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New Broncos Mock Draft


I'm projecting another trade with this one, another trade with New England since they have the most firepower to move up in the first round (three second round picks) and we would be foolish to stay in the top ten as we are currently projected.  There's no way Suh is falling to us and there is no way we can trade up for him and salvage the draft.  We're not one Ndamukong Suh away from a Super Bowl, though we might just stumble upon it this year anyway :D

 

**Projected Trade:  Broncos trade pick nine in round one for picks 21, round two pick 20, and round five pick 25**

In my mock, Joe Haden fell to the ninth pick and I think the Pats would love to pick him up for their secondary.  If not him, I could see them going for Derrick Morgan or Dez Bryant.  I know it's not customary for them to trade up, but they also probably do not have the roster space for four more picks in the first two rounds.  They are going to need to deal some picks, and whether the go for veterans or rookies, I think this is a very possible trade.

 

Round one:  Brandon Spikes, LB, Florida  6'3" 252

I know Spikes had some anger issues earlier this season, but this guy really is a proven leader on the field. He is an instinctive player with the perfect size (6'3" 252 lbs.) and ideal speed to play the position in the 3-4 scheme.

Spikes would give the Broncos—provided they can re-sign Elvis Dumervil—the best young core of linebackers in the NFL with Dumervil, D.J. Williams, Robert Ayers, and Wesley Woodyard.

He is arguably the most productive linebacker, statistically speaking, in this draft, though his stock has taken a small hit due to the amount of talent possessed by this draft class. Denver would be wise to trade down and hope for an elite defender like Spikes to fall into their laps as the eventual replacement for Andra Davis.

Round Two:  Javier Arenas, CB/RS, Alabama   5'8" 195

This would be the steal of the draft in my opinion. I believe Arenas to be the most versatile player in the entire draft, and if the Broncos could get him in the second round, it would be absolute robbery.

Arenas is probably the best return man in the nation, as well as an All-SEC performer at defensive back. His talents will go unnoticed as we near closer to draft day due to his lack of elite speed and short stature.

Make no mistake about it—this kid can play.

Arenas is a ball—hawking cornerback who also puts pressure on the quarterback out of the nickel package. He would be a much welcome addition to the Broncos who clearly value his type—versatile, smart, and able to contribute to special teams.

 

Round Two:  Colt McCoy, QB, Texas  6'3" 215

I know many Bronco fans are not in favor of drafting a quarterback, especially early, but if McCoy falls to this point in the draft, the Broncos would be foolish to pass on him.

McCoy is one of the winningest and most productive collegiate quarterbacks of all time. He is accurate, smart, and capable on the run.

He is the perfect fit for Josh McDaniels' system, and he has more raw talent than any other quarterback on Denver's roster.

For some reason his draft stock is plummeting, and the Broncos would be wise to take advantage. This kid is an outstanding leader who could learn behind Kyle Orton for a year or more if needed.

Round Three:  Adrian Clayborn, DL, Iowa  6'3" 285

As much as it pains me to say this, it would make sense for junior sensation Adrian Clayborn to bolt from Iowa City for the NFL next season. If he waited another year, his stock would drop immensely because of his age (would be a redshirt senior) and there is always the risk of being less productive or getting injured.

Clayborn, like many players from Iowa, is a very underrated prospect. There is a chance that if he tests well, he could go well higher than the third round.

Clayborn is a very versatile defensive lineman. He can play inside or outside in a 4—3; he has the athleticism to play five technique for the 3—4 or even stand up if asked to.

He is having his most productive collegiate season and is quietly one of the better defensive linemen in the nation.

 

Round Four:  Mike Johnson, OL, Alabama  6'6" 305

This is another guy who has a lot of versatility, which is attractive to the Broncos' regime. Johnson has been a stalwart on the Alabama offensive line and he is known for his prowess against the run.

The Broncos would love to pick him up in the fourth round, though some scouts feel he could go higher. Ideally, Johnson would be the heir apparent at center while Seth Olsen, a fourth round pick in 2009, would take over at left guard, giving the Broncos a great group of young offensive linemen.

 

Round Five:  Dexter McCluster, RB/WR, Ole Miss  5'7" 175

How many times have the Broncos been burned by Darren Sproles over the last couple of years?

Now, they have the opportunity to pick up their own version.

Ole Miss' Dexter McCluster is a very versatile player. He is being considered at both running back and wide receiver, with the potential to be a deadly kick or punt return man as well.

He has elite speed, but his stature has caused scouts to shy away. At only 5'7" and 170 pounds, he is not the most imposing physical specimen, but he is a weapon nonetheless.

His stock is on the rise, and by my next mock draft he could be projected as a third-round pick.

 

Round Six:  Anthony Moeaki, TE, Iowa  6'4" 250

As an Iowa fan, this pick might be a little bit of wishful thinking, but this kid is an underrated prospect who can play. Again, notice the theme of versatility.

Moeaki can catch, block, and has good vision with the football in his hands. The Broncos might look to him in the draft if Tony Scheffler leaves via free agency.

Iowa coach Kirk Ferentz calls Moeaki "the best tight end I've ever coached," which is pretty lofty praise considering Dallas Clark once played in Iowa City.

Moeaki has been injured frequently in his time at Iowa, and that could cause him to free fall on draft day. Some team could be getting a steal, and the Broncos could be that team.

 

Round Seven:  Zoltan Mesko, P, Michigan  6'5" 232

I would love for the Broncos to be able to get Iowa punter Ryan Donahue in next year's draft, but Mesko is a similar prospect with a booming foot who would be good value in the seventh round.

Mitch Berger has improved since his horrible start with the Broncos, but he is obviously not the long-term answer at the position.

This is a Fan-Created Comment on MileHighReport.com. The opinion here is not necessarily shared by the editorial staff of MHR

6 recs  |  Comment 83 comments |

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I actually like this.

I’m a little iffy on Colt McCoy, but I agree with you. If he drops that far in round two, we might take him. I still am not totally sold on taking a QB that high. I was thinking may third round or later on a QB, if at all. I’m not going to nitpick, at this point in the season, though. A lot can change between now and draft day.

I think the rest of your draft is pretty reasonable. I’m satisfied.

If Taylor Swift were to try and tackle me, I'd let her.
Girl, you don't need to be a 10, as long as you have a good smile and smell like bacon.

by kentuckybronco on Dec 10, 2009 2:51 PM MST reply actions  

Thanks

I know some aren’t high on him or any QB in general, but I can’t see us passing on him if he falls that far.

by Sayre Bedinger on Dec 10, 2009 2:57 PM MST up reply actions  

That's understandable.

Even if we didn’t want him that bad and thought Tom B was the man, we could still trade that pick to a team that really did want Colt McCoy. However, at the same time, if they passed on him before, they might not want him at our pick either. So, I don’t know.

If Taylor Swift were to try and tackle me, I'd let her.
Girl, you don't need to be a 10, as long as you have a good smile and smell like bacon.

by kentuckybronco on Dec 10, 2009 4:49 PM MST up reply actions  

Absolutely

I’m dead set against a QB in the first, but if McCoy falls that far, hecka yes we pick him up.

His draft stock has fallen this year, but with him winning the Davey O’Brien award, plus the Maxwell award, plus being arguably a frontrunner for the Heisman, and finally playing in the national title game… I SERIOUSLY doubt he lasts until the second round, even late second, even with the bumper crop of QB talent this year.

"I only know as much about myself as my mind can work out under its current conditions. And its current conditions are not good." -- Zaphod Beeblebrox

by Sharpe as a Tack on Dec 11, 2009 10:18 AM MST up reply actions  

Colt McCoy

If he fell that far and McX passed on him, I’d think they’re pretty high on Brandstater.

Now where did that Kool-Aid vendor go?

by pubkeeper on Dec 10, 2009 2:56 PM MST reply actions  

If he fell that far and they passed

I’d think they were pretty high on something else…

by Sayre Bedinger on Dec 10, 2009 2:56 PM MST up reply actions   1 recs

Faith in the QB’s we already have, perhaps?

by aLuffabo on Dec 11, 2009 12:12 AM MST up reply actions  

As an Iowa alum

I love Clayborn and Moeki, however, Moeki is so fragile, I don’t think he’ll be able to stay healthy to make it in the NFL.

I don’t want us to draft any FL defensive players, i’m still burned on Jarvis Moss/Crowder

I’d rather just keep our #12 pick and grab Rolando McClain and have him in the backfield w/ DJ

by Bustafluff on Dec 10, 2009 2:57 PM MST reply actions  

What?

I know Moeaki is fragile, but he is a great player. In the sixth round, he has optimum value.

Crowder was from Texas, and Moss was a rare case.

We are projected the 9th pick at the moment, not the 12th. I’d like McClain though. He is a beast and has great size. I think Spikes is almost just as good an NFL prospect though.

by Sayre Bedinger on Dec 10, 2009 2:59 PM MST up reply actions  

I wouldn't say "almost just as good"

but I would say “will be a great NFL player”. For the record, I would say about McClain “will be a perennial Pro-Bowler”. Both are great options to have, and if it comes down to it I would rather have Spikes and two extra picks than McClain and our current ration.

"I only know as much about myself as my mind can work out under its current conditions. And its current conditions are not good." -- Zaphod Beeblebrox

by Sharpe as a Tack on Dec 11, 2009 10:21 AM MST up reply actions  

FL DL

It was Moss and Marcus Thomas who were from FL.

Now where did that Kool-Aid vendor go?

by pubkeeper on Dec 10, 2009 3:03 PM MST up reply actions  

oh right

curse my laziness for not double checking

by Bustafluff on Dec 10, 2009 3:08 PM MST up reply actions  

And Thomas is doing pretty darn good for us so far

The fact that he was one of the very few to survive the McDaniels Purge speaks volumes.

"I only know as much about myself as my mind can work out under its current conditions. And its current conditions are not good." -- Zaphod Beeblebrox

by Sharpe as a Tack on Dec 11, 2009 10:19 AM MST up reply actions  

good thoughts, sayre!

This is a good mock that’ I’d be mostly happy with.

I had three concerns about the draft…

1) I don’t like the McCoy pick, simply because I think that Kyle Orton is a perfectly good QB and he continues to get better the more time he spends in the system. However, If McD were to decide he wanted a different QB, I’d trust his judgement.

2) I question the Arenas pick because, looking years down the line, if alphonso smith and arenas are our starting CB’s then he match up with guys that are 5’8" and 5’9" against the SD recieving corp (which will be there for a while), all of whom are huge (6’3"-6’5"). I like arenas, just not for the broncos considering which players our biggest divisional opponent has.

3) because of these 2nd round picks, we don’t address the interior of our OL until round 4, and we only draft one OL (an area where we could probably use some upgrades in depth)

my other comment is not really about your mock draft, but on something you said in the intro. you declared,

There’s no way Suh is falling to us and there is no way we can trade up for him and salvage the draft. We’re not one Ndamukong Suh away from a Super Bowl, though we might just stumble upon it this year anyway

you are correct in saying that drafting Suh may not be the best move toward winning a super bowl in 2011, but Suh is the type of players that dynasties are built around. while a Suh pick would thin out this year’s (and perhaps slightly next year’s) draft a little, I think that it gives us a better chance to win in the long run.

That said, I’m not sure that we wouldn’t be able to salvage the draft after trading up for him anyway. (You were definitely right about one thing, he won’t fall out of the top 5.) We would remain competitive while having a thinner, but well-designed draft if good personel decisions are made (addressing OL either through the draft or FA). we don’t have many glaring areas of need on this year’s team, so we might be able to handle pick like this one (slightly a luxury pick).

by bailey disciple on Dec 10, 2009 3:07 PM MST reply actions  

also

I do really like a Spikes/McClain pick as a good second option after Suh, but he’d still be my first choice. I’m totally man-crushing this guy right now.

Imagine him and Doom rushing the same QB — who do you double??

by bailey disciple on Dec 10, 2009 3:11 PM MST up reply actions  

McCoy

The thing about picking McCoy with a 2nd rounder is that would alleviate a lot of the “he’s tabbed to start right now” talk. I agree with your take on Orton and think the way they sit right now, the Broncos could use a 2nd rounder on McCoy and let him learn behind Orton for 2 years.

Now where did that Kool-Aid vendor go?

by pubkeeper on Dec 10, 2009 3:19 PM MST up reply actions  

i hear you on the impact of taking him in the 2nd round vs. the first.

i think if we do take a QB it definitely can’t be in the first.

However, (I didn’t really make this clear above) I don’t think we need a new QB at all (except except for a backup in FA (or in the draft round 4-5 or later). I’m perfectly happy with Kyle Orton as the Broncos’ QB of the future.

by bailey disciple on Dec 10, 2009 3:31 PM MST up reply actions  

as in

I’m happy with Orton as the starter well beyond 2 years (unless something changes to negatively effect his performance)

by bailey disciple on Dec 10, 2009 3:33 PM MST up reply actions  

I actually agree

I, too, would rather they didn’t take a QB. I’d rather they see good enough progress with Tommy B that they feel confident with him in 3 years taking over.

Now where did that Kool-Aid vendor go?

by pubkeeper on Dec 11, 2009 9:26 AM MST up reply actions  

Thanks b d

1. See my response to Emmett Smith below in regards to Colt McCoy. I think he is a perfect fit for our offense and would be great value late in the second round.

2. Arenas projects, to me as a nickel corner at the next level, and that is where he would be most effective. He has five sacks this season out of the nickel, and he is a relentless tackler in addition to being a genius when the ball is in his hands. I like his prospects as a return specialist even though we have Royal. We need someone to return punts and kicks so Royal can be fresh for offense.

3. People continue to forget about Seth Olsen, which is troubling to me. He is the heir apparent at LG, and we can get quality starting offensive linemen in the third, fourth, or fifth rounds. Our starting guards next year, likely are going to be Olsen and Kuper, fourth and fifth round picks respectively. Johnson is great value in the fourth.

I would like to see us go after the Pouncey brothers if they declare, but that’s not for certain.

by Sayre Bedinger on Dec 10, 2009 4:40 PM MST up reply actions  

I think the deal with Olsen is this… We have had trouble at LG this season and have shuffled players, if Olsen is the “heir apparent” and a reason we don’t have to address that position in the draft or elsewhere, why isn’t he playing? I am not trying to bicker by any means, I’m just chiming in with a reason why people may not be excited about the guy. We are probably spoiled by Mr. Amazing (Clady) and the job he did last year in starting as a rookie and dominating. My thoughts are that, within this little community we have here, we have partially written off and forgotten about Olsen because if he has any promise, why isn’t he playing? Again, these aren’t necessarily my thoughts, I hope that McD still thinks Olsen will be the man in the future and is just using a vet to fill in until he is ready by playing Hochstein.

by aLuffabo on Dec 11, 2009 12:20 AM MST up reply actions  

Why isn't he playing?

Why isn’t Alphonso Smith playing? Why isn’t Robert Smith playing a lot? Why isn’t Kenny McKinley playing? Why isn’t Richard Quinn playing? Why isn’t Darcel McBath playing more?

Do you see the pattern? Other than Knowshon Moreno, there are few if any rookies currently making significant contributions on our team. I know people are going to say to me, “Well why aren’t you willing to wait for Brandstater then?” but you have to wait for rookies to develop. Olsen will play.

by Sayre Bedinger on Dec 11, 2009 12:54 PM MST up reply actions  

At all those positions, there are entrenched and/or established starting options

Smith: Bailey/Goodman; Ayers: Dumervil/Haggan; McKinley: Marshall/Royal/Gaffney/Stokley; Quinn: Scheffler/Graham; McBath: Hill/Dawkins.

And at LG we have Olsen. He’s behind Hochstein, who had to win his own starting spot from Hamilton, who is now benched. Arguably, he’s 3rd string, which is why we view him as a question mark and an unknown at best. It’s encouraging that he has lasted this long on the team, but with our unsettled situation at C/G, it really makes one wonder why he hasn’t been pressed into service at all this season. Re: the other rookies, all have seen some time in one form or another. Olson has been a perpetual healthy inactive.

I don’t think he’s useless or won’t contribute eventually. I just think that I absolutely understand where those who question his future impact are coming from.

"I only know as much about myself as my mind can work out under its current conditions. And its current conditions are not good." -- Zaphod Beeblebrox

by Sharpe as a Tack on Dec 11, 2009 3:13 PM MST up reply actions  

Again, I wasn’t necessarily saying those were my thoughts, just stating that it is probably the primary reason people aren’t thinking too highly or even forgetting about Olsen at this point. So, I think it’s a little unreasoning to be “troubled” by us fans who aren’t pumped or sold on the idea that he will be our future starting LG. Let me ask you this, what about Olsen have you heard or seen that makes you think he is capable of being a solid, contributing starter? I just ask because you seem to have strong feelings for the guy, but we have no real sampling to go off of, from what I’ve seen…

Yes, I see the “pattern” just fine. But like Sharpe pointed out, Olsen plays a position that has been our biggest achilles heel this season, he isn’t a rookie sitting behind anyone who is performing exceptionally well.

by aLuffabo on Dec 11, 2009 3:45 PM MST up reply actions  

Good thoughts

1. I’m not high on McCoy as a prospect per se (like you’re high on Suh), but if he is available at that slot, we really should take him just because McCoy is a little bit like KO Mark 2 and now we have good depth at (relative) value, plus the leverage to trade if we need to. Plus, there’s that pesky ankle of Kyle’s…

2. Arenas… he’s a pretty polarizing figure. I’m with you: one “undersized” corner is fine, but two is setting us up for failure. I project him as a nickel corner only, which still leaves us with the need to replace Bailey/Goodman either in FA or 2011 draft. For me, only get Arenas if you can also get Haden or Lindley.

3. I’m fine not addressing the O-line until then, given our previous picks. I’m especially fine with it being Mike Johnson. He can play anywhere on the interior (not quick enough for OT, though) and is a massive blocker who pulls well.

I simply don’t think that 1) trading into top 5 is ever worth it; and 2) we are as well off as you claim. We need depth at CB badly, we need a solid stud to go opposite DJ badly, we need interior line help, we need a speed WR, and we really need quality depth at DE/DG. Finally, you ignore the effect Suh’s cap portion would have. In a draft this deep at nearly every position, trading away multiple picks is near-suicide. Absolutely not.

"I only know as much about myself as my mind can work out under its current conditions. And its current conditions are not good." -- Zaphod Beeblebrox

by Sharpe as a Tack on Dec 11, 2009 10:30 AM MST up reply actions  

while i see the need to eventually find replacements for bailey, goodman and andra davis,

This doesn’t necessarily need to happen in the 2011 draft. goodman and bailey are not young but show no signs of slowing down and likely have a couple of good years left. I would look at davis the same way. also, wouldn’t it be nice to develop woodyard a bit and see if that takes?

Do we need a speed WR, or is that a luxury pick? I think we have one of the best WR corps in the league and we don’t need any help there.

I agree we need interior Oline help, as I mentioned above. I think we can address that with what picks are left after a potential suh trade, or through FA depending on who’s available. we would likely be able to retain a 3rd or 4th round pick. hell, we might even land Mike Johnson like sayre says.

As for DE, I would disagree entirely. I think we have some pretty decent depth at the position (peterson, mcbean, holliday) and what we lack is a true every down DE — which is exactly what suh would be for us.

in terms of the roster issues that you’ve listed, they are all very minor and we are still an extremely competitive team with minimal upgrades to these positions. I’m not advocating building this way, but I would suggest that stopgaps can be found in FA for the positions you’re mentioning. It is worth waiting one year to fix these minor issues because of the positive effect that drafting suh would have on our franchise for the next decade.

I guess my real point is that acquiring suh would be a better long term option and that while we are not without weaknesses, we would not be mortgaging a season of broncos football (today) to do that.

by bailey disciple on Dec 12, 2009 11:21 AM MST up reply actions  

Interesting thoughts

Thanks for taking the time to put this one together. Obviously we don’t agree on McCoy – I don’t see him as a good option, so I don’t really care what round he’s in but I understand that some folks are very high on him. I’m with bd here – if he’s not a good option, what round he’s in makes no difference to me.

A question on Moeaki – we have Marquez Branson on the PS. Here’s some of his college material courtesy of the Broncos media office:

Marquez Branson (6-foot-3, 248 pounds) is a rookie tight end from the University of Central Arkansas who joined the Broncos as a college free agent on April 27, 2009… Played 23 career games in two seasons at Central Arkansas after transferring from East Mississippi Community College… Totaled 82 career receptions for 1,236 yards (15.1 avg.) with 18 touchdowns at Central Arkansas… Finished his collegiate career ranked fifth in Central Arkansas history with 18 receiving touchdowns… Earned All-Southland Conference recognition as a senior in 2008 after posting 45 catches for 737 yards (16.4 avg.) with 11 touchdowns in 12 games. He was the second leading receiver on the team…

I realize that Moeaki is a little bigger, but only slightly. If Scheffler leaves and we need more of a receiving TE, would Branson not be a good alternative? Branson is considerably faster, with a timed 40 of 4.55 as well as some in the 4.7 range (Moeaki ran between 4.7 and 4.94 so far). Just a thought

Moreno/Buckhalter in '09

by Doc Bear on Dec 10, 2009 4:02 PM MST reply actions  

Thanks for the comment

First off, why is Colt McCoy not a good option? That comment rubs me the wrong way a little bit, not because you disagree with my pick though, which is totally fine.

The Patriots/Broncos quarterbacks are products of the system, there’s no doubt about it. Drew Bledsoe had the Pats in the playoffs, and when he went down, Tom Brady was plugged in and led them to three Super Bowls. When Brady went down, Cassel came in and led them to 11 victories as well as 4000 yards passing. Now, Kyle Orton is putting together the most efficient season of his career, though his numbers are fairly pedestrian.

It’s not a coincidence that any of this happened. Look at the effect the loss of McDaniels has had on Brady and Cassel. Pats are 7-5, and probably worse than they were last year. Brady is not having a great season, probably one of the worst statistically in his career. Cassel has been a bust for KC and was benched in a losing effort to the Broncos.

My point is this: The quarterback is not asked to be the focal point of this offense, but they need to make plays. They are as good as the players around them, and as Brady/Cassel prove, the position can be a revolving door if needed. Now, I know you are going to point to Tom Brandstater and say that he’s our QB of the future. I would love that more than anything, but Colt McCoy’s value in the second round is too good to pass up, and he would be the best player on our board undoubtedly.

McCoy has more raw talent than any of Brady, Cassel, Orton, or any other McD quarterback. He is a natural leader, accurate, and he can make plays with his feet. He is smart, knows how to distribute the ball, and has decent arm strength. He is not a gadget player, he is a pure pocket passer who happens to have great speed. Now, you’re telling me that with a year of coaching and dissecting film that this kid’s potential doesn’t excite you in the least? I know Orton has done “fine” and I know he has been decent for us, but how could we pass on a potential playmaker like McCoy whose skill set is tailor made for our offense? It doesn’t seem logical to me.

I think when toying with the notion of drafting a QB, too often people think that the QB has to be the focal point of the offense. We wouldn’t have to ask McCoy to be a Matt Stafford or JaMarcus Russell. We have an offensive line which is as good as any in the NFL. We have skill players as good as any team in the NFL. Yet our offense still ranks in the bottom half of the league. Is that not curious to anyone else? We would ask McCoy to do exactly what Orton does, except McCoy has more natural talent and is a much more gifted athlete.

As for Moeaki, he is a far better prospect than Branson, though I was impressed by Branson’s YouTube highlight. He is a great receiving TE, but he seems like kind of a wuss with the ball in his hands. He goes down really easily and is a liability in the blocking area. Moeaki does everything well. He may be slower, but he still has great vision with the ball. I have had the privilege of watching him for five years now, and I think he is going to be a phenomenal addition to an NFL roster.

by Sayre Bedinger on Dec 10, 2009 4:33 PM MST up reply actions  

Willing to talk about this?
Now, I know you are going to point to Tom Brandstater and say that he’s our QB of the future. I would love that more than anything, but Colt McCoy’s value in the second round is too good to pass up, and he would be the best player on our board undoubtedly.

Actually, no. Brandstater may well be, but that’s not why I don’t want McCoy

McCoy has more raw talent than any of Brady, Cassel, Orton, or any other McD quarterback

I think that this is hitting to the center of the issue. I consider Brady to be one of the two best QBs in the NFL. Colt McCoy is a college QB who may – may – become very good, but he’s not close to being on Brady’s level at this point. Brady’s dealing with changes in his motion due to the adhesions from the surgery — a fact that I mentioned would happen before the season, as it’s normal for this procedure — but that doesn’t take anything away from his skills. He’s incredibly bright, and is also one of the most driven and hardworking men in the game. The only QB I think is on his level is Manning, so claiming that McCoy is at that level is obviously your opinion, but that’s a hard one for me to support.

By the way, your comments regarding Bledsoe are leaving out a lot of the story. Actually, Belichick became convinced that Bledsoe was a poor fit for his team. The fact that Bledsoe also became injured was a complication to replacing him as much as an opportunity. I’d recommend Patriot Reign, The Blueprint and Moving the Chains as good books that go into this in more detail if you’re ever interested.

But I have to say this – making the statement that McCoy is more talented than Brady is a pretty wild one to me. What we know about him is that he’s a good college QB who has earned his accolades, but nothing more than that. He’s never played a down of NFL football, and many of the QBs who come out into the NFL then fail. since we don’t have a crystal ball, I think this is pretty hard to substantiate. Claiming that he’s more talented than Brady, who’s won multiple SBs and who QB’d the more prolific offense in the history of the NFL? There isn’t any evidence of that at this time. I don’t agree at all, but hey, that’s why we have forums and discussions.

McCoy doesn’t have Brady’s arm strength. He doesn’t have the accuracy that Brady has manifested at this level of competition. He doesn’t have Brady’s innate and intuitive grasp of the game, either. I see him as a product of the Texas game, and a very good one, but beyond that, I don’t think that we have enough common ground to talk much further. It’s not that I’m offended or anything – it’s just that your statement seems so far removed from the way that I see this as to not leave anything to really talk about.

Moreno/Buckhalter in '09

by Doc Bear on Dec 10, 2009 10:27 PM MST up reply actions   1 recs

Gosh, Emmett

For a guy that likes to champion himself as the local beacon of civil minded debate, you sure know how to go right to insulting anybody that has the temerity to view things differently than you. Your response is belittling, patronizing and your dismissive conclusion is just a fancy version of name calling. Thats, IMO, of course.

It is hardly a reach to suggest that Colt McCoy has more innate talent at this stage of his development than Tom Brady had at the same. By all accounts, McCoy has shown all the intangibles that make Tom Brady great, and he combines them with clearly superior athleticism, including, at the very least, equal arm strength. Imagining that the same guy that helped make Brady great could also make McCoy great is hardly a reach. While McCoy has been a perennial Heisman Trophy candidate throughout his entire Big 12 career, Tom Brady had to share time with the legendary Brian Griese at this stage of his Michigan career. Colt McCoy is a far better pro prospect than Tom Brady ever was.

I’m not a big fan of drafting a QB early, but I respect Sayer’s logic and passion.

The selfish, they're all standing in line
Faithing and hoping to buy themselves time
Me, I figure as each breath goes by
I only own my mind-- Pearl Jam, "I am Mine"

by PredominantlyOrange on Dec 11, 2009 9:51 AM MST up reply actions  

Well, I'll disagree with you on your assessment of Emmett's response

It seemed befuddled and dumbfounded, perhaps a little condescending due to the above, but certainly not belittling, patronizing, or dismissive. You might think it’s just semantics, but boiling his response down to “just a fancy version of name-calling” ignores the salient point: name calling is a logical fallacy (ad hominem) precisely because it uses no logic. Emmett at least made an attempt to back up his strongly held opinion with facts. You might accuse him of factual manipulation, but you can’t really accuse him of name-calling.

That being said, I think that McCoy is intriguing enough given all you’ve said and I’ve seen that if he is available in the second we would become a better overall team by picking him up. I still think that comparing him to Brady (in 2009) is a stretch that strains credulity: I wouldn’t have said that about Peyton Manning his rookie year. If we’re comparing Brady as a rookie to McCoy as a rookie, then perhaps we have a discussion. But 2009 Brady vs. 2009 McCoy? No contest, and honestly I can understand why Emmett seemed so taken aback as to lose some composure over that one.

"I only know as much about myself as my mind can work out under its current conditions. And its current conditions are not good." -- Zaphod Beeblebrox

by Sharpe as a Tack on Dec 11, 2009 10:41 AM MST up reply actions  

Did I read it wrong?

I see him talking about raw talent, not about whether Colt McCoy is an HoF QB right off the shelf.

The selfish, they're all standing in line
Faithing and hoping to buy themselves time
Me, I figure as each breath goes by
I only own my mind-- Pearl Jam, "I am Mine"

by PredominantlyOrange on Dec 11, 2009 2:13 PM MST up reply actions  

It wasn't intended to patronize anyone

I simply don’t agree with the assessment of McCoy. I respect differing oppinions, but look at the outcome – I disagree on McCoy and I’m ‘name-calling’.

No, I’m not. I don’t think that the argument holds water and so I bow out of it. Sorry you were offended, but I think that it’s a weak argument. As I said – at that point, there’s not point in rehashing. Your response speaks to why. People are very attached to their feelings on college QBs.

Moreno/Buckhalter in '09

by Doc Bear on Dec 11, 2009 10:47 AM MST up reply actions  

I'm ambivalent about Colt McCoy or any other QB in this draft.

Actually, thats not entirely true. I’m not a big Bradford fan.

Anyway, I should have just minded my business. I’m sure Sayre can handle himself.

It was just an observation— nothing personal.

The selfish, they're all standing in line
Faithing and hoping to buy themselves time
Me, I figure as each breath goes by
I only own my mind-- Pearl Jam, "I am Mine"

by PredominantlyOrange on Dec 11, 2009 2:16 PM MST up reply actions  

You've missed the boat completely

And you’ve bent my words to a point where now I seem like an idiot who thinks Colt McCoy is better than Tom Brady. No, that’s certainly not the case. Let me clarify: Colt McCoy is more talented than Tom Brady. Period. You can’t deny it. From an athletic standpoint and as a professional quarterback prospect, McCoy is a better overall prospect. He has better measurables all around. There’s a reason Brady was a sixth round draft pick.

That being said, of course Brady is more proven than McCoy. I’d be a fool to not recognize that, and that’s what your response has made me out to be. I’m sorry if you read my post wrong, but please read this one carefully and note that. I’m not trying to be sarcastic, just want you to get the point.

I respect that you don’t like McCoy for some reason, and I accept it. I’m not going to try to convince you to believe in McCoy. I do.

If McCoy and Brady were in the same draft, not knowing what you know now other than what they accomplished in college and at their pre-draft activities, who would you choose? If you answered Brady, then you are simply being arrogant and unwilling to accept my argument.

NOW, think of how a more talented prospect like McCoy could flourish in McDaniels’ system. He clearly is willing to be coached, and he clearly has the “it” factor that coaches look for. He is a winner. He is experienced. He is accurate. He has above average arm strength. He has escape ability. Like I said, he’s coachable. He has a lot of experience out of the shotgun.

There are so many reasons to like him for our system.

by Sayre Bedinger on Dec 11, 2009 1:10 PM MST up reply actions  

I'm not goin to argue further, sayre
now I seem like an idiot who thinks Colt McCoy is better than Tom Brady. No, that’s certainly not the case. Let me clarify: Colt McCoy is more talented than Tom Brady. Period.

Ok. I don’t think so, you do. No one is an idiot – we just disagree.

Moreno/Buckhalter in '09

by Doc Bear on Dec 11, 2009 1:46 PM MST up reply actions  

Fair enough

We’re all entitled to our own opinions, and you’re certainly entitled to not argue about this. I happen to believe it to be good discussion and debate, and if you want to shy away from that for some reason, that’s fine with me.

by Sayre Bedinger on Dec 11, 2009 1:49 PM MST up reply actions  

sure, mccoy may have more apparent physical gifts that tom brady had as a pro prospect

there were a lot of guys who were believed to be more talented than brady at that stage in his career. bold phrase He went in the 6th round!!

brady has a more intuitive grasp of the game than any QB today (with the possible exceptions of peyton and brees) mccoy’s been good in college, but that doesn’t necessarily mean it will transfer to the pros. and brady is a HoF QB.

by bailey disciple on Dec 12, 2009 11:31 AM MST up reply actions  

Not looking at any of the draft boards,

who are the elite G/C’s coming out this year? If McDaniels is comfortable in what Orton will give us as far as our starter of the future then I would have to guess he will start building around him. If not the LB would be my next guess and McClain or Spikes would be a great addition. Good thoughts though.

by bfree2bronc on Dec 10, 2009 4:06 PM MST reply actions  

The Best Center

The best center prospect, Maurkice Pouncey of Florida, is a junior and has not yet declared or indicated either way. If he comes out, he would be an excellent option later in the first, and his brother Mike is almost as good a prospect as a G/C, probably more geared toward the second round though. Again, if Pouncey comes out, I would love to see him on the Broncos. He is a solid player. Nobody from this class jumps out at me, though I like Johnson, Idaho’s Mike Iupati, UMass G Vladimir Duccasse, Iowa OL Kyle Calloway, Matt Tennant, and some others.

by Sayre Bedinger on Dec 10, 2009 4:36 PM MST up reply actions  

Chris O'Dowd (USC), Michael Tennant (BC), Stephan Wisniewski (forgot), Eric Olson (ND)

Plus Iupati (Idaho), Asamoah (IL), and Johnson at G.

"I only know as much about myself as my mind can work out under its current conditions. And its current conditions are not good." -- Zaphod Beeblebrox

by Sharpe as a Tack on Dec 11, 2009 10:44 AM MST up reply actions  

Matt Tennant... sorry

"I only know as much about myself as my mind can work out under its current conditions. And its current conditions are not good." -- Zaphod Beeblebrox

by Sharpe as a Tack on Dec 11, 2009 10:44 AM MST up reply actions  

ND Guards

I’d also throw in Chris Stewart, ND, but people are probably growing tired of me ringing that bell.

Now where did that Kool-Aid vendor go?

by pubkeeper on Dec 11, 2009 10:55 AM MST up reply actions  

Rec'd it for quality Sayre

But I would love to see a D-lineman drafted higher. I watched Ayres get double teamed out of plays and I really want guys who will see that won’t happen.

by Fan in Exile on Dec 10, 2009 4:39 PM MST reply actions  

Trust me on Clayborn

I was talking to another draft analyst about him, and he thinks he could go first or second round. Clayborn is the best DE prospect in the draft IMO, and the most versatile by far. Then again, I also said Shonn Greene was the best RB prospect last year, and he got a bad draw when it comes to the team who drafted him. Clayborn is the best five technique prospect I can see, and I wouldn’t be surprised if he doesn’t fall to the third round at all.

He is outstanding in space, and gets into the backfield with ease. He is a relentless pass rusher. He is extremely athletic for his size, and a lot faster than he looks.

Clayborn on the right end would be an outstanding find for us, especially in round three.

by Sayre Bedinger on Dec 10, 2009 4:43 PM MST up reply actions  

ayers

has been playing mostly OLB — his future is at that position. (he’s not quite big enough to be a 5 technique DE)

also, cut the rookie some slack. he’ll get there… we’ve gotta have faith

by bailey disciple on Dec 10, 2009 5:24 PM MST up reply actions  

Ayers

is just fine, I pointed out the problem is our D-line not taking up enough blockers. At least some of time.

by Fan in Exile on Dec 10, 2009 7:56 PM MST up reply actions  

ah

excellent point, sorry to have missed it.

by bailey disciple on Dec 12, 2009 11:32 AM MST up reply actions  

Devil's Advocate

At first, the idea of Spikes or McClain appealed to me. But I’m wondering why you need two 3 down ILB’s. I guess in the nickel packages, Denver usually shows two ILB’s and often sub Woodyard for Davis. I’m one of the rare birds on this site that doesn’t think a whole lot of Woodyard outside of special teams, so I like that part of upgrading that position to a more complete package in one guy. Still, in obvious passing downs (dime packages) one of the ILB’s comes off in favor of either a CB or S. So in those situations— which aren’t rare— you’ve either got D.J. Williams or a premium pick off the field. I’m not sure such a premium pick needs to be spent on a player we already have, basically.

To me, it makes more sense to plan for the inevitable (and relatively soon, if you use history as a basis) decline of Goodman, Bailey, and Dawkins. While I’ve already stated my affection for trading back, picking up a pick, and targeting Mike Iupati, the second option that makes sense to me is secondary— either Haden, or if still available, Taylor Mays. I realize that the stock on Mays is declining some— and that many believe that we have a steep future in place— but one variable almost always in place for elite D’s is the presence of an intimidating thumper at S. Look at the impact Dawkins has already had here, that Polamalu has in Pittsburg, etc. Mays— with his tools and a little mentoring from the likes of Dawkins— has the potential to be one of those special, game plan altering S’s. As much as I like McBath and Bruton, I have my doubts that either will be more than pretty good.

The selfish, they're all standing in line
Faithing and hoping to buy themselves time
Me, I figure as each breath goes by
I only own my mind-- Pearl Jam, "I am Mine"

by PredominantlyOrange on Dec 10, 2009 4:42 PM MST reply actions  

You may have doubts

It’s still odd to assume the organization is going to give up on such high picks after one season. McBath and Bruton are, of now, the future at safety. One guy I would love to see us get is Myron Rolle, who will fall because of his year spent at Oxford. I would love to add him. I like Mays, and I think we could get him later in the first.

I like Iupati also. I would pick him up in the second if I knew for certain that Seth Olsen could make the transition to center, our only true weakness up front in terms of size.

I also would love to pick up Haden, and at first that’s what I projected. I will make another without trades and see if he falls again. My opinions change almost every day. I just love the draft, it’s like compiling a Christmas list. I love seeing it all on paper and imagining it. To me, the draft is as fun as the games, even a little less stressful.

Good comments here.

by Sayre Bedinger on Dec 10, 2009 4:48 PM MST up reply actions  

Its not so much doubts about either (McBath, Bruton)...

…but rather the idea that Mays can be a special, game changing type. Plus, there is no reason to be sure that Bruton’s special team prowess is going to translate to being a front-line safety. He was, after all, a fourth rounder.

The selfish, they're all standing in line
Faithing and hoping to buy themselves time
Me, I figure as each breath goes by
I only own my mind-- Pearl Jam, "I am Mine"

by PredominantlyOrange on Dec 10, 2009 4:52 PM MST up reply actions  

with this kind of thinking,

I would imagine you would have to be at least tickled by the possibility of landing Suh. thoughts?

(Man, I’m starting to sound like a broken record with the suh comments… maybe I should try to put all this together into a fanpost and get it out of my system…)

by bailey disciple on Dec 10, 2009 5:28 PM MST up reply actions  

To be honest...

…I’m still learning on how to spot the difference between a guy more suited to 4-3 tackle and a guy that can become a 5-tech. If he could make that transition, and the Broncos could do it without mortgaging too much, I’d be all for it. I really do believe that certain players should be viewed independent of need, because the difference between good and special shows up exponentially on the field. It has an effect on how other teams play you, prepare for you, etc.

The selfish, they're all standing in line
Faithing and hoping to buy themselves time
Me, I figure as each breath goes by
I only own my mind-- Pearl Jam, "I am Mine"

by PredominantlyOrange on Dec 10, 2009 6:08 PM MST up reply actions  

Quickness (speed) and initial burst (twitch)

are essential in a 5-tech. Plus, they are often taking on multiple inemen as well as being only part of a 3-man rush, so they must be able to stay with the play until it is finished and have good enough strength (or rushing moves) to threaten a double-team.

4-3 DTs can get away with being heavier, bigger, and slower. Strength is still a priority, but is not as important as a NT or 34DE

"I only know as much about myself as my mind can work out under its current conditions. And its current conditions are not good." -- Zaphod Beeblebrox

by Sharpe as a Tack on Dec 11, 2009 11:01 AM MST up reply actions  

From whence comes the idea that a high pick should be on the field the majority of the time?

on a rebuilding team, maybe. On a team like the 2010 Broncos who are likely to not have many glaring holes? No. We can afford to have DJ on the field in nickel or dime, then McClain in on running situations when he’s a rookie. Going forward, we have leverage to either release or trade DJ as need/production dictate (or, for that matter, have two stud ILBs on the field), and we have given the rookie time to learn. Sounds ideal to me.

I’m with you on planning for the Goodman/Bailey decline. Honestly, as much in favor of a trade down as I am, if Haden is available when we first pick… I would have a very tough decision. Mays is intriguing for us — arguably, he might be a VERY good fit. We are at least solid at S (if not set entirely, depending on how you view Bruton), and we might have some area of improvement possible at the SAM position. Mays projects more as a OLB at the NFL level anyway, which would essentially allow us to ignore S and OLB entirely for the next 3 years (assuming we resign Doom).

"I only know as much about myself as my mind can work out under its current conditions. And its current conditions are not good." -- Zaphod Beeblebrox

by Sharpe as a Tack on Dec 11, 2009 10:58 AM MST up reply actions  

good point

A better way of stating this is “..©ould be on the field a majority of the time..” if they weren’t behind a quality veteran. What I didn’t like about this so-called rule is that it locked teams into a bad practice. A few players are good enough or are at a position (e.g., RB or LB) that plays earlier but many of these every-down rookies play because they have to. And they learn in a baptism by fire. Grooming players through a lengthy apprenticeship is disallowed in the ‘must play every down’ dictum. There’s a difference between ’can’t play on passing downs’ and being used situationally early in your career. That distinction has been lost on kibitzers anxious to identify the busts.

no goats, no glory.

by Colinski on Dec 11, 2009 2:48 PM MST up reply actions  

I think they have glaring holes.

Right now, I certainly wouldn’t even be slightly disappointed with McClain or Spikes. However, I do think we have greater needs than ILB. While I understand the logic of financial flexibility and so forth, I guess I’m pretty high on D.J. It’s rare that you have a LB that can blitz inside effectively, and in the same game his speed is utilized to fall into coverage zones more associated with the FS. He’s an athletic, fast, hard hitting LB who is only going to improve with time in scheme. I wonder about his motor and consistency at times, but he’d be the last guy on this defense I’d worry about the flexibility to replace. Along with Doom, he’s the most talented player they have who is also sitting smack in the middle of his prime years.

As for glaring holes, even if this scheme is LB dependent right now for pass rush it doesn’t mean that having a front three guy that can consistently rush the passer wouldn’t be a huge improvement. That’s the main reason I’m intrigued by Corey Wootten— and I’d be wild about Dunlap if he didn’t have the character issues.

More so than anything, I think the key to this defense’s short term success is a more efficient and dynamic offense. I really thought that the defense played very well against the Ravens and Steelers until they wore down, which isn’t surprising for an undersized scheme oriented unit. The only flat out bad outing was against SD. The offense simply couldn’t help because they couldn’t run inside effectively, and allowed to much interior pressure and got inside our immobile QB’s face and inside his head. So why not focus on improving the offense to ‘protect’ the defense, in other words? That starts with shoring up the interior o-line, and adding speed at W0. That’s why I’m stuck on trading back 10 slots and nabbing up Iupati and then using the flexibility to draft a Jacoby Ford type player.

The selfish, they're all standing in line
Faithing and hoping to buy themselves time
Me, I figure as each breath goes by
I only own my mind-- Pearl Jam, "I am Mine"

by PredominantlyOrange on Dec 11, 2009 5:31 PM MST up reply actions  

This is alright,

But I would also like if we didn’t trade down, and got Rolando McClain. Also, the hight of our corners may be an issue in the future, with Arenas and Alphonso. Also don’t know about a TE pick, even if it is only in the 6th round. I am happy with Graham , Scheffler, and Quinn (who can replace Graham when he is gone). I think having McCluster would be cool though.

"Really, I'm a high-motor guy. Tough, hard-nosed, a hard runner, can make you miss at times. And just competitive. I love to play the game and I bring that energy to my team. So, we'll see how that goes." - Knowshon Moreno

Knowshon Moreno=ROY

by stedtfeld on Dec 10, 2009 5:55 PM MST reply actions  

we might trade Scheff

and honestly, I would be in favor of that move. A 6th round replacement isn’t a bad idea to fill that, nor is Marquez Branson on the PS (as Emmett pointed out).

"I only know as much about myself as my mind can work out under its current conditions. And its current conditions are not good." -- Zaphod Beeblebrox

by Sharpe as a Tack on Dec 11, 2009 11:09 AM MST up reply actions  

Does Mike Johnson have any experience at C?

My understanding is that he predominantly played LG at Alabama, while filling in at LT now and then. If he has no experience there, what is your basis for having him as the heir-apparent at C?

Personally, I am hoping we pick up either McClain or Haden in the 1st, go for a C and DE the 2nd and 3rd (either order). I am also sceptical about getting Arenas. Probably will be a good player, but I don’t like having too many short CBs (as bailey disciple mentioned previously).

by Timimus on Dec 10, 2009 6:37 PM MST reply actions  

No experience that I am aware of

But maybe we could shuffle him/Olson, or use the final year of Wiegmann’s contract to teach Johnson. It’s not a death sentence, to be sure.

Remember, Spencer Larsen never had any experience playing fullback either. And just ask Moreno how he’s doing.

"I only know as much about myself as my mind can work out under its current conditions. And its current conditions are not good." -- Zaphod Beeblebrox

by Sharpe as a Tack on Dec 11, 2009 11:08 AM MST up reply actions  

Geez, I thought you were kidding

about McCoy not going to until the second round, but a lot of expert draftnik-types don’t have him going until even the third. wow. i don’t see it. the kid should go high and i think he will. if not, ABSOLUTELY take him. yep. sold.

by oxmouth on Dec 10, 2009 11:57 PM MST reply actions  

Other places I've heard

NFLDraftScout has him raked as the 12th best prospect, which is odd.
ESPN has him rated as a high-mid second rounder
DraftCountdown has him as a high second rounder, maybe late first if someone wants him bad enough.

It’s all about the value one team places on him. As is cliche, it only takes one team to make him a top 20 pick, or a third round pick.

by Sayre Bedinger on Dec 11, 2009 1:15 PM MST up reply actions  

that's within the senior class

They disaggregate the classes but their projections state where (roughly) a prospect will go. Colt McCoy is projected as a 1-2 round (or cusp) pick, so they’re saying late 1st through early 2nd.

DraftTek has him at #12 on their Big Board, which is a ranking rather than a projected draft position. Their latest MOCK (from today) had him going at #20 to Jacksonville. Their rankings are still a little ‘un-formed,’ perhaps because they’re using sites that haven’t updated their rankings yet to account for this season’s results or the latest re-evaluations.

no goats, no glory.

by Colinski on Dec 11, 2009 3:10 PM MST up reply actions  

C + G

We need to pick up an excellent center and guard in the draft first and fore most.

It all starts up front and if we have invested heavily in KM, CB and PH then we need to make sure we have the guys up front to get it done.

by AlleyCat. on Dec 11, 2009 10:10 AM MST reply actions  

I’m also going to be controversial and say i’m not sold on DJ Williams at his current price point either.

by AlleyCat. on Dec 11, 2009 10:11 AM MST up reply actions  

It's an interesting thought

and one I’m not entirely adverse to. I like him — a lot — and MIKE seems to be his best fit. The combination of McClain/Williams is tantalizing indeed.

But, if we have McClain we now have leverage on DJ and can make a financial decision as well as a football decision about his future.

"I only know as much about myself as my mind can work out under its current conditions. And its current conditions are not good." -- Zaphod Beeblebrox

by Sharpe as a Tack on Dec 11, 2009 11:04 AM MST up reply actions  

Well...

agree with caveats. Interior O-line is very very important. That being said, Mike Johnson is quite a prospect and would more than adequately fullfil that bill.

Saying “first and foremost” is dangerous, to me. It backs you into a corner and doesn’t allow you to pick the best football players. It also is sliding dangerously close to saying we must use our first pick (wherever that may be) on an interior lineman, something I am adamantly against as a rule of thumb.

"I only know as much about myself as my mind can work out under its current conditions. And its current conditions are not good." -- Zaphod Beeblebrox

by Sharpe as a Tack on Dec 11, 2009 11:06 AM MST up reply actions  

People keep saying that

And I would agree, but find me a good center prospect that is for sure declaring for this draft. I can’t find one worthy of the top three rounds other than Maurkice Pouncey and Mike Pouncey from Florida, who are juniors and not guaranteed to leave early.

by Sayre Bedinger on Dec 11, 2009 1:16 PM MST up reply actions  

I would take Tennant as a fringe 2/3 pick

3-year starter, finalist for the Rimington Award, team captain.

He’s got good size and is a G/C hybrid possibility, thus taking up two (likely) areas of need with one pick.

"I only know as much about myself as my mind can work out under its current conditions. And its current conditions are not good." -- Zaphod Beeblebrox

by Sharpe as a Tack on Dec 11, 2009 3:24 PM MST up reply actions  

don't disagree

If the talent isn’t there then i agree you don’t pick a C or G.
However, i don’t see value in sinking money into prospects we might not need just because it might be a “sexy” pick.
Please note i’m not arguing with your picks – they just aren’t the way i’d go from a needs perspective.
I accept though that you probably know more about the players available than i do (college football is hard to get in the UK).

Based on the lack of a top C/G:-

Going back in the draft to pick up a nice ILB makes a lot of sense if we can get excellent value there.

I’d be more tempted to trade for a good C certainly thank take a flyer in the draft (if that is the consensus on talent depth).

I suppose by first and foremost i mean that is the need i see denver having (maybe not something we can pick up in the draft) and it might go against the discussion point (in terms of topic).

O and Rec’d

by AlleyCat. on Dec 12, 2009 2:22 AM MST up reply actions  

REC THIS

Hey, everyone, you should rec this to keep it visible. This is great discussion/argument that should be kept going.

Now where did that Kool-Aid vendor go?

by pubkeeper on Dec 11, 2009 11:01 AM MST reply actions  

Good mock!

I like the trade, especially if we get Spikes out of it. I like the value pick in McCoy a lot.

I am not at all as sold on Arenas as you are. We need another coverage corner to provide depth behind Goodman and Bailey, and that’s not Arenas. This means we will need to address this slot in the draft either late (who?) or next year (3 consecutive years with high picks at CB — that’s poor drafting) or pay big bucks for a FA (cap issues). I’m fine with a tandem pick of Arenas/Haden or Arenas/Lindley, but not Arenas by himself.

Plus, with Dexter McCluster, Arenas becomes expendable. McCluster can be our return man/Percy Harvin clone, and while Arenas is a decent CB he is not considered fringe first-round material due to that. Honestly don’t know much about Clayborn: you’re the Iowa fan, I’ll defer to you.

I seem to have swayed you somewhat on Mike Johnson! Or maybe I’m being presumptuous. Either way, I think he is the best way to address our interior O-line issues, provide great depth, and do it on the cheap. Nice pick.

Again on the TE: that’s a heart pick. He’s an interesting prospect, though.

The punter is a nice late pick, but did you see Chas Henry from Florida? That guy is amazing, and to me a better talent than Mesko. He likely won’t declare until 2011, but Berger is good enough that we can probably give him another year.

"I only know as much about myself as my mind can work out under its current conditions. And its current conditions are not good." -- Zaphod Beeblebrox

by Sharpe as a Tack on Dec 11, 2009 11:23 AM MST reply actions   1 recs

Arenas

4 career INTs (not really a ball hawk), 7.3 INT return yards avg. this year (not really supremely dangerous). He’s not the second coming of the Phonz.

Still, he’s a great blitzing nickel option: 42 solo tackles and 5 sacks in 2009.

"I only know as much about myself as my mind can work out under its current conditions. And its current conditions are not good." -- Zaphod Beeblebrox

by Sharpe as a Tack on Dec 11, 2009 11:27 AM MST up reply actions  

Thanks!

I really like Spikes, and have for a while. I think he could end up being a big steal on draft day that late in the first.

As for Arenas, I know his size is cause for concern, and I know he and Alphonso don’t exactly provide us with the most intimidating corners, but Arenas fits everything this team is looking for in a draft choice:

Toughness, Versatility, and Coachable

That’s why I like him so much, and that’s why I’ve grown to respect guys like Woodyard and Bruton who love to play special teams and do whatever it takes to help the team. Arenas can help your team in so many ways, and we would have two more drafts to replace Champ or Goodman, not to mention I think Champ will probably play with us for a while longer.

Don’t get me started on Clayborn! He is amazing man. I mean, watching him every week reminded me of Trevor Pryce in the glory days. I know Pryce was a first round pick, and Clayborn could be too. He is so versatile. He can play end in a 4-3 or 3-4, he could play inside in a 4-3, or he could stand up and rush the QB in a 3-4. Just like Pryce. Love the guy, I cant wait to see him in the bigs.

I think you have swayed me on MJ, he is a solid player, and would bring great value in the fourth round.

Moeaki is a great player, and I think again, the versatility aspect is what attracted me. And the fact that he goes to Iowa.

Chas Henry is a good prospect, though I haven’t seen him that much. UF’s offense rarely has to punt! Joking aside, if we’re waiting until 2011, Ryan Donahue from Iowa is going to be a phenomenal punter. His career long is 90. Obviously not in the air, but he hits it 60 yards on a pretty consistent basis.

by Sayre Bedinger on Dec 11, 2009 1:23 PM MST up reply actions  

By the way

I rec’d this comment because you were the only one to address all of my picks, which is my intention with these things. People tend to focus on one or two picks at the most in their comments.

by Sayre Bedinger on Dec 11, 2009 1:24 PM MST up reply actions  

What do you think about Kick Returners

LSU’s Trindon Holliday and Florida’s Brandon James?
James leads the Southeastern Conference in kickoff returns (34.5 yards per return). Holliday is fourth in the league in punt returns (8.5 yards per return) and is averaging 25.8 yards per kickoff return.

By the way, Nice job putting this together.

Character may be manifested in the great moments but it is made in the small ones -- Philip Brooks

by KaptainKirk on Dec 11, 2009 3:20 PM MST reply actions  

issues have probably been covered but Iowa fan and current student so I've seen every game that Clayborn/Moeaki have been in the lineup

Moeaki is very talented with a well rounded game, but he’s made of glass. He did a pretty good job of staying healthy this year which should get him in the door, but he wasn’t as productive as usual.

I really disagree on Clayborn coming out. He’s only 21 right now. (07/06/1988 DOB) so hitting his first pro camp at 23 wouldn’t be a big deal. I think he could more than make up for it returning for a senior season on a D that might only lose 2 starters and will return the whole DL if he stays. That said he is a beast. Really the only issue I ever saw with him was having some trouble chasing down and bringing down mobile QBs. He doesn’t seem to have a great top speed or closing burst to cover that last little bit on a QB that can make a credible escape effort, but that’s less of a concern in a pocket passer’s league like the NFL. He’s a excellent pass rusher, strong against the run and a fantastic special teamer.

I hope he doesn’t come out early (for selfish reasons since I want Iowa’s D to be even better next year, then Clayborn to be drafted by Indy to fill Raheem Brock’s role since his contract will be up with him on the wrong side of 30).

Luck is probability taken personally, clutch is probability attributed to individuals.

It's shocking how much can slip your perception

Even your eyes lie

by shake n bake on Dec 11, 2009 8:02 PM MST reply actions  

these are all cool and all

but someone should do a mock potential broncos free agents thingy.

so far, this team’s been built heavily through free agency; dawkins, hill, goodman, etc. will that trend continue with a potential uncapped salary structure?

we have several needs, and guard seems like a pressing one. any RT/LG (really versatile) types out there that could let us have a rotating o-line with polumbus, hochstein and backup harris next year?

by RockyMountainHigh on Dec 12, 2009 12:38 AM MST reply actions  

Mock Draft Passion

It is clear that this topic inspires a great deal of passion! Here we are deep in a playoff push with a huge game this weekend, and the mock draft post generates as much or more discussion than any recent post I have seen. I am just as interested in the draft as the next fan and see the draft as somewhat of “Bronco Christmas” with all the anticipation of new toys for our team. I also feel it is much too early to get hung up on creating a perfect mock draft as there will likely be many changes in player ratings over the next few months. It should make for many interesting posts as the combine and private team workouts happen.

I love the options at ILB that many of you have discussed in detail, but I am leaning towards a CB, namely Joe Hayden if he drops to us at the 8-12th pick. The NFL has developed some amazing quick strike offensive weapons in the last few years (Colts, Pats, Saints, Chargers). The passing game talent in SD should be top drawer for years to come and our age at Corner is a concern. While I continue to think (hope) that Smith will become a strong #2 CB, I feel we need more depth and Hayden seems to be a great prospect.

I look forward to many hours of interesting reading mock draft posts, but am also really pumped up about the Colts game this weekend!

by LAbroncfan on Dec 12, 2009 12:53 PM MST reply actions  

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