3rd/4th & Short -- Is It As Bad As It Might Seem?
In jpage78's post "It had to be said" a comment subthread was started that talked about why the Broncos keep running between the tackles on 3rd & 4th and short, since that type of play has proven to be markedly unsuccessful. This started me wondering how often McDaniels has called a between the tackles run on 3rd or 4th and short. So, I went to nfl.com, pulled up the Game Book for each of our 13 games and looked at the play-by-play to see how often the Broncos have found themselves in 3rd/4th and short and what play was called. The results might surprise you.
More after the jump.
1)12 (30%) of the 40 attempts were passes.
2)22 (55%) of them were runs.
3)6 (15%) had penalties called on them.
4)Denver converted 21 (53%) of the 40 attempts.
5)6 of the 12 pass attempts (50%) were converted.
6)14 of the 22 run attempts (64%) were converted.
7)1 defensive penalty gave Denver a first down.
8)5 offensive penalties forced the Broncos into 3rd or 4th and long.
Of the 12 Pass Attempts:
1)8 went short right; 3 resulted in 1st downs.
2)1 went short over the middle, and not only was converted but resulted in a TD.
3)3 went short left; 2 resulted in 1st downs.
Of the 22 Run Attempts:
1)1 went around the right end and resulted in a first down.
2)4 went to the right tackle; 3 resulted in first downs and 1 of those resulted in a TD.
3)4 went to the right guard; 3 resulted in first downs.
4)6 went up the middle; 2 resulted in first downs.
5)3 went to the left guard; 2 resulted in first downs.
6)2 went to the left tackle; both resulted in first downs.
7)2 went around the left end; 1 resulted in a first down.
So, of the 22 runs attempted on 3rd or 4th and short, 19 were between the tackles, and 12 (or 63%) resulted in first downs.
For those who are interested, the data above was drawn from the following descriptions of the plays (you might want to read on if you're interested in who did what in short yardage situations).
@Cincinnati
1)2nd Qtr 3-2-Den28 (5:24) Shotgun Orton pass incomplete to Royal short right
2)3rd Qtr 3-2-Den44 (4:28) Orton pass incomplete to Hillis short right
3)3rd Qtr 4-2-Den44 (4:23) False start penalty
Cleveland
1)1st Qtr 3-2-Cle2 (8:07) Orton pass short left to Scheffler for 2 yards, touchdown
2)2nd Qtr 3-1-Den16 (2:05) Moreno right tackle for 1 yard
3)4th Qtr 3-2-Cle43 (4:06) Jordan left guard for 4 yards
@Oak
1)1st Qtr 3-1-Oak1 (6:02) Hillis up middle for no gain
2)1st Qtr 4-1-Oak1 (5:16) Jordan up the middle for no gain
3)1st Qtr 3-1-Oak14 (3:34) Moreno right guard for 9 yards
4)1st Qtr 3-2-Oak2 (2:11) Orton pass to Marshall for 2 yards, touchdown
5)2nd Qtr 3-1-Oak36 (4:22) Moreno right tackle for 1 yard
6)3rd Qtr 3-1-Den39 (2:22) Moreno right guard for 4 yards
7)4th Qtr 3-1-Oak4 (12:41) Moreno left end for -2 yards
Dallas
1)3rd Qtr 3-1-Den44 (3:18) Moreno left guard for 5 yards
2)3rd Qtr 3-1-Dal30 (0:42) Moreno right guard for no gain
3)3rd Qtr 4-1-Dal30 (0:03) Moreno left guard for no gain
New England
1)1st Qtr 3-2-Den28 (2:57) Orton pass to Marshall short middle for 1 yard
2)2nd Qtr 3-2-Den 18 (8:23) Orton pass to Royal short left for 10 yards
3)3rd Qtr 3-1-NE6 (8:08) Moreno left guard for no gain
4)OT 3-1-NE48 (12:10) Orton pass to Royal short right for 8 yards
@San Diego
1)2nd Qtr 3-2-SD25 (10:31) Shotgun Moreno left tackle for 6 yards
2)3rd Qtr 3-1-SD46 (13:03) Illegal shift penalty on offense
3)4th Qtr 3-1-SD47 (9:51) Moreno up the middle for 1 yard
@Baltimore
1)2nd Qtr 3-1-Bal49 (1:26) Buckhalter right end for 5 yards
2)3rd Qtr 3-1-Bal6 (10:51) Orton incomplete pass short middle to Graham
3)3rd Qtr 4-1-Bal6 (10:44) Defensive Offside Penalty
Pittsburgh
1)2nd Qtr 3-2-Den31 (13:40) Orton pass short right to Royal for 11 yards
2)2nd Qtr 3-1-Den25 (2:00) Orton pass short middle to Marshall for 18 yards
@Washington
1)2nd Qtr 3-1-Was12 (0:51) Moreno right guard for 2 yards
2)3rd Qtr 3-2-Den47 (10:13) Simms pass short right to Marshall for 5 yards
San Diego
1)3rd Qtr 3-1-Den45 (12:58) Moreno left tackle for 36 yards
2)4th Qtr 3-2-Den28 (3:39) Orton pass incomplete short right to Gaffney
3)4th Qtr 4-2-Den28 (3:33) Orton pass incomplete short right to Gaffney
New York Giants
1)2nd Qtr 3-1-NYG1 (7:21) Moreno right tackle for 1 yard, touchdown
2)4th Qtr 3-1-NYG11 (6:31) Buckhalter left end for 2 yards
@Kansas City
1)4th Qtr 3-1-Den14 (4:36) False Start Penalty
@Indianapolis
1)1st Qtr 3-2-Den19 (8:18) Buckhalter up middle for -2 yards
2)2nd Qtr 3-1-Ind45 (1:03) Moreno right tackle for no gain
3)2nd Qtr 4-1-Ind45 (0:43) Moreno up the middle for no gain
4)3rd Qtr 3-2-Den27 (13:51) Orton pass incomplete short right to Royal
5)3rd Qtr 3-1-Ind33 (10:10) Delay of Game penalty
6)3rd Qtr 3-1-Ind15 (5:03) False start penalty
7)4th Qtr 3-1-Ind20 (12:28) Orton up the middle for 2 yards
Overall, you can see that 3rd or 4th and short has not been a particularly common occurrence for the Broncos. They have averaged about 3 of that situation per game. Of the 40 plays in that category, 14 of them (35%) happened in two games (Oakland and Indianapolis), while the Kansas City game had only a single occurrence.
Hillis' number was called twice in short yardage situations. One resulted in an incomplete pass, the other in a no gain run. Moreno has been called upon 16 times. 15 of his runs were between the tackles. 10 of those runs resulted in first downs.
Just something to consider.
This is a Fan-Created Comment on MileHighReport.com. The opinion here is not necessarily shared by the editorial staff of MHR
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Um
What about Moreno’s 2nd TD in the Chiefs game? It was 4th and inches, and he went off the left end for the score.
"Really, I'm a high-motor guy. Tough, hard-nosed, a hard runner, can make you miss at times. And just competitive. I love to play the game and I bring that energy to my team. So, we'll see how that goes." - Knowshon Moreno
Knowshon Moreno=ROY
thanks for the catch, I somehow missed that one
I’ll try to remember to edit the post in the a.m. since it will alter the numbers just a tad (probably not much, but worth noting).
Again, thanks for catching the omission.
"Never give up! Never surrender!" Captain Peter Quincy Taggert in "Galaxy Quest"
"The best defense is a good offense. Or is it the other way around." Wolverine
Pray for the best, prepare for the worst, and know you will come down somewhere between the two.
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by Brian Shrout on Dec 13, 2009 11:48 PM MST up reply actions
Surprising how the numbers contradict what you perceive "with your own eyes", isn't it?
Perception is such a tricky little bugger.
truly
I think much of the “we can’t convert on 3rd/4th & short” is based on whatever game has just been played. After all, against the Colts, we went 1 for 6. Which if you think about it, 6 opportunities represent 15% of the short yardage situations we’ve had so far this year.
"Never give up! Never surrender!" Captain Peter Quincy Taggert in "Galaxy Quest"
"The best defense is a good offense. Or is it the other way around." Wolverine
Pray for the best, prepare for the worst, and know you will come down somewhere between the two.
Livin' in La La Land and Lovin' It
by Brian Shrout on Dec 13, 2009 11:50 PM MST up reply actions
I think you got it right, BShrout
It’s kind of a take off on “What have you done for me lately”——— it morphs into “What have you done to me lately’” when we lose. Not a perfect analogy, but I think close enough.
My worry is these numbers against GOOD teams....and they are not flash....I wonder what league average is for picking up 3rd and short. Thanks B great post!
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All I want is 53 Rod Smiths. Is that asking too much????
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Calijoefornia.
I'm trying to locate that data as you type LOL
"Never give up! Never surrender!" Captain Peter Quincy Taggert in "Galaxy Quest"
"The best defense is a good offense. Or is it the other way around." Wolverine
Pray for the best, prepare for the worst, and know you will come down somewhere between the two.
Livin' in La La Land and Lovin' It
by Brian Shrout on Dec 14, 2009 10:50 AM MST up reply actions
Football outsiders has it for their O-line stats
League average is 64% and we rank 11th. of course that hasn’t been updated since sunday. It also includes things like 1st and goal from the 1 so they aren’t strictly the same but they are close enough.
by Fan in Exile on Dec 14, 2009 11:01 AM MST up reply actions
thanks for that update
"Never give up! Never surrender!" Captain Peter Quincy Taggert in "Galaxy Quest"
"The best defense is a good offense. Or is it the other way around." Wolverine
Pray for the best, prepare for the worst, and know you will come down somewhere between the two.
Livin' in La La Land and Lovin' It
by Brian Shrout on Dec 14, 2009 11:55 AM MST up reply actions
good point idaho, but
i was thinking almost the opposite on the eye test. that is, sometimes you need to trust your eyes and not statistics. the fact that so many people—here, tv, radio, friends, family, etc— have brought up the “moreno up the middle” question indicates to me that maybe some different plays should’ve been mixed in on short yardage downs.
and yet
we did try a variety of plays:
we had 7 3rd/4th & short plays in the Indy game. 3 were up the middle. The only conversion on that play was when Orton ran for 2 yards. 2 plays were nullified by penalties before they ever had a chance to be run — so we don’t know what was called. The remaining 2 (right tackle and a short pass) also failed to convert.
I think the short yardage issue is bigger than simply McD calling lots of runs up the middle.
"Never give up! Never surrender!" Captain Peter Quincy Taggert in "Galaxy Quest"
"The best defense is a good offense. Or is it the other way around." Wolverine
Pray for the best, prepare for the worst, and know you will come down somewhere between the two.
Livin' in La La Land and Lovin' It
by Brian Shrout on Dec 14, 2009 3:29 PM MST up reply actions
i don't disagree
and i’m not saying mcdaniels is an idiot or anything. i just think that if “moreno up the middle” stuck out to me and a few thousand other folks, it probably was apparent to the colts defense as well. the problem probably wasn’t just the play calling—the o line HAS to do better on short yardage, as do the backs. i’m also not convinced that moreno even has the body to be the plow ahead for one or two yards kind of back.
very good points
and I hope I didn’t come across as hostile towards your remarks — which are all very valid IMHO. I think Moreno is much better when cutting off tackle than up the middle.
"Never give up! Never surrender!" Captain Peter Quincy Taggert in "Galaxy Quest"
"The best defense is a good offense. Or is it the other way around." Wolverine
Pray for the best, prepare for the worst, and know you will come down somewhere between the two.
Livin' in La La Land and Lovin' It
by Brian Shrout on Dec 14, 2009 7:02 PM MST up reply actions
no hostility taken, bshrout.
you’re one of the people i’m relatively familiar with at MHR, so i pretty much assume you’re not being a jerk based on what i’ve seen of your other posts. (tragically, when newbies are involved, i probably tend to default to the “jerk” conclusion. :-) )
but yeah, moreno is a much better cut guy. but did it seem like he kind of left his mojo at home yesterday? i mean, he seemed WAY unsure at times and even dan fouts mentioned something to that effect. maybe nerves?
it seemed like the entire team left their mojo at home
at least until mid-way through the 2nd quarter when we were already down by 21.
"Never give up! Never surrender!" Captain Peter Quincy Taggert in "Galaxy Quest"
"The best defense is a good offense. Or is it the other way around." Wolverine
Pray for the best, prepare for the worst, and know you will come down somewhere between the two.
Livin' in La La Land and Lovin' It
by Brian Shrout on Dec 14, 2009 10:51 PM MST up reply actions
Perhaps this could be viewed
as our team not having the belief they could really play with on a par with INDY, at least not until the fear of a humiliation made them mad. If so, (and this is all speculation), one could say the lesson learned the rest of the game may come in VERY handy later on….even this year.
that would definitely be a plus
Your observation about the team’s self-confidence also prompted me to think of the times that my student’s haven’t trusted me when I’ve told them that if they do x & y, z will occur. And then struggled because they’d do x but not y.
I wonder if part of what happened early in the Indy game was a similar thing happened with our players. McD told them if you do a & b, c will follow, and they didn’t have enough faith to fully embrace the plan.
Or maybe they just had a sucky day. LOL
"Never give up! Never surrender!" Captain Peter Quincy Taggert in "Galaxy Quest"
"The best defense is a good offense. Or is it the other way around." Wolverine
Pray for the best, prepare for the worst, and know you will come down somewhere between the two.
Livin' in La La Land and Lovin' It
by Brian Shrout on Dec 16, 2009 9:18 AM MST up reply actions
I generally try for a positive interpretation, if
all other things are equal. Your example of how your students respond seems like a universal human response. Maybe in retrospect (ie, after we win the SB this year) players will refer back to this game as that in which they learned exactly that lesson………….Well, a guy can dream.
Thanks for the research and post.
The Colts were playing the middle pretty well today…at least that is my perception.
These numbers don't include blocking technique
….so it can be misleading. Let me explain.
The Broncos have been scattershot this year with their blocking technique. With McD preferring the straight up man on man blocking from New England…while the line is essentially a zone blocking like (light, quick, use of leverage rather than brute force)…so taking this a bit further. Within the man on man scheme the holes are created by pushing the d line backward and holding the “gaps” between the guard and the center so the runner can find the holes. In zone blocking the brief cutback hole can appear anywhere along the line, but most often it appears between the tackle and the guard along the edges.
Last week vs Kansas City was primarily a zone blocking game. Both Buck and Moreno found holes around the edges, but also in the cutback alleyway between the center and most often the right guard.
To make a long story short my point (sorry for the scenic route there) is that running in short yardage has depended on the blocking scheme of the week. Against the Colts I saw the zone blocking used sparingly and man on man blocking used foremost. When this happens the line gets bulled over up the middle. And has all year. Moreno tends to excel in the zone scheme.
Also, Buckhalter takes the majority of the “bruising” yards and Moreno is often the beneficiary of Buck’s hard work. Moreno, when used normally can use his speed to change the pace of the game. Which is why not using Hillis during the game makes even less sense considering you had a fresh Hillis waiting.
by jpage78 on Dec 14, 2009 12:35 AM MST reply actions 2 recs
so some of Moreno's 3rd/4th and short
conversions could be chalked up to the blocking technique used that particular week. It’s not consistent. This week, up the middle (over and over and over) simply wasn’t working.
I'd love to see a fanpost about how well we run in different blocking teqniques
even if you dont got the stats, just how well we do when we man vs zone block.
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36% on 3rd down isn't all that bad, a little over 1/3 success.
A few more % and we would be pretty darn good. The reason so many people seem to notice it is it happens at unopportune time occasionally which makes it stick out like a sore thumb.
A few more %
More than a 63% success ratio in short yardage would have done the trick.
When all you need is two yards or less, 63% is a urine-impoverished effort.
In this case, I have to agree
since the Colts had 6 3rd or 4th down and 2 or less to go situations and converted all 6, while the Broncos 8 such opportunities but converted only 1 of them.
"Never give up! Never surrender!" Captain Peter Quincy Taggert in "Galaxy Quest"
"The best defense is a good offense. Or is it the other way around." Wolverine
Pray for the best, prepare for the worst, and know you will come down somewhere between the two.
Livin' in La La Land and Lovin' It
by Brian Shrout on Dec 14, 2009 7:57 AM MST up reply actions
What bothered me...
Was that the McDaniels kept calling a play that didn’t work.
Einstein said that the definition of insanity was doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.
I’m still hoping that McD’s playcalling effort was as much to set up the Colts for the playoffs as to win the game.
I’d also like to think the Coach is holding #22 in reserve to unleash on a surprised and bewildered defense in the playoffs. But I saw Hillis miss blocks when he was in as fullback, so trust might be a big issue there.
While I don't necessarily agree with the play-calling
If you look at the plays to right tackle and up the middle in the rest of the game (not including those discussed above), you find that
4 runs to right tackle for a total of 18 yards, or 4 yards per carry average, and
8 runs up the middle for 16 yards, or 2 yards per carry average.
McDaniels may have felt that in a short yardage situation, these plays would have a reasonable chance of converting. As it turned out, the execution was not what it should have been and the plays failed.
"Never give up! Never surrender!" Captain Peter Quincy Taggert in "Galaxy Quest"
"The best defense is a good offense. Or is it the other way around." Wolverine
Pray for the best, prepare for the worst, and know you will come down somewhere between the two.
Livin' in La La Land and Lovin' It
by Brian Shrout on Dec 14, 2009 8:09 AM MST up reply actions
The successful runs were when the D didn't know they were coming.
On those short yardage plays, everyone knew they were going to pound the middle. Some teams can do that, but the Broncos aren’t one of those.
very true
all I’m saying is that we pretty much failed no matter what we tried on 3rd/4th & short.
"Never give up! Never surrender!" Captain Peter Quincy Taggert in "Galaxy Quest"
"The best defense is a good offense. Or is it the other way around." Wolverine
Pray for the best, prepare for the worst, and know you will come down somewhere between the two.
Livin' in La La Land and Lovin' It
by Brian Shrout on Dec 14, 2009 7:02 PM MST up reply actions
So what you are saying
Is situational football was played and Indy rose to the occasion.
Character may be manifested in the great moments but it is made in the small ones -- Philip Brooks
Great Post B
-Richee
-"If you look for the bad in people expecting to find it, you surely will." - Abraham Lincoln
-Measure your performance against your best competitors and consider how you can use it to beat them the next time!
ty
"Never give up! Never surrender!" Captain Peter Quincy Taggert in "Galaxy Quest"
"The best defense is a good offense. Or is it the other way around." Wolverine
Pray for the best, prepare for the worst, and know you will come down somewhere between the two.
Livin' in La La Land and Lovin' It
by Brian Shrout on Dec 14, 2009 7:47 AM MST up reply actions
Excellent points on perspective. Thank you B.
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thanks
As idahobronc pointed out, we tend to filter our sense of what is happening throughout the year through the lens of the most recent game — which in this case was a short yardage disaster.
As with many things this year, I tend to believe that the situation is not nearly as bad as many folks think. Hence the reason that we are 8-5 at this point rather than 3-10 (which is where many thought we would be).
"Never give up! Never surrender!" Captain Peter Quincy Taggert in "Galaxy Quest"
"The best defense is a good offense. Or is it the other way around." Wolverine
Pray for the best, prepare for the worst, and know you will come down somewhere between the two.
Livin' in La La Land and Lovin' It
by Brian Shrout on Dec 14, 2009 8:11 AM MST up reply actions
Blocking execution...
WIth the assumption that Orton can count, if the run plays called on 3rd/4th down could not have been blocked effectively, he would have either check out of them or called a TO. Since neither of these happened, I chalk it up to blocking execution. I saw twice the lead blocker taking the wrong man, at least twice a backside LB was able to scrape through, and the playside guards were getting blown up somewhat consistently.
All this play calling doubt is a bunch of MMQBing, if we would have run outside and got stuffed (or even passed) we would have calls for running it up the middle. Bottom line, is at the snap, they had a hat for a hat accounted for, and need to execute, which they did not.
As for the people calling for Hillis, with Larsen sidelined, who was suppose to lead block for him? Also, if he was blocking better when he has been in over the last few weeks, he would be touching the ball more.
Thanks B and rec'd
levelheaded and honest. hope this info spreads around a bit.
"I just looked across the huddle to see the guys in the huddle with me: great offensive line, great talent at wide receiver, great tight ends, great running backs. If we execute and play the way that we should, it should be tough to stop us."
-K.O.
by Jay Fin Anderson on Dec 14, 2009 9:33 AM MST reply actions
Great post B. Rec'd. The eye test certainly doesn't always prove to be legitimate for some people, as you've proved.
Awesome job.
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To put it in perspective
FO ranks power success which is how well teams do in short yardage situations and they’ve got pretty much the same numbers as Bshrout, which ranks us 11th overall. That seems to be pretty good to me and not sky is falling territory.
Good post! I'm not necessarily concerned with the short yardage situations,
I’m just worried about our red zone offense. Two out of four attempts is not good enough to beat a team like the colts. That is one area I think we all would like to see our team do better in. No turnovers and no stalling inside the red zone. Oh, and making field goals couldn’t hurt either.
"When you put on that jersey, the name on the front is more important than the name on the back." - "Miracle".
"Winning means you're willing to go longer, work harder, and give more than anyone else." - Vince Lombardi.
I believe the delay of game penalty was on Knowshon.
After being tackled he chucked the ball down field. Foolish mistakes cost us the game. How many penalties incurred on the special teams? Way too many and they cost us valuable field position and points. We had our chances to win this game even though we were down 21-0 at one point. Our offenses inability to move the ball and score was the problem, not the defense.
could well be, though Orton got blamed for it. :)
"Never give up! Never surrender!" Captain Peter Quincy Taggert in "Galaxy Quest"
"The best defense is a good offense. Or is it the other way around." Wolverine
Pray for the best, prepare for the worst, and know you will come down somewhere between the two.
Livin' in La La Land and Lovin' It
by Brian Shrout on Dec 14, 2009 3:30 PM MST up reply actions
That's interest (on Orton) as the penalty was called so quickly,
what could have have done to cause it? The only thing I saw was Moreno tossing the ball up field after his 2-3 yd carry. Away from the ref’s. The analyst never replayed it and had no comment on it as I could see, after watching the game again this morning.
Gotta disagree with you on the offense/defense issue, though
It cannot all be laid at the feet of the offense.
After Indy’s first 4 drives, we outscored the Colts 16-14.
The defense put the offense in a deep hole. On the third scoring drive, the defense picked up a 15 yard unnecessary roughness penalty and gave up a 22 yard pass play on 4th & 4 both in the 2nd Quarter on the drive that made the score 21-0.
"Never give up! Never surrender!" Captain Peter Quincy Taggert in "Galaxy Quest"
"The best defense is a good offense. Or is it the other way around." Wolverine
Pray for the best, prepare for the worst, and know you will come down somewhere between the two.
Livin' in La La Land and Lovin' It
by Brian Shrout on Dec 14, 2009 3:35 PM MST up reply actions
I hear what you are saying and most probably had us written off after they went up 21-0.
I for one didn’t and really thought [here I go thinking again] that we still had a good chance to pull out a victory. I guess that’s the never give up side of me and something we as Bronco fans aren’t used much anymore. Count the drives we had and then count the points. They don’t add up and I ain’t saying that the Colts defense aren’t a great defense but targeting Marshall on 90% of the passing plays and losing Buckhalter to injury hurt us. Moreno had some good runs to the outsides and why McD kept calling runs up the middle when we were getting blown off, and I mean blown off is pure ridiculous to keep trying. True though, giving up 21 points does change the playbook but they had other avenues to go down. I was thinking maybe a 3 TE plan where Sheffler would line up wide with Quinn and Graham to protect Orton. Let’s face it, they had 2 rookie DB’s and a banged up safety. You have to exploit the weakness, McD didn’t give Kyle the opportunity to do so, that’s has me concerned.
truly
question though, wasn’t scheffler also hurt early on in the game? I’m trying to remember.
"Never give up! Never surrender!" Captain Peter Quincy Taggert in "Galaxy Quest"
"The best defense is a good offense. Or is it the other way around." Wolverine
Pray for the best, prepare for the worst, and know you will come down somewhere between the two.
Livin' in La La Land and Lovin' It
by Brian Shrout on Dec 14, 2009 3:57 PM MST up reply actions
I never gave(give) up hope either bfree
Even though #7 isn’t back there, I believe we have a team that can make come backs. Now 28-0, I would have been worried. =)
Character may be manifested in the great moments but it is made in the small ones -- Philip Brooks
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Leave it to a Teacher to school everyone. Lol
Great work and thanks B.
Rec’d
Character may be manifested in the great moments but it is made in the small ones -- Philip Brooks
This seems to me
Like one of the times where the stats are misleading. Even if overall we have been successful in that situation we obviously weren’t against Indianapolis. So why keep calling that type of play if the other team is better prepared to stop it than you are to run it? I hope to see more creativity in the play calling should a similar situation arise.
diversity and variety would have been very welcome in the playcalling
I find myself wondering how much of the problem lies in the guys who are dinged up — Scheffler, Harris being out, Buckhalter going down, Larsen going down, etc.
"Never give up! Never surrender!" Captain Peter Quincy Taggert in "Galaxy Quest"
"The best defense is a good offense. Or is it the other way around." Wolverine
Pray for the best, prepare for the worst, and know you will come down somewhere between the two.
Livin' in La La Land and Lovin' It
by Brian Shrout on Dec 14, 2009 7:05 PM MST up reply actions
Great work BShrout!
I’ll take this opportunity to post some research I was doing on this very subject leading up to the Colts game.
First, I’ll point out some stuff from various comments above. There was mention of seeing this perceived trend through a prism of “recency.” This is a form of cognitive bias that has resonance at the source of the frequency (i.e. right after a 1 for 6 game) but dissipates with time and space. There was mention of injury on the oline, and I’ll point out that my research shows little effect in short yardage running from that influence. Basically, Polumbus has played well in Harris’ absence, and Hamilton’s early play was a combination of veteran excellence and remarkably incongruent brain farts. His inconsistency was his curse, and his low downs were matched with very high ups. The post Hamilton blocking from Hochstein has been a steady dose of ‘meh.’ Not too bad, not too good, but dependable and consistent
Moving onto the meat of the analysis. I ran a series of Sharpe’s (no not that one) ratios, in order to weigh the value of certain playcalls, roughly designated, for short yardage situations. I did this for multiple criteria on the Denver offense, including by player, by playcall, by direction of run, and by passing concept. I did a similar analysis of the Colt’s defense through 13 games, but focused on interior vs outside running and different passing concepts.
For those not familiar with a Sharpe’s ratio, it is essentially a means of analyzing risk by unit of return for an investment. It consists of dividing an average of a particular group of units by their standard deviation. The upshot is that when you compare the results of say, running left with Knowshon on 3 and 1 vs. using a passing concept that creates horizontal space between the defenders, you get a number for each. the larger number indicates better value for risk incurred.
Last point before the numbers, and that is to outline some criteria: I included distance up to and including 3rd and 4 in my consideration of short yardage, win/loss situations. this includes fourth down, which was penalized heavily for failing, just as turnovers form INTs would be (high risk). My baseline was zero, which basically represents zero net change and preserves the option of a punt or FG.
There really aren’t any surprises for Denver leading up to the Indy game, if you’ve been watching closely: the quick passing game is consistent and formidable, but was primarily a function of our redzone and goal-to-go offenses. With those plays removed (to account for a much higher risk tolerance) this portion of our short yardage offense is middling at best with a 0.234998 ratio. My research indicates that a fundamental concept of our offense is to use Marshall alone in space on the left side of the field in these situations. the playcalling leading up to these particular calls invariable places the ball appropriately on the hash marks and pulls cheating LBs ad safeties away from him. It has been 4/4 for scoring opportunities inside of 10 yards, and as a byproduct of this research, i find myself looking forward to seeing the eventual well-prepared opponent get schooled in whatever constraint play McDaniel’s has designed to take advantage of the team that spots this particular tendency of ours. So far so good….
With the quick passing game concept firmly in the service of setting up our redzone offense, I also looked at the more traditional “shotgun, scan the field” concept. These are opportunities where Orton is responsible for reads after the play has started. they were used frequently, especially for plays over 2 yards, and the lowest of any of our unadjusted ratios, very hit or miss: 0.2581989. This is generally a good score, but the risk is high and the reward was consistently low. We can execute this concept well, but it simply isn’t in the Broncos best interest to do so.
Again, these two points aren’t necessarily anything new. Most of the MHR fans don’t really expect fancy pass options. Their concern has been that we are not “running to the outside” more, including off the end and behind the tackles. And indeed our outside running attack clocks in at a whopping 0.707107. However, it should be noted that the sample size is not as impressive as the previous categories. But that being said, film review confirms that outside short yardage running is a strength that we execute very well when we try it. Finally, the much maligned short yardage interior running of the Colts game clocks in at 0.268543. There is a terrific sample size to draw from, there have been few critical mistakes (before the Colt’s game) and overall we have executed these plays well, as BShrout’s research indicates.
Before getting into the perceived anomaly of the playcalling, I’ll add some additional data: Knowshon was easily the best short yardage option ont eh roster, and when Hillis and Jordan’s negative runs were removed from the interior running ratio, it jumped to 0.467011, a massive increase in productivity. It indicates that Moreno is not necessarily a problem, though he has indeed been the back on the back on the field for a few interior running plays where the execution was poor. Also, the ratios for running behind Weigmann, Hochstein/Hamilton are generally quite poor, at 0.14 and -0.18. Clady is better, clocking in at .300375 while Kuper dominates in short yardage at 1.78885. Too often, however, the one cut has been designed to bend back away from Kuper’s stellar blocking. When the blocking scheme is more straight ahead, we seem to take advantage of his side more.
So then the question becomes, if our outside running game is more effective than our interior game, why not go to it more during the course of the game? this brings me to a point a friend of mine brought up as the game went along. He asked (as some of you have asked above), “Why do they keep running into the middle like that? It is like they expect something different to happen!!” My response? “What if they do?” As in, what if they DID expect something different to happen? And why would they expect it?
Now we get to the Colt’s defensive ratios.
The Colt’s have allowed an exceptionally low .264911 in outside running in short yardage situations: not a stretch of the imagination due to their team speed. the amoeba offensive philosophy (which has gotten us some great wins this year) will hardly try to challenge that when a much more passable 0.814345 is available to attack in the interior, where they have struggled to stop anyone all year.
And to be fair, Denver did adjust. When an interior run by Buck was stuffed, they twice tried to take Moreno to the outside, and twice failed before trying Moreno up the gut, but the Colt’s Dline penetration was unreal. Denver eventually switched over to passing in short yardage (using the Marshall setup I described above to twice convert, once for a TD, the second time because they were desperate for a first down late in the game) and their final attempt was also a conversion on a sneak. SO it wasn’t like they were blindly following a gameplan built on Indy’s weaknesses, but they also weren’t going to abandon it without forcing Indy to prove that they were up to the challenge of defending that interior running game, something they faltered at all season. To abandon the interior running game, is to abandon much of the time spent in practice preparing for the use of those plays, as well as an abandonment of many of the concepts that those running plays setup (and they can often set up concepts in the passing game even if they aren’t a roaring success.)
All in all I have a hard time finding much fault with the gameplan itself, which targeted a very specific weakness of the Colts. Credit to teh Colts for doing something they have managed to do all season: prepare well for the way team’s are most likely to attack them. They have had to win games a lot of different ways, including coming from 3 scores behind twice. Against the broncos, their special challenge was getting the ball back to their offense when we weree doing well on 1st and second down, and they managed to do it with inspired line play in the trenches. Kudos to them. For what it was worth, we got it figured out by the end of the game and converted our final two short yardage attempts. Unfortunately, 21 points is too many to spot to the Colts…
Precision in thought, concision in style, decision in life.
"That's MR.Styg..."
by Jeremy Bolander on Dec 15, 2009 5:49 AM MST reply actions 8 recs
Very impressive...YOU have a true Coach's insight!
-Richee
-Measure your performance against your best competitors and consider how you can use it to beat them the next time!
-Your concious mind can only hold one thought at a time, positive or negative. Which is it going to be???
by BroncoSense72 on Dec 15, 2009 9:40 AM MST up reply actions
This deserves its own post
"All credibility, all good conscience, all evidence of truth come only from the senses." Friedrich Nietzsche
Very nice indeed.
This is the sort of thinking and analysis that I really appreciate, but am not very good at generating on my own. Best damn site on the net!
Larson and 3rd down
I looked and noted when Denver ran 3rd and short and Larson was available as a FB Denver went 5-5 in those situations.
... if you have a belief, you will tend to find things that support it. But if you have a prejudice, you’ll move heaven and earth to maintain it. BroncoBear
cool
thanks for adding your research
"Never give up! Never surrender!" Captain Peter Quincy Taggert in "Galaxy Quest"
"The best defense is a good offense. Or is it the other way around." Wolverine
Pray for the best, prepare for the worst, and know you will come down somewhere between the two.
Livin' in La La Land and Lovin' It
by Brian Shrout on Dec 17, 2009 12:10 PM MST up reply actions
In a word "WOW"
great research and awesome presentation.
thanks for adding it to the discussion.
rec’d
Might I suggest a cut & paste & putting this forward as it’s own post?
"Never give up! Never surrender!" Captain Peter Quincy Taggert in "Galaxy Quest"
"The best defense is a good offense. Or is it the other way around." Wolverine
Pray for the best, prepare for the worst, and know you will come down somewhere between the two.
Livin' in La La Land and Lovin' It
dang that was supposed to be a reply to Jeremy's comment.
"Never give up! Never surrender!" Captain Peter Quincy Taggert in "Galaxy Quest"
"The best defense is a good offense. Or is it the other way around." Wolverine
Pray for the best, prepare for the worst, and know you will come down somewhere between the two.
Livin' in La La Land and Lovin' It
by Brian Shrout on Dec 15, 2009 9:08 AM MST up reply actions
I meant
Well that’s silly
First team to three consecutive SB wins!!!! and then some, right? I think four and someone else oughtta have a 'fair' shot ( =
by PearlJamBroncoGFunk on Dec 15, 2009 12:42 PM MST up reply actions
Well that's silly
First team to three consecutive SB wins!!!! and then some, right? I think four and someone else oughtta have a 'fair' shot ( =
by PearlJamBroncoGFunk on Dec 15, 2009 12:41 PM MST reply actions
Good stuff B!
And Thanks for the addition Jeremy!
I always appreciate the pre-analyzed data and portrayals of said info. Especially when it’s laid out so well.
First team to three consecutive SB wins!!!! and then some, right? I think four and someone else oughtta have a 'fair' shot ( =
by PearlJamBroncoGFunk on Dec 15, 2009 12:44 PM MST reply actions
thanks
and help me to encourage jeremy to take his comment & make it a stand alone post. :)
"Never give up! Never surrender!" Captain Peter Quincy Taggert in "Galaxy Quest"
"The best defense is a good offense. Or is it the other way around." Wolverine
Pray for the best, prepare for the worst, and know you will come down somewhere between the two.
Livin' in La La Land and Lovin' It
by Brian Shrout on Dec 15, 2009 8:04 PM MST up reply actions
I would need to polish it up some
I may get to that tomorrow perhaps, but we are closing in on fader domination time, and something tells me that whatever we do in that game, we will probably wash a lot of this bitter taste from our memories…
Precision in thought, concision in style, decision in life.
"That's MR.Styg..."
by Jeremy Bolander on Dec 15, 2009 9:54 PM MST up reply actions
surely you're not suggesting
that we tend to filter our perceptions through the lens of the most recently played game . . .
;-p
"Never give up! Never surrender!" Captain Peter Quincy Taggert in "Galaxy Quest"
"The best defense is a good offense. Or is it the other way around." Wolverine
Pray for the best, prepare for the worst, and know you will come down somewhere between the two.
Livin' in La La Land and Lovin' It
by Brian Shrout on Dec 15, 2009 10:09 PM MST up reply actions
Always late to the party, but good post B
Rec’d
"All credibility, all good conscience, all evidence of truth come only from the senses." Friedrich Nietzsche
thanks,
maybe late, but always welcome
"Never give up! Never surrender!" Captain Peter Quincy Taggert in "Galaxy Quest"
"The best defense is a good offense. Or is it the other way around." Wolverine
Pray for the best, prepare for the worst, and know you will come down somewhere between the two.
Livin' in La La Land and Lovin' It
by Brian Shrout on Dec 15, 2009 8:04 PM MST up reply actions
It seems to me
that Spencer Larson is the key to all this. The games that he was completely healthy – San Diego 1, Baltimore, Pittsburg, Washington – we did pretty well on short yardage. Not so much in the others. Do we need another sledgehammer FB for next year? Hillis is a RB and Moreno and Buck seem to take off when Larson is in the game.
interesting notion.
I didn’t think to look at the differences between games/plays when Larson was on the field vs those when he wasn’t. Not even sure there’s any way to do that without going back & looking at every offensive play on film.
"Never give up! Never surrender!" Captain Peter Quincy Taggert in "Galaxy Quest"
"The best defense is a good offense. Or is it the other way around." Wolverine
Pray for the best, prepare for the worst, and know you will come down somewhere between the two.
Livin' in La La Land and Lovin' It
by Brian Shrout on Dec 16, 2009 9:19 AM MST up reply actions

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