The Dude Abides...The Stats That Don't Lie, Week 14
"What did you say, Stats Champion? I'll beat you like a dog, a dog, you fool!" --Clubber Lang
I pity the fool that believes in league parity.
Let's be honest. Outside of a few games, Week 14 was a complete bore. The winning teams won by an average of 15 points. While the storyline of the two undefeated teams continued to be compelling, most of the games were as forgettable as a JaMarcus Russell seam pass or a Jay Cutler trip to the red zone. Roger Goodell should have donated some of his TV revenues back to charity. At least fans would have felt better about the six hours of their lives they won't be getting back.
However, we did learn something about the Denver Broncos. They stand more than a puncher's chance in the playoffs.
Welcome to another round of The Stats That Don't Lie, your statistical Mister T. These are the stats that hit below the belt. They are the stats that never have to go to the judges. In short, they beat you like a dog, fool. As always they are Turnovers, Field Position, Time of Possession, and 3rd-Down Efficiency.
10,000-Foot View
We first begin with my favorite visual of the Broncos season - turnover margin. This time, I restricted the visual to the games since the bye week. Honestly, cramming 13 weeks of data was getting tough.
As I did last week, I wanted to illustrate how the turnovers from the box score can be a little deceiving. Therefore, I included both the turnover margin that includes interceptions and fumbles in orange and the turnover margin that includes interceptions, fumbles, and turnovers on downs in blue. The latter also included missed field goals as was suggested previously.
It's worth repeating what I wrote last week in looking at the two stats side by side:
...stats geeks have argued for decades that turnovers on downs should be included in the turnover statistics. The thinking is that no matter the method of turning the ball over (fumble, interception, or downs), it still has the same basic result: the drive is dead. Clearly, there is a higher value in an interception or fumble because of the inherent possibility of a score, but a turnover on downs stops your drive just the same.
Applying this to the Indianapolis-Denver game, one immediately notices that the recorded turnover margin is, well, a missed uppercut. The box score shows that Denver won the turnover margin battle by two. But in reality, Denver turned the ball over on downs on three drives during the game and also missed a field goal. So that swings Denver's positive turnover margin to the negative. Many have commented about the concern over the play-calling on 4th down. These "real" turnover numbers lend credence to this view. Not converting these 4th downs (and the 3rd downs that preceded them) on short yardage killed Denver in this game, so much so that it was the equivalent of losing the turnover battle. And, unlike Indianapolis or New Orleans, Denver is a team that needs to win the turnover battle.
To this game (and in particular, 3rd downs) we shall return again, but let's get to our team rankings.
Team Rankings
Here's where the Broncos stack up against the rest of the league after Week 14. As always, remember these are averages/game (in my mind a better measure than aggregate numbers):
I'm not letting the Broncos off the hook on 3rd downs, where they rank 23rd in the league. This is just an atrocious stat given that teams like the Detroit Lions are more effective. If for some reason the Broncos don't make the playoffs, we can all point to 3rd downs as the reason why. While I'll leave others to speculate on the tactical reasons for this (bad play calling, a weak offensive line, Moreno's cuts and reads), it's outrageous that an 8-5 team is hovering at around 35% on 3rd downs--the Kool-Aid has gone just a tad bitter.
If you doubt the power of 3rd downs (or my power of cherry picking stats to make my case), then simply take a quick peek at which two teams are #1 and #2 in this statistic. My oh my, it happens to be the two teams who are 13-0.
Speaking of the Saints and Colts, everyone in the mainstream media continues their enchantment with these teams going undefeated. They very well may do so, but historically, they are not as good as teams from the past have been. As it currently stands, New Orleans has a points/points against ratio of 1.70. Indy's is 1.65. Historically, over the last 25 years, this would put these teams between 13-14 wins. The 1985 Bears hold the record for the largest points/points against ratio at 2.03. And they still lost a game. Count me with the dwindling crowd of naysayers.
In case you were wondering, the Broncos' ratio is currently 1.11, which projects them at 10 wins. And strangely enough, 10 wins coincides with Kyle Orton's historical winning percentage. Given Denver's schedule this year (its opponents currently hold an overall record of 91-78), 10 wins would be a good accomplishment.
Other positives for the Broncos? Their field position is getting better, they (generally) continue to be smart with the football, and one of their receivers is doing his best impersonation of Ivan Drago. He will break you.
I once again included average-turnover-margin per game in these stats. This is because I can't resist piling on Tony Romo and the Cowboys. While they are tied for 4th in giveaways, they are 14th in turnover margin, and actually have a net-negative-turnover margin/game. Romo can volunteer for holding duties all he wants, but he might want to tell his defense to force some turnovers, first.
Turnover margin also begs me to ask the question, "If the season ended today, who would you rather play, New England or Cincinnati?" The Broncos have beaten both, and it looks like they will be on the road against one of these teams. From the rankings above, give me the Bengals. They are slightly worse on 3rd downs and give up the ball slightly more than the Patriots. But their average turnover margin/game is barely positive. This tells me they can be beaten. And if the Broncos are like the rest of us, I am sure they want to prove that Week 1 was no fluke.
Did I mention that Brady and Belichick scare the hell out of me in the playoffs?
The I-can't-believe-you-creeped-up-on-me award should certainly go to the Packers. Their rankings in each of the categories is top ten. Their average-turnover-margin per game is a whopping 1.38, which is much higher than that of New Orleans. Although they have a tougher schedule in the next three weeks than the Vikings, they are peaking at the right time. If the season were only a few games longer, the Vikings could have had real problems. Expect those problems, however, to begin in the playoffs with whoever the Packers match up against.
For those that are already looking past the Raiders (like me), and are wondering how Philly is stacking up, it's clear that game will be incredibly difficult for the Broncos. The Eagles can score points (as witnessed this week against the Giants), but more importantly, their average turnover margin/game is a stellar 1.15. DeSean Jackson has also allowed them to rank 5th in field position, beginning on average at the 31.19-yard line.
Last week, I stated that I didn't think Jacksonville was playoff material because their average turnover margin/game was negative and their points differential was -48. After this week, that number climbed to -52. Look for them to be overtaken by either Baltimore or even Miami (if they get past Tennessee this week).
Lastly, I've never been accused of being self-actualized, so I continue to get my jollies off of blasting Jay Cutler. This week is no different. Although the Bears have slipped slightly in their field-position rankings, I continue to ask myself how good they could be if Jay Cutler's name was Kyle Orton. Oh, and if Jay's right arm wasn't a drinking fountain for interceptions.
Week 14 Summaries
There isn't a lot more to be said about the Broncos game in addition to the turnovers, so I'll just point out a few things. First, Indy was again over 50% on 3rd downs for the game, while Denver hovered around its season average of 35%. We all knew that they needed to beat the Colts in this category to stand a chance. Second, time of possession had little value in the game. As the Broncos witnessed during the 1st quarter, it didn't take Manning long to score. In fact, on the three quick touchdowns that put Denver in the hole 21-0, the Colts' average drive lasted about 4:27 and their average yards per play was 6.7. For the Colts, a drive that lasts over 4 minutes is an eternity. For the rest of the league, it seems rather hasty. Lastly, even though Denver did a good job with overall field position during the game, their average starting field position on kickoffs was the 18-yard line. I am begging Josh McDaniels to let Eddie Royal become a slot receiver, not a kick returner.
A few other games of note: First, New Orleans-Atlanta. Yes, Sean Payton's fake-field-goal call was a bit strange. But if the Saints don't go 8-of-12 on 3rd downs, they don't win this game. Both teams only had 8 total drives for the entire game (compare this to 13 in the Denver-Indy game). Drives were at a premium - which meant, so were 3rd downs. Going 66% on 3rd downs was absolutely critical - even more important given that Atlanta was 50%. If only this kind of efficiency could rub off on Denver.
I wanted to highlight San Diego-Dallas also. I hate Philip Rivers. I absolutely hate the guy. But Kyle Orton would do well to study how he shuffles in the pocket. While Peyton Manning is the king of shuffling in the pocket, Rivers isn't far behind. Also, statistically, Dallas, you can't go 13% on 3rd downs (Kansas City territory) while your opponent goes 42% and expect to win an NFL game.
As an amusement, I highlight the Arizona-San Francisco game. I was really hoping that Arizona would come back in this game after committing 5 turnovers in the first half. In the last two years, I've been wanting to analyze an NFL game in which the turnover margin was -5, and yet a team managed to win. But the pesky turnovers kept giving the 49ers a short field, and even an Alex Smith-led team can win this type of game. So I'll continue my sorrowful wait.
The Summaries
2-Turnover Rule (Explained Here)
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6 teams had 0 turnovers. 2 won (33%); For the season, 62/80 (78%)
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12 teams had 1 turnover. 7 won (58%); For the season, 71/121 (59%)
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5 teams had 2 turnovers. 3 won (60%); For the season, 51/115 (44%)
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5 teams had 3 turnovers. 4 won (80%); For the season, 20/61 (33%)
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2 team had 4 turnovers. None won (0%); For the season, 4/27 (15%)
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2 teams had 5+ turnovers. None won (0%); For the season, 0/12 (0%)
Week 14 - Big Picture
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The team that won the turnover battle won 11 of 16 games played (69%).
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In the previous category, remove the ties (4 games) and this changes to 44%
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The team that won the time of possession battle won 13 of the 16 games played (63%).
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The team that had better third-down efficiency won 12 of the 16 games played (81%).
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The team that had better average starting field position won 14 of the 16 games played (88%).
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There were 5 games this week in which a team won all four categories. In all 5, the same team won on the scoreboard (100%). For the season, this stat is 67 out of 72 games. In only 3 games, however, has a team won outright in all four categories (no ties in the turnover battle) and lost.
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The winning teams this week averaged 1.56 turnovers, 31:27 in time of possession, 42.23% on 3rd downs, and their average starting field position was the 34.73-yard line.
Top 5 in Week 14:
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Top 5 in giveaways: Pittsburgh, Cleveland, New Orleans, Carolina, Jacksonville, and Dallas all tied with 0.
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Top 5 in time of possession: 1.San Francisco 2.New Orleans 3.Miami 4.New York Giants 5.New England
Top 5 in 3rd downs: 1.New Orleans 2.Minnesota 3.Indy 4.Miami 5. San Francisco/Atlanta
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Top 5 in avg. starting field position: 1.Green Bay 2.Baltimore 3.San Francisco 4.New York Jets 5.Minnesota
Running Totals, Season (through 14 weeks):
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208 games have been played this season
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79.81% were won by the team with less turnovers (counting ties as wins)
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66.35% with a better time of possession
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67.79% by the team who won on 3rd down
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71.63% by the team that won the field-position battle.
14-week League Averages:
14-week running average/game, turnovers (all teams): 1.70
14-week running average/game, time of possession (all teams): 30:10 (thanks to OT games)
14-week running average/game, 3rd down efficiency (all teams): 37.62%
14-week running average, starting field position (all teams) 29.87-yard line
The Look Ahead
Looking ahead to Oakland, here is how the two teams stack up in the four statistical categories (keeping in mind these are averages/game):
Team Turnovers/Game Time of Possession Field Position 3rd-Down Efficiency
Denver 1.46 30:10 29.10 35.13%
Oakland 2.00 27:39 27.14 28.91%
Do I even need to say any more? If Denver loses this game - especially at home - they really have about as much business being in the playoffs as John Clayton has being at a Sturgis bike rally. Oakland is dead meat.
Denver should dominate this team and TKO them by the 2nd quarter. The last game was 23-3, and I would consider this close. There is absolutely no reason why Denver shouldn't send Al's boys home to contemplate Tom Cable's imminent firing and another top-5 draft pick. This week's prediction for Oakland: pain! I pity the fool that thinks otherwise.
Hail, Kyle Orton!!
Last stat: 100% (percentage chance that Al Davis really is a vampire).
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Comments
3rd down efficiency is holding
the Broncos back. This would be a dominating team if they were better in that one category. Frustrating to watch. Not looking past the Raiders, yet. They always seem to get Denver’s number when we do that. Frye is starting and they just signed Losman, so is Jamarcus the Hut done in Oakland?
Another great week of presenting the stats that don’t lie TJ, keep em coming.
"A great pleasure in life is doing what people say you cannot do" Walter Gagenot
"Hope sees the invisible, feels the intangible and achieves the impossible."
Chiper, I am guessing that if Cable loses his job (which is likely), that they will bring in yet another coach....
…to try and revive Russell. If Cable keeps the job, I suspect that’s a sign from Davis that the JaMarcus era is history…
"But I hate the way our identity has changed..Kyle Orton might not be the flashiest quarterback, but the guy is a winner, and that formula worked for us. I hate to say it, but that’s the truth." --Brian Urlacher
Sad
that Cable’s job would be on the line. Frankly as much as I dislike the Raiders, he has done a fair job with this team given the resources he has to work with……you’re probably right though TJ
"A great pleasure in life is doing what people say you cannot do" Walter Gagenot
"Hope sees the invisible, feels the intangible and achieves the impossible."
aside from the whole breaking jaws of employees right?
:)
by BroncoInExile on Dec 16, 2009 12:53 PM MST up reply actions
+1
He should be in jail, not on the sidelines.
by BroncosBassist on Dec 16, 2009 1:28 PM MST up reply actions
Probably could say that about the entire black hole!
"But I hate the way our identity has changed..Kyle Orton might not be the flashiest quarterback, but the guy is a winner, and that formula worked for us. I hate to say it, but that’s the truth." --Brian Urlacher
aside from the jaw breaking ordeal....
absolutely. However, Hansen didn’t even press charges on him so I’m thinking there was more to the story than what is being told to the MSM. I just think at some point the Raiders need to stop the coach-go-round and give their HC a better. Of course as long as the grim reaper is in change that won’t happen.
"A great pleasure in life is doing what people say you cannot do" Walter Gagenot
"Hope sees the invisible, feels the intangible and achieves the impossible."
wow, i need to edit better.
that should say HC a better chance. and grim reaper in charge not change.
"A great pleasure in life is doing what people say you cannot do" Walter Gagenot
"Hope sees the invisible, feels the intangible and achieves the impossible."
Saw a rumor over on the Raider's Blog
This looks, feels, smells and probably sounds like a complete wet dream but I read a post over on the black hole suggesting Gruden could be coming back – enticed by a 5% ownership stake.
I haven’t heard this anywhere else but supposedly he was in Oakland partying with some fans last weekend and Madden made a comment about it. Has anyone else heard anything along these lines? I’d hate to see Chucky back with the Raiders.
"He who knows nothing is closer to the truth than he whose mind is filled with falsehoods and errors." ~ Thomas Jefferson.
I don’t suffer from insanity – I enjoy every minute of it!
by Broncos 'n Scotch (BS) on Dec 17, 2009 2:38 PM MST up reply actions
I read about the party
but why would Chucky give up his 5 year deal with the network. It’s an easy gig compared to the life of a coach. I don’t think he’s going anywhere.
Character may be manifested in the great moments but it is made in the small ones -- Philip Brooks
Maybe the party was because
he turned down the offer from Al??
Precision in thought, concision in style, decision in life.
"That's MR.Styg..."
by Jeremy Bolander on Dec 18, 2009 2:43 PM MST up reply actions
This is very true
Increase the 3rd down efficiency, and I’ll bet the red zone efficiency numbers improve just as much.
by BroncosBassist on Dec 16, 2009 1:29 PM MST up reply actions
Good point
... if you have a belief, you will tend to find things that support it. But if you have a prejudice, you’ll move heaven and earth to maintain it. BroncoBear
If we don't start completing 3rd downs we don't deserve to be there anyway.
I am begging Josh McDaniels to let Eddie Royal become a slot receiver, not a kick returner.
I believe Josh McDaniels is a smart man, but, to tell you the truth egos sometimes get in the way of logic. We lost the Colts game because 1-5 3rd down rushing plays worked and the 1 was a quarterback sneak by Orton. Good for him. Whatever McD is doing as far as Moreno (justifying his 12th pick) isn’t working in big games. Hey…McD set aside that big head and make decisions that will work! I sure heck don’t want to make the playoffs just to be sent home with our tail between our legs.
Bfree, the Colts loss was very hard to take--specifically down 21-0.
I think one thing McD would say (although he’ll never go public with this) is that he’s going to be a better coach next year. No matter how much training you’ve received from Belichick or Saban or Patches O’Houlihan, you are going to have chart your own course.
I can’t imagine that he is stuck on a guy so much that he would force things. I think he probably legitimately thought they were going to get the yards. When I went back to the tape, you would be amazed at how keyed on the run up the middle the Colts were. On one play, Gaffney’s slot defender simply ignored him and run blitzed and hit Moreno in the backfield. It surprised Gaffney so much that he didn’t even fire off the line to stop the guy.
Like you, I am amazed how well QB sneaks work in this league.
"But I hate the way our identity has changed..Kyle Orton might not be the flashiest quarterback, but the guy is a winner, and that formula worked for us. I hate to say it, but that’s the truth." --Brian Urlacher
Agree on all counts
Please, oh Please let next season have a confident, healthy Orton and acclimated Oline who can change the play when Kyle sees such stacking.
"Aggression, discipline, accountability, effort" Brian Dawkins 9/29/2009
"Life is a daring adventure or nothing." Helen Keller
"He will always be a slave who does not know how to live upon a little" Horace
by PositivIntegral on Dec 16, 2009 3:36 PM MST up reply actions
3rd and short
Denver is so much better in 3 rd and short when Larson is the lead blocker. If he’s not available throw it.
... if you have a belief, you will tend to find things that support it. But if you have a prejudice, you’ll move heaven and earth to maintain it. BroncoBear
thanks, BIE
the hardest part is going from Monday night to Wednesday morning and pulling the data together so that it’s all in one place….oh, and I spend way too much time thinking of the quote
"But I hate the way our identity has changed..Kyle Orton might not be the flashiest quarterback, but the guy is a winner, and that formula worked for us. I hate to say it, but that’s the truth." --Brian Urlacher
"if Jays right arm wasn't a drinking fountain for interceptions..."
classic and rec’d
you already know.
thanks, man, it usually only takes about 30 seconds to come up with my weekly cutler line...
…all you have to do is ask yourself….what is plentiful in this world of ours?
…then suddenly, it comes to you:-)
"But I hate the way our identity has changed..Kyle Orton might not be the flashiest quarterback, but the guy is a winner, and that formula worked for us. I hate to say it, but that’s the truth." --Brian Urlacher
I can't come up with a word for it...
So I’ll improvise and hope that it works. Opportunism. Awash in these stats— particularly the modified turnover stat and 3rd down conversions— is what I would propose Denver lacks. It is the hard to define ‘it’ that separates the good from the mediocre pack. It is what defines the great in a league with more talent parity than most are willing to admit. I think Denver still stands on the edge of the precipice between the two (mediocre and good). I don’t mean that negatively, as the Broncos could be Detroit and they’d still be the Broncos,…but I digress.
At first, the loss to Indy seemed like perhaps the most frustrating game I’ve watched in all my years of Broncos worship. It was Tim Lynch who reminded me of the Jacksonville playoff debacle, so I moved this game squarely into undisputed 2nd place— IMO, of course. I couldn’t put my finger on it, because its not like I had the whole world riding on a Broncos victory. I saw their chances as 50-50 at best and was fully prepared to move onto Raider week with an darn-it attitude. Why this one bugged me so much, I didn’t really know.
But as I got to thinking about it, it occured to me that the team seems to struggle to execute when it matters the most. One example is Orton looking brilliant right up to third and five and then hucking a fastball low and behind an open guy. Why does he hit that on 2 and 10 with impunity, and then miss it with momentum and the game in balance? How does the ponderous Mike Hart— who Indy would never really want on the field is circumstance didn’t dictate it— squirt through a bevy of prospective tacklers to convert a crucial third down? Its the unforced errors and crucial-moment lapses in execution that are holding this team back. They simply don’t have ‘it’ yet. Again, I don’t mean that as a negative, but rather as a personal acceptance that they just aren’t quite there yet.
I think it comes down to time in system. Its not a specific personnel issue as much as it is a matter of the comfort 11 guys feel playing with the other 10. Its Kyle Orton believing the interior will hold up long enough to set his feet; or that Eddie or BM will curl that route a specific way 9 out of 10 times. Its a linebacker not getting tense because he knows a S or another LB has his six. Its about playing carefree ball because you’re comfortable that the game doesn’t hang in the balance of you specifically making a play. That doesn’t happen in a vacuum…it takes time. I don’t think they are there yet.
When they get there, watch out. These guys are going to be good.
Thanks T.J. You’ve opened up a whole new world on how to grasp the game for a guy that never thought much about numbers.
The selfish, they're all standing in line
Faithing and hoping to buy themselves time
Me, I figure as each breath goes by
I only own my mind-- Pearl Jam, "I am Mine"
by PredominantlyOrange on Dec 16, 2009 1:13 PM MST reply actions
Orange, it's interesting you mention this
Tim and John and Emmett can tell you I was feeling the same way. I was actually at that Jacksonville game of which you speak. I remember Shannon Sharpe saying that it would set the organization back years. Of course, we know what happened later!
But I agree with you on this. I was crushed. Probably because of watching Indy beat Denver down each and every year for the last 7 years (perception, granted). Your description of opportunism is as good as I have heard. In Spanish, they call this no sé que (I don´t know what), and it´s the difference between the Lions and teams like the Steelers.
Steve (HT) has told me (not to put words into his mouth) that the difference between the Colts , Pats, Steelers, and others is that they run their systems to perfection. I agree with this. And it speaks to your comments as well. If this system is in place for 4-5 years, the drafts are tailored to the system, and the players get completely comfortable in the system, then they are going to play with the opportunism of which you speak. I have no stat for this!
Although it does make me wonder about teams that change coaches every 3-4 years. Does this revolving door and not allowing a system to take hold help create losing?
"But I hate the way our identity has changed..Kyle Orton might not be the flashiest quarterback, but the guy is a winner, and that formula worked for us. I hate to say it, but that’s the truth." --Brian Urlacher
I wish they had an 'opportunism' stat.
One that showed teams consistently making the play that is there. It’d be easier to get straight up beat than to watch them make the tiny errors that turn a successful play into a failure.
I don’t know if that makes sense, but it wasn’t like Indy flat out kicked their butt, or that they flat out flopped. It was just that Indy could follow all the way through and that Denver struggles to do the same— even when the play is there to be made.
Now I’m just rambling….
The selfish, they're all standing in line
Faithing and hoping to buy themselves time
Me, I figure as each breath goes by
I only own my mind-- Pearl Jam, "I am Mine"
by PredominantlyOrange on Dec 16, 2009 2:39 PM MST up reply actions
On the coaching changes...
I think it could contribute to some teams’ chronic woes. But part of that is the same as player personnel— some guys have it or they don’t, and their system and style will never be successful.
The selfish, they're all standing in line
Faithing and hoping to buy themselves time
Me, I figure as each breath goes by
I only own my mind-- Pearl Jam, "I am Mine"
by PredominantlyOrange on Dec 16, 2009 3:00 PM MST up reply actions
to the coaching revolving door question.
PDO has a good point some guys have it others don’t. But, look at Detroit the issue there went beyond the HC and up to the front office Millen was an idiot GM is you ask me. His choices ensured the Lions wouldn’t be successful. Now the same issue has happened in Cleveland. The GM has a key role in helping build a successful team, it’s his responsibility to give the HC and his staff the tools (players) they need to run their system. Then and only then can they even begin to get a team where it needs to be.
Denver appears to have a great GM who works with his HC to get what he needs. Long term this will help to keep the Broncos successful for some time.
"A great pleasure in life is doing what people say you cannot do" Walter Gagenot
"Hope sees the invisible, feels the intangible and achieves the impossible."
Another case study in idiocy is KC.
There they allow Peterson and Edwards to adopt the the tear-it-all-the-way-down and rebuild philosophy, then cut the architects off at the knees mid-process. THEN they bring in a guy that is going to make changes (Patriot systems) that make most of the Peterson-Edwards pieces totally obsolete. The Hunt family has a great rep, but you have to wonder what they were thinking on that one. Now KC fans— who probably brought the pressure to get the Hunts to behave irrationally in the first place— have at least an extra few years of misery ahead of them. Add to that the fact that the new ‘savior’ was a hardly a total power GM where he made his reputation, and it could be years before the Chiefs ever find their way again.
The selfish, they're all standing in line
Faithing and hoping to buy themselves time
Me, I figure as each breath goes by
I only own my mind-- Pearl Jam, "I am Mine"
by PredominantlyOrange on Dec 16, 2009 3:22 PM MST up reply actions
Good point PDO
It’s starting to look that way for the Bucs in Tampa as well.
"A great pleasure in life is doing what people say you cannot do" Walter Gagenot
"Hope sees the invisible, feels the intangible and achieves the impossible."
PO, good call, this was essentially my point, but I could not think of a good example...
….this is why you won’t see the Steelers come after Tomlin, even if he has two bad years in a row…Cleveland seems read to pull the trigger yet again as well.
"But I hate the way our identity has changed..Kyle Orton might not be the flashiest quarterback, but the guy is a winner, and that formula worked for us. I hate to say it, but that’s the truth." --Brian Urlacher
Its hard
Sometimes when hiring people you make mistakes. Sometimes a guy needs some time to get good at his job while at other times it is in your best interest to admit a mistake and make a change as soon as possible. Cleveland maybe should have given people a break in the past but at present I think it would be best to make a change as soon as possible.
Milan should have been fired after his first month but giving him a chance has set the organization back and that is Detroit’s problem is they give people to much of a break. If they do get a good GM and a good coach then they’ll be good for a long time.
... if you have a belief, you will tend to find things that support it. But if you have a prejudice, you’ll move heaven and earth to maintain it. BroncoBear
Awesome Post and rec'd
Lebowski, I just REALLY love your writing style. Don’t get me wrong, I know it is a lot of work to look all those stats up and crunch them down to share with us. But anyone could do that with sufficent time and motivation. What I really love is the way you write, like the funny little ways you manage to get digs in on the Faiders in this column every week, and incorporating themes (Def Lepard, etc.), funny metaphors and all the little things you do that make your writing a joy to read. Keep it up Dude!
:-)
Jeff Zepp, Kittredge CO USA
Jeff, I appreciate this a lot. My goal was to try and make stats funny enough to be interesting.
In the offseason, I plan to do some more advanced stuff, but now, simply trying to get people who hate stats to at least give them a “roll in the hay.”
"But I hate the way our identity has changed..Kyle Orton might not be the flashiest quarterback, but the guy is a winner, and that formula worked for us. I hate to say it, but that’s the truth." --Brian Urlacher
Sorry I Had To Create A New Account
but I’m back GO BRONCOS!!!
Brad James
by the new Bradfather on Dec 16, 2009 3:23 PM MST reply actions
Don't scare us like that, man! Is this like Terminator 2?
Or Breakin’ 2: Electric Boogaloo
how about: The New Bradfather: 75% Stronger. 50% Bolder. And Mean as Hell!
"But I hate the way our identity has changed..Kyle Orton might not be the flashiest quarterback, but the guy is a winner, and that formula worked for us. I hate to say it, but that’s the truth." --Brian Urlacher
In scarier news, Chris Henry in bad accident
Apparently, according to Bengals blog. Scary. Thoughts and prayers to him…
There's no need to fear, Underdog is here! / Broncos/Dodgers fan in Niners/Raiders/Giants country, and damned proud of it.
Posession turnovers are a great add to the stats
and they tell a more complete story about the game.
But how do you compile the data? Simply by the number of possesion turnovers? I worry about the fourth down attempt. Seem like not making first down on third and then not making it again on fourth is worst than punting on third for a turnover.
In shorter words, should fourth down fails caount as TWO?
Great stuff TJ
Character may be manifested in the great moments but it is made in the small ones -- Philip Brooks
thanks, Kap, keep hatin'...this is the week for it...
"But I hate the way our identity has changed..Kyle Orton might not be the flashiest quarterback, but the guy is a winner, and that formula worked for us. I hate to say it, but that’s the truth." --Brian Urlacher
thanks, regarding your thoughts
I don’t think it should be worth 2 TOs because it accomplishes the same as the other turnovers….in fact, the interception and fumble,it could be argued are slightly worse because of the potential for the score…the 4th down simply changes possession…but your thoughts are well taken, my friend…
"But I hate the way our identity has changed..Kyle Orton might not be the flashiest quarterback, but the guy is a winner, and that formula worked for us. I hate to say it, but that’s the truth." --Brian Urlacher
Nice post, TJ. After working with clients all day, my brain isn't giving sufficient comprehension to your labors.
But I applaud your diligence nonetheless.
I am hoping our guys are not looking past the faders. If Charlie Frye feels comfortable in the offense and they get into a rhythm, look out. Our D will most likely keep him uncomfortable all day – but there is an explosiveness there that can be trouble.
Nice work. Thanks for your time and energy, TJ.
No problem Blackknigh
Perhaps next week, I’ll pull back on the numbers a bit.
"But I hate the way our identity has changed..Kyle Orton might not be the flashiest quarterback, but the guy is a winner, and that formula worked for us. I hate to say it, but that’s the truth." --Brian Urlacher
TJ, it makes you wonder just how important Spencer Larsen has become to this team...
I wonder with Spencer at fullback (instead of side-lined) if Hillis could have picked up a couple of those 3rd and 4th and shorts. I liked the way we performed against Indy. In fact I’m thinking I would (after we get buy the wild card game) face Indy than San Diego.
Guardian of the Gate to La La Land!
Gonsoulin, Taylor, Little, Wright, Gradishar, Atwater, Davis, and Sharpe...
Why are they not in the Hall...I just don't understand.
MIke,
"But I hate the way our identity has changed..Kyle Orton might not be the flashiest quarterback, but the guy is a winner, and that formula worked for us. I hate to say it, but that’s the truth." --Brian Urlacher
I look forward to either one of them. I think Denver would enjoy getting some revenge on both.
"But I hate the way our identity has changed..Kyle Orton might not be the flashiest quarterback, but the guy is a winner, and that formula worked for us. I hate to say it, but that’s the truth." --Brian Urlacher
Agree
In fact I might take Larson off special teams because of his value in the running game.
... if you have a belief, you will tend to find things that support it. But if you have a prejudice, you’ll move heaven and earth to maintain it. BroncoBear
The dude's always hilarious
And informative! Thanks Dude.
I would like to see 2 TEs line up outside the tackle in order to help our 3rd down woes when attempting to run. A few PA passes could throw off opposing defenses as well, not to mention an occasional screen pass to a TE or #22.
What are your thoughts?
"All credibility, all good conscience, all evidence of truth come only from the senses." Friedrich Nietzsche
HP, first, thanks for reading, I know stats are not everyone's cup of tea...I am actually considering stepping them back a bit
My thoughts are close to yours. I actually thought we would see some of this in the Indy game, and was surprised that we didn’t use it, although getting down 21-0 sort of took these options off the table very quickly.
I would love for use to come out even in 3TE sets and Wild Horses in the playoffs on someone and surprise the hell out of them again. Because McDaniels uses shotgun so often, the play action isn’t as effective in this style of offense, although I really think we could unleash hell with PA using this 2TE or 3TE set.
I bet if we hadn’t been down 21-0 so quickly, we would have seen some of this….don’t you agree?
"But I hate the way our identity has changed..Kyle Orton might not be the flashiest quarterback, but the guy is a winner, and that formula worked for us. I hate to say it, but that’s the truth." --Brian Urlacher
What I believe is
Given how often we seem to find ourselves in short yardage situations, we need to go to our alternate arsenal of weapons: 2 or 3 TE sets, mixed with a healthy dose of screens to a FB or TE would certainly improve our conversion %.
Obviously, in those rare instances where Orton’s under center and a HB is in the backfield, we could then use the PA pass, assuming we’ve been running the ball relatively well up until that point.
And you’re always welcome as far as reading your posts. I’m a numbers guy, so by all means, do not lose your mind now and start scaling back on these great stats!
"All credibility, all good conscience, all evidence of truth come only from the senses." Friedrich Nietzsche
To answer your last quesion though
We could’ve seen it either in the 1st Qtr when we were down 7-0 or in the 4 Qtr, when we were back in it 21-16. Maybe next time.
"All credibility, all good conscience, all evidence of truth come only from the senses." Friedrich Nietzsche
We've done that, Hp
It was a few weeks back – Pittsburgh, for one example. I’ve seen it several times, but it’s not the old 2 TE power formation with a TE at each tackle. There’s more movement, more options for having Hochstein in as an extra tackle, Larsen up to the strongside with a TE just in front of him.
It’s a formation that I also like. We seemed to have trouble executing it that day – perhaps they don’t quite have it down.
Moreno/Buckhalter in '09
Thanks for that, Bear
I guess based on McDs moves in the offseason, we’ll find out if our lack of 3rd down execution has been due to not being a good fit for the system or lack of execution.
If some of the household names are not with us for 2010, we can then assume it’s because of not having “the right stuff.”
"All credibility, all good conscience, all evidence of truth come only from the senses." Friedrich Nietzsche
Confusing
The only stats that are confusing to me is when you consider TO ties. If you count them as wins it skews the stats or if you count them as losses it skews the stats. I think you should leave that out or count less teams as if the tied games weren’t played for that stat.
... if you have a belief, you will tend to find things that support it. But if you have a prejudice, you’ll move heaven and earth to maintain it. BroncoBear
3nS, honestly, I agree with this and started to seperate out at the game level at about week 5
I need to separate the cumulative number also…..it’s just utter laziness on my part that has gotten the better of me.
"But I hate the way our identity has changed..Kyle Orton might not be the flashiest quarterback, but the guy is a winner, and that formula worked for us. I hate to say it, but that’s the truth." --Brian Urlacher
Great job dude!
Those that cant coach, compete!
Failing to plan is planning to fail.
All I want is 53 Rod Smiths. Is that asking too much????
"Peyton Hillis didn’t rip the sleeves off his jersey, they flew off out of fear."
Calijoefornia.

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