Horse Tracks 12/21/09 - Broncos fall to Raiders; Chargers clinch fourth straight AFC West Title

It's pretty simple, folks. You give up 241 yards rushing, you lose to anyone. Give up 241 to the 2009 Raiders, you don't deserve to be in the playoffs are not a very good team. You lose to the 2009 Raiders at home in something close to a must-win situation, you don't deserve to be in the playoffs are not a very good team. The offensive and defensive lines were terrible - and as we all know, the game is won and lost in the trenches. For what it's worth, I thought the decision to kick that last field goal instead of going for the kill was a terrible one. Yes, the defense should have been able to prevent a touchdown; but you've got a chance to end the game.
The Broncos last made the playoffs in 2005, a season in which they went 8-0 at home. Since then, they have lost home games to teams like the 49ers in 2006 (to miss the playoffs), the 5-11 Jags and Raiders and the 7-9 Bills last year, and yesterday to the 5-9 Raiders. If you can't beat teams like that at home, you don't deserve to be in the playoffs are not a very good team, and that is precisely why the Broncos have failed to make the postseason for the past three seasons. I realize that every other playoff-bubble team has some ugly losses on their ledgers, but that really doesn't make yesterday any less hideous for Denver.
DB - Broncos Highlights - Video
DB - Raiders Postgame: Report - Broncos TV
DB - Raiders Postgame: McDaniels - Broncos TV
NFL - Oakland Raiders 20 at Denver Broncos 19 - Box Score
DPP - Surprising drive deflates defense's day - Lindsay Jones
DPP - Broncos widen race for AFC wild card - Mike Klis
NYT - N.F.L. Acknowledges Long-Term Concussion Effects - Alan Schwarz
It's about time.
DB - Raiders Postgame: Orton - Broncos TV
DB - Painfully Close - Gray Caldwell
DB - Holding Their Own - Zach Eisendrath
DPP - Russell gives Raiders lift - Irv Moss
DPP - Broncos fall back into playoff pack - Woody Paige
DPP - Familiar fade pattern for Broncos - Dave Krieger
DPP - Denver walking a fine line in playoff picture
"Royal left with a neck injury he suffered on a third-quarter catch. Cornerback Champ Bailey briefly left the game with what appeared to be a stinger late in the third quarter."
DPP - Broncos inability to score from 2-yard-line helps Raiders - Jeff Legwold
DPP - Broncos leave too many points on doorstep - Mike Klis
"It's been hurting us all year," Broncos receiver Brandon Marshall said. "Our offense, we've just been mediocre, if that."
DPP - Raiders run ragged over Broncos - Jim Armstrong
CSG - Broncos grounded by Raiders - Frank Schwab
CSG - Broncos don't deserve to reach playoffs - David Ramsey
"On the final drive, Russell faced a second-and-23 and a fourth-and-10, and the Broncos allowed him to escape."
AP - Raiders Stun Broncos For Dramatic 4th Quarter Win - Arnie Stapleton
Raiders News
SFC - JaMarcus Russell, Raiders fly high in win over Denver - Steve Corkran
SFC - Final drive a 'huge step' for Russell - David White
SFC - Game review - David White
SFC - Given a chance, Bush emerges as Raiders' top option - David White
SFC - Frye still the starter, that is, if he's healthy - David White
OT - JaMarcus Russell's heroics don't close QB argument - Gary Peterson
OT - Raiders notebook: Running back Michael Bush's big game puts him back in favor - Steve Corkran
OT - Oakland Raiders stun Broncos on JaMarcus Russell's TD pass with 35 seconds left - Steve Corkran
OT - Postgame wrap - Jerry McDonald
NFL Results
NFL - Cincinnati Bengals 24 at San Diego Chargers 27
NFL - Cleveland Browns 41 at Kansas City Chiefs 34
NFL - New England Patriots 17 at Buffalo Bills 10
NFL - Atlanta Falcons 10 at New York Jets 7
NFL - Houston Texans 16 at St. Louis Rams 13
NFL - Miami Dolphins 24 at Tennessee Titans 27
NFL - Arizona Cardinals 31 at Detroit Lions 24
NFL - Chicago Bears 7 at Baltimore Ravens 31
NFL - Tampa Bay Buccaneers 24 at Seattle Seahawks 7
NFL - San Francisco 49ers 13 at Philadelphia Eagles 27
NFL - Green Bay Packers 36 at Pittsburgh Steelers 37
NFL - Minnesota Vikings 7 at Carolina Panthers 26
AFC West
NFL - In unordinary circumstances, Chargers show they're extraordinary - Vic Carucci
SDUT - Kaeding’s kick, Broncos loss give Chargers division title - Kevin Acee
SDUT - Drama? Check. Panic? Never. - Nick Canepa
SDUT - This clutch boot not a surprise - Tim Sullivan
SDUT - Defense: Big plays and big stops - Kevin Acee
SDUT - Bolts on board when Rivers puts new spin on plans - Chris Jenkins
SDUT - It’s not only about Ochocinco - Tod Leonard
SDUT - Mruczkowski’s season appears to be finished - Kevin Acee
KCS - Chiefs tough to watch in a 41-34 loss to Browns - Kent Babb
KCS - Why should the Chiefs bring Haley back? - Jason Whitlock
KCS - Charles’ big game gets overshadowed - Adam Teicher
KCS - Dropped passes continue to plague KC receivers - Adam Teicher
KCS - Cribbs, Harrison run wild for Browns - Kent Babb
KCS - Chiefs buzz | Grigsby exits Chiefs broadcast booth for final time - Adam Teicher
NFL News
NFL - Browns RB Harrison breaks Jim Brown's franchise rushing record
NFL Opinion
SI - The latest Bronco demise and more Snap Judgments - Don Banks
"Never mind what the Dallas Cowboys have done in the season's final month in recent years. The Broncos can match them loss for excruciating loss in December."
ESPN - Uphill climb for 7-7 teams; Eagles provide clarity - John Clayton
CBS - Week 15 Judgements: Broncos bringing back painful memories - Clark Judge
NFL - Steelers get offense on track in crucial, thrilling win - Bucky Brooks
FOX - Roethlisberger saves Tomlin from himself - Alex Marvez
NFL - AFC's 7-7 logjam could make for interesting final two weeks - Steve Wyche
Y! - Ravens poised for another 'wild' playoff run - Charles Robinson
SN - Deflating losses put Broncos, Dolphins and Jets in precarious positions - Clifton Brown
SN - Week 15 Checkdown: Surprises cloud fortunes for playoff teams - Vinnie Iyer
FH - Lovie Smith's Job Is on the Line - Michael David Smith
FH - History Shows Losing Late Can Help - Dave Goldberg
FOX - Titans have bright future - Jimmy Johnson
CBS - Bengals deserve praise for effort after tragic week - Clark Judge
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87 comments
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Comments
I just don't understand
all the posters saying Denver doesn’t deserve the playoffs. If they make the playoffs then they deserve to be there because they did better than the teams that didn’t. Period!
I have seen several teams run through our D like someone held the door open for them and this has been one of our biggest issues.
The Raiders have been on a run and winning, against some playoff teams, some playoff hopefuls like us. Ok, it is a division game, a rival and that makes it sting. We have played worse games this year. This Bronco team keeps playing to the last second of the game, they have shown that the last two weeks and I am proud of them for not giving up.
They have a lot of work to do to become a good team, I cannot say they are a better team than last year but then, no one expected them to be given all the changes. We should all be praising the success they have had and allow them to stumble, forgive them their trials no matter who it is against. This year is the first year of a new Broncos team and I say it has been GREAT to see and I have high hopes for our future.
Opinions are like......, Well anyway, this is mine.
by Sean in Pa. on Dec 21, 2009 5:43 AM MST reply actions 8 recs
+1
-Richee
-Measure your performance against your best competitors and consider how you can use it to beat them the next time!
-Your concious mind can only hold one thought at a time, positive or negative. Which is it going to be???
by BroncoSense72 on Dec 21, 2009 6:22 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Great comment +1
I would hope you would support who we are. Not, who we are not. Coach Norman Dale "Hoosiers"
by dmitchell624 on Dec 21, 2009 6:33 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs
For what it's worth
If Frye or Gradkowski or anybody besides JaMarcus Russell is playing earlier this season, the Chargers lose at least one of their games to Oakland. Even when Russell went out for 2-3 plays in the first game Gradkowski came out shredding the Chargers D. It’s not a bad team.
"I did not invent the wheel, I was the crooked spoke adjacent." - Aesop Rock
by John Gennaro on Dec 21, 2009 7:09 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs
I agree
that the Raiders aren’t a bad team. It’s amazing with the bad first round choices they’ve made (Russell, McFadden, Heyward-Bey) that they have played some good games this year. And considering that their O line was littered with ex-Broncos yesterday (Cornell Green, Cooper Carlisle, and Erik Pears) and that their best receiver , Zach Miller, missed the game, I think the Raiders could be very good next year with Gradkowski at QB.
We will now discuss in a little more detail the Struggle for Existence.
Charles Darwin. (The Origin Of Species)
by bradley on Dec 21, 2009 8:27 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Obviously, if they make it they make it
I’m not suggesting the Broncos should forfeit a playoff appearance should they get one. I didn’t write anything about them quitting, or about this being a lost year. I am pleased with the progress from 2008 to 2009, and I have high hopes for them next year and beyond.
formerly known around these parts as nycbroncosfan
by Douglas A. Lee on Dec 21, 2009 7:47 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Doug
I like you guys here at MHR and I have a lot of respect for the work you do. That just makes it that much more disappointing to see your negativity. You stated twice in your article that the Broncos don’t deserve to be in the playoffs… that has yet to be seen in my opinion. Not to mention that “deserving” it has no bearing on reality. They will make it based on what they accomplish as a football team. No one will make a decision to let them in, they will earn it or they won’t. If they do in fact make a playoff berth, well, that will be beyond my wildest imaginings prior to this season.
Opinions are like......, Well anyway, this is mine.
by Sean in Pa. on Dec 21, 2009 8:08 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs
I hear you, Sean
Perhaps I was a bit off the mark with my wording. After studying everyone’s schedules, it does look to me like the Broncos will make the playoffs this year. I won’t call it “backing in” or anything like that, unless they lose to the Chefs in doing so.
What I should have written is that the Broncos just aren’t very good right now. A good team doesn’t give up 241 yards rushing to the Raiders.
formerly known around these parts as nycbroncosfan
by Douglas A. Lee on Dec 21, 2009 8:14 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Sadly
I have to agree. The Broncos are not playing very good football right now! I have come to the only conclusion that I can, they are bagging the season. I don’t mean that in a negative way (though how can it not be). There is no reason to keep trying the same thing over and over again when it is not working unless you just don’t want to show your next move (meaning next season).
I mentioned Reeves in another post. I used to go crazy with his calling the same lame plays when they weren’t working. The only thing we had then was Elway to pull our a$$es out of the fire. Please, please McD, have a plan!!
Opinions are like......, Well anyway, this is mine.
by Sean in Pa. on Dec 21, 2009 8:23 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs
LOL
Nice! I love your editing and I can’t even count. Three times!! OMG!! You are a class act Mr. Douglass A. Lee
Opinions are like......, Well anyway, this is mine.
by Sean in Pa. on Dec 21, 2009 8:32 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe I'm in too much of a sour mood and shouldn't be posting....
….but does the future look very bright? How can we say that for certainty?
Ayers, Knowshon, Ellis, Quinn. Are all these guys going to be above average to great players? They need to be if that bright future concept is to come to fruition. If they turn out more like Moss or Crowder….I shudder to think of how long this would set the team back. I’ll give Knowshon a pass right now because he seems to be wearing down with McD stubbornly playing “his guy” all the time. But even then, is all that talent they saw coming out of Georgia going to definitely translate to the NFL. Jury’s still out.
And what’s going to happen with all the free agents? Will Bowlen spend the money to keep Doom, Marshall, Orton, Kuper and Scheffler? How about even 4 of those guys? 3?
by Gristle McThornbody on Dec 21, 2009 8:17 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Who's Ellis?
formerly known around these parts as nycbroncosfan
by Douglas A. Lee on Dec 21, 2009 8:20 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs
The closest I can guess is Alphonso? =)
by Todd Jewell on Dec 21, 2009 8:24 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Smith! Sorry…duh….long Monday already.
by Gristle McThornbody on Dec 21, 2009 8:27 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs
You Were Thinking of LaPhonos Ellis
who did play for the Nuggets many years ago.
Brad James
by the new Bradfather on Dec 21, 2009 9:02 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Ellis the Raider?
And he played a great game, too.
no goats, no glory.
by Colinski on Dec 21, 2009 12:27 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
You got it, that’s exactly who I was thinking of. Brain fart.
by Gristle McThornbody on Dec 21, 2009 12:29 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
comment to post above
I don’t see any real problems with the talent we’ve brought aboard. It’s a learning experience for them and it takes time. Neither Crowder nor Moss was a true bust in the sense of being mis-evaluated, which is what people imply even though they may be unaware that they’re doing so.
Crowder has done well with Tampa Bay but he wasn’t a fit in a 3-4. Moss is what he always was — a speed rusher. It’s the toughest position to predict but it has tremendous value because of its impact to the game. He’s not a great fit for OLB34 so he’s back at the bottom of the depth chart again re-learning. Dumervil and Ayers are an obstacle to his ascension, and he’d be a valued commodity for other teams (probably 4-3 teams in need of pass rushing specialists) if he hit the market, although not quite as high as where he was drafted by us.
Playing assignment football is not a recipe for gaining individual accolades early in one’s career. There aren’t many positions that actually do have game metrics that demonstrate the player’s success. Ballhandlers have them, and they can contribute earlier, which is often why they’re drafted since they can come in and contribute immediately.
None of the players we drafted in the last draft has shown himself to be something other than what we thought they were. We’re not talking about a physical failure but a long learning curve that’s expected — under the best of circumstances — to take years. People continually conflate mental mistakes with inadequate physical talent, but the complexity of the scheme is a large part of why it works so well. It confuses the other team, and it often confuses our own players as well, particularly rookies.
We’re still at the beginning stage of learning our own offense. Oddly, defenses can be turned around quickly and the re-shuffling that occurs with scheme change (provided there is talent) can result in an immediate improvement. That same re-shuffling hurts the offense, IMO, since the level of unspoken communication and mutual familiarity is missing. Jon Bena addressed this issue around the beginning of the season, and I strongly agree with his basic point that the offense would be worse than we expected while the defense would be better.
Our 2009 draftees are going to have to continue to progress up the learning curve. The appropriate metaphor is apprenticeship rather the speculative ‘boom/bust’ metaphor. There’s still a lot for them to learn before they’ll feel comfortable handling the complexity of their task.
no goats, no glory.
by Colinski on Dec 21, 2009 1:11 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Amen Sean
This is not the BCS (thank the Lord of Hosts for that!) If the Broncos make the playoffs, we’ll have EARNED it and that’s what I want. I hope that we play to our full potential and beat the Eagles and Chiefs. We’ve got a lot of work to do but the last I checked, we’re firmly in the wild card at this juncture. Let’s stay there.
Brad James
by the new Bradfather on Dec 21, 2009 5:49 AM MST reply actions 0 recs
This was a TERRIBLE effort....good teams put bad teams away. Good teams go to play offs....I am sorry, we are not a good team and dont deserve to be there. I agree with Doug. Bad ine play, bad coaching, bad play calling and bad execution.
This is on everyone.
Why is it a BUM like me can call EVERY play McD will run while listening to RADIO…wonder what professional coaches are doing with this information.
We are a team devoid of ideas and creativity, and McD is hamstringing, bot culturing, the plauers, especially on the offensive side of the ball.
The mediocroty of out offense is damn right embarassing!
Those that cant coach, compete!
Failing to plan is planning to fail.
All I want is 53 Rod Smiths. Is that asking too much????
"Peyton Hillis didn’t rip the sleeves off his jersey, they flew off out of fear."
Calijoefornia.
by boydy2669 on Dec 21, 2009 5:56 AM MST reply actions 0 recs
For what it’s worth, I thought the decision to kick that last field goal instead of going for the kill was a terrible one. Yes, the defense should have been able to prevent a touchdown; but you’ve got a chance to end the game.
I thought this too — but you have to look at this in another way. SeBas can kick it from anywhere so if they get stopped, a tie is almost for sure. You put the pressure on Oakland to score a TD on you with Jaba the Hut back there. That’s the better play, 100% of the time. Yes it didn’t work out, but it’s the right call.
The fact is they should have scored on the 1st 3 downs, and if they want to do a fade, do it with Marshall not Sheffler. But I’d say most Bronco fans knew we weren’t going to score the moment Stokley got tackled.
by hallandnash on Dec 21, 2009 6:32 AM MST reply actions 0 recs
I agree with this as well but Ive been saying for the last few weeks that we have the HOTTEST receiver in the league and both he and our QB have been playing very well and yet we go to the struggling rookie RB for key plays time and time again .
We are not a running team we are a passing team and unless we accept that fact and soon this season will be over.
We cannot play POWER FOOTBALL and be successful its just not what the team is built for right now . Our playcalling in the redzone is soo predictable if we dont have some misdirection it usually does not work .
Against the Giants we lineup in a bunch formation and everyone thinks we are going to the corner and Stoke sneaks underneath for the td and against the Chiefs Orton runs to the the right and throws back the other way to the TE Graham and he runs in for the td . We have speed and skill and we need to use it more.
by Hoopforia on Dec 21, 2009 7:58 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Assuming we don’t give up some gigantic sack or a big INT return, I’m figuring a failure to convert means giving Oakland the ball at their own 3-yard line down a field goal. I think calling a tie “almost for sure” in that scenario is reaching a bit.
formerly known around these parts as nycbroncosfan
by Douglas A. Lee on Dec 21, 2009 8:07 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Playing not to lose
This is exact same scenario that Giants lost to SD earlier this year: up by 3, kick a FG on 4th & short to go up by 6 and wait for the opponent to kill you.
by si_ice on Dec 21, 2009 8:31 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs
What? No one likes backing into the playoffs?
Who doesn’t like starting 6-0 and finishing 3-7? Or even 4-6 if we are lucky.
I’d love to back into the playoffs like the KC Chiefs used to do.
Verbose in style, dispersion of thought, procrastination in life.
The guy formerly known as ZAPPA
by Tim Lynch on Dec 21, 2009 7:15 AM MST reply actions 0 recs
Thanks Doug.
Real Power, comes with the realization that One cannot change the Moment;
only ones perception of it: Atitude! JQM
by UB3 on Dec 21, 2009 7:16 AM MST reply actions 0 recs
The 2009 Broncos are just like 2008 Jay Culter. Start strong and regress as the season wears on.
Our offense is still good at getting hallow yards with very few points to show for it. As our players learned the system, got comfortable with each other and the coaches, we got worse. That does not bode well for 2010. Our 2nd place schedule will bring the Ravens/Miami while San Diego gets Cincy and New England.
McFGs play calling shows he has a LONG LONG way to go as a coach. This has not been a bad or disappointing season, but it has not been a good one either. If we finish 9-7, it’s just more of the same mediocre stuff with a late season fade that got Shanny fired. No improvement.
This is my favorite website.
by McGeorge on Dec 21, 2009 7:21 AM MST reply actions 0 recs
Before this season started, many people weren’t expecting year 1 improvement. They were expecting 5 wins or less this year, and a little improvement each of the following years. I know it’s hard to go back to that, but you can’t compare McD’s Year 1 with Shanahan’s final year. It’s not fair to Josh.
"I did not invent the wheel, I was the crooked spoke adjacent." - Aesop Rock
by John Gennaro on Dec 21, 2009 7:29 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs
You are strangely tolerable today — what happened? =)
A truth can only be expressed and enveloped in words if it is one-sided. Everything that is thought and expressed in words is one-sided, only half the truth; it all lacks totality, completeness, unity.
by Todd Jewell on Dec 21, 2009 7:32 AM MST up reply actions 1 recs
The improvement is in potential
We do not know what adjustments McD will make in the off-season. I too am confused by his play calling. Maybe he just does not have a handle on how to adjust, perhaps he is smarter than we think and he is not willing to let other teams see what adjustments he will make for next season. At this point, he is in a no lose situation. A better record than anyone was expecting, solid players in several positions and no where to go but up.
I sincerely hope you are wrong McGeorge on your estimation of the 2010 season, I do believe you are wrong. McD has shown some inteligence and I will just have to believe for now that he has a plan. I would not want other teams to see what I plan to do to fix all this with only a few games to go and an almost assured early exit from the playoffs. Why not wait, get through the draft, sign your FA’s and then get to work. You now know what worked, what didn’t work and you can get to work.
I can see no reason to doubt that this is the plan
Opinions are like......, Well anyway, this is mine.
by Sean in Pa. on Dec 21, 2009 7:32 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Sad but true
As our players learned the system, got comfortable with each other and the coaches, we got worse.
We will now discuss in a little more detail the Struggle for Existence.
Charles Darwin. (The Origin Of Species)
by bradley on Dec 21, 2009 8:32 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Of course he has a long way to go as a HC...
2009 is his first year as an NFL head coach. It’s shocking to me that anyone would expect someone in any field to come in and be elite at anything in their first year in doing anything. If anything, he’s done an exceptional job thus far, and you’re right, he has a long way to go, which is a good thing.
As for the play calling, I thought it was fine yesterday. Let’s take a look at the plays during the four trips to the RZ yesterday:
First trip: Okay, the Iron Clady screen probably not the coach’s finest hour. All I could think about was Horvil Tiki lobbying for the Iron Clady to carry the rock last year down the stretch, I digress. After that it was a sack, followed by a WR screen to Eddie that was blown up.
Second trip: Start off with a 6yrd run on first down by Lamont Jordan. Then a quick snap QB draw by Orton, then you had a third and three run to KM that went nowhere.
Third trip: No runs here. On first down KO throws it away, on second down he hits the Beast over the middle where he dominated all day.
Fourth trip: first down was a roll-out pass play designed to go to Marshall that KO, again, smartly threw away. Second down a KM run to the right, where Kuper and Polumbus got blown up (like they did all game). Third down, they spread Scheffler out against LB, which has been very effective in the past, they just missed it.
That doesn’t seem like bad play calling to me. I forgive the Tackle screen and the quick QB draw. When you’re struggling badly in the RZ I like to see the coach take some chances, change things up a bit. I guess you could argue that he should completely abandon the run and only throw it down there. Didn’t we hate Bates for that last year? Look, the running game is in complete disarray right now, but I don’t think you can just abandon it as a play caller.
I admittedly have only a barstool’s knowledge of football philosophy, but I’ve always viewed ineffective running plays as important. You have to make the other team respect it the run, and at the same time, have faith that you’re going to break it one time— after all, that’s what you’re paying these professionals to do. My last observation is that the third down play on the last trip is an example of great offensive coaching and play calling, like I said above, it just didn’t happen. I agree with Doug. Perhaps the biggest coaching error yesterday was not going for it on fourth down.
by ButteBronco on Dec 21, 2009 10:15 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs
McD definitely placed some blame on himself in his conversation after the game — hopefully he changes a few things because of it.
Polumbus looked awful yesterday.. he had looked serviceable to me, but yesterday he was “the suck”.
I don’t care if they put safeties over the top, we have to try to go deep. I have been somewhat ok with the short pass because it is there, it is proving to not be enough.
I think Moreno is worn out, he is used to it being bowl time and I think he is just out of gas. He needs a break and Lamont isn’t the answer. If Hillis isn’t the answer either, find someone on waivers. I know there haven’t been many holes, but 2.2 yards is too low as well as a ‘high’ of 8 yards.
If you can’t power run the way you are doing it, put both larsen and hillis in as fullbacks for Jordan / Moreno. Hell, put Ronald Fields back there to lead the way. DO SOMETHING different.
Why is Champ playing that far off receivers for QB’s who haven’t shown they can do anything?
Thank you Prater for doing your job.
Thank you Berger [except for your massive 12 yard shot] for doing your job.
Why are the players not more pissed off? Play like you care please.
Why did Ayers not try to tackle the RB who ran past him?
Bruton looked fine to me — didn’t really see any issues with him. Everyone says Carter played great — I didn’t really see that? He got lucky on the long ball and just happened to fall on a fumble? He looked ok, but ‘great’?
A truth can only be expressed and enveloped in words if it is one-sided. Everything that is thought and expressed in words is one-sided, only half the truth; it all lacks totality, completeness, unity.
by Todd Jewell on Dec 21, 2009 7:46 AM MST reply actions 0 recs
All I could do was laugh when I saw Lamont Jordan in there yesterday
and know that nothing was going to get accomplished when he’s in the game
by Bustafluff on Dec 21, 2009 9:04 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Better than before
We are a better team than the last few years. I thought we’d go 8-8 due to the changes and we most likely will be close to that. Are we playoff calibur? Not yet, the offensive line can’t block for our runners and the deffense can’t stop the run. That’s the place that needs the most work this offseason, the running games. We’ll see whats done in those areas to upgrade, maybe its better line coaches or other players but something must be changed if this team is to keep improving. We left alot of 3rd and 2’s, 3rd and 3’s on the field this year, not to mention goaline ineptitude.
Losses still hurt but they’re not as bad as the past few years. Just one mans opinion….
WE WILL DOMINATE!
by destamator on Dec 21, 2009 7:59 AM MST reply actions 0 recs
Thanks Doug
Character may be manifested in the great moments but it is made in the small ones -- Philip Brooks
by KaptainKirk on Dec 21, 2009 8:08 AM MST reply actions 0 recs
Play Calling
I’m regretting my ‘call’ before the season started that McD would bring some great play calling to the franchise – he’s proven me wrong. The play calling all the way around is suspect. Particularly short yardage.
We’ve proven over a number of games that we are not a bull-rush, push the d-line type of team. But, we’ve passed the ball pretty efficiently. So, when we get close and need the yards we abandon what has been working and force a square peg into a round hole by trying to run it. It is almost always a failure.
I’m not trying to be a Monday Morning QB. We’re just not getting the job done. It’s going to be a huge gut check going into Philly. We’ll see what we’re made of.
We absolutely can’t keep getting into the red zone and settling for field goals. We’re starting to look like last years team.
And, for goodness sakes, I don’t ever remember a Broncos team in the last 10 years that give up so many stupid penalties. False starts, incorrect alignments, more false starts, holding on long runs, tearing off helmets, pass interference (subjective, i know). Absolutely drive killers. We need more discipline.
OK – I’m done. I needed to vent. Personally, that was one of the most frustrating losses in recent memory.
"Nothing in this world can take the place of persistence. Talent will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful people with talent. Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb. Education will not; the world is full of educated derelicts. Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent. The slogan "press on" has solved and always will solve the problems of the human race" Calvin Coolidge
by SSMT on Dec 21, 2009 8:53 AM MST reply actions 0 recs
The bloom is off the rose.
We have lost our spark and the vets on our team see it You can’t play hard for 60 minutes if the offense is dragging you down. They are tired of McDaniels post game saying we did some good things but we made a lot of mistakes that we need to fix. They see that he won’t give Hillis a chance ( someone is going to pick up Hillis in the off season ) etc etc. Our season is over and there WAS no bigger McDaniels supporter than me but this is not Pop Warner it is the big league. Amen McManJoe
by McManJoe on Dec 21, 2009 9:00 AM MST reply actions 0 recs
So You Know What the Vets are thinking
and I guess they’re really pissed at McDaniels too. It’s okay to be angry, but rampant negativity such as this really agitates me.
Brad James
by the new Bradfather on Dec 21, 2009 9:01 AM MST up reply actions 1 recs
Rec'd old Bradfather
:-) So much negativity. I place it on the Raiders game but really……
Opinions are like......, Well anyway, this is mine.
by Sean in Pa. on Dec 21, 2009 9:03 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Sorry folks
But when your favorite team loses to the Raiders at home with Charlie Frye as their starting quarterback at a time when you need every win you can muster and look as pathetic as they did yesterday. Your going to recieve some negativity. Sorry folks.
by johnnyurrotten on Dec 21, 2009 10:18 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs
You're Right
There’s a difference between outright negativity and calling it as you see it. Yesterdays efforts – considering how important that game was – was borderline pathetic. We’ve missed the playoffs 3 years in a row, nobody expected us to do anything this year and to have the kind of opportunity we’ve been handed and to perform like that is inexcusable. That’s why I consider it one of the toughest losses I’ve had as a fan in a long time.
I’m actually quite positive on the team overall and long term. But poor, poor showing yesterday.
"Nothing in this world can take the place of persistence. Talent will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful people with talent. Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb. Education will not; the world is full of educated derelicts. Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent. The slogan "press on" has solved and always will solve the problems of the human race" Calvin Coolidge
by SSMT on Dec 21, 2009 10:53 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Charlie Frye
Did an amazing job as far as I saw. That man ran 10 to 15 yards backwards and still managed to throw the ball downfield.
The only reason they didn’t kick our asses worse was because of some awsome secondary play knocking the ball lose. I specifically remember one play that would have been a touchdown if Champ had not got his hand on the ball and knocked it out of the recievers hands. I know that happened at least one more time but don’t remember who the defender was but the Raiders player was laying on the ground hammering his fists in frustration…. Frye was a beast yesterday, I was very impressed!
Opinions are like......, Well anyway, this is mine.
by Sean in Pa. on Dec 21, 2009 1:11 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
I love you guys that say Hillis hasn't been given a chance.
He was the primary third down back the first couple weeks and had three or four dropped passes, a couple on huge third downs against Cinci. He was the featured goal line back the first couple weeks, and yes he got in once, but was largely ineffective and put the ball on the ground inside the five yard line against Oakland. He was given the chance to return kickoffs and fumbled against Cleveland. He was given a prominent role on ST coverage units and continually missed blocks and made dumb penalties. He was given the chance to be the starting fullback and again missed blocks and slipped-up in the backfield.
It’s also obvious to me that he’s not practicing well, otherwise Lamont Jordan wouldn’t be playing ahead of him. Anyone who argues that McD will only play his guys, I would point out that he started a guy off the PS ahead of the guy he traded a first round pick for in this year’s draft. Oh, and don’t bring up how he dominated late in the game against KC. KC isn’t very good to begin with and was gassed by the time Hillis got in there. Hell, I even heard people saying you had to discount everything Knowshon did that day because he was playing against “scrubs like Dorsey”.
So yes, Peyton was given many chances to play, he just wasn’t that good. He had a couple good games last year (NY & MIA) after three or four backs had already gone on IR, and I was excited as anyone to see what he would bring to this year’s club. I’ve been disappointed. Oh, and yes someone will pick him up next year because he will be cut, perhaps very soon. I wish him the best.
by ButteBronco on Dec 21, 2009 9:25 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs
good points
Everyone just loves Peyton, and I’ll admit that the few times ive wondered were Hillis is, I am wearing my orange colored glasses, because I know he is not the Hillis of 2008.
The problem is, the people who are above Hillis on the depth chart aint getting their job done either…
Bleeding Orange & Blue in The Netherlands
by BroncosNL on Dec 21, 2009 9:29 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Even if he made every mistake you say (but I don't remember the dropped passes against Cincy)
Are you suggesting that no one else has made similar or the same mistakes? Knowshon has not fumbled? Missed blocking assignments? Not even been looking for passes coming his way on critical plays?
I think the frustration for many of us is that there seems to be a special set of rules for different players.
- Nick
"We got 'em right where we want 'em!" - Keith Bishop, right before John Elway orchestrated The Drive. 'Nuff said.
by ncm42 on Dec 21, 2009 10:12 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs
BB didn’t say that Hillis made mistakes that nobody else did. His point is that Hillis has failed at every opportunity he’s been given this year, save garbage time versus the Chefs.
formerly known around these parts as nycbroncosfan
by Douglas A. Lee on Dec 21, 2009 10:30 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Understood.
But my question remains: Why not give him another chance or two to redeem himself? His opportunities have been severely limited.
- Nick
"We got 'em right where we want 'em!" - Keith Bishop, right before John Elway orchestrated The Drive. 'Nuff said.
by ncm42 on Dec 21, 2009 10:37 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs
As BB wrote, I think you’ve got to figure he’s not doing much in practice. I don’t for one second buy the notion that McDaniels is going to play “his guys” just for the sake of playing his guys. Nobody who makes decisions like that is ever successful at anything.
formerly known around these parts as nycbroncosfan
by Douglas A. Lee on Dec 21, 2009 10:41 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs
I hope you're right.
Because we saw last year that Hillis is talented. I just don’t see how it would hurt to use him to spell Moreno from time to time. It’s just a stark contrast to how McD was effusive in his praise for Hillis in training camp, and I think most of us who saw the potential in Hillis last year would love to know how he went from that kind of praise to being buried behind Lamont freaking Jordan on the depth chart.
- Nick
"We got 'em right where we want 'em!" - Keith Bishop, right before John Elway orchestrated The Drive. 'Nuff said.
by ncm42 on Dec 21, 2009 10:52 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Thanks Doug, that's exactly what I meant.
Plus, if you look at Jordan he played quite well yesterday— he averaged over five yards per carry I think. I actually wish he would have gotten more carries (Knowshon looks lost and worn down sometimes).
ncm42, I understand where you’re coming from, all I was saying is that Hillis was given a chance and he simply hasn’t performed very well. Sure Knowshon and Buck have made mistakes, but they have also shown flashes of brilliance each week. Plus, the hill is a lot steeper when you’re a backup. If you lose the training camp competition and are religated to backup status, your margin of error is much less than the guy who beat you out (Buck, Jordan), or the 1st round draft pick seeping with talent. When you get your chance and fail, it’s hard to get another.
by ButteBronco on Dec 21, 2009 11:41 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Jordan and Moreno
Moreno gained 42 yards on 19 carries, a 2.2 average. Jordan gained 27 on 5 carries, a 5.4 average. There’s a problem there.
We will now discuss in a little more detail the Struggle for Existence.
Charles Darwin. (The Origin Of Species)
by bradley on Dec 21, 2009 11:53 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, that was ugly.
Maybe I’m just a kool-aid drinker, but I really thought McD’s comments regarding the running game were very smart and dead on yesterday. The more I think of it, running the football has to be the most teamwork-intensive thing in all of sports. This notion is especially true in short yardage and in the RZ, when everyone knows it’s coming. There are so many moving parts and so many guys need to do their job right for it to work, that it’s hard to point the finger in one area. However, stat lines like that give good indication. Like I said above and in other posts today, I love Knowshon, but he looks beat. I really hope Buck can go against his former squad on Sunday.
by ButteBronco on Dec 21, 2009 12:01 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Can you see where I'm coming from?
It looks to me like we’re going to pound away with Knowshon, come hell or high water, even if the whole world can tell he looks beat. Just doesn’t make sense to not give someone else a chance, even if he has made some mistakes. After all, everyone is going to make them. I just wonder how someone who was a coach’s favorite in camp has fallen so far, so fast.
- Nick
"We got 'em right where we want 'em!" - Keith Bishop, right before John Elway orchestrated The Drive. 'Nuff said.
by ncm42 on Dec 21, 2009 12:24 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
ummm...never mind.
I just read where you said “ncm, I understand where you’re coming from.” So I guess that would roughly be a “Yes.” Jeez, I must have a case of the Mondays or something….
- Nick
"We got 'em right where we want 'em!" - Keith Bishop, right before John Elway orchestrated The Drive. 'Nuff said.
by ncm42 on Dec 21, 2009 12:25 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Where is the problem
with a 5.4 avg????
Opinions are like......, Well anyway, this is mine.
by Sean in Pa. on Dec 21, 2009 1:17 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
I think his point is
That Jordan played behind the same line as Moreno, but more than doubled Moreno’s YPC.
- Nick
"We got 'em right where we want 'em!" - Keith Bishop, right before John Elway orchestrated The Drive. 'Nuff said.
by ncm42 on Dec 21, 2009 1:17 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
ahh
ok, I see
Opinions are like......, Well anyway, this is mine.
by Sean in Pa. on Dec 21, 2009 1:18 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Yes, that's my point
Someone on another thread said that Jordan had a lead blocker on all his carries, while Moreno almost never did. I accept that as true, but then why didn’t McD use a lead blocker more??
We will now discuss in a little more detail the Struggle for Existence.
Charles Darwin. (The Origin Of Species)
by bradley on Dec 21, 2009 1:30 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Plus, short yardage
and goalline carries against nine man fronts are hard on the average even if you succeed an pick up first downs. I thought Jordan ran very hard yesterday and was one of the few bright spots. I don’t think his five carries and 5.4 yards per carry have any negative reflection on Moreno at all.
by ButteBronco on Dec 21, 2009 3:33 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
It does bother me too
That Hillis’s play against “KC scrubs in garbage time” counts for nothing. Classic no-win situation. If he doesn’t do well, he sucks. If he does do well, it doesn’t count because of who it’s against. Bottom line is he performed well in a results oriented business. He wore out the clock, and should’ve earned at least a few more carries with the effort he showed.
- Nick
"We got 'em right where we want 'em!" - Keith Bishop, right before John Elway orchestrated The Drive. 'Nuff said.
by ncm42 on Dec 21, 2009 12:27 PM MST up reply actions 1 recs
+1
absolutely, we need to try something different in short yardage.
Opinions are like......, Well anyway, this is mine.
by Sean in Pa. on Dec 21, 2009 1:21 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Anyone who discounts Hillis' performance in KC
is in denial. He absolutley foguht for most of that yardage, against NFL players.
We will now discuss in a little more detail the Struggle for Existence.
Charles Darwin. (The Origin Of Species)
by bradley on Dec 21, 2009 1:27 PM MST up reply actions 1 recs
New words....
well my two year old learned some new ones on Sunday. Are you happy Josh? Now my son thinks there are “footballs” and “#$^%@ing footballs”.
And yes a 220lb running back can obviously run through a paper bag but according to daddy he can’t run through a “#^#&^ing paper bag”.
Of course they would never hire a visually challenged person to officiate the game, Daddy was being silly when he said that the referee must be “&&%ing blind if he though that was ^&((&@#ing pass interference!!!!”
But yes son, the Raiders are crap and I do hate them. Daddy did mean that no matter what your mother said.
by DickVMI on Dec 21, 2009 9:39 AM MST reply actions 1 recs
luckily my wife and daughter were out of the house… until the last minute… and then luckily they were upstairs because my tone was similar
by Todd Jewell on Dec 21, 2009 9:56 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs
ROTFLMFAO
Opinions are like......, Well anyway, this is mine.
by Sean in Pa. on Dec 21, 2009 1:22 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
New actions...
My sons got to witness a new phenomenon Sunday: the was an immediate – and appropriate increase in the consumption of Miller Lite with every Raider running play and Broncos red zone failure.
But, the good news, they didn’t learn any new words…
"Nothing in this world can take the place of persistence. Talent will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful people with talent. Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb. Education will not; the world is full of educated derelicts. Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent. The slogan "press on" has solved and always will solve the problems of the human race" Calvin Coolidge
by SSMT on Dec 21, 2009 9:49 AM MST reply actions 0 recs
I'm casting my two cents.......
with those who feel there’s too much playing ‘not to lose’. I’ve always viewed my favorite teams from the old ,’it’s not whether you win or lose, it’s how you play the game’ perspective . YES, I like to see them win as much as the next guy. BUT, I can come away from a lost game, played well, with the satisfaction they played well, gave it their best shot. For the most part, I have not had that feeling with the ‘Broncos’ for the past couple of years.
And, speaking for myself. I find this ‘rebuilding explanation’ for any team, any sport. A cop out, and taken for a license to play poorly (or lose)….try the old ., ‘Hey boss, I’m new here, sorry I ain’t worth a ‘chit’…….see if that’ll get you to next year.
I still see merit to the ’It’s not whether………."’ philosophy. I only wish the Broncos would let me practice it……
by rockymtnfan on Dec 21, 2009 10:33 AM MST reply actions 0 recs
Yes, yes, -it is all very depressing but
on the bright side: Cutler’s quarterback rating was in the single digits. That DID put a smile on my face in spite of everything :o)
by warmick on Dec 21, 2009 10:35 AM MST reply actions 0 recs
same here haha
Bleeding Orange & Blue in The Netherlands
by BroncosNL on Dec 21, 2009 10:55 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs
He's trying to get the entire staff fired
"But it doesn't matter what I do, what I choose. I'm what's wrong. This is fate" - final words of Dexter season 4...I mean Lovie season 6.
by propheteer on Dec 21, 2009 11:19 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Part of a master plan?
To get Shanny and Bates? Is he really an evil genius?
- Nick
"We got 'em right where we want 'em!" - Keith Bishop, right before John Elway orchestrated The Drive. 'Nuff said.
by ncm42 on Dec 21, 2009 12:29 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
One can only hope
It’s certainly my theory anyways. Just as long as the McCaskeys don’t give him control over the defense. ;)
"But it doesn't matter what I do, what I choose. I'm what's wrong. This is fate" - final words of Dexter season 4...I mean Lovie season 6.
by propheteer on Dec 21, 2009 1:40 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
You are a wise individual...
- Nick
"We got 'em right where we want 'em!" - Keith Bishop, right before John Elway orchestrated The Drive. 'Nuff said.
by ncm42 on Dec 21, 2009 1:58 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Thank you sir
I just call ’em like I see ’em.
"But it doesn't matter what I do, what I choose. I'm what's wrong. This is fate" - final words of Dexter season 4...I mean Lovie season 6.
by propheteer on Dec 21, 2009 8:21 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
He's sure got a heck of an arm, though
One of the funniest (and most asinine) comments I read yesterday was a Bear fan saying that you can’t blame Cutler for the mistakes because it’s last year’s offense which was built around Orton’s limited abilities.
Like apparently throwing the ball to Bears … instead of opposing players.
"Nothing in this world can take the place of persistence. Talent will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful people with talent. Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb. Education will not; the world is full of educated derelicts. Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent. The slogan "press on" has solved and always will solve the problems of the human race" Calvin Coolidge
by SSMT on Dec 21, 2009 11:00 AM MST reply actions 0 recs
Sure is asinine
You won’t catch me saying anything remotely close to that. The Bears season has been a perfect storm of crappiness, and Jay is the captain of the boat.
"But it doesn't matter what I do, what I choose. I'm what's wrong. This is fate" - final words of Dexter season 4...I mean Lovie season 6.
by propheteer on Dec 21, 2009 11:21 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Love your liberal use of the strike key
I was at the game yesterday, and it was eerily similar to the Bills game I attended last season. You can say a lot about how they lost, but Broncos settling for FGs kept the Raiders in the game and ultimately doomed them in the end.
"But it doesn't matter what I do, what I choose. I'm what's wrong. This is fate" - final words of Dexter season 4...I mean Lovie season 6.
by propheteer on Dec 21, 2009 11:25 AM MST reply actions 0 recs
Well, those were changes I made late this morning after reading Sean’s comments. My original writing was perhaps a bit too emotional…
But I’ve got to ask…have you been to any other games over the past two seasons, or are you bringing us a mountain of bad luck? ;-)
formerly known around these parts as nycbroncosfan
by Douglas A. Lee on Dec 21, 2009 11:52 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Nope
Those were the only two Bronco games I’ve ever attended. Well, if you don’t count preseason games, cause I went to the Bears/Broncos game this past August. That’s a big 0-3 for me. :)
"But it doesn't matter what I do, what I choose. I'm what's wrong. This is fate" - final words of Dexter season 4...I mean Lovie season 6.
by propheteer on Dec 21, 2009 12:08 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
OUCH
We’re hosting the Rams next year, so perhaps you should get yourself to that game so you can get off the schneid…
Haha jk of course.
formerly known around these parts as nycbroncosfan
by Douglas A. Lee on Dec 21, 2009 12:12 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah really
I was lucky to go back home and watch an uninspired win vs. the Rams at Soldiers earlier this month. My girlfriend (Bronco fan) is starting to wonder what kind of “luck” I’m bringing to the games.
"But it doesn't matter what I do, what I choose. I'm what's wrong. This is fate" - final words of Dexter season 4...I mean Lovie season 6.
by propheteer on Dec 21, 2009 12:55 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
You are so right
Can’t stop the run. Can’t win. From peewee ball, through high school and college, right up to the pros. It is so simple and so true. The first line of your post is pure money.
by The Wad on Dec 21, 2009 8:46 PM MST reply actions 0 recs

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