What exactly does coach have against Peyton Hillis?
by Donkeylover on Dec 14, 2009 10:31 AM MST
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I thought Hillis went into the doghouse because of a couple penalties/fumbles in the first 2 games, now Knowshon and Buck have fumbled many times and Hillis can't get on the field. Even when Buck went down, McDaniels seemed content to overwork Knowshon. Isn't Peyton about as versatile a player as there is on the roster? Receiving, running, blocking, I thought McDaniels was going to turn him into his own secret weapon: screen passes, short yardage....what happened? Was there an ugly episode in practice?
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I don't get that either.
Thought we’d see more of him after his showing against KC in garbage time plus Buck going down.
Now where did that Kool-Aid vendor go?
Hillis had a concussion in one of the early games
As I recall. It might have been a pre-season game. Then I read somewhere that, while sitting on the sideline (after the concussion) he got hit smack in the temple by an errant pass. Or was it me that got hit in the temple and I’m imagining this?
We will now discuss in a little more detail the Struggle for Existence.
Charles Darwin. (The Origin Of Species)
Not seeing Hillis
Tells me that coach does not see in him the skills needed to advance the team. McDaniels does not strike me as the kind of coach to carry a grudge – you mght earn a place in the doghouse but you will be given a chance to work your way out (if not you’ll be cut). It appeared to me there was a big drop off in blocking between Larsen and Hillis – someone with a Tivo please correct me if wrong. Coach obviously figured a tired and ineffective Moreno still gave us more than Hillis could. I do not dislike Hillis in the slightest, just coming to the realization that McD appears to want Hillis to succeed but the skill just are not there.
..coaches are human too.
Coaches also make mistakes and I think McD is wrong on this one. And when you say McD appears to want Hillis to succeed, I’m not sure I see any evidence to really back that up. I don’t think it is a Larson vs Hillis thing as I see Hillis as a bruiser tailback. But when Moreno was clearly gassed and McD still left him in there it is a mistake pure and simple. We have seen Hillis play football for almost 2 years now. He is a football player pure and simple. It is clear to me that a rested Hillis is more likely to bang for an extra yard than a gassed and what appeared to be a slight gimp to Moreno. Coaches can be wrong and I feel strongly McD is wrong on this one.
by bonaire on Dec 14, 2009 11:07 AM MST up reply actions 1 recs
When Buck went down I expected to see Hillis
When Moreno was panting in the backfeild I really thought that Hillis would relieve him. Not seeing this made me realize that McD does not see Hillis as a contributor. I say that McD wants him to succed because that appears to be his general attitude towards players – why have a guy on the roster or even the practice squad if he cannot be successful there. His gutting the secondary but keeping many of the front guys tells me he thought he could help those that stayed succeed where they had failed before.
One big difference between this years team and last years. Last year the defense had to be aware of Cutler to Marshal or Royal deep at any time and in any situation – they wanted the DBs back there to catch the ball! This year we lack that clearly defined threat (opportunity) so the yards we gain on the ground are not so much an individual accomplishment as they are the exicution of the whole offense – I am thinking Coach does not see hillis filling the role in offense that he needs to fill. Does not mean I like it, agree with it, or even think it is right. It is my read on what I think McD’s thinking is.
Is he smart enough?
I have seeen Hillis miss asignments, be confused as to where to line up, and run suspect routes earlier in the season. Is he on top of the new system?
His Wonderlick score is 17 which Wapitiki says is average for his position. Surly that can’t be the reason.
How much did Larsen play after that knee hit him in the back early on Sunday? Was there even a leading fulback blocking on all those 3-4 and short plays?
by el_DON_de_TAOS on Dec 14, 2009 11:30 AM MST reply actions
Hillis was in as a blocker a few times and in my non-expert opinion, blocked the wrong player a few times.
A truth can only be expressed and enveloped in words if it is one-sided. Everything that is thought and expressed in words is one-sided, only half the truth; it all lacks totality, completeness, unity.
by Todd Jewell on Dec 14, 2009 11:32 AM MST up reply actions
There were a lot of running back errors in the Indy game.
Not following the lead blocker was one of them. as if they don’t trust each other or think their route is better than the lead one. It is a disturbing issue and they need to address this pronto if they expect success in the playoffs.
by bfree2bronc on Dec 14, 2009 12:45 PM MST up reply actions
could it be that the lead blocker missed his assignment?
Nothing against Hillis. I root for all Broncos to be successful. Just that what I have seen and heard is that he seems to be lacking in understanding the offense. Look at Simms, a lot of fans wnated him instead of Orton but I get the feeling he is not as ready or prepared as he should be in the event that Orton goes down. I don’t think we will see Mr. Simms back next year. As far as Hillis goes I get the feeling he is having a hard time adjusting to McD’s offense.
Just my opinion tho.
Moreno has missed just as many assignments
"Me fail english, that unpossible" - Ralph Wiggum
"Duffman is thrusting in the direction of the problem" - Duffman
"Good, bad, I'm the guy with the gun" - Ash from Army of Darkness
"H.I., you're young and you got your health, what you want with a job?" - Evelle from Raising Arizona
"It happens sometimes. People just explode. Natural causes." - Agent Rogersz from Repoman
In his press conference today he said that with Larsen out, Hillis won’t see the ball since he is the only halfback out there.
He said that he isn’t in the doghouse at all.
A truth can only be expressed and enveloped in words if it is one-sided. Everything that is thought and expressed in words is one-sided, only half the truth; it all lacks totality, completeness, unity.
by Todd Jewell on Dec 14, 2009 11:57 AM MST reply actions 1 recs
Something else has happened
because in Training Camp Hillis was used extensively. He was right in the same rotation with Buckhalter and the others. Moreno came in later. Some of the plays we saw over and over in TC are the same plays we are seeing now. One that we saw many times was the little swing pass to Hillis. We sure haven’t seen that all year.
With respect to el_DON_de TAOS and Todd Jewell above, I think Hillis has the intelligence to comprehend Mc D’s system and has not missed assignments. I think Hillis’ more bruising style would have been more effective against Indy’s faster but smaller interior linemen. Something else is going on here.
And I still want to see that little swing pass with Hillis against a corner playing off on single coverage.
It all starts in the trenches - HT 11/11/08
Leave the hateful vitriol to the uninformed - HT 3/16/09
by firstfan on Dec 14, 2009 12:15 PM MST reply actions 1 recs
Please note that this is pure speculation
bradley mentioned the possibility of Hillis trying to rehab from a concussion — that could be a contributing factor to his “looking lost” on the offense.
Personally, I believe an even bigger factor may be coming from having lost his grandmother in week 8 or 9 (I forget which). I’ve done a smattering of grief counseling, and one thing I noticed was that it can often take weeks/months to overcome the loss of a person — especially if that person was someone you were particularly close to. It may be that Hillis has simply been too distracted by this event to become proficient in the offense to the degree McDaniels wants to see. If that’s the case, McDaniels may be simply letting Hillis work through this without throwing on the additional pressure of being a lead RB.
"Never give up! Never surrender!" Captain Peter Quincy Taggert in "Galaxy Quest"
"The best defense is a good offense. Or is it the other way around." Wolverine
Pray for the best, prepare for the worst, and know you will come down somewhere between the two.
Livin' in La La Land and Lovin' It
So true B.
Hillis trying to rehab from a concussion — that could be a contributing factor to his "looking lost" on the offense.
I dont get all of the Hillis love
I do remember earlier in the season when he was making mental mistakes on offense and making criticial errors on special teams. He is a FB, and there has to be something going on during practices that limit his role in the offense. Just because he has shown flashes running the ball last year, doesnt translate to what is going on this year. Maybe he has trouble with blocking assignments. I may be wrong on this, but I feel the coaches have actual reasons for not giving Hillis more time on the field. But it doenst matter the way the o-line blocked on short yardage plays yesterday he would not have fared any better than KM.
- Dan Noreen.
by broncfanstuckinsd on Dec 14, 2009 12:41 PM MST reply actions
I don't agree
Hillis is just what we needed yesterday. Those 4th and one’s are what he’s made for. Don’t see why he’s not in there and if hurt why’d he do so good against KC?
KC don't count
Seen it called garbage time quite a bit her on MHR…. he was there to run out the clock. So long as he did not embarase anyone the defense was more than willing to let him do that.
I don't agree on that
The way the Colts were penetrating the middle Hillis would have been lucky to get back to the line of scrimmage. I have never seen a team penetrate the middle so fast ever. It was like they were camped out in our backfield.
Make those miracles happen - Jon Keyworth
by IgorBStrange on Dec 14, 2009 11:56 PM MST up reply actions
Hillis in the system.
for sheer size he doesnt break a whole lot of tackles, I know we have highlight reels to “prove” me wrong but Hillis didnt break a whole lot of tackles. He was very limited in yards after first contact. I think they are working on his technique and possibly going to make him a weapon in the playoffs. no game film to plan for him makes him dangerous. I like John’s (Guru) idea of getting him in space, the Kevin Faulk Chris Cooley type. how many DB’s can tackle him? he is a skilled player and lots of teams would love to have him but we have to find the RIGHT way to use him and I dont think he is the power back we would like him to be.
Davis and Sharpe to the Hall!
"Teamwork divides the task and double the success."
- Unknown
I can't believe you said that
for sheer size he doesnt break a whole lot of tackles, I know we have highlight reels to "prove" me wrong but Hillis didnt break a whole lot of tackles. He was very limited in yards after first contact
That’s exactly what Hillis does – break tackles.
We will now discuss in a little more detail the Struggle for Existence.
Charles Darwin. (The Origin Of Species)
he can break one sure
but the role of a power back as we envision Hillis is to break multiple tackles, I havent seen him do a whole lot of that
Davis and Sharpe to the Hall!
"Teamwork divides the task and double the success."
- Unknown
by Jon Tollerud on Dec 14, 2009 3:40 PM MST up reply actions
with the number of carries he gets, that's not an accurate sample to base an opinion on, as far as this season.
One or two plays at a time is no way to get into a rhythm. When he got a few carries in a row against KC, he looked good.
by jayrockstone on Dec 14, 2009 4:39 PM MST up reply actions
Hillis is not Csonka
As much as many may wish it, Hillis is not a Csonks/Riggins style back. God, i wish he was, but he is not. He can break tackles when it is DB’s and smaller LB’s, but he needs to get in the open and get moving first. Unfortunately, with the teams the Broncos have been facing, the middle penetrations have not been allowing that.
Make those miracles happen - Jon Keyworth
by IgorBStrange on Dec 15, 2009 12:00 AM MST up reply actions
He's an H-back
and we don’t have that job description right now
"Kool-Aid Kool Aid, Tastes Great, We Want Kool Aid, Can't Wait"
by littletinybroncos on Dec 17, 2009 5:06 PM MST up reply actions
Don't know what's up, but the kid needs to play with Buckhalter out
I’m with you guys on the swing passes out in the flat. Hillis has soft hands and can run people over. Give the kid the flippin ball.
"Precipitation, which side are you on?
Are you on the rise? Are you falling down?
Let me know, Come on let's go, yeah
Got some if you need it!" -EV
abosulutely, sadaraine.
as far as the concussion theory, hillis can either play or he can’t. he ran a play yesterday, which tells me he could’ve played more. if not, then he shouldn’t be suited up.
Blocking
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Activate LaMont Jordan
Hopefully McDaniels will learn from the game yesterday and suit up three running backs.If you are going to use Hillis extensively as a fullback and you dont want to be caught without a healthy fullback,activate the third running back on Denver’s roster.It was apparent that Moreno could not handle the full workload presented to him and I think it was obvious to the Colts also.I was screaming for anybody to carry the damn ball when Moreno was limping and gassed.Put Marshall back there,he has shown that he id durable or even Chris Kuper,he did some hard running in the 4th quarter after his pitch from Marshall.Of course if Kuper carries the ball who blocks for him because he is our best blocker.
by OrangeCrush4082 on Dec 14, 2009 3:44 PM MST reply actions
McD, McCoy and Bobby Turner are not stupid
There are many reasons for the lack of use for Peyton. Missed assignments were from TC. This offense talks some thinking and if Kyle changes at the line, oops.
Watching the tape over and over, i noticed the OL trying to do too much instead of just their assignment AND 8 times Knowshon did not cut to the gap. Correll was hitting the holes before being hurt. Youth has to learn.
The big reason, Moreno is a 1st round draft pick getting 1st round money
McDaniels needs Moreno to suceed, to prove he didn’t make a mistake by not taking Orakpo. Hillis doesn’t make 1st round money and wasn’t drafted by McDaniels, he is basically insurance but I think McDaniels is scared to give him a legit shot and show that Moreno was a waste of a pick. Alfred Williams nailed it on the head, Moreno may be a decent RB, but he is not a special RB.
"Me fail english, that unpossible" - Ralph Wiggum
"Duffman is thrusting in the direction of the problem" - Duffman
"Good, bad, I'm the guy with the gun" - Ash from Army of Darkness
"H.I., you're young and you got your health, what you want with a job?" - Evelle from Raising Arizona
"It happens sometimes. People just explode. Natural causes." - Agent Rogersz from Repoman
"Hillis love" is way out of proportion to his talent
I like Hillis, but Hillis enthusiasm is way out of hand. He’s hyped on these fan pages more than anyone on the team.
I live in Montreal, where fans are so hungry to find the next Quebecois hockey star that they’ll talk about any marginal French player on the Montreal Canadiens as if he’s the second coming of Mario Lemieux! It’s the proximity factor at work where they want so badly to identify with one of their own. I’m convinced that’s what’s going on here! Hillis supporters are so dying to build him up because of the dearth of white running backs in the league. These fans are projecting their own dreams onto a guy whose pedigree is not much better than the other third string or decent practice squad players in the league.
I know I sound inflammatory, but I’m no troll. I love the team (and actually like Hillis in a support role), but let’s gain perspective on this. There’s no “Moreno only plays because McDaniels has excessive pride,” or what have you. That’s ridiculous! Moreno has a decent shot at rookie of the year and will be a fixture for years. Odds are, Hillis won’t be in the NFL whatsoever within three years.
GO BRONCOS!!!
by Buckingbronc on Dec 14, 2009 10:00 PM MST reply actions 1 recs
Troll! just kidding
I agree with you. Bronco fans love finding that “diamond in the rough” runningback. I really like Hillis as person and as player (met him skiing briefly skiing), but he is not as good as we fans would like to think. McDaniel’s system plays the best player for the given situation, period. Hillis hasn’t been playing because for whatever reason, the coaches think they are better off with just Moreno and Buck.
Personally, (and this is just speculation) I think the coaches went into the season planning on him being our goal line/ short yard guy. However, the first few games showed that the O-Line and Hillis just couldn’t pound the rock in short yard situations like we had hoped. Hopefully, they’ll try it again either in the playoffs or in TC next season.
by rollinthunder on Dec 15, 2009 9:46 AM MST up reply actions
Thank you for this post.
Big time rec on this one. I didn’t want to say it, but I’ve waiting for this to get pointed out on nearly every Hillis love post. This is a situation that is all about older white gentleman that like a player because he’s white. I’m sorry, that’s just the way I see it.
by legendarywalton on Dec 15, 2009 12:24 PM MST up reply actions
I was surprised to not see much of Hillis on Sunday.
I thought that with Larsen out, a TE or O lineman could function as a blocking back/FB to help in blocking. In reading the comments, I am seeing that it takes some knowledge of the playbook and the opposing D to effectively block in front of the RB. What DLMyers commented that the OL was trying to do too much instead of their assignments and KM missing the gaps was adding to the challenge. Maybe the coaches saw the breakdown and thought that a winded KM was the best option. Too bad, though, I loved seeing the fire in Hillis’ eyes in the KC game after his runs.
BTW: I don’t agree with Buckingbronc about Hillis. I don’t care what color he is or if his hair is multi-color:red, green, orange, blue etc. So long as he gives the offense a decent chance of advancing the ball either running or catching, it is fine by me. He performed very well last season starting in the Cleveland game until he went down against KC. If I remember right, he was the leading rusher of the RBs. I am hoping that he could do that again in this system.
Look at the Fanposts over the last six months...
I know some fans (like Blackknigh) legitimately see Hillis’ skillset and his potential to contribute, and I agree to some level. I am commenting on the ridiculous number of fanposts he receives. I’m still convinced it is about color! Even if he’s about the 30th best player on the team (that’s generous on my part) I’d venture fanposts on him outnumber those on, say, Champ Bailey 1000 to 1. It’s unwarranted. Can you really say he’s much better than a Mike Bell was a few years back. Don’t think Bell would’ve receieved a tenth of “Hillis-love.” Less of a proximity factor with the typical middle class fan!
by Buckingbronc on Dec 15, 2009 10:44 AM MST up reply actions
Some video of Hillis
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cSjDe0WDuCg
We will now discuss in a little more detail the Struggle for Existence.
Charles Darwin. (The Origin Of Species)
little josh's ego comes first and broncos 2nd
if u have a player banged up, moreno then rest him and play hillis/ jordan. all u people saying hillis is a short and one back, must not have seen him run for 120 yds last year against the jets 3rs ranked rushing defense and yes he played the whole game, and didn’t get all his yards in the 4th quarter when they were tired…very short memories on some of these posts. the most he playes the better he got, remember he was rusty since he had to play behind mcfadden and the other guy.
some say he hasn’t done anything this year.. he’s had 12 carries
over 14 games, wow . let’s use him too much, you also forget he’s actually a very small bit faster than moreno.
royal- 91 receptions last year, scheffler
part of the problem is the qb range is limited and josh is working with what he’s got that;s a given, but i remember him saying we aren’t going to force the ball to anyone, we will take advantage of what is available to us…i find it hard to believe that marshall us the only wr or te that can get open on the whole team.
eddie royal could and should be another welker…what happen.
please go back to zone blocking, the other isn’t working..accept it and move on..not your fought josh, the denver line coach who installed this system, has been very successful with it for years.
broncos 1st
egos somewhere down the line 10th maybe.
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