is behind me. Kyle Orton missed. Plain and simple. Franchise QBs dont miss. I would say the same about Jay Cutler. Cutler used to miss a lot more so I am not preaching that we made a bad decision. The bottom line is this; We are no where near being close to replacing #7 with at least a servicable QB. Jake Plummer was our best attempt and even he was VERY flawed. I loved Jake the Snake. But he made too many bad decisions that cost us the AFC championship game.

The Bears are 4-4. We can only hope for a complete collapse of a Jay Cutler team so that we can get a high draft choice and grab a good QB. However that won't be enough...

13-3 was still an achievable record coming into this game. And I predicted that the Broncos would have 2 turnovers and would win the game 27-13. The thing I didnt expect was Orton's inability to accuratly pass the ball under pressure and give away 3 picks. I also expected at least a couple trys down field to at least spread the defense out a bit vertically. If we can get an 11-5 record at the end of this season and Orton continues to play poorly then and only then can we hope for a high draft pick at QB in the first round.

Why this way only? It is obvious McD still has faith in Orton and will continue to have that faith until Orton shows otherwise. But the bottom line is this. Orton has one thing going for him and one thing only. His intelligence. He is limited in every other area. Why does Tom Brady work? Because he is not limited in just his intelligence. He also can make accurate passes, stay poised in the pocket, and create the big play when the defense starts to flood the intermediate throws too much. This is proven by how we were able to beat NE. We beat them by taking away Randy Moss and then crushing the short and middle of the field. This is exactly what teams are doing to us except with us we dont have a chance because we cant even threaten to go vertical.

I will always bleed Orange and Blue but I think we need to get back to earth and understand what we said before the season started. No good QB with or without Jay Cutler IMO. Patch work old defense (overall has worked but is seemingly weak against the big play). Up and Down personnel decisions (Get rid of Kern for a washed up punter, Run Jay Cutler out of town for a QB that maybe above average in brains but below average in everything else: newsflash these kinda guys usually become coaches not players, sign 3 RBs only to draft one with the 1st pick, sign too many old guys on defense, obviouse waste of a first round pick on Alphonso Smith if you cant even count on him in Nickel situations that you have to bring in an old guy who has never even played the nickel and hasnt played football all year)

Is McD THE COACH? Yes. However he might end up suffering the same fate Mike Shanahan faced, poor personnel decisons yet superb coaching. Great coaching can get you 8-8 almost every year. But if you dont have the talent to perform on both sides of the ball then Denver could be facing another decade of mediocrity.

I love McD and have embraced him and all I can hope is for him to prove me 100% wrong. But it just seems too much of a coincidence that all our problems that we thought we had in the offseason are coming to life as soon as we have gotten exposed by two outside sources coming off a bye.

This is a Fan-Created Comment on MileHighReport.com. The opinion here is not necessarily shared by the editorial staff of MHR

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IMO - I think there's a 0% chance we'll draft a QB in next years draft

I wouldn’t get your hopes on it

by Bustafluff on Nov 9, 2009 11:10 PM MST reply actions 0 recs

besides great QB or mediocre QB....

what good are they when your offensive line totally sucks ass

by Bustafluff on Nov 9, 2009 11:44 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs

Really

A Bronco fan asking this? Maybe you should review tape of some of the O-lines Elway and Plummer dealt with. It is possible for qb’s to make plays behind poor offensive lines.

by AKfan on Nov 10, 2009 9:10 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

Offensive Line doesn't suck. Scheme doesn't fit it.

Of course teams are going to play overly aggressively against this team. They have no fear that Orton is accurate enough to beat them 15 yards down the field and it is also a way to blow up the sham of a power running game the Broncos are playing. Scrapping the Zone Blocking scheme and playing a dink and dink and dink and dink passing game really invite opposing defenses to penetrate the line ruthlessly.

by MTBroncoFan on Nov 10, 2009 10:10 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

A great one can win a Super Bowl

The Steelers line totally sucked last year. Ben was under pressure all the time and the running game was terrible. But they still won the Super Bowl.

But if it had been Tommy Maddox or Byron Leftwich back there all year, they wouldn’t have. You gotta have the QB.

by upabob on Nov 10, 2009 1:45 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs

Our OL

Is one of the strengths of our team. When the QB doesn’t release the ball or has terrible pocket presence it makes things a little harder to block opposing teams linemen.

Also, Harris is a Pro-Bowl Caliber Tackle. Having him out hurts.

by _Atwater27 on Nov 10, 2009 2:24 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs

I agree actually

Which is why I am scared we might be in for another decade of mediocrity. Hopefully we find someone in the late rounds who got missed.

by JTBroncos25 on Nov 9, 2009 11:19 PM MST reply actions 0 recs

Brandstater??

who knows, maybe that guy is the future?!?
But I still have faith in Orton….

by sjk7 on Nov 9, 2009 11:46 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs

To be perfectly honest...

I’ve got a man crush on Tom B. and by Tom B. I mean Tom Branstater of course! No discredit to Orton, he’s a good player and even if he’s not capable of taking us to the Superbowl and beyond he IS accomplishing one thing: Installing McDaniels system. Orton may not have the ability to cause the problems that a guy like Tom Brady does, obviously. But Orton is smart, and we DO have a winning record (when we supposedly shouldn’t). Whether he becomes OUR guy or not isn’t really the point. The point is for the Broncos to Win NOW, and Win CONSISTENTLY. If we just shove the first talented guy into the mess the first chance we get then we’ll have our whole offense in a bungle.

Those guys need a smart, capable leader right now who can keep them doing the right things, staying in the right places, and setting them up to execute the play. If Orton continues to decline in his execution (which other than the INT’s he had a GREAT first half, which we’ve been lacking all season) at least our offense won’t be running the ropes next year. They will give whoever we want to put behind the wheel a ferrari to drive that’s already been broken in.

Don’t get too ahead of yourself and hinge upon a single player’s action as the end of our beloved LaLa-Land. Life will go on, and we will be all the better for starting Orton the entire year, win or lose. Yes I hope he can win right away and we can give the MSM and the rest of the nay-sayers a deserved dropkick straight to the baby-maker… but I wouldn’t be upset if this season turns into a springboard for dynastical domination. Keep your eyes on the prize JT… the wins will come, be patient young padawan.

P.S. Back to Tom Brandstater. The guy seems just as intelligent and “on” as Orton, but with great coachability and some raw measurables and talent that can be purified and perfected. You can mark my words, unless Tom B retires, dies, or literally junk-punches McDaniels for no reason… this guy could be our future. Everyone saw how he made the moves he needed to make to get the guys he wanted. McDaniels wanted Branstater, we will not draft another QB in next years draft. Orton and Simms have proven they don’t need the spotlight and if it comes down to starting Tom next year, I don’t see either of them against staying on board as knowlegable backups and QB mentor/assistants.

I am not trying to high-jack your post… lol. I am just expression-deprived right now. So forgive me. Just don’t lose sight of the light at the end of the tunnel man. :D

ORANGE CRUSH! ... need I say more?

by USMCWall on Nov 9, 2009 11:50 PM MST reply actions 1 recs

Orton can become a franchise QB

First of all, “Franchise quarterbacks don’t miss.” Seriously? So I guess we need to ask Elway why he threw 226 interceptions in his career. ALL quarterbacks miss. If we can get a good running game going, and Orton has enough time, he typically doesn’t miss. Really, the only problem I see with him is the long ball, and if anyone can fix that problem, it’s McDaniels. You have to remember, Tom Brady was only a sixth round pick, but he’s smart enough to know the system. Give Orton a little bit of patience.

by Royal_Fan on Nov 10, 2009 12:47 AM MST reply actions 0 recs

yes..complimentary football

“If we can get a good running game going”

somewhere I think there was this guy by the last name of Davis that allowed Elway and the team to win superbowls.

by BroncoInExile on Nov 10, 2009 1:56 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

Orton is not complementary to a good running game.

He doesn’t scare safeties enough to make them back off. Even with outstanding targets like Marshall, Royal, and Stokely they aren’t scared.

Orton is not more than a gap filler. Bring on Branstater. Maybe he can manage to get the offense across mid-field more consistently. Can’t do worse.

by MTBroncoFan on Nov 10, 2009 10:13 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

I still have faith in Orton

But with the way our interior OL has been repeatedly destroyed the past two weeks, along with Moreno’s whiff block on the blitzing LB, I worry for Orton’s health right now.

Another worry is how will Hamilton handle Haynesworth next week? They may not have Portis, but I do not worry about the offense, it’s the H and H matchup. If Haynesworth crumbles Orton, how long will Simms last? Then Brandstater will have to stand behind that interior and get killed.

Make those miracles happen - Jon Keyworth

by IgorBStrange on Nov 10, 2009 1:28 AM MST reply actions 0 recs

status

I’m surprised that Alphonso Smith has been so invisible lately when he showed such promise early in the season. It can’t be that he isn’t developing, it’s got to be that he’s nursing an injury or something. But I’m not prepared to call him a disappointment yet.

The thing about Orton isn’t that he’s lacking in any particular area, it’s more that he hasn’t shown any ability to surpass the system. The good quarterbacks can extend a play, or make something out of nothing. You really need that to have a functional offense – the quarterback that if you take one thing away can beat you the other way. Orton is very effective within the system, but he can’t surpass it.

We also need better wide receivers. Stokley and Royal are redundant. We’ve got possession receivers galore that can play in front of the backs and get some yac, but we don’t have anyone that is perceived as a danger in getting behind the backs.

by tunesmith on Nov 10, 2009 1:43 AM MST reply actions 0 recs

I told you this would happen

Orton can’t get the ball down field, and everyone has finally figured that out. Sure I might throw a few interceptions too, but at least I brought the threat of a big play.

I don’t like where this is headed.

by Cutler's Ghost on Nov 10, 2009 6:05 AM MST reply actions 0 recs

haha

I put this loss on the coaches. Period. McDaniels didn’t have a great gameplan and it seemed to resemble an approach teams that don’t normally win do, “play not to lose”.

Last I checked though, that was the Super Bowl champs we were up against last night. We need a solid draft and a few FA pickups after this season for sure.

Say hello to my fast...

by dcrespo7 on Nov 10, 2009 7:02 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

Incomplete statement

Cutler did bring the threat of the big play (both good and bad). I did notice that he had a very familiar game on Sunday … great personal stats coupled with a loss. But at least you had the threat of more stats.

by Hank44 on Nov 10, 2009 8:57 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

Did we watch the same game last night?

Orton was crisp, clean release, great placement on the recievers, good zip when needed – when the line gave him time – and he did not require much. The Steelers were tee-ing off on the run game and bit into the play action just about every time. The steelers were also all over the screen game. We could not run the ball, we could not screen pass. We did well when we used the intermediate passes. I don’t have the ability to record the games so someone with that ability please confirm or correct – but I do not recall seeing recievers down field – not even as a decoy or to set up for blocks for the underneith guy. I saw a lot to three step drops to recievers at or near the line on 3 rd and 10 – WTF, we are playing one of the best tackling teams in the leauge and we expect the beast to break tackles for 10 yards!!! This lose falls squarely on the shoulders of McDaniels. His game plan was predictable even if the formations were not – steelers soon figured out that the formations were irrelevent so long as you made the tackle. Once they figured that out they were free to play Steelers Football.

by Flunkie on Nov 10, 2009 7:25 AM MST reply actions 0 recs

BS

Maybe on 5 yard passes he was crisp, but not good for much else. Was very inaccurate downfield except when hitting Steelers. Yes the Steelers were getting pressure, but mainly they were taking away passing lanes very effectively for quick drops. They exposed themselves deep a bit to take away shorter passes knowing that Orton couldn’t and wouldn’t take advantage of them. Get used to it, teams with good coverage skills are going to be very tough for the Broncos & Orton to have success against.

by MTBroncoFan on Nov 10, 2009 10:17 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

You will get your wish!

You will be proven 100% wrong by McDaniels.

"He can take his'n n beat your'n, or he can take your'n n beat his'n." Florida A&M Coach Jake Gaither on Alabama Coach Paul "Bear" Bryant.

by turnerstoe on Nov 10, 2009 8:18 AM MST reply actions 0 recs

How about turning the phrase around?

I am beginning to hate the tern “franchise quarterback”. I think I like “quarterback of the franchise” better. The first one places the emphasis on one player while the second reminds us that this is a team. Even John Elway could only carry a team so far without a running game. It was amazing how far he did carry them. It is also amazing how things got better last night for the Steelers after a couple of bursts from the running backs. Orton does not appear to have the mobility of some other quarterbacks but he is more than capable of leading this team and leading them effectively. Right now Orton is my “quarterback of the franchise”.

by Hank44 on Nov 10, 2009 8:52 AM MST reply actions 0 recs

I guess mediocity isn't that bad.

Orton should be able to eek out a couple more wins and get to 8-8 or 9-7. Could be worse.

by Cutler's Ghost on Nov 10, 2009 9:09 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

Yeah

I could be a Bear Fan!

"He can take his'n n beat your'n, or he can take your'n n beat his'n." Florida A&M Coach Jake Gaither on Alabama Coach Paul "Bear" Bryant.

by turnerstoe on Nov 10, 2009 9:19 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

"a couple more wins?" "8-8 or 9-7"

2 against KC, one against oakland, 1 with Redskins. Those are the “Gimmes” we really should win. I sincerely doubt we lose all the others, but even if that happened it is 10-6 in a year we are shifting both offense and defensive schemes. Methinks you are a bit of a glass half empty sort of guy.
But, looking belatedly at your handle, I’d guess instead that you have a fixed viewpoint to support.

by idahobronc on Nov 10, 2009 10:34 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

methinks he's saying 8-8 or 9-7 because he is cutler's ghost and those are the records that Mr. Cutler is used to.

I think he’s pulling your chain……… get it??? Cuz he’s a ghost………..like from a christmas story………with the chians…………….

ahhhh, I ruined it. Sorry folks.

If Taylor Swift were to try and tackle me, I'd let her.

by kentuckybronco on Nov 10, 2009 10:44 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

God, am I gullible sometimes.

by idahobronc on Nov 10, 2009 11:48 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

It happens to the best of us.

If Taylor Swift were to try and tackle me, I'd let her.

by kentuckybronco on Nov 10, 2009 11:54 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

Ignoring facts doesn't change them

As your moniker implies, you came to this with a preconception that has colored everything you’ve seen and said since then. Even with the poor overall performance by the Broncos yesterday, Orton’s numbers are far from mediocre. I missed you on the thread following TJ and my breakdown of his real numbers. Where were you?

“I told you this would happen.” What, that’s we’d be 6-2? We both know that you didn’t – please stick to facts.
“Orton can’t get the ball downfield” Odd. He did just fine on that remarkable TD pass to Scheffler, for example. The truth is that he’s thrown as many long balls accurately this season as your preferred QB. In addition to not throwing anywhere near the level of INTs, he also doesn’t fumble without even being hit. Cutler leads the league in that stat among active QBs. Why not be fully honest and say so?

Actually, we were spared this kind of nonsense when Orton was a big part of winning the first 6 games, bring the Broncos from behind 4 times in those 6 wins. But you seem to do the easy thing and forget all but that which you ‘predicted’. Will you come around to admit when you’re wrong, too? Seems that you were nowhere to be found during the last few wins of the first 6 games. It’s amazing how folks suddenly consider themselves experts when the team has a couple of bad games, claiming what they ‘predicted’. Will you also disappear again when the Broncos win? Your performance to date suggests it to be true.

Moreno/Buckhalter in '09

by Emmett Smith on Nov 10, 2009 1:26 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs

I told you we would lose this game, said it yesterday

we got exposed against B-More, and Pittsburgh just picked up where they left off. Great speeches and fist pumping will only take you so far, at some point you need talent. I’m sorry we haven’t spoken more often, I’ll try and change that moving forward. Just trying to be realistic.

How are you doing Emmet? It was good seeing you at your golf tourney. I’ll have to take you up on that offer for dance lessons next time I see you.

Take care,

Cut

by Cutler's Ghost on Nov 10, 2009 2:56 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs

What's this "we" business?

That would imply that you are a Bronco Fan, which you obviously are not! Do you have a mouse in your pocket? No, you are a Fan of Boy Blunder. Why not go over to WCG where you can worship at the feet of your living man god. Thanks for Orton & the picks. See ya, wouldn’t wanna be ya.

"He can take his'n n beat your'n, or he can take your'n n beat his'n." Florida A&M Coach Jake Gaither on Alabama Coach Paul "Bear" Bryant.

by turnerstoe on Nov 10, 2009 6:29 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs

Let me clarify on the "dont miss" thing

Great point Royal_Fan. I more meant in critical situations even when the pocket is collapsing a good franchise QB doesnt panic and doesnt send the ball sailing over his receivers head. If anything he throws it low if he is gunna miss so no one else can catch it. Those INTs were just panic stricken throws. The guy always looks rattled when the pocket collapses. I hate to say but thats gunna happen against the Steelers no matter what. He was crisp on his timing routes I agree but when we needed a play under pressure he could not come through at all. I like Tom B. too so maybe thatll end up happening someday.

by JTBroncos25 on Nov 10, 2009 9:15 AM MST reply actions 0 recs

Have I mentioned how much I hate the term "franchise QB"????

I barely even wanted to read this post just after reading the title……..

If Taylor Swift were to try and tackle me, I'd let her.

by kentuckybronco on Nov 10, 2009 9:27 AM MST reply actions 1 recs

I did give it a chance, though.

I’ll say this. Kyle Orton is a franchise QB for the broncos. He is a QB on a franchise. Enough said. lol

If Taylor Swift were to try and tackle me, I'd let her.

by kentuckybronco on Nov 10, 2009 10:33 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

You can argue until you all are blue in the face and it won't change one bit.

The fact is, is this system and scheme takes longer than 7 months to learn because it is very intricate to understand. Throwing the long ball at this time is not in the cards people and get it out of your heads for crying out loud. Orton’s arm is fine and those throws will come, just not yet. This whole thing about changing from zone blocking to power blocking has limited our ability to run effectively and it will do so until they all get on board with the system. No need to panic, we will be fine.

by bfree2bronc on Nov 10, 2009 10:01 AM MST reply actions 0 recs

+1

The system is still being learned, no doubt. But the offensive line really doesn’t suit the system and I have doubts that Orton fits the system either. I think Orton’s a stop-gap much in the way that Plummer turned out to be one.

Orton’s arm is fine, but his deep accuracy is very suspect.

I predicted before the season started that Denver’s line would be much weaker than anticipated. It was built for a different scheme and a different offensive philosophy. The Zone Blocking scheme used opponents aggression against them making athletic and not necessarily huge o-lineman a great fit. This offensive scheme will require a bigger and more physical offensive line ala’ Bill Parcells. Defensive lineman are pretty much free to ravage this offensive line at the snap with little penalty for doing so. Its not like a running back is going to cut-back and gain yardage through the hole they’ve just vacated by pushing the guard up the field 5 yards!

by MTBroncoFan on Nov 10, 2009 10:25 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

+

Agreed work in progress and agreed Orton is a stop-gap. Clearly the management is not comfortable anointing Orton as the long-term guy. Orton is the perfect fit for a year or two of starting and then transition to the perfect back-up qb. A guy that can come in and win but does not have the huge ceiling that causes a never ending qb controversy. Hopefully Brandstater is developing nicely and they can re-up Orton to a very reasonable contract this offseason. The offseason they need to add size on both lines.
As far as this season goes the playoffs are still a very real possibility. Find a new punter and get back to the winning ways.

by AKfan on Nov 10, 2009 10:43 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

Orton is here to stay

and McDaniels knows better than all of us- guaranteed. You can’t lose faith after 2 games against very tough opponents. Get behind your team!

DEAL WITH IT!

MARK IT ZERO!!!!
Dude, this is a league game, this determines who enters the next round robin. Am I wrong? Am I wrong?
You mark that frame an 8, and you're entering a world of pain.

by waltersobchakbronco on Nov 10, 2009 10:50 AM MST reply actions 0 recs

??

Does McD have some secret handshake contract with Orton? Orton may be here to stay, or he may not. Clearly Zanders and McD are not rushing out to break the bank to lock him up long-term. They are doing the prudent thing and watching him play for an entire season before inking him. Is Orton the kind of qb that is going to put the team in position to compete for the AFC title year after year? Jury is out on that but signs pointing to unlikely. The more likely reality is Orton is the kind of qb that can put the team in position to compete if surrounded by 10 studs on offense and a stout defense. The time to DEAL WITH IT, will be when they sign him on the dotted line long-term for starter money. All we have to deal with currently is that Orton is the qb for 2009 so we should support him this year.

by AKfan on Nov 10, 2009 11:14 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

Thanks Walter for your insight

But you’re out of your element.

by Cutler's Ghost on Nov 10, 2009 2:58 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs

lol, where's the dude??

If Taylor Swift were to try and tackle me, I'd let her.

by kentuckybronco on Nov 10, 2009 3:10 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs

Wow!

I sincerely hope that some of you “fair weather friends” don’t break a leg jumping off the bandwagon. Our QB is not the problem! A QB will often get picked when there is no threat of a running game. The best improvement would be to revert to the zone blocking scheme and the only running back on the roster (that I am aware of), Payton Hillis, that has a background running in a ZB scheme.

When we can get a running game going, Orton will be just fine. I actually got pretty nervous in the first half, even with all of Orton’s completions, knowing that the running game was not working.

Go Broncos!

" Life is what happens while you're making other plans "

by hairybear on Nov 10, 2009 1:30 PM MST reply actions 0 recs

Didn't Georgia run a ZB scheme???

I thought thats one of the reasons why the Moreno pickup made people so excited. He has great vision and the ZB scheme suits him.

If Taylor Swift were to try and tackle me, I'd let her.

by kentuckybronco on Nov 10, 2009 1:35 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs

I don't follow the college game, KB

I’m sure that you are correct.

" Life is what happens while you're making other plans "

by hairybear on Nov 10, 2009 5:08 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs

So

You are saying the coach is the problem? You do realize you (and others) are asking for McD to go back to Shanny’s offense. Not saying I dont agree with you, the current scheme is not working but there is little chance it will be abandoned. For this year it looks like the players will have to adjust to the scheme and not the other way around.

by AKfan on Nov 10, 2009 2:46 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs

Would you like to read my post again, AK?

Nowhere did I say or infer that our coach is the problem! I am simply stating that when you cannot run the ball, your passes will be picked much more often.

Our running game last year was excellent with zone blocking, primarily because we had a smaller athletic OL. We still do. That was not just Shanahan’s offense; many teams use it. You can “adjust”, but you can’t make our OL bigger and stronger.

We’re all a bit tender after last nights game, but we should all be on the same team, not reading things into one another’s posts.

Go Broncos!

" Life is what happens while you're making other plans "

by hairybear on Nov 10, 2009 5:28 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs

Sorry about reading things into your posts

You said, “Our QB, is not the problem!” Then you said they should change the blocking scheme back to Shanny’s zone blocking scheme as the ‘best improvement’. Help me then, who is responsible for going away from the zone blocking scheme that is, in your eyes the problem with the offense. Who is responsible for making the change you are requesting? Sorry for my incorrect inference that you were blaming the coach but please answer the previous 2 questions so I can better understand your point.

by AKfan on Nov 11, 2009 9:42 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

AK, you're beginning to make my a- - tired!

You said:

Then you said they should change the blocking scheme back to Shanny’s zone blocking scheme as the ‘best improvement’.

I said:

The best improvement would be to revert to the zone blocking scheme and the only running back on the roster (that I am aware of), Payton Hillis, that has a background running in a ZB scheme.

1. The Broncos coaching staff have gone away from the ZB scheme.

2. The Broncos coaching staff would be responsible for making a change to the ZB scheme.

You are obviously attempting to misconstrue my words or have me place blame on the coaching staff. It is obvious that what we are doing isn’t working, with the personnel that we have on the OL.

FINIS

" Life is what happens while you're making other plans "

by hairybear on Nov 11, 2009 12:40 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs